How would you design the perfect elemental system for vidya?
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How would you design the perfect elemental system for vidya? Pic unrelated
How would you design the perfect elemental system for vidya?
Pic unrelated
It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
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It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
Fire, Water, Grass
Fire includes lightning
Water includes Ice
Grass includes Earth
Fire beats Grass, Grass beats Water and Water beats Fire
Elements are Anima. Darkness beats Anima, Anima beats Holy, Holy beats Darkness.
But lightning doesn't beat earth so that makes no sense
How come poison is never in the elemental system? Because they are hard to be seen physically? Or is it because they're "unnatural" or the "evil" type?
Poison isn't an element. The closest element would be Earth or anything that includes plants.
Poison is usually treated as an affliction and it would fit within Grass
poison is just the overabundance of something
call it the gluttony element
I think one factor that should be implemented for the perfect system is that each monster/unit/ect has its own weaknesses and strengths rather than them each being assigned an element and they all are connected in a web or chain. It would make the fights more engaging since you wouldn't know how to kill them instantly when you first see the icon and let you show more personality giving you the freedom to make certain things weak or strong against various damage based on biology or something.
It's a status effect not really a kind of damage.
But cold and hot are literally opposites.
One thing that happens a lot is too many things become immune to poison by nature, so they don't fit well in a balanced rock paper scissors style system.
>How come poison is never in the elemental system?
Do we not count Pokemon in this discussion?
The popular game with an elemental system ever, Pokemon, had poison as a type
Grass and water shouldnt do dmg, should only heal or support
>Grass and water shouldnt do dmg, should only heal or support
Pure water BTFO's every other element.
>Melts ice
>puts out fire
>doesn't conduct electricity
>drowns plants
>smashes rocks
>
most op element in the universe
Ok, grandia-ass lookin motherfricker
21:50 has a lot of promise
Silver beats darkness
Darkness beats Gold
Gold beats silver
Laser kills all of them but cant be used as often
How many elements does a gun combine?
Depends a bit if you want a each type affects each type in x way, have only elements in attacks and each enemy having a resistance and weakness table.
And on the type of game, I don't think there's a perfect system per se but probably one that fits x game. Simple 4 elements can be fun as well as pokemon's 16 elements.
Only pierce or slash in Castlevania if it's a normal gun.
You also kinda have it in Castlevania but it's mainly a status element like stone and curse. Still I think most games did damage calculations depending on if the enemy was strong, neutral or weak to it, and if weak it also inflicted status.
With Earth and Water you can go either way, Water can dissolve Earth but Earth can also absorb Water.
You can really justify a lot of things depending on what you want.
FFXI perfected it 21 years ago
oops wrong one
> Normal
Where do you think you are?
>mfw water and ice are different elements
>h2o = coldness
If water and ice are different elements then we need lava and fire/heat elements too
Ice is just water as a solid ya pinhead. Water can also be a gas too.
ice element doesn't necessarily mean water ice, it just represents making things colder
why isn't it merged with fire then? There's no reason to split temperature/entropy control into two discrete elements.
why is dps and healer different roles then they both increase or decrease number
moron.
it almost always does though
No, stop with this bullshit cope, ice element in every fricking medium is just plain ice. That's why it's represented with ice symbols, it's usually white with blue tints of some sort, etc.
Saying ice in vidya is "coldness" instead of "H2O" is like saying fire is heat instead of actual fire that burns things and spreas in a plasma state.
Obviously ice is considered the "cold" element but it's still called "ice" because cold is more seen as an adjective than a noun you dense buffoon.
If devs really treated like ice as just solid water then how would it be different from just chucking rocks you moron
if ice is just cold how is it different from wind, when wind makes things colder
which games feature the wind element more for its cooling effect rather than its capability to blow things away?
fire emblem puts all the blizzard spells under wind magic
diablo 2 makes all the druid wind spells do cold damage
you didn't answer my question btw
>mfw fire and ice are different elements
>mfw I have no face
Only include elements that actually do something other than the three physical damage types. So basically fire, ice, lightning, acid and necrotic. Maybe something also that counts for sonic and explosive forces and other pressure waves.
Something like Kirby 64 I guess.
>Grass
lame element name. Naruto had it right. Call it wood.
>water and ice are different elements
The chinese perfected it eons ago.
>metal creates water
>elements insult each other
wut
>fire insults water
>water destroys fire
Talk shit get hit.
>water insults earth
>earth supposedly destroys water
>in reality water destroys (floods) earth, destroys wood, destroys metal, destroys fire and destroys the country that came up with such moronic system
>"water is totally stronger you guys"
>has earth outnumber 7 to 3 on the global scale, can't do any meaningful damage
>gets sucked when it tries, flees back into the ocean like a sissy
The things on top of the earth are a different story, but earth mogs water.
>water can't do any meaningful damage to earth
>literally flooded most of it and to this day coastal cities continue sinking slowly
>the deadliest natural disasters happen when water turns into big rain (hurricane)
>an entire continent and part of other two are covered by cold water just because
>water can permakill any form of life and even earth itself by simply leaving or turning into steam that blocks the sun (see the desert and venus)
>there's water literally inside you right now
>to this day coastal cities continue sinking slowly
They're not, though.
>anything pertaining to life
Again, those aren't earth, they're just stuff on top of the earth. It's not earth's concern if they can't take it.
MORE ELEMENTS MORE ELEMENTS MORE ELEMENTS
(this may or may not be serious)
MORE
>chaos can't touch food
But why?
>No biotic type
We have a normal type for animals, a bug type for a specific type of animals, a dragon type for a specific type of animals, a flying type for a specific type of animals, a water type for fish, and a grass type for all plants. We need a biotic type for fungus and non-animal non-plant organisms like bacteria and microbes. Add a food type and it can be strong against that. Food can be weak to normal too but strong against fairy and fighting types.
Persona 1's damage types are not that complex if you actually played the game.
This is the type chart I use for my shitty monster catching game on RPG maker.
I tried to make it fair and balanced, with a clearly overpowered type and a clearly shit type, just like in pokemon.
homie wtf kind of element is "worship"
How are light and dark elements? Light as an element is just worship of the holy and dark as an element is worship of the unholy.
ignoring the fact that "light" and "dark" are also stupid elements, light is something that can be measured in an area
what the frick does "Worship" cast? am i getting pep-talked by my Worship Mage, also known as a cleric with domains that are usually more specific than just 'worship'?
How is entropy chaotic and void is order?
Entropy follows strick physical rules while void is a made up concept of nothingness
"Entropy is a scientific concept that is most commonly associated with a state of disorder, randomness, or uncertainty."
Meanwhile the void is pure nothing, cold and unmoving nothingness.
Worship can call upon the power of higher powers, create tools of ritual/worship, and derive power from the aesthetics of worship.
"worship" sounds like a way to access the elements rather than an element in and of itself, and it would need a better name
having a priest-type call on specific deities for specific buffs would be neat tho
>thunder
Some people still don’t know the difference between lightning and thunder?
Sorry the wall of text, but I like this too much!
The spark of Lightning ignites when it strikes, and thus Fire is born.
The heat of Fire renders to ash all that it touches, and thus earth is born.
The density of Earth shuns Sun and harbors cold, and thus Ice is born.
The armor of Ice melts away, and thus water is born.
The moistness of Water mists and rises, and thus Wind is born.
The gusts and sighs of Wind gather the clouds, and thus Lightning is born.
The three conquests:
Earth grounds Lightning.
Water erodes Earth.
Lightning boils Water.
The three submissions:
Fire is extinguished by Wind.
Ice is melted by Fire.
Wind is obstructed by Ice.
The six elements are manifest in all things great and small, and their polarity deriveth from the Astral heavens above and the Umbral depths below.
Good post
Fire/water/air/earth system where you can combine the 4 basic elements or specialize in them to unlock newer ones.
>start with basic attacks like throwing rocks (earth), pushing wind (air), throwing flames (fire), water whips
>eventually do stronger attacks like small earthquakes, tornadoes, flamethrowers, floods, etc
>specializing in one element unlocks things like light/lightning (fire), sand/metal control (earth), flying (air) and ice attacks (water)
>combining elements results in stuff like lava control (fire+earth), smoke (fire+air), steam(fire+water), hail storms (air+water), hurricanes (S-tier air+water), tsunamis (earth+water), mud (earth+water), etc
>obtaining a perfect balance between the 4 elements unlocks control over plant-based life, which in turn unlocks things like poison attacks/immunity (healing herbs) and plant growth manipulation
It's daring but I would like to see elements work more like Pokemon's type chart instead of a perfectly balanced triangle. It's just weird and immersion breaking seeing the grass element be just as strong as blasting people with lightning and fire.
how's pokemon balance in practice? Like how does steel or dragon just get to have more resistances and less weaknesses than other types meanwhile if you're ice you just get fricked i guess.
I don't remember it being too bad, double types also help and in the case of ice type the mons tend to be glass-cannons that tend to do decent damage to almost everything and frick dragon(aka the frick your initial type type).
Shit gets a bit ridiculous when you have 4x weakness tho, but it's fun.
Would be fun to see but I guess making any x beat y type of thing would be hard and instead they interact differently? Will probably have shit balancing tho.
Is this an damage multiplying system or related to some other game mechanics.
As long as the monsters or moves balance a bit out it would be fine by me, or if not make it have something other types don't just like how in pokemon ice was the only way to get super effective against dragon aside from dragon.Or laugh at wind users if you want it's your game after all
Reminder that Ice is the least common Pokemon type. There are more Pokemon based on mythological creatures of two different varieties than there are Pokemon based on cold water. Frick GF.
It's a bad defensive type that isn't kept relevent by STAB or immunity to hail.
GF knows whatever it makes with it will be trash so they are reluctant. Jap kids luv them some dragons and fightan mons.
ENTER
pretty cool but plasma, quantum and cyber all feel similar
I get cyber vs plasma but what does quantum do?
>Bio deals with plants, animals, and life-force. Examples of Bio abilities include spawning small alien companions as combat support, creating large biological structures to block off enemies, and firing fungal blobs that detonate upon impact and leave a long-lasting residue of harmful acid.
>Cyber deals with the power of technology. Examples of Cyber abilities include summoning armed robot drones to hold off opponents, electrocuting enemies with electric weapons, firing volleys of deadly bullets and firing off timed mines, laying traps, and delivering blasts of overwhelming electrical energy.
>Necro deals with death, darkness, fear, souls, and twisting reality. Examples of Necro abilities include; paralyzing foes with frightening visions, shifting into a ghost-like form that ranged projectiles pass straight through, damaging enemies by passing through them, siphoning away enemies’ life-force, absorbing extra power from dead enemies’ souls, throwing dark-matter bombs that cancel out the very atoms of foes, and casting enemies away into a dark limbo for eternity. Necro characters usually have a Purple coloration, and tend to have a skeletal or bug-like appearance. If they have hands, they tend to be long, thin, and clawed.
>Plasma deals with fire, lava, magma and electricity. Examples of Plasma abilities include setting enemies on fire, firing bursts of lethal electroplasma, creating walls of fire to defend against foes, and morphing into bolts of 'living lightning' that can travel at breakneck speed and harm opponents that get in the way.
>Quantum deals with the manipulation of space and time. Examples of Quantum abilities include teleportation, speeding up and slowing down time, and generating gravity fields that knock back or pull in opponents.Quantum characters tend to be simian and have fish-like qualities.
you missed anemo
It needs holy and dark elements
Has any RPG ever actually used this?
Another Eden makes things at least a little interesting with Crystal type.
Why would you use anything but crystal?
Looks like one of those designs where you get a resistance type that fricks over early game common elements but absolutely eats shit against rarer types.
It's basically magic damage in DaS.
Because crystal doesn't deal weakness damage to most things. Although the chart isn't strictly accurate to begin with, it's really just a guideline and bosses can resist whatever the frick they feel like.
>Holy (lightning)
Can chain hit, heals a fraction of the damage it does
>Fire
AoE damage, slight damage over time
>Ice
Slows enemies, does large amounts of damage to low-health enemies (shatter)
>Dark (poison)
Damage over time, stacks damage
Ice and Fire are opposed types, as are Dark and Holy. Take extra damage from opposed type attacks, e.g. ice-type enemies take extra damage from fire attacks, and vice versa. Putting ranks into skills of a type increases the cost of its opposed type.
Non-opposed types can have combo attacks, e.g. Sacred Flame (holy/fire), Tentacles of the Deep (ice/dark), Burning Rot (fire/dark), etc.
KISS (keep it simple, stupid)
Fire > Nature > Earth > Lightning > Water > Fire
And for the "moral" elements:
Light > Dark > Fae > Light
>Hahaha I'm an ice themed boss
>What's that? You specced Ice?
>NICE! Enjoy taking 2 hours to kill me!
>Oh what NOOO YOU'VE RESPECTED AND OR CHANGED TO A FIRE WEAPON!? NOW I'LL DIE IN LIKE 3 HITS NOOOO!
Elemental damage sounds cool on paper but design wise it just amounts to this bullshit.
Depends a bit on the game but it's another thing to balance, so it can balance other stuff in the game more(unlikely) or make the game twice as unbalanced(likely), but breaking games is also fun.
Does this really exist? Would be hilarious to see.
The only time it works is if you do what DaS did and make each damage type have a strength advantage based on ease of access and at what point in the game you can obtain it.
Even with that though, it really does amount to "Makes X part easier".
>Does this really exist?
Elona (and Elona+) has different messages depending on what you kill an enemy with. I believe that’s what happens when you kill an enemy with "Nerve" type damage.
Is blue lightning stronger than yellow?
blue lightning is stronger but yellow lightning is faster
Blue > white > purple
Yes because it's way hotter.
>game has a "mental damage" element
>if an enemy takes fatal damage from it, they fricking kill themselves
White damage in Lobotomy Corp, reduces sanity when inflicted by enemies and increases sanity when inflicted by allies. Don't necessarily kill themselves, the state they enter on losing all their sanity depends on their stats. They'll either attack friendlies, kill themselves, run around screaming and dealing white damage to friendlies, or try to let things out of containment.
All elemental systems boil down to simple color coded actions, see color push the anti-color button.
Combat abilities should be balanced around range, shape and other interesting physical qualities and effects.
Here have a template
>Each Weapon has an element
Why?
Nah, Ganker already solved this long ago
>lightning hammer
doesn't even fit at all
slow thing with a fast thing? just because thor is pretty popular doesn't mean that fits
The debate was about things that fit just as much as picking the least unreasonable choice. What would you offer as an alternative? And in that case, where would you place the element that you're switching?
I think spear would be the best fit for lightning due to speed and piercing (along with how rail/coil system can be used to launch things) but then water would be left alone and water simply isn't offensive enough to synergize with other weapons (perhaps bow for utility?).
Simplest change would be to swap the weapons with ice so ice can now utilize its solidity for blunt force while lightning can split things with axe.
Thor you fool.
>elements are intrinsically woven as the metaphysical structure of the world instead of just being mere gameplay parameters
elements are cooler when their attributes are reflected directly in the gameplay rather than just being a rock-paper-scissors chart of X beats Y
the first example that comes to mind first is how Dicey Dungeons deals with it
like, the game is all based around dice that abstractly represent your attacks
ice attacks can freeze your dice and make them all 1s
fire attacks can burn them and make you take damage for using them
etc.
there are a couple enemies that simply take extra damage from certain elemental attacks, but it's on more of a thematically appropriate case by case basis
Every element interacts with a game's systems and all abilities either feed into, pull from, or are based on variables related to the system.
>Heat system that increases temporarily based on standard actions being used per turn, with each skill adding 1 Heat
>Using Fire-element or Fire-related skills uniformly add an additional 1 Heat when being used
>Overheat is an attack that deals damage based on the present Heat
>Flare consumes all of the present Heat to do an attack with scaled boosts to stats based on how much Heat was consumed
>Ignite requires a small amount of Heat to be used and is a generally hard-hitting attack, compared to Detonate, which requires a large amount of Heat to be consumed for a significantly stronger attack
>Flame Blade enchants your weapon to do damage that is increased based on the Heat checked on cast
>Inferno deals a huge amount of damage while costing a lot of heat resources, and generates ambient Heat to be used for future skills (or alternatively to cause issues for Element-users who rely on low-Heat strategies)
>Trailing Blast consumes heat for a follow-up explosion on non-magical attacks to add more opportunities to deal damage
And so-on. Apply some framework of applications to each other system in the game, such as Items Used, Environment, Character Alignment, so-on, and you'll have an elemental system where you can mechanically feel out their values rather than putting Blue against Red.