Where you have 3 members locked in while the other slot is just open for a rotating cast of guests? Why don't other games do this? It allows for more variety
 Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
 UFOs Are A Psyop Shirt $21.68 |
Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
One of the worst, least thought out design decisions for a game with a progression system like that. You have 3 members who can actually do something, and 1 who's always useless, including Leon unless you grind when you finally get him.
It was very common at the time though, FF kept using it pretty frequently too until FFXII, SaGa also used it for a couple of games before shelving it in favor of unlimited recruitment slots, Tales of also had many notable examples of guest characters, with PS1 Destiny being perhaps the best example of that,.
Nowadays games don't do it anymore because it's a very old TTRPG design choice that didn't survive through the years, it originally came from the old TSR Dragonlance modules where you had not just premade PCs, but also npcs which would join as party guests and would be handled by the DM.
FF2 like all of Kawazu's work is heavily influenced by TSR Dragonlance and it more or less set up the narrative model that the japanese industry would follow to this day, while in the west this was done by other games such as Pool of Radiance.
A full rotation of many guest characters is kind of rare now because most people dislike how those characters are throwaways, so usually you get only one or two of those at best, even so singular guest characters are still extremely common in the medium to this day in both east and west.
The only issue was that guest characters do not scale with your party, because at the time they had no idea how to do that in a system that had no character levels and relied on nonlinear character building, later FF didn't have this issue because they went back to linear leveling (outside of 8 I guess but 8 is a mess in general), but it took SaGa a while before finding that sweet spot for their different system to make it work.
The gameboy SaGa trilogy kind of gets around this issue because the rotating party members stay around for very short segments and the games are much more balanced than FF2 in general, in those games guest characters usually carry you instead of being a burden like in FF2, outside of Minwu and arguably Josef.
>FF kept using it pretty frequently too until FFXII
That's heavily dependent on how you define Guest. You could honestly say that they stopped at 6
VII had the flashback sequence with Sephiroth, VIII had Edea as a guest during the trip to Esthar, IX had Beatrix in the party for a sequence, X had Seymour in the party for one boss, XII once again had rotating guests that kept dying like FF2
>X had Seymour in the party for one boss
Was that even a boss? I don’t remember it being at all challenging.
Yeah, like I said it depends on your definition. Sephiroth wasn't even part of the main party and they others were around for a few minutes. Not really the same level as 2, 4, 5 or 6
>Not really the same level as 2, 4, 5 or 6
Josef is around for a single dungeon in 2, no different from people like Seifer or the Tantalus chumps in 9, same thing for Gordon.
Edward, Yang, Cid and even Palom and Porom are all around for one or at best two dungeons, so again, no different from the later games.
FF5 doesn't even a real guest since Galuf is just there to book the fourth slot from Kryle later, who doesn't leave either.
6 had Banon, who again exists only for a tiny "dungeon", the hidden ghost character that exists only on the Ghost Train dungeon and Leo, who's around for a single battle, so I don't see how that is different from again, people like Seifer, Edea, Reddas or any other guest from the later games.
Cid and Yang are part of your party for a pretty substantial chunk of the game
Really, no for 4 and 5.
In 4, party members come and go based on the plot. That's very different from having a locked-in party (or a flexible group of generics ala FF Tactics) with a slot or two for guests. There's never any real "guests" in FFIV except MAYBE FuSoYa at the very end (and he is implemented identically to every other party swap in the game)
Plus in a few of the rereleases they put in party swapping for the endgame and let you make a party with any of the characters minus FuSoYa
I miss when RPGs would just lock your party based on the plot and characters who have ceased relevancy knew when to knock off. It's not as if I don't get wanting to keep a character you like around to some extent but if they're not gonna really say or do anything then it really just feels better to make their segment more meaningful by making it finite.
Sephiroth in the party during the flashback really emphasized how powerful he was in a "Zero saving X at the start of Mega Man X" sort of way. I like it when games use mechanics to show you stuff like that instead of giving people FMV POWERS
Tactics and 12 had guests for most of the game.
Tactics had Delita as a guest for the entirety of chapter 1, and Algus for half of it. Chapter 2 you had Agrias as a guest for most of it, Gafgarian as a guest for some of it, Boco, Delita, and Ovelia as guests each for 1 battle, and Mustadio as a guest for some of it. Chapter 3 had Olan and Alma for a battle each, and Rafa for several. Chapter 4 had Meliadoul, the optional Beowulf sequence and then the Reis follow up, Zalbaag, and then Alma in the final fight.
12 had "Amalia", Basch, "Lamont", Vossler, Larsa, and Reddas.
I would say there are definitely no guests in FFIV or FFV.
FFVI does have a few (though they are fully-controllable). Biggs, Wedge, the Moogles, and Banon. Maybe the ghosts.
FFVII does not have any (I would not count Sephiroth)
didn't play VIII
FFIX, sort-of, again in the fully-controllable FFVI-style where you have the Tantalus guys as temp party members for tutorial-type stuff, but overall even less like the "guest" feel.
Tactics definitely has traditional guests, though. Early-game they function as helpers (Delita/Algus/Agrias), mid-game mostly to demonstrate new mechanics (eg Mustadio and guns), and later game as mostly liabilities needing protection (Ovelia, Rafa, Alma).
Fun. If only they didn't paired it up with ff2's job system which make it way better for your guest characters not to attack or take hit. Which i give them only shields.
I like it, but they should have buffed the fourth members or at least given them something special to bring to the team for their limited run
I like the characters themselves a lot.
Voice of Cards 2 does this except you have 2 guests, it only really makes sense if the story calls for it and I don't think that fits most JRPGs.
I thought it was fun. The 4th member is always scaled up enough that they help out. And in FF2 it helps reinforce the devastation of war when that 4th member gets killed off. My only qualm is that i wish we spent more time with Leon.
Yeah I liked Leon's concept a lot, FF2 could really use the kind of treatment that FF3 and 4 got on the DS with expanded story and characterization. The foundation is great, but the limits of early Square's inexperience really holds it back.
In the anniversary remakes they added an extra hard bonus act called Soul of Rebirth. Not too much in the way of story, but it was neat. However, it focused on Minwu, Josef, Richard, and Gordon’s brother Scott for some reason.
>for some reason.
Because it's the good guys that die during the game.
Best version of FFII to play? I've heard the pixel remaster is too easy
PSP version has the most content and best music and graphics.
All versions are piss easy, the only difficulty comes in how many bugs and glitches remain.
I honestly think all the versions look pretty good, in their own way.
It honestly amazes me how the pixel remasters manage to somehow look WORSE than the old original versions.
Because they put no effort into it
That's the thing though. They did. They made a whole new game and graphics style. I would have been less work to just up the old games resolution.
They seem to have reused a lot of assets from the Origins and even GBA versions for most of the games. The only really new assets were the character sprites which are obviously simple and lazy (even moreso than even the originals in the case of VI), and the music.
90% of the assets come from the GBA versions, yes. The main difference is that they reverted the monster and character sprites that were changed in design back to the ones from the original games with improved graphics. The games themselves were completely rebuilt in Unity, with native widescreen and now 120+ FPS support. They put a lot of effort into the remasters, but the artist who redid all the character sprites did a terrible job.
At least on PC we can mod the original sprites back into the game and just get enhanced versions of the original games that way.
>At least on PC
On the PC I can just emulate the originals.
You can see the soul decline and disappear as you go down the image. NES release was full of SOVL. The rereleases lost that soul.
Do boomers really?
He's right
t. born in 98
FFII is probably my favorite for Amano designs, so I prefer the post-NES-pre-PR versions that capture his designs in the sprite work, something not really seen in the NES version. Hell, it's essentially one of the only times that this is really the case, since IV-VI had fairly different designs from Amano for their sprites and no version has changed this.
Based on the recent gameplay breakdown, it looks like this will be how Xenoblade Chronicles 3 will work. However, instead of a permanent 3 members, it will be 6 with a revolving 7th. Hard to say if there will be much choice in the 7th slot, or if it will be entirely based on story-progression/side-quests.
I don't mind it. It makes a lot of sense to have characters be full members of your party while they travel with you, even if only for a little while. I think the game needs to be built around it too much for it to be a standard feature, though.
>All versions are piss easy, the only difficulty comes in how many bugs and glitches remain.
They're pretty hard if you try to play them properly. Most of the difficulty reduction comes from munchkin strategies like double shields or peninsula of power abuse.
You don't really need any of that, just choose one weapon type, who you want to have as a full time caster and stick to it, that's it, if you're playing the NES version in particular you can also abuse all the bugged spells like Frog.
I never did any of that and sailed straight to Pandemonium without grinding or difficulty. The pacing is pretty balanced and I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to cheese the game, aside from having an autistic PTSD fit the one time they stray too far on the map in the beginning.
It's interesting but really bad when paired with FF2's system. Specially when Leon finally joins you, his hp is abysmal and he has no magic or just lv1 ones (I don't remember). They should've just let me keep the cool pirate girl.
I always shipped Firion x Layla. And I shipped Maria x me:3
FF1's party was better
I don't remember any party member from FF2
Shame, because it established a lot of Final Fantasy mainstays.
Like?
Chocobos
Cid
Dragoons
Dark Knights
Behemoths
Ultima
Blood Sword
Not him but FF2 set in stone a lot of things for FF
>Love triangles and the tomboy third wheel with Leila
>Cid
>Dragoons/The Highwind family namesake
>The entire Dark Knight archetype which was created with Leon
>Leviathan
>Mysidia
>Party member betrays you, which started with Leon
>Heroic sacrifice from your party member, see Minwu
>The Ultima spell, and most of the recurrent spells like Shell/Protect come from FF2
>Chocobos
>The vast majority of the original FF monsters like bombs, behemoths, coeurls, Iron Giants etc. all come from FF2
>Lots of recurring equipment names or archetypes also come from FF2
FF2 was when the series first tried to create an identity for itself, which is partly why 4 copied most of it down to characters and general story beats.
Don't forget party members dying by plot, handedness (granted this became cosmetic very quickly), stories not focused on the crystals, the 9999 HP cap, Final Fantasy 2 could be called the first true Final Fantasy for multiple reasons.
2 has my favorite cast, aesthetically speaking.
I liked it. I was hoping for more from FF12's guest system too. I thought it would be similar to 2's with a rotating cast but really there's only 5 guests and 2 become party members fairly quick after they're guests. (Vossler, Larsa and Reddas as the general guests, Basch and Ashe as the guests who become party members. I think Ashe's is only a boss fight too)