/thread
SC2 killed itself and everything around it. Even if they release SC3 and try to artificially revive the esport scene like they did with overwatch it will still die within a month. NOBODY cares anymore. People think they do but look at fricking stormslop. 10 minutes of playing and you know you won't be wasting your 30s with getting good at. It can be the best rts in the world and people won't play it. As for custom games. Just for forget about those. Nobody will make a custom game if he can make the same game in a better engine and ask money for it.
absolute bullshit. Starcraft died in korea due to wintrading because even pros knew this isn't going anywhere. You are just too much of a homosexual to admitt that it's over. Grow up you fat Black person
this JUST got put on steam
i want to support the decision but dont want to give EA anymore money
i already bought the game in 2004 also.
any advice?
i DID buy c&c remastered on the EA app for $1.99, lol. please forgive me.
[...]
stormgate is dogshit i played the """beta""" (pre-pre-pre-alpha) for 12 hours
homeworld 3 is also dogshit. the demo wargames game MODE was sort of interesting but the design decisions are beyond fricked and the actual ship movement and micro and combat is total dogshit.
tempest rising got delayed (Again)
crossfire legion is still dead
DORF looks good but is vaporware
BAR is fantastic, as is Zero-K but they've been around for a long time.
9 bit armies is fricking good in coop i strongly recommend it.
i do play on C&C net sometimes.
i played a lot of sc2 but kind of stropped pushing after i hit diamond 2. i just dont enjoy LotV the balance and pacing is dogshit. i miss WoL a lot.
[...] >SC3 >'they'
The company that made SC2 doesn't exist.
The people who made SC2 have all left that company. About 40% of them are "working" on Stormgate - the rest are working for other companies.
anon, RTS itself is fine. it's even getting a bunch of new games now too, some would say that a revival is on the horizon. it isn't the craze that it was back in the day, but it doesn't need to be
They just cant go to make any games that dont dishonor my girlfriend! And then you see they dont make any! and I wont put up with any more of these nerds touching Guns, invented by America's Marines!! as if it was a Nerf toy! No thank you Sonny Junior! Maybe you can learn to treat your Toys with some Respect!!
There's no possible way. 99% of the player base played minigames inside them because accessible standalone dev tools didn't exist and the editors for these games were rather powerful. So now you're target audience is 100 times smaller and the money just isn't there. SC2 briefly managed to recapture some of the magic with its co-op hero mode.
Sc2 co-op,campaign and custom games are all pretty good, I'm sure competent devs could just make all these things in another game, wc3r could have been it but blizzard stopped development halfway through
The lead developer of SC2's coop is working on the coop mode in stormgate.
It only had 1 map and 2 heroes to pick from in the public demo they had a couple weeks ago during nextfest, but it was enjoyable enough.
>what he meant by an actual strategy game >just watch units go back and forward for 5 minutes then your base instantly blows up the second a unit touches it
some1 pls send help spare me the misery
check out Syria: civil war or somthing like that
Cats Who Play are the devs, they were working on a Terminator RTS but got baleeted for being Russian. Also 9th Company: Roots of Terror but its a little too janky. But they're nice slower paced tactical RTS from a unique perspective
u just need a company like prime blizzard to make another RTS again, the only reason this genre was even popular to begin with was because the greatest western dev of all time happened to focus their efforts into the two best RTS of all time (WC3 and BW)
we basically had an american nintendo and they made the RTS genre famous, imagine if nintendo died, people can make good platformers or zelda likes, but they cant make a mario or zelda
>greatest western dev of all time
I wasn't even going to reply to this bait but it's so fricking stupid and so praised by some normalgays I just need to set the record straight.
Blizzard invented nothing. Blizzard innovated nothing. All Blizzard did was release polished / high quality games. Warcraft 2 was just a C&C ripoff, Starcraft just an evolution of that. Diablo / Diablo 2 were made by Condor / Blizzard North, not "Blizzard" - in fact, Blizzard North hated Blizzard South (B.S. for short) and their real diablo 3 sequel got canned for copied wow shit.
Warcraft 3 was just a ripoff of Battle Realms. In fact, WC3 was delayed a year because Battle Realms came out. It also copied a bunch of shit from Warlords Battlecry, but whatever.
WoW was just a copy of Everquest, again, casualized and made with mainstream appeal. You're acting like Halo is the best shooter of all time because it was designed to be the most popular. Sales does not equal quality, it equals popularity, and popularity leads to a self-propelled snowball that cannot fall apart, no matter how much dogshit can be shat out.
Friendly reminder that blizz dropped the ball with DotA, and rested on their laurels with WoW the same way 3d realms rested on their laurels with duke, making nothing else until...diablo 3, i guess, and HotS, and Overwatch. The power of activision, i guess.
I'm not denying that SC and WC3 aren't excellent games, they are, and their campaigns are top notch, but to say they're the best developer is just a frickin' insult. They aren't even the best RTS developer of their time, that'd go to Relic (Homeworld, Company of Heroes, Dawn of War) - and Dawn of War 2 was much more innovative than Starcraft 2, but that's an essay for another post. So was Supreme Commander
You just can't forget about western development studios that actually pushed the medium forward like Looking Glass, Westwood, Rockstar (GTA3 at least), Rare, Valve, Bethesda (up until Morrowind), etc
wall of cope notwithstanding, for 5-7 years, blizzard released nothing but genre defining gems. They'll never ever get a cent out of me ever again, but it is what it is
>from 1996-2005 blizzard was on fire
Yeah it was on fire alright. Fire because Activision put that bag of flaming dogshit out the front pretending it was some kind of a Halloween goodie bag.
You are so fricking stupid it's unbelievable.
It was a time and place thing.
The industry has changed so much, there is no chance of RTS ever coming back like that. If the next Beatles or Nirvana were playing today, it would get drowned in the sea of mumble rap and top40 pop garbage. People might read an article about a new rts and be like "huh, that's neat, glad that's being made" then go back to playing some Hoyoverse game on their phone.
[...]
Is this the canceled generals 2?
>greatest western dev >american nintendo
List of (western) developers that had a higher peak / prime that was higher/better than Blizzard at their highest prime:
Respawn
Larian
Remedy
Arkane
Obsidian Entertainment
Bioware
Looking Glass Studios
IOI Interactive
SuperGiant Games
Midway
Acclaim
Lionhead Studios
Neversoft
Radical Entertainment
Silicon Knights
Sierra
Amplitude Studios
Subset Games
Firaxis
Owlcat Games
Paradox Interactive
Naughty Dog
Sucker Punch
Valve
Rare
Retro Studios
Bethesda
Insomniac
Rockstar
Santa Monica Studios
Bungie (do not forget about Myth/Myth2 and Marathon)
Ubisoft (do not forget: old school rainbow six, splinter cell, rayman, etc.)
CD Projekt Red
Id Software
Westwood
12 Bay Studios
Megacrit Games
Brace Yourself Games
DICE
Eidos Montreal
Electronic Arts
Nightdive Studios
LucasArts
S.S.I.
Microprose / Simtex Software
Gearbox Software
Motion Twin
Interplay / Black Isle
Ludeon
Devolver Digital / Croteam
Apogee Software / 3D Realms
Frontier Developments
Hello Games (NMS redemption arc)
Hitting character limit. I won't continue, you get the point.
>we basically had an american nintendo and they made the RTS genre famous
That was Westwood bro.
go play your command on shitter and age of feces, theres not one american studio that reached the highs of blizzard in their peak years, and they did that on the back of the RTS and ARPG genre
they were the kings, and the only reason the genre was as massive as it was, theres a reason starcraft is still played on TV in korea and no on gives a frick about AOE of CaC
contender is a nice way to put it, as in blizzard won countless gold medals and they won a few bronze and silvers? yea you could call them contenders, not winners though
come back when you have done enough blizzard dick riding
2 months ago
Anonymous
come back when you stop coping and pretending that their games had even 1/10th the success or influence of a single blizzard rts
2 months ago
Anonymous
A silly point to complain about, majority strategy games are typically either Warcraft/Starcraft clones, or Dune/C&C clones, or outliers, like TA.
Having genre influence is par course with them being early era games.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah and being an early game in a genre means you significantly contributed to its innovation.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Pretty much, hence why out of all RTS it's these big two that set the tone.
I remember reading a nice article in early 2000 game journal about the two, man, I miss those times. It was exciting.
Installing Tiberium Dawn for the first time was spooky though, that talking mouth scared me aplenty.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>1/10th the success
if you treat money as the only metric of success then sure >influence
what great games did SC2 influence? It was a bad influence for the RTS genre in general
2 months ago
Anonymous
>influence
There was no influence at all unless you count people making custom maps and inventing dota/lol
RTS died at wc3 dude.
I played stormgate during nextfest. i sent peons to mine gold in 1994, i sent peons to mine gold in 2024. no innovation AT ALL.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Why are you striking out cuneiform here on this clay tablet repository? More gold is required!
2 months ago
Anonymous
>How do we revive the RTS genre?
like this
>generic blue&steel colored mechshit
I sleep
2 months ago
Anonymous
asiaticclick slop is the future of RTS.
2 months ago
Anonymous
all mobas are based off war3's hero system, so just that trumps all influence from other rts within the top down strategy genre
2 months ago
Anonymous
>war3's hero system
You really need to educate yourself.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1025600/Battle_Realms_Zen_Edition/
Warcraft 3 is a copy of this game. Yes, even the hero system.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>remaster >early access
wat
2 months ago
Anonymous
man I remember playing that shit back then
2 months ago
Anonymous
>influence
wc3's rts "innovations" if you can call them that were all dogshit failures, especially upkeep and heroes.
what players/fans made with the editor was much more important than anything blizzard made themselves. same with starcraft. RPGs, MOBAs, TDs, Autochess, etc...
funny shit, clash royale is literally just a warcraft 3 castle fight map...but with a card system...
Competitor is more adequate, and ultimately both won, as both series are art to the keen, both withstood time tests, both made history in the gaming world, and both are extremely enjoyable.
However ultimately Blizzard got a shorter end of a stick because they survived long enough to start rotting.
It's rather miraculous that SC2 went as well as it did, one can say.
2 months ago
Anonymous
A silly point to complain about, majority strategy games are typically either Warcraft/Starcraft clones, or Dune/C&C clones, or outliers, like TA.
Having genre influence is par course with them being early era games.
>1/10th the success
if you treat money as the only metric of success then sure >influence
what great games did SC2 influence? It was a bad influence for the RTS genre in general
sorry guys i dont see any cute korean girls in the crowds for your games in 2024, sucks to suck! gg tho!
2 months ago
Anonymous
>fails to make an argument >says gg anyway
every single time.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Cute girls are cute, but ultimately irrelevant both to game contents, and in the long run, as most games there are ultimately may very well become forgotten in the future. Some permanently.
Crowds alone don't make games great, nor do all great games get them, nor are other people necessarily capable of understanding true value of things.
2 months ago
Anonymous
the point is starcraft is still very popular, i dont see many events for AOE or C&C that get the type of viewership of the ASL or many other stacraft tournaments, or content creators
2 months ago
Anonymous
Unquestionably, but there are reasons for that, one of which is that those games died somewhat, while Blizzard proliferated itself into capable company, numerous correct decisions helped little by little to ensure series survival, plus Korean zeal, plus SC game balance lending itself well to crystallize multiplayer cliques.
It's not unthinkable that were the Korean War were to turn out differently, it simply wouldn't get to the same level of popularity, assuming SC were to be made at all.
But to be fair to this hypothetical, some other games wouldn't come into being too.
Ultimately, neither AOE nor C&C are bad games, whether in a vacuum or on their own. C&C had its own events too, back in the past, I think...
2 months ago
Anonymous
>i dont see many events for AOE
Just because you know nothing doesn't make it true.
This was $500k and held in a castle in europe. Even your precious Artosis was there.
2 months ago
Anonymous
yea this is after microsoft stepped in and started supporting it bigly with cash, broodwar hasnt had support from blizzard practically ever and still mogs AOE by a massive margin
2 months ago
Anonymous
All that has big money in it has some support, whether from companies or from persons.
2 months ago
Anonymous
I no longer see a point to this discussion.
If I was about half my age, I would want to jump through the screen and strangle you, but I'm just disappointed at how blind you are.
I guess log back into WoW, since Blizzard is perfect and all. Enjoy. How's HoTS doing btw?
come back when you stop coping and pretending that their games had even 1/10th the success or influence of a single blizzard rts
I feel like you're missing the point. You don't need one or two big games (Which mostly have success because of re-releases, sales, battle-chests, spawns/demos/etc) vs having multiple successful series.
You could make the argument that they were killed when EA bought them, but I could make the argument that Blizzard was killed when Activision bought them.
You said greatest western dev.
Not Greatest Western RTS dev.
Fine, move the goal posts.
Here, find me a blizzard RTS with higher ratings than this. Since they make the best ones and everything.
You are so fricking stupid it's unbelievable.
It was a time and place thing.
The industry has changed so much, there is no chance of RTS ever coming back like that. If the next Beatles or Nirvana were playing today, it would get drowned in the sea of mumble rap and top40 pop garbage. People might read an article about a new rts and be like "huh, that's neat, glad that's being made" then go back to playing some Hoyoverse game on their phone.
Bring back proper writing, and not just mindless competitive balancing.
List of (western) developers that had a higher peak / prime that was higher/better than Blizzard at their highest prime:
Respawn
Larian
Remedy
Arkane
Obsidian Entertainment
Bioware
Looking Glass Studios
IOI Interactive
SuperGiant Games
Midway
Acclaim
Lionhead Studios
Neversoft
Radical Entertainment
Silicon Knights
Sierra
Amplitude Studios
Subset Games
Firaxis
Owlcat Games
Paradox Interactive
Naughty Dog
Sucker Punch
Valve
Rare
Retro Studios
Bethesda
Insomniac
Rockstar
Santa Monica Studios
Bungie (do not forget about Myth/Myth2 and Marathon)
Ubisoft (do not forget: old school rainbow six, splinter cell, rayman, etc.)
CD Projekt Red
Id Software
Westwood
12 Bay Studios
Megacrit Games
Brace Yourself Games
DICE
Eidos Montreal
Electronic Arts
Nightdive Studios
LucasArts
S.S.I.
Microprose / Simtex Software
Gearbox Software
Motion Twin
Interplay / Black Isle
Ludeon
Devolver Digital / Croteam
Apogee Software / 3D Realms
Frontier Developments
Hello Games (NMS redemption arc)
Hitting character limit. I won't continue, you get the point.
>Billion dollar franchise >Hidden Cup V just finished >Our THIRD tournament in a real medieval castle is being teased for later this year >More singleplayer content than the average person is capable of finishing >Custom scenarios, custom games in multiplayer galore >AOE3 and AOE4 in pretty fun states finally as well
Microsoft bought you, maybe we can have an in-game Star/Warcraft event for AOE2.
I wonder how many of those are new players, as in players who started playing after RTS "died" (2010 onwards?) and how many are originals from when the game came out
The best player in the world right now is Hera. He was born the same year AOE2 came out meaning he's 24 right now. A 20 and 22 year old also qualified for Hidden Cup V
It was delayed because the developer decided to release an awful demo that caused a shitstorm, so they delayed the game for a few months. The final version will be a polished turd.
many starcraft players never care the story in the first place. this is the same for FPS like Call of duty too, yet they still have big playerbase
but you are right about less focus on esport shit, it would help if more RTS games can appeal to broader casual audience like starcraft and Company of heroes did
Remake Starcarft 1. Let one player use MS/K for traditional controls. Let 4-5 players control units from an over the shoulder perspective using a controller. You wouldn't use the right analog as the vertical axis would be locked to keep the game mechanics. Players could take over any unit at any time and, as an scv they'd be just a little bit faster at mining, or as a marine they could get more damage from well placed shots.
Make it primarily single player focused. Kill all esports gays. Make the SP have soulful unique units and make sure the factions are very different from eachother.
make the AI good and make the campaign a progressive tutorial for competitive play. Instill good game instincts one at a time through missions. Right now it's the opposite.
>and make the campaign a progressive tutorial for competitive play
Frick off with your competitive asiaticclick. The singleplayer should be a fully fleshed out experience and the multiplayet should be about having fun, not stressing yourself out about APM and playing the meta.
>The singleplayer should be a fully fleshed out experience
Completely agree. But instead of >turtle for 30 minutes >one base the whole map
the missions should encourage you to take expansions, deny bases, consider your army composition, etc. >multiplayet should be about having fun, not stressing yourself out about APM and playing the meta.
you're asking for the impossible. Any real time game where you allow players to 1v1 each other is going to favor speed of execution. There will always be a meta. For a fun, non-competitive environment we used to have UMS. But, I can tell you, as an 8 year old I used to get flamed on sunken defense maps because I "didn't do it right". There's a meta for the fun stress free parts as well, and plenty of c**ts who enforce it
>the missions should encourage you to take expansions, deny bases, consider your army composition, etc.
Wow, it's almost as if Dawn of War did this in 2004.
>asiaticclick >apm
who said it needs apm?
you can have good rts with low apm
How to Revive RTS? Combine it with a shooter.
Remake Starcarft 1. Let one player use MS/K for traditional controls. Let 4-5 players control units from an over the shoulder perspective using a controller. You wouldn't use the right analog as the vertical axis would be locked to keep the game mechanics. Players could take over any unit at any time and, as an scv they'd be just a little bit faster at mining, or as a marine they could get more damage from well placed shots.
this was already done, see silica, natural selection 2, carrier command, etc...
the fps/rts genre of battlezone '98, battlezone 2, etc, is excellent, but, again, that doesn't work, because it's no longer an RTS. it's an RTS for 1 player and a shooter for the other 20+ players (see: Savage2)
>The last game we made failed to deliever, took too long to develop and most people were let down >Anyway, look at our new project!
What were they thinking?
You do it by running a scam patreon to relaunch a worse version of SC2, oh and you hire people who were tangentially involved with SC2 to lend credibility to the project.
I legit thought you were talking about the warcraft 3 archmage spell until i saw which post you were replying to
you know arbiters existed and did this in sc/bw before the gay mothership that cant even beat 1 marine with a medivac, right?
He wants everything turn-based. Basically he wants it like Dominion's gameplay.
this JUST got put on steam
i want to support the decision but dont want to give EA anymore money
i already bought the game in 2004 also.
any advice?
i DID buy c&c remastered on the EA app for $1.99, lol. please forgive me.
honestly, when you stop worrying about twitch numbers and how much clout you'll have for playing whatever game is popular, the RTS genre is in an EXCELLENT place right now.
Big games being played right now, still: Starcraft 2, AoE 2, AoE 4, CoH 2/3
C&C Collection just hit Steam. C&C net is still populated and playable. BAR is the best TA clone on the market and always has a few dozen games going. Age of mythology getting a remaster coming this year. AoE 2 still getting DLCs. 9 Bit armies just dropped with a coop campaign and mod support out of the gate. Company of heroes 3 just dropped and is pretty popular. Dune Spice wars and northgard are going strong. Homeworlds have been remastered. There's more RTS's coming this year - like the one being made by blizzard devs... stormgate maybe? More C&C clones are being talked about, red alert 2 remasters being rumored.
It's a great frickign time to be an RTS fan.
stormgate is dogshit i played the """beta""" (pre-pre-pre-alpha) for 12 hours
homeworld 3 is also dogshit. the demo wargames game MODE was sort of interesting but the design decisions are beyond fricked and the actual ship movement and micro and combat is total dogshit.
tempest rising got delayed (Again)
crossfire legion is still dead
DORF looks good but is vaporware
BAR is fantastic, as is Zero-K but they've been around for a long time.
9 bit armies is fricking good in coop i strongly recommend it.
i do play on C&C net sometimes.
i played a lot of sc2 but kind of stropped pushing after i hit diamond 2. i just dont enjoy LotV the balance and pacing is dogshit. i miss WoL a lot.
/thread
SC2 killed itself and everything around it. Even if they release SC3 and try to artificially revive the esport scene like they did with overwatch it will still die within a month. NOBODY cares anymore. People think they do but look at fricking stormslop. 10 minutes of playing and you know you won't be wasting your 30s with getting good at. It can be the best rts in the world and people won't play it. As for custom games. Just for forget about those. Nobody will make a custom game if he can make the same game in a better engine and ask money for it.
>SC3 >'they'
The company that made SC2 doesn't exist.
The people who made SC2 have all left that company. About 40% of them are "working" on Stormgate - the rest are working for other companies.
You are so fricking stupid it's unbelievable.
It was a time and place thing.
The industry has changed so much, there is no chance of RTS ever coming back like that. If the next Beatles or Nirvana were playing today, it would get drowned in the sea of mumble rap and top40 pop garbage. People might read an article about a new rts and be like "huh, that's neat, glad that's being made" then go back to playing some Hoyoverse game on their phone.
[...]
Is this the canceled generals 2?
No, this is when Bioware was the big name for them so they renamed the guys that did the C&C games to Bioware West or something. It was the same team that did C&C3, RA3, and C&C4.
AI controls huge number of fodder troops and fights other AI over general position and line.
Humans use special forces and attack key points/ disrupt econ/ tip battle
You can choose what strat your AI fodder general will use and give vague orders like advance over in this direction.
This is exactly how I played DoW with UA. I would provide the artillery and fortification support to set out the battlelines and the AI carries the main brunt of the fight. Then using a mix of dropships and chimeras engage in hit and run attacks on isolated listening posts and weak points in the line. Worked well enough against large blob armies like the Nids but daemons had a funny habit of taking entire salvos of arty fire to the face without flinching. Greater daemons suck ass to fight without some specialized forces or a metric shit ton of tanks to throw at them.
No.
There are many TA forks / "clones" / TA-style games.
Zero-K has a completely different unit progression system; BAR is from Balanced Annihilation Remastered - ("Beyond All Reason" being the ... 'legally distinct' version...)
Zero-K has a completely different approach - rather than 2 factions, you get 1 factory for free at the start of the map and that's kind of your "faction" ...
>Cloakbot Factory. >Shieldbot Factory. >Rover Assembly. >Hovercraft Platform. >Gunship Plant. >Airplane Plant. >Spider Factory. >Jumpbot Factory.
About midway through the match it might make sense to transition into another group of units. But you can play entire games off the one factory and they're balanced around being starting picks (aside from the airplane ones, I wouldn't start with those unless it's 4v4 and you start in the back)
but yes, it's a very mechanically similar when playing but the units are all divergent from TA.
It has a really cool campaign where you slowly unlock units and upgrade your commander unit
It's unpolished but for the low low price of ABSOLUTELY FRICKING FREE it's a really fun/cool experience. Some of the maps are very hard on the hardest difficulty, don't feel like you have to play on it, especially at first.
The coop vs ai is great too and there are maps designed to be like a wave defense / horde defense mode as well. The community is great. You can get it from steam or you can play it without steam, up to you. It wasnt on steam for many years but more recently it's there for visibility and "convenience" - please enjoy it at your own pace and don't get too overwhelmed. The campaign starts you out with just the one factory and slowly introduces the units, which is probably easier than jumping into multiplayer and being like "omg there's so much shit wtf do i build"
I agree. It wouldn't be a bad idea to relieve the player of micromanagement, giving him more to focus on tactics and managing elite units or supporting main forces.
I agree. It wouldn't be a bad idea to relieve the player of micromanagement, giving him more to focus on tactics and managing elite units or supporting main forces.
Supreme Commander did it in 2007. It was pure ludo.
I agree. It wouldn't be a bad idea to relieve the player of micromanagement, giving him more to focus on tactics and managing elite units or supporting main forces.
>remove the entire point of strategy games and make it autoplay
see how Victoria 3 turned out with microless combat (shit)
honestly, when you stop worrying about twitch numbers and how much clout you'll have for playing whatever game is popular, the RTS genre is in an EXCELLENT place right now.
Big games being played right now, still: Starcraft 2, AoE 2, AoE 4, CoH 2/3
C&C Collection just hit Steam. C&C net is still populated and playable. BAR is the best TA clone on the market and always has a few dozen games going. Age of mythology getting a remaster coming this year. AoE 2 still getting DLCs. 9 Bit armies just dropped with a coop campaign and mod support out of the gate. Company of heroes 3 just dropped and is pretty popular. Dune Spice wars and northgard are going strong. Homeworlds have been remastered. There's more RTS's coming this year - like the one being made by blizzard devs... stormgate maybe? More C&C clones are being talked about, red alert 2 remasters being rumored.
It's a great frickign time to be an RTS fan.
this is even excluding rts adjacent shit like hearts of iron or farthest frontier or crusader kings or anno.
Also, SINS 2 is just hit early access, dune spice wars just added the 'ordos' equiv, homeworld 3 coming soon.
RTS is so try hard, normal people can't play them to any degree of skill.
Custom games are dead with the advent of game engines to make custom games, so no point in making custom RTS maps when you could make a real game and sell it
>make it easier
Tooth and Tail did this and you didn't buy it. Great game for what it is but very simplified compared to a 'real' RTS.
worse than age of empires
It has 4 player splitscreen. The "hearthstone" of RTS.
Break RTS up into stages/turns >Build base turn, spend some time designing your base and building soldiers you want >Next turn is ordering them around. No micro managing, just sending forces to places and taking locations >Turn goes back to base building >reverts to war
basically a combination of Turn based and RTS combat with simplified macro
RTS at its purest is just too tryhard. Who has 10,000 hours to get good at something?
Mechabellum, the future of RTS - autobattler garbage.
>RTS is in an EXCELLENT place right now, just look at all these games from a decade ago
/thread
SC2 killed itself and everything around it. Even if they release SC3 and try to artificially revive the esport scene like they did with overwatch it will still die within a month. NOBODY cares anymore. People think they do but look at fricking stormslop. 10 minutes of playing and you know you won't be wasting your 30s with getting good at. It can be the best rts in the world and people won't play it. As for custom games. Just for forget about those. Nobody will make a custom game if he can make the same game in a better engine and ask money for it.
half that post was about new shit and 2 of the games included in the still popular realm came out in the last year or so. if you didn't want to read the post don't bother replying dumbass
while i don't think they can improve the game graphically at all, i do wish it was remastered to add some more modern settings to play with, especially in keybinds / queueing / tabs and such. it is funny that it had the early versions of several things like that though.
>the missions should encourage you to take expansions, deny bases, consider your army composition, etc.
Wow, it's almost as if Dawn of War did this in 2004.
[...]
It still looks great though?
Not that guy but if they made an RTS that had the same gritty apocalyptic feeling where the environment was just as dangerous as the other army I would really like it.
Aoe already revived it and age of mythology is going to come out that makes it ao2 de, aoe4 and soon to be aom in the top 100 most played steam games. Starcraft and blizzard trannies can ACK to a superior RTS.
this is unironically true. aoe is proving to be the pinnacle of RTS design, not whatever korean homosexual wants to think about starcraft or french homosexual thinks about wc3
also BAR is probably the best RTS being developed right now and it's fricking FREE
Good, decently sized, campaigns are basically the only way. No one actually cares about competitive RTS. The SC tournament scene was basically a fluke between streaming kicking off mixed with people getting some kind of nostalgia high from the custom maps days.
WC3/SC were basically the Roblox of their era.
Break RTS up into stages/turns >Build base turn, spend some time designing your base and building soldiers you want >Next turn is ordering them around. No micro managing, just sending forces to places and taking locations >Turn goes back to base building >reverts to war
basically a combination of Turn based and RTS combat with simplified macro
RTS at its purest is just too tryhard. Who has 10,000 hours to get good at something?
I always wished there were ranked modes in SC2 for different speeds. I don't want to be an APM maniac playing on "faster" speed. I'm ok with playing on normal speed or slower and having the game take longer. Especially true as I get older. RTS with reasonable speed so you can micro battles would be cool.
inb4 skill issue - I was master league on both NA and Korean ladders back in the day.
>Sins of a Solar Empire
Kill Vasari. Behead Vasari. Roundhouse kick a Vasari into the concrete. Slam dunk Vasari slave babies into a waste disposal unit. Airlock filthy Vasari. Defecate in Vasari food. Launch Vasari into the sun. Stir fry Vasari in a wok. Toss Vasari into stabilized blackholes. Urinate into Vasari antimatter tanks. Judo throw Vasari into a fusion reactor. Twist Vasari heads off. Report Vasari to the TEC. Karate chop Vasari in half. Curb stomp pregnant Vasari slaves. Trap Vasari in a plasma storm. Crush Vasari in the matter compressor. Liquefy Vasari in a vat of acid. Eat Vasari. Dissect Vasari. Exterminate Vasari in the gas chambers. Stomp Vasari skulls with steel toed moonboots. Cremate Vasari in the blast furnaces. Lobotomize Vasari. Mandatory abortions for Vasari slaves. Grind Vasari slave fetuses in the waste disposal. Drown Vasari in industrial grease. Vaporize Vasari homeworlds with a Novalith Cannon. Kick old Vasari down a flight of stairs. Feed Vasari to space pirates. Slice Vasari with an industrial plasma cutter.
Dunno haven't played it but they are about 3/4 of the way done via EA on Timmy's store. The cool parts about it now is that you can directly influence construction on the planets themselves and ships have the ability to adjust their loadouts. At least from what I was reading that seemed like the case. Not a big fan of dropping strikecraft support on pic relate unless you have a guaranteed way to offset that like adding additional point defense with garda flak turrets to keep the buzzards off.
Dunno haven't played it but they are about 3/4 of the way done via EA on Timmy's store. The cool parts about it now is that you can directly influence construction on the planets themselves and ships have the ability to adjust their loadouts. At least from what I was reading that seemed like the case. Not a big fan of dropping strikecraft support on pic relate unless you have a guaranteed way to offset that like adding additional point defense with garda flak turrets to keep the buzzards off.
YOUR LACK OF COMMITMENT SHALL -NOT- GO UNPUNISHED!
The concept didn't exist back then as it does now (and neither did the word "race", depending on which political or ethnic entity were you to consider, whether linguistically or conceptually), because racial strife exploits ethnicity line blurring to merge masses of vastly different ethnicities into one an easily exploitable pile, it's a lever for fools.
One of the consequences of ill-thought globalism is disruption of normal ethnical dislike geography, which ironically provided defense against actual racism by preventing dissolution in unification.
Not at all. It's too weighed down by previous experiences. The early RTSs were so great because they just came up with the most basic concepts by themselves, they didn't have such a precise manual to follow on how to make an RTS. That's what made Warcraft and Age of Empires so good
Not to mention that everything has to appeal to le esport audience. That is just the wrong way to approach it
These are good fricking games but they aren't RTS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-pl7_KncuY
Based Eurasian Dynasty Chad
Break RTS up into stages/turns >Build base turn, spend some time designing your base and building soldiers you want >Next turn is ordering them around. No micro managing, just sending forces to places and taking locations >Turn goes back to base building >reverts to war
basically a combination of Turn based and RTS combat with simplified macro
RTS at its purest is just too tryhard. Who has 10,000 hours to get good at something?
Not that anon, but I prefer M.A.X.2.
Also reminder that the Robotic Walker is pure rape if you are playing against the Concord + Humans as the Sheevat.
Seriously, that humanoid tank murders Sheevat in an instant the moment the latter's shields are down.
It’s too hard. It’s like saying “how do we make every student in this college take organic chemistry?”
Not gonna happen, only a few dedicated people are willing to take on that challenge (and about half of them fail). most people are doing other things, which is fine.
So yeah, I don’t think there is a way to “revive” RTS unless you change it so much that it becomes easy for the masses. But then it may no longer be an RTS.
Populous: The Beginning might be old, it might be incredibly aged and flawed even for its time, but it was so much fun to play through its campaign and I wish we had more games that blended RTS with God Games in a satisfactory manner. UNAGA
>release RTS >people love it >esport/streamer crowd gets there hands on it >"the game is good, BUT I would change..." >company subjects game to endless changes and 'balances' ultimately pleasing no one >frick this game >completely forgotten shortly after
Honestly, it's pretty average. The thing is it's just too different from the previous games. People were ragging on C&C 3 because it's not exactly the same as the old games and 4 went even crazier. The always-online thing didn't help either. It came out right at the time when EA was its most cancerous and 4 was right at the thick of it.
How mindbroken do you have to be to give that game a "pretty average"
It's frickin horrible
It's nothing like command and conquer
C&C Rivals on my fricking phone played more like C&C than C&C4
David Kim, former lead designer on SC2 is working on an unannounced RTS that all the biggest RTS streamers went for an NDA'ed demo this past week. Stormgate is also coming probably next year and seems alright.
He's lead on a third unannounced RTS at 'Uncapped Games'. Artosis, Tasteless, Rotterdam, and a bunch of other RTS streamers spent this past week with him, probably giving feedback on it. There's potentially an RTS renaissance coming
There's also the new Star Wars RTS from Respawn's subsidiary which consisted of former Firaxis and Westwood people. And by the looks of it, they're planning big with it.
Remembering playing that Dota map "Extreme Candy War" solo in Warcraft 3 and just enjoying farming gold and upgrading the units until you'd eventually won. Or that Starcraft 2 where you had to eliminate obstacles so the terran could make its way through.
Is there any other RTS with similar gameplay out there or shouldn't that kind of game not be called RTS?
Citybuiders are shit. Settlers 2 and 3 are the only ones that had right ideas about it, everything after might as well not exist as it did exactly frick all in pushing genre forward.
I think I only played one of the titles over ten years ago but the Spellforce games are supposed to be this mix of RTS and only using a party of heroes but with mostly RTS controls.
There's better odds of 90's point and click games coming back than RTS. The problem with the genre is it becomes less about strategy and more of who can execute a build order faster via high APM... and this is coming from somebody that loves Brood War. BW was particularly exciting to watch when witnessing incredible micro plays, but I figure if you're going to get good at that sort of thing you may as well try to be a pro MOBA player. SC2 completely eliminated micro because Blizzard is run by idiots, and without that everyone realized that genre is repetitive as shit and boring to watch.
It's no longer about upgrading armies and sending them at the opposing army, but the shady deals you have to make with secret societies and political organizations to convince those armies it's a good idea to go to war in the first place. Eventually Time Strategy.
Honestly? Tempest Rising is actually more into the original C&C area instead of the Generals one. With some RA3 in it if you add that not!Nod has a literal tank-crushing ball as a unit.
We just need a new Blizzard.
A new Blizzard without DEI and with people that actually love making video games. Would be great if some of the old guard came back.
By making a trifaction RTS medieval style game where the faction are in that order, the human dominion, a kingdome of mostly full blood human with a supremacist feudal ideoligion, it would have as you would expect brave knights, siege weapon along with tamed colonial tribal anthro auxiliary police that believe in the human supremacy, the dominion units and building are more expensive but are generally superior to the other factions building, the second faction would be the savage, various tribals encampments that, as their name imply they are made up exclusively of barely intelligent anthro, they are technologically inferior in every way compared to the dominion, still stuck in the Neolithic age, they worship totems, and various gods, they see human as disgusting (but arousing) creatures their units would consist of fast cheap expendable warriors that can hide in the vegetations that are dangerous in the early stages, the last faction is the resistance, made up of local anthro warchief that decided to team up to have a better fighting chance against the dominion, they are technologically supperior to the savage by a slim margin, they not only believe that human are inferior but that they must be enslaven for various purpose, mostly made up of anthros and human slaves, they are a mix of the savages and the dominion in term of units and building
This indie game called Line war has what people are asking for. Slower gameplay, less micro intensive, simpler controls. Sadly the game never really caught on, 10000 map seeds so every game could be unique or players could agree to play any seed so some became favorites. 2 dudes developed it who were very active with the community, hosting tournaments. Hell even used a true skill ranked system not the modern bronze to masters shit
A lot of people really liked pic related, and the popularity of MOBAs seem to hint at people liking the focus on micromanaging one (or just a few) heroes with RTS controls. It's a shame that there's no PVE MOBA that occupies the space between RTS and the way more fast paced and theorycrafting focused ARPG games.
there's some dota events usually based around fighting bosses and waves of ai and mini games
they brought them back multiple times and they go away quickly
and there was league's twisted tree lines which got deleted because it was "boring" because people just played the objective and ignored the enemy team until it came to pushing
The Last Stand mode for DoW II probably comes across as being the closest thing, gearing a hero unit and micromanaging it with two others in a wave-based survival mode. It was decently popular, surprised Relic didn't pull it out for DoW III.
Limiting it to one game mode is pretty unfortunate, what do you do if you don't specifically like the wave defense mode? I never played last stand but DoW II's campaign was pretty fun but a bit linear.
there's some dota events usually based around fighting bosses and waves of ai and mini games
they brought them back multiple times and they go away quickly
and there was league's twisted tree lines which got deleted because it was "boring" because people just played the objective and ignored the enemy team until it came to pushing
>there's some dota events usually based around fighting bosses and waves of ai and mini games >they brought them back multiple times and they go away quickly
That sounds like half-assed afterthought and not a game designed around the idea >and there was league's twisted tree lines which got deleted because it was "boring" because people just played the objective and ignored the enemy team until it came to pushing
I played the shit out of TT and I don't remember this being the case ever. The small map made ganking very frequent and since there were only 3 creep camps on your side of the map (after the remake) the jungler was forced to invade or gank constantly specifically because there was so little creeping to do. I wouldn't say that map was anymore PVE than Summoner's Rift, arguably it was less PVE because the objectives mattered even less.
>not a game designed around the idea
they couldn't ever do that because that would keep people from playing competitive
it's also why they killed the arcade section in dota >this being the case ever
basically the game mode got less popular over time and the meta changed and so less people played it even more and riot didn't want to put money into making actual fun game modes or characters instead of power creeping everything into one dash instant kills unless you are a ranged character who right clicks which you then get cucked for eternity which is the reason why I quit that game a decade ago
>they couldn't ever do that because that would keep people from playing competitive >it's also why they killed the arcade section in dota
I would hope it's economically viable to focus on single player stuff, since they keep pumping out DLCs for AoE2 I assume they still make money from people who just want to chill and play the campaign.
Singleplayer mechanic intense games just simply don't sell it's why all the top selling singleplayer shit is linear press button do epic
it sucks and modding in games is dead so there's not a lot of places you can find anything remotely similar
Ig the closest thing would be some indie game like a roguelite or like or whatever the frick they call it
>DoW II's campaign was pretty fun but a bit linear.
just play the campaign in coop then.
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go play your command on shitter and age of feces, theres not one american studio that reached the highs of blizzard in their peak years, and they did that on the back of the RTS and ARPG genre
they were the kings, and the only reason the genre was as massive as it was, theres a reason starcraft is still played on TV in korea and no on gives a frick about AOE of CaC
koreans are autistic morons who give themselves carpal tunnel. pc bangs are popular there because everyone's too poor to own a pc.
if you seriously think starcraft / warcraft 3 are better games than every single TBS, FPS, RPG, whatever, you're beyond worth even trying to argue with.
The guy you're replying to wasn't even talking about C&C or AoE, he mentioned Homeworld (an actual masterpiece), DoW, and CoH (more tactical, less click-speed RTS)
Diablo 2 and LoD were their biggest hits at the time, these were not RTS, nor were they made by Blizzard directly. SC:BW wasn't really an esport in korea until like 2003.
Maxis was king, even at that period, just off of the sims, or Rockstar, with GTA3. Deus Ex, THPS 2, MSR, MediEvil 2, Perfect Dark, Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, NOLF, Sacrifice, AoE II: The Conquerers, EverQuest: Ruins of Kunark, Homeworld: Cataclysm, WWF: No Mercy, MDK 2, Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver, Quake III: Team Arena, etc, all came out that year.
If you're going by sales, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1, 2, Madden NFL 2001, and The Sims, all sold more than Diablo 2.
Since you called them the "American Nintendo" I feel it's worth mentioning that Pokemon Stadium, Red/Blue/Yellow, Gold/Silver/ and of course Majora's Mask / OoT, all sold much more in the same time, up through double in some aspects, and that's just looking at the american market.
The Last Stand mode for DoW II probably comes across as being the closest thing, gearing a hero unit and micromanaging it with two others in a wave-based survival mode. It was decently popular, surprised Relic didn't pull it out for DoW III.
at that point, you might as well play a diablo like ARPG game instead.
It's different from any ARPG I've ever played, in terms of controls, pacing, resource management and probably more things I can't think of at the moment. It shares some similarities but it's far from a 1:1 comparison.
>he never played the kino that was demigod
I never did, I looked up some gameplay and it just looks like a singleplayer MOBA?
Total War Warhammer. Did WC3 have a version of it too? Or is that an implanted memory
You might like Spellforce.
I mean really really like Spellforce.
There's a free demo of Spellforce III. Try them.
Competitor is more adequate, and ultimately both won, as both series are art to the keen, both withstood time tests, both made history in the gaming world, and both are extremely enjoyable.
However ultimately Blizzard got a shorter end of a stick because they survived long enough to start rotting.
It's rather miraculous that SC2 went as well as it did, one can say.
This guy is like arguing about Pizza vs Ice Cream, both suck!
GO PLAY MYTH/MYTH2/MECHCOMMANDER/MECHCOMMANDERGOLD/MECHCOMMANDER2/COMMANDOS/FALLOUTTACTICS/ETC
I think I briefly tried Spellforce I or II (or watched my big brother play it) like one and a half decades ago, do they need to be played in order (and have the older titles aged well) or should I just dive straight into III?
3 is a prequel timewise, but also messed up some lore from the first game that a lot of older fans weren't happy about. I'd go into 3 right away. In fact if anyone has thought about playing any Spellforce I'd say get the standalone expansion Fallen God, its campaign is a great 20-30 hour experience
SHOW ME WHAT PASSES FOR FURY IN YOUR MISBEGOTTEN KIND
RUUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
It's pretty easy, just shift all your competitive ranks up where even the shittiest player will feel good about themselves saying they're this rank and add a bunch of confusing sounding ranks for the actual good players where it doesn't sound appealing to the layman. Then people won't care as much about their rank.
Giving a lot of customization and modding is the main thing. Like actually allowing custom models, textures, etc. As a kid I played more mods than the vanilla RTS game itself.
And the various shitty AoE2 and AoM mods.
Biggest difficulty in RTS is hotkeys and build orders. There should be some easy statistical build order UI for players that's super simple to understand so players can copy paste that and where it's shown in casual games what to do.
Add a way to make new accounts easily or reset stats. This will make players less stressed about learning & losing in an RTS because they can start fresh again.
Smurf detection where it highlights players smurfing in an easy understandable manner.
StarCraft 2 ruined other rts games for me
It has dogshit story, art direction and music, but amazing unit control
It plays like an RTS game in the apex years of 2d RTS
i actually didnt completely hate the campaign levels in wings of liberty.
the other campaigns really sucked though.
i do like how good it feels to move units around in. most games are not that responsive, which is really sad.
Anyone remember what was that RTS game that had magic cards monsters summons, I think it also was by EA too.
It had really giant monsters too. It was in those earlier, Warhammer Fantasy MMO times.
>i do like how good it feels to move units around in. most games are not that responsive, which is really sad.
SC2 is the most responsive RTS ever, units feel like liquid when they move around. Other good games like Red Alert 2 suddenly feel very clunky when tanks constantly zig zag or AoE2 where they do weird turns and reshuffle just to stay in formation.
>units feel like liquid when they move around
This is why it doesn't fricking work.
Giant balls of units that move like one big unit leads to shitty deathballing and massing --> A-move armies. Especially protoss.
If you're a mech fan I can understand why you'd want some big unit that moves at 5 MPH and creates a minor earthquake every time it moves its legs, but very fluid and responsive movements feel better to play and translate better over to other gamemodes. That being said I understand SC2 being a bit too floaty, personally I prefer WC3 where units have a noticeably bigger hitbox and bodyblocking actually matters beyond "ok during one point of the game one race can use the zealot to block a choke vs zerglings".
>"ok during one point of the game one race can use the zealot to block a choke vs zerglings".
This is bad game design. Terran can lift a depot
Protoss, an infinitely advanced civilization beyond our wildest dreams, haven't come up with a fricking door system? Can't they make a pylon phase in and out of existence or something? It's pathetic.
>barely any singleplayer content >barely differentiates itself from supcom and still doesn't hold candle to greatness of TA >ultimate rts
Surely you jest.
he means multiplayer-wise. the 30vs30 aspect especially.
Yeah, that's the one!
yeah i miss that game
did you get to play End of Nations while it was still playable?
asiaticclick slop is the future of RTS.
the sad thing is people were actually excited about this piece of shit total starcraft ripoff
yeah every game should have positioning not matter at all like sc2 where you can throw stuff in a 500mph dropship or warp in units anywhere on the map or nydus worm to anywhere on the map or ruin the game for 2+ years because of swarm hosts spawning infinite units from half the map away yeah man really good
2 months ago
Anonymous
>did you get to play End of Nations while it was still playable?
Nope. As usual, I missed everything there ever was.
By the way, wiki says that Battleforge was actually revived!
https://www.skylords.eu/
2 months ago
Anonymous
>the sad thing is people were actually excited about this piece of shit total starcraft ripoff
hey don't you be talking like that. it ripped something off mass effect too.
>units feel like liquid when they move around
This is why it doesn't fricking work.
Giant balls of units that move like one big unit leads to shitty deathballing and massing --> A-move armies. Especially protoss.
Wings of Liberty is the least offensive campaign, but it has its own share of colossal narrative moronation >1st cutscene establishes Tychus to be working for Mengsk >sir, this Tychus guy is a shady character >last cutscene has Tychus *gasp* working for Mengsk >Raynor simping for Kerrigan >the completely irrelevant mutiny plotline
It also has a problem of not knowing what to tell and what to show >colonist escort mission >hybrids being the ultimate threat, but are just a big dumb beast that slashes things
Anyone remember what was that RTS game that had magic cards monsters summons, I think it also was by EA too.
It had really giant monsters too. It was in those earlier, Warhammer Fantasy MMO times.
When they were super popular you had 2 sorts of people playing RTS games: competitive multiplayers and then Everyone else.
Competitive multiplayer RTS is fundamentally imperfect: RTS's by nature have snowballing, so when 1 players starts winning a little they win progressively more which is very frustrating, very unfun for the loser. So the in a maybe 10 minutes long match half the people your game have a shit time. This is why multiplayer games today are in genres not prone to snowballing, but also have specific features preventing it. You could say MOBAs were the perfection of the imperfect multiplayer RTS.
This will never, ever, ever get solved, ever. You will never, ever, ever have a huge competitive RTS scene again. It was purely a result of a.) some developers only knowing how to make RTSs so they make them, and b.) Competitive fans not having anything better to play with. There could be comp RTS in future but it will only be built on the back of a thriving singleplayer audience.
This still leaves Everyone else, however. "Casuals" "losers" "scrubs" "girls" etc still like games where you build things, train soldiers, accumulate an army and power, manage an economy and then watch a battle. The Everyone else crowd has dispersed to different genres like citybuilders, survival games, grand strategy and more.
The only way the RTS genre will be revived is if it goes full into appealing to the singleplayer fans of RTS's.
They want base building (unlike DoW2), persistent characters (like C&C and Warcraft 1 started), campaign story (every successful RTS had one), campaign interactivity (like DoW Dark Crusade where you pick what battle you fight next), customisation (paint schemes like Relic RTSs). And they want to actually be able to watch the fun battles, and that's why people still insisted on playing Supreme Commander zoomed in seeing units instead of zoomed out with unit icons.
I assume SC success in comp sphere is likely due to, among other things, smart business choices by Blizz in regards to Koreans, but it's just an assumption, I never cared about SC to that extent at all, only played it for an hour or so. >competitive RTS scene
As with all scenes, it's a zeitgeist matter.
>They want base building (unlike DoW2)
If it's a hero focused game then I could go make do without this one. It could be fun to have some form of base management (like making grander decisions on how to run your kingdom/personal estates, granting different bonuses or campaign outcomes) but every mission doesn't have to have the same "put X workers on gold and build supply buildings+barracks" base building.
By the way, it's funny that with this approach, essentially no one enjoys the game. The defeated, seeing the snowball rolling towards his base, after the defeat of his troops, will simply press alt+f4. And the winner will not be given the pleasure to smash the base of another player.
In the end, everyone was left unsatisfied.
It'll circle back around, it always does. I remember when RTS killed off turn based strategy in the late 90s early 00s. TBS is having something of a renaissance right now and RTS will come around again.
Did some good turn based strat game come out? Another civ clone come out? Has someone made a civ clone that limits units to like 10 and instead units just get more powerful. Spending 10 minutes a turn moving/attacking with 50 units is so tiresome once late mid game sets in.
>barely any singleplayer content >barely differentiates itself from supcom and still doesn't hold candle to greatness of TA >ultimate rts
Surely you jest.
A true game fan appreciates things as they are, much like with all other art, all these games are great. Trash talking with pretenses on the other hand, is neither objective nor beautiful.
>split campaign into 3 separate games >still charge people for nova covert ops >still charge people $5 for coop commanders despite no development on it for years >somehow blizz still has revenue stream from this, people still buy skins for their units
how could you possibly compete
C&C gave humanity Klepacki music, which alone is grand. It's so wondrous that it's genius.
true
All you need to BW, its the greatest game ever made
i mean it's up there, but...
Pretty much, hence why out of all RTS it's these big two that set the tone.
I remember reading a nice article in early 2000 game journal about the two, man, I miss those times. It was exciting.
Installing Tiberium Dawn for the first time was spooky though, that talking mouth scared me aplenty.
Yeah and being an early game in a genre means you significantly contributed to its innovation.
A silly point to complain about, majority strategy games are typically either Warcraft/Starcraft clones, or Dune/C&C clones, or outliers, like TA.
Having genre influence is par course with them being early era games.
you guys are fricking this up
warcraft was a dune2 clone
warcraft 2 was a c&c clone
you're saying they're both influential but you're like fricking up the reality here
westwood = soundgarden/screaming trees/mudhoney
blizzard = pearl jam/nirvana/stone temple pilots
>they've kind of made all the commanders free now.
no?
up until level 5
thats it
you still have to pay
for every commander except raynor/artanis/kerrigan
It's not bait, that chart is proof that the e-sports crowd was wrong all along but now that you're presented with evidence you refuse to acknowledge it.
A silly point to complain about, majority strategy games are typically either Warcraft/Starcraft clones, or Dune/C&C clones, or outliers, like TA.
Having genre influence is par course with them being early era games.
>or outliers, like TA.
TA was a very successful game.
So was KKnD, AoE, Dark Reign (a C&C clone, but DR2 was not), Dungeon Keeper (Yes, sort of an RTS), Dominant Species / Impossible Creatures, War Wind, Machines, Z, etc...
In fact the only ones I can think of that actually failed at the time were Dominion: Storm over Gift 3 and maybe 7th Legion.
RTS was just a very popular genre at teh time.
>7th Legion
Frick me I haven't thought of that game in decades. I remember playing it on my old Win98 PC thinking I was having fun. Then I got Red Alert 2.
It is okay but it is a game that would never do well commercially. >ugly to look at, some units are unrecognizable mess of pixels >early access >very heavy online focus >no marketing whatsoever
>All it takes is for a company that isn't publicly traded to make one, public companies demand constant growth and rts is niche.
you didnt buy crossfire legion
both, duh
ghosts are more OP but spectres "Seemed" more OP
story reasons it's better to pick tosh since he actually has fricking dialogue and stays on your ship
>the lights
pure ludokino...
how can people think warcraft 3 was the best rts when shit like this came out years before and had fully rotateable 3d camera and customizable units and underground tunneling and shit like this
I play this game but i dont use steam so i dont count in your numbers
i think many people from my era / age would avoid steam if they can and use the gog versions or the original disc versions
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yea the custom maps were great, tower defense and footman frenzy and shit, but i mean the actual fricking game, who cares?
i know people who bought the game just to play dota, never touched campaign or 1v1/4v4
WC3 only remembered as fondly because of custom maps, it wouldn't have nearly as much impact, recognition and staying power without them.
Probably because the story, music, sound design, tone, art style, characters, customisation, and snappy gameplay were far superior. Oh yeah, and they had the best cinematics in the industry.
I mean, only couple cutscenes are highly detailed, I get your point, but the Warcraft 3 cinematics were just on another level, as if you were watching best fantasy cgi movie in history, even warcraft movie from 2016 wasn't even that impressive in comparison, just more shiny and face capture more detailed, nothing special
kek I loved this game as a little guy. I didn't remember the cutscene being so long
2 months ago
Anonymous
rofl the heads on pikes
i was gonna mention this game earlier but i didnt
>the sad thing is people were actually excited about this piece of shit total starcraft ripoff
hey don't you be talking like that. it ripped something off mass effect too.
right, there's like, relationship stretch goal or something...sad.
>>the brief 3rd person sequence showcasing the Total Xenos Death simulator that we never got
uhh anon?
https://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/55150/
Please give me a Dawn of War remake, it's a game that is still relatively alive even to this day
>Soulstorm >697, playing a min ago >1,057, 24-hour peak
Those are really good numbers considering how old it is and how niche RTS is today. A remake could genuinely develop a community like AoE2 remake did, and be sufficiently popular to continue to receive support. I'm not sure if I'd trust modern Relic with a remake, but considering all they'd have to do is remake a past game it shouldn't be too difficult.
Plus it's split between singleplayers, last stand, and multiplayer. I used to play Retribution a lot and I have faith that even today you can find games relatively easily.
Soulstorm people still play because of the Unification mod, but I think the other expansions had better campaigns.
I am particularly fond the Necron one and Winter Assault.
love how this applies to even mediocre games like Grey Goo
I play this game but i dont use steam so i dont count in your numbers
i think many people from my era / age would avoid steam if they can and use the gog versions or the original disc versions
Because of custom maps and heroes
Warcraft 3 is really great for RTS players that don't like RTS
yea the custom maps were great, tower defense and footman frenzy and shit, but i mean the actual fricking game, who cares?
i know people who bought the game just to play dota, never touched campaign or 1v1/4v4
Rts is a dead genre >gaming become to casual now >why make rts when some generic shooter makes you billion
Your only hope for rts now are indie solo devs
If Starcraft 3 to ever release with current blizzard in charge(lol), then I would want to return back to southern federation routes of 1st starcraft for terran, no satire bullshit, make zerg scary again and not just sentient bugs, make protoss mysterious and scary, make the combat gritty and realisticish, gore should on the menu, also fire anyone who worked on sc2 script and hire other writers with experience in military documentation and political struggle in sovereign countries.
1. design it so that harassing isn't such a c**ty game mechanic or possibly it shouldn't exist at all and feel like an actual tactical move instead of sending 1 footsoldier somewhere to hack at your lumberjacks. Supreme Commander was quite good with this, you couldn't really harass people unless you actually put in a bit of effort into forming a proper attack army because the defensive turrets were balanced in a way where single attacking bombers or tanks would get killed by a turret very quickly but if you had 10 t1 tanks (which is still cheap to produce) it could be a great attack. But you had to invest into using your factory for making 10 t1 tanks instead of upgrading it which was also very valuable.
2. put far more emphasis on the strategic element, diplomacy game modes, phantom game mode. It's a strategy game for a reason, not a tactics game. RTS games died because only autistic people want to play squad tactic micro management
3. RTS games are supposed to have epic looking bases, what is this 5 building shit
>RTS games are supposed to have epic looking bases, what is this 5 building shit
I wish there was an RTS that let you build a Sim City like giant settlements (simplifying the management part) and have actual mass destruction.
dropping bombs on a residential area would be way more satisfying than 1-3 designated production buildings.
doesn't look much bigger than AoE except army sizes. Big army games exist, I mean bigger base building.
Anno lets you battle but it sucks because its very simplified and not the main focus of the game.
>I wish there was an RTS that let you build a Sim City like giant settlements (simplifying the management part) and have actual mass destruction.
Imperium Galactica II got very close to this since you had contend with orbital and ground invasions in real time. If you were efficient you could have your residential districts covered with rocket forts while the planetary defense guns assist any fleets and starbases stationed in orbit. It depresses me at how neglected ground combat is in general for space games like it is an instant game over once the main fleet is gone. MoO 2 did this shit like 20+ years ago with some races having defense bonuses associated with the concept. Sure your average metasweat might just glass the whole planet but there much more room for potential if you expand on these areas. You could have a GLA tier insurgency effort that plays out on the planet while the enemy tries to contend with whatever relief force that you send. Planets become a finite resource that can't just be nuked without a justifiable cause like a denial of territory or last ditch efforts
squad tactic games are a big reason why RTS games died. No longer could you buy an RTS game on the shelves and be sure that you would get a proper game with base building and armies. Instead you get the most dumbed down baby game where you place buildings on predesigned spots and capture flags like it's a match of CS:GO and the biggest your army would ever get is 10 units. Of course the genre dies when you bait people like that.
Dow 2 was shit precisely for not going full Xcom autismo, it stripped most of RTS and limited unit cap to 10 units, while the only new mechanics were cover and gear loot, everything else were dumbed down to the point it was no longer fricking fun, it was dow2 which catered to moba gays first, by making all MP maps 10 times smaller, to the point that macro were no longer required at all, dow 3 disaster is a direct result of dow 2 being successful and dumb devs taking it as an approval for their Moba cancer to further spread on the game mechanics.
Interesting perspective.
All Dawn of War 3 had to be was DoW1's gameplay style with DoW2's graphics. That's all we wanted.
Agreed, if dow 3 was just dow 1 with expansions and dow 2 graphics, relic wouldn't be getting it's staff fired by Sega after coh3 fiasco
Unironically soul, the devs loved the universe and were ready to experiment, even the balance issues with Soulstorm are not that big of a deal considering most modern RTS can't even make more than 3 shitty balanced playable races on launch
Darktide in general is wasted potential: the game. It's a massive shame because once again Fatshart managed to make a game with very solid core gameplay and mechanics, and excellent visualization of 40k's world. Shame about all the mistaken decisions they did with it, from plot to level design or faceless character creation.
Hopefully Darktide 2 will fix everything, I'll continue to play Vermintide 2 until then.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>Hopefully Darktide 2 will fix everything,
it will undoubtedly double down on all the worse aspects of 1.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Darktide not having anything like this is why it'll forever remain inferior to VT2 regardless of how much it adds content or improve gameplay. They'd have to rebuild character creation from 0.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>They'd have to rebuild character creation from 0. >rebuild
more like scrap it and focus on a select group of well made characters.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>darktide 2
I thinks that's impossible, considering FatShart isn't dropping VT2 support anytime soon and they still have 40k whales to milk with DT, considering that helldivers 2 did infinitely better with the same cursed stingray engine and have bigger weapon roster, more mechanics, mechs and more enemy variety, the swedes who fear the snow would rather kill themselves than make darktide 2, even VT3 has better chances to become real.
2 months ago
Anonymous
I'd love VT3, please make it you useless Swedes.
2 months ago
Anonymous
they have less than 10k playing both VT2 and darktide combined. i don't think the microtransactions could even support their paid vacations anymore.
2 months ago
Anonymous
We didn't have new content in darktide since like november of last year, they barely even push bugfixes and balancing, it is unironically over.
2 months ago
Anonymous
they should just let it die. every time they update it, it is so lackluster and it feels like they are prolonging the suffering of a dying animal. besides the gameplay, DT should serve as a lesson on how not to make a tide game for them.
The devs certainly call themselves as RTS. Not exactly an amazing game but I'm still salty with the lack of a sequel. They were planning for something major with it before Ubisoft pulled the plug.
It's worth noting that the overall difficulty of video games has dramatically decreased over time. In the 90's, it was much more common for games to be brutally difficult, regardless of genre, to the point where players regularly couldn't get past the first few levels of a game
By the 2010's, video games were tailored to a much more mass audience, which means that games became much more accessible, with fewer hair-pulling bosses and unforgiving mechanics. These days, truly punishing games are confined to specific genres.
What I'm getting at is that RTS is too hard for the current market of "gamers"
For starters three things.
1. Stop aping AoE and SC.
2. Don't build balance around e-sports and don't try to artificially grow it.
3. Build the game around single player first and then use the single-player experience and transplant it into multi.
the issue is RTS games have run out of ideas and are really uninnovative now. new games are always derivatives or ripoffs of older games.
the lack of new ideas in the genre has become such a big issue. I'm unironically only looking forward to new RTS games with new and interesting setting like pic related.
Do they really need new ideas if the previous formulas work really well? You don't have to reinvent the wheel for the same of reinventing the wheel, you can take a tried and tested concept and put it in a new setting with some QoL changes.
>put it in a new setting
except nobody does that. let me list out the upcoming big RTS games and their "influences"
tempest rising - mainline C&C clone
stormgate and zerospace - SC2 clones
global conflagration - C&C generals clone
industrial annihilation - Total annihilation clone (most probably)
DORF - KKnD and C&C mixed
etc etc. I don't like how creatively bankrupt this genre is these days. they need to put more effort on the story, setting and atmosphere.
Some do but you won't hear about them if you don't do regular dumpster diving in upcoming and new releases on steam. Here is one, it is probably meh, but i didn't get to pirate it yet to try properly.
>put it in a new setting
except nobody does that. let me list out the upcoming big RTS games and their "influences"
tempest rising - mainline C&C clone
stormgate and zerospace - SC2 clones
global conflagration - C&C generals clone
industrial annihilation - Total annihilation clone (most probably)
DORF - KKnD and C&C mixed
etc etc. I don't like how creatively bankrupt this genre is these days. they need to put more effort on the story, setting and atmosphere.
>make copy of other RTS game >people actually buy it
It's your fault, idiots.
?si=E2uGS14Dk4hcRdhw
There's some other game I can't remember the name of where your units had to stay in the light underwater and light sources were a resource else things would get swallowed by the fog of war.
all games in general have difficulty in making a new setting. you can always say that one game is somehow reminiscent of another. also there is very little scope for new ideas in the industry now and instead they should focus on making better games while not being 1:1 copies of old games by better implementation of everything else.
doesnt sound the same without the disco/prog rock soundtrack.
also i feel mixed about the "click unit 4 times now it starts making jokes" shit. it's fun and all and was a requirement for blizz rts but i dont think it fits the tone of what some games would be going for.
the issue is RTS games have run out of ideas and are really uninnovative now. new games are always derivatives or ripoffs of older games.
the lack of new ideas in the genre has become such a big issue. I'm unironically only looking forward to new RTS games with new and interesting setting like pic related.
i think lords of magic: special edition AKA "LOM:SE" already had this setting
as did HoMM
and uhh
stormgate has some demonic hell shit as its setting for some of these
>LOM
lol that's a blast from the past. >HoMM
not an RTS game >stormgate
aesthetically looks and feels like a Pixar movie. that's just awful art and pretty sure the story will be just as bad. besides everything else is a carbon copy of SC2.
rts needs:
1: heroes you get from lootboxes, you need to get the same hero multiple times to upgrade them to their max potential. each one has a skill tree that has really minor upgrades that actually do almost nothing but will get players to argue and theorycraft over it (i.e. +0.5% kinetic defense vs +0.5% energy defense vs +1 health)
2: a main stronghold that has daily quests that you can do in about 10-15 minutes, mostly tapping random shit, sending out drones to gather resources or explore areas for your next missions, radio dialogue with your officers / heroes you've unlocked so far, buildings to upgrade that affect your units in the actual RTS missions, upgrades for the units, possibly some customization for the units or at least the hero's units etc.
3: dating sim elements with heroes/officers/squad
4: an overarching world map where you send out your squads for next missions, and customizable squads for the levels you start. (Kane's Wrath had something kind of like this)
4b: limitations on the squads, you can only pick ~5 heroes/vehicles/supporting equipment. when you deploy in a zone you only start with one, and as you tech up, other ones become available
5: automatic macro / unit production, something sort of like a button that just says "Expand" that will automatically send a worker and build a new main harvesting base and saturate the minerals there. also an adjustable in-game autobuild, like a queue that you can tap and select the units you want, and what percentage of your army you want it to be, with a little slider, and it will automatically build ~50% tanks, 25% supporting vehicles like artillery, 15% support infantry, whatever. toggleable on and off. on by default if you float over 1k minerals at any point in the game, automatically turns on and starts building you shit. player must pick a "Default" unit comp for this at the start of the level.
6:must be playable on console. see: supcom2, universe at war, gaylo wars, etc.
FRICK RTS ESPORTS I WANT WARCRAFT 3 set in space if they make SC3
also that new rts from the ex-blizz guys stormgate I think it's called looks like complete trash, that shit looks like a mobile game with worse gameplay if that's even possible
>also that new rts from the ex-blizz guys stormgate I think it's called looks like complete trash, that shit looks like a mobile game with worse gameplay if that's even possible
yep
it's shit
>boot up starcraft >terran 1 starts blasting
RTS success is all about the soundtrack and unit voicelines
the vibe / feeling is very important. sound design is critical for this.
rts needs:
1: heroes you get from lootboxes, you need to get the same hero multiple times to upgrade them to their max potential. each one has a skill tree that has really minor upgrades that actually do almost nothing but will get players to argue and theorycraft over it (i.e. +0.5% kinetic defense vs +0.5% energy defense vs +1 health)
2: a main stronghold that has daily quests that you can do in about 10-15 minutes, mostly tapping random shit, sending out drones to gather resources or explore areas for your next missions, radio dialogue with your officers / heroes you've unlocked so far, buildings to upgrade that affect your units in the actual RTS missions, upgrades for the units, possibly some customization for the units or at least the hero's units etc.
3: dating sim elements with heroes/officers/squad
4: an overarching world map where you send out your squads for next missions, and customizable squads for the levels you start. (Kane's Wrath had something kind of like this)
4b: limitations on the squads, you can only pick ~5 heroes/vehicles/supporting equipment. when you deploy in a zone you only start with one, and as you tech up, other ones become available
5: automatic macro / unit production, something sort of like a button that just says "Expand" that will automatically send a worker and build a new main harvesting base and saturate the minerals there. also an adjustable in-game autobuild, like a queue that you can tap and select the units you want, and what percentage of your army you want it to be, with a little slider, and it will automatically build ~50% tanks, 25% supporting vehicles like artillery, 15% support infantry, whatever. toggleable on and off. on by default if you float over 1k minerals at any point in the game, automatically turns on and starts building you shit. player must pick a "Default" unit comp for this at the start of the level.
6:must be playable on console. see: supcom2, universe at war, gaylo wars, etc.
I enjoyed age of mythology a lot and I want to play the remake, but what a dev said in an interview about making it more competitive has me kinda worried, since it could take out what made the game special for me.
>making it more competitive has me kinda worried,
they are basically making it more micro intensive. if you don't like it then stick with the original. there are still more than a thousand players playing AoE 2 HD edition rather than the definitive edition.
Impossible
The market is gone
MOBAs are just simplified RTS to where you just manage your hero/"big" unit, that's why LoL is so popular
You'd have to somehow make a game that's more than just managing one unit but isn't complex enough for mass market appeal, but also isn't boring so people won't drop it right away
what RTSs have the best campaign?
for reference, my favorite rts that ive played is Sup Com. i like bulding experimentals, i don't like controlling tons of little units.
>i don't like controlling tons of little units.
AoE2 has lots of campaign variety, but if you don't like that then you probably won't like AoE2. Dawn of War 2 focuses entirely on just managing a few hero units, WC3 offers a variety of missions both with base building and some no-build missions. Starcraft 2 campaigns are pretty good, if you want to you can more or less solo the whole Zerg campaign with Kerrigan if you play and upgrade her right.
dawn of war 1: game of the year edition has the best campaign and you dont control that many units since everyone is in squads. at MOST youll control about 10squads+7 vehicles.
God damn, how do I accept the fact that because of a piece of shit called dow 3 I'll never see a proper dow with gameplay from the first part and graphics from the second part?
All of those above are good recommendations but the company of heroes games are also their own great twist on the genre and restricted number of units.
unironical answer: >cap apm at 60 (1 input max per second)
+ >balance around most people, not around the highest end
great players would still dominate because that one action per second would be the most optimized and meaningful every single time
while at the lower levels, for 99% of people, you wouldn't have kids hopped up on crack clicking everywhere and dominating their mmr range over more strategic but less dexterous players
the reason most people drop out of these games is because nobody wants to lose despite the right strategy simply because your opponent clicks 3 times faster
>SC1 : I will be the one to kill you Kerrigan > SC2 : oh I still love you Kerrigan
wtf were they thinking. this franchise would have died without the Koreans riding its dick so hard.
>won on heroic difficulty with no loss in men of war 2 >achievement not popping >graphucal mod to make the game look less like shit lock you out of achievement
He probably offs himself now that he has no purpose in life, Mengsk is gone and so is Kerrigan. He killed his buddies for some alien pussy that ditched him.
Any extremely underrated rts you'd recommend to anons looking for something different?
Something that doesn't fall into the SC/C&C/TA bucket?
Stuff like Original War, or hybrid RTS like Battlezone?
There was one where you control flying city that is also a battleship of sorts which you can change layout of and do the usual logistic things so your shields, guns, engine etc were all powered up. Can't remember the name of it for the life of me though.
as dominant peripheral
You have no idea, dude.
We are more out of touch than we realize.
I was at a PAX East booth demo'ing a game and kids came up and didn't know how to use the controller, was asking how to link their phone to the game or where the touchscreen was, where they tap, etc.
It's even more over than you previously thought.
by taking a very popular IP and continuing the story of it in an RTS game.
you trick people into playing an RTS to find the few that would enjoy it. also you make it way easier than starcraft, also a mainly co-op/team game and the matches can't last 40 minutes like AoE or AoM
>the lights
pure ludokino...
how can people think warcraft 3 was the best rts when shit like this came out years before and had fully rotateable 3d camera and customizable units and underground tunneling and shit like this
Because i want new games you fricking moron, new games that try new things and do not kneecap themselves on design level by chasing esportsgays such as yourself.
>new games that try new things
why are morons obsessed with reinventing the wheel
they tried new things btw and they all flopped LMAO you were probably playing halo so it flew over your head
So by your own logic RTS should stay dead and we should all be content to replay warcraft 3 for the rest of our life because the genre mechanically peaked in the 2000s and it can never be improved or spun into a new direction ? It must be a pretty sad state of mind: To think the the genre you claim to love reached perfection 20 years ago within the wall of an office building in Las Vegas that was about to be sent to the glue factory by electronic arts.
2 months ago
Anonymous
RTS would first have to die to stay dead and considering I can launch any of 10 different RTS games on my PC and get a game within 1 minute it's safe it's not dead
2 months ago
Anonymous
The most active RTS is clash Royale and its has more active players than all other RTS combined lmao
No longer pretending that it is dead would be a good start I suppose. I know that starcraft 2 broke everybody's brain and now everybody pits anything remotely close to an RTS against it to perform the RTS fan equivalent of self-flagellation but I seriously don't understand why. RTS peak popularity was a freak accident, an anomaly in market trends and consumer purchase patterns that will never come back. No amount of blaming blizzard for muh asiaticclick or shitty storylines (as valid as these are) can change the simple fact that RTS where on their way out no matter what.
However I think it is complete nonsense to declare the genre dead for it. Microsoft keeps re releasing ensemble's old glories because AoE still has an audience. BBI made desert of kharak and are making homeworld 3 as we speak because the genre isn't dead. What happened alongside the release of starcraft 2 is that RTS lost a playerbase it was gonna lose either way as people shifted their interest to other genres that catered more efficiently to one aspect of the RTS systems they favored more than the others. As it stands now RTS is a niche genre that only a minority of people have an interest in. (It's not at all weird that AoE4 bombed and the remasters sold well, 90% of these purchase are based on nostalgia and nothing else.) If you compound that with the God awful attitude of remaining RTS fans who refuse to stop lamenting the death of their relative as everybody else can hear cry for help from inside the casket and jerking off to SupCom or AoE2 as if no game came after or before. That and RTS being fairly complex games to design made it so that almost no studio even wants to try because the ones insane enough to do it would be doing it for an audience of 50 jadded buttholes who would just dismiss them and go back to their fiftiest Forged Alliance skirmish game of the day while posting that nobody is even trying to please them.
I flat out disagree with all of you
If a quality game is made today it will be noticed and discovered, regardless of the genre
I myself want civ but real time instead of the faux turn based game we have right now
RTS is dead, it's too stressful for mass online play, be honest PVP is not relaxing. Those who like the stress are playing mobas. Campaigns take more money then pvp and PVP is where game longevity typically. It's not like a 4x where every game is it's unique story.
RTS would first have to die to stay dead and considering I can launch any of 10 different RTS games on my PC and get a game within 1 minute it's safe it's not dead
I have played PvP both in real life and video games so I don't find it stressful at all. I used to play team games with my bros vs AI but they said RTS is too stressful, I don't really understand it but oh well.
Not possible. It's in the graveyard with arena fps. Sad but true.
/thread
SC2 killed itself and everything around it. Even if they release SC3 and try to artificially revive the esport scene like they did with overwatch it will still die within a month. NOBODY cares anymore. People think they do but look at fricking stormslop. 10 minutes of playing and you know you won't be wasting your 30s with getting good at. It can be the best rts in the world and people won't play it. As for custom games. Just for forget about those. Nobody will make a custom game if he can make the same game in a better engine and ask money for it.
doomgays like you are the worst when the RTS scene has a ton of choice and dedicated player bases.
absolute bullshit. Starcraft died in korea due to wintrading because even pros knew this isn't going anywhere. You are just too much of a homosexual to admitt that it's over. Grow up you fat Black person
sc2 was shit anyway
oh, you only enjoy RTS for pvp, never mind gay please continue to think rts is dead
look at this tard lol
There is no other reason to enjoy RTS, it's the best PvP experience along with fighting games.
Campaigns are just glorified puzzle games.
you're just moronic and coping about your toddler game dying. sc2 was so absolutely awful that it killed any future it could've had.
this. I don't care about sc3 but it will kill everything again and then die a boring death all over again. Blizzard is dead to me.
anon, RTS itself is fine. it's even getting a bunch of new games now too, some would say that a revival is on the horizon. it isn't the craze that it was back in the day, but it doesn't need to be
You don't, it's too hard for most people because they're terrible at multi tasking.
Bring back the funny live action skits from westwood
Bring back JulyZerg, the most relatable StarCraft champion.
They just cant go to make any games that dont dishonor my girlfriend! And then you see they dont make any! and I wont put up with any more of these nerds touching Guns, invented by America's Marines!! as if it was a Nerf toy! No thank you Sonny Junior! Maybe you can learn to treat your Toys with some Respect!!
There's no possible way. 99% of the player base played minigames inside them because accessible standalone dev tools didn't exist and the editors for these games were rather powerful. So now you're target audience is 100 times smaller and the money just isn't there. SC2 briefly managed to recapture some of the magic with its co-op hero mode.
The RTS genre is fine, what you want is RTS game to sell like hotcakes, that's not gonna happen, kids aren't into RTS games like before.
Sc2 co-op,campaign and custom games are all pretty good, I'm sure competent devs could just make all these things in another game, wc3r could have been it but blizzard stopped development halfway through
The lead developer of SC2's coop is working on the coop mode in stormgate.
It only had 1 map and 2 heroes to pick from in the public demo they had a couple weeks ago during nextfest, but it was enjoyable enough.
>coop mode
Don't care. I dont play games with friends.
Bring back proper writing, and not just mindless competitive balancing.
Make it more slow and more cover based like company of heroes, and make the start higher resource.
>make it shit
>ADHD morons are always threatened by the concept of playing an actual strategy game
>what he meant by an actual strategy game
>just watch units go back and forward for 5 minutes then your base instantly blows up the second a unit touches it
some1 pls send help spare me the misery
>I don't know how to play company of heroes
A classic turtle problem.
>just make it slop for morons, bro
check out Syria: civil war or somthing like that
Cats Who Play are the devs, they were working on a Terminator RTS but got baleeted for being Russian. Also 9th Company: Roots of Terror but its a little too janky. But they're nice slower paced tactical RTS from a unique perspective
Disgusting
STARFORGE
a classic game
u just need a company like prime blizzard to make another RTS again, the only reason this genre was even popular to begin with was because the greatest western dev of all time happened to focus their efforts into the two best RTS of all time (WC3 and BW)
we basically had an american nintendo and they made the RTS genre famous, imagine if nintendo died, people can make good platformers or zelda likes, but they cant make a mario or zelda
>greatest western dev of all time
I wasn't even going to reply to this bait but it's so fricking stupid and so praised by some normalgays I just need to set the record straight.
Blizzard invented nothing. Blizzard innovated nothing. All Blizzard did was release polished / high quality games. Warcraft 2 was just a C&C ripoff, Starcraft just an evolution of that. Diablo / Diablo 2 were made by Condor / Blizzard North, not "Blizzard" - in fact, Blizzard North hated Blizzard South (B.S. for short) and their real diablo 3 sequel got canned for copied wow shit.
Warcraft 3 was just a ripoff of Battle Realms. In fact, WC3 was delayed a year because Battle Realms came out. It also copied a bunch of shit from Warlords Battlecry, but whatever.
WoW was just a copy of Everquest, again, casualized and made with mainstream appeal. You're acting like Halo is the best shooter of all time because it was designed to be the most popular. Sales does not equal quality, it equals popularity, and popularity leads to a self-propelled snowball that cannot fall apart, no matter how much dogshit can be shat out.
Friendly reminder that blizz dropped the ball with DotA, and rested on their laurels with WoW the same way 3d realms rested on their laurels with duke, making nothing else until...diablo 3, i guess, and HotS, and Overwatch. The power of activision, i guess.
I'm not denying that SC and WC3 aren't excellent games, they are, and their campaigns are top notch, but to say they're the best developer is just a frickin' insult. They aren't even the best RTS developer of their time, that'd go to Relic (Homeworld, Company of Heroes, Dawn of War) - and Dawn of War 2 was much more innovative than Starcraft 2, but that's an essay for another post. So was Supreme Commander
You just can't forget about western development studios that actually pushed the medium forward like Looking Glass, Westwood, Rockstar (GTA3 at least), Rare, Valve, Bethesda (up until Morrowind), etc
Leyley?
wall of cope notwithstanding, for 5-7 years, blizzard released nothing but genre defining gems. They'll never ever get a cent out of me ever again, but it is what it is
seething, massive seething
from 1996-2005 blizzard was on fire
there were still good moments after that. sc2/ow come to mind.
>from 1996-2005 blizzard was on fire
Yeah it was on fire alright. Fire because Activision put that bag of flaming dogshit out the front pretending it was some kind of a Halloween goodie bag.
go play your command on shitter and age of feces, theres not one american studio that reached the highs of blizzard in their peak years, and they did that on the back of the RTS and ARPG genre
they were the kings, and the only reason the genre was as massive as it was, theres a reason starcraft is still played on TV in korea and no on gives a frick about AOE of CaC
Childish, and Westwood was the contender with Blizzard.
Both series are still played everywhere.
contender is a nice way to put it, as in blizzard won countless gold medals and they won a few bronze and silvers? yea you could call them contenders, not winners though
come back when you have done enough blizzard dick riding
come back when you stop coping and pretending that their games had even 1/10th the success or influence of a single blizzard rts
A silly point to complain about, majority strategy games are typically either Warcraft/Starcraft clones, or Dune/C&C clones, or outliers, like TA.
Having genre influence is par course with them being early era games.
Yeah and being an early game in a genre means you significantly contributed to its innovation.
Pretty much, hence why out of all RTS it's these big two that set the tone.
I remember reading a nice article in early 2000 game journal about the two, man, I miss those times. It was exciting.
Installing Tiberium Dawn for the first time was spooky though, that talking mouth scared me aplenty.
>1/10th the success
if you treat money as the only metric of success then sure
>influence
what great games did SC2 influence? It was a bad influence for the RTS genre in general
>influence
There was no influence at all unless you count people making custom maps and inventing dota/lol
RTS died at wc3 dude.
I played stormgate during nextfest. i sent peons to mine gold in 1994, i sent peons to mine gold in 2024. no innovation AT ALL.
Why are you striking out cuneiform here on this clay tablet repository? More gold is required!
>generic blue&steel colored mechshit
I sleep
asiaticclick slop is the future of RTS.
all mobas are based off war3's hero system, so just that trumps all influence from other rts within the top down strategy genre
>war3's hero system
You really need to educate yourself.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1025600/Battle_Realms_Zen_Edition/
Warcraft 3 is a copy of this game. Yes, even the hero system.
>remaster
>early access
wat
man I remember playing that shit back then
>influence
wc3's rts "innovations" if you can call them that were all dogshit failures, especially upkeep and heroes.
what players/fans made with the editor was much more important than anything blizzard made themselves. same with starcraft. RPGs, MOBAs, TDs, Autochess, etc...
funny shit, clash royale is literally just a warcraft 3 castle fight map...but with a card system...
Competitor is more adequate, and ultimately both won, as both series are art to the keen, both withstood time tests, both made history in the gaming world, and both are extremely enjoyable.
However ultimately Blizzard got a shorter end of a stick because they survived long enough to start rotting.
It's rather miraculous that SC2 went as well as it did, one can say.
sorry guys i dont see any cute korean girls in the crowds for your games in 2024, sucks to suck! gg tho!
>fails to make an argument
>says gg anyway
every single time.
Cute girls are cute, but ultimately irrelevant both to game contents, and in the long run, as most games there are ultimately may very well become forgotten in the future. Some permanently.
Crowds alone don't make games great, nor do all great games get them, nor are other people necessarily capable of understanding true value of things.
the point is starcraft is still very popular, i dont see many events for AOE or C&C that get the type of viewership of the ASL or many other stacraft tournaments, or content creators
Unquestionably, but there are reasons for that, one of which is that those games died somewhat, while Blizzard proliferated itself into capable company, numerous correct decisions helped little by little to ensure series survival, plus Korean zeal, plus SC game balance lending itself well to crystallize multiplayer cliques.
It's not unthinkable that were the Korean War were to turn out differently, it simply wouldn't get to the same level of popularity, assuming SC were to be made at all.
But to be fair to this hypothetical, some other games wouldn't come into being too.
Ultimately, neither AOE nor C&C are bad games, whether in a vacuum or on their own. C&C had its own events too, back in the past, I think...
>i dont see many events for AOE
Just because you know nothing doesn't make it true.
This was $500k and held in a castle in europe. Even your precious Artosis was there.
yea this is after microsoft stepped in and started supporting it bigly with cash, broodwar hasnt had support from blizzard practically ever and still mogs AOE by a massive margin
All that has big money in it has some support, whether from companies or from persons.
I no longer see a point to this discussion.
If I was about half my age, I would want to jump through the screen and strangle you, but I'm just disappointed at how blind you are.
I guess log back into WoW, since Blizzard is perfect and all. Enjoy. How's HoTS doing btw?
I feel like you're missing the point. You don't need one or two big games (Which mostly have success because of re-releases, sales, battle-chests, spawns/demos/etc) vs having multiple successful series.
You could make the argument that they were killed when EA bought them, but I could make the argument that Blizzard was killed when Activision bought them.
>they were the kings
we are talking about the RTS genre here moron
You said greatest western dev.
Not Greatest Western RTS dev.
Fine, move the goal posts.
Here, find me a blizzard RTS with higher ratings than this. Since they make the best ones and everything.
You are so fricking stupid it's unbelievable.
It was a time and place thing.
The industry has changed so much, there is no chance of RTS ever coming back like that. If the next Beatles or Nirvana were playing today, it would get drowned in the sea of mumble rap and top40 pop garbage. People might read an article about a new rts and be like "huh, that's neat, glad that's being made" then go back to playing some Hoyoverse game on their phone.
Is this the canceled generals 2?
It appears to be it, yes.
>greatest western dev
>american nintendo
List of (western) developers that had a higher peak / prime that was higher/better than Blizzard at their highest prime:
Respawn
Larian
Remedy
Arkane
Obsidian Entertainment
Bioware
Looking Glass Studios
IOI Interactive
SuperGiant Games
Midway
Acclaim
Lionhead Studios
Neversoft
Radical Entertainment
Silicon Knights
Sierra
Amplitude Studios
Subset Games
Firaxis
Owlcat Games
Paradox Interactive
Naughty Dog
Sucker Punch
Valve
Rare
Retro Studios
Bethesda
Insomniac
Rockstar
Santa Monica Studios
Bungie (do not forget about Myth/Myth2 and Marathon)
Ubisoft (do not forget: old school rainbow six, splinter cell, rayman, etc.)
CD Projekt Red
Id Software
Westwood
12 Bay Studios
Megacrit Games
Brace Yourself Games
DICE
Eidos Montreal
Electronic Arts
Nightdive Studios
LucasArts
S.S.I.
Microprose / Simtex Software
Gearbox Software
Motion Twin
Interplay / Black Isle
Ludeon
Devolver Digital / Croteam
Apogee Software / 3D Realms
Frontier Developments
Hello Games (NMS redemption arc)
Hitting character limit. I won't continue, you get the point.
>Owlcat
Stop it.
Owlcat is a bit of a stretch but he has a point with midway/acclaim/williams
>we basically had an american nintendo and they made the RTS genre famous
That was Westwood bro.
is there a more iconic RTS track than this?
yes yes i know terran 1.
>there will be a resurgence of Kaneposting now that C&C got the Steam treatment
Global Dick Inhalers on suicidewatch.
What warcrimes did kane really commit? I can't remember.
The first mission in c&c Nod is genociding a village and blaming gdi with fake news.
>genociding a village
What kind of books, er I mean what kind of village?
Tiberium Gas probably counts as one.
You (supposedly) have to be 18 to post on this site. You clearly are not.
Leave.
make a great map editor, make a good team and coop mode, make fun ai to play against, make it look and sound half decent
We already did, Blizzdrone.
>Billion dollar franchise
>Hidden Cup V just finished
>Our THIRD tournament in a real medieval castle is being teased for later this year
>More singleplayer content than the average person is capable of finishing
>Custom scenarios, custom games in multiplayer galore
>AOE3 and AOE4 in pretty fun states finally as well
Microsoft bought you, maybe we can have an in-game Star/Warcraft event for AOE2.
I wonder how many of those are new players, as in players who started playing after RTS "died" (2010 onwards?) and how many are originals from when the game came out
The best player in the world right now is Hera. He was born the same year AOE2 came out meaning he's 24 right now. A 20 and 22 year old also qualified for Hidden Cup V
Why is Montezuma drinking a chalice of cum?
Homeworld 3 might be good.
It was delayed because the developer decided to release an awful demo that caused a shitstorm, so they delayed the game for a few months. The final version will be a polished turd.
>release pushed back due to fan feedback
This is never a good sign. Fans don't know shit.
It's horrid dude. Did you play the demo?
this guy has the right idea, i think, but it's far too late.
RTS had its era in the late 90s
make way for the imsim renaissance
Just focus on the story and fun things and not multiplayer balance and esport capabilities.
many starcraft players never care the story in the first place. this is the same for FPS like Call of duty too, yet they still have big playerbase
but you are right about less focus on esport shit, it would help if more RTS games can appeal to broader casual audience like starcraft and Company of heroes did
How to Revive RTS? Combine it with a shooter.
Remake Starcarft 1. Let one player use MS/K for traditional controls. Let 4-5 players control units from an over the shoulder perspective using a controller. You wouldn't use the right analog as the vertical axis would be locked to keep the game mechanics. Players could take over any unit at any time and, as an scv they'd be just a little bit faster at mining, or as a marine they could get more damage from well placed shots.
Make it primarily single player focused. Kill all esports gays. Make the SP have soulful unique units and make sure the factions are very different from eachother.
I beat the ranked 1 player in command and conquer 3 back in the day.
Now, I can't beat kids that are just getting into the genre because of how esports turned everything into micromanagement.
make the AI good and make the campaign a progressive tutorial for competitive play. Instill good game instincts one at a time through missions. Right now it's the opposite.
>and make the campaign a progressive tutorial for competitive play
Frick off with your competitive asiaticclick. The singleplayer should be a fully fleshed out experience and the multiplayet should be about having fun, not stressing yourself out about APM and playing the meta.
>The singleplayer should be a fully fleshed out experience
Completely agree. But instead of
>turtle for 30 minutes
>one base the whole map
the missions should encourage you to take expansions, deny bases, consider your army composition, etc.
>multiplayet should be about having fun, not stressing yourself out about APM and playing the meta.
you're asking for the impossible. Any real time game where you allow players to 1v1 each other is going to favor speed of execution. There will always be a meta. For a fun, non-competitive environment we used to have UMS. But, I can tell you, as an 8 year old I used to get flamed on sunken defense maps because I "didn't do it right". There's a meta for the fun stress free parts as well, and plenty of c**ts who enforce it
>the missions should encourage you to take expansions, deny bases, consider your army composition, etc.
Wow, it's almost as if Dawn of War did this in 2004.
It still looks great though?
Dawn of war is a good game. More games should do that. What's your point
>asiaticclick
>apm
who said it needs apm?
you can have good rts with low apm
this was already done, see silica, natural selection 2, carrier command, etc...
the fps/rts genre of battlezone '98, battlezone 2, etc, is excellent, but, again, that doesn't work, because it's no longer an RTS. it's an RTS for 1 player and a shooter for the other 20+ players (see: Savage2)
We need amazing concepts that gets realized
>The last game we made failed to deliever, took too long to develop and most people were let down
>Anyway, look at our new project!
What were they thinking?
they are planning to pull that trick a second time
You do it by running a scam patreon to relaunch a worse version of SC2, oh and you hire people who were tangentially involved with SC2 to lend credibility to the project.
by not mentioning this homosexual abomination of a sequel
use starcraft or broodwar
Mass Recall is fun.
I legit thought you were talking about the warcraft 3 archmage spell until i saw which post you were replying to
you know arbiters existed and did this in sc/bw before the gay mothership that cant even beat 1 marine with a medivac, right?
have i got the perfect fricking game for him
Play C&C Generals. Embrace the SCUD.
this JUST got put on steam
i want to support the decision but dont want to give EA anymore money
i already bought the game in 2004 also.
any advice?
i DID buy c&c remastered on the EA app for $1.99, lol. please forgive me.
stormgate is dogshit i played the """beta""" (pre-pre-pre-alpha) for 12 hours
homeworld 3 is also dogshit. the demo wargames game MODE was sort of interesting but the design decisions are beyond fricked and the actual ship movement and micro and combat is total dogshit.
tempest rising got delayed (Again)
crossfire legion is still dead
DORF looks good but is vaporware
BAR is fantastic, as is Zero-K but they've been around for a long time.
9 bit armies is fricking good in coop i strongly recommend it.
i do play on C&C net sometimes.
i played a lot of sc2 but kind of stropped pushing after i hit diamond 2. i just dont enjoy LotV the balance and pacing is dogshit. i miss WoL a lot.
>SC3
>'they'
The company that made SC2 doesn't exist.
The people who made SC2 have all left that company. About 40% of them are "working" on Stormgate - the rest are working for other companies.
Ja. Some dev showcased it before it went under.
Wasn't it made by Bioware out of all people?
No, this is when Bioware was the big name for them so they renamed the guys that did the C&C games to Bioware West or something. It was the same team that did C&C3, RA3, and C&C4.
>C&C4.
WRONG. TEAM WAS DISSOLVED BEFORE CNC4
>thinking C&C3, RA3 and C&C4 were made by the same people
just keep it pve and single player. people is not ready to fight each other on that kind of stuff.
AI controls huge number of fodder troops and fights other AI over general position and line.
Humans use special forces and attack key points/ disrupt econ/ tip battle
You can choose what strat your AI fodder general will use and give vague orders like advance over in this direction.
This is exactly how I played DoW with UA. I would provide the artillery and fortification support to set out the battlelines and the AI carries the main brunt of the fight. Then using a mix of dropships and chimeras engage in hit and run attacks on isolated listening posts and weak points in the line. Worked well enough against large blob armies like the Nids but daemons had a funny habit of taking entire salvos of arty fire to the face without flinching. Greater daemons suck ass to fight without some specialized forces or a metric shit ton of tanks to throw at them.
There are several Zero-K maps that work like this.
is Zero-K just BAR as well? why are they both free and both TA clones? how did that happen?
No.
There are many TA forks / "clones" / TA-style games.
Zero-K has a completely different unit progression system; BAR is from Balanced Annihilation Remastered - ("Beyond All Reason" being the ... 'legally distinct' version...)
Zero-K has a completely different approach - rather than 2 factions, you get 1 factory for free at the start of the map and that's kind of your "faction" ...
>Cloakbot Factory.
>Shieldbot Factory.
>Rover Assembly.
>Hovercraft Platform.
>Gunship Plant.
>Airplane Plant.
>Spider Factory.
>Jumpbot Factory.
About midway through the match it might make sense to transition into another group of units. But you can play entire games off the one factory and they're balanced around being starting picks (aside from the airplane ones, I wouldn't start with those unless it's 4v4 and you start in the back)
but yes, it's a very mechanically similar when playing but the units are all divergent from TA.
that's sick dude i'm gonna try it
It has a really cool campaign where you slowly unlock units and upgrade your commander unit
It's unpolished but for the low low price of ABSOLUTELY FRICKING FREE it's a really fun/cool experience. Some of the maps are very hard on the hardest difficulty, don't feel like you have to play on it, especially at first.
The coop vs ai is great too and there are maps designed to be like a wave defense / horde defense mode as well. The community is great. You can get it from steam or you can play it without steam, up to you. It wasnt on steam for many years but more recently it's there for visibility and "convenience" - please enjoy it at your own pace and don't get too overwhelmed. The campaign starts you out with just the one factory and slowly introduces the units, which is probably easier than jumping into multiplayer and being like "omg there's so much shit wtf do i build"
I agree. It wouldn't be a bad idea to relieve the player of micromanagement, giving him more to focus on tactics and managing elite units or supporting main forces.
Supreme Commander did it in 2007. It was pure ludo.
>remove the entire point of strategy games and make it autoplay
see how Victoria 3 turned out with microless combat (shit)
honestly, when you stop worrying about twitch numbers and how much clout you'll have for playing whatever game is popular, the RTS genre is in an EXCELLENT place right now.
Big games being played right now, still: Starcraft 2, AoE 2, AoE 4, CoH 2/3
C&C Collection just hit Steam. C&C net is still populated and playable. BAR is the best TA clone on the market and always has a few dozen games going. Age of mythology getting a remaster coming this year. AoE 2 still getting DLCs. 9 Bit armies just dropped with a coop campaign and mod support out of the gate. Company of heroes 3 just dropped and is pretty popular. Dune Spice wars and northgard are going strong. Homeworlds have been remastered. There's more RTS's coming this year - like the one being made by blizzard devs... stormgate maybe? More C&C clones are being talked about, red alert 2 remasters being rumored.
It's a great frickign time to be an RTS fan.
this.
play niche games, stop trying to fix what isn't broken, enjoy RTS games and stop being homosexuals worried about player counts.
this is even excluding rts adjacent shit like hearts of iron or farthest frontier or crusader kings or anno.
Also, SINS 2 is just hit early access, dune spice wars just added the 'ordos' equiv, homeworld 3 coming soon.
>homeworld 3 coming soon.
trash game.
>make it easier
Tooth and Tail did this and you didn't buy it. Great game for what it is but very simplified compared to a 'real' RTS.
Halo wars also did it, and i guess it was popular enough since they made a 2nd, but i don't think it maintains any level of a player base.
>Tooth and Tail
i don't even know what that is
>furry
>pixel
>looks worse than age of empires
Halo Wars says suck my dick and get a real argument
worse than age of empires
It has 4 player splitscreen. The "hearthstone" of RTS.
Mechabellum, the future of RTS - autobattler garbage.
>RTS is in an EXCELLENT place right now, just look at all these games from a decade ago
you can't /thread and then keep posting, silly
half that post was about new shit and 2 of the games included in the still popular realm came out in the last year or so. if you didn't want to read the post don't bother replying dumbass
Don't forget about Supreme Commander my boy, oh yes.
you can't because autismos will ruin it by making playing unoptimally an instant loss.
Just remake Tiberian Sun with new graphics
>remake this
What's wrong with this perfection?
while i don't think they can improve the game graphically at all, i do wish it was remastered to add some more modern settings to play with, especially in keybinds / queueing / tabs and such. it is funny that it had the early versions of several things like that though.
Not that guy but if they made an RTS that had the same gritty apocalyptic feeling where the environment was just as dangerous as the other army I would really like it.
Esports ruined the genre.
Aoe already revived it and age of mythology is going to come out that makes it ao2 de, aoe4 and soon to be aom in the top 100 most played steam games. Starcraft and blizzard trannies can ACK to a superior RTS.
this is unironically true. aoe is proving to be the pinnacle of RTS design, not whatever korean homosexual wants to think about starcraft or french homosexual thinks about wc3
also BAR is probably the best RTS being developed right now and it's fricking FREE
aoe didn't even try to be competitive but just by it's very design it's better. More fun units, more fun mechanics I feel sorry for starhomosexuals.
Good, decently sized, campaigns are basically the only way. No one actually cares about competitive RTS. The SC tournament scene was basically a fluke between streaming kicking off mixed with people getting some kind of nostalgia high from the custom maps days.
WC3/SC were basically the Roblox of their era.
I looked forward to that piece of shit game's campaign for years, and I will never not be butt hurt about the retcons.
Break RTS up into stages/turns
>Build base turn, spend some time designing your base and building soldiers you want
>Next turn is ordering them around. No micro managing, just sending forces to places and taking locations
>Turn goes back to base building
>reverts to war
basically a combination of Turn based and RTS combat with simplified macro
RTS at its purest is just too tryhard. Who has 10,000 hours to get good at something?
isn't this sorta loosely total war?
He wants everything turn-based. Basically he wants it like Dominion's gameplay.
idk I never played total war so maybe
That's age of wonders 4 du
murder everyone at nu blizzard
I always wished there were ranked modes in SC2 for different speeds. I don't want to be an APM maniac playing on "faster" speed. I'm ok with playing on normal speed or slower and having the game take longer. Especially true as I get older. RTS with reasonable speed so you can micro battles would be cool.
inb4 skill issue - I was master league on both NA and Korean ladders back in the day.
make games that actually require strategy and not memorizing key presses.
best RTS game to play as racists?
>Sins of a Solar Empire
Kill Vasari. Behead Vasari. Roundhouse kick a Vasari into the concrete. Slam dunk Vasari slave babies into a waste disposal unit. Airlock filthy Vasari. Defecate in Vasari food. Launch Vasari into the sun. Stir fry Vasari in a wok. Toss Vasari into stabilized blackholes. Urinate into Vasari antimatter tanks. Judo throw Vasari into a fusion reactor. Twist Vasari heads off. Report Vasari to the TEC. Karate chop Vasari in half. Curb stomp pregnant Vasari slaves. Trap Vasari in a plasma storm. Crush Vasari in the matter compressor. Liquefy Vasari in a vat of acid. Eat Vasari. Dissect Vasari. Exterminate Vasari in the gas chambers. Stomp Vasari skulls with steel toed moonboots. Cremate Vasari in the blast furnaces. Lobotomize Vasari. Mandatory abortions for Vasari slaves. Grind Vasari slave fetuses in the waste disposal. Drown Vasari in industrial grease. Vaporize Vasari homeworlds with a Novalith Cannon. Kick old Vasari down a flight of stairs. Feed Vasari to space pirates. Slice Vasari with an industrial plasma cutter.
is the 2nd one any good?
Dunno haven't played it but they are about 3/4 of the way done via EA on Timmy's store. The cool parts about it now is that you can directly influence construction on the planets themselves and ships have the ability to adjust their loadouts. At least from what I was reading that seemed like the case. Not a big fan of dropping strikecraft support on pic relate unless you have a guaranteed way to offset that like adding additional point defense with garda flak turrets to keep the buzzards off.
YOUR LACK OF COMMITMENT SHALL -NOT- GO UNPUNISHED!
Can't say Vasari without saying Asari, haha!
>crusaders were the only racist
Who the frick wasn't racist back then? Pretty much everyone was racist.
The concept didn't exist back then as it does now (and neither did the word "race", depending on which political or ethnic entity were you to consider, whether linguistically or conceptually), because racial strife exploits ethnicity line blurring to merge masses of vastly different ethnicities into one an easily exploitable pile, it's a lever for fools.
One of the consequences of ill-thought globalism is disruption of normal ethnical dislike geography, which ironically provided defense against actual racism by preventing dissolution in unification.
Jester farmer?
Beyond all Reason had a 30vs 30 player event the other day.
beyond all reason is fantastic. and if you don't like it, you're probably a troony.
i dont like playing as robots. i want to play as humans with rifles and rocket launchers with artillery.
Not at all. It's too weighed down by previous experiences. The early RTSs were so great because they just came up with the most basic concepts by themselves, they didn't have such a precise manual to follow on how to make an RTS. That's what made Warcraft and Age of Empires so good
Not to mention that everything has to appeal to le esport audience. That is just the wrong way to approach it
Qrd on dow3? What went wrong? Was voice acting nice at least?
>What went wrong?
Everything.
What the frick is that reply.
wanting to be a crusader makes you racist in bidens america
Crusader: No Remorse.
Crusader: No Regret.
These are good fricking games but they aren't RTS.
Based Eurasian Dynasty Chad
Try this, it's more your speed.
Not that anon, but I prefer M.A.X.2.
Also reminder that the Robotic Walker is pure rape if you are playing against the Concord + Humans as the Sheevat.
Seriously, that humanoid tank murders Sheevat in an instant the moment the latter's shields are down.
Well, he does have "rabid" in his name, ha!
It’s too hard. It’s like saying “how do we make every student in this college take organic chemistry?”
Not gonna happen, only a few dedicated people are willing to take on that challenge (and about half of them fail). most people are doing other things, which is fine.
So yeah, I don’t think there is a way to “revive” RTS unless you change it so much that it becomes easy for the masses. But then it may no longer be an RTS.
>Good campaign
>Interesting factions
>Smart AI
>AI with personality
>Map Creator
>Co-op
>Scenarios
>Smart AI
>AI with personality
You know you're not getting it. Players are actually to dumb to beat harder AIs.
Populous: The Beginning might be old, it might be incredibly aged and flawed even for its time, but it was so much fun to play through its campaign and I wish we had more games that blended RTS with God Games in a satisfactory manner.
UNAGA
You know damn well whats gonna happen
>release RTS
>people love it
>esport/streamer crowd gets there hands on it
>"the game is good, BUT I would change..."
>company subjects game to endless changes and 'balances' ultimately pleasing no one
>frick this game
>completely forgotten shortly after
>creative assembly balancing single player around multiplayer meta buttholes crying about shit
>this isn't limited to RTS vidya either
homosexuals the whole lot of em.
Was the hypothetical game that does not exist named CNC4 objectively as bad as people said it was?
Honestly, it's pretty average. The thing is it's just too different from the previous games. People were ragging on C&C 3 because it's not exactly the same as the old games and 4 went even crazier. The always-online thing didn't help either. It came out right at the time when EA was its most cancerous and 4 was right at the thick of it.
How mindbroken do you have to be to give that game a "pretty average"
It's frickin horrible
It's nothing like command and conquer
C&C Rivals on my fricking phone played more like C&C than C&C4
Let's it go anon. The genre can stay afloat as a niche hobby but it won't be ever the same. RTS is the Kodak film of gaming.
David Kim, former lead designer on SC2 is working on an unannounced RTS that all the biggest RTS streamers went for an NDA'ed demo this past week. Stormgate is also coming probably next year and seems alright.
i thought he was involved in stormgate or zero space or something.
sad that i played both of those and they're dogshit compared to immortal:gates of pyre
i really hope that game saves rts..
He's lead on a third unannounced RTS at 'Uncapped Games'. Artosis, Tasteless, Rotterdam, and a bunch of other RTS streamers spent this past week with him, probably giving feedback on it. There's potentially an RTS renaissance coming
There's also the new Star Wars RTS from Respawn's subsidiary which consisted of former Firaxis and Westwood people. And by the looks of it, they're planning big with it.
What's insane is they canceled the FPS but not the RTS.
What the frick were they thinking.
DoW2's wasnt bad either.
> "Come. Show me what passes for fury among your misbegotten kind!"
>> "Come. Show me what passes for fury among your misbegotten kind!"
The #1 line I remember from that game is
>SUCH IS THE FATE OF THE ENEMIES OF MAN
GO GO GO!
STOOOOORM THEM
STOOOOOOORM THEM GO GO GO STOOOORM THEEEEM GO GO GO STOOOOORM THEM STOOOOORM
Forward you dogs, to victory!
Let me inspire our men!
Witnes your DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
NONBELIEVERS MUST DIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE
They will burn shooortly
If it is anything less than Empire at War they might as well not bother.
Just play an RTS, anon
'
WE NEED MORE GOLD
somebody continue to play in Warcraft 3
zoomers and the spawn of millenials dont have enough attention span for RTS
RTS will come back when we have decent voice commands
>voice commands
Anyone else struggle using voice commands in End War? lol
Remembering playing that Dota map "Extreme Candy War" solo in Warcraft 3 and just enjoying farming gold and upgrading the units until you'd eventually won. Or that Starcraft 2 where you had to eliminate obstacles so the terran could make its way through.
Is there any other RTS with similar gameplay out there or shouldn't that kind of game not be called RTS?
>Is there any other RTS with similar gameplay out there
yes
>shouldn't that kind of game not be called RTS?
correct. you should go play citybuilders
Citybuiders are shit. Settlers 2 and 3 are the only ones that had right ideas about it, everything after might as well not exist as it did exactly frick all in pushing genre forward.
Settlers is about logistics, they're not actual city builders
I think I only played one of the titles over ten years ago but the Spellforce games are supposed to be this mix of RTS and only using a party of heroes but with mostly RTS controls.
buy and play c&c remastered
the rest happens automatically
There's better odds of 90's point and click games coming back than RTS. The problem with the genre is it becomes less about strategy and more of who can execute a build order faster via high APM... and this is coming from somebody that loves Brood War. BW was particularly exciting to watch when witnessing incredible micro plays, but I figure if you're going to get good at that sort of thing you may as well try to be a pro MOBA player. SC2 completely eliminated micro because Blizzard is run by idiots, and without that everyone realized that genre is repetitive as shit and boring to watch.
It's no longer about upgrading armies and sending them at the opposing army, but the shady deals you have to make with secret societies and political organizations to convince those armies it's a good idea to go to war in the first place. Eventually Time Strategy.
Remember Achron?
literally just saw this while scrolling for another image.
did anyone play this shit?
how did the timeline shit work
made no sense to me
yes coop is the only way forward.
SC2 had something really great going with the coop before they stopped developing it
Honestly a coop stand alone RTS might work out pretty well
>genre where 1v1 is the main game mode
>unpopular
wow what a surprise
Are Empire Earth sequels worthy?
What about Earth 2160?
2150: moon project is worth playing
idk about the rest
dark reign 2 is also worth playing.
so is pic related
by making it fun.
>delayed
>delayed again
Game?
Tempest Rising
C&C generals 2: Actually being released edition
3drealms.com
Honestly? Tempest Rising is actually more into the original C&C area instead of the Generals one. With some RA3 in it if you add that not!Nod has a literal tank-crushing ball as a unit.
A new Blizzard without DEI and with people that actually love making video games. Would be great if some of the old guard came back.
But that doesn't look fun for whoever is getting rolled on.
>think of ai feelings!
disgusting botlovers i swear
b***h get rolled on.
We must resurrect the king of wings.
By making a trifaction RTS medieval style game where the faction are in that order, the human dominion, a kingdome of mostly full blood human with a supremacist feudal ideoligion, it would have as you would expect brave knights, siege weapon along with tamed colonial tribal anthro auxiliary police that believe in the human supremacy, the dominion units and building are more expensive but are generally superior to the other factions building, the second faction would be the savage, various tribals encampments that, as their name imply they are made up exclusively of barely intelligent anthro, they are technologically inferior in every way compared to the dominion, still stuck in the Neolithic age, they worship totems, and various gods, they see human as disgusting (but arousing) creatures their units would consist of fast cheap expendable warriors that can hide in the vegetations that are dangerous in the early stages, the last faction is the resistance, made up of local anthro warchief that decided to team up to have a better fighting chance against the dominion, they are technologically supperior to the savage by a slim margin, they not only believe that human are inferior but that they must be enslaven for various purpose, mostly made up of anthros and human slaves, they are a mix of the savages and the dominion in term of units and building
>disgusting (but arousing)
>tribal auxiliary colonial SS police gf that worship humanity and bring more spoils of war to you
Need
Gem
>believe that human are inferior but that they must be enslaven for various purpose
This indie game called Line war has what people are asking for. Slower gameplay, less micro intensive, simpler controls. Sadly the game never really caught on, 10000 map seeds so every game could be unique or players could agree to play any seed so some became favorites. 2 dudes developed it who were very active with the community, hosting tournaments. Hell even used a true skill ranked system not the modern bronze to masters shit
>Sadly the game never really caught on
no campaign no buy. simple as that.
A lot of people really liked pic related, and the popularity of MOBAs seem to hint at people liking the focus on micromanaging one (or just a few) heroes with RTS controls. It's a shame that there's no PVE MOBA that occupies the space between RTS and the way more fast paced and theorycrafting focused ARPG games.
there was once some pve dota shit and league shit but they got deleted or were insanely unpopular
>there was once some pve dota shit and league shit
What was it called? Any gameplay footage?
there's some dota events usually based around fighting bosses and waves of ai and mini games
they brought them back multiple times and they go away quickly
and there was league's twisted tree lines which got deleted because it was "boring" because people just played the objective and ignored the enemy team until it came to pushing
Neither of those were like hero defense from wc3 custom maps and that is what people wanted out of it.
>he never played the kino that was demigod
The Last Stand mode for DoW II probably comes across as being the closest thing, gearing a hero unit and micromanaging it with two others in a wave-based survival mode. It was decently popular, surprised Relic didn't pull it out for DoW III.
Limiting it to one game mode is pretty unfortunate, what do you do if you don't specifically like the wave defense mode? I never played last stand but DoW II's campaign was pretty fun but a bit linear.
>there's some dota events usually based around fighting bosses and waves of ai and mini games
>they brought them back multiple times and they go away quickly
That sounds like half-assed afterthought and not a game designed around the idea
>and there was league's twisted tree lines which got deleted because it was "boring" because people just played the objective and ignored the enemy team until it came to pushing
I played the shit out of TT and I don't remember this being the case ever. The small map made ganking very frequent and since there were only 3 creep camps on your side of the map (after the remake) the jungler was forced to invade or gank constantly specifically because there was so little creeping to do. I wouldn't say that map was anymore PVE than Summoner's Rift, arguably it was less PVE because the objectives mattered even less.
>not a game designed around the idea
they couldn't ever do that because that would keep people from playing competitive
it's also why they killed the arcade section in dota
>this being the case ever
basically the game mode got less popular over time and the meta changed and so less people played it even more and riot didn't want to put money into making actual fun game modes or characters instead of power creeping everything into one dash instant kills unless you are a ranged character who right clicks which you then get cucked for eternity which is the reason why I quit that game a decade ago
>they couldn't ever do that because that would keep people from playing competitive
>it's also why they killed the arcade section in dota
I would hope it's economically viable to focus on single player stuff, since they keep pumping out DLCs for AoE2 I assume they still make money from people who just want to chill and play the campaign.
Singleplayer mechanic intense games just simply don't sell it's why all the top selling singleplayer shit is linear press button do epic
it sucks and modding in games is dead so there's not a lot of places you can find anything remotely similar
Ig the closest thing would be some indie game like a roguelite or like or whatever the frick they call it
>DoW II's campaign was pretty fun but a bit linear.
just play the campaign in coop then.
koreans are autistic morons who give themselves carpal tunnel. pc bangs are popular there because everyone's too poor to own a pc.
if you seriously think starcraft / warcraft 3 are better games than every single TBS, FPS, RPG, whatever, you're beyond worth even trying to argue with.
The guy you're replying to wasn't even talking about C&C or AoE, he mentioned Homeworld (an actual masterpiece), DoW, and CoH (more tactical, less click-speed RTS)
Diablo 2 and LoD were their biggest hits at the time, these were not RTS, nor were they made by Blizzard directly. SC:BW wasn't really an esport in korea until like 2003.
Maxis was king, even at that period, just off of the sims, or Rockstar, with GTA3. Deus Ex, THPS 2, MSR, MediEvil 2, Perfect Dark, Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, NOLF, Sacrifice, AoE II: The Conquerers, EverQuest: Ruins of Kunark, Homeworld: Cataclysm, WWF: No Mercy, MDK 2, Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver, Quake III: Team Arena, etc, all came out that year.
If you're going by sales, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1, 2, Madden NFL 2001, and The Sims, all sold more than Diablo 2.
Since you called them the "American Nintendo" I feel it's worth mentioning that Pokemon Stadium, Red/Blue/Yellow, Gold/Silver/ and of course Majora's Mask / OoT, all sold much more in the same time, up through double in some aspects, and that's just looking at the american market.
at that point, you might as well play a diablo like ARPG game instead.
So a base defense aarpg where progress resets every match. Ain't no one playing that so no one made it even as a mini game
>So a base defense aarpg where progress resets every match
That's not at all what Rexxar's campaign is.
This was just diablo with a warcraft coat of paint.
Actually diablo 2 had more units (summon druid / summon necro)
It's different from any ARPG I've ever played, in terms of controls, pacing, resource management and probably more things I can't think of at the moment. It shares some similarities but it's far from a 1:1 comparison.
I never did, I looked up some gameplay and it just looks like a singleplayer MOBA?
WC3 never had sync kills
You might like Spellforce.
I mean really really like Spellforce.
There's a free demo of Spellforce III. Try them.
This guy is like arguing about Pizza vs Ice Cream, both suck!
GO PLAY MYTH/MYTH2/MECHCOMMANDER/MECHCOMMANDERGOLD/MECHCOMMANDER2/COMMANDOS/FALLOUTTACTICS/ETC
RTT > RTS
I think I briefly tried Spellforce I or II (or watched my big brother play it) like one and a half decades ago, do they need to be played in order (and have the older titles aged well) or should I just dive straight into III?
3 is a prequel timewise, but also messed up some lore from the first game that a lot of older fans weren't happy about. I'd go into 3 right away. In fact if anyone has thought about playing any Spellforce I'd say get the standalone expansion Fallen God, its campaign is a great 20-30 hour experience
Both are great.
RTT = RTS
>A lot
Yeah before it released and only blizz wienersuckers remained
SHOW ME WHAT PASSES FOR FURY IN YOUR MISBEGOTTEN KIND
RUUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
>solves the RTS genre
>gets forgotten
not even close
How's the AI War 2?
Make high quality RTS games in Roblox so zoomers want more of the genre then actual RTS games get more sales.
It's pretty easy, just shift all your competitive ranks up where even the shittiest player will feel good about themselves saying they're this rank and add a bunch of confusing sounding ranks for the actual good players where it doesn't sound appealing to the layman. Then people won't care as much about their rank.
Giving a lot of customization and modding is the main thing. Like actually allowing custom models, textures, etc. As a kid I played more mods than the vanilla RTS game itself.
And the various shitty AoE2 and AoM mods.
Biggest difficulty in RTS is hotkeys and build orders. There should be some easy statistical build order UI for players that's super simple to understand so players can copy paste that and where it's shown in casual games what to do.
Add a way to make new accounts easily or reset stats. This will make players less stressed about learning & losing in an RTS because they can start fresh again.
Smurf detection where it highlights players smurfing in an easy understandable manner.
Anyone misses Tychus?
>Damn, Jimmy...
Where do we land on RTS/RPG hybrids like Spellforce?
Simply stupendous.
StarCraft 2 ruined other rts games for me
It has dogshit story, art direction and music, but amazing unit control
It plays like an RTS game in the apex years of 2d RTS
i actually didnt completely hate the campaign levels in wings of liberty.
the other campaigns really sucked though.
i do like how good it feels to move units around in. most games are not that responsive, which is really sad.
battleforge?
Yeah, that's the one!
>i do like how good it feels to move units around in. most games are not that responsive, which is really sad.
SC2 is the most responsive RTS ever, units feel like liquid when they move around. Other good games like Red Alert 2 suddenly feel very clunky when tanks constantly zig zag or AoE2 where they do weird turns and reshuffle just to stay in formation.
>complaining that lumbering tanks are lumbering and behave like tanks instead of weightless cardboard
And this is why we can't have nice things.
If you're a mech fan I can understand why you'd want some big unit that moves at 5 MPH and creates a minor earthquake every time it moves its legs, but very fluid and responsive movements feel better to play and translate better over to other gamemodes. That being said I understand SC2 being a bit too floaty, personally I prefer WC3 where units have a noticeably bigger hitbox and bodyblocking actually matters beyond "ok during one point of the game one race can use the zealot to block a choke vs zerglings".
>"ok during one point of the game one race can use the zealot to block a choke vs zerglings".
This is bad game design. Terran can lift a depot
Protoss, an infinitely advanced civilization beyond our wildest dreams, haven't come up with a fricking door system? Can't they make a pylon phase in and out of existence or something? It's pathetic.
he means multiplayer-wise. the 30vs30 aspect especially.
yeah i miss that game
did you get to play End of Nations while it was still playable?
the sad thing is people were actually excited about this piece of shit total starcraft ripoff
yeah every game should have positioning not matter at all like sc2 where you can throw stuff in a 500mph dropship or warp in units anywhere on the map or nydus worm to anywhere on the map or ruin the game for 2+ years because of swarm hosts spawning infinite units from half the map away yeah man really good
>did you get to play End of Nations while it was still playable?
Nope. As usual, I missed everything there ever was.
By the way, wiki says that Battleforge was actually revived!
https://www.skylords.eu/
>the sad thing is people were actually excited about this piece of shit total starcraft ripoff
hey don't you be talking like that. it ripped something off mass effect too.
>units feel like liquid when they move around
This is why it doesn't fricking work.
Giant balls of units that move like one big unit leads to shitty deathballing and massing --> A-move armies. Especially protoss.
Wings of Liberty is the least offensive campaign, but it has its own share of colossal narrative moronation
>1st cutscene establishes Tychus to be working for Mengsk
>sir, this Tychus guy is a shady character
>last cutscene has Tychus *gasp* working for Mengsk
>Raynor simping for Kerrigan
>the completely irrelevant mutiny plotline
It also has a problem of not knowing what to tell and what to show
>colonist escort mission
>hybrids being the ultimate threat, but are just a big dumb beast that slashes things
Was Amon really in the wrong? Xel'naga are literally parasites.
Anyone remember what was that RTS game that had magic cards monsters summons, I think it also was by EA too.
It had really giant monsters too. It was in those earlier, Warhammer Fantasy MMO times.
Too much time investment and thinking involved for the modern gamer.
When they were super popular you had 2 sorts of people playing RTS games: competitive multiplayers and then Everyone else.
Competitive multiplayer RTS is fundamentally imperfect: RTS's by nature have snowballing, so when 1 players starts winning a little they win progressively more which is very frustrating, very unfun for the loser. So the in a maybe 10 minutes long match half the people your game have a shit time. This is why multiplayer games today are in genres not prone to snowballing, but also have specific features preventing it. You could say MOBAs were the perfection of the imperfect multiplayer RTS.
This will never, ever, ever get solved, ever. You will never, ever, ever have a huge competitive RTS scene again. It was purely a result of a.) some developers only knowing how to make RTSs so they make them, and b.) Competitive fans not having anything better to play with. There could be comp RTS in future but it will only be built on the back of a thriving singleplayer audience.
This still leaves Everyone else, however. "Casuals" "losers" "scrubs" "girls" etc still like games where you build things, train soldiers, accumulate an army and power, manage an economy and then watch a battle. The Everyone else crowd has dispersed to different genres like citybuilders, survival games, grand strategy and more.
The only way the RTS genre will be revived is if it goes full into appealing to the singleplayer fans of RTS's.
They want base building (unlike DoW2), persistent characters (like C&C and Warcraft 1 started), campaign story (every successful RTS had one), campaign interactivity (like DoW Dark Crusade where you pick what battle you fight next), customisation (paint schemes like Relic RTSs). And they want to actually be able to watch the fun battles, and that's why people still insisted on playing Supreme Commander zoomed in seeing units instead of zoomed out with unit icons.
I assume SC success in comp sphere is likely due to, among other things, smart business choices by Blizz in regards to Koreans, but it's just an assumption, I never cared about SC to that extent at all, only played it for an hour or so.
>competitive RTS scene
As with all scenes, it's a zeitgeist matter.
>They want base building (unlike DoW2)
If it's a hero focused game then I could go make do without this one. It could be fun to have some form of base management (like making grander decisions on how to run your kingdom/personal estates, granting different bonuses or campaign outcomes) but every mission doesn't have to have the same "put X workers on gold and build supply buildings+barracks" base building.
By the way, it's funny that with this approach, essentially no one enjoys the game. The defeated, seeing the snowball rolling towards his base, after the defeat of his troops, will simply press alt+f4. And the winner will not be given the pleasure to smash the base of another player.
In the end, everyone was left unsatisfied.
Strategic Blueballing Initiative (SBI)
It'll circle back around, it always does. I remember when RTS killed off turn based strategy in the late 90s early 00s. TBS is having something of a renaissance right now and RTS will come around again.
Did some good turn based strat game come out? Another civ clone come out? Has someone made a civ clone that limits units to like 10 and instead units just get more powerful. Spending 10 minutes a turn moving/attacking with 50 units is so tiresome once late mid game sets in.
The only people that still care about RTS are starcraftgays and aoe2gays
Good luck making those care about any other RTS
What other strategies other than dawn of war had kill syncs?
Total War Warhammer. Did WC3 have a version of it too? Or is that an implanted memory
C&C gave humanity Klepacki music, which alone is grand. It's so wondrous that it's genius.
All you need to BW, its the greatest game ever made
>How do we revive the RTS genre?
like this
never going to play your game. no matter how many BAR shills keep appearing in RTS threads.
>barely any singleplayer content
>barely differentiates itself from supcom and still doesn't hold candle to greatness of TA
>ultimate rts
Surely you jest.
HOUUUSEE HARKOOOOOONNNENNNNNN
the C&C and AOE fan cope in here is so funny, you know your game is inferior, and so you type 40000 word disertations, sad!
A true game fan appreciates things as they are, much like with all other art, all these games are great. Trash talking with pretenses on the other hand, is neither objective nor beautiful.
SC2's success was what made RTS fail because corporations took its sales as the minimum target for any future RTS games. I hate SC2 because of this.
>split campaign into 3 separate games
>still charge people for nova covert ops
>still charge people $5 for coop commanders despite no development on it for years
>somehow blizz still has revenue stream from this, people still buy skins for their units
how could you possibly compete
true
i mean it's up there, but...
you guys are fricking this up
warcraft was a dune2 clone
warcraft 2 was a c&c clone
you're saying they're both influential but you're like fricking up the reality here
westwood = soundgarden/screaming trees/mudhoney
blizzard = pearl jam/nirvana/stone temple pilots
they've kind of made all the commanders free now.
>they've kind of made all the commanders free now.
no?
up until level 5
thats it
you still have to pay
for every commander except raynor/artanis/kerrigan
Start catering to people who'd play it, not watch it.
he posted the bait.
It's not bait, that chart is proof that the e-sports crowd was wrong all along but now that you're presented with evidence you refuse to acknowledge it.
not going to entertain you any further unless you post the source of your made up chart.
It's from the "demographics" section of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XehNK7UpZsc
Why revive it? All I need is Korea time with Ganker
>can't wait to watch videogames
AK-47s FOR EVERYONE
>tfw OUR BASE IS UNDA ATTAK! again
You can still have this on /vst/
>or outliers, like TA.
TA was a very successful game.
So was KKnD, AoE, Dark Reign (a C&C clone, but DR2 was not), Dungeon Keeper (Yes, sort of an RTS), Dominant Species / Impossible Creatures, War Wind, Machines, Z, etc...
In fact the only ones I can think of that actually failed at the time were Dominion: Storm over Gift 3 and maybe 7th Legion.
RTS was just a very popular genre at teh time.
Outlier in a sense of being really unique, of-course.
>7th Legion
Frick me I haven't thought of that game in decades. I remember playing it on my old Win98 PC thinking I was having fun. Then I got Red Alert 2.
/rts/ is waiting for the same genre saviour for years now
Not a single one of them released yet.
9 bit armies came out like 2 weeks ago. Guess it bombed?
It is okay but it is a game that would never do well commercially.
>ugly to look at, some units are unrecognizable mess of pixels
>early access
>very heavy online focus
>no marketing whatsoever
>tastosis korea time is dead
>all we have is gypsy and nyoken
kill me. i miss scan+nyoken.
All it takes is for a company that isn't publicly traded to make one, public companies demand constant growth and rts is niche.
>All it takes is for a company that isn't publicly traded to make one, public companies demand constant growth and rts is niche.
you didnt buy crossfire legion
Whom did you pick, Tosh or Nova?
both, duh
ghosts are more OP but spectres "Seemed" more OP
story reasons it's better to pick tosh since he actually has fricking dialogue and stays on your ship
>the lights
pure ludokino...
how can people think warcraft 3 was the best rts when shit like this came out years before and had fully rotateable 3d camera and customizable units and underground tunneling and shit like this
>how can people think warcraft 3 was the best rts
They have horrible taste.
Because of custom maps and heroes
Warcraft 3 is really great for RTS players that don't like RTS
WC3 only remembered as fondly because of custom maps, it wouldn't have nearly as much impact, recognition and staying power without them.
Probably because the story, music, sound design, tone, art style, characters, customisation, and snappy gameplay were far superior. Oh yeah, and they had the best cinematics in the industry.
>the best cinematics in the industry
I thought so too, until....
Dow 2 came out in 2009 you stupid fat frick
I mean, only couple cutscenes are highly detailed, I get your point, but the Warcraft 3 cinematics were just on another level, as if you were watching best fantasy cgi movie in history, even warcraft movie from 2016 wasn't even that impressive in comparison, just more shiny and face capture more detailed, nothing special
>the brief 3rd person sequence showcasing the Total Xenos Death simulator that we never got
kek I loved this game as a little guy. I didn't remember the cutscene being so long
rofl the heads on pikes
i was gonna mention this game earlier but i didnt
right, there's like, relationship stretch goal or something...sad.
>>the brief 3rd person sequence showcasing the Total Xenos Death simulator that we never got
uhh anon?
https://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/55150/
>Oh yeah, and they had the best cinematics in the industry.
Oh yeah, you're full of shit
ROFL my nig the original starcraft has better cinematics than this
"my nig", you're wrong and underage, "blud"
westwood live action was kino
Soon
Is Rise of the Reds still being updated? Man, it was great.
I'm still fricking pissed about the absolute state of SC2's writing
>Kerrigan got away with everything
To be honest, I'm not particularly bothered. At least Jim got his love back. Eh, maybe God made a choice.
What do you mean? It's fantastic
<==test==>
>bug loving c**t gets away with it
Won't be the last time that this has happens either kek. Raging c**ts + bugs = a bad time for everyone involved.
Please give me a Dawn of War remake, it's a game that is still relatively alive even to this day
>Soulstorm
>697, playing a min ago
>1,057, 24-hour peak
Those are really good numbers considering how old it is and how niche RTS is today. A remake could genuinely develop a community like AoE2 remake did, and be sufficiently popular to continue to receive support. I'm not sure if I'd trust modern Relic with a remake, but considering all they'd have to do is remake a past game it shouldn't be too difficult.
That's nice, what about dow 2?
Retribution is surprisingly lower
>268, playing 6 min ago
>427, 24-hour peak
Plus it's split between singleplayers, last stand, and multiplayer. I used to play Retribution a lot and I have faith that even today you can find games relatively easily.
I suppose comparative unmoddability of dow 2 contributed to that, 1st was easier to mod, 2nd only had singleplayer mods, I think?
Soulstorm people still play because of the Unification mod, but I think the other expansions had better campaigns.
I am particularly fond the Necron one and Winter Assault.
love how this applies to even mediocre games like Grey Goo
I play this game but i dont use steam so i dont count in your numbers
i think many people from my era / age would avoid steam if they can and use the gog versions or the original disc versions
yea the custom maps were great, tower defense and footman frenzy and shit, but i mean the actual fricking game, who cares?
i know people who bought the game just to play dota, never touched campaign or 1v1/4v4
If tropes work they work
2's Kerrigan voiced by that hot babe from Battlestar, yes?
Rts is a dead genre
>gaming become to casual now
>why make rts when some generic shooter makes you billion
Your only hope for rts now are indie solo devs
If Starcraft 3 to ever release with current blizzard in charge(lol), then I would want to return back to southern federation routes of 1st starcraft for terran, no satire bullshit, make zerg scary again and not just sentient bugs, make protoss mysterious and scary, make the combat gritty and realisticish, gore should on the menu, also fire anyone who worked on sc2 script and hire other writers with experience in military documentation and political struggle in sovereign countries.
How does one make them scary if you no longer feel threatened by them?
1. design it so that harassing isn't such a c**ty game mechanic or possibly it shouldn't exist at all and feel like an actual tactical move instead of sending 1 footsoldier somewhere to hack at your lumberjacks. Supreme Commander was quite good with this, you couldn't really harass people unless you actually put in a bit of effort into forming a proper attack army because the defensive turrets were balanced in a way where single attacking bombers or tanks would get killed by a turret very quickly but if you had 10 t1 tanks (which is still cheap to produce) it could be a great attack. But you had to invest into using your factory for making 10 t1 tanks instead of upgrading it which was also very valuable.
2. put far more emphasis on the strategic element, diplomacy game modes, phantom game mode. It's a strategy game for a reason, not a tactics game. RTS games died because only autistic people want to play squad tactic micro management
3. RTS games are supposed to have epic looking bases, what is this 5 building shit
>RTS games are supposed to have epic looking bases, what is this 5 building shit
I wish there was an RTS that let you build a Sim City like giant settlements (simplifying the management part) and have actual mass destruction.
dropping bombs on a residential area would be way more satisfying than 1-3 designated production buildings.
Not exactly the same at all, but Cossacks had some big battles, I think.
doesn't look much bigger than AoE except army sizes. Big army games exist, I mean bigger base building.
Anno lets you battle but it sucks because its very simplified and not the main focus of the game.
>I wish there was an RTS that let you build a Sim City like giant settlements (simplifying the management part) and have actual mass destruction.
Imperium Galactica II got very close to this since you had contend with orbital and ground invasions in real time. If you were efficient you could have your residential districts covered with rocket forts while the planetary defense guns assist any fleets and starbases stationed in orbit. It depresses me at how neglected ground combat is in general for space games like it is an instant game over once the main fleet is gone. MoO 2 did this shit like 20+ years ago with some races having defense bonuses associated with the concept. Sure your average metasweat might just glass the whole planet but there much more room for potential if you expand on these areas. You could have a GLA tier insurgency effort that plays out on the planet while the enemy tries to contend with whatever relief force that you send. Planets become a finite resource that can't just be nuked without a justifiable cause like a denial of territory or last ditch efforts
SC1 - Dark sci-fi, space horror, subtle alliance between unlikely allies to defeat a common threat
SC2 - WoW in space
Diablo 1+2: Moody, Atmospheric, Unsettling, Dark, Grounded
Diablo 3: Cartoony WoW in Hell
How come RTS animations peaked 15 years ago?
ALIEN BEANS
We just don't know.
squad tactic games are a big reason why RTS games died. No longer could you buy an RTS game on the shelves and be sure that you would get a proper game with base building and armies. Instead you get the most dumbed down baby game where you place buildings on predesigned spots and capture flags like it's a match of CS:GO and the biggest your army would ever get is 10 units. Of course the genre dies when you bait people like that.
Interesting perspective.
All Dawn of War 3 had to be was DoW1's gameplay style with DoW2's graphics. That's all we wanted.
You know, you're pretty on-point. Moving to dow2 was rather meh.
Dow 2 was shit precisely for not going full Xcom autismo, it stripped most of RTS and limited unit cap to 10 units, while the only new mechanics were cover and gear loot, everything else were dumbed down to the point it was no longer fricking fun, it was dow2 which catered to moba gays first, by making all MP maps 10 times smaller, to the point that macro were no longer required at all, dow 3 disaster is a direct result of dow 2 being successful and dumb devs taking it as an approval for their Moba cancer to further spread on the game mechanics.
Agreed, if dow 3 was just dow 1 with expansions and dow 2 graphics, relic wouldn't be getting it's staff fired by Sega after coh3 fiasco
I don't think mobas had yet become the popular thing when DoW2 was released, it was honestly unique and original take on RTS, and ahead of its time.
Unironically soul, the devs loved the universe and were ready to experiment, even the balance issues with Soulstorm are not that big of a deal considering most modern RTS can't even make more than 3 shitty balanced playable races on launch
Dawn of War has some of the best voice acting there is, too. It's just so damn memorable.
>when the voice fits their unit just right
Will anything ever top it?
Darktide schizo pyskers wished that could channel this level of unhinged rage tbh.
Darktide in general is wasted potential: the game. It's a massive shame because once again Fatshart managed to make a game with very solid core gameplay and mechanics, and excellent visualization of 40k's world. Shame about all the mistaken decisions they did with it, from plot to level design or faceless character creation.
Hopefully Darktide 2 will fix everything, I'll continue to play Vermintide 2 until then.
>Hopefully Darktide 2 will fix everything,
it will undoubtedly double down on all the worse aspects of 1.
Darktide not having anything like this is why it'll forever remain inferior to VT2 regardless of how much it adds content or improve gameplay. They'd have to rebuild character creation from 0.
>They'd have to rebuild character creation from 0.
>rebuild
more like scrap it and focus on a select group of well made characters.
>darktide 2
I thinks that's impossible, considering FatShart isn't dropping VT2 support anytime soon and they still have 40k whales to milk with DT, considering that helldivers 2 did infinitely better with the same cursed stingray engine and have bigger weapon roster, more mechanics, mechs and more enemy variety, the swedes who fear the snow would rather kill themselves than make darktide 2, even VT3 has better chances to become real.
I'd love VT3, please make it you useless Swedes.
they have less than 10k playing both VT2 and darktide combined. i don't think the microtransactions could even support their paid vacations anymore.
We didn't have new content in darktide since like november of last year, they barely even push bugfixes and balancing, it is unironically over.
they should just let it die. every time they update it, it is so lackluster and it feels like they are prolonging the suffering of a dying animal. besides the gameplay, DT should serve as a lesson on how not to make a tide game for them.
>the fricking mission briefings in Gabriels Angelos' journal
> "There is nothing left. Nothing, but blasphemous heathens - and the mighty Space Marines who will destroy them."
Old... friend...?
>Old... friend...?
I didn't come to this thread to cry.
Angelos VA deserved an oscar
>my spleen
Dawn of war is a canon represantation of all races voices, nuhammer can't compete
Haven't they released a ton of RTS games lately? What else do you boomers hant?
Submarine Titans.
Thank GOD. Somebody remembers.
You don't happen to draw really hot art and play Crossfire Legion, do you?
No, I don't believe I do, my fellow carbon-based lifeform.
damn was hoping you were the only other guy i met who knew about submarine titans and definitely browses this site
There are others too.
heh
Was End War an RTS?
The devs certainly call themselves as RTS. Not exactly an amazing game but I'm still salty with the lack of a sequel. They were planning for something major with it before Ubisoft pulled the plug.
It's worth noting that the overall difficulty of video games has dramatically decreased over time. In the 90's, it was much more common for games to be brutally difficult, regardless of genre, to the point where players regularly couldn't get past the first few levels of a game
By the 2010's, video games were tailored to a much more mass audience, which means that games became much more accessible, with fewer hair-pulling bosses and unforgiving mechanics. These days, truly punishing games are confined to specific genres.
What I'm getting at is that RTS is too hard for the current market of "gamers"
>one WoW horse made more profit than SC2
There is no hope left for RTS.
Always hits me
For starters three things.
1. Stop aping AoE and SC.
2. Don't build balance around e-sports and don't try to artificially grow it.
3. Build the game around single player first and then use the single-player experience and transplant it into multi.
As a bonus: Experiment with other mechanics.
We just need a new Blizzard.
No thanks
HOLY LOOK AT THE SIZE OF 'EM
the issue is RTS games have run out of ideas and are really uninnovative now. new games are always derivatives or ripoffs of older games.
the lack of new ideas in the genre has become such a big issue. I'm unironically only looking forward to new RTS games with new and interesting setting like pic related.
Do they really need new ideas if the previous formulas work really well? You don't have to reinvent the wheel for the same of reinventing the wheel, you can take a tried and tested concept and put it in a new setting with some QoL changes.
>put it in a new setting
except nobody does that. let me list out the upcoming big RTS games and their "influences"
tempest rising - mainline C&C clone
stormgate and zerospace - SC2 clones
global conflagration - C&C generals clone
industrial annihilation - Total annihilation clone (most probably)
DORF - KKnD and C&C mixed
etc etc. I don't like how creatively bankrupt this genre is these days. they need to put more effort on the story, setting and atmosphere.
Some do but you won't hear about them if you don't do regular dumpster diving in upcoming and new releases on steam. Here is one, it is probably meh, but i didn't get to pirate it yet to try properly.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1486140/Microcosmum_2/
looks like spore's first phase.
dustfront looks kinda new.
>make unique RTS game
>no one fricking plays it
>make copy of other RTS game
>people actually buy it
It's your fault, idiots.
?si=E2uGS14Dk4hcRdhw
There's some other game I can't remember the name of where your units had to stay in the light underwater and light sources were a resource else things would get swallowed by the fog of war.
>subseige
>unique setting
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1259380/Submarine_Titans/
lol try again.
all games in general have difficulty in making a new setting. you can always say that one game is somehow reminiscent of another. also there is very little scope for new ideas in the industry now and instead they should focus on making better games while not being 1:1 copies of old games by better implementation of everything else.
Bring back good ol' voice acting of sc1, then we'll talk
>you want a piece of me boy?
doesnt sound the same without the disco/prog rock soundtrack.
also i feel mixed about the "click unit 4 times now it starts making jokes" shit. it's fun and all and was a requirement for blizz rts but i dont think it fits the tone of what some games would be going for.
i think lords of magic: special edition AKA "LOM:SE" already had this setting
as did HoMM
and uhh
stormgate has some demonic hell shit as its setting for some of these
>LOM
lol that's a blast from the past.
>HoMM
not an RTS game
>stormgate
aesthetically looks and feels like a Pixar movie. that's just awful art and pretty sure the story will be just as bad. besides everything else is a carbon copy of SC2.
>not an RTS game
heroes hour has real time battles :^)
fine maybe try dungeon keeper / overlord then
>dungeon keeper / overlord
they are RTS hybrids.
rts needs:
1: heroes you get from lootboxes, you need to get the same hero multiple times to upgrade them to their max potential. each one has a skill tree that has really minor upgrades that actually do almost nothing but will get players to argue and theorycraft over it (i.e. +0.5% kinetic defense vs +0.5% energy defense vs +1 health)
2: a main stronghold that has daily quests that you can do in about 10-15 minutes, mostly tapping random shit, sending out drones to gather resources or explore areas for your next missions, radio dialogue with your officers / heroes you've unlocked so far, buildings to upgrade that affect your units in the actual RTS missions, upgrades for the units, possibly some customization for the units or at least the hero's units etc.
3: dating sim elements with heroes/officers/squad
4: an overarching world map where you send out your squads for next missions, and customizable squads for the levels you start. (Kane's Wrath had something kind of like this)
4b: limitations on the squads, you can only pick ~5 heroes/vehicles/supporting equipment. when you deploy in a zone you only start with one, and as you tech up, other ones become available
5: automatic macro / unit production, something sort of like a button that just says "Expand" that will automatically send a worker and build a new main harvesting base and saturate the minerals there. also an adjustable in-game autobuild, like a queue that you can tap and select the units you want, and what percentage of your army you want it to be, with a little slider, and it will automatically build ~50% tanks, 25% supporting vehicles like artillery, 15% support infantry, whatever. toggleable on and off. on by default if you float over 1k minerals at any point in the game, automatically turns on and starts building you shit. player must pick a "Default" unit comp for this at the start of the level.
6:must be playable on console. see: supcom2, universe at war, gaylo wars, etc.
char limit
FRICK RTS ESPORTS I WANT WARCRAFT 3 set in space if they make SC3
also that new rts from the ex-blizz guys stormgate I think it's called looks like complete trash, that shit looks like a mobile game with worse gameplay if that's even possible
>also that new rts from the ex-blizz guys stormgate I think it's called looks like complete trash, that shit looks like a mobile game with worse gameplay if that's even possible
yep
it's shit
the vibe / feeling is very important. sound design is critical for this.
have a nice day
>godsworn
that's just reskinned WC.
No, it's more like AoE meets Northgard.
Warlords Battlecry had heroes 3 years beforehand, but they didnt have items until battle realms i think.
>boot up starcraft
>terran 1 starts blasting
RTS success is all about the soundtrack and unit voicelines
>Red Alert 2 has 5000 players on Steam after the re-release
Maybe remake that game for starters.
Battle for Middle-Earth 3
>Battle for Mid
You now remember.
I enjoyed age of mythology a lot and I want to play the remake, but what a dev said in an interview about making it more competitive has me kinda worried, since it could take out what made the game special for me.
>making it more competitive has me kinda worried,
they are basically making it more micro intensive. if you don't like it then stick with the original. there are still more than a thousand players playing AoE 2 HD edition rather than the definitive edition.
Online is infested by cheaters though
Why is it always a mech faction? Why can't we have more primitive organism based factions like zerg or tyranid?
I love this game so much
tib sun was just dripping with atmosphere
nothing else like it out there, even today..
WHERE THE HELL ARE THOSE REINFORCEMENTS?!
Impossible
The market is gone
MOBAs are just simplified RTS to where you just manage your hero/"big" unit, that's why LoL is so popular
You'd have to somehow make a game that's more than just managing one unit but isn't complex enough for mass market appeal, but also isn't boring so people won't drop it right away
what RTSs have the best campaign?
for reference, my favorite rts that ive played is Sup Com. i like bulding experimentals, i don't like controlling tons of little units.
>i don't like controlling tons of little units.
AoE2 has lots of campaign variety, but if you don't like that then you probably won't like AoE2. Dawn of War 2 focuses entirely on just managing a few hero units, WC3 offers a variety of missions both with base building and some no-build missions. Starcraft 2 campaigns are pretty good, if you want to you can more or less solo the whole Zerg campaign with Kerrigan if you play and upgrade her right.
DoW2 by far
dawn of war 1: game of the year edition has the best campaign and you dont control that many units since everyone is in squads. at MOST youll control about 10squads+7 vehicles.
I like how there are multiple ways to approach objectives in mental omega even if some missions are absolute bloated garbo.
dow dc my favorite.
I never get tired of repainting the map and dressing up my commander.
God damn, how do I accept the fact that because of a piece of shit called dow 3 I'll never see a proper dow with gameplay from the first part and graphics from the second part?
ppl were talking about this earlier in the thread.
sad.
All of those above are good recommendations but the company of heroes games are also their own great twist on the genre and restricted number of units.
You can also play the campaign of Act of War which is the most underrated rts out there.
BRING BACK FUN SINGLE PLAYERS
LET US PLAY AS ALIENS
FRICK PVP gayS
Would be nice.
i bought both coh3 and steel division 2 for the weekend
>i bought both coh3 and steel division 2 for the weekend
>he bought shit just before the spring sale
lmao
steel division 2 is fun but i tried out coh3 and didnt like it compared to coh2. i hear it's closer to coh1, and i didnt like what it did to the US.
unironical answer:
>cap apm at 60 (1 input max per second)
+
>balance around most people, not around the highest end
great players would still dominate because that one action per second would be the most optimized and meaningful every single time
while at the lower levels, for 99% of people, you wouldn't have kids hopped up on crack clicking everywhere and dominating their mmr range over more strategic but less dexterous players
the reason most people drop out of these games is because nobody wants to lose despite the right strategy simply because your opponent clicks 3 times faster
Who's actually happy Jim got Kerrigan back?
>SC1 : I will be the one to kill you Kerrigan
> SC2 : oh I still love you Kerrigan
wtf were they thinking. this franchise would have died without the Koreans riding its dick so hard.
Me.
>won on heroic difficulty with no loss in men of war 2
>achievement not popping
>graphucal mod to make the game look less like shit lock you out of achievement
Man frick localized damage, vehicle should just have a fixed healthbar and no armor penalty
Have you tried playing it instead of crying on Ganker about it being dead?
I still don't get what the frick happens to raynor at the end.
He probably offs himself now that he has no purpose in life, Mengsk is gone and so is Kerrigan. He killed his buddies for some alien pussy that ditched him.
Any extremely underrated rts you'd recommend to anons looking for something different?
Something that doesn't fall into the SC/C&C/TA bucket?
Stuff like Original War, or hybrid RTS like Battlezone?
impossible creatures, warzone 2100, the AVP RTS game.
>hybrid RTS like Battlezone?
sacrifice
this one ALSO influenced warcraft 3 a lot
super underrated
There was one where you control flying city that is also a battleship of sorts which you can change layout of and do the usual logistic things so your shields, guns, engine etc were all powered up. Can't remember the name of it for the life of me though.
Found it, pic related if anyone interested. Don't think there is anything similar released since.
What do you mean by revive? Warcraft 3, SC2, AoE 2,3,4 alive and more of this ranked in all this games found you opponent almost instantly.
They're dead because new RTS games that release don't let me spend 40 minutes doing nothing and still win vs the AI
>e-sports focus
>adhd plague
>gamepad as dominant peripheral
How can you revive something if the world it lived in is already gone?
as dominant peripheral
You have no idea, dude.
We are more out of touch than we realize.
I was at a PAX East booth demo'ing a game and kids came up and didn't know how to use the controller, was asking how to link their phone to the game or where the touchscreen was, where they tap, etc.
It's even more over than you previously thought.
don't care. I'll keep using kbm till I die.
By letting sc2 die
Every neo rts uses sc2 style and it dies, like sc2, because the remaining fans are mentally unstable
AoM is coming, there's a chance
by taking a very popular IP and continuing the story of it in an RTS game.
you trick people into playing an RTS to find the few that would enjoy it. also you make it way easier than starcraft, also a mainly co-op/team game and the matches can't last 40 minutes like AoE or AoM
>)
https://arstechnica.com/civis/threads/strong-similarities-between-war3-and-battle-realms.886532/
>Kohan and Battle realms ripoff
>Sacrifice ripoff
they took a popular genre and game and made it better? with a good story?
idk what your point.
If you added units and unit production to Factorio you would have the best RTS of the decade.
>ctrl-f rise of nations
>ctrl-f rise of legends
very disappointed, Ganker ....
>Poor anon never graduated to 4X games
I feel sorry for you RTS asiaticclick Black folk, maybe grow up and start playing real strategy games.
>waiting for mana the genre
The last decent paradox gsg was hoi3, and even that is a fricking stretch.
By any metric that's not "top 1# game in Twitch", RTS are doing fine.
Not many 10+ (and even 20+) year games get live tournaments and mantain a 10k playerbase.
RTS still survive (SC2/BW/AoE2), just way downsized from their peak.
10k+ playerbase for 1v1 ladders*, I mean.
Goddamn i fricking hate esportsgays
If you don't care about online playerbase and competitive scene, why do you care whether they are "dead" or not? You can play campaigns alone.
Because i want new games you fricking moron, new games that try new things and do not kneecap themselves on design level by chasing esportsgays such as yourself.
Bro they dedicated a whole console for you guys
You're a fricking moron if you think esports had anything to do with RTS development drying out.
>new games that try new things
why are morons obsessed with reinventing the wheel
they tried new things btw and they all flopped LMAO you were probably playing halo so it flew over your head
So by your own logic RTS should stay dead and we should all be content to replay warcraft 3 for the rest of our life because the genre mechanically peaked in the 2000s and it can never be improved or spun into a new direction ? It must be a pretty sad state of mind: To think the the genre you claim to love reached perfection 20 years ago within the wall of an office building in Las Vegas that was about to be sent to the glue factory by electronic arts.
RTS would first have to die to stay dead and considering I can launch any of 10 different RTS games on my PC and get a game within 1 minute it's safe it's not dead
The most active RTS is clash Royale and its has more active players than all other RTS combined lmao
1. Brood War
2. AoE 2
3. DoW 1
4. Sup comm
5. Lord of the rings BFME 1&2
No longer pretending that it is dead would be a good start I suppose. I know that starcraft 2 broke everybody's brain and now everybody pits anything remotely close to an RTS against it to perform the RTS fan equivalent of self-flagellation but I seriously don't understand why. RTS peak popularity was a freak accident, an anomaly in market trends and consumer purchase patterns that will never come back. No amount of blaming blizzard for muh asiaticclick or shitty storylines (as valid as these are) can change the simple fact that RTS where on their way out no matter what.
However I think it is complete nonsense to declare the genre dead for it. Microsoft keeps re releasing ensemble's old glories because AoE still has an audience. BBI made desert of kharak and are making homeworld 3 as we speak because the genre isn't dead. What happened alongside the release of starcraft 2 is that RTS lost a playerbase it was gonna lose either way as people shifted their interest to other genres that catered more efficiently to one aspect of the RTS systems they favored more than the others. As it stands now RTS is a niche genre that only a minority of people have an interest in. (It's not at all weird that AoE4 bombed and the remasters sold well, 90% of these purchase are based on nostalgia and nothing else.) If you compound that with the God awful attitude of remaining RTS fans who refuse to stop lamenting the death of their relative as everybody else can hear cry for help from inside the casket and jerking off to SupCom or AoE2 as if no game came after or before. That and RTS being fairly complex games to design made it so that almost no studio even wants to try because the ones insane enough to do it would be doing it for an audience of 50 jadded buttholes who would just dismiss them and go back to their fiftiest Forged Alliance skirmish game of the day while posting that nobody is even trying to please them.
I flat out disagree with all of you
If a quality game is made today it will be noticed and discovered, regardless of the genre
I myself want civ but real time instead of the faux turn based game we have right now
RTS is dead, it's too stressful for mass online play, be honest PVP is not relaxing. Those who like the stress are playing mobas. Campaigns take more money then pvp and PVP is where game longevity typically. It's not like a 4x where every game is it's unique story.
the duality of man
I have played PvP both in real life and video games so I don't find it stressful at all. I used to play team games with my bros vs AI but they said RTS is too stressful, I don't really understand it but oh well.