>a community built around No True Scotsman-ing RPG players continues to fracture into ever-smaller subgroups as they compete for the title of Truest RPG Player.
Like pottery.
You can change around the catagory names, but yah, in terms of proximity to the core its more or less right.
sorry anon, but any amount of seeing what something is made out of will amount to what you call "no true scotsman-ing". And if someone keeps their Highlands out of my Galloways, I'm peaches with that.
You can change around the catagory names, but yah, in terms of proximity to the core its more or less right.
sorry anon, but any amount of seeing what something is made out of will amount to what you call "no true scotsman-ing". And if someone keeps their Highlands out of my Galloways, I'm peaches with that.
but did not those hipsters win? Nobody that I know who plays DCC for example claims it to be OSR. If you ask the DCC facebook page which is populated by a tight knit group of boomers who all know the author personally, the closest you get is someone saying "OSR adjacent" and even that is only because they hate 5e and see OSR as an ally. The people who I know who do play "OSR games" are hipsters who only play OSE and dont consider things like Knave, LOTFP, or DCC OSR at all.
but did not those hipsters win? Nobody that I know who plays DCC for example claims it to be OSR. If you ask the DCC facebook page which is populated by a tight knit group of boomers who all know the author personally, the closest you get is someone saying "OSR adjacent" and even that is only because they hate 5e and see OSR as an ally. The people who I know who do play "OSR games" are hipsters who only play OSE and dont consider things like Knave, LOTFP, or DCC OSR at all.
Sorry Im dumb. I misread what you meant about hipsters. i think we are saying the same thing. that fundamentally it is about backwards compatibility to pursue how the game was "meant to be played", from a mechanical view first.
Yes.
Now get the frick out of my hobby if you don’t want to gatekeep people who have already proven indiscriminate in taste and milquetoast in their expectations.
OSR has nothing to do with being rules light, that's a meme pushed by homosexuals trying to appropriate the label for their lazy cashgrab artbooks. By repeating their marketing lies you are directly contributing to their bullshit.
It's very bland to almost useless generalization. To me at least, putting Original, Basic, AD&D1, AD&D2 in the same circle is very misleading to those who have never played it.
for the love of God stop putting DCC in OSR. it doesnt even try to replicate old mechanics. except for thief skills which is arguably the worst part of DCC.
DCC was and still is sold as OSR in a way. They use a lot of artists of old, mention things like Appendix N and AD&D 1e as it's influence and has several mentions on TSR and "the old way of playing". They try their best to sound as an old game going as far as >pic related.
yeah but it was 2011 when they wrote that. OSR wasnt the monolith it is now. its got old school aesthetics but OSR as we know it now is specifically about recreating the gameplay in the old style. simple characters collecting gold to move into high level domain building. DCC does not follow old school mechanics, it tries to recreate the aesthetics found in Conan, Wierd Tales in general, Jack Vance, and Fritz Leiber. Its very specifically about aesthetics, not mechanics. Which is why I find it baffling that every class is really unique relative to other d20 class equivalents, except for the thief. Im not surprised it gets lumped in with OSR but the clowns that claim sovereignty over that ivory tower dont want it, and the DCC player community doesnt want that label either. if you wish to think of it like this: "DCC is what boomers remember AD&D being about, OSR is what millennials think it was about". Im not trying to be argumentative or condescending its just that Ive played a ton of DCC and the OSR connection really isn't there in so far as OSR today is a strict concept that adheres to old school mechanics.
The actual boomers play real TSR and OSR stuff at NTRPGCon though.
DCC was more played by babby's first RPG player who just wanted cool totally "metal" aesthetic without having to listen to metal or hang around actual metalheads.
Last I heard they were dropping that crowd to try and pander to whiny convention SJWs and CR trannies for sales by rewriting the core book to be gender neutral and putting Michael "white people bad" Curtis on it. (as if they're going to overlook them selling JG stuff with Bledsaw's extremely /misc/-tier son)
t. have a bunch of their old product from before they became a bunch of c**ts.
7 months ago
Anonymous
My dad (actual boomer) doesn't play any tabletop games any more.
As an old guy I tend to play games that are relatively recent because I don't enjoy the taste of shit.
Basically the reason to use it is the freeform class system. There are three main classes the Strong, the Deft, and the Wise. With each of these you can pair a profession which is made up by the player with GM's permission (knight, merchant, necromancer, pirate are all examples of professions). The Deft and the Wise both allow the player to come up with their own special abilities/spells based on simple phrases. If as a Deft I am attuned to my master's sword and my pet squirrel, once per session you can do the almost impossible with them in whatever way is appropriate. For the Wise they can make a miracle wording like "summon flame" or something more specific like "fireball." To cast their miracles the Wise has to pay an amount of HP set by the GM depending on how powerful the desired effect is, how close it is to the miracle wording, and if it matches their profession. It needs a bit of GM work but there are example HP ranges for example spells in the book and using precedent you will quickly establish how much HP costs are for the stuff your players want to do. This means no spell lists, and what is more, creative spell wordings can allow for multiple use cases (though a vague wording means higher HP costs on your miracles). Also to prevent shenanigans the Wise can't heal from magic sources or potions or stuff like that.
Skills work in a similarly freeform way, you associate your profession and various "groups" your character is a part of with a stat. When rolling for that stat you get a bonus if your group/profession is relevant to the situation.
The base system is d20 roll under stat which is a bit swingy but functional. Could easily be swapped for a different resolution system if you want. Other than those things it is 90% just OD&D.
Lastly I have the 3rd Edition, 4th was just released with minor changes but I like the book layout less. Every version of Whitehack does have some confusing wordings as the author is Scandinavian.
>Ever played an OSR style game before friend? Rulings not rules.
That's not what Rulings not rules means, except in Fake OSR.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I don't really care what you consider "fake OSR." You are the exact kind of autist who takes OP pic seriously.
You must be reminded of the three tenets of gameplay, I see.
Daddy may I is not strength.
Daddy may I is not skill.
Daddy may I is not luck.
Because it doesn't meet the criteria for any of these three things, it isn't game design. Anything built upon Daddy may I isn't a game.
You seem to have some daddy issues. When I explained the rules I did indicate that there are several strategic considerations when casting a spell. You need to creatively apply your wording considering what you have paid in HP before so as not to kill your wizard. You only have a few spells so picking your wording is very important. Often you may have to roll a die to determine how much life you will lose which introduces risk/reward. And lastly you need to creatively apply your spell wordings to the problems you face like in any other D&D game. I would argue there is as much strategy on Whitehack's spellcasting if not more than in standard OD&D, it is just mediated a bit through the GM assigning HP costs which I will point out again there are guidelines and instructions in the book for how much different spells cost. So not really daddy may I at all. If you're so scared of the GM making a ruling that isn't 100% defined in the rules I question why you are playing RPG's at all.
7 months ago
Anonymous
You seem to have some reading issues; reread the three tenets of gameplay.
I play RPGs because I like games. I get enough people controlling my life from taxation and needing a job, I don't need to have some shithead making inconsistent rulings to say what my fictional characters can and can't do, "guidelines" be damned.
Play games instead of putting yourself under the yoke.
You must be reminded of the three tenets of gameplay, I see.
Daddy may I is not strength.
Daddy may I is not skill.
Daddy may I is not luck.
Because it doesn't meet the criteria for any of these three things, it isn't game design. Anything built upon Daddy may I isn't a game.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Anything built upon Daddy may I isn't a game.
So B/X isn't a game? Good to know, Ricky morono.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, BX is a game designed for small children. AD&D is the real game.
That picture is a deliberate meme to troll the OSR thread, a great example is 2e being included in the inmost circle which OSR grogs hate. The entire concept of ascending AC being "pseudo-OSR" is also intentional bait.
>The entire concept of ascending AC being "pseudo-OSR" is also intentional bait.
yeah, ascending ac is actually true old-school and hated only by ignorant secondaries
>deliberate meme to troll the OSR thread
it was from a simpler time when being silly for fun and jokes wasn't taken seriously by idiots or offended tourists.
Sorry that you're too one tracked in your thinking to comprehend obvious implications. A game published in 1975 either isn't OSR at all because like OD&D and Basic it predates OSR by three decades or it is OSR because it has the OSR features. Either way, T&T is not false OSR.
OSR in general is a joke
I have played BECMI, AD&D1e, LotFP, OSE, OD&D, DCC, Basic Fantasy, MorkBorg, Knave, AS&SH.
I can assure you that they are all a waste of paper, because you only need one, and it doesn't matter which. As they are all exactly the same game. Sure with different art of the same monsters, and different codified house rules and tables, but, effectively the same. cause If you are actually playing these games at the table you end up house ruling everything anyway and will pick and choose which tables to use or make your own. also stat blocks are so similar that modules for any of them can be converted on the fly. and the balance doesn't matter at all anyway, because in all the games I played in or dm'ed PC's had an average life span of about 1.8 sessions. There were 4 hour sessions I would lose 3 characters. it literally didn't matter what I was playing or if I even named them.
In summation, after playing almost exclusively OSR material for 4 years I have concluded that it is both high homosexualry and the same recycled boring wargame
>a community built around No True Scotsman-ing RPG players continues to fracture into ever-smaller subgroups as they compete for the title of Truest RPG Player.
Like pottery.
You can change around the catagory names, but yah, in terms of proximity to the core its more or less right.
sorry anon, but any amount of seeing what something is made out of will amount to what you call "no true scotsman-ing". And if someone keeps their Highlands out of my Galloways, I'm peaches with that.
You don't fricking play.
Pretending to play pretend isn't playing.
/thread
Cope
I read the image and it looks like it's just categorizing what "true OSR" is, not about being the truest RPG player.
Because the OSR was built around preserving the play of TSR D&D, in large party by making new material that was compatible with TSR D&D.
It's not primarily about being rules light, or a philosophy as the later artpunk hipsters would contend.
but did not those hipsters win? Nobody that I know who plays DCC for example claims it to be OSR. If you ask the DCC facebook page which is populated by a tight knit group of boomers who all know the author personally, the closest you get is someone saying "OSR adjacent" and even that is only because they hate 5e and see OSR as an ally. The people who I know who do play "OSR games" are hipsters who only play OSE and dont consider things like Knave, LOTFP, or DCC OSR at all.
Sorry Im dumb. I misread what you meant about hipsters. i think we are saying the same thing. that fundamentally it is about backwards compatibility to pursue how the game was "meant to be played", from a mechanical view first.
Shh, don't tell the cultists they're cultists. It doesn't work with religion and it won't work here.
Yes.
Now get the frick out of my hobby if you don’t want to gatekeep people who have already proven indiscriminate in taste and milquetoast in their expectations.
I assume it's a joke since most of the games in "Fake OSR" are nothing whatever to do with OSR.
OSR just means I like "rules light" games but don't want to lose gamer cred by saying it
OSR has nothing to do with being rules light, that's a meme pushed by homosexuals trying to appropriate the label for their lazy cashgrab artbooks. By repeating their marketing lies you are directly contributing to their bullshit.
It's very bland to almost useless generalization. To me at least, putting Original, Basic, AD&D1, AD&D2 in the same circle is very misleading to those who have never played it.
The fact that GURPS Dungeon Fantasy and D&D5e are on this list at all is funny.
I use AD&D 1E monster manuals with my homebrew D&D knockoff system.
for the love of God stop putting DCC in OSR. it doesnt even try to replicate old mechanics. except for thief skills which is arguably the worst part of DCC.
That's why it's in false-osr, blind-bones.
>false, implying deception.
It and 5e under are not advertised as OSR. You can see the words but do you understand what they mean?
DCC was and still is sold as OSR in a way. They use a lot of artists of old, mention things like Appendix N and AD&D 1e as it's influence and has several mentions on TSR and "the old way of playing". They try their best to sound as an old game going as far as >pic related.
yeah but it was 2011 when they wrote that. OSR wasnt the monolith it is now. its got old school aesthetics but OSR as we know it now is specifically about recreating the gameplay in the old style. simple characters collecting gold to move into high level domain building. DCC does not follow old school mechanics, it tries to recreate the aesthetics found in Conan, Wierd Tales in general, Jack Vance, and Fritz Leiber. Its very specifically about aesthetics, not mechanics. Which is why I find it baffling that every class is really unique relative to other d20 class equivalents, except for the thief. Im not surprised it gets lumped in with OSR but the clowns that claim sovereignty over that ivory tower dont want it, and the DCC player community doesnt want that label either. if you wish to think of it like this: "DCC is what boomers remember AD&D being about, OSR is what millennials think it was about". Im not trying to be argumentative or condescending its just that Ive played a ton of DCC and the OSR connection really isn't there in so far as OSR today is a strict concept that adheres to old school mechanics.
The actual boomers play real TSR and OSR stuff at NTRPGCon though.
DCC was more played by babby's first RPG player who just wanted cool totally "metal" aesthetic without having to listen to metal or hang around actual metalheads.
Last I heard they were dropping that crowd to try and pander to whiny convention SJWs and CR trannies for sales by rewriting the core book to be gender neutral and putting Michael "white people bad" Curtis on it. (as if they're going to overlook them selling JG stuff with Bledsaw's extremely /misc/-tier son)
t. have a bunch of their old product from before they became a bunch of c**ts.
My dad (actual boomer) doesn't play any tabletop games any more.
As an old guy I tend to play games that are relatively recent because I don't enjoy the taste of shit.
Only replying because Whitehack is mentioned, my D&D clone of choice. Nice to see it mentioned.
The OP pic is bait btw.
whitepill me on on whitehack
Basically the reason to use it is the freeform class system. There are three main classes the Strong, the Deft, and the Wise. With each of these you can pair a profession which is made up by the player with GM's permission (knight, merchant, necromancer, pirate are all examples of professions). The Deft and the Wise both allow the player to come up with their own special abilities/spells based on simple phrases. If as a Deft I am attuned to my master's sword and my pet squirrel, once per session you can do the almost impossible with them in whatever way is appropriate. For the Wise they can make a miracle wording like "summon flame" or something more specific like "fireball." To cast their miracles the Wise has to pay an amount of HP set by the GM depending on how powerful the desired effect is, how close it is to the miracle wording, and if it matches their profession. It needs a bit of GM work but there are example HP ranges for example spells in the book and using precedent you will quickly establish how much HP costs are for the stuff your players want to do. This means no spell lists, and what is more, creative spell wordings can allow for multiple use cases (though a vague wording means higher HP costs on your miracles). Also to prevent shenanigans the Wise can't heal from magic sources or potions or stuff like that.
Skills work in a similarly freeform way, you associate your profession and various "groups" your character is a part of with a stat. When rolling for that stat you get a bonus if your group/profession is relevant to the situation.
The base system is d20 roll under stat which is a bit swingy but functional. Could easily be swapped for a different resolution system if you want. Other than those things it is 90% just OD&D.
Lastly I have the 3rd Edition, 4th was just released with minor changes but I like the book layout less. Every version of Whitehack does have some confusing wordings as the author is Scandinavian.
Whitehack is a mess
I ran a 14 month campaign in it, guess I didn't realize how messy it was.
Ever played an OSR style game before friend? Rulings not rules.
Damn my pic cut off the name of my favorite island Gnomehome. We had a great adventure there.
>Ever played an OSR style game before friend? Rulings not rules.
That's not what Rulings not rules means, except in Fake OSR.
I don't really care what you consider "fake OSR." You are the exact kind of autist who takes OP pic seriously.
You seem to have some daddy issues. When I explained the rules I did indicate that there are several strategic considerations when casting a spell. You need to creatively apply your wording considering what you have paid in HP before so as not to kill your wizard. You only have a few spells so picking your wording is very important. Often you may have to roll a die to determine how much life you will lose which introduces risk/reward. And lastly you need to creatively apply your spell wordings to the problems you face like in any other D&D game. I would argue there is as much strategy on Whitehack's spellcasting if not more than in standard OD&D, it is just mediated a bit through the GM assigning HP costs which I will point out again there are guidelines and instructions in the book for how much different spells cost. So not really daddy may I at all. If you're so scared of the GM making a ruling that isn't 100% defined in the rules I question why you are playing RPG's at all.
You seem to have some reading issues; reread the three tenets of gameplay.
I play RPGs because I like games. I get enough people controlling my life from taxation and needing a job, I don't need to have some shithead making inconsistent rulings to say what my fictional characters can and can't do, "guidelines" be damned.
Play games instead of putting yourself under the yoke.
You must be reminded of the three tenets of gameplay, I see.
Daddy may I is not strength.
Daddy may I is not skill.
Daddy may I is not luck.
Because it doesn't meet the criteria for any of these three things, it isn't game design. Anything built upon Daddy may I isn't a game.
>Anything built upon Daddy may I isn't a game.
So B/X isn't a game? Good to know, Ricky morono.
Yes, BX is a game designed for small children. AD&D is the real game.
Neither of those are games.
>So B/X isn't a game
That's right.
>Rulings not rules.
Just pull some shit out of your ass yeah.
"Daddy may I" isn't game design.
Probably why they call it a “hack” and not it’s own game then.
Cepheus, T&T, and The Fantasy Trip are less “False OSR” and more “Parallel Universe OSR”.
That picture is a deliberate meme to troll the OSR thread, a great example is 2e being included in the inmost circle which OSR grogs hate. The entire concept of ascending AC being "pseudo-OSR" is also intentional bait.
>The entire concept of ascending AC being "pseudo-OSR" is also intentional bait.
yeah, ascending ac is actually true old-school and hated only by ignorant secondaries
>deliberate meme to troll the OSR thread
it was from a simpler time when being silly for fun and jokes wasn't taken seriously by idiots or offended tourists.
Tunnels and Trolls was the 2nd ever published rpg but it's in the false OSR zone. That alone tells you the diagram is drawn as a joke or bait.
>t. Another moron who thinks OSR means old
(EPT was the second ever published RPG)
Sorry that you're too one tracked in your thinking to comprehend obvious implications. A game published in 1975 either isn't OSR at all because like OD&D and Basic it predates OSR by three decades or it is OSR because it has the OSR features. Either way, T&T is not false OSR.
It isn't OSR because it doesn't have the OSR features. But you knew that.
So, uh, what separates all of these?
OSR in general is a joke
I have played BECMI, AD&D1e, LotFP, OSE, OD&D, DCC, Basic Fantasy, MorkBorg, Knave, AS&SH.
I can assure you that they are all a waste of paper, because you only need one, and it doesn't matter which. As they are all exactly the same game. Sure with different art of the same monsters, and different codified house rules and tables, but, effectively the same. cause If you are actually playing these games at the table you end up house ruling everything anyway and will pick and choose which tables to use or make your own. also stat blocks are so similar that modules for any of them can be converted on the fly. and the balance doesn't matter at all anyway, because in all the games I played in or dm'ed PC's had an average life span of about 1.8 sessions. There were 4 hour sessions I would lose 3 characters. it literally didn't matter what I was playing or if I even named them.
In summation, after playing almost exclusively OSR material for 4 years I have concluded that it is both high homosexualry and the same recycled boring wargame
OSRgays are the highest concentration of nogames in the entire hobby.
OSR isn't a slang for when a game is based on an old game. It's for games that are based on TSR-era D&D.
OSR
TSR
It's that simple.
>mythras
>WOD
>GURPS
Why are they even on the chart. I assume this is a troll post