Here's my take on Johto's league. I absolutely love Johto and I don't have a problem with its design philosophy, there are just a few small things I'd tweak.
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How I'd adjust the Johto league
Here's my take on Johto's league. I absolutely love Johto and I don't have a problem with its design philosophy, there are just a few small things I'd tweak.
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>Replacing Forretress
Awful
This. Giving him another Poison type instead of something that applies pressure to anyone trying to switch out to reset Toxic’s timer is redundant.
What role does Foretress fulfill that anyone on his new team does not? Weezing knows explosion and the rest of his teams can lay down status ailments like it’s nothing. What was lost? Foretress immediately goes down to a single Fire move anyway.
> What role does Foretress fulfill that anyone on his new team does not?
not getting killed by psychic
>not getting killed by Psychic
>immediately gets assblasted by Fire-Blast, a much more common move that a wide variety of mons can learn through TM
> >immediately gets assblasted by Fire-Blast, a much more common move
not really
Spikes. Most of his team is going down to a single EQ which is a much more distributed move than Fire Blast. Forretress also fits the ninja aesthetic more than most of his team.
I don’t think Toxic Spikes is that big of a loss since his team has other methods of inflicting status ailments. Weezing and Crobat are flat out immune to Earthquake and Tentacruel can use STAB Hydro Pump to fend off Ground-types. I’d say it’s a fair trade off.
>Weezing
>immune to ground
NUgay
I disagree as having Forretress set up TS gives the others time to do more but even then I still don’t think Tentacruel fits him at all.
how can you talk about other fixes being 'disingenuous' and then give Karen a Cloyster for a haha le vegana joke
I think I am going to try to modernize the Johto League, creating both a modernized remastered take, along with modernized rematches up to gen 9.
dude just replace Miltank by some kanto cat and a fairy type lmao
Because Miltank doesn't fit Whitney thematically. Granbull makes more thematic sense and I think it would make for a more engaging boss fight anyway
>Because Miltank doesn't fit Whitney thematically.
whitney is a shitter who got to be a gym leader because she happens to have one really tough mon.
there are a lot of johto bosses that need fixing. whitney is not one of them.
sounds fine to me
>replacing Miltank
>Fearow for the first Gym
Oh this is a shitpost
Fearow with a piss poor moveset
It's manageable anon
aren't all these threads shitposts? no one actually thinks this is an issue right?
>aren't all these threads shitposts?
No
You're a moron if you unironically think any of those threads matter.
Genuine question: when fans make these redesigns, who's the intended audience? Anyone who's on this board would wipe the floor against these teams. Are you making a ROM hack for a child?
>Are you making a ROM hack for a child?
yeah pretty much. Although I was somewhat competitive-conscious when I made this redesign, like how Koga now has Tentacruel to counter his team's Ground weakness, I didn't make it with difficulty in mind. It's supposed to be about as difficult as base HGSS
Okay, that's pretty cool. Crystal Legacy takes a good shot at what you're aiming. You might want to compare against it for inspiration.
Frick no, Crystal Legacy is a pretentious heap of trash made by a braindead zoomer who hates Johto's design philosophy. I actively used Crystal Legacy as the antithesis of what NOT to do when I made this redesign
Without going full schizo, explain yourself. Seriously, don't reply with a wall of text.
Simply put, the creator of Crystal Legacy doesn't respect Johto's design philosophy. The hack contains a whole slew of changes that turn Johto into just another modern Pokemon game.
For instance, you can find a Lv.2 Larvitar in the Violet City side of Dark Cave. Larvitar, who is meant to be the final encounter in base GSC as a reward for those who are committed enough to wait it out, can now be caught before you even have a single gym badge. It's ridiculous.
Secondly, you can tell that the creator tweaked boss fights solely to satiate the whole "Johto bosses don't use Johto-mons" fiasco. I never understood this complaint to be honest; Johto was always meant to be DLC to Kanto, not the main course. I think GSC's design philosophy of sprinkling in Johto-mons in a region dominated by Kanto-mons is perfectly fine. But when you start giving the bosses Pokemon that don't fit their theme just for the sake of originality, that's a step too far. At this point the gameplay is no longer sacred and you're just making tweaks to address the non-issue that is the underutilization of Johto-mons.
There are a few other points I have, like how Lance's team was BUTCHERED because the creator couldn't process him having three Dragonites, but that's pretty much it.
how do you feel about HG/SS giving you a potential Slugma egg in Violet City Pokecenter?
I'm indifferent towards it. Slugma is a generic, throwaway shitmon, nowhere near the level of Larvitar.
Larvitar evolves late, though; I don't think that's a problem. Also, the Gym Leaders still definitely have a theme, and also a balance between Kanto and Johto Pokemon.
Honestly, I don't think you've substantiated your arguments at all. You sound really salty and jealous, actually.
>the Gym Leaders still definitely have a theme
They gave Lance, who is literally called the "dragon master" in the games, a Zapdos for no other reason than
>the heckin legendary birds don't appear at all in GSC!!!!
>I don't think you've substantiated your arguments at all
Go ahead an elaborate on that. I'd be happy to address any arguments you think fall flat
>a Zapdos for no other reason
>Final Boss
>Dragon tamer
>Zapdos = flying mythological creature
It really isn't that much of a stretch. GF is way too strict with their theming. A bunch of hacks frick up when they leave the guidelines, but not all.
anon OP is a hopeless autist but I have to say that is shitty reasoning. If anything Lugia would be a more fitting legendary bird for Lance since it has plesio featues and was considered to be Dragon-type at one point
>can find a Lv.2 Larvitar in the Violet City side of Dark Cave
Why is this a problem? It's a 1% encounter at night time and it doesn't get good until it fully evolves.
>Johto was always meant to be DLC to Kanto, not the main course.
That's completely stupid and your interpretation.
>But when you start giving the bosses Pokemon that don't fit their theme just for the sake of originality, that's a step too far.
Says the person who removes Whitney's iconic Miltank for a Granbull lol
Imagine defending THREE Dragonites that are lower leveled than their RBY counterparts. Frick off with that shit.
It would be funny if for Petrel's team, 2 of the 5 Voltorbs only knew Explosion. Let the seethe commence.
>For instance, you can find a Lv.2 Larvitar in the Violet City side of Dark Cave. Larvitar, who is meant to be the final encounter in base GSC as a reward for those who are committed enough to wait it out, can now be caught before you even have a single gym badge. It's ridiculous.
This is a good thing tho. It takes a long time to get to level 55. By the time you're 55, it's already E4 time. GSC was dumb because they saved Larvitar for the very end when you've beaten everyone and have nothing but level 20 scrubs to grind for Exp.
what is pretentious about it lmao, the fact it's completed and people played and liked it?
You wound moronic
>STILL no Misdreavus on Morty
Because Misdreavus doesn't fit Morty thematically. I'm not going to give a Johto-mon to a Johto leader on the basis that it's a Johto-mon.
It's literally a ghost you moron
>Misdreavus doesn't fit Morty
>But fricking Granbull fits Whitney
Granbull has the whole "cute but deadly" shtick going for it, just like Whitey. Like Granbull, Whitney doesn't seem too intimidating on the surface, but she packs a serious punch.
I can't make a similar argument for why it makes thematic sense for Morty to have a Misdreavus. It would be disingenuous for me to give him one just for the sake of originality.
>Like Granbull, Whitney doesn't seem too intimidating on the surface, but she packs a serious punch.
That describes Miltank, not Granbull.
True, but I argue Granbull still makes more thematic sense since it's based on a domesticated animal that young girls like Whitney are known to enjoy the company of. Miltank is just a fricking cow.
What are you talking about?
>It is actually timid and easily spooked. If attacked, it flails about to fend off its attacker.
Granbull is the opposite of Whitney. It's a pokemon that looks intimidating, but is actually a coward. Meanwhile, Miltank looks like a placid farm animal but is very strong.
>It is actually timid and easily spooked
Does this not match Whitney's finicky and fleetly demeanor? This is the same chick who storms off crying after you defeat her
>who storms off crying
She stands in place, anon.
just like cows do
explain to me how Hoothot fits Falkner (who is a falconer not an owler) Granbull fits Whitney (who likes cute Pokémon) or how Hitmonchan/lee fit Chuck (who is about brute strength) or Tentacruel fits Koga (who is a ninja)
or why Haunter and Genger are somehow more thematically appropriate for Morty than Misdreavus?
>explain why the generic evil ghosts fit him better(when he's not evil)
I beg to differ. Back in GSC, Morty had a more sinister design that fit Gengar perfectly. Not outright evil mind you, but he seemed somewhat detached and smug to a certain degree. Gengar and his smug, shit-eating grin fits, Misdreavus does not.
meant for
>somewhat detached and smug to a certain degree.
>Gengar and his smug, shit-eating grin fits, Misdreavus does not.
Misdreavus is a smug trickster, Gengar is a malicious murderer.
Even by your own logic, Misdreavus is a better fit.
Sorry, I just don't see it. I can't in good conscious give him a Misdreavus. I guarantee this wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue if Misdreavus was just another Kanto mon
care to reply to my points you fricking autist?
why not give him cloyster? that has a smug, shit-eating grin. or electrode
>explain to me how Hoothot fits Falkner
Truthfully, it doesn't. Falkner and Bugsy are the only two bosses where I designed their teams around gameplay rather than theme. With Falkner in particular, Hoothoot is meant to be the supportive member of his team who put the opponent to sleep using Hypnosis, while Fearow is more geared towards offense. I'll give you this one.
>Granbull fits Whitney (who likes cute Pokémon)
Granbull evolves from a cute Pokemon who is very popular with women. Some would even argue that Granbull itself is cute. Like I've said a million fricking times in this thread, Granbull has the "cute but deadly" shtick. It's fine if you disagree with this but I've already said enough on this.
>Hitmonchan/lee fit Chuck (who is about brute strength)
This sounds to me like an issue you should take up with GameFreak themselves. They gave Chuck a damn Primeape in the originals, which I recognized was not a good fit for him. I felt like Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee fit him because the Black Belts in his gym use them. Yeah, not a great defense here but I still think it's a slight improvement.
>Tentacruel fits Koga (who is a ninja)
Koga's theme is status conditions. Tentacruel is great at this.
>Koga's theme is status conditions
you can't be serious
Before this his line is "My intricate style with confound you!"
Stop being fricking moronic and wake up.
>Misdreavus doesn't fit Morty thematically.
Now explain why a ghost that is themed after old-timey Japanese folklore and culture doesn't fit the Gym Leader of the one of the most old-timey, most traditional towns in Johto.
Also explain why the generic evil ghosts fit him better(when he's not evil).
This, my main complaint has always been so few Johtomon getting used.
Agreed, although a lot of people forget that Gold/Silver were also "Pokémon 2", and as well as showcasing new Pokémon they also tried to showcase Pokémon from gen 1 that didn't get much exposure/didn't show up til lategame. This is why Bugsy has Scyther for example.
Falkner having Pidgey/Pidgeotto is the complete antithesis of both aims, so they should be replaced with any of the lesser Gen 1 birds
Mine's better.
Teddiursa is a better fit than Meowth
>Missing the point of Whitney by replacing Miltank
Soulless garbage
- Remove items for the E4 battles. Neither you nor the E4 can use them during battle.
- No type specialization for E4 members
- Massive stadium to make the setting fitting for the champion challenge this is supposed to be
I love how we're at the point where people just can't take any criticism for Gen 2. OP even has to say "I love Johto" otherwise the replies here would dogpile him, accusing him of being given an opinion by a Youtuber or part of a hate-campaign against Johto.
The problem isn't that he's critiquing Johto, it's that his fixes are actually terrible.
i hate johto and OP is a moron
almost good but here's the correct way of doing it:
Falkner: Spearow + Noctowl (underleveled)
Bugsy: Pineco, Ledian, Scyther
Whitney: Teddiursa, Furret, Miltank
Morty: Misdreavus, Marowak, Gengar
Chuck: Primeape, Golem, Poliwrath
Jasmine: Magneton, Skarmory, Steelix
Pryce: same as yours
Clair: same as yours
my attempt at the HGSS bosses
i really hope someone gets what i was going for with archer
I'd have to guess the Kabuto fossil from Mt. Moon. A Porygon from the Rocket Game corner, a Marowak from Lavender tower, and a Lapras from Silph Co. Each time you meet Team Rocket in RBY
spot on
saw the Fearow and stopped reading
I'll bump but your solution is terrible already
the last three gym leaders should have 5 pokemon, 4th 5th should have 4
OP here. Now that the dust has settled, I can certainly say that I made a lot of divisive changes that I didn’t think would be nearly as controversial when I initially implemented them. Though I still stand by most of the changes I made, I can definitely understand where the anons who disagree with me are coming from. Several major changes I made like Whitney ditching her Miltank and Morty still lacking Misdreavus for no reason other than “theme” is entirely subjective and it makes sense that others has creative visions that differ from mine. To be honest, I thought that other changes like Karen having a Tyranitar would be subject to the most ridicule.
Although I will say, one aspect that you guys opened my eyes to was how I should’ve never swapped out Koga’s Foretress for Weezing. Foretress definitely contributes more to his team and it also fits the ninja theme.
Even though just about everyone here collectively agrees that my changes are dogshit, I’m glad that I was able to receive objective feedback. Regardless of everything, I had a ton of fun creating this new roster.
>tyranitar to Karen, not Lance
Why
I took inspiration from Hoenn. Drake has a Salamence and Steven has a Metagross. Seeing as how Johto also has 2 pseudo legendaries, I felt like it made sense to do the same.
>Lance’s team is unchanged
Fricking schmuck.
Falkner's team composition is fine, but not the levels. Level 9 is fricking ridiculous, even for the first gym. Crank the Pidgey to level 11-12 and the Pidgeotto to 13-14 at the very least.
Bugsy's cocoons are pretty underwhelming, but an ace Scyther is fine. Metapod and Kakuna should be changed to Pineco, so the newer players get a tutorial-like battle on selfdestructing moves. Bugsy is also low-leveled, but not as much as Falkner, maybe bump his team up 2 or 3 levels instead of the 4 or 5 needed for Falkner.
Whitney's team is fine. Maybe bump her levels up by 1 or 2, but I don't think that's necessary.
Morty's team is also fine. Needing him to have Misdreavus is just a meme.
Chuck's team is pretty underwhelming, but only because his Primeape sucks ass and he only has two team members. His Primeape should have a better moveset and he should get a third member. Heracross is not used by any major trainers, so maybe that's the right call.
Jasmine's team is fine. You might argue she should get one or two evolved Magneton instead of the Magnemite but I don't think that's necessary. Adding other steel pokemon to her team (read: Skarmory and Scizor) also doesn't make sense.
Pryce's team is ass in team composition, levels and movesets. He should be at Jasmine's level at the very least. Give him a Cloyster or something.
Clair's team is also fine, but I think replacing one of the Dragonair with Gyarados was a good call.
HGSS already raises Pidgeotto to 13
> Morty's team is also fine. Needing him to have Misdreavus is just a meme
Morty’s team is garbage, not because the lack of Misdrevus but because he has only one family that his entire gym uses and even has two haunter for some reason. Misdreavus is the easy “fix” because it’s literally only other ghost he could have.
> Heracross is not used by any major trainers, so maybe that's the right call.
Chuck doesn’t need heracross but he need another Pokémon and Gen 2 only has Hitmontop and heracross but Bruno already uses Hitmontop along with the other hitmons. I’ve seen Ursaring suggested for Chuck and I think that fits.
> Jasmine's team is fine.
Her two Magnemite aren’t the worst thing in the world but it’s weird she has to exact repeats. And unlike with Fighting and ghost Gen2 has a decent amount of steel types. Though adding a rock (former speciality) or water type (lives on a beach) would be more interesting
> Clair's team is also fine, but I think replacing one of the Dragonair with Gyarados was a good call.
Gyarados fits but I personally would use preferred Lapras. Lance already has Gyarados and you fight a Gyarados at lake of rage.
>HGSS already raises Pidgeotto to 13
Fair, I wasn't aware of that.
>Morty’s team is garbage, not because the lack of Misdrevus but because he has only one family that his entire gym uses
I fail to see why that's a problem. The first gym only uses the Pidgey family, save for a single Spearow, and I think that's completely fine.
>I’ve seen Ursaring suggested for Chuck and I think that fits.
I agree, this is a fair suggestion. Either Heracross or Ursaring would make a fine addition to Chuck's team.
>Gyarados fits but I personally would use preferred Lapras.
I still think Gyarados fits Clair better. You can even find wild Magikarp surfing in the Dragon's Den. Lorelei is not present in the gen 2 games, so the only major trainer that uses Lapras is Red, but for a pokemon that is bordering on extinction, that's kind of expected in my opinion.
>so the only major trainer that uses Lapras is Red
Red and Misty. Forgot about her.
I would include alternate forms for Kanto and Johto Pokémon to give them more interesting line-ups.
Morty could use Alolan Marowak or Galarian Corsola for example.