Thread title. Like, there's probably some blindingly obvious answer, but I can't understand how they even manage it.
Every book seems to depict the process of creating a Space Marine as incredibly complicated, requiring multiple artificial organs, geneseed, a series of progressive surgeries (and time for the host to recover).
But meanwhile CSM seem to be daemonically corrupted ravagers who fly around from fight to fight. Where do they get all the time and resources to do all these complex surgical procedures?
I feel like Nurglite, Khornate and Slaaneshi doctors all can't be trusted to do the implantation process right. More, a guy going through the surgeries will take years to 'mature' - Where's he even going to be trained in the meantime?
But we see thousands of Chaos Space Marine mown down en masse, and there's no shortage of them. Where are they all coming from?
daemonculaba
>daemonculaba
It was destroyed and the plans burned.
Except CSM are in the warp, they can time travel and regularly do, the daemonculaba exist forever.
Like how it's canon that space wolves in the horus heresy fought thousand sons from 40k as they reinforced their ancient selves from the future, and how ahriman consulted one of his battle brothers on his rubric plan at a point in time thousands of years after he had successfully failed that very plan when that brother was a full on daemonic prophet, then afterward consulted that same prophet from before he pursued his plan in the first place, and none of this time travel was intentional, when the chaos gods want their forces to reinforce they will arrange for the warp to bring them to the place and time of the daemonculaba production.
Also they were designed by Fabulous Bill, so he's probably got updated versions in a tank somewhere next time he needs a big favour or quick funds.
A bunch of moronic secondaries are going to post about daemonculaba despite the fact that they were all destroyed along with their creators in the same novel that introduced them
Also they were Iron Warriors only
Even then it wasn't very efficient.
>daemonculaba
I never quite understood why they couldn't just do the normal method, if they already had the geneseeds.
Like, I get that they needed to make it extra horrible, but c'mon.
it seemed to be quicker, standard process takes like 20 years start to finish, the Uriel "clone", so to speak was up and running and able to compete with veteran marines like what, a year or two after he was hatched? granted i know that the passage of time is wonky and very vague in 40k, but there didn't seem to be much time between that book and the next one Honsou and his crew show up in to fight Ventris
on the other hand, there were also a crazy amount of rejects. it's been years since i read the book, but i vaguely remember something about how the Unfleshed that Ventris found were only the ones big and strong enough (or 'lucky' enough) to survive getting flushed out of the fortress and into the wilderness, with most of them dying from the process, predation, or exposure to the planet in general. honestly, that just seemed to be even less efficient. if i were the Iron Warrior in charge of the whole project (was it originally Honsou or did he inherit it when he took over his warband?), I would have had the runoff go into a cell or enclosed pit to recycle the rejects into something useful, or torture them, bolt weapons and armor onto them, and use them as fodder or line breakers considering how big and strong some of them got
>standard process takes like 20 years
No. It starts between 10 and 14, and ends between 16 and 18. And has since WD 98. That makes 8 years at most, and probably more like 4 or 5.
>literally any other chaos lord copies Honsou's idea
>daemonculaba becomes common practice throughout most warbands
Sorry but my headcanon supercedes GW slop because I am a free thinking individual
He doesn't realize the eye and chaos as a whole is a Hyperbolic Time Chamber.
what you've seen is not lore accurate. a single csm is the result of an extreme evolutionary bottle neck. he is 100x the Marine of the imperium. his achilles heel is his aged equipment and lack of organization.
the csms are small in number, but are the deadliest warriors in any fight. games/novels/books SHOULD show a single csm sniping 3 miles away with his side arm, chainswording primaris by the truck load, and then suddenly stopping combat to do something moronic and self-indulgent.
.t chaos marine
They are the washed up jocks who peaked in high school (siege of terra) i doubt that aside from a select few like Kharn or Ahriman could defeat loyalist marines like Dante or Dantioch
>10 thousand years of combat experience
>compared to a guy that explicitly does not have 10 thousand years of combat experience and in fact died 10 thousand years ago
Okay nerd
Those ten thousand years of experience can also be 2 decades or months due to warp frickery and Sigsmund very much lived his one thousand years of war hunting traitors marines only losing to abaddon due to his old age
And Chaos steroids. Remember that Sigismund dealt what he, probably the greatest Space Marine killer in history, was sure was a lethal wound yet Ababby somehow not only survived but was able to talk with him. And this is a guy who spent more than a thousand years slaughtering the most powerful and twisted chaos champions, so you know for a fact these weren't just any regular old chaos boons, it was literally playing on godmode against a man on his deathbed and still getting btfo, then using the console to respawn.
It's cute how the artist took all this time to imply that Cortez has two left arms.
Warp messes with time, they haven't actually experienced 10,000 years
It’s either this, or they’re poorly made and poorly trained maniacs with little to nothing in the way of strategy or self-preservation. Fabius is constantly new marines, a few factions like the world eaters have their own apothecary equivalents, and some rogue labs make them for whoever will pay.
Perhaps true for 'Veterans of the Long War'. But 90+% of Chaos Space Marines were just cultists or even common people that got taken in a Chaos raid, stuffed with some degraded slither of heavily corrupted and muted gene-seed, and then exposed to warp energies by some inducting dark magister with their fingers crossed.
In one of the Carcharodon novels it talks about this. Both the sharkies and some night lords are raiding the same prison planet for new meat, particularly an unawakened psyker to succeed their respective librarians. So I assume abduction is the right answer.
>I assume abduction is the right answer.
The Night Lords trilogy has the protag's 2 slaves going on a kidnapping spree on a Red Corsair space station for prospects. If I recall they specifically target pregnant women.
Is the trilogy worth reading for someone who hasnt read a single heresy book but needs a trash pulp novel for travel?
They're junior high level bolter porn books, but there are some really cool concepts in them if you can deal with that. I would recommend you read some other 40k books first, but they wouldn't be a terrible place to start.
Most CSM are actually modern Space Marines who get corrupted for whatever reason.
I always thought warpfrickery let them sidestep allow those complications and they just jam some Geneseed into some cultist scrubs
The gist of it is:
>simply kidnapping new future soldiers and doing the procedures with whatever they have at hand plus sorcery and chaos
>warbands are made from previously existing Astartes that are just corrupted
>if it's a group with structure like an established legion they can just get new recruits the normal way and they trickle down to other warbands
I've always liked to think that they all have some different method, and it's all really awful.
Hyper fertile daemonettes
That doesn't look like something capable of bringing forth life.
Xier's cum injecting directly into a male's bussy turns them into a fully fledged chaos space marine
I assumed it was abduction and being less choosy with a warp tainted talent pool since there are allegedly humans in the Eye of Terror.
Apparently you can't work with people who are TOO warp-tainted.
If each space marine chaper of only a thousand fighting dudes can maintain the technology required to create space marines, then I imagine that the chaos warbands can do the same on the demon worlds they inhabit in the eye of terror.
um, its magic. frickin duh.
They plunder geneseeds where they can and run selection exams — ie, make 1000 people fight to the death and the last man standing gets inducted, or they set up bloodbaths and CSM commanders hand-pick promising warriors. They go through the same surgeries and therapy sessions, but each Chaos group gets magic support for this. CSMs are much fewer in number compared to loyalist SMs but thanks to Chaos buffs and Warp frickery they are also much less likely to die in battle so the turnover isn’t nearly as problematic. An ancient CSM from the Heresy would be god-like in his ability and power, held back by old equipment and whatever weird Chaos screwjob they’re suffering under. This isn’t even remotely represented on the tabletop but in lore a single CSM should seem like a walking apocalypse.
a huge part is simply warp shit, another part is they do have a few guy who are "sane" enough to keep doing those surgeries and even sometimes the supplies needed with the best example being Fabius who in many cases is the only reason many warbands are even able to make marines, and to get said gene seed they often rely on raids since by this point most of the traitor legions while still prefering their own geneseed don't have to many qualms taking the geneseed of loyalist marines, and from a meta perspective even with it being harder for chaos marines to keep a steady supply of geneseed and them supposed to be a rarity, space mariens in general sell to well for GW to ever make chaos marines as rare as they are supposed to be so they will always find a way to make them relevant
One thing that always bothered me is that with how people argue how CSM steal geneseed from loyalist chapters eventually you'll have chaos legions that over time would be majority ultramarines. Now if it was a once every blue moon when a loyalist chapter defects, sure, but it kinda defeats the whole thing about space marines being proud of their chapter/primarch/lineage/etc. Like imagine if a legion like a word bearer warband is majority ultramarines after 10k years. Other word bearer warbands/chapters should be giving them shit, and most legions should be logically looking at said warbands as poor
they do look down on said members, but the thing is with chaos space marines loyalty becomes increasingly worthless as you get more into it since chaos by its very nature encourages betrayel
yeah, but if you got 85% of all world eaters being descended from ultramarines/imperial fists due to attrition and new recruits being made from looted geneseed, can you really call them sons of angron? Especially since now the setting is placing emphasis about how marines are supposed to a superduper bond with their primarch at an instinctive level. You could swap world eaters, with the emperors children, iron warriors, etc.
Like why not just have fluff say that instead of seeking purer geneseed stocks, why not have CSMs embrace the warped nature of corrupted geneseed as it allows for more stronger baseline marines, with added affect that they get whatever mutation/boons of the previous marine they got said geneseed from, but at the cost of being more random in terms of mutation so while one marine has say claws that can rip a terminator armor in two, another could just have an empty eye socket and now needs to rely on their other senses, tailor it to whatever chaos god your legion is aligned with + undivided and you now have something that has an identity that is more distinct then vanilla marines, while being consistent with the theme of chaos.
Then again if they wanted to have CSMs be a metaphor from them feeding off the bloated carcass that is the imperium i guess that could also be cool, i guess.
It feels kind of fitting for the CSMs to eventually become a hodgepodge wearing the colors and honor of long-dead warriors and claiming their heritage, while really just being the cannibalized descendants of their sworn enemies.
>I feel like Nurglite, Khornate and Slaaneshi doctors all can't be trusted to do the implantation process right.
In all honesty, it's only the Khornates I wouldn't trust. Slaaneshi are obsessive perfectionists and Nurglites know how to keep a man alive long after he'd wish to be dead.
Khornates probably get their less-insane slaves to do it.
There's no way any kind of function could exist when everyone is possessed by clinically moronic rabies as a blessing from their god but whatever...
It's already a wonder that Khorne marines are able to make a months-long voyage through the warp in order to actually attack another planet, rather than simply killing eachother before they even get everything loaded onto the ship.
They rely heavily on the lunatic blood cultist version of edging. Sharpening?
Most Khornates, even berserkers are actually able to maintain lucidity. The Nails don't actually drive you insane, they just magnify existing bloodlust and dull other emotions and feelings. The truly rabid dogs are typically consumed in battle by war itself.
Remember, even Bloodletters can march in immense and immaculate formations, before being let loose with a howl of murder.
>CSM seem to be daemonically corrupted ravagers who fly around from fight to fight
Space marines are basically the same but without daemons.
Chaos marines just aren't as utterly dysfunctional as you think. Which isn't to say they aren't mental, but plenty of mental people in real life are reasonably functional.
They milk the Emperor.
Just run up to him, start suckling on his nipples, and eventually a little Space Marine comes out of them.
Stop posting your fapfics, foul cultist of Slaanesh
By all rights Chaos Space Marines should have a EASIER time replacing numbers, not being limited by the Tithe and Codex.
>loyalists turn traitor
>crazy warp techno magic done by dark mechanicus
>the old method done by chaos apothecaries
>warp frickery done by sorcery
>literally the reason why everyone begrudgingly keeps Fabius Bile and his cabal around. They NEED him and he knows it.
They are constantly recruiting renegade marines, you'll have entire chapters go renegade or traitor, or they'll disappear in the warp or the survivors disband after a failed battle.
Every time the Inquisition wants to exterminate a chapter they are a good candidate for joining Chaos.
magic
If you met a Nurgle CSM he’d probably seem very rational and well-adjusted on a surface level — you wouldn’t realize just how messed up he is until it was much too late (for you).
Make your own lore or just stick to what makes sense to you.
The eye of terror isnt JUST a warp storm, its also nearly the entire domain of the old eldar empire. The eye is full of planets and each one was at one point a paradise world. The bottleneck on recruitment isnt people, its geneseed getting too tainted
Obviously the official narrative is screwy and some Marines go rogue or get in the conversion pod lol.
The number of space marines has always bugged me. Even if chapters had had 50,000 marines they wouldn't be numerous enough to do half of what the fluff claims. Appreciate there are second founding chapters etc but there's maybe a million marines total which is low when their enemies number in the billions. Now primarchs are back hopefully they lift the cap to something that makes sense
>Now primarchs are back
For you they are. I reject anything from the Tau on in my head lol
sometimes you don't need to send a thousand men after a target, all you need is 20 dudes in helicopters fast roping down in the middle of the night to storm a compound, kill some guards, put a bullet in a commander's head, secure intel, maybe blow up some supply depots, and fade before the bodies are cold.
now picture those 20 dudes wearing enough power armor to qualify as light tanks, able to run at highway speeds for hours, and toting automatic rifles that fire armor piercing grenades as big as redbull cans and who are strong enough out of armor to casually break your neck with a pimp slap
point is at the setting scale, that describes ALL marine actions. they're so heavily outnumbered that every single marine in the galaxy could be killing 10 enemies an hour, every hour, every day, forever, and it would not make enough of a dent for a faction like tyranids or orks to notice. the numbers are just completely boned. like for a global tyranid invasion to make any kind of sense, you're talking tens of millions of gaunts, minimum, right? they're talking about swarming over the surfaces of earth like planets consuming everything on the order of days or weeks. honestly it's probably more like billions. if a chapter of 1000 marines show up, every single marine right down to the wet-behind-the-ears scouts needs to be soloing a few thousand gaunts each to make any kind of account of themselves. because a 1000 dudes, even if every single one of them is a walking tank action hero, is nothing.
which is why it's standard practice to shoot the big ones. kill enough synapse tyranids, you cause the swarm to become disorganized and go feral. same thing with functionally every other enemy marines face
None of the numbers in 40k have ever made sense, starting with the date.
so get the "thousands mown down en masse" thing out of the way first, because that's also a problem for regular marines and honestly most factions in general. there's been a growing disconnect in 40k in the past 8 editions between the overall setting scale and the local game scale. it can also be seen as a conflict between the original writers' vision (dystopian parody setting) and the current writers' version (marvel-esque comicbook scifi). in the large view whole systems are wiped out and nobody cares, in the small view the actions of individuals are super important. there's no way to rationalize these two things, so don't bother. but one of the consequences of it is that the numbers *never* make sense. the books are cooked all the way down.
so you deal with it on the local scale. and on that scale, marines (of both flavors) are badasses and don't die very often. there are a still not-insignificant number of heresy era marines kicking, especially among the CSM. in some cases - like the original death guard or rubric marines - they basically can't be put down permanently. and in the meantime new marines, either singly or in groups, have never stopped falling to chaos in the intervening 10,000 years. several groups of CSM are explicitly from younger chapters like the Red Corsairs. and maybe they also make some new marines from willing cultists or whatever, but it's not a big thing. the important part to remember is that the fights where marines actually die are relatively rare. at least in the local scale. in the big scale there's not enough marines on either side of the eye to matter at all.
yeah, 40k writers don't do numbers, see above
you actually can't even become a BL author if it's shown you were able to complete a primary school maths class. little known fact.
I was always fond of the dichotomy of Space Marines in 40k and Epic. In one, they were tough sons of b***hes, a pain to dislodge from anywhere and you could count on a small handful kicking your teeth in. In the other, you scooped gobs of them off the table from a 'light' barrage.
It just seemed to illustrate not only the difference between a controlled strike and total war, but also the scope of both games quite neatly.
as the others have stated GW has always been terrible with numbers, its not even just a space marine thing since if you ever pay attention to the numbers given in many battles you quickly realize how small they usually end up being despite the sheer scale of it
blessed is the mind too small for doubt for only he can enjoy 40k lore to its fullest.
from what I read it's a mixture of what everyone is saying. some csm are from fallen reg marines, some are "recruited" in a traditional sense just more chaos-y with consent being optional, and lastly some just sort of spawn from chaos being what it is.
I will say part of that last one is chaos marines being tied to chaos inherently so once they get above a certain amount of whatever you have to kill them in a much more intricate way or they just reform. though if I recall this is a chapter wide gimmick of theeeeee 1k sons?.
recruiting renegade/newly fallen marines, some still have dedicated recruiting grounds, others raid imperial worlds and kidnap kids for recruiting, they'll steal geneseed from storage banks or yank it out of slain loyalists, literally any way you can think of, they probably do
Canonically, CSMs win pretty much 90% of all engagements they take so most of them are 10,000+ year old veterans who have been fighting since the end of the Horus Heresy and they have suffered very few losses overall. Combined with recruitment from corrupted Space Marines and they outnumber the Imperium's Space Marines. They don't need geneseed.
>Canonically, CSMs win pretty much 90% of all engagements they take so most of them are 10,000+ year old veterans who have been fighting since the end of the Horus Heresy and they have suffered very few losses overall
Source, your ass? Traitors suffered horrendous losses on Terra and then even worse during the Great Scouring and most of those happened after The Lion blew up their homeworlds so very little new recruitment during this time. Then they spent 10000 years in massive infighting be it opposing warbands vying for power or champions of rival gods. And just hanging out in the Eye of Terror where random daemon shitters can and will frick you up if you slip up. So there is no way there are that many veterans of the Long War still around. Especially since new lore has Primaris making short work of them. The vast majority of CSM we see are bargain bin Astartes scrounged up by whatever method available to their warband, and it shows given how loyalists mow them down. The actual veterans are mostly officers and champions and they're the guys fricking shit up but there simply can't be more of them then a few dozen thousands AT MOST.
I was under the impression Chaos just respawned these losers.
There are three major issues for CSM insofar as replenishing their numbers.
The first major issue is geneseed is a scarce resource, so they spend a significant portion of their time raiding gene banks, killing other space marines, or doing favors for the leaders of Warbands to acquire them. This works out better than you might expect.
The second major issue is that CSM do not go through the process of vetting their candidates before implantation. They harvest slaves from planets, run surgical experiments and see what sticks. While ordinary SM live incredibly long lives because of the initial trials, CSM eventually develop systemic organ failure and/or severe mental disabilities due to their incompatibility.
The final issue is that the energy of the warp irreparably damages their progenoid glands, which makes salvaging geneseed from CSM virtually impossible.
Slaves which have experience fitting/maintaining CSM armor and/or managing the implantation process help mitigate these issues. So do Chaos Apothecaries. c**ts like Fabius Bile basically hold the entire faction together with liberal amounts of duct tape and glue.
Time frickery of the Eye of Terror. You know how Imperial ships can sometimes arrive months or years late (or sometimes before they set off) because of the warp? Well in the Eye of terror, Time is even more random, so most of the marines that get spat out occasionally are the original Chaos Marines that took part in the Horus Heresy - for many, the Heresy happened recently. That's about half of the Marines in existence at the Imperium's peak to draw upon, not the feeble million or so Marines the Imperium has left today. It's why many of the chaos Marines look archaic as frick or use outdated gear. For many of them, the original war has never ended, they have just regrouped and counter attacked, irespective of 10,000 years passing in the outside universe.
I have always thought Chaos Space Marines should reproduce by raping loyal Space Marines and corrupting them by shooting their demon cum in their buttholes.
The simple answer is they don’t, at least not easily. The majority of Chaos marines are survivors of the Scouring, and due to temporal anomalies of the Eye of Terror have basically survived to this day. So from the POV of Chaos marines it seems like they’re fighting the later stages of a lightning war that turned into a war of attrition over the course of a few decades or centuries, to the Imperium it’s more like centuries between Chaos incursions in a millennia-long war.
Still, that hasn’t stopped some warlords from attempting to refill their ranks for an attritional war, but remember also that Chaos warlords don’t just have to fight the Imperium, but also each other. Generally, the way warbands refill their ranks is by consolidating other warbands by being stronger, promising power, or even just having mutual interests. A system like this means warbands break and form quickly, but remember again, that even though this seems like only a few centuries to the forces of Chaos, this is ten thousand years to the Imperium. That’s ten thousand years for traitors and renegades to get sick of the Imperium and pledge to Chaos, meaning there’s opportunity for new warlords to burst in with new resources. Basically, the Imperium has to worry about replacing losses due to temporal attrition, while Chaos doesn’t.
And then after all that is the science of making new marines. Though some primarchs have stronger geneseed (Antron’s is apparently particularly strong to have replaced their losses in the Crusade) the geneseed is undeniably deteriorating, so the tech to make new marines requires stringent recycling of geneseed from both enemies and allies. Yes, some creative warpsmiths and apothecaries have figured out ways to -unify and even improve geneseed, but generally between ten-thousand years of renegade chapters, recycled loyalists, and monastery raids, Chaos has at least been able to replace some losses.
There are literally thousands of worlds I the eye of terror that function like slave colonies. The Death Guard have a recruitment world with a functioning apothecarium for example.
> Be a warsmith
>siege a planet
>achieve daemonhood
>raid a vault full of your ancient enemy’s geneseeds
>refuse to elaborate
>leave
Depends on the Warband. The more organized ones like Iron Warriors, Word Bearers or Red Corsairs can do it the old-fashioned way, even the Night Warriors do so. They either recruit from Chaos Worlds or simply kidnap promising youths in one of their campaigns. I think most warbands do so.
Otherwise Chaos Space Marines also recruit by simply cloning guys, just ask the Clonemaster. Or by resurrecting the guy, like the Nurglites like to do or Warp Sorcery in general. Then we have special cases like, in which an adult cultist even becomes a Chaos Space Marine Lord https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnMxQxjbLZs - warp sorcery can solve a lot of problems.
Then you got the influx of renegades or even infiltration of loyalist Space Marine structures, a speciality of the Alpha Legions who simply recruit their members from loyal Space Marine recruiting worlds.
Sure, if we're being technical. However they are indistinguishable from male marines down to the molecular level.
>Sure, if we're being technical. However they are indistinguishable from male marines down to the molecular level.
Not if they are daemonculaba!
The answer is it doesn't make sense.
>Even thought the Daemoncubila or whatever was destroyed in the same novel it was introduced, it can be thought that the Iron Warriors at least have some kind of recruitment process set up. But also they churn through their own marines at a ridiculous paces so it cancels out. 2nd Worst legion.
>World eaters are the terrible at this. There's one book where they fight Deldar wytches, slaughter one another, & Khorne is so pleased by the bloodshed that he sends forth a rain of blood to resurrect the countless dead, & the 2 forces leave as acquaintances. He must be sending this Blood-after every fricking battle as there's no way these dipshit berserkers aren't reducing themselves to like 15 dudes otherwise. No1 Worst legion.
>other Legions are a little better. They presumably have recruitment drives on their chaos-ridden home world like the chapters do. The chaos worshipping cultists producing neophytes presumably on par with Fantasy Warriors of Chaos.
>The brutal battles we see them fight would have to be rare occurrences, with several less lethal skirmishes off-screen as it were. But that's giving GW a lot of credit.
>basically it makes no sense how the incredibly Cut-Throat Chaos Legions keep up with attrition, let alone how so many "Centuries or Millenia" old champions keep showing up just to die in a horrific meatgrinder. Assuming the battles where large numbers of Chaos Marine die are highly uncommon rarities, & that the rest of the time they operate like the Marines in the Astartes series, but with spikes on, & that Blue on Blue killings are rare enough to not outstrip recruitment, & that all the Chaos Warband on Chaos Warband infighting is Marines killing eachother's cultists & not eachother.
Then it does kind of make sense. If you do all the legwork for the writers
>Tl:Dr there are as many Chaos Marines as the plot demands
>Assuming the battles where large numbers of Chaos Marine die are highly uncommon rarities
The Death Guard lost easily tens of thousands in the Plague War, although since we know they are one of the most organized traitor legions with their own recruitment worlds and if we assume Nurgle worshippers have an even easier time resurrecting than other chaos followers, it is feasible they can recover from a massive war like that in a few centuries.
>He must be sending this Blood-after every fricking battle
There are stories of planets where everyone getting resurrected by Khorne is the daily routine.
New marines going traitor
Traitor apothecaries still working off uncorrupted/stolen gene-seed implanting young cultists who proved themselves(Crimson Slaughter put them on lower deck where turbo chaos spawn lives and ones who survive are implanted).
Better Call Fabius
Birthing factories simlar to dune axlotl tanks, some made by Fabius.
Necromancy/ressurection especially true in case of Plague Marines.
In reality numbers in warhammer never made sense, try not to think about it.
Add to that; time warp shenanigans.
It'd be kind of neat that if when GW finally axe First Born they have a bunch of them turn to chaos. Bolsters chaos numbers, makes marine gays seeth. It's win win
haven't played since early 4th, but I always assumed it was bile spitting out clones.
You do realize that people canonically fall to chaos all the time right? Recruitment is as simple as a few whispered promises until they bite.
All the logistics of 40k made more sense when the setting was stuck in the last years/decades of late 40 or early 41 millenium as the final straws of the dying imperium.
The moment the timeline starts to move, things like chapter/warbands sustainability or the guard attrition rates are too dumb to be rationally explained.
True. I would like to see the CSM use some creative methods of filling out their warbands, like using daemons, or maybe experimenting with making their own Men of Iron, although Perty is really the only one who might be able to make his own.
Honestly if they just become quantity over quality and start fielding regular ass humans (plus or minus some warp frickery) that may be a good way to show that the constant war is taking its own toll on them.
Look up the fluff for Inductii in the newest HH sourcebooks. During the Heresy the space marines took a lot of shortcuts to boost their recruitment rate. It stands to reason that the traitors continue the practice while the loyalists, limited to 1,000 marines, can afford to be more selective.
Already happened one of the khorne champions from demon world is a woman just wears a living suit
>Already happened one of the khorne champions from demon world is a woman just wears a living suit
I thought Valkia the Bloody was a Fantasy character...
I don't think it's her in Daemon World (haven't read it recently) but Valkia is a Daemon Princess so she can be in 40k or WHFB just as easily, and I think Magnus has already been in AOS and WHFB
>I don't think it's her in Daemon World
Only female Warrior of note I could find is Caduceia, a "half daemon" serving as the commander of Lady Charybdia's forces.