God do I want a proper Big Hat Chaos Dwarf Faction. They should have two paths, one for slavery and genetics research, where you see stuff like pic related as well as modified slave troops, aka bring back the Black Orcs. While the other path should all be about high technology in the form of trains and connecting them together to the point that the old Squat Trainset is remade for them/and or if you really want to go AoS levels of pants on head moronic, have said train parts connect together to form a giant walking Gundam/Zoid.
Not possible, the setting is inherently unappealing and lacks the basic intrigue points that cause 40K to be popular. Nobody wants Slightly Dirtier Warcraft.
>make the realms go through the industrial revolution >make order very clearly the good guys while having them based off of nazi germany >get all the edgelords who grew out of LOTR >make a very accessible video game >get all the people who wanted to get in but dont play table top
>campaign book of the end times, that show the destruction of the realms and the death of the setting >sigmar dies, long live sigmar! >the age of sigmar is no more >a new world is created, looks a lot like the og world >skulls, guns, etc etc >your new game is called Age of Warhammer Fantasy Battle
Fixed. Sales explode.
>either unaware or disingenuous of the sales for WFB from 3rd-7th edition >didn't attend a local meta from 1998-2009 >unable to form an opinion entirely on his own, such as reading rulebooks and army books to determine, "wha happun" to the game
Yeah it turns out most semi-sentient people won't play a game that requires you to have a multiple units of 40 skeleton warriors, sold in boxes of 10 for $25 dollars, when you can play a game where you only need 10 space Marines in two squads of five, sold in boxes of 10 for $35. Sales were entirely reflective of customers rejecting a bad deal.
no one buying models for game, because game too expensive requiring too many models -> old customers no longer buying new models, because too many new expensive models required to upgrade their force -> new edition of game requires larger army size, and price of models goes up -> no one buying models for game, because game too expensive requiring too many models
Didn't help that each new battle tomb ruleset outdated the last updated armys book and some factions never get updates at all. Some units didn't even have models.
>balde not!Duncan spends an whole interwiev saying that fantasy was in the gutter >at some point he said they dind't keep it on release-less "life support" to not confuse newcomers >"see guys they killed it to boost AoS"
I love how you started making this talking points months after the video hoping people forgot what it was actually about
The fantasy model of army building, where you needed to buy hundreds of dollars of basic troopers before you could even start fielding the cool models was the problem.
It killed incentive to enter the game, because yeah, that new unit of Gryphon Knights for Empire looked great, but buying 120 infantry just to use them made them obscenely expensive for anyone looking to get into the game. It ended up being people who already invested in previous editions sitting on their same army's, just adding the new stuff when they got their update every 2-3 years. Around the end of Fantasy my local shops were just holding the new kits, because the actual armies just werent selling.
The Age of Sigmar army design works much better for factions where you need like 2-3 boxes of infantry, then get some cool elite units, maybe a monster or two, then a cool hero to be a centerpiece. Lets people buy into a faction with little prior investment. Why they felt the need to blow up a good setting with great factions already in it who knows?
Buying 120 infantry was MO just a few years back for AoS and they were selling unlike WHFB, with armies rivaling if not being larger sized than fantasy, just FYI. This was changed at end of 2nd when reinforcements system was introduced to curb army sizes.
The first edition of AoS was kind of crazy, that is true, everyone was also just using their older stuff for most of the factions. But the new factions they were throwing out in those early years were no where as crazy as before. Stormcast usually had 50-60ish models for an army, as did sylvaneth, Iron Jaws, really the only new factions that just spammed guys were the Blades of Khorne because you just wanted to spam Bloodsecrators and bodies, and the fire dwarves because they were so cheap.
They fixed the frick out of their release schedule and their rules by 2nd edition and while still buggy, its pretty ok in 3rd.
But for the past two editions, you did have factions which wanted to dump a hundred or more models, but there are plenty of easier factions to invest hobby wise into if you dont want to paint a hundred infantry.
Sylvaneth for longest time would spam full sized dryad armies (x30 per unit) while also spamming more on top from summoning. You also had CoS (not sure what they got now with the new book, been meaning to check), Skink armies, etc.
>
But for the past two editions, you did have factions which wanted to dump a hundred or more models, but there are plenty of easier factions to invest hobby wise into if you dont want to paint a hundred infantry.
That's true, but that's also true for Fantasy.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, those old summoning armies were a terrible mistake gameplay wise. Its a good thing they changed them.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, that's true. GW seems to always struggle with summoning, they had such an opposite problem in 40k with it too.
7 months ago
Anonymous
The problem is that either your giving one player free points of units, which is really hard to balance, or your making them start with less stuff on the board in games where going first usually gives you a huge ability to punish the opponent for not having everything on the table.
The current AoS Chaos factions do summoning pretty well, where summoning demons is usually a reward for doing the specific gimmick of that faction, so you have to put the work in while your playing instead of just having a wizard and suddenly you are playing a 2300point army against a 2000point army after the first turn.
The issue with AoS is that it appeals to exactly no one. >weird fantasy esthetics, reminiscent of vg fantasy from the mid-2000's, now archaic >lore and setting is so open ended, it doesn't drive the creative spark, lacking focus and clear parameters >not rank and flank, removing those fantasy customers >not quite skirmish, removing those fantasy customers >never quite received a warm welcome from long-time customers, as it forced its entrance and it's birth came at the death of another long running product >game is almost a decade old now, and has yet to find a core base of fans, continuing to alienate potential customers, worried about finding games
Who exactly is the targeted audience for this product? If a consumer base was identified, why do sales continue to under perform?
>removing those fantasy customers >removing those fantasy customers
Those customers don't fcukign exist. Only other fantasy model line with any shred of popularity makes models for D&D.
Can a sunk cost fallacy exist when no one has touched this game since 2015? Only a single anecdote, however: >regularly attend the #1 game store in my 3 million population city >YU-GI-OH, MtG, Weiss Schwartz, 40k, Bolt Action, D&D, and even board game groups crowd the playing halls daily >attending for 18 years, never once seen a game of AoS be played
noting can be WH40k, 40k has reach (wow lvls of popularity) noting in wargaming has never reach such lvl, 40k is special for that reason. AoS IS doing better than fantasy by a BIG margin and that is enoght for GW.
TLDR: noting can be as popular, 40k lvls of popularity in wargaming are not a target anyting can reach at this point.
>noting >lvl >tldr on a one sentence, badly spelt and entirely wrong opinion
You have absolutely no idea how Aos sells as no individual product information has ever been made available you moron. Age of Mattel is so unwanted it has not had one single successful license deal in it's entire existence
>Who exactly is the targeted audience for this product?
People who are tired of 40k for various reasons (space marine fatigue, edition-specific bullshit, et cetera)
And here is the problem. Of those that quit, those that make the jump to other games are a minority. Most people quiting w40k, are done with table tops. Sometimes for decades or for ever.
In order to make AoS a success GW would have to A act as if it not GW (impossible) B the setting would have to be of the type people care.
Right now AoS is an IP setting where stuff is made "cool" and "different' mostly for the sake of GW being unable to trade mark a high elf.
The worse part about the setting build up though, is that it will for a long time(in no small degree thanks to the success of the TW series) be compared to the lore of WFB. And I do not claim that WFB lore some pinacle of fantasy setting lore creation. It wasn't. But it was something that people had for a long time and it was full of stuff of things they recognise. Like Knights, 30y war germany, maybe tolkien different type of elves or surely you like dwarf that dwarf ? It is easier (and that is why it was done at first, with w40k too) to like something you already have positives views about. It is a lot harder to do stuff, like "see they are like space marines, but they aren't space marines" or "those are dwarfs, but they are crazy horse strippers now with females added too".
Also the setting "geography" doesn't speak to the regular autist that likes table top games. People like maps, history, stuff that they can follow and not multiple realms phasing through each other , random teleportation devices etc.
Now that doesn't mean that AoS can't create a fandom, and grow it. It will just take a lot of time, and unlike WFB, AoS does have non GW produced things it has to deal with. And those don't have to be super great either, the basic pick up gamer does an 180, when they hear about sesons list rebuilding and entry armies being +800$. Major popularity could take AoS decades.Question is table top gaming, in its physical form, produced by GW, exist the way it does now in lets say 20-30 years.
You'd be surprised about how little the lore actually matters. 90% of people didn't even know what space marines were beyond being part of the Imperium and fighting for the Emperor before 8th edition.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>You'd be surprised about how little the lore actually matters.
And then you go on to mention 8th, which launched at the peak of "star wars starting sucking," which brought in GW's new, #1 customer: The Previous Star Wars Fan Who Doesn't Like That Stuff Anymore (TM)
7 months ago
Anonymous
I agree with your, but we are talking here about a rise in popularity. Could GW make AoS a really good game ? In theory yes and in practics not really. But I assume that more popular means is being something like some normy looking at X and saying/thinking ah those are those fire slayers. You need a basic culture imput to get such a popularity. Lets take the example of w40k. It is the biggest, people Know it or Know of it. A GF/mother can one day say "ah those are those marine thingies". There is nothing similar for AoS, or worse they can think that stormcast are marines.
To use your example. People (as in those outside of the table top hobby) know of marines and some memes (like the Trump God Emperor one). People know nothing about AoS, and it is not because of GW support, not enough books, not enough pages of lore. GW made all those things. The problem is that the AoS setting right now is not that interesting. People that want better games, more games will go to other systems (and not all will be w40k) those looking for a "fantasy" itch probably won't pick up a full AoS army as their thing of choice either.
Now if GW was smart they would put more focus on that not kill team/not necromunda game they have for AoS. And add to them some "regular" humans and not just 200 shades of chaos, with then some non human races.
The game needs a "Gotre+Felix" aka the characters that walk you through the world. And those books have to be writen not just for normies, but they have to be good enough that people want to read more of then.(what WFB books did in the past) they have to have that "what are those X, that Gotrek slew this book about". Right now AoS feels (besides the obvious IP protection, for which WFB died), as setting lore is, as Witcher seson 3 or Wheel of Time , only in the TV script form, and not the book.
And again, can AoS keep a fandom , that is loyal and constant ? sure. But so those run with wife on your back or knife throw .
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Now if GW was smart they would put more focus on that not kill team/not necromunda game they have for AoS. And add to them some "regular" humans and not just 200 shades of chaos, with then some non human races.
Go back and do some research into the ads for AoS from about 2015-2018. They went hard in the paint for it. It was everywhere, and was that 'new hotness.'
It went about as well as you'd think, and standing where we are now, it went as just as well as you now know.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Oh over they did. There were models planned, there were mold bought, there were slots for it and they wanted/had to kill WFB, because it was impossible to protect. But even then look how long it takes GW to remove the old from w40k and fantasy. For w40k it is 3 editions, for WFB it was "we will have something new next month, end times enjoyers"... AoS drops.
Also I know that in the age of group work, participation thropies etc People may think that just because someone did a lot of work , it somehow matters. AoS was SAVED by the fans, if it wasn't for the fans point systems and comps it would have died. It had a rough start anyway.
But again you are trying to get a slightly bigger pie slice, from one that is already mostly locked in for the w40k fans. The proposition her was how to make the AoS game more popular, and not how to make it more popular for w40k players. Because that is going to be a losing fight, almost always (as I am a firm beliver that no things are too big to fail, in the end).
The people that ACTUALY play dont care for the lore
7 months ago
Anonymous
And the number of them is small. I know that AoS was the second game for sometime (sells wise), but the difference in size between it and w40k WORLD WIDE, is gigantic.
The question asked here was not what to do to keep the people who are already there . Just don't make the armies too crazy in cost, no w40k "balance" differences, churn but not to slow, nor too fast. Updating armies, which is probably the only thing GW has problems with.
But we are talking here about making AoS popular, or at least more popular.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Then just make more video games, 40k is 90% secondaries that dont even buy models.
7 months ago
Anonymous
See it is not that simple. WFB was easy to port in to games about rank and files of models. Spells just become "orders" and the rest is just stats and graphic desing. You can make W40k in to some sort of Xcom clone. You can make it an RPG. With AoS it is a lot harder, because you both miss the popularity AND the instant recognition. Ah so those are LotR elves/Celts/etc is easier to hook a player|(and remember the Game has to make money, some company paid license for it), then something that needs explanations that requier you to sometimes go back to WFB to explain stuff.
7 months ago
Anonymous
everyting is and excuse to you. Just make a good slash and w/e fighting game and put a good lore on it and make diferent story paths for order, caos, destruction and death......
you dont need a lead to start the popularity train, just a good product and the character you put on it will be popular (yes, people is just that simple, Gotrek and felix are boring characters doing boring stuff but people love it)
7 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, I spend my life developing marketing strategies for actual companies, not at a collage. I am not saying everything I did in my life was super succesful, but IMO, that is even better. I could write pages about how/why Coca Cola Co failed in certain countries or parts of the world.
And yes everything is an excuse when you have to propose it to your boss. They hate new things, they love to remove stuff, Add stuff, especialy new stuff no so much. And by the way they are right. Ideas are great, but you can't garentee they will work. Gotrek and Felix, to use the WFB example, were loved/liked before the books and before GW becoming big. Just like both main GW games. There was stuff to build on. I don't think Gotrek and Felix were boring. They were too popular(in sales numbers) to be boring. Now they could be boring to you, but I can tell you that they weren't boring to the company and the people that bought the books over and over again (especialy as they also were translated in to multiple languages, that is never done to non popular things. too high cost and too high risk)
And if "Just make a good" had power over reality all of us in marketing would be living castles full of Thai and Nam lady bois.
dude, WHF maybe popular and shit when it was alive but nobody played/buy the stuff. GW does not care how much people like it to be there or talk of it if nobody is buying the models. Maybe totalwar wa a succes JUST because WHF just die and people wanted to check a videogame about a death game that created alot of drama.
Well nobody played it because of player base degredation, which was the result of GW policy. You can't have edition after edition of bad choices (and I mean really bad one "Lets make minimal game used units ~40-60 model size and make the boxes 10-16/20 model sized") and expect something to grow. Now maybe this was a councious choice. Milk the super fans till you have a replacment product ready, is something that companies do. It is real, although 2-3 editions is a bit "long" in a luxury goods market. But that is more of an academical argument, we can have it here, but I think people would be bored by it. You choice anon.
Or to make it less Too Long to READ
WFB didn't die, WFB was killed.
7 months ago
Anonymous
It was killed cause the GAME was beyong saving at that point. Yout think they take that decision just like that? I can only agree that the transition to AoS was rushed, if they make it super slow and change the lore slowly from a planet to the realms the WHF fans wont be still crying 8 years later. AoS was a good decision, game is way healtier than ever , lore is getting better and the game system is fun. haters are just people that read memes or the constant biching of old fans that wont move on.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Anon if you don't release armies, don't fix balance, make crazy (From consumers point of view) decision on how many models are needed tot be played, then any game can be killed. Make a marine army requier 140-160 models to play and you will kill w40k.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Would help if you actually played during said era, WHFB 8e was having constant model releases and balance adjustments before suddenly getting axed in midst of releases. Good portion of AoS are just 7e and 8e Warhammer Fantasy releases.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>and balance adjustments
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Anon if you don't release armies
Dieing corpse of wfb was getting more releases than AoS does, mostly because AoS has to sell all the warehouse clogging junk wfb shat out in those years when nooone bought anything from it
7 months ago
Anonymous
dude, WHF maybe popular and shit when it was alive but nobody played/buy the stuff. GW does not care how much people like it to be there or talk of it if nobody is buying the models. Maybe totalwar wa a succes JUST because WHF just die and people wanted to check a videogame about a death game that created alot of drama.
It's been almost a decade. AoS has made no noticable, meaningful traction within the tabletop community. It was doomed from the start. Why do I say this? Warhammer Total War is not AoS Total War. AoS has no appeal. It appeals to no one.
Suggesting, "How do we make AoS popular" misses the point entirely. You can't, because it lacks appeal. Take Blizzard Entertainment. They sit around, dump millions into development, and hire top tier talent. Yet WoW won't gain subscribers or make them the money it did from a decade ago. Blizzard is stuck bashing their head into the wall, missing the point: WoW appeals to no one anymore. The aesthetics are ancient and passe. MMOrpg is a dead and boring concept.
AoS will continue to be that GW product that comes up in your advertisement feed every so often, and you'll continue to "blindly" see it and scroll on.
Selling a shit sandwich is hard, because the market for a shit sandwich is basically not existent. Add all the ingredients you want, hire all the finest chefs, run the biggest Superbowl ads. The main ingredient is shit, and shit appeals to no one.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>AoS will continue to be that GW product that comes up in your advertisement feed every so often, and you'll continue to "blindly" see it and scroll on.
Or "hey this flesh eater kit has some cool bits I can use to make a kitbashed Khrave alien detachment for Dark Eldar with clawed fiend rules".
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Or "hey this flesh eater kit has some cool bits I can use to make a kitbashed Khrave alien detachment for Dark Eldar with clawed fiend rules".
I feel directly called out
7 months ago
Anonymous
>MMOrpg is a dead and boring concept.
I wouldn’t say MMOs are dead so much as Blizzard’s particular way of handling MMOs are dead.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I mean, FF15 is basically the last big hoorah of the classical mmo genre and most people I know play it for the story more than the MMO aspect.
I don't understand your point when AoS is successful, it's second most popular and selling wargame on the market. The only stuff that ever rivals it is star wars+marvel boomers playing Shatterpoint+MCP. It's spread enough that most people who play wargames will have both 40k army and an AoS army.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>second most popular and selling wargame on the marke
Please, I really need you to understand this for the sake of this conversation and debate: miniature wargaming is a niche, within a niche. Games Workshops "market share" is nothing compared to the money say, women's cosmetics brings in.
When you analyze Games Workshops market share and dominance, you need to be aware of what the competition looks like at the production/advertisement level. Success for any company will be small and look tiny
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Please, I really need you to understand this for the sake of this conversation and debate: miniature wargaming is a niche, within a niche. Games Workshops "market share" is nothing compared to the money say, women's cosmetics brings in.
this isn't unique to you, but this is an extreme example, I'm genuinely interested in what the frick goes through somebody's head when you adopt pompous know-it all tones to state the obvious in such a ridiculous way
what the frick, I'm dumbfounded
the wargames market is a smaller market than women's cosmetics.... no fricking shit!
is it simply "only pretending to be moronic" trolling? i'm baited if so, is it a coping strategy for being one of the autists on the wrong side of the IQ curve, believing yourself to have, and writing in a way that imitates, insight and intelligence?
genuinely bizarre
7 months ago
Anonymous
>he still doesn't get it
7 months ago
Anonymous
there's nothing to get besides what compels somebody to think "wargaming is a smaller market than women's cosmetics" is worth time to type and read
I am genuinely interested in what the frick goes through somebody's head
7 months ago
Anonymous
there's nothing to get besides what compels somebody to think "wargaming is a smaller market than women's cosmetics" is worth time to type and read
I am genuinely interested in what the frick goes through somebody's head
Have you considered that you're just stupid? From where I'm standing the guy is trying to make a point to you about market capture and it's just fascinating watching you run into a brick fricking wall...
7 months ago
Anonymous
i am stupid in many ways but not in the way you think
7 months ago
Anonymous
That is like saying that a dude who is 165 is high, because he is second tallest in class, but the first dude is 194.
AoS has practicaly no normy recognition. W40k has it.
If your goal for growth is just to canibalise other games, then with the cost of GW armies, you will always be at a lost position, because the "casual lore ignorer and game enjoyer" when faced with what ever he should get an extra w40k army or AoS army, will more often pick the more popular one.
7 months ago
Anonymous
It taken till tail end of 8th edition (if not 9th) for 40k to have normie recognition, but that didn't make it unsuccessful. It's not cannibalizing other games to say that AoS is far from unsuccessful in the market, especially one as congested as wargaming.
7 months ago
Anonymous
No, 8th and 9th. was WORLD WIDE recognition, 8th and 9th was the time, when movie stars showed their armies (and yes I know Robbn Willams loved WFB orcs and had and O&G army), it was the time where you suddenly were mind blown that X streamer just happened to have a w40k army and Y youtber suddenly created a hobby channel etc.
w40k had recognition before. AoS has nothing like that.
"We" don't.
Well of course, but we can treat it like a logic puzzle.
7 months ago
Anonymous
WHFB only got recognition after it was gone and creative assembly butchered the setting to make their vidya to popularize it
>Question is table top gaming, in its physical form, produced by GW, exist the way it does now in lets say 20-30 years.
GW will definitely transition to being a company that makes 3D printers with plastic and scans for models that people can print themselves and play a Warhammer game using rules they subscribed to online, which change weekly so as to confound people who would normally just pirate them. GW stores will become gaming areas and collectible shops selling the warhammer funkopops to 65 year old zoomlennials reminiscing the good old days of the 2010s, before WW3 caused Poland to spontaneously be vaporized while China split into china 1 and 2 and the USA annexed mexico to become the Mutt Imperium, a land where everyone has a fake tan and broccoli hair so you don't know what race anyone is.
Wrong AoS has a strong core audience at the expense of long time gorgs and youtube addicted zoomers who reeeee about it killing old world.
Fantasy died so AoS could run. Its rocky start hindered it but were settling nicely into 3rd now. The game just needs a good dawn of war of its own to breakout past the tabletop.
Absolutely delusional you paint huffing moron, 3rd edition killed it and there have been multiple Dawn of War equivalents, thing is though they were all set in the Old World, no one wants to touch your infantile shit that looks like a LoL rip-off from ten years ago with a barge pole. gaymar has ben around for a decade and it has had exactly zero impact while the setting it was supposed to replace has only grown in popularity
>niche within niche >only max spergs at the tables >gamer ages are 11-15y/o, or 46 y/o, there is no other >starter sets rotting on shelves, the soulless sigmarine face staring hauntingly for all time, potentially gaining toy story 2 level sentience
Those stats are only from one third-party reseller
We do not have all the stats from all the stores, most importantly those run by GW
So it most likely still is the 2nd most selling/popular one
Back in 2e sigmar was full of customization and fun rules. Each army had tons of spells, artefacts, subfactions, command traits, and you could get more by declaring a realm of origin. There was a lot of /yourdudes/ potential and lots of fun rules and scenarios. It wasn't the best balanced game but somehow managed to be more balanced than 40k.
Then the tourneygays came. 3e followed
Now realm of origin rules are gone. Subfaction rules got compressed to a single sentence each, and most artifact, command trait and spell lists got gutted. On top of that the setting has been stuck in a single realm that has been barely explored. It was hyped to be the Age of Destruction but nothing has happened. We're in a boring status quo in a setting we barely know.
It could have been 40k's more fun little brother but now it's as boring as 40k trying to copy it.
Bloodbowl is a very small niche
Sigmar when it was fun (2e) was 2nd best top seller, now that it's bland (3e) its popularity is falling
It had the niche of "40k, but fun and for casuals" and had a large community to sustain of 40k runoff
There's never been any real correlation between success and quality where GW games are concerned. If you sat down and listed geedubs' top 10 rulesets, you'd probably have 8 that aren't even in print anymore and 2 that are relegated to 2nd rate specialist games reboots. meanwhile your highest seller is 40k, a game with rules that are rushed out on regular rotation as glorified advertising pamphlets.
>Then the tourneygays came. 3e followed
And now the entire game balance is being tinkered by the sales.
Fresher armies are getting armies are getting power up hand jobs, while the remnants of whfb (except for sog) are give copypasted rules, that are even worse than they used to be in 2nd edition.
Much of the groundwork is already done, it's already designed for low denominator appeal and with big shiny posterboys. All they'd need would be for the factions to be actually appealing and to have any lore for people to get into at all. 40k shows that the lore doesn't even have to be good or consistent, there just needs to be more than puddle-depth of it.
Make less dogshit moronic models like pic rel and make more good ones like the Abhorrent Archregent, Harbinger of Decay, and Saurus Scar-Veteran on Aggradon
It's literally that simple.
>WoW shoulders to the max, extremely goofy top-heavy design, moronic cow theme for a not!high elf faction
This model is one of the worst GW has released in the last decade, you're either mindbroken or a shill.
I dunno, sigmar is visually quite nice, but it has no cohesive whole. Also the stupid, stupid renaming. Orks are orks, just them orks. Also elves. I know you can't copy right them but for fricks sake you are games workshop, you steal for a living.
But visually, you have the best orks ever, some of the best undead ever sculpted to the point that DnD players are ordering soulblight gravelords models and some other nicer stuff, the demons and cultists are the best yet, but somehow many don't have crossover rules like the old fantasy demons used to with 40k.
The daemons still have crossover rules. The only daemons that don't are Vashtorr who is 40k slop anyway and I guess the two new slaanesh greater daemons who are tied more into the lore of the setting
AGE of sigmar starts way after the Jobbing, It start when sigmars deploy the stormcast for the firts time and that was waaaaay after Archaon won for a second time. 90% of the realms where just Caos Domain and the firts edition and lore plot points where all about holding some gates and creating the Main cities.
People say that there's no love or passion left in GW, and that it's only soulless cashgrabbing. Which is mostly true, but it is sort of heartwarming how through all of this the writers are still wanking Archaon against all sense and logic.
>How do we make Age of Sigmar as popular as Warhammer 40k? >rules improvements
Anon do you think 40k got where it got by having good rules? Because 40k hasn't had those in a while.
AOS has shit lore and shit rules and shit models designed to appeal to 15 year olds who play league. Its simultaneously too simple to retain an adult audience's attention and too bloated (and poorly balanced as a result) to retain the attention of children
So just like whats happening to 40k then?
Fugg the dumbass releases of the last 5 years, I hate Marines+ with a passion.
So at least they provoked some kind of emotion, I guess.
>AoS 1.0
WoW pauldrons and 2000s era out of date style >AoS 2.0
Sidecuts and dykes. Women stopped shaving the 1 side of their head in like 2013 >AoS 3.0
Blaaaaaaaaack people after BLM is already gone and scammed everyone
Phenotypes on toy soldiers are meme. GW already painted similar features white in Underworld and you moron didn't even notice, because your npc brain can't think beyond official paint sheme
But you didn't notice. Axe guy has a bigger flatter nose than the canonical black guy from Hexbane Hunters, yet you didn't say a word about those features when they were painted white there, because you have to be shown them painted black to notice you low iq mongrel
7 months ago
Anonymous
>but you didn't notice!!!
Then why did all those threads calling this guy a white black/slav exist, you commie revisionist?
7 months ago
Anonymous
So suddenly you CAN paint the same phenotype white and it's just a slav? And who is the revisionist here
7 months ago
Anonymous
>he doesn't know
There's been tons of slav jokes about
>You can paint everybody white if you want.
i guess you havent seen this model phenotype
All the Caucasian paint tone in the world wont make that thing non-african
too. You'd know that if you weren't some gishgalloping politihomosexual only here to fight the culture war.
>I cant tell that FLAT nosed BRILLOPAD hair'd kid is a black kid
homie you moronic. A genetic defect in your melanin doesnt make you white all of a sudden
idk I mostly get mad at this because you know it ist just plain pandering by GW and the worst shit is it actually works, when you start pointing out that the cities of sigmar look like a medival college campus flyer, suddenly you are the butthole for pointing out the obvious pandering
>Phenotype
Not a thing. Nobody looks at the Catahan models and assumes "Clearly, this is black" even though their features are equally over the top.
So we've gone from >it doesn't exist and you're crazy for thinking it does
To >it exists and you're crazy for noticing
No, you fricking moron, it doesn't exist. Nobody looks at the Sly Marbo model and assumes "Clearly, this has a white phenotype."
>I cant tell that FLAT nosed BRILLOPAD hair'd kid is a black kid
homie you moronic. A genetic defect in your melanin doesnt make you white all of a sudden
I've seen people like that in real life. You are a subhuman.
>I've seen people like that in real life
yes. they are albino.
they still have black parents, that dudes kid (if his wife is also african) there is a high chance his defect wont pass on, and his kids will be black too just like him you fricking moron.
>yes. they are albino.
No, I've seen actual 100% pure aryan white west europe with over the top facial features, it happens. People look differently from each other.
>they still have black parents,
No. They do not. Genes don't work that way anyway.
7 months ago
Anonymous
find me a photo of one. >black parents
Are you impling genes passed on by BLACK parents wont be in their offspring and GENES arent heritable?!!??! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Afircan DNA and therefore bonestructure, IQ, risk of genetic disease like sickle cell anemia, does not come from their parents and is not heritable >If you have pale skin you are not a pale skin african, you are 100% a white man and race is only skin deep
homie you went full moron
7 months ago
Anonymous
>No. They do not. Genes don't work that way anyway.
You're confusing genes in general with the non-genetic brain damage you have from hitting your head too hard.
I think a softer reboot would have been for fantasy to be honest. Like a major time skip but still a story that takes place on the old world. The biggest problem Age of Sigmar has is that coming up with a new setting is hard.
Yeah, more actual WFB would've been way better. Grimgor beats down on Archaon, crisis averted and everybody can go home know, and then a few hundred years later, everything is mostly the same but different in a few key ways. And a lot of the named characters stick around due to some form of immortality or other (i'm still salty that all of the cool ones are dead or irrelevant in AOS)
>Grimgor beats down on Archaon, crisis averted and everybody can go home
That's Storm of Chaos and the game died partially as a result of it ruining GW's attempt at narrative. You're asking them to repeat oneof their biggest mistakes
Why the bloody hell would you set up a game that can be decided by players if you were only going to have one outcome? "Chaos gets utterly buttfricked" should have been a acceptable outcome for the story they should have prepared for.
Both are garb but age of shitmar is a special kind of bad. Everything about it is terrible from the game itself to the lore. I don't know how you could frick something up as badly as AOS honestly.
When you realize AoS is full of the kinds of people who come to /tg/ and post thei 'unique new ideas' like dwarfs that are tall and drink wine, it makes a lot more sense.
But then why have them as dwarfs at all? Why can't they just be normal humans, who like wine?
It starts to sound like my niece, which tries to find a new disorder for herself every new semester.
Yes moron you've discovered that actually good fantasy has grounding and borrowing from previous fantasy which borrows from myths.
Your fantasy is SHIT because it's literally you just making things up that have no relation to anything that has existed, then considering yourself a genius creator for it. Oh wait that's not even actually what you did, what YOU did was take the horribly campy garbage that was world of warcraft and then add black lesbians to it, so it's actually worse than "something you came up with that has no relation to anything else" because it's literally based on something terrible that was created purely to sell DLC/expansion packs.
But then why have them as dwarfs at all? Why can't they just be normal humans, who like wine?
It starts to sound like my niece, which tries to find a new disorder for herself every new semester.
Why can't dwarfs be dwarfs, men be men etc ?
Because people who make tall gay dwarfs without beards who drink wine are not actually creative they're just subversive morons. Somewhere they recognize their own thing sucks or isn't good, but they've bought into the cult of "flashy WoW colors from 2006".
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Actual good fantasy
Not a thing because 99% of fantasy is shit anyway. Nor is it inspired by actual myths anyway. It's literally all just Tolkien larping like he lived in a country with actual history and myths.
>which borrows from myths.
No good fantasy made over the last 50 years borrows anything from myths besides some vague names.
>Your fantasy is SHIT because it's literally you just making things up that have no relation to anything that has existed
Wow, you mean it's actually fantasy?
>Oh wait that's not even actually what you did, what YOU did was take the horribly campy garbage that was world of warcraft and then add black lesbians to it, so it's actually worse than "something you came up with that has no relation to anything else" because it's literally based on something terrible that was created purely to sell DLC/expansion packs.
Have you ever heard the phrase doublethink?
>Because people who make tall gay dwarfs without beards who drink wine are not actually creative they're just subversive morons.
I agree. They should just remove dwarfs altogether. Same for every other fantasy trope ever made.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>it's that guy who reddit replies line by line like he's doing a SICK OWN
Naw, not reading that. Tolkein and Moorcuck and Conan worked because they were written by educated men who put years, decades of work into their stories. Yours is shit because you think "what if humans.... BUT ELVES" is brilliant. You are full of yourself, not as smart as you think and worst of all have no respectf or an actual creative process. You are a michael bay- you think you can substitute actual effort with bright shiny colors and ten planets all crashing into each other.
And this wraps back around to age of sigmar since you clearly think that's the bees-knees in terms of creativity- it is also fricking shit because it's loud and in your face like Poochie, purely because the people who made it needed something fast and threw it together in a board room while smoking crack.
It is not and never will be a decent setting, your ideas are bad because you will never be a deep thinker or creative because you lack the capacity to actually respect and refine the process, you almost certainly cry about AI art and every bit of criticism you've ever received.
And most importantly the fact actual dwarfs remain the dominant and popular version and no one likes "10 foot tall dwarfs who are all female and have buttsex" proves your subversive ideas are unwanted on all levels- you can't even argumentum ad populum because your ideas are just worthless and the actual issue, as I have said, is that rather than get a clue and actually make something good you choose to keep shitting out sparklepony OCs and being That Guy for settings, always bewildered no one recognizes your erstwhile genius.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Naw, not reading that.
Then I'll make it clear in a single nice and concise point: Fantasy has always been bad. Warhammer fantasy was already a degradation of the earlier works. It's all bad, and the fact you insist on drawing arbitrarily lines and ignoring reality shows that you have zero understanding of what actually drew people to it in the first place. If you want to see fantasy that you would actually like, go read light novels.
Age of Sigmar is fun to me because at least it's over the top and farcical. It's the same reason why people like 40K even when Dune and Star Wars exists. It's one thing to have space orks, it's another to make them all look and act like a cross between mad max and football hooligans. If anything, the single biggest problem with Age of Sigmar is that it never had it's Rogue Trader esque "This setting is a total satirical farce" period to build upon.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>actually good fantasy
So not whf then, especially since it was basically a mishmash of anything that was vaguely popular at that time
>Fantasy is not allowed to be creative and involve actual fantasy >You can only do things that have been done before
Not a very creative and thoughtful person, are you?
Must be very confused and scared by new concepts
7 months ago
Anonymous
I mean... the WHFB setting wasn't amazing or anything, but compared to AOS it might as well be the crown israeliteel of fantasy literature. trying to excuse AOS by pointing out the flaws with Warhammer would be more than a little ridiculous.
>after 8 fricking years AoS still has not managed to create setting more beloved than a chinese mobile game
Bummer. Maybe the next 8 years will do the trick.
Do you really want an endless flood of moronic secondaries? AoS is nice because it's a game that people get into because they actually like the miniature wargaming hobby, but is commonly available unlike the /awg/s
it got a lot better once they started putting actual work into the writing, however first impressions matter and people will always remember aos lore for the mortuary factory. they should have put in the work from the start
Well, yeah. It should have been that way from the start. Shame it was completely half-assed by marketing execs instead of writers, just like the 1st edition pre-GHB rules.
it got a lot better once they started putting actual work into the writing, however first impressions matter and people will always remember aos lore for the mortuary factory. they should have put in the work from the start
>Anon can not handle anything actually fantastical
What a shame
I unironically love those 1sr edition maps
Pure manifested sovl
Wish they did more of them
>Anon is afraid of such levels of kino
And yes, they should make it all specifically for me
Ye unwashed masses are not known being able to appreciate the sovl
No need, we already get the better models and creative releases. 40k stays as the main money maker and we enjoy the good releases ad infinitum. I wish my LGS had an aos scene tho
Okey, but why do it in the first place. Do non white dudes actualy BUY any of the GW games in large enough numbers for the "improvments" to be good, even if they piss off so many people? What is wrong if someone wants a city state army to be a city state. The world is not London or NY, in majority of places people from same place look the same. Want an "ethnic" army sure make one, but not do the "every 3ed model has to be black and every 4th has to be female". I don't run around telling that any of the AoS games won't be good till they add Tatar or Turkmen representation to the game. At some point it becomes comical when every leader, officer, main pilot cpt, titan princeps (that isn't outright evil) is a woman. It breaks immersion on the same level, as if some cast Brad Pitt to be the father of Chaka Zulu. But what really boders people is that for some reason GW LOVES to make all the diverse stuff ugly. Big dude with ax looks like a russian with alcohol syndrom ? meh, maybe it is even climactic (he is from a "rogue/highway people" faction). But why the frick do they make women ugly. For every 1 everqueen there is like 20 models where one thinks that the design studio has to be made out of gay dudes and 300lb women with side cut and blue hair. Model from the 90s and 2000s have better looking women the stuff GW is making right now. And unless someone is crazy for nurgle, people prefare their stuff to look nice. And yes people can say that with a master level of painting and some resculpting etc all models can be saved. But that is not the solution for the avarge "Joe" table top painters who struggles to finish his 5 colour max army.
If the ethnic, women , minority models looked great no one would have problem with them. Mr Slanesh Fabio? Maybe some people have problems with the horns(easy to remove), but besides that the, no pun intended, model is perfect. Give us models like that and not another "is that a baboon"&"16yold boy or artmajor meth addict?"
its literally financial institutions withholding funding unless you meet their diversity quota and have a high enough ESG score. why the bankers are so obsessed with race is another question entirely
Isn't GW a private company? Never mind, what I think it is, that the GW execs don't care and GW employees think that 50% women and +50% non hetero man should be a thing. And up until people like me stop buying a box of custodes or marines every vistit to the store nothing will change. I just wished they would make nicer looking models. As I said, there are models done by hand of not marines/orks etc that look better comparing to what we have right now. And that doesn't mean that all AoS models or all models made by GW are ugly. The Lumineth Lords look (in their humanoid part of the army) great. the witch elves (minus the hair) are good too. The non human stuff looks nice, sometimes hit or miss, but at least it ain't attrocious. I mean maybe it is because I am an oldgay on Ganker, but can't the "pope" of humans not look like a baboon? The face was not sculpted by hand and GW "inspires" itself a lot in the models they made (vide the not Deathdealer as nurgle champion). Why not take the face of top best looking "black" super models and avarge it out and slam it on to the model? Want a bad ass "black sgt" ? We kids loved Roadblock. Take the face of S.Jackson and not put it on a mother fricking canoness, but some bad ass CoS dude. Shamans, Mystics, Scholars, put them in cities can be different from each other. It is the nature of fantasy to mix stuff, but don't make it ugly for no reason.
>Isn't GW a private company? Never mind, what I think it is, that the GW execs don't care and GW employees think that 50% women and +50% non hetero man should be a thing.
It's publicly traded but the share price has appreciated enough it shouldn't even matter whether they get ESG bucks. Rather if they cared, they'd franchise the shit out of everything instead of being stingy and making their own in-house stuff. Get a 2 billion dollar disney movie about Gaunt's ghosts or whatever.
The actual answer is demographics- all the deviantart sparklepony girls from 2000 grew up so now they're in art rooms making the art direction as the old boomers do not give their jobs to their sons, but someone else's daughter because they're horny as frick at 70.
And this is why stuff will forever get worse. Because it's not a 'fad', this is why Ganker itself is worse- it has been invaded by outsiders who are nothing like Old Ganker and want to claim or coopt what was good, but they lack the skill to do it because it was all dudes just having a laugh and now it's women with mental problems and people from india trying to claim "we were always here" when they weren't. And this applies to nerd hobbies in general. Women moved in because they could get attention from nerds and now it will forever be fricked up.
>The actual answer is demographics- all the deviantart sparklepony girls from 2000 grew up so now they're in art rooms making the art direction as the old boomers do not give their jobs to their sons,
That was always inevitable since inheritance doesn't work and their sons are too busy getting caught up in rape cases or taking drugs to bother learning how to draw. It's mostly new people, and what did they grow up with? Adventure Time, Avatar the Last Airbender, World of Warcraft, Friendship is Magic, and 2008 era internet. And those are the mostly normal people, the real weeb freaks that grew up with Touhou or Naruto exist as well.
>it has been invaded by outsiders who are nothing like Old Ganker and want to claim or coopt what was good
That is how the far right operates.
Diversity quotas are for employees not products you moron. You're supposed to hire real black people, not make fictional ones if you care about this score
Then why, in w40k, every 3ed marine is painted with a black face? Even in chapters, where they have a litteral genetic disorder that makes all of them "white".
But what for? If they aren't playing the game, then why do it ? Do they think they have a legion of 12y old dudes they can train to accept it? Because if yes then they are wrong. Their Clients were 12y old 20 years ago, or more. All GW games have horrible player retention, it has always been so. Meaning that even if someone gets an edition of "representation" they will be gone before it becomes normalised. Plus because a lot of people get burned on GW games, it actualy can have the opposit effects. Some people may think that all GW does is "diversify" instead of sitting down and fixing their faction rules or giving them the unit they want.
Because when you want funding to build a new warehouse and factor you go to the bank and when its a 20 million dollar project the loan officer goes "hmmm whats your environmental score? whats your diversity and inclusion score?" and that literally effects the money youll get.
ESPECIALLY in Bongland.
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7 months ago
Anonymous
why does the bank care about stuff like that though? It doesn't bring them more customers. Worse if they do invest in to a progressive project there is a high chance that they end up with something like the last Toy Story or the Marvel movies of last few years. And I am sure the head of the bank do not care for an excuse from a lower ranking official, that he lost money for a good cause.
>It doesn't. It pisses off a tiny group of subhumans that are 1: Not good fans and nobody wants. 2: Are sociopathic freaks that don't buy anything and feel morally correct in doing so. 3: Are such a nonexistent increase in profit margin that any increase made by pissing them off would be a net positive.
But it does piss people up. When you want to start and army, and you have to then fix the heads etc you get the fine cast and liquid finecast effect.
>Nothing is wrong with that. (Even though 1: It wasn't. 2: AoS doesn't take place in the middle ages). This is literally the most fricking insane subhuman friendly game possible. Swap out the head if, like the insane subhumans in this thread, you think it's a black phenotype.
But it is not just the paint. They make them look "diverse" and ugly on top of all things. If the CoS "pope" had the looks of Naomi Camble there would be fewer problems. Are you telling me that puting samuel jacksons face on a canoness is not a problem? And the "just switch" well I covered that. GW stuff already costs premium telling people that they just have to pay extra to fix a product is not going to make them happy.
>If you want to paint everybody in your army white and pretend you are larping as what you imagine a medieval European city was like.
I don't have to imagine. I wrote my masters about "XVIthe century tatar nobility under the reign of Sigmuns August the Second in Druskiejniki".
7 months ago
Anonymous
>But it does piss people up.
No, it pisses off subhumans. Not actual people.
>But it is not just the paint.
Then swap out the heads.
>Are you telling me that puting samuel jacksons face on a canoness is not a problem?
No, not really. Not my first choice, that tends to be the helmet.
>GW stuff already costs premium telling people that they just have to pay extra to fix a product is not going to make them happy.
Again, stop using the term "people". No actual person has a issue with this.
>I don't have to imagine.
Ah, you have a time machine. Then go back in time and shoot Hitler or something.
>Heh, I'll reply to these stupid /misc/ poster chuds. That'll show em. >good thing I went to my sociology class and listened to my favorite twitch streamer today >gets BTFO'd by the chudsters with facts and logic
many such cases
>Chuds >Owning anything
A flea can never oppose a lion.
>No. They do not. Genes don't work that way anyway.
You're confusing genes in general with the non-genetic brain damage you have from hitting your head too hard.
>You're confusing genes in general with the non-genetic brain damage you have from hitting your head too hard.
No. You just fundamentally don't understand how genens work.
>Afircan DNA and therefore bonestructure, IQ, risk of genetic disease like sickle cell anemia, does not come from their parents and is not heritable >If you have pale skin you are not a pale skin african, you are 100% a white man and race is only skin deep
homie you went full moron
>African Dna
Not a thing.
>and therefore bonestructure, IQ, risk of genetic disease like sickle cell anemia, does not come from their parents
Correct. Mostly because that's now genes work.
>>If you have pale skin you are not a pale skin African, you are 100% a white man and race is only skin deep
There is no such thing as being white or African. It's all memetic nonsense for people with zero understanding of actual biology.
find me a photo of one. >black parents
Are you impling genes passed on by BLACK parents wont be in their offspring and GENES arent heritable?!!??! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
>Are you impling genes passed on by BLACK parents wont be in their offspring and GENES arent heritable?!!??!
There are no black genes.
>find me a photo of one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Portr%C3%A4t_Joseph_Goebbels.jpg
Guy looks like a fricking rat person.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Not reading your post, brain damaged mass replier.
nah it is just halfasses pandering, nobody complains about kathay in warhammer fantasy just give them their own wakanda faction already bust stop crowbaring them into every other faction
but you wouldnt want that because then you would see how much people would really care
Correct. But you forget most companies are incompetent and only do things half assed.
With that said though, diversity one way or another is a total non issue and people are deluding themselves if they think ESG score are even remotely relevant.
But then why have them as dwarfs at all? Why can't they just be normal humans, who like wine?
It starts to sound like my niece, which tries to find a new disorder for herself every new semester.
Why can't dwarfs be dwarfs, men be men etc ?
>Why can't dwarfs be dwarfs,
Because the genre is called "Fantasy" and not "I read Tolkien when I was 10 and never had a creative thought in my head since then".
You've NEVER had a creative thought though, moron. Tolkein worked and so did all his contemporaries because they were educated men creating worlds based on obscure myths and dead languages. Your shit SUCKS because it's a fricking child who grew up in that world and said "I HATE IT ALL, SO I'M MAKING BLACK TRANNIES IN YUGIOH". You're not creative at all, you're just one of those tards on twitter crying "everyone only wants to read books by old white men instead of by a young latinx worman", not recognizing your shit sucks.
You have no education
You have no basis
You have no imagination
You just think shiny colors and ruining existing things=creativity, you are the anti-creative.
>Tolkein worked and so did all his contemporaries because they were educated men creating worlds based on obscure myths and dead languages.
Correct. Everything since then has been a degradation. Fantasy as a genre is bad and it's inability to actually escape the Tolkien mold is evidence of that. Well, that and Isekai existing.
>Your shit
Define "My shit". If you mean Age of Sigmar, then 1: Not the creator, Skaven would have gotten a update already if I was. 2: Age of Sigmar is derivative as frick.
>You just think shiny colors and ruining existing things=creativity, you are the anti-creative.
And you meanwhile are totally mentally insane.
Tolkien’s dwarfs are dwarfs because of a specific basis in prior folklore of creatures called dwarfs, not an arbitrary uncreative attachment to fantasy meme terms which is what you’re defending. Making something that are nothing like the cultural contexts attached to dwarfs and then calling them dwarfs is not creativity, it’s anti-creative fart huffing subversion
>Tolkien’s dwarfs are dwarfs because of a specific basis in prior folklore of creatures called dwarfs,
Dwarfs, in the modern fantasy sense, where effectively created out of whole cloth as a stand in for israelites in the Hobbit. Not a very subtle stand in either. They have frick and all to do with Germanic dwarfs. Hell, the very term Dwarf might be a mistranslation.
> Making something that are nothing like the cultural contexts attached to dwarfs and then calling them dwarfs is not creativity, it’s anti-creative fart huffing subversion
Again, that's what Tolkien did.
Even the Kharadron Overlords are, in their own way, not so much a subversion as much as a refinement or evolution of the traditional idea of a Dwarf. As for beardless dwarfs. The only example I can think of is Varric in Dragon Age. Where the entire point is that he is outside the rest of, already clearly established and very traditional, dwarf culture. It's like stumbling across a British man in Japan dresses like a Samurai. The clear disconnect is meant to draw the attention of the audience.
>. Do non white dudes actualy BUY any of the GW games in large enough numbers for the "improvments" to be good, even if they piss off so many people? >So many people
It doesn't. It pisses off a tiny group of subhumans that are 1: Not good fans and nobody wants. 2: Are sociopathic freaks that don't buy anything and feel morally correct in doing so. 3: Are such a nonexistent increase in profit margin that any increase made by pissing them off would be a net positive.
>What is wrong if someone wants a city state army to be a city state.
Nothing is wrong with that. If you want to paint everybody in your army white and pretend you are larping as what you imagine a medieval European city was like (Even though 1: It wasn't. 2: AoS doesn't take place in the middle ages). This is literally the most fricking insane subhuman friendly game possible. Swap out the head if, like the insane subhumans in this thread, you think it's a black phenotype.
>At some point it becomes comical when every leader, officer, main pilot cpt, titan princeps (that isn't outright evil) is a woman.
They aren't. We've gone from "literally basically zero female models" to "something almost resembling but not quite a 50/50 parity". Oh, and again, nobody cares. Buy a figure of John Snow and glue him to a toy chimera if you can't stand the idea of a woman being in charge of your army.
> It breaks immersion on the same level, as if some cast Brad Pitt to be the father of Chaka Zulu.
It doesn't. Actors are actors. When I go to a theater show I don't spend my time being annoyed the British guy playing Julius Ceasar doesn't actually look like a Roman. Romeo and Juliet was originally cast with men only and nobody gave a frick. People that think this way are insane subhumans.
>But what really boders people is that for some reason GW LOVES to make all the diverse stuff ugly.
When the frick has GW ever made a model pretty? Even canon "beautiful" characters all look ugly as sin.
>They aren't. We've gone from "literally basically zero female models" to "something almost resembling but not quite a 50/50 parity". Oh, and again, nobody cares. Buy a figure of John Snow and glue him to a toy chimera if you can't stand the idea of a woman being in charge of your army.
Anyone who cares about in system realism does. You can explain chaos with chaos, Elves with magic. But humans are humans. And in human armies there were/aren't anywomen in line units.
>It doesn't. Actors are actors. When I go to a theater show I don't spend my time being annoyed the British guy playing Julius Ceasar doesn't actually look like a Roman. Romeo and Juliet was originally cast with men only and nobody gave a frick. People that think this way are insane subhumans
There is a WORLD of difference between Charles Gray playing Julius Cesar, and Will Smith doing it.
>Romeo and Juliet was originally cast with men only and nobody gave a frick. People that think this way are insane subhumans.
because female "actresses" were considered a form of prostitute. Yet if you look who played Juliet in the plays in the lets say the times of mr Shakespear, then you will find out that non of them were 30 or 40 year old man.
>When the frick has GW ever made a model pretty? Even canon "beautiful" characters all look ugly as sin.
What the frick are you talking about. Teclis, Tyrion, Gotrek and Felix all look the way they should. Melekiths mom and her brood. The everqueen. Ariel. All perfectly well made models. The old twins and the new twins. Same. And then the human faction comes and it looks as if the models were done by a british art major who has a UK view on middle ages aka their country was shit, small and unimportant in those times, so they make it seem as if the middle ages were somehow bad, and the actual HISTORY started end XVIth century.
>Anyone who cares about in system realism does.
Ah yes, the system realism... In my high fantasy realms that are literally connected by giant warp gates protected by golden superhuman paladins.
>And in human armies there were/aren't anywomen in line units.
Here is a short list of things that were also not in real world armies, but can be in your age of sigmar army:
Elves.
Dwarves.
Mages.
Gryphons.
Dinosaurs.
Steam powered tanks.
Giant magical Luminarks.
Hydras.
Tree people.
Ents.
Giant turtles.
I could go on, but the point is made.
>There is a WORLD of difference between Charles Gray playing Julius Cesar, and Will Smith doing it.
There isn't. You are just insane.
>because female "actresses" were considered a form of prostitute.
And yet nobody was complaining that it was immersion breaking that there were no women in stories that generally involved them.
>then you will find out that non of them were 30 or 40 year old man.
The fact they are men, at all, is what matters. Do you really think they were all crossdressing to such a perfect extent that nobody realized they were men?
>"Its not happening." >"Okay, its happening, but its not a big deal." >"Okay its happening, but its a good thing." >"Oh my god, why are you complaining, you're weird"
I do love how 'advanced' feminism's goal is to make women suffer and be disposable in the same way as men (but 'only if they choose to be', and so 'equal but with superior options of choice')
and to erase female beauty standards as a 'masculine fantasy'.
Pretty women have no need other than social validation to invest in such an ideology, they have access to power in a manner out of reach to the angry feminist ideologue.
>goal is to make women suffer and be disposable in the same way as men
Women have always suffered. I'm sure that to cattle like men like you, having no freedom and most likely dying while giving birth is seen as a positive. But actual people disagree.
>but 'only if they choose to be', and so 'equal but with superior options of choice'
That is how men work.
>and to erase female beauty standards as a 'masculine fantasy'.
They are a memetic idea, and therefore of no value.
>It's happening
Again, what is?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yes everyone shut up, a man is speaking on behalf of women 😛 😛 😛
>That is how men work.
Implying he has any idea at all.
>>and to erase female beauty standards as a 'masculine fantasy'. >They are a memetic idea, and therefore of no value.
Mask off, thanks for that.
>>It's happening >Again, what is?
You gotta be 18 to post here, kid.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>On behalf of women
Everything I said is factual.
>Implying he has any idea at all.
I am a man. That is how men work.
>Mask off, thanks for that.
Again, why would I deny facts?
>You gotta be 18 to post here, kid.
And you have to be sane, yet clearly that isn't stopping you. Now answer the question.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Everything I said is factual.
ywnbaw
>I am a man.
X to doubt.
>Again, why would I deny facts?
Because you're too stupid to understand how badly the truth harms your position, you numbskull. Guess what genius... some WOMEN are not feminists either!
Doesn't that just blow your mind? "How could they be against their own best interests?"
Theres a difference between having compassion and empathy for women and being a male feminist, but I understand the distinction eludes you. Make sure to tell more women what a staunch feminist you are though, that will help you score ;P
> Now answer the question.
No, I do not consent. Learn to read, you mong.
IB4 "They just have internalized misogyny"
It's because we, as a society still haven't criminalized race. Just do what they did to deal with vampire superaction in Hungary, arrest anybody who engages in it.
It's not possible James. 40,000 is THE most popular wargame and trying to beat your own product is self defeating. You should be trying to make Age of Sigmar into it's own thing, and be happy that you get the sales that you do
>Heh, I'll reply to these stupid /misc/ poster chuds. That'll show em. >good thing I went to my sociology class and listened to my favorite twitch streamer today >gets BTFO'd by the chudsters with facts and logic
many such cases
Ok so which is it. You were totally making slav jokes about the those models or they are perma black coded and you can't just paint them white?
Make up your mind already homosexual
>Teclis, Tyrion, Gotrek and Felix all look the way they should.
Yes, none of them are pretty.
>Melekiths mom and her brood. The everqueen. Ariel. All perfectly well made model
Correct. Pretty though, they are not.
>And then the human faction comes and it looks as if the models were done by a british art major who has a UK view on middle ages aka their country was shit, small and unimportant in those times,
The middle ages was shit. Literally, in fact. Do you really think your average man of arms or levied peasant was a 10/10 handsome anime bishonen?
And regardless of the question of historical accuracy, in my over the top fantasy universe, "The dung ages" is a perfectly viable fantasy aesthetic just as much as say "Fire Emblem" is a viable fantasy aesthetic.
>so they make it seem as if the middle ages were somehow bad
Every time period that is not now is bad. If you disagree you should typing right now and join the amish.
They could do the thing that made 40k popular in the first place. Big narrative campaign decided by player battle reports, like the wars for armageddon or medusa.
It's not like anyone cares about the world of sigmar so they might as well have a campaign or two that decide the fate of Shyish or something.
replace sigmarines with someone else
tired of seeing these ugly gold fricks on every god damn box
sigmar gets so many wonderful minis, but they focus half the product on these disgusting bastards
it's a gonzo fantasy setting starring 10 foot tall lighting knights with magic powers traveling a multiverse of evil
and every fricking image has it taking place in some random dustball or a swamp or some shitty place like that. Despite the premise, somehow AoS continues to have LESS interesting background and settings than Fantasy's generic fantasy europe.
The most interesting thing they've done is make a glow-in-the-dark mushroom cave world, and that's just sad. Their best-selling adventure is a big spooky castle and it's the only location most people can name.
>Take a setting where fantasy humans were fighting off Ork mongols to the east, chaotic norsemen from the north, french knights to the southwest, vampires and beastmen celts within. Throw in other cool fantasy factions as well.
>Destroy setting, now the main human faction for the first 8 years are either chaos god empowered norsemen or god empowered lightning norsemen. Both have the same heavy infantry fighting style. The "good" humans are either faceless almost automatons, while the ones with personality are marvel superheroes. All the old humans from the previous setting were a filler army that barely got a glance of support.
>wait 8 years to finally release a good new interpretation of normal humans back into the game and focusing less on Warriors of Chaos vs Warriors of Lightning.
They are slowly trying to fix and improve the game, its taking a while, but we will get there.
The biggest problem with Age of Sigmar is that it sells itself entirely just on cool factor for the models, with little substance. It wants to not be a concrete setting and instead be like a Moba like Dota or League of Legends, but in miniature form. Your army has background lore, but just in the most vague and minimum effort needed. Why are you fighting? Well your army just walked through a portal and now your fighting air ship dwarves with your flying atlantis sharks in the realm of beasts for some reason.
>Your army has background lore, but just in the most vague and minimum effort needed. Why are you fighting? Well your army just walked through a portal and now your fighting air ship dwarves with your flying atlantis sharks in the realm of beasts for some reason.
Just like the old days. I never realized that sigmar was a return to form for GW and not some corporate cashgrab. Explains why all of the sigmar sculpts are so amazing.
This as a person that knew alot about 40k before doing the tabletop and going in the store in the past few months. AoS doesn't seem to know what its doing even after some reading, the Sigmarines are Sigmarines, and some models are awesome while others are trash. In other words, AoS has no consistency from a new person PoV and I can't trust it from a person who has experienced many hobbies. I'd rather try out Kingdom Death Monster with my friend then touch AoS, not to mention the AoS starter set looks like trash with whatever those skinny green things are.
40k is "grim dark sci fi future" its a dark timeline set 38000 years in our future, easy to grasp.
Fantasy was a fantasy version of europe and the world, with different fantasy races representing different cultures.
AoS is 9 magical realms that are infinite and always flowing with weird shit where Odin sends lightning men to fight weird fantasy factions that all have no real connection to each other.
Make the game's lore more graspable by people instead of just hoping the pretty models sell it.
People get space marines, its super humans fighting aliens and monsters. Stormcast need you to sit down and read a bunch of bad lore to understand what the frick is even going on.
>where Odin sends lightning men to fight weird fantasy factions that all have no real connection to each other.
I confess that I haven't made the effort to actually read AoS lore past it first year, but I would have imagined that after a decade this would no longer be the case. You sure about this? Sure the realms shit makes for a bad foundation, but there ought to be something worth calling a web of relationships and history between factions by now.
You can't. The silent majority of players who buy product hate the gay and fur shit that fantasy was turned into. No one wants to take part in a setting where water elves ride turtles into battle to fight dwarves flying in balloons made of metal. Its fricking stupid.
>silent majority >when wfb playerbase at its peak is a fraction of current AoS
You're a loud minority magnified here by the fact one of /tg/ jannitor is one of you and covers your ass
My biggest problem with AOS is that everything looks so plasticly clean, it might just be the GW paintjob, but most new lizardmen units look like they were designed by a lewd scaly artist, almost nothing looks rough or rigid anymore
Its too disconnected from real life historical themes and designs. Whenever I see 2 aos armies fighting, in my minds eye I just imagine them as cartoons. Theres no grit. 40k is starting to lack that grit as well, but theres still more than aos.
How about renaming Humans to Hoe'mo-aaahhnnneth?
Or maybe another super CREATIVE spin on a fantasy race? Like, hobbits but they're all telepaths and they have like, mushroom instead of feet, and they're called Gubygthpwon'kin.
They need to make an easily accesible map I, and other maptists, can oggle and play fantasy with. I've tried before to find a basic map of the AoS world, but it's this gay run around of realms, planes, continents, and they really just don't want to give me an answer which annoys me.
Give me a basic political map of AoS and I'll play.
A game going "mainstream" as 40K did is something more to be cursed, than to be celebrated. Doesn't matter what system it is, lets say for example, that Battletech had gone mainstream the way CyberPunk and 40Kek has, do you really want that amount of normie homosexuals and troons getting involved?
no >ugly women >coloreds except in their own factions like Cathar >dykes >trannies >blue or pink haircuts
yes >breasts >white men
and finally go back to Fantasy's 17th century Europe setting it was way cooler
Why didn't adding fantasy marines work is the better question. Saying they are all black tranoid womyn with mental illness haircuts isn't even an answer because they didn't even do that with Sigmarines at first.
It was a mixture of different things >Introudce Not space marines that have barely any lore to them and the lore that is currently available is all over the place and hamfists stormcast as the best thing ever in a setting with many different factions. >Rules were pretty shit and there was no points so people could not figure out how to have fun games which werent one side stomping the other. Also the rules were so bad that you could have any unit from any faction in your army causing people to just pick every good unit and put em together. >Death of a beloved cult setting so there was a very loud and unhappy voice which cause a lot of hate to be flung about everywhere at all times which drowned out any conversation of the game. This still happens >The release schedule was so damn slow. They were releasing one model a week and some weeks they released terrain and boks instead of models for the two starting armies that it took about 3 months for the first 2 armies to be fully released. >The models themselves were not that good. the stormcast were very blocky and had a very marmite feel to them as they didnt have time to grow on people like marines could and the khorne models were just over the top silly with names like "Bloodsecrator"
I have been a aos player since the very first edition but even then the first AoS edition was such a blunder and a fricking mess i don't even know how i managed to keep being a hobbyist through it. the silly rules were great
Thye are the most popular faction in AoS, so it did have some effect. Like 15% of it is just them, which isn't a lot compared to over 75% of 40k being Imperium, but still a siginifact lead in a game with like 20+ factions
>Why didn't adding fantasy marines work is the better question.
It worked somewhat, but first edition was a mistake and initial stormcast weren't that great.
Stormcast are the gayest shit. "Humans" without any of the things that make humanity aspirational. What's even the point? May as well be actual golems. And then they throw in a bunch of dumb shit like, oh, a woman who died giving birth to 7 children gets reborn as a stormcast to serve as tanks on the battlefield, just, what? Why? Because "mueh women"? Like, what's the theme here? Just stupid. Only shit they've got going for them is that they're the good guys and xbox hueg, but I think even the "good guys" part is a facade, if people read the fluff they'd hate them.
lol is that lore? did a woman become a stormcast after dying during child birth? that screams phil kelly cuckery if so and even if he wasn't responsible for it he probably suggested it over drinks at the local pub to whoever put their name on that
as someone who has read most but not all books i have not read this one so either its been vastly exagerated or is not true and just a way for trolls to spread hate.
A person is taken by ssigmar normally just before they die in battle while believing in sigmar. there are exceptions like a warlord taken from his people before a battle against skaven causing the them to lose as they no longer had their leader.
To be honest, anon's claim sounds more like a fanfic.
where do these female stormcast come from then? from being nurses, as if that were any different? I read on reddit there are even they/them stormcast now, hardly a surprise considering all the they/thems we see in 40k lately as well, gw is pushing the pozz hard. anyone saying that women can't become stormcast merely by existing is coping hard. the faction is a joke.
40k has pretty much always been popular though. Tactical marines have been their best selling kit for 50 years (until the Uru'kai). Something tells me we won't be saying that about Stormcast 50 years from now.
>big video game release thats actually good
>one or more of the big black library authors writes a good series or two about the IP
is wrong and moronic
The correct answer is add more space marines, obviously
Add more guns. American audience only cares about modern warfare
I agree, we should make Chaos Dwarfs an actual army with support.
God do I want a proper Big Hat Chaos Dwarf Faction. They should have two paths, one for slavery and genetics research, where you see stuff like pic related as well as modified slave troops, aka bring back the Black Orcs. While the other path should all be about high technology in the form of trains and connecting them together to the point that the old Squat Trainset is remade for them/and or if you really want to go AoS levels of pants on head moronic, have said train parts connect together to form a giant walking Gundam/Zoid.
for what purpose
So we can sell more
Imagine being such a simp for [brand] that you can't enjoy a product on its own merits, only as a means for making line go up.
around here if you do enjoy it for its own merits people will tell you thats not possible and you must be a shill and or a consoomer
To be fair if it has more success it gets more stuff that the consoooooomer would like
youre an investor or something?
Same way WotC keeps DnD going, pay a bunch of washed up YouTube trash to stream heavily-scripted normieslop to idiots.
Not possible, the setting is inherently unappealing and lacks the basic intrigue points that cause 40K to be popular. Nobody wants Slightly Dirtier Warcraft.
Good video games
>make the realms go through the industrial revolution
>make order very clearly the good guys while having them based off of nazi germany
>get all the edgelords who grew out of LOTR
>make a very accessible video game
>get all the people who wanted to get in but dont play table top
That's just warmachine, bro.
This is why AoS sucks kek.
>JUST MOVE THE TIMELINE AND THEN THEY'LL LIKE IT
Reminder
>both small penis cars
jelly
Why do you think about wieners when you see automobiles?
Probably mental illness.
coapy roasty
>poor seething tiny penis haver
lel
I dunno, give them big bulky armors and bolters, also skulls
>campaign book of the end times, that show the destruction of the realms and the death of the setting
>sigmar dies, long live sigmar!
>the age of sigmar is no more
>a new world is created, looks a lot like the og world
>skulls, guns, etc etc
>your new game is called Age of Warhammer Fantasy Battle
Fixed. Sales explode.
Fantasy itself didnt sell through
>either unaware or disingenuous of the sales for WFB from 3rd-7th edition
>didn't attend a local meta from 1998-2009
>unable to form an opinion entirely on his own, such as reading rulebooks and army books to determine, "wha happun" to the game
Yeah it turns out most semi-sentient people won't play a game that requires you to have a multiple units of 40 skeleton warriors, sold in boxes of 10 for $25 dollars, when you can play a game where you only need 10 space Marines in two squads of five, sold in boxes of 10 for $35. Sales were entirely reflective of customers rejecting a bad deal.
Maybe they did that to sell more? like nobody buing stuff for ages so incresing model count.....
the point is...if you dont give money to GW your game is done for ok?
no one buying models for game, because game too expensive requiring too many models -> old customers no longer buying new models, because too many new expensive models required to upgrade their force -> new edition of game requires larger army size, and price of models goes up -> no one buying models for game, because game too expensive requiring too many models
The circle repeats forever
I dropped all pretense of ever getting back into Warhammer when they halved the unit cost for Skeletons on top of increasing the price
GW is cancer and should die. Maybe Caville can buy it and go private after.
It sold fine, it just didn't have as large an audience as 40k. Tiny in fact.
Didn't help that each new battle tomb ruleset outdated the last updated armys book and some factions never get updates at all. Some units didn't even have models.
It did, ex-GW employees already confirmed Fantasy was killed off to artificially boost sales of AoS and ensure it was successful.
>balde not!Duncan spends an whole interwiev saying that fantasy was in the gutter
>at some point he said they dind't keep it on release-less "life support" to not confuse newcomers
>"see guys they killed it to boost AoS"
I love how you started making this talking points months after the video hoping people forgot what it was actually about
The fantasy model of army building, where you needed to buy hundreds of dollars of basic troopers before you could even start fielding the cool models was the problem.
It killed incentive to enter the game, because yeah, that new unit of Gryphon Knights for Empire looked great, but buying 120 infantry just to use them made them obscenely expensive for anyone looking to get into the game. It ended up being people who already invested in previous editions sitting on their same army's, just adding the new stuff when they got their update every 2-3 years. Around the end of Fantasy my local shops were just holding the new kits, because the actual armies just werent selling.
The Age of Sigmar army design works much better for factions where you need like 2-3 boxes of infantry, then get some cool elite units, maybe a monster or two, then a cool hero to be a centerpiece. Lets people buy into a faction with little prior investment. Why they felt the need to blow up a good setting with great factions already in it who knows?
Buying 120 infantry was MO just a few years back for AoS and they were selling unlike WHFB, with armies rivaling if not being larger sized than fantasy, just FYI. This was changed at end of 2nd when reinforcements system was introduced to curb army sizes.
The first edition of AoS was kind of crazy, that is true, everyone was also just using their older stuff for most of the factions. But the new factions they were throwing out in those early years were no where as crazy as before. Stormcast usually had 50-60ish models for an army, as did sylvaneth, Iron Jaws, really the only new factions that just spammed guys were the Blades of Khorne because you just wanted to spam Bloodsecrators and bodies, and the fire dwarves because they were so cheap.
They fixed the frick out of their release schedule and their rules by 2nd edition and while still buggy, its pretty ok in 3rd.
But for the past two editions, you did have factions which wanted to dump a hundred or more models, but there are plenty of easier factions to invest hobby wise into if you dont want to paint a hundred infantry.
Sylvaneth for longest time would spam full sized dryad armies (x30 per unit) while also spamming more on top from summoning. You also had CoS (not sure what they got now with the new book, been meaning to check), Skink armies, etc.
>
But for the past two editions, you did have factions which wanted to dump a hundred or more models, but there are plenty of easier factions to invest hobby wise into if you dont want to paint a hundred infantry.
That's true, but that's also true for Fantasy.
Yeah, those old summoning armies were a terrible mistake gameplay wise. Its a good thing they changed them.
Yeah, that's true. GW seems to always struggle with summoning, they had such an opposite problem in 40k with it too.
The problem is that either your giving one player free points of units, which is really hard to balance, or your making them start with less stuff on the board in games where going first usually gives you a huge ability to punish the opponent for not having everything on the table.
The current AoS Chaos factions do summoning pretty well, where summoning demons is usually a reward for doing the specific gimmick of that faction, so you have to put the work in while your playing instead of just having a wizard and suddenly you are playing a 2300point army against a 2000point army after the first turn.
This. There was a point in time in 2010s that Tactical Marines Squad box sold more than all fantasy models combined.
id build a beasts of chaos army right now if they weren't inundated with shitty finecast and metal figgers
One Page Rules has decent proxies if you're into that.
ill look into it. thanks man
The issue with AoS is that it appeals to exactly no one.
>weird fantasy esthetics, reminiscent of vg fantasy from the mid-2000's, now archaic
>lore and setting is so open ended, it doesn't drive the creative spark, lacking focus and clear parameters
>not rank and flank, removing those fantasy customers
>not quite skirmish, removing those fantasy customers
>never quite received a warm welcome from long-time customers, as it forced its entrance and it's birth came at the death of another long running product
>game is almost a decade old now, and has yet to find a core base of fans, continuing to alienate potential customers, worried about finding games
Who exactly is the targeted audience for this product? If a consumer base was identified, why do sales continue to under perform?
>removing those fantasy customers
>removing those fantasy customers
Those customers don't fcukign exist. Only other fantasy model line with any shred of popularity makes models for D&D.
this is exactly why AoS fails to perform exceptionally. you're now understanding those points.
>Who exactly is the targeted audience for this product?
GW paypigs suffering from the sunk cost fallacy.
Can a sunk cost fallacy exist when no one has touched this game since 2015? Only a single anecdote, however:
>regularly attend the #1 game store in my 3 million population city
>YU-GI-OH, MtG, Weiss Schwartz, 40k, Bolt Action, D&D, and even board game groups crowd the playing halls daily
>attending for 18 years, never once seen a game of AoS be played
>being Europoor
they sell way better than fantasy so AoS audicence is more real than Fantasy ones
Okay, so how does AoS sell better and become just as popular as WH40k?
noting can be WH40k, 40k has reach (wow lvls of popularity) noting in wargaming has never reach such lvl, 40k is special for that reason. AoS IS doing better than fantasy by a BIG margin and that is enoght for GW.
TLDR: noting can be as popular, 40k lvls of popularity in wargaming are not a target anyting can reach at this point.
>noting
Noted.
not even warhammer fantasy, and WHF did way worse than AoS so......
>noting
>lvl
>tldr on a one sentence, badly spelt and entirely wrong opinion
You have absolutely no idea how Aos sells as no individual product information has ever been made available you moron. Age of Mattel is so unwanted it has not had one single successful license deal in it's entire existence
Shitmar is the ONLY GW product that I have ever seen being marked down by 50% and STILL sat unsold on shelves you absolute fricking mong
>Who exactly is the targeted audience for this product?
People who are tired of 40k for various reasons (space marine fatigue, edition-specific bullshit, et cetera)
ive seen more 40refugees hop the fence to boltaction or other games, rather than into a different geedubs product.
Well I still wanted to be able to actually find a game in real life
And here is the problem. Of those that quit, those that make the jump to other games are a minority. Most people quiting w40k, are done with table tops. Sometimes for decades or for ever.
In order to make AoS a success GW would have to A act as if it not GW (impossible) B the setting would have to be of the type people care.
Right now AoS is an IP setting where stuff is made "cool" and "different' mostly for the sake of GW being unable to trade mark a high elf.
The worse part about the setting build up though, is that it will for a long time(in no small degree thanks to the success of the TW series) be compared to the lore of WFB. And I do not claim that WFB lore some pinacle of fantasy setting lore creation. It wasn't. But it was something that people had for a long time and it was full of stuff of things they recognise. Like Knights, 30y war germany, maybe tolkien different type of elves or surely you like dwarf that dwarf ? It is easier (and that is why it was done at first, with w40k too) to like something you already have positives views about. It is a lot harder to do stuff, like "see they are like space marines, but they aren't space marines" or "those are dwarfs, but they are crazy horse strippers now with females added too".
Also the setting "geography" doesn't speak to the regular autist that likes table top games. People like maps, history, stuff that they can follow and not multiple realms phasing through each other , random teleportation devices etc.
Now that doesn't mean that AoS can't create a fandom, and grow it. It will just take a lot of time, and unlike WFB, AoS does have non GW produced things it has to deal with. And those don't have to be super great either, the basic pick up gamer does an 180, when they hear about sesons list rebuilding and entry armies being +800$. Major popularity could take AoS decades.Question is table top gaming, in its physical form, produced by GW, exist the way it does now in lets say 20-30 years.
You'd be surprised about how little the lore actually matters. 90% of people didn't even know what space marines were beyond being part of the Imperium and fighting for the Emperor before 8th edition.
>You'd be surprised about how little the lore actually matters.
And then you go on to mention 8th, which launched at the peak of "star wars starting sucking," which brought in GW's new, #1 customer: The Previous Star Wars Fan Who Doesn't Like That Stuff Anymore (TM)
I agree with your, but we are talking here about a rise in popularity. Could GW make AoS a really good game ? In theory yes and in practics not really. But I assume that more popular means is being something like some normy looking at X and saying/thinking ah those are those fire slayers. You need a basic culture imput to get such a popularity. Lets take the example of w40k. It is the biggest, people Know it or Know of it. A GF/mother can one day say "ah those are those marine thingies". There is nothing similar for AoS, or worse they can think that stormcast are marines.
To use your example. People (as in those outside of the table top hobby) know of marines and some memes (like the Trump God Emperor one). People know nothing about AoS, and it is not because of GW support, not enough books, not enough pages of lore. GW made all those things. The problem is that the AoS setting right now is not that interesting. People that want better games, more games will go to other systems (and not all will be w40k) those looking for a "fantasy" itch probably won't pick up a full AoS army as their thing of choice either.
Now if GW was smart they would put more focus on that not kill team/not necromunda game they have for AoS. And add to them some "regular" humans and not just 200 shades of chaos, with then some non human races.
The game needs a "Gotre+Felix" aka the characters that walk you through the world. And those books have to be writen not just for normies, but they have to be good enough that people want to read more of then.(what WFB books did in the past) they have to have that "what are those X, that Gotrek slew this book about". Right now AoS feels (besides the obvious IP protection, for which WFB died), as setting lore is, as Witcher seson 3 or Wheel of Time , only in the TV script form, and not the book.
And again, can AoS keep a fandom , that is loyal and constant ? sure. But so those run with wife on your back or knife throw .
>Now if GW was smart they would put more focus on that not kill team/not necromunda game they have for AoS. And add to them some "regular" humans and not just 200 shades of chaos, with then some non human races.
Go back and do some research into the ads for AoS from about 2015-2018. They went hard in the paint for it. It was everywhere, and was that 'new hotness.'
It went about as well as you'd think, and standing where we are now, it went as just as well as you now know.
Oh over they did. There were models planned, there were mold bought, there were slots for it and they wanted/had to kill WFB, because it was impossible to protect. But even then look how long it takes GW to remove the old from w40k and fantasy. For w40k it is 3 editions, for WFB it was "we will have something new next month, end times enjoyers"... AoS drops.
Also I know that in the age of group work, participation thropies etc People may think that just because someone did a lot of work , it somehow matters. AoS was SAVED by the fans, if it wasn't for the fans point systems and comps it would have died. It had a rough start anyway.
But again you are trying to get a slightly bigger pie slice, from one that is already mostly locked in for the w40k fans. The proposition her was how to make the AoS game more popular, and not how to make it more popular for w40k players. Because that is going to be a losing fight, almost always (as I am a firm beliver that no things are too big to fail, in the end).
The people that ACTUALY play dont care for the lore
And the number of them is small. I know that AoS was the second game for sometime (sells wise), but the difference in size between it and w40k WORLD WIDE, is gigantic.
The question asked here was not what to do to keep the people who are already there . Just don't make the armies too crazy in cost, no w40k "balance" differences, churn but not to slow, nor too fast. Updating armies, which is probably the only thing GW has problems with.
But we are talking here about making AoS popular, or at least more popular.
Then just make more video games, 40k is 90% secondaries that dont even buy models.
See it is not that simple. WFB was easy to port in to games about rank and files of models. Spells just become "orders" and the rest is just stats and graphic desing. You can make W40k in to some sort of Xcom clone. You can make it an RPG. With AoS it is a lot harder, because you both miss the popularity AND the instant recognition. Ah so those are LotR elves/Celts/etc is easier to hook a player|(and remember the Game has to make money, some company paid license for it), then something that needs explanations that requier you to sometimes go back to WFB to explain stuff.
everyting is and excuse to you. Just make a good slash and w/e fighting game and put a good lore on it and make diferent story paths for order, caos, destruction and death......
you dont need a lead to start the popularity train, just a good product and the character you put on it will be popular (yes, people is just that simple, Gotrek and felix are boring characters doing boring stuff but people love it)
Anon, I spend my life developing marketing strategies for actual companies, not at a collage. I am not saying everything I did in my life was super succesful, but IMO, that is even better. I could write pages about how/why Coca Cola Co failed in certain countries or parts of the world.
And yes everything is an excuse when you have to propose it to your boss. They hate new things, they love to remove stuff, Add stuff, especialy new stuff no so much. And by the way they are right. Ideas are great, but you can't garentee they will work. Gotrek and Felix, to use the WFB example, were loved/liked before the books and before GW becoming big. Just like both main GW games. There was stuff to build on. I don't think Gotrek and Felix were boring. They were too popular(in sales numbers) to be boring. Now they could be boring to you, but I can tell you that they weren't boring to the company and the people that bought the books over and over again (especialy as they also were translated in to multiple languages, that is never done to non popular things. too high cost and too high risk)
And if "Just make a good" had power over reality all of us in marketing would be living castles full of Thai and Nam lady bois.
Well nobody played it because of player base degredation, which was the result of GW policy. You can't have edition after edition of bad choices (and I mean really bad one "Lets make minimal game used units ~40-60 model size and make the boxes 10-16/20 model sized") and expect something to grow. Now maybe this was a councious choice. Milk the super fans till you have a replacment product ready, is something that companies do. It is real, although 2-3 editions is a bit "long" in a luxury goods market. But that is more of an academical argument, we can have it here, but I think people would be bored by it. You choice anon.
Or to make it less Too Long to READ
WFB didn't die, WFB was killed.
It was killed cause the GAME was beyong saving at that point. Yout think they take that decision just like that? I can only agree that the transition to AoS was rushed, if they make it super slow and change the lore slowly from a planet to the realms the WHF fans wont be still crying 8 years later. AoS was a good decision, game is way healtier than ever , lore is getting better and the game system is fun. haters are just people that read memes or the constant biching of old fans that wont move on.
Anon if you don't release armies, don't fix balance, make crazy (From consumers point of view) decision on how many models are needed tot be played, then any game can be killed. Make a marine army requier 140-160 models to play and you will kill w40k.
Would help if you actually played during said era, WHFB 8e was having constant model releases and balance adjustments before suddenly getting axed in midst of releases. Good portion of AoS are just 7e and 8e Warhammer Fantasy releases.
>and balance adjustments
>Anon if you don't release armies
Dieing corpse of wfb was getting more releases than AoS does, mostly because AoS has to sell all the warehouse clogging junk wfb shat out in those years when nooone bought anything from it
dude, WHF maybe popular and shit when it was alive but nobody played/buy the stuff. GW does not care how much people like it to be there or talk of it if nobody is buying the models. Maybe totalwar wa a succes JUST because WHF just die and people wanted to check a videogame about a death game that created alot of drama.
It's been almost a decade. AoS has made no noticable, meaningful traction within the tabletop community. It was doomed from the start. Why do I say this? Warhammer Total War is not AoS Total War. AoS has no appeal. It appeals to no one.
Suggesting, "How do we make AoS popular" misses the point entirely. You can't, because it lacks appeal. Take Blizzard Entertainment. They sit around, dump millions into development, and hire top tier talent. Yet WoW won't gain subscribers or make them the money it did from a decade ago. Blizzard is stuck bashing their head into the wall, missing the point: WoW appeals to no one anymore. The aesthetics are ancient and passe. MMOrpg is a dead and boring concept.
AoS will continue to be that GW product that comes up in your advertisement feed every so often, and you'll continue to "blindly" see it and scroll on.
Selling a shit sandwich is hard, because the market for a shit sandwich is basically not existent. Add all the ingredients you want, hire all the finest chefs, run the biggest Superbowl ads. The main ingredient is shit, and shit appeals to no one.
>AoS will continue to be that GW product that comes up in your advertisement feed every so often, and you'll continue to "blindly" see it and scroll on.
Or "hey this flesh eater kit has some cool bits I can use to make a kitbashed Khrave alien detachment for Dark Eldar with clawed fiend rules".
>Or "hey this flesh eater kit has some cool bits I can use to make a kitbashed Khrave alien detachment for Dark Eldar with clawed fiend rules".
I feel directly called out
>MMOrpg is a dead and boring concept.
I wouldn’t say MMOs are dead so much as Blizzard’s particular way of handling MMOs are dead.
I mean, FF15 is basically the last big hoorah of the classical mmo genre and most people I know play it for the story more than the MMO aspect.
Ah yes, classic MMO FF15
Sorry, fourteen.
I don't understand your point when AoS is successful, it's second most popular and selling wargame on the market. The only stuff that ever rivals it is star wars+marvel boomers playing Shatterpoint+MCP. It's spread enough that most people who play wargames will have both 40k army and an AoS army.
>second most popular and selling wargame on the marke
Please, I really need you to understand this for the sake of this conversation and debate: miniature wargaming is a niche, within a niche. Games Workshops "market share" is nothing compared to the money say, women's cosmetics brings in.
When you analyze Games Workshops market share and dominance, you need to be aware of what the competition looks like at the production/advertisement level. Success for any company will be small and look tiny
>Please, I really need you to understand this for the sake of this conversation and debate: miniature wargaming is a niche, within a niche. Games Workshops "market share" is nothing compared to the money say, women's cosmetics brings in.
this isn't unique to you, but this is an extreme example, I'm genuinely interested in what the frick goes through somebody's head when you adopt pompous know-it all tones to state the obvious in such a ridiculous way
what the frick, I'm dumbfounded
the wargames market is a smaller market than women's cosmetics.... no fricking shit!
is it simply "only pretending to be moronic" trolling? i'm baited if so, is it a coping strategy for being one of the autists on the wrong side of the IQ curve, believing yourself to have, and writing in a way that imitates, insight and intelligence?
genuinely bizarre
>he still doesn't get it
there's nothing to get besides what compels somebody to think "wargaming is a smaller market than women's cosmetics" is worth time to type and read
I am genuinely interested in what the frick goes through somebody's head
Have you considered that you're just stupid? From where I'm standing the guy is trying to make a point to you about market capture and it's just fascinating watching you run into a brick fricking wall...
i am stupid in many ways but not in the way you think
That is like saying that a dude who is 165 is high, because he is second tallest in class, but the first dude is 194.
AoS has practicaly no normy recognition. W40k has it.
If your goal for growth is just to canibalise other games, then with the cost of GW armies, you will always be at a lost position, because the "casual lore ignorer and game enjoyer" when faced with what ever he should get an extra w40k army or AoS army, will more often pick the more popular one.
It taken till tail end of 8th edition (if not 9th) for 40k to have normie recognition, but that didn't make it unsuccessful. It's not cannibalizing other games to say that AoS is far from unsuccessful in the market, especially one as congested as wargaming.
No, 8th and 9th. was WORLD WIDE recognition, 8th and 9th was the time, when movie stars showed their armies (and yes I know Robbn Willams loved WFB orcs and had and O&G army), it was the time where you suddenly were mind blown that X streamer just happened to have a w40k army and Y youtber suddenly created a hobby channel etc.
w40k had recognition before. AoS has nothing like that.
Well of course, but we can treat it like a logic puzzle.
WHFB only got recognition after it was gone and creative assembly butchered the setting to make their vidya to popularize it
It's third now, behind battletech
>Question is table top gaming, in its physical form, produced by GW, exist the way it does now in lets say 20-30 years.
GW will definitely transition to being a company that makes 3D printers with plastic and scans for models that people can print themselves and play a Warhammer game using rules they subscribed to online, which change weekly so as to confound people who would normally just pirate them. GW stores will become gaming areas and collectible shops selling the warhammer funkopops to 65 year old zoomlennials reminiscing the good old days of the 2010s, before WW3 caused Poland to spontaneously be vaporized while China split into china 1 and 2 and the USA annexed mexico to become the Mutt Imperium, a land where everyone has a fake tan and broccoli hair so you don't know what race anyone is.
Their paint will still be overpriced.
Wrong AoS has a strong core audience at the expense of long time gorgs and youtube addicted zoomers who reeeee about it killing old world.
Fantasy died so AoS could run. Its rocky start hindered it but were settling nicely into 3rd now. The game just needs a good dawn of war of its own to breakout past the tabletop.
Absolutely delusional you paint huffing moron, 3rd edition killed it and there have been multiple Dawn of War equivalents, thing is though they were all set in the Old World, no one wants to touch your infantile shit that looks like a LoL rip-off from ten years ago with a barge pole. gaymar has ben around for a decade and it has had exactly zero impact while the setting it was supposed to replace has only grown in popularity
>3rd edition killed it
>AoS is stronger and gets more attention from GW than ever with 4th ed on the horizon
>going strong
source?
Hot elves (female)
Hot knights (female)
Hot rogues (female)
Hot demon girls
Unironically
Ya that'd do it
It’s a mystery
post your models
This lad was sad until it change to a round base....now It has seen battles
I don't want that. AoS is at the ideal level of popularity, to me.
>AoS is at the ideal level of popularity
>niche within niche
>only max spergs at the tables
>gamer ages are 11-15y/o, or 46 y/o, there is no other
>starter sets rotting on shelves, the soulless sigmarine face staring hauntingly for all time, potentially gaining toy story 2 level sentience
Super fun product and game line.
It's the third best selling wargame, it was second for a while but GW has been fricking around with it for 2 years causing Battletech to surpass it
Those stats are only from one third-party reseller
We do not have all the stats from all the stores, most importantly those run by GW
So it most likely still is the 2nd most selling/popular one
Hello, im from the year 2010 and i bring great news!
GW is in decline and will soon be overtaken by Mantic/Warmahordes/Battletech etc
1998 here, we are switching to white metal and prices will stay low after a tiny bump
Let it be the fun one
Back in 2e sigmar was full of customization and fun rules. Each army had tons of spells, artefacts, subfactions, command traits, and you could get more by declaring a realm of origin. There was a lot of /yourdudes/ potential and lots of fun rules and scenarios. It wasn't the best balanced game but somehow managed to be more balanced than 40k.
Then the tourneygays came. 3e followed
Now realm of origin rules are gone. Subfaction rules got compressed to a single sentence each, and most artifact, command trait and spell lists got gutted. On top of that the setting has been stuck in a single realm that has been barely explored. It was hyped to be the Age of Destruction but nothing has happened. We're in a boring status quo in a setting we barely know.
It could have been 40k's more fun little brother but now it's as boring as 40k trying to copy it.
If fun meant popular bloodbowl would be GW's top seller.
Bloodbowl is a very small niche
Sigmar when it was fun (2e) was 2nd best top seller, now that it's bland (3e) its popularity is falling
It had the niche of "40k, but fun and for casuals" and had a large community to sustain of 40k runoff
There's never been any real correlation between success and quality where GW games are concerned. If you sat down and listed geedubs' top 10 rulesets, you'd probably have 8 that aren't even in print anymore and 2 that are relegated to 2nd rate specialist games reboots. meanwhile your highest seller is 40k, a game with rules that are rushed out on regular rotation as glorified advertising pamphlets.
>Then the tourneygays came. 3e followed
And now the entire game balance is being tinkered by the sales.
Fresher armies are getting armies are getting power up hand jobs, while the remnants of whfb (except for sog) are give copypasted rules, that are even worse than they used to be in 2nd edition.
"We" don't.
Make it not complete shit.
So basically not having it be age of sigmar.
Much of the groundwork is already done, it's already designed for low denominator appeal and with big shiny posterboys. All they'd need would be for the factions to be actually appealing and to have any lore for people to get into at all. 40k shows that the lore doesn't even have to be good or consistent, there just needs to be more than puddle-depth of it.
Make less dogshit moronic models like pic rel and make more good ones like the Abhorrent Archregent, Harbinger of Decay, and Saurus Scar-Veteran on Aggradon
It's literally that simple.
that is a great model, you mongoloid.
Euthanizing you would be a mercy.
then i wouldnt have to listen to your shit takes, i agree
>WoW shoulders to the max, extremely goofy top-heavy design, moronic cow theme for a not!high elf faction
This model is one of the worst GW has released in the last decade, you're either mindbroken or a shill.
I dunno, sigmar is visually quite nice, but it has no cohesive whole. Also the stupid, stupid renaming. Orks are orks, just them orks. Also elves. I know you can't copy right them but for fricks sake you are games workshop, you steal for a living.
But visually, you have the best orks ever, some of the best undead ever sculpted to the point that DnD players are ordering soulblight gravelords models and some other nicer stuff, the demons and cultists are the best yet, but somehow many don't have crossover rules like the old fantasy demons used to with 40k.
The daemons still have crossover rules. The only daemons that don't are Vashtorr who is 40k slop anyway and I guess the two new slaanesh greater daemons who are tied more into the lore of the setting
Just demons was never very popular, One of the hits of AoS is making each god a single codex and each codex is a mix of mortals and demons
Gaunt Summoners are also AoS-only daemons, and I think that they could work in 40k (if they remove the "there are only nine of them at a time" thing).
>but it has no cohesive whole.
I somewhat agree. Though I do think it's starting to get there now that most of the ranges have been updated.
>Orks are orks, just them orks
Orks are orcs you moron. You're praising a rename and not even realise it.
>age of sigmar
>sigmar jobs to archaon again
why can't he just get a win
Sigmar never fought Archaon in the actual Age of Sigmar, he jobbed in Age of Chaos
AGE of sigmar starts way after the Jobbing, It start when sigmars deploy the stormcast for the firts time and that was waaaaay after Archaon won for a second time. 90% of the realms where just Caos Domain and the firts edition and lore plot points where all about holding some gates and creating the Main cities.
People say that there's no love or passion left in GW, and that it's only soulless cashgrabbing. Which is mostly true, but it is sort of heartwarming how through all of this the writers are still wanking Archaon against all sense and logic.
forcefully crossover the two into one game and setting
Remove double turns, introduce alternating activation.
>How do we make Age of Sigmar as popular as Warhammer 40k?
>rules improvements
Anon do you think 40k got where it got by having good rules? Because 40k hasn't had those in a while.
you don't
So much overthinking of such a simple topic
AOS has shit lore and shit rules and shit models designed to appeal to 15 year olds who play league. Its simultaneously too simple to retain an adult audience's attention and too bloated (and poorly balanced as a result) to retain the attention of children
So just like whats happening to 40k then?
Fugg the dumbass releases of the last 5 years, I hate Marines+ with a passion.
So at least they provoked some kind of emotion, I guess.
>AoS 1.0
WoW pauldrons and 2000s era out of date style
>AoS 2.0
Sidecuts and dykes. Women stopped shaving the 1 side of their head in like 2013
>AoS 3.0
Blaaaaaaaaack people after BLM is already gone and scammed everyone
AoS is always years behind the trend
>Blaaaaaaaaack people after BLM is already gone and scammed everyone
Nobody cares. You can paint everybody white if you want.
>You can paint everybody white if you want.
i guess you havent seen this model phenotype
All the Caucasian paint tone in the world wont make that thing non-african
Phenotypes on toy soldiers are meme. GW already painted similar features white in Underworld and you moron didn't even notice, because your npc brain can't think beyond official paint sheme
So we've gone from
>it doesn't exist and you're crazy for thinking it does
To
>it exists and you're crazy for noticing
But you didn't notice. Axe guy has a bigger flatter nose than the canonical black guy from Hexbane Hunters, yet you didn't say a word about those features when they were painted white there, because you have to be shown them painted black to notice you low iq mongrel
>but you didn't notice!!!
Then why did all those threads calling this guy a white black/slav exist, you commie revisionist?
So suddenly you CAN paint the same phenotype white and it's just a slav? And who is the revisionist here
>he doesn't know
There's been tons of slav jokes about
too. You'd know that if you weren't some gishgalloping politihomosexual only here to fight the culture war.
>slav jokes
Jokes? Those are statements of fact
>I cant tell that FLAT nosed BRILLOPAD hair'd kid is a black kid
homie you moronic. A genetic defect in your melanin doesnt make you white all of a sudden
idk I mostly get mad at this because you know it ist just plain pandering by GW and the worst shit is it actually works, when you start pointing out that the cities of sigmar look like a medival college campus flyer, suddenly you are the butthole for pointing out the obvious pandering
It goes back to
like always. They try to gaslight you into not noticing and then guilt trip you when you do point it out.
>Phenotype
Not a thing. Nobody looks at the Catahan models and assumes "Clearly, this is black" even though their features are equally over the top.
No, you fricking moron, it doesn't exist. Nobody looks at the Sly Marbo model and assumes "Clearly, this has a white phenotype."
I've seen people like that in real life. You are a subhuman.
>I've seen people like that in real life
yes. they are albino.
they still have black parents, that dudes kid (if his wife is also african) there is a high chance his defect wont pass on, and his kids will be black too just like him you fricking moron.
>yes. they are albino.
No, I've seen actual 100% pure aryan white west europe with over the top facial features, it happens. People look differently from each other.
>they still have black parents,
No. They do not. Genes don't work that way anyway.
find me a photo of one.
>black parents
Are you impling genes passed on by BLACK parents wont be in their offspring and GENES arent heritable?!!??! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
>Afircan DNA and therefore bonestructure, IQ, risk of genetic disease like sickle cell anemia, does not come from their parents and is not heritable
>If you have pale skin you are not a pale skin african, you are 100% a white man and race is only skin deep
homie you went full moron
>No. They do not. Genes don't work that way anyway.
You're confusing genes in general with the non-genetic brain damage you have from hitting your head too hard.
>You can paint everybody white if you want.
Thanks, I always do.
Age of Sigmar is like taking something interesting and cool and then dropping it into a river of human shit.
I think a softer reboot would have been for fantasy to be honest. Like a major time skip but still a story that takes place on the old world. The biggest problem Age of Sigmar has is that coming up with a new setting is hard.
*Have been better for fantasy
Yeah, more actual WFB would've been way better. Grimgor beats down on Archaon, crisis averted and everybody can go home know, and then a few hundred years later, everything is mostly the same but different in a few key ways. And a lot of the named characters stick around due to some form of immortality or other (i'm still salty that all of the cool ones are dead or irrelevant in AOS)
>Grimgor beats down on Archaon, crisis averted and everybody can go home
That's Storm of Chaos and the game died partially as a result of it ruining GW's attempt at narrative. You're asking them to repeat oneof their biggest mistakes
Why the bloody hell would you set up a game that can be decided by players if you were only going to have one outcome? "Chaos gets utterly buttfricked" should have been a acceptable outcome for the story they should have prepared for.
Both are garb but age of shitmar is a special kind of bad. Everything about it is terrible from the game itself to the lore. I don't know how you could frick something up as badly as AOS honestly.
Still better than WHFB because it actually tries to do shit that breaks the mold like ironbark tree spirits that get along with dwarves
>it's good because it's different
That's not how good works.
When you realize AoS is full of the kinds of people who come to /tg/ and post thei 'unique new ideas' like dwarfs that are tall and drink wine, it makes a lot more sense.
But then why have them as dwarfs at all? Why can't they just be normal humans, who like wine?
It starts to sound like my niece, which tries to find a new disorder for herself every new semester.
Why can't dwarfs be dwarfs, men be men etc ?
As opposed to whf where they have to copy everything from elsewhere
Yes moron you've discovered that actually good fantasy has grounding and borrowing from previous fantasy which borrows from myths.
Your fantasy is SHIT because it's literally you just making things up that have no relation to anything that has existed, then considering yourself a genius creator for it. Oh wait that's not even actually what you did, what YOU did was take the horribly campy garbage that was world of warcraft and then add black lesbians to it, so it's actually worse than "something you came up with that has no relation to anything else" because it's literally based on something terrible that was created purely to sell DLC/expansion packs.
Because people who make tall gay dwarfs without beards who drink wine are not actually creative they're just subversive morons. Somewhere they recognize their own thing sucks or isn't good, but they've bought into the cult of "flashy WoW colors from 2006".
>Actual good fantasy
Not a thing because 99% of fantasy is shit anyway. Nor is it inspired by actual myths anyway. It's literally all just Tolkien larping like he lived in a country with actual history and myths.
>which borrows from myths.
No good fantasy made over the last 50 years borrows anything from myths besides some vague names.
>Your fantasy is SHIT because it's literally you just making things up that have no relation to anything that has existed
Wow, you mean it's actually fantasy?
>Oh wait that's not even actually what you did, what YOU did was take the horribly campy garbage that was world of warcraft and then add black lesbians to it, so it's actually worse than "something you came up with that has no relation to anything else" because it's literally based on something terrible that was created purely to sell DLC/expansion packs.
Have you ever heard the phrase doublethink?
>Because people who make tall gay dwarfs without beards who drink wine are not actually creative they're just subversive morons.
I agree. They should just remove dwarfs altogether. Same for every other fantasy trope ever made.
>it's that guy who reddit replies line by line like he's doing a SICK OWN
Naw, not reading that. Tolkein and Moorcuck and Conan worked because they were written by educated men who put years, decades of work into their stories. Yours is shit because you think "what if humans.... BUT ELVES" is brilliant. You are full of yourself, not as smart as you think and worst of all have no respectf or an actual creative process. You are a michael bay- you think you can substitute actual effort with bright shiny colors and ten planets all crashing into each other.
And this wraps back around to age of sigmar since you clearly think that's the bees-knees in terms of creativity- it is also fricking shit because it's loud and in your face like Poochie, purely because the people who made it needed something fast and threw it together in a board room while smoking crack.
It is not and never will be a decent setting, your ideas are bad because you will never be a deep thinker or creative because you lack the capacity to actually respect and refine the process, you almost certainly cry about AI art and every bit of criticism you've ever received.
And most importantly the fact actual dwarfs remain the dominant and popular version and no one likes "10 foot tall dwarfs who are all female and have buttsex" proves your subversive ideas are unwanted on all levels- you can't even argumentum ad populum because your ideas are just worthless and the actual issue, as I have said, is that rather than get a clue and actually make something good you choose to keep shitting out sparklepony OCs and being That Guy for settings, always bewildered no one recognizes your erstwhile genius.
>Naw, not reading that.
Then I'll make it clear in a single nice and concise point: Fantasy has always been bad. Warhammer fantasy was already a degradation of the earlier works. It's all bad, and the fact you insist on drawing arbitrarily lines and ignoring reality shows that you have zero understanding of what actually drew people to it in the first place. If you want to see fantasy that you would actually like, go read light novels.
Age of Sigmar is fun to me because at least it's over the top and farcical. It's the same reason why people like 40K even when Dune and Star Wars exists. It's one thing to have space orks, it's another to make them all look and act like a cross between mad max and football hooligans. If anything, the single biggest problem with Age of Sigmar is that it never had it's Rogue Trader esque "This setting is a total satirical farce" period to build upon.
>actually good fantasy
So not whf then, especially since it was basically a mishmash of anything that was vaguely popular at that time
>Fantasy is not allowed to be creative and involve actual fantasy
>You can only do things that have been done before
Not a very creative and thoughtful person, are you?
Must be very confused and scared by new concepts
I mean... the WHFB setting wasn't amazing or anything, but compared to AOS it might as well be the crown israeliteel of fantasy literature. trying to excuse AOS by pointing out the flaws with Warhammer would be more than a little ridiculous.
>after 8 fricking years AoS still has not managed to create setting more beloved than a chinese mobile game
Bummer. Maybe the next 8 years will do the trick.
Is there any place for the Warden King in Kharadron Lists? I just wanna run my boy Belegar some time
I was gonna say "make it not suck" but then I remembered what 40k is like so. I dunno. make it suck more I guess?
Do you really want an endless flood of moronic secondaries? AoS is nice because it's a game that people get into because they actually like the miniature wargaming hobby, but is commonly available unlike the /awg/s
charge 40 quid for a box of 5 sigmarines
aos 3rd edition didn't need to happen
aos 2nd edition was a mixed bag but mostly good
aos1 GHB1 was pure kino
the problem with aos is in the setting. the concept of taking realms in space and mashing them together belongs in a kids fantasy show
it got a lot better once they started putting actual work into the writing, however first impressions matter and people will always remember aos lore for the mortuary factory. they should have put in the work from the start
>it got a lot better once they stopped making it like aos and more like whf
Well, yeah. It should have been that way from the start. Shame it was completely half-assed by marketing execs instead of writers, just like the 1st edition pre-GHB rules.
>Anon can not handle anything actually fantastical
What a shame
I unironically love those 1sr edition maps
Pure manifested sovl
Wish they did more of them
>Wish they did more of them
You and... well nobody else.
>Anon is afraid of such levels of kino
And yes, they should make it all specifically for me
Ye unwashed masses are not known being able to appreciate the sovl
No need, we already get the better models and creative releases. 40k stays as the main money maker and we enjoy the good releases ad infinitum. I wish my LGS had an aos scene tho
Okey, but why do it in the first place. Do non white dudes actualy BUY any of the GW games in large enough numbers for the "improvments" to be good, even if they piss off so many people? What is wrong if someone wants a city state army to be a city state. The world is not London or NY, in majority of places people from same place look the same. Want an "ethnic" army sure make one, but not do the "every 3ed model has to be black and every 4th has to be female". I don't run around telling that any of the AoS games won't be good till they add Tatar or Turkmen representation to the game. At some point it becomes comical when every leader, officer, main pilot cpt, titan princeps (that isn't outright evil) is a woman. It breaks immersion on the same level, as if some cast Brad Pitt to be the father of Chaka Zulu. But what really boders people is that for some reason GW LOVES to make all the diverse stuff ugly. Big dude with ax looks like a russian with alcohol syndrom ? meh, maybe it is even climactic (he is from a "rogue/highway people" faction). But why the frick do they make women ugly. For every 1 everqueen there is like 20 models where one thinks that the design studio has to be made out of gay dudes and 300lb women with side cut and blue hair. Model from the 90s and 2000s have better looking women the stuff GW is making right now. And unless someone is crazy for nurgle, people prefare their stuff to look nice. And yes people can say that with a master level of painting and some resculpting etc all models can be saved. But that is not the solution for the avarge "Joe" table top painters who struggles to finish his 5 colour max army.
If the ethnic, women , minority models looked great no one would have problem with them. Mr Slanesh Fabio? Maybe some people have problems with the horns(easy to remove), but besides that the, no pun intended, model is perfect. Give us models like that and not another "is that a baboon"&"16yold boy or artmajor meth addict?"
its literally financial institutions withholding funding unless you meet their diversity quota and have a high enough ESG score. why the bankers are so obsessed with race is another question entirely
A white man did that graph
To calculate the ideal ESG score per character, yes.
Isn't GW a private company? Never mind, what I think it is, that the GW execs don't care and GW employees think that 50% women and +50% non hetero man should be a thing. And up until people like me stop buying a box of custodes or marines every vistit to the store nothing will change. I just wished they would make nicer looking models. As I said, there are models done by hand of not marines/orks etc that look better comparing to what we have right now. And that doesn't mean that all AoS models or all models made by GW are ugly. The Lumineth Lords look (in their humanoid part of the army) great. the witch elves (minus the hair) are good too. The non human stuff looks nice, sometimes hit or miss, but at least it ain't attrocious. I mean maybe it is because I am an oldgay on Ganker, but can't the "pope" of humans not look like a baboon? The face was not sculpted by hand and GW "inspires" itself a lot in the models they made (vide the not Deathdealer as nurgle champion). Why not take the face of top best looking "black" super models and avarge it out and slam it on to the model? Want a bad ass "black sgt" ? We kids loved Roadblock. Take the face of S.Jackson and not put it on a mother fricking canoness, but some bad ass CoS dude. Shamans, Mystics, Scholars, put them in cities can be different from each other. It is the nature of fantasy to mix stuff, but don't make it ugly for no reason.
>Isn't GW a private company? Never mind, what I think it is, that the GW execs don't care and GW employees think that 50% women and +50% non hetero man should be a thing.
It's publicly traded but the share price has appreciated enough it shouldn't even matter whether they get ESG bucks. Rather if they cared, they'd franchise the shit out of everything instead of being stingy and making their own in-house stuff. Get a 2 billion dollar disney movie about Gaunt's ghosts or whatever.
The actual answer is demographics- all the deviantart sparklepony girls from 2000 grew up so now they're in art rooms making the art direction as the old boomers do not give their jobs to their sons, but someone else's daughter because they're horny as frick at 70.
And this is why stuff will forever get worse. Because it's not a 'fad', this is why Ganker itself is worse- it has been invaded by outsiders who are nothing like Old Ganker and want to claim or coopt what was good, but they lack the skill to do it because it was all dudes just having a laugh and now it's women with mental problems and people from india trying to claim "we were always here" when they weren't. And this applies to nerd hobbies in general. Women moved in because they could get attention from nerds and now it will forever be fricked up.
>The actual answer is demographics- all the deviantart sparklepony girls from 2000 grew up so now they're in art rooms making the art direction as the old boomers do not give their jobs to their sons,
That was always inevitable since inheritance doesn't work and their sons are too busy getting caught up in rape cases or taking drugs to bother learning how to draw. It's mostly new people, and what did they grow up with? Adventure Time, Avatar the Last Airbender, World of Warcraft, Friendship is Magic, and 2008 era internet. And those are the mostly normal people, the real weeb freaks that grew up with Touhou or Naruto exist as well.
>it has been invaded by outsiders who are nothing like Old Ganker and want to claim or coopt what was good
That is how the far right operates.
Diversity quotas are for employees not products you moron. You're supposed to hire real black people, not make fictional ones if you care about this score
Then why, in w40k, every 3ed marine is painted with a black face? Even in chapters, where they have a litteral genetic disorder that makes all of them "white".
wrong.
That's literally not how ESG works at all.
Wrong. "representation" is also required in fiction even though blacks will never play the game
But what for? If they aren't playing the game, then why do it ? Do they think they have a legion of 12y old dudes they can train to accept it? Because if yes then they are wrong. Their Clients were 12y old 20 years ago, or more. All GW games have horrible player retention, it has always been so. Meaning that even if someone gets an edition of "representation" they will be gone before it becomes normalised. Plus because a lot of people get burned on GW games, it actualy can have the opposit effects. Some people may think that all GW does is "diversify" instead of sitting down and fixing their faction rules or giving them the unit they want.
Because when you want funding to build a new warehouse and factor you go to the bank and when its a 20 million dollar project the loan officer goes "hmmm whats your environmental score? whats your diversity and inclusion score?" and that literally effects the money youll get.
ESPECIALLY in Bongland.
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why does the bank care about stuff like that though? It doesn't bring them more customers. Worse if they do invest in to a progressive project there is a high chance that they end up with something like the last Toy Story or the Marvel movies of last few years. And I am sure the head of the bank do not care for an excuse from a lower ranking official, that he lost money for a good cause.
>It doesn't. It pisses off a tiny group of subhumans that are 1: Not good fans and nobody wants. 2: Are sociopathic freaks that don't buy anything and feel morally correct in doing so. 3: Are such a nonexistent increase in profit margin that any increase made by pissing them off would be a net positive.
But it does piss people up. When you want to start and army, and you have to then fix the heads etc you get the fine cast and liquid finecast effect.
>Nothing is wrong with that. (Even though 1: It wasn't. 2: AoS doesn't take place in the middle ages). This is literally the most fricking insane subhuman friendly game possible. Swap out the head if, like the insane subhumans in this thread, you think it's a black phenotype.
But it is not just the paint. They make them look "diverse" and ugly on top of all things. If the CoS "pope" had the looks of Naomi Camble there would be fewer problems. Are you telling me that puting samuel jacksons face on a canoness is not a problem? And the "just switch" well I covered that. GW stuff already costs premium telling people that they just have to pay extra to fix a product is not going to make them happy.
>If you want to paint everybody in your army white and pretend you are larping as what you imagine a medieval European city was like.
I don't have to imagine. I wrote my masters about "XVIthe century tatar nobility under the reign of Sigmuns August the Second in Druskiejniki".
>But it does piss people up.
No, it pisses off subhumans. Not actual people.
>But it is not just the paint.
Then swap out the heads.
>Are you telling me that puting samuel jacksons face on a canoness is not a problem?
No, not really. Not my first choice, that tends to be the helmet.
>GW stuff already costs premium telling people that they just have to pay extra to fix a product is not going to make them happy.
Again, stop using the term "people". No actual person has a issue with this.
>I don't have to imagine.
Ah, you have a time machine. Then go back in time and shoot Hitler or something.
>Chuds
>Owning anything
A flea can never oppose a lion.
>You're confusing genes in general with the non-genetic brain damage you have from hitting your head too hard.
No. You just fundamentally don't understand how genens work.
>African Dna
Not a thing.
>and therefore bonestructure, IQ, risk of genetic disease like sickle cell anemia, does not come from their parents
Correct. Mostly because that's now genes work.
>>If you have pale skin you are not a pale skin African, you are 100% a white man and race is only skin deep
There is no such thing as being white or African. It's all memetic nonsense for people with zero understanding of actual biology.
>Are you impling genes passed on by BLACK parents wont be in their offspring and GENES arent heritable?!!??!
There are no black genes.
>find me a photo of one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Portr%C3%A4t_Joseph_Goebbels.jpg
Guy looks like a fricking rat person.
Not reading your post, brain damaged mass replier.
nah it is just halfasses pandering, nobody complains about kathay in warhammer fantasy just give them their own wakanda faction already bust stop crowbaring them into every other faction
but you wouldnt want that because then you would see how much people would really care
Correct. But you forget most companies are incompetent and only do things half assed.
With that said though, diversity one way or another is a total non issue and people are deluding themselves if they think ESG score are even remotely relevant.
>Why can't dwarfs be dwarfs,
Because the genre is called "Fantasy" and not "I read Tolkien when I was 10 and never had a creative thought in my head since then".
You've NEVER had a creative thought though, moron. Tolkein worked and so did all his contemporaries because they were educated men creating worlds based on obscure myths and dead languages. Your shit SUCKS because it's a fricking child who grew up in that world and said "I HATE IT ALL, SO I'M MAKING BLACK TRANNIES IN YUGIOH". You're not creative at all, you're just one of those tards on twitter crying "everyone only wants to read books by old white men instead of by a young latinx worman", not recognizing your shit sucks.
You have no education
You have no basis
You have no imagination
You just think shiny colors and ruining existing things=creativity, you are the anti-creative.
>Tolkein worked and so did all his contemporaries because they were educated men creating worlds based on obscure myths and dead languages.
Correct. Everything since then has been a degradation. Fantasy as a genre is bad and it's inability to actually escape the Tolkien mold is evidence of that. Well, that and Isekai existing.
>Your shit
Define "My shit". If you mean Age of Sigmar, then 1: Not the creator, Skaven would have gotten a update already if I was. 2: Age of Sigmar is derivative as frick.
>You just think shiny colors and ruining existing things=creativity, you are the anti-creative.
And you meanwhile are totally mentally insane.
Tolkien’s dwarfs are dwarfs because of a specific basis in prior folklore of creatures called dwarfs, not an arbitrary uncreative attachment to fantasy meme terms which is what you’re defending. Making something that are nothing like the cultural contexts attached to dwarfs and then calling them dwarfs is not creativity, it’s anti-creative fart huffing subversion
>Tolkien’s dwarfs are dwarfs because of a specific basis in prior folklore of creatures called dwarfs,
Dwarfs, in the modern fantasy sense, where effectively created out of whole cloth as a stand in for israelites in the Hobbit. Not a very subtle stand in either. They have frick and all to do with Germanic dwarfs. Hell, the very term Dwarf might be a mistranslation.
> Making something that are nothing like the cultural contexts attached to dwarfs and then calling them dwarfs is not creativity, it’s anti-creative fart huffing subversion
Again, that's what Tolkien did.
Even the Kharadron Overlords are, in their own way, not so much a subversion as much as a refinement or evolution of the traditional idea of a Dwarf. As for beardless dwarfs. The only example I can think of is Varric in Dragon Age. Where the entire point is that he is outside the rest of, already clearly established and very traditional, dwarf culture. It's like stumbling across a British man in Japan dresses like a Samurai. The clear disconnect is meant to draw the attention of the audience.
>. Do non white dudes actualy BUY any of the GW games in large enough numbers for the "improvments" to be good, even if they piss off so many people?
>So many people
It doesn't. It pisses off a tiny group of subhumans that are 1: Not good fans and nobody wants. 2: Are sociopathic freaks that don't buy anything and feel morally correct in doing so. 3: Are such a nonexistent increase in profit margin that any increase made by pissing them off would be a net positive.
>What is wrong if someone wants a city state army to be a city state.
Nothing is wrong with that. If you want to paint everybody in your army white and pretend you are larping as what you imagine a medieval European city was like (Even though 1: It wasn't. 2: AoS doesn't take place in the middle ages). This is literally the most fricking insane subhuman friendly game possible. Swap out the head if, like the insane subhumans in this thread, you think it's a black phenotype.
>At some point it becomes comical when every leader, officer, main pilot cpt, titan princeps (that isn't outright evil) is a woman.
They aren't. We've gone from "literally basically zero female models" to "something almost resembling but not quite a 50/50 parity". Oh, and again, nobody cares. Buy a figure of John Snow and glue him to a toy chimera if you can't stand the idea of a woman being in charge of your army.
> It breaks immersion on the same level, as if some cast Brad Pitt to be the father of Chaka Zulu.
It doesn't. Actors are actors. When I go to a theater show I don't spend my time being annoyed the British guy playing Julius Ceasar doesn't actually look like a Roman. Romeo and Juliet was originally cast with men only and nobody gave a frick. People that think this way are insane subhumans.
>But what really boders people is that for some reason GW LOVES to make all the diverse stuff ugly.
When the frick has GW ever made a model pretty? Even canon "beautiful" characters all look ugly as sin.
>They aren't. We've gone from "literally basically zero female models" to "something almost resembling but not quite a 50/50 parity". Oh, and again, nobody cares. Buy a figure of John Snow and glue him to a toy chimera if you can't stand the idea of a woman being in charge of your army.
Anyone who cares about in system realism does. You can explain chaos with chaos, Elves with magic. But humans are humans. And in human armies there were/aren't anywomen in line units.
>It doesn't. Actors are actors. When I go to a theater show I don't spend my time being annoyed the British guy playing Julius Ceasar doesn't actually look like a Roman. Romeo and Juliet was originally cast with men only and nobody gave a frick. People that think this way are insane subhumans
There is a WORLD of difference between Charles Gray playing Julius Cesar, and Will Smith doing it.
>Romeo and Juliet was originally cast with men only and nobody gave a frick. People that think this way are insane subhumans.
because female "actresses" were considered a form of prostitute. Yet if you look who played Juliet in the plays in the lets say the times of mr Shakespear, then you will find out that non of them were 30 or 40 year old man.
>When the frick has GW ever made a model pretty? Even canon "beautiful" characters all look ugly as sin.
What the frick are you talking about. Teclis, Tyrion, Gotrek and Felix all look the way they should. Melekiths mom and her brood. The everqueen. Ariel. All perfectly well made models. The old twins and the new twins. Same. And then the human faction comes and it looks as if the models were done by a british art major who has a UK view on middle ages aka their country was shit, small and unimportant in those times, so they make it seem as if the middle ages were somehow bad, and the actual HISTORY started end XVIth century.
>Anyone who cares about in system realism does.
Ah yes, the system realism... In my high fantasy realms that are literally connected by giant warp gates protected by golden superhuman paladins.
>And in human armies there were/aren't anywomen in line units.
Here is a short list of things that were also not in real world armies, but can be in your age of sigmar army:
Elves.
Dwarves.
Mages.
Gryphons.
Dinosaurs.
Steam powered tanks.
Giant magical Luminarks.
Hydras.
Tree people.
Ents.
Giant turtles.
I could go on, but the point is made.
>There is a WORLD of difference between Charles Gray playing Julius Cesar, and Will Smith doing it.
There isn't. You are just insane.
>because female "actresses" were considered a form of prostitute.
And yet nobody was complaining that it was immersion breaking that there were no women in stories that generally involved them.
>then you will find out that non of them were 30 or 40 year old man.
The fact they are men, at all, is what matters. Do you really think they were all crossdressing to such a perfect extent that nobody realized they were men?
>"Its not happening."
>"Okay, its happening, but its not a big deal."
>"Okay its happening, but its a good thing."
>"Oh my god, why are you complaining, you're weird"
>"Its not happening."
What is? Women being added to Warhammer? Yes, that is happening.
>but its not a big deal."
Correct.
>but its a good thing."
Yes, also correct.
>"Oh my god, why are you complaining, you're weird"
Still correct. Though I would say "Totally batshit insane" is more accurate.
I do love how 'advanced' feminism's goal is to make women suffer and be disposable in the same way as men (but 'only if they choose to be', and so 'equal but with superior options of choice')
and to erase female beauty standards as a 'masculine fantasy'.
Pretty women have no need other than social validation to invest in such an ideology, they have access to power in a manner out of reach to the angry feminist ideologue.
>>Its happening! (conspiracy)
> (you) 'Yes'
also you
>"Totally batshit insane!"
YWNBAW
>goal is to make women suffer and be disposable in the same way as men
Women have always suffered. I'm sure that to cattle like men like you, having no freedom and most likely dying while giving birth is seen as a positive. But actual people disagree.
>but 'only if they choose to be', and so 'equal but with superior options of choice'
That is how men work.
>and to erase female beauty standards as a 'masculine fantasy'.
They are a memetic idea, and therefore of no value.
>It's happening
Again, what is?
Yes everyone shut up, a man is speaking on behalf of women 😛 😛 😛
>That is how men work.
Implying he has any idea at all.
>>and to erase female beauty standards as a 'masculine fantasy'.
>They are a memetic idea, and therefore of no value.
Mask off, thanks for that.
>>It's happening
>Again, what is?
You gotta be 18 to post here, kid.
>On behalf of women
Everything I said is factual.
>Implying he has any idea at all.
I am a man. That is how men work.
>Mask off, thanks for that.
Again, why would I deny facts?
>You gotta be 18 to post here, kid.
And you have to be sane, yet clearly that isn't stopping you. Now answer the question.
>Everything I said is factual.
ywnbaw
>I am a man.
X to doubt.
>Again, why would I deny facts?
Because you're too stupid to understand how badly the truth harms your position, you numbskull. Guess what genius... some WOMEN are not feminists either!
Doesn't that just blow your mind? "How could they be against their own best interests?"
Theres a difference between having compassion and empathy for women and being a male feminist, but I understand the distinction eludes you. Make sure to tell more women what a staunch feminist you are though, that will help you score ;P
> Now answer the question.
No, I do not consent. Learn to read, you mong.
IB4 "They just have internalized misogyny"
Not possible.
>AoS thread
>devolves into directionbrain argument about race
Every time
It's because we, as a society still haven't criminalized race. Just do what they did to deal with vampire superaction in Hungary, arrest anybody who engages in it.
Better art. Better models. Better setting. Bigger battles.
Oh wow, we've recreated Warhammer Fantasy Battles!
It's not possible James. 40,000 is THE most popular wargame and trying to beat your own product is self defeating. You should be trying to make Age of Sigmar into it's own thing, and be happy that you get the sales that you do
>Heh, I'll reply to these stupid /misc/ poster chuds. That'll show em.
>good thing I went to my sociology class and listened to my favorite twitch streamer today
>gets BTFO'd by the chudsters with facts and logic
many such cases
Ok so which is it. You were totally making slav jokes about the those models or they are perma black coded and you can't just paint them white?
Make up your mind already homosexual
>Teclis, Tyrion, Gotrek and Felix all look the way they should.
Yes, none of them are pretty.
>Melekiths mom and her brood. The everqueen. Ariel. All perfectly well made model
Correct. Pretty though, they are not.
>And then the human faction comes and it looks as if the models were done by a british art major who has a UK view on middle ages aka their country was shit, small and unimportant in those times,
The middle ages was shit. Literally, in fact. Do you really think your average man of arms or levied peasant was a 10/10 handsome anime bishonen?
And regardless of the question of historical accuracy, in my over the top fantasy universe, "The dung ages" is a perfectly viable fantasy aesthetic just as much as say "Fire Emblem" is a viable fantasy aesthetic.
>so they make it seem as if the middle ages were somehow bad
Every time period that is not now is bad. If you disagree you should typing right now and join the amish.
>is that a GW thread on my subre... i mean board that isn't about Black folk? Sisters time to spam race bait "discussion"
Can't believe a wojak poster is the most sane person in a thread
They could do the thing that made 40k popular in the first place. Big narrative campaign decided by player battle reports, like the wars for armageddon or medusa.
It's not like anyone cares about the world of sigmar so they might as well have a campaign or two that decide the fate of Shyish or something.
replace sigmarines with someone else
tired of seeing these ugly gold fricks on every god damn box
sigmar gets so many wonderful minis, but they focus half the product on these disgusting bastards
More non-dyke women in fantasy bikinis
o yea
it's a gonzo fantasy setting starring 10 foot tall lighting knights with magic powers traveling a multiverse of evil
and every fricking image has it taking place in some random dustball or a swamp or some shitty place like that. Despite the premise, somehow AoS continues to have LESS interesting background and settings than Fantasy's generic fantasy europe.
The most interesting thing they've done is make a glow-in-the-dark mushroom cave world, and that's just sad. Their best-selling adventure is a big spooky castle and it's the only location most people can name.
>Take a setting where fantasy humans were fighting off Ork mongols to the east, chaotic norsemen from the north, french knights to the southwest, vampires and beastmen celts within. Throw in other cool fantasy factions as well.
>Destroy setting, now the main human faction for the first 8 years are either chaos god empowered norsemen or god empowered lightning norsemen. Both have the same heavy infantry fighting style. The "good" humans are either faceless almost automatons, while the ones with personality are marvel superheroes. All the old humans from the previous setting were a filler army that barely got a glance of support.
>wait 8 years to finally release a good new interpretation of normal humans back into the game and focusing less on Warriors of Chaos vs Warriors of Lightning.
They are slowly trying to fix and improve the game, its taking a while, but we will get there.
The biggest problem with Age of Sigmar is that it sells itself entirely just on cool factor for the models, with little substance. It wants to not be a concrete setting and instead be like a Moba like Dota or League of Legends, but in miniature form. Your army has background lore, but just in the most vague and minimum effort needed. Why are you fighting? Well your army just walked through a portal and now your fighting air ship dwarves with your flying atlantis sharks in the realm of beasts for some reason.
>Your army has background lore, but just in the most vague and minimum effort needed. Why are you fighting? Well your army just walked through a portal and now your fighting air ship dwarves with your flying atlantis sharks in the realm of beasts for some reason.
Just like the old days. I never realized that sigmar was a return to form for GW and not some corporate cashgrab. Explains why all of the sigmar sculpts are so amazing.
This as a person that knew alot about 40k before doing the tabletop and going in the store in the past few months. AoS doesn't seem to know what its doing even after some reading, the Sigmarines are Sigmarines, and some models are awesome while others are trash. In other words, AoS has no consistency from a new person PoV and I can't trust it from a person who has experienced many hobbies. I'd rather try out Kingdom Death Monster with my friend then touch AoS, not to mention the AoS starter set looks like trash with whatever those skinny green things are.
Knock a zero off the price of all the models.
40k is "grim dark sci fi future" its a dark timeline set 38000 years in our future, easy to grasp.
Fantasy was a fantasy version of europe and the world, with different fantasy races representing different cultures.
AoS is 9 magical realms that are infinite and always flowing with weird shit where Odin sends lightning men to fight weird fantasy factions that all have no real connection to each other.
Make the game's lore more graspable by people instead of just hoping the pretty models sell it.
People get space marines, its super humans fighting aliens and monsters. Stormcast need you to sit down and read a bunch of bad lore to understand what the frick is even going on.
>where Odin sends lightning men to fight weird fantasy factions that all have no real connection to each other.
I confess that I haven't made the effort to actually read AoS lore past it first year, but I would have imagined that after a decade this would no longer be the case. You sure about this? Sure the realms shit makes for a bad foundation, but there ought to be something worth calling a web of relationships and history between factions by now.
You can't. The silent majority of players who buy product hate the gay and fur shit that fantasy was turned into. No one wants to take part in a setting where water elves ride turtles into battle to fight dwarves flying in balloons made of metal. Its fricking stupid.
>silent majority
>when wfb playerbase at its peak is a fraction of current AoS
You're a loud minority magnified here by the fact one of /tg/ jannitor is one of you and covers your ass
those shark elves always remind me of pic related
My biggest problem with AOS is that everything looks so plasticly clean, it might just be the GW paintjob, but most new lizardmen units look like they were designed by a lewd scaly artist, almost nothing looks rough or rigid anymore
i think he outed himself when he said this was his greatest model of all time
Tyranids have always been the fetish army though.
???
It's mostly the paintjob.
Though, frankly, I would say that applies to old Lizardmen as well. They just looked way more ugly in general.
It's the stupid mouths. It ruins them. AoS has mostly upgraded everythng, but sometimes you get a stinker like these and church of scientology.
Mouths are to be expected since it's basically just the Total War design.
>Total War design.
You zoomer homosexuals could at least pretand you know the wfb Lizardmen range
I vaguely know what was left of it around the the start of Age of Sigmar.
sometimes i really wonder what could have been if they leaned more into the bulky OG version of the lizards
More diversity
Its too disconnected from real life historical themes and designs. Whenever I see 2 aos armies fighting, in my minds eye I just imagine them as cartoons. Theres no grit. 40k is starting to lack that grit as well, but theres still more than aos.
>We need ONE world map, not a bunch of bland imagination
>How do we ruing AoS?
How about renaming Humans to Hoe'mo-aaahhnnneth?
Or maybe another super CREATIVE spin on a fantasy race? Like, hobbits but they're all telepaths and they have like, mushroom instead of feet, and they're called Gubygthpwon'kin.
Bring back Warhammer Fantasy.
Video games and make some factions more visually interesting.
They need to make an easily accesible map I, and other maptists, can oggle and play fantasy with. I've tried before to find a basic map of the AoS world, but it's this gay run around of realms, planes, continents, and they really just don't want to give me an answer which annoys me.
Give me a basic political map of AoS and I'll play.
A game going "mainstream" as 40K did is something more to be cursed, than to be celebrated. Doesn't matter what system it is, lets say for example, that Battletech had gone mainstream the way CyberPunk and 40Kek has, do you really want that amount of normie homosexuals and troons getting involved?
no
>ugly women
>coloreds except in their own factions like Cathar
>dykes
>trannies
>blue or pink haircuts
yes
>breasts
>white men
and finally
go back to Fantasy's 17th century Europe setting it was way cooler
>Fantasy was just Europe
I know you people are moronic, but pls
Why didn't adding fantasy marines work is the better question. Saying they are all black tranoid womyn with mental illness haircuts isn't even an answer because they didn't even do that with Sigmarines at first.
It was a mixture of different things
>Introudce Not space marines that have barely any lore to them and the lore that is currently available is all over the place and hamfists stormcast as the best thing ever in a setting with many different factions.
>Rules were pretty shit and there was no points so people could not figure out how to have fun games which werent one side stomping the other. Also the rules were so bad that you could have any unit from any faction in your army causing people to just pick every good unit and put em together.
>Death of a beloved cult setting so there was a very loud and unhappy voice which cause a lot of hate to be flung about everywhere at all times which drowned out any conversation of the game. This still happens
>The release schedule was so damn slow. They were releasing one model a week and some weeks they released terrain and boks instead of models for the two starting armies that it took about 3 months for the first 2 armies to be fully released.
>The models themselves were not that good. the stormcast were very blocky and had a very marmite feel to them as they didnt have time to grow on people like marines could and the khorne models were just over the top silly with names like "Bloodsecrator"
I have been a aos player since the very first edition but even then the first AoS edition was such a blunder and a fricking mess i don't even know how i managed to keep being a hobbyist through it.
the silly rules were great
Thye are the most popular faction in AoS, so it did have some effect. Like 15% of it is just them, which isn't a lot compared to over 75% of 40k being Imperium, but still a siginifact lead in a game with like 20+ factions
>Why didn't adding fantasy marines work is the better question.
It worked somewhat, but first edition was a mistake and initial stormcast weren't that great.
Stormcast are the gayest shit. "Humans" without any of the things that make humanity aspirational. What's even the point? May as well be actual golems. And then they throw in a bunch of dumb shit like, oh, a woman who died giving birth to 7 children gets reborn as a stormcast to serve as tanks on the battlefield, just, what? Why? Because "mueh women"? Like, what's the theme here? Just stupid. Only shit they've got going for them is that they're the good guys and xbox hueg, but I think even the "good guys" part is a facade, if people read the fluff they'd hate them.
lol is that lore? did a woman become a stormcast after dying during child birth? that screams phil kelly cuckery if so and even if he wasn't responsible for it he probably suggested it over drinks at the local pub to whoever put their name on that
as someone who has read most but not all books i have not read this one so either its been vastly exagerated or is not true and just a way for trolls to spread hate.
A person is taken by ssigmar normally just before they die in battle while believing in sigmar. there are exceptions like a warlord taken from his people before a battle against skaven causing the them to lose as they no longer had their leader.
To be honest, anon's claim sounds more like a fanfic.
where do these female stormcast come from then? from being nurses, as if that were any different? I read on reddit there are even they/them stormcast now, hardly a surprise considering all the they/thems we see in 40k lately as well, gw is pushing the pozz hard. anyone saying that women can't become stormcast merely by existing is coping hard. the faction is a joke.
>it took 40 years for 40k to be at its most popular
40k has pretty much always been popular though. Tactical marines have been their best selling kit for 50 years (until the Uru'kai). Something tells me we won't be saying that about Stormcast 50 years from now.
Scrap the whole thing and bring back Fantasy
This. And stop overpricing.
>gw
>ever not overpricing after they've done it for this long and realized paypigs will cough up whatever they demand
Fat chance that'll ever happen.
Sigmar's minis are some of the best, if not the best. I know a dnd playing group who almost exclusively use aos minis for antagonists.
Give it a slightly grimmer aesthetic, every time I see an image of AoS it looks like an advertisement for a chinese mobile video game
kill the setting a very poorly thought up way. Later generations will come to believe that it was better than it actually was
Let all the factions and history occur in one world
Sigmar is kino
Can't believe nobody mentioned this yet: Get rid of the damn top knot and side fade hairstyles.