+20 to special def.
Enough. Pair it with Snow setter like A-Ninetales (Aurora Veil) or Slowking (Trick Room).
Really, I feel like between all the crazy toys that defensive Ice-types are getting lately it's just question of time when they will get broken.
"Super effective" means not a lot when Pokemon's defenses are of the roof.
66 base spdef with EV investments with +50% from snow and Aurora Veil on top of it? With 95 (can be upped to 100) base HP and Ice Body? And it's still the weaker side defense-wise? And it still can hit reasonably well if you prefer TR attacker set?
Obviously it still needs a bit of setup to work, but sounds reasonable in case of getting better setup mons than Ninetales or Slowbro.
New ability: Permafrost
Halves damage from all neutrally effective moves.
Still keeps the paper-thin SpDef and 4 common weaknesses, but gives it actual resistances so it can actually switch in on things.
I think you underestimate how bonkers Avalugg's defense is. >252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 266-314 (67.5 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A strongest STAB Close Combat (working off of a 190 base attack) can't OHKO it. And this is from a mega evo of a restricted mon in the first place and megas have been retconned out of existence anyway.
It's already good if you pair with Slowking but if you wanted to make it an OU staple
+ 20 Sp Def so it doesn't roll over to any special attack
Snow Warning to basically make it physical Blissey
252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Avalugg in Snow: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Snow: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 55.9% chance to 2HKO
Avalugg-H needs an offensive stat spread to be good, its defensive typing is just too shit for it to be ever good as a defensive mon
>252 Def >implying you aren't going to run 252 SpecDef so it has the slightest chance of surviving anything
Literally the problem is it's type. Ice has no resistances. No resists is useless for a defensive Pokemon.
Ice should resist Dragon, Flying, Ground and Electric. The first 3 are logical since ice already hits them super effective.
But Ice should resist Electric because Boltbeam is the most busted coverage and clearly means there are general balance issues since hits everything.
His 2nd biggest problem is that it can't carry an item because of rocks.
His 3rd problem is that Ice teams need better tools, Rain and Sun have plenty of tools. But Avalugg doesn't do much on Ice teams. Call me crazy but Hail should double Ice's phys def instead of add one stage, that would make him decent offensively and defensively in hail teams.
He's okay? He has potential to wipe out a team if they put too many physical guys on, especially with tera fighting Body Press. He'd never be a high tier threat though, but at least he can do something.
+41 SpDef
Abilities go from Own Tempo/Ice Body/Sturdy to Snow Warning/Filter/Thermal Exchange
Kalosian Avalugg now has access to Mountain Gale
It's now quite bulky, with 95/184/87 defenses and access to Recover. Pair that with either Filter for a purely tank set, Snow Warning for an Aurora Veil set, or Thermal Exchange for an offensive set to use its 117 attack and Mountain Gale, and it's now an excellent pokemon.
>K. Avalugg
HP: 90 (-5)
ATK: 110 (-7)
DEF: 180 (-4)
SpA: 40 (-4)
SpD: 66 (+20)
Spe: 28
Swap Own Tempo for Refrigerate or Snow Cloak. Snow Warning is also a good option, but that's pushing it towards being busted imo. Sturdy has a use on its special side even with rebalancing, and Ice Body is too good to replace. Personally I'd prefer Refrigerate so it can have stab Rapid Spin for funsies >H. Avalugg
HP: 90 (-5)
ATK: 118 (-9)
DEF: 180 (-4)
SpA: 30 (-4)
SpD: 56 (+20)
Spe: 40 (+2)
I'm adding the Hisui version because they're both in RU right now. I wanted to keep it as similar as possible to the existing form differences stat changes. Open up its movepool to give it Jaw Lock, Poison Fang, Thunder Fang, and Hyper Fang.
Give it a new signature Ability that causes all incoming damage to be defended against by its physical defense and all outgoing damage to run off physical defense.
Even if you'd change it typing, what good would it do to it? It's an iceberg so you can't take away the ice type, and ice paired with any other type is always garbage.
Ice Scatterer - Turns the ground into Icy Terrain when the Pokémon is hit by an attack.
Icy Terrain - Unique terrain that can be applied multiple times (each application has its duration tracked separately). Increases power of ice-type moves used by pokemon on the ground by 30%. Reduces speed of non-ice type pokemon on the ground by 30% for each application.
It's already good if you pair with Slowking but if you wanted to make it an OU staple
+ 20 Sp Def so it doesn't roll over to any special attack
Snow Warning to basically make it physical Blissey
252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Avalugg in Snow: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Snow: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 55.9% chance to 2HKO
Avalugg-H needs an offensive stat spread to be good, its defensive typing is just too shit for it to be ever good as a defensive mon
A lot of the ideas in this thread are good. I figured I'd still throw out mine though:
>Replace Own Tempo with Refrigerate. Now it has an Ice type Rapid Spin and Body Slam, which are neat niches. >Replace Ice Body with a Well-Baked Body clone that ups Defense when hit with Ice moves. It could also keep the healing effect in Snow or whatever, idk. >Give it Autotomize, Heavy Slam, Explosion/Self Destruct >Give it access to an Ice type Metal Burst clone, "Shatter" or whatever you want to call it (it has a similarly named move in the TCG). Also let it learn some other new moves it could share with others, all coming from TCG as well: "Frost Barrier," a Protect clone that gives you and ally effects of Filter instead of negating damage completely; "Frozen Ground," a Ice Terrain that does nothing else but prevent the use of Terrain for 5 turns; and "Melting Floe," which cuts 1/4 HP but swaps Defense with SpDef
wonder guard
change its typi
>you can’t change its typing
give it prism armor
152 sp.def
164 defense
give it a unique recovery move that inproves in Hail
+20 to special def.
Enough. Pair it with Snow setter like A-Ninetales (Aurora Veil) or Slowking (Trick Room).
Really, I feel like between all the crazy toys that defensive Ice-types are getting lately it's just question of time when they will get broken.
"Super effective" means not a lot when Pokemon's defenses are of the roof.
66 spdef is still nothing
66 base spdef with EV investments with +50% from snow and Aurora Veil on top of it? With 95 (can be upped to 100) base HP and Ice Body? And it's still the weaker side defense-wise? And it still can hit reasonably well if you prefer TR attacker set?
Obviously it still needs a bit of setup to work, but sounds reasonable in case of getting better setup mons than Ninetales or Slowbro.
snow doesn't boost spdef it boosts def
not that aveil + 65 spdef is unworkable
95Hp 66SpD is alright. Not a special tank obviously, but also doesn't die from everything.
Ability that sets Trick Room
ice type body press
unique ability themed along glacier calving where super effective hits have a maximum % HP damage cap for some trade off like a def drop
just give it good moves
There is something I'd do to improve Avalugg, but /vp/ doesn't want to hear it.
Tell me
Ice getting a few new resistances.
New ability: Permafrost
Halves damage from all neutrally effective moves.
Still keeps the paper-thin SpDef and 4 common weaknesses, but gives it actual resistances so it can actually switch in on things.
Swap it’s speed and defense stat
By having it battle a physical attacker and not a special attacker
>Close Combat
>Flare Blitz
Wut Do?
if trick room isn't up i am working around sturdy instead
lose 40-50% hp and then use iron defense
I think you underestimate how bonkers Avalugg's defense is.
>252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 266-314 (67.5 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A strongest STAB Close Combat (working off of a 190 base attack) can't OHKO it. And this is from a mega evo of a restricted mon in the first place and megas have been retconned out of existence anyway.
People see potential in Avalugg for a reason.
>252 Def
>implying you aren't going to run 252 SpecDef so it has the slightest chance of surviving anything
That’s why I posted 0 Def and Max Def calcs moron
New ability, Shelter: When this pokemon HP goes below 50% it generates a substitute. Also plus 20 to special defense seems reasonable as well.
Change it to Snow Shelter, and in addition to generating a substitute at 50% make it also generate a substitute at 75% and 25% when it's snowing.
swap Defense and Speed :^)
>can't change its typing
Sure, I will just change the weaknesses and resistances of ice, so Avalugg can keep its typing.
Give it 255 defense
and then make all its physical attack give frozen status
too OP
but the opposing pokemon being frozen when attacking it would make it a good pivot
>*gets banned in smogon*
>43pts from SpA to SpD
>27pts from Spe to SpD
>SpD is now 116.
Literally the problem is it's type. Ice has no resistances. No resists is useless for a defensive Pokemon.
Ice should resist Dragon, Flying, Ground and Electric. The first 3 are logical since ice already hits them super effective.
But Ice should resist Electric because Boltbeam is the most busted coverage and clearly means there are general balance issues since hits everything.
His 2nd biggest problem is that it can't carry an item because of rocks.
His 3rd problem is that Ice teams need better tools, Rain and Sun have plenty of tools. But Avalugg doesn't do much on Ice teams. Call me crazy but Hail should double Ice's phys def instead of add one stage, that would make him decent offensively and defensively in hail teams.
He's okay? He has potential to wipe out a team if they put too many physical guys on, especially with tera fighting Body Press. He'd never be a high tier threat though, but at least he can do something.
>Swap Own Tempo for Snow Warning
-40Def
-20SpA
+60SpD
Give it Recover or Slackoff
+41 SpDef
Abilities go from Own Tempo/Ice Body/Sturdy to Snow Warning/Filter/Thermal Exchange
Kalosian Avalugg now has access to Mountain Gale
It's now quite bulky, with 95/184/87 defenses and access to Recover. Pair that with either Filter for a purely tank set, Snow Warning for an Aurora Veil set, or Thermal Exchange for an offensive set to use its 117 attack and Mountain Gale, and it's now an excellent pokemon.
>K. Avalugg
HP: 90 (-5)
ATK: 110 (-7)
DEF: 180 (-4)
SpA: 40 (-4)
SpD: 66 (+20)
Spe: 28
Swap Own Tempo for Refrigerate or Snow Cloak. Snow Warning is also a good option, but that's pushing it towards being busted imo. Sturdy has a use on its special side even with rebalancing, and Ice Body is too good to replace. Personally I'd prefer Refrigerate so it can have stab Rapid Spin for funsies
>H. Avalugg
HP: 90 (-5)
ATK: 118 (-9)
DEF: 180 (-4)
SpA: 30 (-4)
SpD: 56 (+20)
Spe: 40 (+2)
I'm adding the Hisui version because they're both in RU right now. I wanted to keep it as similar as possible to the existing form differences stat changes. Open up its movepool to give it Jaw Lock, Poison Fang, Thunder Fang, and Hyper Fang.
>I'm adding the Hisui version because they're both in [fanfic meta]
OP is the one using a smogon image to open the thread, blame him
weak armor
Give it base 184 sp def
-40 def
+40 spdef
+10 atk
-10 spe
Ice body now also gives +50% to spdef under snow
Give Hisuian Avalugg solid rock. Buff solid rock's damage reduction to 50%.
Crustle also gainds admission to the no weakness club.
Swap it’s attack and defence, then swap its defence and speed
Give it a priority suicide move that acts like nuzzle but freezes
+spd
ice version of toxic debris
trick room if it doesnt have it
Give it a new signature Ability that causes all incoming damage to be defended against by its physical defense and all outgoing damage to run off physical defense.
Signature ability: Inverse Aura (type chart is inverted when it is on the field).
Even if you'd change it typing, what good would it do to it? It's an iceberg so you can't take away the ice type, and ice paired with any other type is always garbage.
But muh Ice/Fairy.
Ghost would be less terrible and give you two immunities, one of which being fighting
They already changed it's typing and it didn't fix it.
That's because they gave it one of the only type combos worse than mono-Ice.
Ice Scatterer - Turns the ground into Icy Terrain when the Pokémon is hit by an attack.
Icy Terrain - Unique terrain that can be applied multiple times (each application has its duration tracked separately). Increases power of ice-type moves used by pokemon on the ground by 30%. Reduces speed of non-ice type pokemon on the ground by 30% for each application.
I play inverse battles
It's already good if you pair with Slowking but if you wanted to make it an OU staple
+ 20 Sp Def so it doesn't roll over to any special attack
Snow Warning to basically make it physical Blissey
252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Avalugg in Snow: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Snow: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 55.9% chance to 2HKO
Avalugg-H needs an offensive stat spread to be good, its defensive typing is just too shit for it to be ever good as a defensive mon
A lot of the ideas in this thread are good. I figured I'd still throw out mine though:
>Replace Own Tempo with Refrigerate. Now it has an Ice type Rapid Spin and Body Slam, which are neat niches.
>Replace Ice Body with a Well-Baked Body clone that ups Defense when hit with Ice moves. It could also keep the healing effect in Snow or whatever, idk.
>Give it Autotomize, Heavy Slam, Explosion/Self Destruct
>Give it access to an Ice type Metal Burst clone, "Shatter" or whatever you want to call it (it has a similarly named move in the TCG). Also let it learn some other new moves it could share with others, all coming from TCG as well: "Frost Barrier," a Protect clone that gives you and ally effects of Filter instead of negating damage completely; "Frozen Ground," a Ice Terrain that does nothing else but prevent the use of Terrain for 5 turns; and "Melting Floe," which cuts 1/4 HP but swaps Defense with SpDef