How come nobody mentions that Gen 4 introduced just as many baby Pokemon as Gen 2 did? There being eight of them in Johto is frequently used as a criticism for GSC, but that gets disregarded for Sinnoh?
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How come nobody mentions that Gen 4 introduced just as many baby Pokemon as Gen 2 did?
because Gen 4 also has too many crossgen evos, so the two categories both get lumped into the same "crossgen" umbrella
it also has too many legendaries, gen 4 was a seriously awful fricking dex
Because the babymons are for actual good pokemon minus Chimecho instead of being for shitmons no one cares about
>Mr.Mime
>Sudowoodo
>Chimecho
>Roselia
Half of these were shit, but nice cope. Elekid, Magby, Smoochum, and Tyrogue all evolved into good-decent Pokemon, with one of them being used as a method of directly connecting three similar Pokemon.
Because Johto was the scapegoat chosen by Galartards to make Swooshit look goods. If Game Freak starts shilllokg Johto then they’ll start acknowledging Sinnoh’s flaws
Also Mantine is so late that remoraid is on the same route. So you only have it for one level. At that point just have Mantine be catchable.
Also Munchlax (despite being one of the few good babies) is ruined by how honey trees were implemented.
I don't get why there are not more baby Pokémon. They're so marketable. If they made baby Lapras, it'd be a hit no matter what.
Thinking about it, they'd get the most out of babies of previous gens. No one remembers Riolu or Toxel are babies because they are from same gen as evos. And just going "this is cute, let's make a cuter baby" doesn't work (aka Phione). Pick good candidates who are popular and have room, add baby, profit.
I don't even them dislike most of the babies (cutemons are often some of my favorites), but I find it strange how frequently the 'prevalence' of them is used a critique for Gen 2 while for Gen 4 it's just people mentioning HMs and the game speed for the umpteenth time
again, the babies get lumped in with the new evos
That'd be fine if the new evolutions in GSC weren't separated when discussing crossgen evos for that gen.
> I don't get why there are not more baby Pokémon
I want to say that the Gen2 baby Pokémon were so hated that Game Freak stopped and regrets baby Pokémon and Gen 2 as a whole because of it (game Freak did say that peope called Gen2 babyish). but that doesn’t explain why the continued making them in Gen4.
I’d I had to guess it’s because they use competitive to shill Pokémon now, so Pokémon the idea of weaker versions of earlier Pokémon makes no sense.
>Pick good candidates who are popular and have room, add baby, profit.
That would have been the best way to do it. Problem is Game Freak didn’t seems to care about that when making the baby pokemkn in the first game places they just seems to be drawing random blobs then retroactively adding them to whatever Pokémon families they look likes. That’s why we don’t get sensible babies for Miltank/Tauros or Lapras but got babies for Pokémon that were already babyish like clefairy and Jigglypuff
>I’d I had to guess it’s because they use competitive to shill Pokémon now, so Pokémon the idea of weaker versions of earlier Pokémon makes no sense
Strong new Pokemon were always a huge selling point, independently from competitive play.
Breeding is kind of an outdated mechanic, most competitive players use wild caught or transferred Pokemon and in story mode there's just no point in doing it. Breeding also doesn't work for many regional variants, for example a Paldean Tauros egg will hatch into a regular Tauros. Egg moves have also been drastically reduced.
I wouldn't be surprised if the mechanic itself was removed in future itinerations as secondary methods for getting proper IVs and shinies become easier and better.
> for example a Paldean Tauros egg will hatch into a regular Tauros.
Awful example, you need to go out of your way(Kitakami) for the egg to be regular Tauros.
Toxel has always utterly baffled me.
What part of punk rock lizard required it's pre-evolution be a literal diaper wearing baby after 3 gens of Babies not being a thing at all.
The only issue with babies is that they are barely used how they should be used, giving you access to certain mons earlier like how Budew does.
>The only issue with babies is that they are barely used how they should be used
Agreed, though the Odd Egg in Crystal is usually something that'll be good even if the IVs are fricked
The odd egg was the only thing missing from hgss, man I wish they would do something like that again getting a random mon is fun.
the reason people are fine with gen 4's babymons is that, for the most part, they do this.
mantyke fumbles it by being too late, and Munchlax needs no elaboration, but the others are used properly. and the mons given babies in gen 4 are ones that could use a preevo, unlike igglybuff or cleffa.
Gen 4 used babymons to give access to certain evolutionary lines early.
In gen 2 they were dex filler in the most literal sense of the word, with most not being available in the wild.
There is a reason no one complains about Riolu or Togepi.
>Gen 4 used babymons to give access to certain evolutionary lines early.
>Bonsly
By that point in Johto you'd have access to Sudowoodo
>Mime Jr.
Only gotten from an npc trade in RGBY, so sure
>Chingling
Fair enough, even if Chimecho is a garbage reward
>Happiny
Accessible at about the same time in which Chansey would be available in RGBY, but by the time you're done evolving it you would've had Chansey significantly earlier.
>Budew
Fair, even if Roselia would've been available by the time it evolved in RSE
>Mantyke
Wrong. It's accessible right before Victory Road whereas in GSC its evolution was available before the 5th badge.
>Munchlax
Yeah, hypothetically...
And don’t forget that one anon pointed out that the game lies to you about how to evolve Happiny by making you think you use the oval stone like a normal evo stone
>you would've had Chansey significantly earlier.
homie nobody had a Chansey lmao
>Accessible at about the same time in which Chansey would be available in RGBY
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Chansey exclusive to the Safari Zone and insanely rare until the post-game?
>Fair, even if Roselia would've been available by the time it evolved in RSE
Well, that's the thing: you get Budew early, then it evolves. I'm playing Platinun right now and you can get Budew about an hour into the game, so you can get it and train it (i.e. give it EV's) long before Roselia could reasonably be made available.
You can also grind it for a quick evo if you really want, since it evolves by happiness.
Budew is the template for what all cross-gen babies should be like tbh.
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Chansey exclusive to the Safari Zone and insanely rare until the post-game?
Yes but safari zone tickets are cheap and you can get a Chansey very early if you try hard enough.
You can also get Munchlax before the second gym but nobody does.
I don't think having to catch a rare Pokemon that can flee is comparable to having to grind honey trees that only work once every five hours and become fruitless if you wait too long.
Both are ridiculously rare and hard to get for the express purpose of encouraging trading.
You can keep looking for Chansey until you find one. It's rare and hard to catch but not that different from getting any other mon.
For Munchlax you have to wait an entire evening just to reroll, and you will never know if the tree you selected can actually attract it or not.
They're not comparable in the slightest.
What makes them comparable is that no one bothers.
Noone bothers with Munchlax because it's not only too obscure and hard to get for a child with no computer and internet, but it's too much for an adult in the modern day too.
Chansey is really not that bad, I had one, as well as Kangaskhan and Tauros.
Safari zone Dragonair was a lot rarer.
six hours, and only on four specific trees related to your IDs with no real way of knowing without extensive digging and outside knowledge with a 1% chance to encounter
nothing will ever be as bad as Munchlax
I think just having access to Bonsly, Mime Jr, Chingling, Budew, and Mantyke outside of gifts and breeding drastically reduced the potential hate, regardless of when they were available. Happiny being a very easily accessed gift also helped it avoid hate. Munchlax also just felt like a fitting addition for Snorlax's existence in the same way Magby, Smoochum, and Elekid fit with Pokemon that seemed too adult to just hatch from an egg.
It's too bad these designs have been mostly thrown in the trash these days. Miltank and Tauros should've gotten a shared one, and Kangaskhan will always be bizarre.
The only baby Pokemon there that feels utterly pointless is Chingling. Cleffa, Igglybuff, and Pichu have no reason to exist. That definitely means the hate for baby Pokemon is way overblown in general, but they still have objectively more pointless additions in Gen 2.
Also, how often do the baby Pokemon appear in Gen 2? It feels like Gen 4 made more of an effort to feature them on opponent teams. but I can't say for sure. Some were also catchable in the wild, so they felt more like normal Pokemon to add to your team.
>The only baby Pokemon there that feels utterly pointless is Chingling
Would finding Roselia, Sudowoodo or Mr.Mime in early routes break the game?
I don't really mean it as a means of game balance, although that could be a factor. I mostly mean design wise. Chimeco is already a small, cute design. It had no need for a preceding form.
I also want to make it clear that I don't think every moderately sized single-stage Pokemon should have a baby form added. It's just not that objectionable if that ever were to happen.
Because gen 4 has actual real issues, so the nitpicks take a back seat
Bonsly and Munchlax are Gen 3 Pokemon.
All of them can be caught in the wild or are given as gifts, you don't have to hunt down rare Pokémon (that are almost all unavailable until the postgame) to breed and can use them or get their dex entry while you're playing through the game normally, unlike in Johto.