When taken on it's own without comparing it to any other Final Fantasy game, is it at least worth playing?
I'm an unironic enjoyer and defender of other famously disliked games like Final Fantasy 2 and Fire Emblem Fates, so my standards are low enough to endure this game as well I guess.
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You're in for a good time tbh, great art and great music along with an interesting journey
The real problem with the game is that the first five hours are extremely tedious as they dripfeed you mechanics and tutorials. When it actually lets you play it becomes fairly enjoyable. 13-2 is better mechanically but extremely different in tone (which is either good or bad depending on how you feel about 13) while Lightning Returns is unambigously a good game.
It's honestly not that bad. The locations look nice and the good music keeps you moving despite how bland the traversal can be.
The characters are good in a flawed and dramatic sense. you aren't really going to "like" them but you will empathize with them which is the point.
combat is fun and fast-paced, despite the player's limited control.
Zoomers like this game because of nostalgia. Anyone else who enjoys it is fricking braindead. The sequels are no better. FF13 was made by some fetishist who simply couldn't wish Lightning into reality no matter how many games he put out. Don't waste your time.
>Zoomers like this game because of nostalgia.
It's been weird to see the shift as they grew up and started vehemently defending it.
Like, we went through this before with FF VIII where it's okay to admit it had some very, very talented artists working on it and a greast OST but the gameplay just didn't work.
Like, I get it, it's not a full autobattler like people say, paradigm shifting is kinda interesting and it's at least a job system but holy. I mean, even AOE attacks are broken and the battle system was different a short time before release.
>The sequels are no better.
This I disagree with though. XIII-2 is bad, it has a very tropey story that JRPG "fans" can love but fundamentally it's still a bad game.
Lightning returns is a fine game though, has an amazing battle system a neat concept and has a really interesting world even if it had a poorly textured doggy.
>FF13 was made by some fetishist who simply couldn't wish Lightning into reality no matter how many games he put out.
Also Toriyama's transformation fetish is amazing, frick you. You just wish you had a beautiful rose waifu who could dress up for you!
At the same time though, Toriyama was in a shit position. He went from Nojimbo's team on bahamaslago to VII to having a meaty role in X to directing the series first full fledged sequel that was to bring back the job system alongside XI and he actually did a pretty great job at that. X-2 is a game hated for the wrong reasons.
Then he's put onto the cursed XIII project, he and nojimbo struggle with story, XIII Versus is delayed, Tabatas PSP game isn't going to cut it and he's asked to make a sequel with the same assets and does so, then XIII Versus is STILL cursed and he's asked to make another game again; although he gets to experiment this time. All because square just completely dropped the ball around fabula nova crystalis.
At least he got to actually remake VII in the end instead of being jerked around trying to emulate its success.
I had a very fun time with it, but you really have to accept that it just does whatever the frick it wants, and let it do its thing. If you take it slow and also read the datalogs as well as put effort into learning the game's jargon, I think it's good. It's definitely a game that's worth trying yourself and forming your own conclusions about. FF "fanbase" in particular is all about arguing over which game is "best," and bickering about why certain games in the series are bad if you play them the wrong way.
The game was critically well-received at its time. It's more divisive among fans, but FF is a very divisive series to begin with.
once you get to the open world its great, just power through the extremely long tutorial
Don't listen to this. There is no "open world," there is one single area in the whole game that is a wide open spot, and the main activity there is Hunts, which have an intended order to them.
Very enjoyable. It is the best looking game on the PS3/Xbox 360. Gorgeous aesthetics. Good soundtrack by Hamauzu. Final combat. Story is okay and the characters eventually become likeable. Biggest issue is the tedious crafting if you do the optional side quest progression in the second to last zone. Also you don't get to mix and match your favorite party members until late into the game.
It's disliked because it was branded as a FINAL FANTASY game, which comes with certain expectations that it did not meet. Final Fantasy fans expected a vast wilderness to trek through and towns to visit. Instead, you spend 11 out of the 13 chapters running through urban and industrial environments, and a futuristic sci fi aesthetic dominates the game. Comparatively, the diselpunk dystopia of Midgar was only 1 out of 4 discs of FF7.
Play on PC and follow the Steam mod guide. And yes, buy the RTGI shader too. It only costs $5.
>Final combat
*fun combat
As someone who also defends FF2 which is a fine enough game , I also went into FF13 with an open mind. Don't let me stop you, but honestly it was an awful experience the whole way through.
>most of the characters acted strangely, with Sazh being the most believable. He was definitely the most likable in my opinion, most of everyone else just got on my nerves. Snow wasn't so bad I guess, but Lightning was such a c**t for little reason.
>battle system was somewhat interesting, requiring buffs and debuffs is great, but most fights in practice was doing the same sequence of events over and over. Especially in more difficult fights, it was really frustrating to have to swap to healing/reacting to damage so frequently. Plus there's no good reason why Lightning dying should get a game over.
>gear upgrades were never explained well, you just kind of have to guess what items are best for which gear pieces. Plus I never felt the game gave you enough gil to properly experiment
>Crystarium system is just a watered down Sphere Grid, doesn't help that there's basically only 3 stats in the game. It's like the game was made for non-RPG players.
>barely any worldbuilding to help the player understand this new setting, what's there has to be read in the fricking Datalog lol
>don't get me started on the hallways. The whole game is just hallways
>overworld AI is cheap, the game introduces preemptive strikes but half the time enemies are coded to detect you anyway in the most bullshit ways. Sometimes the preemptive strike doesn't even work when you should have gotten in
The music was pretty good.
But yes, I didn't go into the game intending to hate it, but it really is that bad. Please do play it yourself though, and see what you think
The difference between II and XIII is colossal.
One was an experimental game by a company capitalising on its success with a unique battle system that wanted to push its storytelling on the hardware that spun off into saga. It's balance is okay, a little flawed but not terrible, but it was a genuine attempt to make something new from a team that didn't care about things game balance on the previous title.
The other one was a hyper-streamlined flashy game put out to appease fans who wanted more VII, more like advent children and bit off more than it could chew over its multi year development all while dealing with mandates by Kitase, Hashimoto and Yoichi Wada down to being rebuilt in their new game engine. It's a schizophrenic mess.
Very, especially when you have an open mind to the fact that Lighting is trans.
sex with vanille
I finally played it a couple years ago and did enjoy it, it's not a flawless masterpiece but it's weird in a way I find interesting.
I'm in the middle of replaying it right now. I was miserable the first six hours or so until I finally got past all the tutorials and unlocked more roles. Sometimes the combat can be annoying because positioning is important but you have no control over it whatsoever. So your characters might all just cluster together and the boss decides to shit out a multihit AoE attack on one of you and it's just over.
I'm biased. I love it.
I don't think it's a game everyone will enjoy, but it hit all the right notes for me.
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Long time Final Fantasy appreciator here (owned FF1 on the NES as a kid) and I thought it was disappointing but not completely terrible
PROs
-it's a final fantasy game so of course the production values are insane and the presentation does a pretty good job at capturing a sense of wonder. If you start this game you will likely finish it for those reasons alone
-gorgeous eye candy graphics and music. The music alone was probably this game's finest feature
-battle system has pretty solid depth, is fast paced and intuitive.
CONs
-depressingly linear. The Final Hallway critique is a valid one. Very few opportunities to explore the world
-a plot that was frustratingly obtuse. By the time you start to get a handle on the world and how things work in it, the game is almost over
-Does Lightning count as a woke protagonist, being a Mary Sue with clown-world colored hair?
-The game takes itself way too seriously, with nothing like Blitzball or Chocobo racing to break the tension, which makes its story kind of a drag
-Characters don't really have much chemistry. There's not a whole lot that distinguishes them in combat
-The pacing was bizarre, like a manual transmission car stuck in 3rd gear. The game simultaneously feels like a slog and that you're rushing through it and don't have enough time to grow attached to the characters.
By all means give it a try, you may find things about it that endear you to it. But it was a once-and-done game for me
>-Does Lightning count as a woke protagonist, being a Mary Sue with clown-world colored hair?
No, she's pretty. Woke protagonists have to be ugly as shit because straight men are the Enemy.
>depressingly linear. The Final Hallway critique is a valid one
This is why I stopped after 10. I liked it, but I saw the writing on the wall.
i played it for a few hours and it was basically final fantasy 10 gameplay with new characters in a new world. i dropped it when it started requiring me to do the sailor moon-tier summon shit that was epically gay and lame.
let's put it this way...
if you are sexually attracted to children, then you will love final fantasy 13.
i am so thanks for the tip anon
The story can be interesting at times, and the graphics and music are beautiful. However as others have already started, 80% of the game is one long hallway.
I went in with an 'open mind' when it released. I was happy, young and energetic, had a GF, and a job I enjoyed and I thought it was fricking dogshit. gaming has gotten so bad now but its still shit.
>I'm an unironic enjoyer and defender of other famously disliked games
OK? what is the point of this thread? go play your slop then.
>I went in with an 'open mind' when it released. I was happy, young and energetic, had a GF, and a job I enjoyed and I thought it was fricking dogshit. gaming has gotten so bad now but its still shit.
This on every point. I bought it the day it came out (also young, had gf and good job) and was so disappointed. It's just a hallway where all the towns and shops are replaced with save points. The battles weren't interesting and the characters weren't either. The voice acting wasn't great.
It's better than playing gachashit maybe.
fricking garbage that has none of what made final fantasy fun to play.
I have no clue what you guys are even talking about
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and why do leftists not understand their own concepts that they invent applying them wrongly
FF13 probably wish it was that Z-Lever but it's clearly automatic
why a game that is on rails anyway needs automatic I have no idea
What in the schizophrenic frick am I reading?
>What in the schizophrenic frick am I reading?
I'm no engineer and neither is Spoony
the guy was claiming the Z lever looks this is on purpose because
"controls for complex machinery have bends and breaks in them as failsave"
some validation is in order here because as far as I'm concered it's just a fantasy lever
there is nothing behind it and the drawbridge doesn't behave in a way that makes sense after the lever is thrown
automatic in a car literally looks like a hallway and behaves like the paradigm system
you can't switch gears manually but only how the entire car behaves
the gears no longer exist but paradigms
the downside to this is obviously the loss of control although I don't drive so who knows
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it's not a failsafe for children
the game sucks
it plays itself
end of story
troony
>I'm no engineer and neither is Spoony
I needn't read further than that.
did you unronically watch 40min of a 50:50 like:dislike rated cat video and then decided to link it here?
Do you mind "playing" a game which is just a long corridor, with annoying party members who sometimes quip? Also the combat system is just about using one button to change "tactics", you do nothing else.
The only quality of this game is that Lightning is hot. Otherwise there's nothing else.
>Also the combat system is just about using one button to change "tactics", you do nothing else.
So you didn't learn the Paradigm Shift animation cancelling tech to keep the combo going.
Final Fantasy is a series where even the weakest entries stick with me in one way or another.
I used to think the same until I have to remind myself I actually played 15 beyond the Duscae demo
Nothing about it sticks for some reason
I'm just finishing 10 and the linearity wouldn't bother me at all. There's nothing worth exploring if you don't care about spending time and 100% completing the game. I went straight towards the story because I couldn't bother with the random encounters. The meat of the game is the story, combat, visuals and music.
I might try 12 or 13 if I get another 50 hours to spare.
12 is really good
same, I even like the first game for how charming it is and also its similarities to dnd
>12 is really good
The combat AI system sounds interesting, and apparently the remaster has some QoL features to reduce time spent on it, so I'm leaning towards playing it next. I've also heard good things about the writing and voice acting.
Vaan and Penelo are the major issue with 12. If there was a way to excise those characters entirely, the story would more tightly focus on the relevant ensemble, benefitting the entire end product.
square simply felt they needed a marketable young male character.
besides, they did kind of have a role in the story, to represent the commoners and mirror ashe's struggle somewhat. but you only really need one of them for that. i'd vote to keep penelo, because she's cute.
This is a weird take, because it implies that Vaan and Penelo waste a lot of screentime that should've gone to other characters. The biggest issue with these two is that they're barely in the game and completely irrelevant.
Vaan and Penelo are more emblematic of the issues with FF12 than the problem themselves. The game is a clusterfrick of ideas that never really gel coherently. Vaan and Penelo are just the most conspicuous.
Currently playing 3 on the DS.
3 on the ds and 12 on the ps/ were the first final fantasy games I played, I love them both but 3 on ds is pretty tough
X had the narrative pretense of a pilgrammage, it makes sense that you're on a literal holy road to your fated destination, even then you get an airship at the end. XIII has a themepark that is a corridor.
>It's okay if it's linear when you're on a pilgrimage
>It's not okay if it's linear when you're a fugitive running away from your execution
>running away
good luck though because you can't build tension if tension is always there
then tension will be absent
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They are both shit designs but the devil is in the details and X is not as bad as XIII.
IF YOUR NEW TO FF HERE U GO
10>>>>>>9>8>7>12>>>>>>13>
10 is by far the best, at S++++ tier, 9 is S tier, 8 is A+ tier 7 is A tier 12 is A tier, 13 is B tier and the rest of the 3d games suck, i havnt played 16
one thing i will say about 13 even tho its garbage, the music is AMAZING blinded by light is one of the best songs in final fantasy and 13 and 13-2 hit a certain niche if u wanna feel like its 2008-2012 again
>13-2 hit a certain niche if u wanna feel like its 2008-2012 again
That's a great thing about FF, or nostalgia. Played FFX and it's like being in 2000s again
It's not that bad. 8/10 at worst. The combat is decently challenging and requires actually mastering the system around the halfway point.
It's nuts how many people are like "durr auto attack only" when that really doesn't get you too far into the game. By the first eidolon fight you'd get stuck there.
my gripe is that it's a little too convoluted and arbitrary.
I just decided the other day to give it another chance after given up on after a few hours of play 13 years ago and 11 months ago. I'm fairly enjoying it for the most part, much of what I hated at the time doesn't bother me or wasn't as bad as I remembered. Definitely going to be a one and done, though. I don't think I would ever want to go through the first six chapters again.
Shit character, shit gameplay, shit aesthetics, on rails
Some cool songs tho
You'll find it about as enjoyable as a 10-year old at a puppy play party
everything sucks except serah she's hot
exactly
op never played this shit did he.
he forgot he made this thread and never came back, didn't he.
FF13 is good. It's entirely focused on combat though so if you aren't enjoying that or the strange story then you won't like it. Graphically it holds up too. Really pretty game. Better looking than the VII remakes or XV.
>FF13 is good.
Ok fair enou-
>It's entirely focused on combat though
?????
Is it? Is it really?
Are you really, really sure about that?
Focused on combat? As in like....paradigm shift yeah, same combat system? You play the same game bro?
You sure you didn't play like another entirely different game or something?
>so if you aren't enjoying that or the strange story then you won't like it.
The strange story, well, in contrast to what you say, that's what it has, it has its story and its presentation going for it because it doesn't have combat depth or gameplay depth.
>FF13 is good
Gotta be a typo.
The story is strange and it's entirely focused on combat and the battle system is paradigm shift right. And that's good?
Ok but like, why wouldn't you say "it's entirely focused on presentation" instead or something, you praise its graphics and its soundtrack is the thing it still gets praised for to this day, you can even roll the "strange story" into it. It sure has a lot of combat, I'll give it that but I wouldn't say entirely focused more like, "entirely full of" works? Packed full of combat only with a strange story?
Focused seems like an abuse of the term. They weren't even focused enough to know whether you'd be able to select attacks a few months before release.
>Graphically it holds up too. Really pretty game. Better looking than the VII remakes or XV.
I feel like we can say yeah XIII has a banger soundtrack and looked good in '09, strange Nojima tier story and leave it at that. Feels like these comments praising it always come from places of not playing it recently and nostalgia or in defense of it rather than looking at it for what it actually is. XIII has amazing art design but those models and that texture work is definitely mid 7th gen.
I dislike XV and hate VII and even I can say damn, they sure focused on graphics again. Art style makes a huge difference.
>The story is strange
No, it's not, it's just a mirror of the classic legend of the crystals: instead of a group of heroes being chosen by the crystals to save the world, you have a group os "villains" chosen by force by the crystals to destroy it.
I'm summing that anon means focused in it's execution not the design - because without any overworlds, hubs, or NPCs to really speak of, all that kind of leaves you with are cutscenes and combat.
Depends exactly what you found boring. If you approach the mechanics from a 12 mentality, the autocombat can actually be enjoyable. And no, you don't need 300 hours to figure out where you fall on it.
I thought ffX was boring as frick, I beat 12 and liked it, I kinda of played 15 but thought it was bring and quit. Crisis Core was my favourite that I've played. I sort of want to play 7 remake but I don't want to wait ten years for the download. I also don't feel like playing games with older graphics. Basically all that's left is 13. Is it worth it or should I just not play an ff?
>Favorite is Crisis Core
Maybe you shouldn't play games at all.
Condescending jokes aside, if you liked the action aspect of it, try FF Type 0.
For me FF13 is the second most enjoyable game after FF12 on its combat alone. No other FF game has managed to innovate or replicate the fun of 12 and 13s combat since. Just dont go into 13 expecting a "traditional" final fantasy experience
I'm an autist that rambles and has a lot of thoughts so I had to break this up into 3 parts, sorry.
Gonna lay out my biases before I start. I have no nostalgia and I played XIII fairly recently. I have not gotten around to the sequels yet. My taste in Final Fantasy is probably fairly weird because I've tried many of the games in the series and not gotten into most of them (1, 4, 8, 10, 15, 7R), but the ones I managed to get into, I really really got into (several playthroughs of 12 TZA, a thousand hours in exclusively 14 ARR.)
The first few chapters of the game deserve just as much hate as they get if not more, they're fricking dogshit and the fact you don't have access to pretty much any of the mechanics, skills or progression systems until Chapter 3 while still forcing you through multiple hours of battles, is fricking stupid. Characters and narrative are at their worst because this is told out of chronological order and for the most part does not use this technique well.
Chapter 5 is the turning point where I started genuinely enjoying the game overall. Separating the characters ends up giving individual dynamics more time to develop and generally starts making characters more interesting and likeable. By this point you've also unlocked a decent amount of options in combat so it's more compelling, and party members probably peak in individuality and value from Chapters 5-9, partially because you have no control over who you use.
Chapter 7 ends up concluding the Hope/Snow arc which is easily the worst part of the game for a lot of reasons I won't get into, but Snow is the one character I never really liked even with a powerhouse VA like Troy Baker. Once that arc is dealt with, the writing is generally significantly less frustrating and I found the good aspects no longer suffering from association. I think Chapters 5-9 generally end up being the peak of this game's writing but I'd still consider it a 6/10 (Good).
Late Chapter 9 is when you FINALLY start getting control over who you want to use, and unfortunately this is where the party members start to lose individuality and value. I find there's generally one party that will be the best in 99% of situations (Hope, Lightning and Fang), generally swapping one out for Vanille if you need Death spam. This is also the first point in the game where I recommend focusing on equipment upgrades, because you're finally earning decent gil, you've got access to upgrade materials that are actually worth using and you have some stuff actually worth upgrading. With how expensive and difficult it is to upgrade weapons especially I would do some research and commit to 1-2 weapons per character at most unless you're happy to do tons of grinding in Chapter 11. The only thing I upgraded before this was Hope's Hawkeye weapon to max Tier 1 in Chapter 7 I think?
Chapter 11 is the "open world" in which you get an unnecessarily huge zone, you can go backwards to some optional areas that are semi-open, and then forwards to progress the main story and experience more hallways. All of the side content is in this chapter and you can go back here from Chapter 13 and in postgame to do more stuff with the final Crystaria stages. I did all of the side quests, and the Hunts reasonable to expect during Chapter 11 (1-34) and even if you don't want to do the side quests I would at least pick up the Hunts that unlock teleport stones, and spend literally 10 minutes fixing Bhakti in Oerba because the rewards are fricking insane for how low effort it is. Between the start and end of my time in Chapter 11, my playtime doubled from 45-90 hours, and my character stats (at least my main party) pentupled. I was really enjoying the battle system and progression at this point.
I found the story and characters to be generally unfulfilling but definitely not horrible like the opening few chapters. I think this is a game where you're more likely to value characters for their gameplay contributions than their personalities and storylines. Loved Hope and Fang for this. Sazh is the only character I would note as praiseworthy in writing.
I love video game soundtracks but idk, I never really noticed a lot of 13's music, it wasn't bad, I just don't remember most of it. I seem to be the minority on this though. Visuals were gorgeous but I was also using mods to improve it so keep that in mind.
Negative association with my boyfriend means it'll be a while before I either return to 13 or start 13-2 but I did enjoy the combat once it felt like it was worthwhile and I had more than 4 skills to work with. I don't like it as much as 12 (tied with NEO TWEWY for favourite combat of all time) or 14 (Idk why I love it so much I can spend a thousand hours in just the worst content that game has but being a catboy helps), but I like it significantly more than the other FFs I've tried. Go in with an open mind. You will probably dislike parts of it especially in the first few chapters, but I do think the game gets significantly better as it goes on.
Anyway I'll shut up now, thank you for your time.
I was sure I commented this here but maybe it was another thread..
>is it at least worth playing?
Yes, only for the combat. I've played through the game 2-3 times fully so I can't say I hate it. There are some cool environments and I love the combat. Unfortunately, I had come from FFX when I played FF13 and there is just no endgame. In FF13 you beat the game, kill some adamantoise for upgrade mats and that's it. There's no ultimate weapons or any type of endgame grind. There's no hidden superbosses. It just sucks if you didn't love the story and were coming in expecting what the other games did in the series before it.
That said, I'm also an unironic enjoyer and defender of FF13-2. The story is nonsensical just like FF13, but the combat takes center stage and there are so many cool ways to build a team. Adding catchable monsters as the 3rd party member was truly kino. I'm a monster tamer at heart so the marriage of those 2 mechanics makes FF 13-2 tied for first as greatest jrpg of all time (tied with FFX). Nostalgia rating ofc don't bother arguing the merits.
and obviously serah best girl