How did Nomura put Kingdom Hearts bullshit inside FFXVI? Is he an omni-presence following our every move?
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How did Nomura put Kingdom Hearts bullshit inside FFXVI? Is he an omni-presence following our every move?
i will now buy your game
I can't think of the last FF that didn't have some last minute shenanigans either in the story itself or just how it's presented. You've got Noctis having DBZ fights in the sky with Ardyn, Lightning coming to the real world or some shit, Tidus fighting his ghost dad and then a weird little bug that controls a whale, Zidane and the crew fighting the embodiment of the end in a complete last minute pull, whatever the frick FF8 was on about, and even FF7 had old gods and shit mucking up the story, with the Remake throwing in timeline ghosts.
I love Final Fantasy, but they've always had a habit of going off the rails a bit as they go on. There's a reason it's joked about how in a lot of JRPGs you go from killing a few rats to fighting literal god. I'm really not sure what people online were expecting with FF16 considering the track record.
In FF12, the only off-the-rails part of the Vayne fight is him fusing with his airship to turn into a cyborg dragon.
Didn't play FF12, hence why I didn't take a stab at it. Though that certainly sounds a bit goofy.
But yeah, FF always does weird shit out of nowhere. I feel like the writers rarely know how to properly escalate a threat in a story without jumping straight to you fighting god or something.
that's why shadowbringers is so beloved, the escalated of the main antagonist to a "boss" is justified
Yeah, it's one of the few times where the escalation made perfect sense and they gave the "villain" plenty of screen time to understand before the inevitable conflict.
God knows it takes a while to get there though. The payoff is great, but a lot of the experience comes from being firmly acquainted with the hundreds of hours of MSQ content that came before and set up the narrative. Good shit if you stick with it, but man do you have to stick with it.
Not really. I skipped everything from ARR through the actual end of Stormblood. Shadowbringers is the only expansion that you could rip out, slap into its own game, and it would completely fine with minimal if any setup.
Are you a christcuck or something? Fighting g*d is kino.
There's a perfectly plausible explanation for that, he has Venat's godlike powers in a mortal body so he reinforces himself with all the metal that's around him.
I don't get it. Why did the party want to stop Venat again? She seems to be on human side so why even fighting her?
Because Venat agreed with Vayne's war of conquest.
>Tidus fighting his ghost dad and then a weird little bug that controls a whale
I don't know this is off the rails. Dad was implied to be Sin since the scene where Tidus and Auron get teleported to Spira. The Yu Yevon bug being true big bad is really just a formality/mechanism to make dad an evil kaiju monster. The fact that Sin is basically the final summon but corrupted and shit is also pretty foreshadowed. None of it comes completely out of left field.
Like I said, it's either the story or the presentation, in which I'd say it's the presentation in FFX. Fighting a bug that is a representation of the powers that Sin exists as, to which Sin/your father's form is a whale, and you fight all of this in a dreamed up, dead cityscape inside said whale...
It's just a lot. Especially when the buttrock from the start plays for the fight against your dad. Did I love every second of it? Absolutely. And yeah, there's a decent amount of build up to what occurs. But it certainly is pretty outside of the norm, to the point a lot of normal people may be wondering what in the frick is happening by the end of FFX in terms of what they're seeing.
Regardless, maybe FFX is a bad example. FF is definitely a series though that is guilty of ramping things up from mundane to absurd extremes, hence why I find it strange anyone would expect FF16 would stay tame throughout.
How is the end of FFX last minute? Every single thing you need to know about how the world works is stablished pretty early. Summons, Yevon, unsended, the fact that Jetch is Sin. Honestly the way it ends and how you get there is pretty logical. Just because is high fantasy doesn't mean is nonsense.
Like I said:
I more meant that, in FFX's situation, what you're doing from the outside if absurd. It makes sense after hours and hours of being immersed in it, but it's certainly an escalation compared to wandering the jungles of Besaid. I'm not criticizing it, mainly just using it as an example of how FF often escalates to such a degree where it either could be seen as absurd, or actually just is due to iffy writing choices. FFX would be the former in this case.
>You've got Noctis having DBZ fights in the sky with Ardyn
No shenanigans, that's just the Lucis Caelum magic at full power. We see most of it long before the end, during the normal game.
>Lightning coming to the real world or some shit
Granted, but it only happens in the third XIII game.
>Tidus fighting his ghost dad and then a weird little bug that controls a whale
We're told that Sin is Jecht like midway through the game. This is just how the Final Aeon works and it's established rather early.
>Zidane and the crew fighting the embodiment of the end in a complete last minute pull
True.
>whatever the frick FF8 was on about
Witches and time travel, anon. Both of which are introduced early in the game.
>even FF7 had old gods and shit mucking up the story
What gods? There are no deities in VII except the Lifestream/Minerva.
>Kingdom Hearts Nonsense
It's always been Final Fantasy nonsense. It's just that the nonsense is easier to spot in KH because of the Disney characters if you don't play either series.
All I know about kingdom hearts are the cutscenes on YouTube and they frickin kill me are they worth playing?
Yes, if you're willing to actually engage with the story it's quite good, and the gameplay ranges from ok to good throughout the series. 2 and 3 have the best gameplay easily
Should I start with 1 then? Is the PS4 version OK or is it all fricked up as remasters tend to go?
no the ps4 collection/remasters are pretty great and the ideal way to go.
KH1 is straight forward enough that I think anyone that can find some humor in it will look past the cringe story and enjoy the gameplay, and if you grew up on these disney movies its easy to enjoy. If the card gameplay in ReChain of Memories sours you, skip it and read the wiki or watch youtube scenes. The main character forgets it all anyway, but make sure you at least play KH1 and KH2 before you make up your mind about the series
Yeah. KH2 is like one of the greatest action games ever made and the rest of the console games are mediocre at worst
NTA, but they're decent enough action games. Story is charming if you can look past how weird the Disney/FF mix is, that and just take much of the story at face value rather than try to tie everything together cleanly. It's got great worlds to explore, genuinely tough super bosses, genuinely fantastic music, and, if you are a fan of Disney stuff, it can be pretty fun to be plopped in those worlds.
Like, as dumb as the story and characters can be, wandering through the Alice in Wonderland world, beating up card soldiers, switching between the items that make you grow/shrink to find secrets, and fighting a boss at the end that looks like some creepy jester made of paper is a blast.
kingdom hearts 1 is pretty meh. I played it back on PS2 and was unimpressed. It's okay but not great. I skipped the rest of the series until recently when I decided to give KH2 a try and I gotta say, KH2 was a vast improvement on the first. I'd dare say it's probably the best action RPG on PS2. kinda regret passing the game over for all those years.
I'd say KH1 is pretty good. I agree it's not great, but it definitely itches an exploration scratch that KH2 misses.
KH2 and KH3 superboss fights are some of the best action bosses in gaming
I'd argue only 1 & 2 are worth a playthrough. Both games can just be button mashed through but on higher difficulties you'll actually find that their combat is really competent, particularly the second game.
3 is fun for a casual playthrough but if you liked the other games for how sharp/responsive the combat is you probably wont like it.
BBS is a better rpg than 2
>muh gameplay
Only autists care
Yes. Get the collection and play in order. They turned the DS games into movies instead of remastering them.
I think BbS might have been the only one they actually made a final mix version specifically for the collection.
Unrelated but I don't I'll ever get a chance to properly talked about it, I think it was nice that the 1.5 collection was KH1, CoM, and days, so it perfectly lead into 2. How come they didn't do that with 2.5? Why not be 2, DDD, and some other game that furthered Sora's story? Why the three most loosely connected games?
The story is kinda crazy. It's bad and good at the same time, at least until DDD where it becomes mostly bad.
The games are fun as frick though and are worth playing for that reason alone.
Play KH1, CoM, and KH2. Watch the movie for Days before playing 2.
If you really really want more after 2, play BbS, but THAT'S IT. Stop right there!! Never look back.
I played the rest and they were fun.
KH3 is the third best game in the series
They are super soulful
Yes, they're very fun. They have solid combat on higher difficulties but can also be played as button mashers if you just want to have a fun romp through Disney Worlds. It's like Final Fantasy in Disneyland.
As dumb as the story gets, it never makes the mistake of FF16 of trying to be mature and serious before going full JRPG moron, it is aware of how cheesy it is at all times.
>As dumb as the story gets, it never makes the mistake of FF16 of trying to be mature and serious before going full JRPG moron, it is aware of how cheesy it is at all times.
Yeah, I think that's generally the charm of products Nomura and Nojima are tied to.
SoP has the same self awareness of knowing exactly what it is like KH does and still playing the moments it needs to be serious as serious.
>As dumb as the story gets, it never makes the mistake of FF16 of trying to be mature and serious before going full JRPG moron
To think Nomura wanted this in Versus XIII
You know what, when you put it that way, XVI really does feel like Versus.
>Twitter screenshot thread
Why do you white boys keep doing this?
>Level 1 kill goblins
>Level 100 kill god
Many such final fantasies
who is Richard Hog and why should I care about what he thinks?
"Kingdom Hearts bullshit" is just Final Fantasy bullshit. Always has been
People call any plot with magic "kingdom hearts nonsense" Most likely he got to the ultima stuff and now is "kingdom hearts" because is not about politics anymore. Its like saying that FFT is "kingdom hearts" after the lucavi are introduced.
I don't remember incest and eating alien vegana in Kingdom Hearts
get off the weed anon
every troony calling bizarre shit in a story ''kingdom hearts'' is fricking annoying
the real final fantasy was making friends along the way (until you kill god with the power of friendship)
I'm convinced he didn't play the game and just read the leaks because it very much doesn't "just disappear" and is referenced as late as one of the final cutscenes. Jote outright says that the Blight hasn't stopped because of Origin.
He's talking about the political themes. Journos have timely accessories they can use to just skip the combat though though it'd still be difficult to sit through the game.
But the political themes were never left unresolved, either. The only "political" themes boil down to many of the highest powers knowing that the mothercrystals are causing the Blight, Cid resolves to take them down because of it, and consolidates the power to do so in Jill and Clive.
If you are talking about the Bearer slavery, that too has sidequests spanning up until the very last fight, but isn't really resolved until Clive takes magic out of the world. Would it have been more interesting to have a less fantastical resolution to that conflict? Maybe. But "Cid" was going around and ruining people's lives for the goal of making the Bearers the only source of magic. There's no guarantee that plan would've ever worked in their favor, and Cid was more than right when he said it would take generations for their plight to actually get solved.
I'm pretty sure all the themes relating to ultima involving free will etc can be related to the bearer issue in some form. I just need to sit down and think about it.
Does anyone have any ideas?
It's a pretty simple Ultima = God = suffering and lack of free will. The crystals, and the magic, had governed the entirety of Valisthea for thousands of years
>the legacy of the crystals has shaped our history for long enough
And as Clive says in the final fight, it's all about creating a world where people, regular men, can live on their own terms, not as puppets in a play or slaves to a power unknown to them, but just as men. The "creation" myth of the Founder also ties into this, with him building his life with his own two hands, without the intervention of magic.
i thought the story was meh but he's an idiot
the politishit is still there in the end of game sidequests but this homosexual sucks at games and probably skipped them
if you just power through Ash and Ultima it definitely sucks shit and would feel like multiple hour long Necron shitpost, although I think the bait and switch from "muh climate change" to "Communism is actually moronic" Barnabas was an intentional move to own homosexual journalists, unfortunately everything about Ultima just ruins it because its moronic
FF fans really do think too highly of their stories
Why?
Other way around. Kingdom Hearts has good stories, but secondaries are filtered by the disney characters and refuse to immerse themselves.
Other way around for me.
I like all the Disney and Final Fantasy character interactions. It's the OC Kingdom Hearts characters themselves I can't stand.
fake fan begone
>playing a game for the story
It actually pisses me off that there’s Kingdon hearts fans gaslighting people into thinking the average final fantasy games are suppose to be and has always been these messes of convoluted plot pileups and storytelling that treats you like an idiot while thinking it’s spilling deep shit when it’s not, just like their own games which jumped the shark since the spin-offs between KH 1 and 2
>FF1: Go back to the past to kill chaos and fulfill the timeloop
>FF7: Cloud isnt a real Soldier and gets lost in the lifestream
>FF8: Ultimecia Time compression
>FF9: Everything Necron related
>FF10: Sin being jecht, tidus travelling 1000 years into the future but actually not
>Y-YOURE JUST GASLIGHTING MEEEE
Get fricked gay lol, filtered by Disney characters like a little b***h
All better done to varying degrees than kingdom hearts even if I think FFX’s plot blows chunks.
It has always been that way you STUPID frick FFix takes a massive derailing after disk 2 and memoria itself is just schizo kh shit
kh is overrated ff16 is underrated
Final Fantasy fans discovering Final Fantasy bullshit for the first time, after years of watching the franchise from a distance and being told it's cooler than Kingdom Hearts that's cringe baby kid bs.
morons blame Nomura and "kingdom hearts" for any esoteric storytelling in a square game, ignorant of the fact its been there since the start of FF as a series. Watch them call the Cloud Lifestream Segment "nomura KH bullshit" in the Remake despite the fact it was in the OG FF7
yeah kingdom hearts nonsense and final fantasy nonsense are different. KH nonsense is "this guy is actually a different version of this guy who also looks like this guy because they shared their souls" But "this medieval setting is secretly being manipulated by an alien that wants to wipe out humanity" is pure FF. Ultima is basically just Zemus and Barnabas is like a worse Golbez who isn't even being mind controlled.
>this guy is actually a different version of this guy who also looks like this guy because they shared their souls
That's basically the Ifrit fight where three different versions of Clive interact lol
Yeah but in KH they're not imaginary. It leads to hilarious shit like the end of KH3 where you have two characters who look exactly alike but have never met.
It's funny since half the shit that happens in KH could've happened in like FF8 and people would've just accepted it but it's whacky moronic bullshit becase Donald and Goofy are also there.
nobody actually likes 8's story except for waifugays and contrarians
Nojima has never been a good writer and never will be a good writer.
I was just using it as an example.
You could take the Sora/Roxas shit, put it in FF7 and there's your schizophrenic super soldier plotline
Even if that's the case the sheer density isn't really the same. There's something to be said for double standards in terms of storytelling, but from one KH player to another, you can't really justify the amount of shittery in the post-1 games.
BBS, 358/2 days and KH2 all had better stories than KH1
the issue with those is that they are all post-1, lol. it being a series and having every. single. game. be relevant is it's biggest downfall.
>it being a series and having every. single. game. be relevant is it's biggest downfall.
You can start with most games having no knowledge of the others. Some people's first game was Days and they were fine with what was going on since most of the mechanics get reintroduced to newbies. Most people hadn't even played CoM back when KH2 came out and it wasn't an issue to them. Soft reboots are a cancer as well. Not everything needs to be homoginized for a general audience.
Oh don't get me wrong, if they put most of the stuff that happened in KH in a FF game, it would be the most divisive FF game of all time, but it wouldn't be out of place either.
>nobody actually likes 8's story
FF9 Black person detected
I didn't like 9 either homosexual, fight me.
>didn't like 8
>didn't like 9
Oh, so you have shit taste.
No I just don't like games that have mediocre or nonsensical stories.
whats this ff bs talk about ff16? the story was not complicated at all unlike kh where its a massive fricking schizo spiderweb
> This rpg game doesn't need buffs, debuffs, interesting gear, skills, atb, shields, mana, stamina, breakable parts, linked attacks, elemental interactions...
Dragon Quest didn't have any of that stuff and it turned out okay
Dragon Quest has most of those things
Explain how Dragon Quest lacks buffs, debuffs, mana, and shields
Nomura had a hand in FFXVI even though he's deep into the FF7 remake series? I will now buy a Snoystation 5 to play this mediocre single player FF game now. Thank you Nomura!
>people still blame Nomura for the bullshit
It has always been Kitase, you fricking idiots.
I just finished XVI. This is the first thread about it I saw so I'll post this here.
I've beaten every mainline Final Fantasy game and this one is my favorite.
What the frick am I looking at?
The only reason Final Fantasy bullshit is attributed as Kingdom Hearts bullshit and Nomura bullshit, is because the two things Nomura works on. The compendium of FF7 and Kingdom Hearts actually have a continuous story, unlike other FF games that hardly ever get sequels to continue their FF bullshit.
And the two FF games that did consistently add more content that created more FF bullshit? 13 trilogy and the expanded 15 universe.
And what would you know? They're also shit do to stacking on too much Final Fantasy bullshit.
Lightning Returns is the most egregious "Kingdom Hearts bullshit" to ever come out of Square Enix and that's not even delving into the MMO shit.
Welcome to final fantasy, the first game barely has a narrative till the end when it throws paragraphs at you explaining Jack Garland's 100000 IQ plan to become a God.
Damn thats twice this day I've heard this copium. I thought you homosexuals said this game was going to save final fantasy? Damn your narrative for this game has changed quick
Japanese are garbage and most of the time the anime influence makes the stories edgy or cliche as frick so its pretty common to see dog shit writing like Nomuras in any kind of Japanese media
What the frick is he talking about?
This is not final fantasy anymore
>Inb4 but it has ifrit!
No, FF has lost its touch since 13
Japs are great at setting things up but dogshit at bringing the ideas home and ending them in satisfactory ways.
>heh actually it was my plan all along for you to kill all of those hard bosses so that you would get stronger
>no, i had no back up in the very possible scenario that you actually died at some point
this may just be my least favorite video game trope. absolute dogshit writing
pretty sure he'd just wait for Mythos to be born again, if Clive can't kill the bosses he's not strong enough to be the vessel, obviously.
no final fantasy is NOT always takin risks
i want my old FF back
Which one? Define old FF.
pre 13
why do new final fantasy devs love ifrit so much?
wasn't he like a strong being in ff15 too
like the start of the gameis them fighting ifrit
low level summon in all the games that came before
I don't know about 15, but in 16 the devs said they felt bad that ifrit was always the shitter summon, and they wanted to give him the spotlight for once
Ifrit has been given his own moment in V, VIII, XV and now XVI, he's never been considered the shitter summon, just a starter one.
in viii he is litteraly the first one and gets outclassed midway through the game
He's not, you get Questzcotl and Shiva first and then go to a dedicated dungeon to get him and he even has custom dialogue if you use Shiva against him.
He is litteraly the tutorial
He literally isn't since the tutorial is Quistis telling you how to use GFs. He is literally the first boss though in a fire cavern with a timer that everyone remembers, making it, a memorable moment.
why are you defending ff8 it has lots of flaws......
Bring back my boy quetzacotl
Really?
OWARI DA
All summons but Bahamut and Odin are irrelevant
Final Fantasy if he Gurren Lagann
Really?
ZE TIME KOMPRESSION
I'M SL SICK AND TIRED OF THESE CUTSCENES
Then skip em
These FF action rpgs need to be more Kingdom Hearts, its weird how instead of doing half assed attempt of an action game they don't just get what works great in Kingdom Hearts and try to apply into those final fantasy games they are making, as of now Kingdom Hearts numbered entries stomps all over any attemp square made to put action into Final Fantasy, heck The World ends with you and its sequel do way better jobs than too.
Stranger of Paradise is on the same level of action/rpg mix as any KH game to be fair
I excluded it mostly because it wasn't entirely a main a main line Final fantasy and Team ninja is the one that deserves merit from it, it feels like square refuses to learn from its other games when it comes to mainline Final Fantasy games, if H.a.n.d(Neo TWEWY and KH Recoded) worked in a FF game I can assure it would be way better than any other FF action game they ever attempt to create.
In any case Yoshida is still better than Hackmura. This is proved by SE picking him as the top dog for FF main series TWICE.
Yeah and they pick Nomura for the FF7 projects, which sell more.
Wasn't he already got demoted from his position on Rebirth? KWAB
Nope. He is still the creative producer
I only love XVI so much because at the end of the day it really is Final Fantasy after all.
i cried at the end
me2
I teared up at the bit where he convinces his uncle it's actually him, too
Clive lived
This is Nomura's world, were all just living in it.
Kingdom Hearts Chad's live in their heads rent free. Here's to another 20+ years of endless seething.
I just want Nomura to join CBU3 at this point.
>Nomura joins CBU3
Let me guess, KH meets Ivalice part 2? Versus reboot?
COPE
Tetsuya Nomura is the Hajime Isayama of gaming
Kingdom Hearts as a whole is a better story than Persona 5
It's hard to find a story that isn't worse than P5's to be fair here.
You can feel the KH just from the combat alone
square enix is a shit company with lobotomized fanbase