>Firstborn characters with any loadout variety gone...
>CSM bikes, termies, and chosen with anything other than mostly bolters...
>My Brettonia 2: Electric Boogaloo CoS army...
>My Skitarii even got gimped because they went from perfectly legal squads of 5 with 2 of the same special gun to "it has to be 10 dudes and one of each of the completely different guns because that's exactly what a single box comes with".
What the frick is the point of building anything when it's just getting thrown out the next update?
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>he buys/builds/paints miniatures only because he wants to use them as game pieces
if this isn't a neckbeardia thread, think about whether the hobby aspect has ever been enjoyable for you, if the process brings you joy, if having the finished minis around the house makes you happy, and if you like to show them off to your friends. if none of these are true, maybe consider playing videogames/board games/card games that involve zero personal effort in the game pieces
Play OPR.
Get other people with cancelled armies to play OPR
Its a better ruleset anyway.
>OPR
>Isn't one page
>Rules are just dumbed down purely to be concise and nothing else.
lol
OPR manages to perfectly beat warhammer at it's own game by having the exact same level of tactical depth but also having almost no content. Turns out warhammer is just mostly packing peanuts.
I looked at the MTOPR (more than one page rules) grimdark sci-fi pdf, and I can assure you that it does not surpass the best edition of 40k (4th).
OPR sucks ass, takes all the flavor and fun of 40k to make the game faster so all you are left with is some hollow shell of a game.
>all the flavor and fun of 40k
Where?
Of course not, but nobody plays it. Warhammer's worst elements were settled when everyone moved onto 5th for no justifiable reasons.
>but nobody plays it
My group does. Keep your OPR to yourself.
I'd say opr is about the same level of "flavor" than 3rd or 4th edition 40k.
Well, you appear to be a barely literate ESL, so I guess it's understandable that you don't know what the frick you're talking about.
I played 3rd and 4th edition 40k. For example, before the notorious 3.5 codex, alternative force organisations for different traitor legions were provided in the index astartes series and it was quite simple. Iron warriors had no restrictions for obliterators unlike other traitor legions. They could sacrifice two fast attack slots for one extra heavy support, could only have one unit of khorne berserkers as cult troops and had access to the vindicator and the basilisk. Their lord could also take a servo arm. There were no subfaction traits, secondary objectives, stratagems etc. The legion rules fit to one white dwarf page. Come to think of it, the undivided traitor legions in 3.5 had rules that fit to only one page.
>Come to think of it, the undivided traitor legions in 3.5 had rules that fit to only one page.
I'd go further and say the faction rules for Undivided legions are maybe an index card at most if we're being generous since each page has fluff text and as an image that takes up between a fourth to a half of the pages. Alpha Legion had cultists and Black Legion had Abbadon, and then the rest were just a few restrictions and some special traits.
Yeah, even the God-specific legions had pretty short rules sections, around 3-4 pages fluff included. I think their wargear took up the most space?
Luckily I have my copy out since it's a nice little book to just pick up and read, so I can give a quick rules breakdown ignoring fluff and illustrations.
>fourth of a page on Marks
>Half to 3/4ths of a page on wargear/gifts
>couple of paragraph of army rules and restrictions
>about half a page for psyker powers
>small statblock for the unique characters
So nothing too wild even compared to the Undivided legions and absolutely paltry compared to later editions. Though compared to later editions most of the mechanical beef comes from wargear options and veteran skills/daemonic gifts instead of bespoke units, subfactions, and strategems.
>takes all the flavor and fun of 40k to make the game faster
So exactly like the last three editions or so of 40k?
Not gonna lie I can't tell if OPR is good or bad or if Warhammer 40k players are so sunk cost fallacy'd that they won't consider it a good system as it may invalidate their rulebook purchases.
Maybe the correct answer is all three of them.
Truth be told the Warhammer 40k community needs a "community fan edition(s)" akin to how Epic has community fan editions like Net Epic and Net Epic Armageddon. A sort of nice community edition to bounce back on if GW screws up the current or next edition of Warhammer 40k that everyone can pick up that supports all models and even the legends models.
But knowing GW I bet they'd DMCA that into the ground quickly. It may not hurt their model sales and may actually increase their model sales, but there is a chance that such a thing might hurt their codex sales.
There are other ways I can use my 40k minis, but personally I've gone the way of agreeing to play older editions with fixes my buddies and I can agree on. I just think that the OPR stuff is too minimalist, and when it's trying not to be, it kind of defeats the purpose of calling it 'one page'.
>I've gone the way of agreeing to play older editions with fixes my buddies and I can agree on.
What are these editions?
And which one would be the best candidate for being "updated" in the sense of just balancing and new models added to the respectable rosters of factions?
4th Edition provides the best 'base' to start with. We try to keep 'hard' fixes like outright changing how some rules work to an absolute minimum, so most of our 'soft fixes' are at the army construction/composition level. I play IG in 40k, so as an example, I asked if people would be okay if my Hardened Veterans had an option from the previous codex (that being, the option to add a 'Hardened Officer' to the unit), they said yes. Collectively, we've been working on rosters for factions without a 4th edition book, and brainstorming rules to add some of the new stuff to the older ruleset (again, as an example, those Ordnance Batteries for IG were something that seemed like a good fit).
A "Fourth Four-ever" Warhammer 40k edition doesn't sound too bad really. But I doubt GW would permit such a community edition to exist. Would be cool if something like that existed and was permitted though.
As long as you don't publish it for a wider audience, you don't have to worry about that.
I guess that means no websites for downloading the rules like how Epic fan made editions have.
The problem with a 40k Community edition is you have a frickload of hurdles to cross that continually divide your player base. Do you like hull points and vehicle facing? Blast templates? If a newbie shows up with a Primaris army do you have rules or that or do you tell them to frick off? Do you like 3.5 Chaos codex/Ork verhicle customization even though it makes attempting the semblance of balance nigh impossible? Hell just choosing an edition to use as a base framework is tricky since no one will have a consensus on what was the "best" edition of 40k.
The consensus on the best 40k edition is simple: it's the one you played as a child.
For me I'm content with OPR. Would be fun to play xenos rampant with 40k models, but the listbuilding application of OPR and premade rosters make it easier to approach than XR.
They aren't JUST game pieces, but they were made with that purpose in mind as part of it. But now they ARE demoted to JUST something. Just ornamentation on my shelves to only be looked at and never taken down to use.
And yeah, most of the characters have a lot of love and attention put into them that they can stand on their own, but there's some whole units of essentially armyman filler that are just sitting there now.
Why are you trying to frame it as though appreciating your models means you can't give a toss whether they remain game legal or not?
I'd be pretty miffed if my favorite models that I spent a lot of time on were no longer usable in the game. That did happen to me, as a matter of fact. My old 5E Dark Eldar lists are no longer usable because of the rule of three. Same thing happened to my Death Guard squads, specifically because of the loadout issue in OP's statement. I still have my beloved models, I just don't play the game anymore. Instead I made my own wargame that is made to be a game instead of an excuse to sell plastic.
>What the frick is the point of building anything when it's just getting thrown out the next update?
I wouldn't know, the game I play hasn't squatted anything in 40 years
Just play old editions that you like. You don't need to chase what GW is doing.
Not OP, but the player pool for a non-current edition vastly smaller. I'm all for sticking it to the corpos and doing whatever the hell you like, but the fact is rule changes have made it much more difficult for OP to enjoy the game if he does not want to spend further money and time just to stay compliant.
I agree with OP's sentiment that it's hard to invest yourself into creating your dudes if said dudes can be rendered obsolete at any moment.
I feel that all the people you'd actually want to play with would be on board with it. Who would you be eliminating from your player pool? People who can't conceive of playing not-10th? 40k tournament players? Sounds good to me
>tfw playing 10th can filter out "that guy" just as well as oldhammer can filter out consoomers.
Hey you're welcome to use your weird playmobil marines as proxies for actual space marine units if you want
>I agree with OP's sentiment that it's hard to invest yourself into creating your dudes if said dudes can be rendered obsolete at any moment.
> obsolete at any moment.
It seems to me that minis listed by OP were available and legal to use for many, many years. And you can also rebase most of Firstborn characters/ models that got upscaled and nobody will throw a fit.
The amount of time the loadouts were legal is effectively irrelevant. Not everyone gets into the hobby or builds their armies at the same pace and GW shifting their unit rules every 3 years hasn't helped in the slightest. And some of these kits do change within a single edition.
Pirate the new rules via the mega links. Use your models accordingly.
Stop spamming your units. Rule of 3 is there for a reason.
That's a great sentiment, and would be great advice if any of these was a single-player game, but instead it actually means having to find another local player who also wants to play a specific older version of the game.
Which basically comes down to convincing one of my friends "hey, let's play some old ruleset where you probably forgot how half your army works, you can't use anything made newer than this date, and the stuff you can use might have been utter garbage at the time, just so I can run the weird army that I want,".
Why play with primarisharts anyway?
The problem with this argument is that the core game sets the expectations for everyone. Sure I can continue to play 5E 40k, but nobody else does. This is at best a defeatist argument, and at worse a cynical shill argument. If you don't like the way something is going, voice your dissatisfaction
NTA but there's nothing stopping you from voicing your dissatisfaction while playing oldhammer. As a matter of fact, playing oldhammer vocally is probably the most sincere criticism of current editions.
In some areas they just don't exist. Oldhammer and /awg/ can thrive at LGS or meetups but even then, when picking up /awg/ it's advised to see what's popular at your LGS. If the demand just isn't there, or isn't organized, you're drinking what's on tap, which is current 40k.
There are probably a ton of players who dislike change x or y but hold their nose for the huge network effect that GW provides.
You don't have to buy new rules, you can just play the game you already own.
You don't need to run them WYSIWYG.
Don't give a shit what gw says or does with the rules, I'll play older editions or fan rules. Their "updates" have no power here. They used to endorse this.
Has there been an attempt to make "universal" Warhammer 40k rules? Something that places heavy emphasis on backwards compatibility, allowing each unit and weapon ever released to be used, while also continually incorporating newer additions by GW to the "roster"?
Just keep giving gw money, surely it will work out.
First, I don't buy minis.
just do what every sane person would do:
continue to be a passive observer of the hobby as you have for the past decade
Why would I play the llatest edition? I play with old rules that give more variety and options and encourage fun modelling projects.
When it's all chewed up and shitty the only choice is to move on to greener pastures, my friend. Get off of the ranch and become a wild stallion.
Oh no, my game pieces will get new and improved models in 20 years, how horrible!
I hate GW!
>>Oh no, my game pieces get new and improved models in 20 years, how horrible! I hate GW!
My Flames of War Germans have been written out of the rules and a new central European power has been invented whole cloth to replace them. Legacy rules for Germans were published initially but now they arent considered game legal.The units aren't the same, making proxying as problematic as my Germans were deemed to be.
Fortunately the models are bigger!
Verification not required
All I want these days is a tidy up of 4th with alternating activation, and unfortunately so far every 4th remake keeps igougo. I understand, but it doesn't interest me. Even simplified or sped up or adding in reactions, it's still a very large amount of time to spend just rolling armor saves and telling your opponent what your stats are if they forget.
>keeps igougo
I will never understand this kind of play unless a cooperative play PVE. Alternating activation should be a must in every wargame that wants some kind of balance and the rules should bend in order to work with it.
certain games make igougo work. but they build around them. there are two factors I think are important for that. one is that the game is attrition based. huge swingy turns where you wipe out all the guys like in Infinity are not conducive. games that focus on positioning and attrition like musket games are better for igougo. second is player engagement and resource management. in Longstreet when its not my turn I am still deciding to spend cards for saves or special abilities on your turn, this impacts how your turn goes and also consumes my limited resource of cards. Longstreet might actually be the best example I can think of for igougo done right.
I played pancake edition, and alternating activating was interesting, but clunky as hell.
My experiences with Necro AA were that I (with the numerically superior cultists) was always trying to draw out enemy actions by trading actions having plebs do nothing behind cover and then punishing him with someone useful once he had committed. That or wait out all his guys actions and move my remaining guys with impunity.
Thats why I prefer OG Necro UgoIgo- you need to make a plan and commit, you can't just opportunistically wait for the other guy to screw up.
have you tried not playing 40k?
Hear me out:
Homebrewed rules and exceptions for your favorite pieces with tweaks agreed upon by the players.
heresy.
Just play older editions.