How long did it take for you fans of the games to feel like you've got a full grip on the mechanics after starting out?
Thinking about grabbing Crusader Kings 3. Even though the gameplay looks totally overwhelming, these Paradox grand strategy games seem like they'd be fun if I knew what I was doing.
Lastly, I was going with CK3 since I've heard it's the easiest to get into and understand, but what do you people consider the best between all the CK, HoI, and EU games, and the easiest to get into for someone who's never played something more complicated than Civ 5?
anyway they're decently hard but not too hard
Paradox games are hard to figure out why would anyone play these empty sandbox simulators
Paradox games released before CK3 is very easy if you have IQ above 100.
CK3 and games released after it require you sub 90 IQ to enjoy them, and can be figured out even by vegetable in relatively low ammount of time.
Ah, sounds like I'd better stick with CK3 then
Ah, didn't realize that so I'll DL it, but much like with Civ games, don't they always put out like a dozen DLCs after the game you have to pay for? And not just cosmetic shit but stuff that changes the mechanics of the actual games
>don't they always put out like a dozen DLCs after the game you have to pay for? And not just cosmetic shit but stuff that changes the mechanics of the actual games
Yes but standard practice for over a decade has been to buy the base game and pirate the DLC using creamapi or smokeapi
>pirate the DLC using creamapi or smokeapi
I'm clueless about this kind of thing but I'll give it a try. Would you recommend one over the other?
what are creamapi/smokeapi and what do they actually do? is there any reason to use those over just torrenting the complete editions of the games, and if you pirate dlc off them does it work if the base game you're adding it to is owned on steam?
>what are creamapi/smokeapi and what do they actually do?
they fool the game and whatever DRM/launcher the game has (paradox, total war, etc.) into thinking you have the DLC, assuming you also pirated the files
>is there any reason to use those over just torrenting the complete editions of the games
Mods, cheevos and multiplayer
>and if you pirate dlc off them does it work if the base game you're adding it to is owned on steam?
that's the idea
Not the guy who asked, but as someone who owns Monster Hunter World, which has literally 200 DLCs on Steam, I tried using CeamInstaller to add a DLC that I could easily confirm whether it's been added, but it didn't change anything. I could not, in fact, choose a Chun-Li costume for the handler.
I'm garbage at mods and messing with game files or programs btw so I probably just fricked up but idk at which point.
CK2, the best game Paradox ever made, is free now so why don't you try that?
>is free now
holy shit you're right. is there some website that lists all the games that are free on steam/gog/epic as they come up?
"free"
whole strategy outside the events is 'if your number is bigger than enemy's number you win'
CK3 is braindead easy compared to the other games
Crusader Kings, 3 especially, are the easiest to figure out
EUIV is slightly less complicated
HoI4 looks more complicated than it really is
the rest don't matter
>EUIV is slightly less complicated
meant slightly less easy to figure out, brain fart
EU4 with all the shit they added on over the years will take you quite many hours to get a hold of
EU4 is the hardest to learn at this point, also the hardest to play period, only Victoria 3 has a similiar amount of difficulty only hampered by the fact that the AI can be somewhat passive, EU4's AI will wreck your shit if they see that you are weak.
Is Victoria 3 worth playing? I thought everyone hated it because they removed combat
the worst thing about it isn't the oversimplified combat, it's the fact that every nation feels the exact same to play and there's little to no natural progression beyond an arbitrary nation formation
Ask that after the next DLC comes out in May and no if it has issues they aren't related to warfare
>muh railroading
Frick you
I started playing grand strategy games a decade and a half ago with the first Hearts of Iron, there weren't any tutorials online (didn't even have internet back then) and for whatever reason i wasn't really keen about reading the manual, i only started to "get" grand strategy with Victoria 2 and Crusader Kings 2, considering how many tutorials there are around and even in-game right now it has become very easy to learn how to play them
As a paradox fanboy, the newer games are meh. Eu4 is good, but easy to break and has 100 of dlc. Ck3 is boring and the content they add doesn't really help it. Ck2 is better. Hoi4 is fun and easy if you just meta everything otherwise it'll take time for you to figure our the best things on your own. Vicky 3 is still a mess. Imperator is irredeemable.
>Eu4 is good, but easy to break and has 100 of dlc
>Ck3 is boring and the content they add doesn't really help it
>Ck 2 is better
>Hoi4 is fun and easy if you just meta everything otherwise it'll take time for you to figure our the best things on your own
>Vicky 3 is still a mess
>Imperator is irredeemable
So as a fan, which is your actual favorite? CK2 seemed like the only one you didn't have anything negative to say about.
Eu4 is the best if you pirate the dlc. Ck2 is second best, and still requires you to pirate the dlc. Otherwise go with ck3 and get bored after one playthrough
CK2 is like CK3 but with more content, better mods and a more reasonable difficulty. And by reasonable difficulty i mean it has any difficulty at all, CK3 biggest flaw is that its way too easy.
I'm sure there must be mods that make ck3 more challenging, right?
not him but imo HoI4 is the most polished and fun, with the best mods
HOI4 is a visual novel disguised as a grand strategy game to be quite honest
as opposed to the spreadsheet and dating sim disguised as a grand strategy game
The world in CK2 or CK3 is nearly full dynamic, everything that happens in HOI4 is directed by a visual novel style pick your choice mechanics, i think a lot of people that play these kind of games want to be immersed in a world where anything could happen through many mechanics, not just "i picked left option instead of right"
all true but what happens in CK3 is rarely interesting and doesn't have enough mechanics to facilitate the kind of emergent storytelling you're talking about
>i think a lot of people that play these kind of games want to be immersed in a world where anything could happen
I sure do, but you'd be surprised at how many hardasses on the paradox forums constantly complain about spain not unifying iberia or Ulm becoming HRE because "it's not historical"
I just don't like railroading and especially i hate mission trees, i understand that some railroading might be needed to at least have a chance at the world becoming "realistic" but not to the point the player or the AI gets bonuses for following specific preset "scenarios", sadly the current grand strategy audience seems to love railroading and that's why their HOI4/EU4 DLCs are so successful, frankly i hope with all my heart that at least Victoria 3 won't suffer the same fate as those franchises i just mentioned but they already released some railroad DLCs, even before the game felt in any way "stable"
As long as there is always some variation its fine, i just don't want to see changes in the world dictated or heavily encouraged by a press of a button in some mission tree
It all comes down to AI competency which is something paradox has never cared about. What you mention about vic3 is funny because I was thinking the exact opposite last time I played, I don't care how much they have to make the AI cheat I just want them to do anything interesting. Until paradox cares about AI (never happening) I will tentatively support railroading because at least things happen.
You could make things happen by just making the AI more aggressive but more aggression without some solid logic will lead to other issues, Paradox refuses to improve the AI too much because they know a big part of their audience thinks the games are too hard already, wish this was a joke
I only know of one, keep in mind that this doesn't impact the AI at all
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2874007571
Yes but the simulation should be strong enough and the underlying numbers accurate enough that the 'right' thing happens *most* of the time, otherwise the exceptions are not meaningful. How many times, for example, does the Norman conquest succeed if you start in early 1066? The fact that the answer is 'almost never', rather than just 'not always', does not say much for the quality of the simulation they have built.
Hoi4 has many fun total overhaul mods for when vanilla gets boring
EU4 is the best game. CK2 is the best sandbox (followed by CK3). HOI4 isn't in the same tier but it's still fun and has a significnatly lower time investment and it still lets you dive deep into stat shit (problem is most of the time it's all irrelvent and basic obvious meta wins). Vic3 is a mess. Vic2 is a functional mess. Imperator is a joke. Stellaris is like HOI but even worse, I still like it though.
>looking forward to Millenia to get my fix of 4X
>it's another beta released as a full game with all the features sold as DLC
I swear if their Sims game is the same
>spec intrigue
>plot to kidnap owner of land
> declare war as soon as you get the dialog box to finalize the kidnapping
>press OK
>instantly win war and land
Here you go bro, the easiest way to paint the map in your color.
It entirely depends on how much you engage with them. If you pay attention and want to learn you'll be "competent" by like 50-100 hours, EU4 & the older generation might be more like 100-150, but if you just blankly stare at the screen you'll only start to pick things up by like the 1000th hour.
CK3 is very easy to figure out. Start as a small guy, like a vassal to a powerful ruler, if you want to do the diplomacy stuff. Or as a norse guy if you wanna conquer. Starting as the norse guy in vestlandet, Harald hair-something, and conquering Norway 1 province at a time, alternating to raiding during truces, is a good way to learn that part. Then kingom war the saedish king after he unifies sweden, to take it all in one war. Or start in sweden and swear allegiance to the swedish king so he’ll leave you to conquer. Norse are pretty overpowered so it’s easymode for learning.
the newer games are very easy and simple compared to the old ones
Like a day's worth of dedication.
Mastering a particular GSG, however, takes as long as any other hobby.
>no mentions of stelaris
Jej. Can't wait for them to break the game again with the upcoming dlc.
Victoria 3 is like Stellaris but with potential now that i think about it, Stellaris never had any hope since 80% of the game is clicking through events and hoping RNG will give you the planets that you need
CK3 biggest flaw is the fact that the there are too many overpowered tools of conquest in the hands of the player, the AI could technically use those tools too but they'll never do it since they lack efficient character building strategies, as expected from a game so focused on "roleplaying"
all paradox games are overwhelming because of the sheer amount of mechanics and modifiers but they are not hard unless you have ADHD or smth
t. learned to play eu4 while drunk
Just wing it and learn as you go. Nothing matters anyway, these games are an exercise in nihilism you everything will fall apart and explode sooner or later. It's part of the game experience. Once you have a few games on your belt you can start looking for more advanced strategies to build your meme empire and post it on /gsg/
>/gsg/
Cringe, just go to /vst/
whichs mods are you using bro your game looks great
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2630437525
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2793913535
Though i personally did some edits to the map mod, didn't like how opaque the colors were