How to make fantasy armor work with ww1 guns lore wise?

Wanted to build a world in pathfinder 1e with the modern firearms rules but struggling on keeping armor relevant…

My first plan was to make magic work like electricity and have enchantments work more efficiently on materials that were conductive, that way even studded armor could be bullet resistant with iron inserts or copper if you have the extra coin for it…

Was curious on your guys thoughts and if you had any better ideas? Also need to work on army composition since now that firearms are a thing I’ll have to figure out what to replace spearman, swordsmen, calvary ect with (or more what to replace their weapons with)

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    negative charged magnetic armor repel bullet

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just make regular armor irrelevant, embrace it. Look at Dune and have Magical armor that protects from bullets used by the noble class and have combat be extremely deadly.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Just make regular armor irrelevant, embrace it.
      But I like armor and guns

      negative charged magnetic armor repel bullet

      Kekw

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >But I like armor and guns

        Then you have to admit there isn't really a logical way to implement both in a fantasy world without using an easy fix like "magic bullet resistant armour". Maybe you could make it so that poorer soldiers in armies can't afford that armour so it's irrelevant for them, but go off of what the other anon said and make it so that only wealthy soldiers and nobles can afford it. That way it isn't irrelevant per se, but also it stops every single soldier in an army from being a bullet proof juggernaut

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Steel plate armor never stopped being effective. It was phased out during the 19th century mostly for socioeconomic reasons, not because it couldn't stop bullets. Hell, there were some specialist units in the IRL version World War One that still wore partial plate armor.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Plate by the era of ww1 was more useful to protect against shrapnel as standard issue rifles wouldve still killed them

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Option A: The correct and based option
    Heavy metal armor can protect decently against lighter bullets and out of range shots as well as shrapnel.
    >Option B: The lame and bullshit option
    "Uhhhh widespread Adamantine alloy make gun no work gud XD"

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Plate by the era of ww1 was more useful to protect against shrapnel as standard issue rifles wouldve still killed them

      Ok but what about scale or splint armor? Chainmail and studded armor

      Ring armor I can drop because I can see that not working but the other ones are useful cause I can make a 3d representation of my guards and army’s defending the towns ect

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        How far have you actually thought out your setting? Why would those levels of armor still exist in a setting with firearms and magic?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Because they’re good looking and it’s bullshit that it got phased out in real life

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >it’s bullshit that it got phased out in real life
            It's not. They sucked compared to plate, and they were totally useless against bullets.
            Also
            >studded
            Anyway it's obvious you're either shitposting or brain rotten. You don't care about the answers we give, you just want a cop out excuse to have !!fantasy!! armor with guns

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >useless against bullets.
              Chainmail was used gainst shrapnel during WW1, especially by tank crews. Also, studded leather caps.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >It's not. They sucked compared to plate, and they were totally useless against bullets.
              >tons of replies saying otherwise
              Tell me you have brain damage without telling me you have brain damage

              >Anyway it's obvious you're either shitposting or brain rotten. You don't care about the answers we give, you just want a cop out excuse to have !!fantasy!! armor with guns
              Literally said some options worked perfectly a bunch of replies ago gay

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Scale and splint are different ways to put limited amounts of the bullshit metal on it. Great to act as a lighter alternative for limited protection

        Magic Cows who have Bullshitium naturally occuring in their skin

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        How about industrialized magic? Wizard manufactures mass-enchanting standard armor so that footsoldiers have solid protection against bullets and artillery? With modern education, printing press etc. large countries can educate future wizards more efficiently and with development of magic research enchanting can become easier to learn.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          oooooo! That could also work!

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Armor is made out of Bullshitium, that stop most common calibers, but rarer Nonsensium can more easily pierce it so teams might carry limited quantities on the marksman or use it in a bayonet

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just use the Armour gives DR rather than AC varient rules, bam
    Or you can do things like make bulletproof armour, for a cost equal to masterwork half of the Armour's AC is applied against Firearm touch.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That could work… would I have to change anything visually for a masterwork piece of armor?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Just describe them in the style of looking better quality or having qualities of whatever bulletproofium you decide on, retard.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          But I’m designing the guards that’ll wear this armor

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Up to you. Personally I made it so Bulletproof armour cost the extra 150g, gave half AC against firearms (including magic enhancements if they were enchanted) but imposed a -2 ACP for being cumbersome, but let players get masterwork on top of it to somewhat mitigate that. I described it as parts of the armour being extra thick that could repel firearms.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Not sure how you could do what you're asking for within the bounds of Pathfinder.
    Maybe there's a specific, dedicated thread on the board with people very familiar with the game who could help you better.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Frankly you don't need much. A bit of magical enchantment or cool metal would work. See Ned Kelly's armor. It was a real shit job but it let him stand up to the police with contemporary firearms during a shootout until someone nailed him in the leg.

    What you REALLY need to think about is artillery. Ned Kelly's armor did just fine against guns, but an artillery shell landing next to him turns his organs into liquid whether he is wearing armor or not. So you need a reason for the massive artillery barrages of WW1 to either not be happening or be negated somehow, or make armor so worth it that the extra weight is justified even if it does nothing to protect from artillery.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Anon ned kelly's armor weighed 44kgs and it was only 6mm thick. That's like constantly fighting with your fieldpack on. You can march in it but imagine rushing to pit to pit going on prone a dozen time in one assault.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Anon ned kelly's armor weighed 44kgs and it was only 6mm thick. That's like constantly fighting with your fieldpack on. You can march in it but imagine rushing to pit to pit going on prone a dozen time in one assault.
        Yeah it was also a redneck fit made by retards, stuff like pic related defnitely saved lives even if it didn't make you invincible. My point is in a fantasy setting where you could tweak things just a bit, armor like pic related becomes a lot more viable since it was already on the cusp of being viable during the time. The issue is, like you said, weight, but also the fact that artillery is so horrifically lethal that full body plate won't help you at all.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          https://i.imgur.com/Ypwbu2m.jpg

          Wanted to build a world in pathfinder 1e with the modern firearms rules but struggling on keeping armor relevant…

          My first plan was to make magic work like electricity and have enchantments work more efficiently on materials that were conductive, that way even studded armor could be bullet resistant with iron inserts or copper if you have the extra coin for it…

          Was curious on your guys thoughts and if you had any better ideas? Also need to work on army composition since now that firearms are a thing I’ll have to figure out what to replace spearman, swordsmen, calvary ect with (or more what to replace their weapons with)

          WW1 bib's don't have the issue of weight because they were made to replicated the thickness and weight of medieval fighting harnesses. Honestly at that point i don't think anon needs to tweak anything.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Frankly you don't need much. A bit of magical enchantment or cool metal would work. See Ned Kelly's armor. It was a real shit job but it let him stand up to the police with contemporary firearms during a shootout until someone nailed him in the leg.

          What you REALLY need to think about is artillery. Ned Kelly's armor did just fine against guns, but an artillery shell landing next to him turns his organs into liquid whether he is wearing armor or not. So you need a reason for the massive artillery barrages of WW1 to either not be happening or be negated somehow, or make armor so worth it that the extra weight is justified even if it does nothing to protect from artillery.

          Haven’t really thought of artillery but I’m fine with it being able to potentially turn people into sludge

          Could even make artillery something for casters that way defending against it would also use casters and non-magical artillery would be much more deadly

          Idk I kinda passed out on nuproxen and paracetamol (I think it was paracetamol)

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >keeping armor relevant
    It was and still is anon. What the fuck do you think Kevlar is? If you want to keep a fantasy flavor to your lighter armor, there's always Mithril

    >spearmen
    Fased out in favor of rifles with bayonets

    >swordsmen, calvary
    These guys were either nobles or well paid mercs, so adjust them accordingly. Swords and horses only stopped being useful thanks to the prevalence of heavy machinery in ww2

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    what about armor made from rust monster shells that rusts metal on contact and minimizes its penetration?

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    As has been mentioned, things like breastplates were still fairly useful in WW1 against shrapnel, as well as potentially helping against small-arms fire from a distance. It was mostly a matter of weight, cost, and diminishing returns, where kitting out every soldier in a bunch of extra armor would have been very expensive and would only have done so much to increase their chances of survival while slowing them down even more.
    If you've got a more fantastical setting, it becomes even easier to justify. A material like mithral alone could solve the issue of weight if not the issue of cost, and magic can help resolve it in a number of ways, where it could be easier to make armor, or a breastplate might actually be able to shrug off a round from a rifle or machine-gun.

    Machine-guns are probably the biggest game-changers, as they let a relatively small number of soldiers hold a position against a large number of enemies very easily.
    I would note there was still some cavalry use in WW1, and in terms of other classical roles you might look into pike & shot era tactics for an idea of how guns and melee weaponry can mix. The introduction of better armor that can take a bullet might be enough to sustain that dynamic for longer, but it's difficult to say for certain.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      bump

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Just basic weapons were devastating. During the American Civil War, despite the popular image of formations marching at each other in the Napoleonic style, many places of the war resembled the trenches of WW1. All because rifled muskets and the Minié ball made even regular arms much deadlier at range. Barbed wire (not yet invented for ACW) was also insanely effective and feared by the troops.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        that shit has zero to do with ww1 trenches besides being in the ground

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Ok maybe it might help a bit if I describe my mega autistic creative method

    I’m using vidya game humankind to make the map, the reason why is twofold

    1. It generates its own heightmap, territories and everything in between

    2. I can use the debug tools to layout all the different factions in this world… basically each era has cultures you can pick, which will modify the look of your empire

    Im also using games like mordhau and (especially) bannerlord to research armor designs… however I can’t find anything on Ethiopian or Argentinian armor

    I could use conquistador armor for Argentinian culture but I’d need lots of examples cause lastly I put all this through sketchup to create the fantasy troops and guards of the setting I’m working on

    Ok back to passing out

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Could maybe get away with giving the Ethiopians Mongolian armor…

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Wait no got a better idea

      Give the Ethiopians Arabic armor
      Give the Persians Mongolian armor

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Plate armor never stopped working. What do you think the helmets given to soldiers were made off until relatively recently? Magic? What do you think goes in the "plate inserts" in contemporary military armor? Armor in the battlefield has always been a cost/logistics issue, not an effectiveness one. There is always shit like adamantite and whatever.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >What do you think goes in the "plate inserts" in contemporary military armor?
      Ceramic plates. Running steel plates against anything bigger than a pistol is asking to get spalling in your guts. And even pistols will have the bullet explode when it hits a steel plate, sending a solid piece of copper straight into your chin.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There's official PF splat for Bolchevik revolution, that's pretty close to WW1, so maybe look at that for inspiration.

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Swordsmen and spearmen and cavalry co-existed with modern guns until the end of WWII.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      In some regions primary use of melee weapons over existing firearms is a thing even today.

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You're playing Pathfinder not some kind of historically-rooted mudslogger system, it really doesn't bear needing to explain it beyond "yes all the armor works on bullets too, and some of it is specially enchanted vs firearms"

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I didn't say shrapnel, I said bullets. And chainmail is extremely labour intensive compared to a thin metal plate to also protect against shrapnel. It's only advantage is that it's flexible so useful for the neck, armpits and similar areas where you want movement

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >I didn't say shrapnel, I said bullets.
    I know, and I brought up shrapnel because you dismissed those armour types purely because they didn't stop bullets. But bullets are not the only threat out there. Explosives kill far more soldiers than bullets. Hell, for most of history helmets haven't stopped bullets either, but we made good use of them regardless.
    >And chainmail is extremely labour(?) intensive compared to a thin metal plate

    >It's only advantage is that it's flexible so useful for the neck, armpits and similar areas where you want movement.
    It also breathes and you can see through it (face protection).

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Well In Lore, WWI was prettey like a medieval fight (The start of the war especially), since in 1914 still were trying the best tatics for trench warfare, like giving Granadiers Bulletproof shields and a bag of granades and said to staart running against the trenches

    While like the Arditi (pic related) not everyuone but were the first shock troopers, armed with the first machinguns and a medieval armour so the bullets could ricochet, they were armed even with clubs, a lots of granades and knives.
    While level of game I saw a 3rd party classes for the warrrior "The trench fighter" just add the possibility to use Gun powder and shoot over full cover, a bullshit ability that I exploited against my players in a steampunk campaign I created, I created teh "Living/moving trench" they were fighters set in 2 rows, one brought the tower shield that then used the round action to set it on the ground and give full cover, while the other live used granaed and transported MGs and set it up on the wall, the Players couldn't shoot for the rule of full cover while the fighters were gunning them down(they won the encounter with the alchemist who threw a lot of granades).
    I would make it work like the 1914 WW1 or like I set it, just put like knights on mechanical horses that can breathe fire/steam to burn the enemy, or that the priest I gave them the "Grey talent"(I don't remember the name, the one that can make the priest use both negative and healing on weapons) and made cleric that shoot healing bullets to friends, magicians still work good in the setting, monks I made them in my campaign the equivalent of "special forces" like soldiers who know Martial arts and ways to kill a men with a spoon, stuff like that.
    the Knights were cowboys (all archetype musketeer) where they dueled with rappier and pistols. Well isnpire yourself by watching some steampunk stuff.

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