how would you feel if non-Legends games replaced Freeze with Frostbite and Sleep with Drowsy?
how would you feel if non-Legends games replaced Freeze with Frostbite and Sleep with Drowsy?
how would you feel if non-Legends games replaced Freeze with Frostbite and Sleep with Drowsy?
That one guy who's against Freeze being replaced and shit up entire threads would be absolutely buckbroken so frick him, I'm for it.
I'm sure he'll miss the 3 times in his life the status effect actually happened. I've literally found more shinies in gen 3 than I've seen Freeze
For him to truly suffer Ice should get at least one new resistance. Maybe Ground so for some malding (and so that a certain Pokemon loses a weakness which will cause even more malding).
>I've literally found more shinies in gen 3 than I've seen Freeze
no you haven't.
>354 moves in gen 3
>5 of them have a chance to freeze
>10% chance
Check my math, that's about a 1/7000 chance to encounter freeze, not far from the 1/8192 chance to encounter a shiny. This all goes out the window once you are the user of the move or if you hunt for a shiny. I'm NTA but I definitely have more shinies in gen 3 than I have seen Freeze.
Glaceon should get Snow Warning
No, but Articuno should
>how would you feel if they nerfed ice types and homogenized the game for no reason?
Ice types would be buffed assuming they make Frostbite versions of burn moves like Will-o-wisp and Lava Plume (they obviously will)
Having really busted but unreliable status will always be worse than a reliable status that’s not as busted but still useful.
>Ice types would be buffed assuming they make these moves that are completely useless for ice types at the cost of having one of their unique extremely useful tools removed
>SpA burns that they would be immune to would be completely useless for Ice types
>A 8% chance (freeze chance and not thawing chance) to make a Pokemon unable to move is useful
Play the game.
1. Freeze is only a wincon for Gen 1 and a fringe amount of scenarios in later gens.
2. Frostbite also halves the SpA of the opponent, which would be massively useful to inflict on Special Attackers and for Special Attacking Ice types to be immune to.
3. Freeze is a shitty “wincon” because it entirely relies on luck on top of other shit needing to go its way. You can’t freeze Pokemon if Sun is up. They can thaw out with moves like Scald or Sacred Fire. They can be healed with Heal Bell, Natural Cure, etc. and Pokemon can just naturally thaw out including turn one. Of Sleep, Paralysis, and Freeze, Freeze is by far the worst because of this shit.
4. If le chip damage is bad because of how Ice is supposed to play, why is fishing for 10% chances of Freeze fine?
And you know, Ice moves aren’t fricking exclusive to Ice types you dumb pieces of shit. Water types, Normal types, Psychic types, etc can learn Ice Beam.
You’d both know this if you played the game instead of looking up your asses.
>assuming
Assuming makes an ass out of u and me.
>Hmmmm what would be better
>An extremely rare status condition that has to be rare because of its broken effect that you can’t really plan for unless you use dickish strategies
or
>A reasonable status condition so it can be put on more reliable moves and that dramatically changes how games are played
I genuinely don’t get RNGgays obsession with keeping Pokemon as glorified slot machine sim.
>Hmmmm what would be better
>a useful wincon that allows you to effectively OHKO the opponent 10% of the time
or
>a status condition that’s completely fricking useless since slowly damaging the opponent is the complete opposite of ice type’s playstyle
Even if your mass exaggeration was true, the second one, 100% of the time.
10% chance to OHKO is terrible game design. Literal nothing is better than the first scenario you've present.
>10% chance to OHKO is terrible game design
No it isn’t.
>A 8% chance (freeze chance and not thawing chance) to make a Pokemon unable to move is useful
More useful than a useless status condition that doesn’t help the type at all, yeah.
> Play the game
You first.
>1. Freeze is only a wincon when it’s a wincon
Glad you agree.
> 2. Frostbite also halves the SpA of the opponent
Why would I want to do this instead of just KOing the opponent? You know, the thing the type is actually useful for?
> Freeze is a shitty “wincon” because it entirely relies on luck
If luck wins me games then it’s not shitty.
>Freeze is by far the worst
Freeze is literally the best status condition in the game.
> why is fishing for 10% chances of Freeze fine?
Because it instantly stops the opponent from being a threat.
> And you know, Ice moves aren’t fricking exclusive to Ice types you dumb pieces of shit
And?
you are the worst poster on this board and i genuinely want you to die so bad, log off dude oh my god
>nerf
Freeze is something you can literally never rely on anyway
It's like relying on ohko moves
>Freeze is something you can literally never rely on anyway
It sure is weird that I’ve won games by relying on it then
> It's like relying on ohko moves
It sure is weird that I’ve won games by relying on 1HKO moves then
was sleep not in Legends? What did Drowsy do?
50% chance to not attack instead of 100%
it still sucks but it sucks less
You also take more damage and the affected Pokemon is more likely to to not move while it's snowing
I think they should add both of them into the game but not remove freeze or sleep. Moves that can cause freeze or sleep as a secondary effect now have a lower chance of inducing freeze or sleep but a higher chance of inducing frostbite and drowsy. Moves like Sing remains unchanged. 50% chance of drowsy or frostbite after sleep/freeze wears off.
Paralysis, burn and confusion should also have weaker alternates. Stunned reduces speed by 1/2 but there's no chance of missing a turn, light burn only does damage and dazed is confusion without self damage. As before, moves that directly induce status are unchanged, only moves that induce status secondarily will have a change.
based fricking trips. I've never thought of it how you describe it. It's essentially Poison vs. Badly Poisoned but for all statuses
Semicounterpoint: how about having sleep work:
>used Spore on healthy mon
>target is Drowsy
>used Spore on Drowsy mon
>target is asleep
It's a nerf to sleep, but could also make it so that all sleep moves have 100% accuracy against mons that are drowsy.
Yawn would also be 100% drowsy that turns into sleep the end of the next turn.
Frostbite is just a better status to have instead of frozen.
sleep is an iconic jrpg status and should not be replaced but honestly replacing freeze with an ice burn would be at least interesting
Freeze/petrify is also iconic. They should just make a new status to nerf special attackers.
>Fear
Cuts SpA in half and has the same immobilization chance as Paralysis.
Dark types are immune to it
Petrify should be a rock type status move that works like freeze but increases the Pokemon defenses by x2.
Dark types are immune to it.
Rather Fighting types.
sleep in pokemon doesn't even work like it does in any other jrpg
pokemon's status effects have been fricked up and schizo since the start and I don't get how they've remained that way the entire time
Frostbite is fine.
Drowsy sucks still.
What they should do with Sleep is auto-wake up if you take damage from an attack.
You're still set up fodder, so it's not completely useless, but a slower mon can counter attack if they fail to nab the KO.
You're also telling me that my pokemon wouldn't even open their eyes after eating a frickin Flamethrower or Close Combat?
>What they should do with Sleep is auto-wake up if you take damage from an attack.
this is a horrible idea and would make sleep completely useless
>Dragon Dances in front of your sitting duck in singles
>Just focus fires your partner in doubles
>"Useless"
Maybe play the games before coming here.
YOU play the game homosexual, you're very clearly someone assmad about getting put to sleep and not someone who uses the strategy for yourself, or else you'd realize how unreliable it is.
>Enters thread discussing changes to sleep/freeze
>Gets mad when people discuss changes to sleep/freeze
classic.
>say something moronic
>get called a moron
actually you called him a homosexual, moron
>YOU play the game homosexual
>you’re very clearly someone assmad about getting put to sleep
Wait, so does anon play the game or not?
If they want to be cheeky about it, they could do something like Poisoned/Badly Poisoned, with Sleep/Deep Sleep.
Rest causes Deep Sleep, which is like sleep now, while things like Spore, Sleep Powder, Sing, etc. causes the new type of sleep.
Thought:
>Sleep ends if you take damage from an attack, but ONLY if it was caused by Rest
>Rest is changed so that instead of healing all your HP at once it heals over time
this is a horrible idea and would make rest completely useless
Alright, how about making it a chance instead? The chance of being forced to wake up is the percentage of your remaining HP that you took in damage.
More like it makes Sleep something the user actually has to play around instead of going
>ME AMOONGUS
>ME USE SPORE
like some rock thrower. There's a good reason why sleep gets nerfed every generation and it continues to be the strongest status.
Sleep isn't the strongest status. It's a worse version of Freeze. But because it's a worse version of Freeze, Game Freak can hand out soporific moves like candy.
would this buff something like Snorlax too much?
Rest would probably have to be reworked in some way. It's already hard-coded to work different than regular sleep anyway (set turns rather than random), so it'd probably have to keep it's 2 turn wait time.
How about this - if a Pokemon loses more than 50% of its HP from an attack (including Stealth Rocks) it wakes up immediately. That way you don't buff Rest too much and add in some complexity that allows for you to do cool things like whittle down an opponent and then go in for the killshot instead of just clicking your strongest move and waking them up.
every status move is just lose HP/speed every turn
also remove burn heals, antidotes, paralyze heals and awakenings
I'd think all 4 statuses should be in the games, reworked to have Freeze and Sleep be the Toxic to Frostbite and Drowsy's Poison.
both are shit
play the game instead of begging for pointless changes
how does drowsy work? is it just paralysis but no speed nerf?
Drowsy causes
1. 33% chance to skip your turn
2. You take 50% more damage from attacks
3. If snow is in effect, the chance to skip your turn is increased to 50%
4. Spark, Volt Tackle, and Wild Charge instantly cure drowsiness.
>WAAAAAH WHY DOES GAME FREAK KEEP MAKING ICE TYPES DEFENSIVE
>WAAAAH WHY DOESN’T GAME FREAK REPLACE THIS STATUS THAT REWARDS OFFENSIVE ICE TYPES WITH ONE THAT’S LITERALLY ONLY USEFUL FOR DEFENSIVE POKEMON
campaignshitters, not even once.
Freeze is literally only useful for defensive Pokemon because it requires you to fish for the effect to happen.
Frostbite would be actually useful for offensive Pokemon as it lets you chip defensive Pokemon.
It’s really not that hard to understand, moronkun. Play the game.
>the status condition that’s less likely to be effective the longer you let the opponent sit there with it rewards defensive pokemon
>chipping defensive pokemon when they can almost always heal themselves is more useful than instantly removing them
you’re not very smart, are you, campaignshitter?
>>the status condition that’s less likely to be effective the longer you let the opponent sit there with it rewards defensive pokemon
You do know Ting-Lu uses Fissure and gets to do so because it’s really defensive right?
The chance to freeze an opponent is 10% in most cases. You’d need to use Ice Beam 6-7 times and only then would you have a ~50% to Freeze.
And of course, the Pokemon that can do that shit the most effectively are bulky Water types.
defensive pokemon when they can almost always heal themselves is more useful than instantly removing them
Yeah.
Use Will-o-wisp on a defensive Pokemon and every hit you do effectively does more damage. If you deal 35% each hit, burn means that 35% is 35% + 6%
That shit builds up eventually forcing them to heal every turn. It’s why Scald is universally better than Surf.
And like you said moronkun, Freezing eventually thaws and those Defensive Pokemon are more likely to thaw in a game than Offensive Pokemon.
> You do know Ting-Lu uses Fissure and gets to do so because it’s really defensive right?
You know what else uses Fissure? Excadrill. Which isn’t defensive at all. Because having a wincon against Pokemon you can’t KO otherwise is better than sitting there doing nothing like a moron. And Ting Lu isn’t even a defensive Pokemon. It’s a tanky Pokemon. There’s a difference, campaignshitter.
>You’d need to use Ice Beam 6-7 times
Which is likely to happen against passive as frick defensive Pokemon that sit there and do nothing while they let you attack them multiple times. Freeze is a direct counter to defensive Pokemon, making it a useful tool for offensive Pokemon. Your dogshit status condition is garbage for offensive Pokemon and only benefits defensive Pokemon, which Ice is fricking terrible at. When was the last time you saw a Darmanitan or Chi-Yu use Will-o-wisp?
> Use Will-o-wisp on a defensive Pokemon and every hit you do effectively does more damage
Slightly more damage doesn’t matter when they can heal.
> It’s why Scald is universally better than Surf
Scald is universally better than Surf because if you want an offensive water move you just use Hydro Pump instead, dumbass.
> Freezing eventually thaws and those Defensive Pokemon are more likely to thaw
No, because removing them while they’re frozen and can’t heal is easy.
Actually... yawngay moved over to /trash/
Finally found his home
Reminder that only this guy uses the term "campaignshitter" and he doesn't believe a single thing he posts
Always remember that yawntard tries to accuse its betters of liking some """campaign""" because it was outed as too cowardly and too incompetent for competitive play. Like the israelite it is, it now wants to pretend to be good at some meme format, conveniently with no one to play with, but you can see here how any """strategy""" it tries to come up with is a surefire way to lose, no matter the format. It's a textbook example of the israelite crying out, and like every other israelite, it's only goal in life is to subvert and sabotage communities.
>hurrr let’s just make a special version of every physical thing
Please never design video games, holy shit.
>frick yeah let's just make a special version of the incredibly useful nerf to physical attackers
Please design our future games, holy FUARK
>no you shouldn't rely on instantly removing the Toxapex by using a 1HKO move, you should have just slowly attacked it while it heals back its HP and cripples you instead
>no you shouldn't rely on instantly removing the Toxapex by freezing it, you should use my dogshit status condition that does nothing but add a Sp. Atk debuff the Toxapex utterly doesn't care about and some chip damage it can just heal from, this totally doesn't make this offensively focused type worse at doing its job
>I'm good at the game btw, that's why I think Cynthia is hard and XY is too easy even for Pokemon
What happens in every few games
>Sheer Cold hits
What happens in the vast majority of games
>Miss
>Toxapex used Toxic
>Take 1/16th health
>Miss
>Toxapex used Knock Off
>Down 3/16th Health + Knock Off damage
>Toxapex used Baneful Bunker
>Sheer Cold hits the Baneful Bunker
>Down to 6/16th HP + Knock Off Damage
>Miss
>Toxapex used Scald
>Alolan Ninetales fainted from Scald + Knock Off + all that Toxic damage
>Toxapex may also be healthier too from leftovers/black sludge healing, which would not have happened if Toxapex was inflicted with Frostbite
There's a 34% chance of missing Sheer Cold three times in a row. So no, that won't happen in the vast majority of the games. 66% of the time you'll beat the Toxapex while without Sheer Cold 100% of the time you'll accomplish nothing like a moron.
Instantly shutting down the opponent isn't an extremely specific circumstance you moron.
>Honestly replacing freeze with frostbite feels like a buff
Yeah, probably because you're a moron who never actually plays PvP. Frostbite benefits defensive Pokemon the same way Will-O-Wisp benefits defensive Pokemon. Ice isn't a defensive type. How in the absolute frick would it be a buff?
>There's a 34% chance of missing Sheer Cold three times in a row
It hits 3rd time. It hits when Toxapex protects.
>Yeah, probably because you're a moron who never actually plays PvP. Frostbite benefits defensive Pokemon the same way Will-O-Wisp benefits defensive Pokemon. Ice isn't a defensive type. How in the absolute frick would it be a buff?
See
>It hits when Toxapex protects
It also hits when Toxapex doesn't protect.
>See: two cases where Freeze is useful and Frostbite would be absolutely fricking useless
You're not very smart, are you?
>singleshit
You don't play the game
>Hmmmm I wonder what is better
>Using Ice Punch Weavile hoping that you Freeze a defensive Pokemon before they cripple you with scald, thunder wave, knock off, etc.
>Using Ice Beam Vaporeon using its excellent bulk and healing to fish for Freezes over multiple uses of the move Ice Beam, on top if Vaporeon’s water typing giving it an advantage against anti-freeze strategies
using scald on vaporeon to cripple pysical attacks and not fishing for a freeze before you get koed
also using any other bulky water over vaporeon because vaporeon sucks ass
freeze does not happen enough for it to be a good strategy anon
>vaporeon
There is like dozens of bulky waters in Pokemon and I just used Vaporeon ( as an example.
The point being that if you want something frozen, it’s better to use a bulky water type with Ice Beam than glass cannons like Weavile.
>nerf ice types by replacing freeze with frostbite
>buff them by adding a resist or something
wow
the game is now much better
Honestly replacing freeze with frostbite feels like a buff overall. Right now its just a shittier sleep that procs so rarely I legit haven't seen it happen to me or the opponent in years.
When you get it yeah its great but its so inconsistent that if feels goofy to make it part of your game plan.
Meanwhile frostbite indirectly gives ice type special attackers an extra boon since they're immune, you see it sticking way more often and I can see them giving it a will o wisp / spore equivalent.
Snow should just have 10% chance to give all non ice types frostbite every turn. GLORY TO ICE TYPES
I’d say it’s a buff only because I expect gamefreak to actually implement frostbite Wow or frostbite lava plume.
Apon further examination there is about 50/50 chance gamefreak does that instead of leaving frostbite on 10% chance, which would technically be a nerf, but I’d prefer it over Freeze any day.
I agree that freeze as it is now is stupid, but I don't like the thought of special attackers just being different physical attackers.
>I need freeze to stay because [EXTREMELY ESPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCE THAT GETS ME HARD]
Truly a case study in obsession
All major status effects now cause chip damage, stack once with itself and have a secondary effect
Chip damage can no longer KO a Pokemon, only direct attacks can
Poison prevents healing
Freeze/Frostbite/whatever doubles PP usage, stacks with Pressure
Sleep/drowsy/whatever reduces Def/SDef
Add in another that lowers SAtk, or just make Poison do that
I literally just skip every post with greentext
Drowsy was great for one thing - The fast that Drowsied opponent takes more damage. This is great.
Frostbite is ok, but IMO burn should do more damage, while frostbite should slow opponents.
Paralys should NOT cut speed. Just have 1/4 chance to attack, thats enough.
>IMO burn should do more damage
They nerfed its damage in gen 7 because it halved the opponent's attack while also dealing as much damage as poison
>Paralys should NOT cut speed. Just have 1/4 chance to attack, thats enough.
The main reason people use paralysis is because it cuts speed. If you're going to remove it then you'd have to heavily increase the chance of not moving in order to not make thunderwave/glare/stun spore joke moves.
I'd rather see Freeze redesigned so it always breaks on direct damage, and any hit on a frozen Pokemon is a critical hit. It gives more counterplay, as you could switch the frozen Pokemon out, then back in on a resisted hit, or you could self target with a weak attack in doubles.
Anything that'd make it not just a shitter sleep would be nice.
>Sleeping Pokemon wake up when hit with a contact or sound move
>Damage dealt to frozen Pokemon is halved
I fixed them.
It's almost like the glass cannon type needs the stats to back it up and not a dozen special conditions to make it not glass
Why do people want a special version of Burn? There is more physical attackers, they have more access to a SHIT ton of boosting moves, and there are guts users. Why nerf special attackers?
>Why do people want a special version of Burn?
Because campaignshitters have an extremely poor understanding of the game and think physical and special are meant to be equal. They’re the same morons who think every type should have exactly the same number of weaknesses and resistances. They have no understanding of how basic game design works.
It’s because Freeze currently is just a shit mechanic and replacing it with Frostbite seems like the most logical step.
There shouldn’t be 0 RNG, shit like Fire Blast would be too hard to balance otherwise, but some of the older RNG mechanics should change to be more modest and less frustrating.
>th-there should still be RNG but freeze should go because it makes me assblasted when I lose to it!
The only RNG mechanics that should stay are the RNG mechanics that are basically needed (speed ties, Roar, stuff like that) or mechanics that otherwise would be too hard to balance without them (High BP low accuracy moves like Fire Blast).
Freeze doesn’t fit either and should get the axe. No likes RNG mechanics besides little timmies who need them as crutches in order to win.
Because not even Blissey can reliably wall the modern special attackers these days.
It was better when most special attackers had calm mind as a boosting move at best, so the fat pink blobs can keep up the pace.But now, we got madmons like Blood Ursaluna and Chi-Yu that can two shot them out of the gate in most circumstances.
>BM Ursaluna
>Chi-yu'
That's not the fault of SP. Attackers, that's the fault of Tera abusers.
Physical attackers have to deal with:
>Burn
>Static
>Flame Body
>Effect Spore
>Rough Skin
>Iron Barbs
>Rocky Helmet
>Intimidate
>Dondozo
>Skarmory
>Corviknight
Special attackers have to deal with:
>Blissey
>Chansey
>Florges
>Awww reliable Frostbite. I wanted unreliable Freeze.
>”Frostbite can help offensive Pokemon”
>Explain how
>”Hex, nullifying leftovers, constant chip damage pressure, and allowing offensive Pokemon more oppritunities to do what they want”
>SHUT UP CAMPAIGNSHITTER!
>Hex, nullifying leftovers, constant chip damage pressure,
Completely fricking useless for ice types since the playstyle of ice types revolves around completely nullifying pokemon and removing them quickly before they take too much damage.
>allowing offensive Pokemon more oppritunities to do what they want
freeze does this drastically better.
Don't forget that many offensive Pokemon can switch in on Burned targets already.
>252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 252-297 (89.6 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
vs
>252 Atk burned Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 126-148 (44.8 - 52.6%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO
Weavile couldn't switch in on Lando-T before it was burned, but now it can. With Frostbite, the same would apply. Your Weavile can now switch in on a Walking Wake that has been Frostbitten and finish it off with a Triple Axel.
Cool. How do I click the Frostbite button on my Ice type before I send out my Ice type so I can send out my Ice type safely?
using frostbite will o wisp with your ghost type earlier in the match
Oh…so it doesn’t actually buff Ice types and it’s just a moronic pointless change that nerfs special attackers for no good reason? Good to know.
It actually does buff Ice types since Ice types are immune to the status. You can safely switch your Lapras/A-Ninetales/Frosmoth/Vanilluxe/etc in on an Ice Beam or other Frostbite-inducing move without fear of getting your Special Attack cut in half. Same reason why you can switch in Entei or Incineroar or Ogerpon-H or etc in on a Will-o-Wisp or Flamethrower and not fear getting your Attack cut in half.
> It actually does buff Ice types since Ice types are immune to the status
They already are immune to the status because Game Freak isn’t moronic and your shitty status condition doesn’t exist in the game.
>crippling physical attackers with burn is fine
>but doing the same to special attackers with frostbite is haram
Special attackers could use a nerf, their only obstacle is bullshit like Blissey. They don't need to worry about effects from contact moves or getting cucked by intimidate.
> Special attackers could use a nerf,
No they couldn’t.
> their only obstacle is bullshit like Blissey
And Snarl
And Assault Vest
And having weaker shittier moves than physical attackers across the board
Too bad you’re too busy parroting other morons instead of actually playing the game, so you don’t know this.
>No they couldn’t.
Yes they could. Special Attacks are impossible to punish currently. The worst thing you can do is switch in your Blissey/Chansey for free.
>Snarl
Useless in Singles, the real Pokemon format.
>Assault Vest
Useless on a majority of Pokemon. Its only use case is on a predominantly offensive Pokemon that has enough Speed and offensive pressure to afford giving up an item slot for more defense.
>And having weaker shittier moves than physical attackers across the board
Strongest physical move with no drawbacks: Earthquake (100 base power)
Strongest special move with no drawbacks: Boomburst (140 base power)
> Yes they could. Special Attacks are impossible to punish currently
Snarl punishes them. Using Assault Vest punishes them. Using Light Screen punishes them. Investing in Sp. Def punishes them. Parting Shot punishes them. Using sand with a Rock-type punishes them. Spirit Break punishes them. Holy frick you are moronic.
> Useless in Singles
Woah does the game crash if you use it in singles?
> Useless on a majority of Pokemon
Woah does the game crash if you use Assault Vest on a Pokemon?
> Strongest physical move with no drawbacks: Earthquake (100 base power)
>Strongest special move with no drawbacks: Boomburst (140 base power)
Cool. Now compare the number of Pokemon that get Earthquake against the number of Pokemon that get Boomburst.
>Snarl punishes them
There's Breaking Swipe for Physical attackers. Also neither count in real Pokemon (Singles).
> Using Light Screen punishes them.
Reflect also exists.
>Investing in Sp. Def punishes them
That doesn't punish them just like investing in Defense doesn't punish physical attackers.
>Parting Shot punishes them
This also punishes Physical attackers.
>Using sand with a Rock-type punishes them
No one does this because Rock types have such dogshit SpD already that they often get KO'd through the SpD boost anyways. Oh, and there aren't any good Rock types anyways.
>Woah does the game crash if you use it in singles?
No, but no one is going to use such a dogshit attack in Singles just like no one uses Aerial Ace or Feint Attack or Swift.
>Woah does the game crash if you use Assault Vest on a Pokemon?
No, but it's useless on a majority of Pokemon. People actually use Assault Vest on Klutz Lopunny to Trick it onto non-offensive Pokemon thus crippling them for the rest of the game.
>There's Breaking Swipe for Physical attackers
And Snarl for special attackers.
>Reflect also exists.
Light Screen also exists.
>That doesn't punish them just like investing in Defense doesn't punish physical attackers.
Yes it does.
>This also punishes Physical attackers.
It also punishes special attackers.
>No one does this
Everyone who uses Tyranitar does.
>but no one is going to use such a dogshit attack in Singles
According to who? Did a False Swipe Gaming video tell you that?
>No, but it's useless on a majority of Pokemon.
According to who? Did a False Swipe Gaming video tell you that?
>Hating on False Swipe Gaming
I accept your concession.
moronkun genuinely doesn’t play the game. He doesn’t realize that there are plenty of high power special moves like Water Spout and Draco Meteor exists.
For sure.
>Non-signature Special moves with more 130 or higher base power
Hyper Beam
Blast Burn
Frenzy Plant
Hydro Cannon
Draco Meteor
Leaf Storm
Overheat
Water Spout
Eruption
Venoshock (on a poisoned target)
Hex (on a statused target)
Steel Beam
>Non-signature Physical moves with more 130 or higher base power
Giga Impact
High Jump Kick
Focus Punch
Head Smash
Explosion
Self Destruct
Sky Attack
Last Resort
V-Create (I'm giving Physical this since Rayquaza got access to it too and it won't make much of a difference anyways)
>uses 130 power because he knows he’ll instantly destroy his own point if he uses moves with 120+ power
>all the special moves become fricking trash in power the second you use them once so they average out to less power anyway
>meanwhile you can keep spamming HJK at full power with virtually no drawback for free
>uses 130 power because he knows he’ll instantly destroy his own point if he uses moves with 120+ power
I used it to truncate the list. Sure, if I cut it off at 120, Physical would be about the same as Special since that adds in all of the Double Edge clones, but that also goes out the window if you drop it to 110 since then that adds in all the Fire Blast clones (which used to be 120 bp before Gen 6).
>all the special moves become fricking trash in power the second you use them once so they average out to less power anyway
homie, half of those Physical attacks are even worse. Focus Punch doesn't work if your opponent inflicts any damage at all. Sky Attack makes you charge up a turn to use it effectively making its base power 70 instead of 140. Last Resort only works if you've used every other one of your moves already. Self Destruct and Explosion literally make your Pokemon kill themselves.
Even HJK has a drawback if your opponent has a Ghost type or Protect. You can't ever spam it because you'll lose half your health.
> but that also goes out the window if you drop it to 110 since then that adds in all the Fire Blast clones
Which are weaker and less accurate than the Double Edge clones. Therefore worse.
> Focus Punch doesn't work if your opponent inflicts any damage at all
It also stronger and keeps its power consistently instead of being immediately cut in half after being used once.
> Even HJK has a drawback if your opponent has a Ghost type or Protect.
That’s barely a drawback compared to the power being completely fricking neutered after being used once.
> but now it's just being thrown like a meaningless buzzword
Nope. It still means exactly what it means, campaignshitter.
1. Use a bulky Ice type that spreads the status
2. Use a non-Ice type that can use the Frostbite equivalent of Will-o-Wisp
3. Frostbite them on the switch so you can stay in or come back later to finish them off
> 1. Use a bulky Ice type that spreads the status
Why would I use an Ice type defensively? Are you moronic?
> 2. Use a non-Ice type that can use the Frostbite equivalent of Will-o-Wisp
Oh…so it doesn’t actually buff Ice types and it’s just a moronic pointless change that nerfs special attackers for no good reason? Good to know.
> 3. Frostbite them on the switch so you can stay in or come back later to finish them off
Why would I use an Ice type defensively? Are you moronic?
The game is already more balanced without your dogshit status condition.
>Why would I use an Ice type defensively? Are you moronic?
That's the point of bulky Pokemon. Bulky Pokemon are supposed to take hits. That's why they're bulky and not fast and frail. That's why bulky Ice-types are as much of a meme as Slow Frail Mixed Attackers. They just don't work.
>Oh…so it doesn’t actually buff Ice types and it’s just a moronic pointless change that nerfs special attackers for no good reason? Good to know.
That still buffs Ice types since only an Ice type or a Pokemon with Magic Bounce could safely switch in on the status.
> That's the point of bulky Pokemon
No, it isn’t. Glastrier is bulky but if you’re using it defensively you’re literally just using the Pokemon wrong. You campaignshitters always have this strange logic where you make up these moronic arbitrary rules based on stats. It’s so fricking funny.
> That still buffs Ice types since only an Ice type
No, it isn’t. Ice type can already safely switch into the status because your shitty fanfic balance suggestions don’t exist.
>No, it isn’t. Glastrier is bulky but if you’re using it defensively you’re literally just using the Pokemon wrong. You campaignshitters always have this strange logic where you make up these moronic arbitrary rules based on stats. It’s so fricking funny.
What is Glastrier going to outspeed with its 30 base Speed? The only relevant Pokemon with lower Speed is Ferrothorn (20). Even Snorlax has 30 base Speed.
This is why Glastrier is in PU and Spectrier is banned. If you swapped their stats around, Spectrier would probably be UU or even OU while Glastrier wouldn't get banned.
>glastrier is slow
>therefore I should waste the valuable turn I have for it using fricking frostbite instead of actually doing meaningful damage
That's actually a pretty good idea.
>Send out Glastrier on a Pokemon that can't OHKO it
>Opponent switches in their strong Special Attacker to take advantage of its weaker SpD stat
>Their Chandelure/Heatran/etc is crippled for the rest of the match
>Glastrier comes back in later and sets up Swords Dance on the switch in next time and proceeds to sweep with just Glacial Lance and Earthquake as offensive moves
It's almost like there already exists Pokemon that do this exact same thing with Will-o-Wisp...
and they're actually pretty good...
like Rotom...
>That still buffs Ice types since only an Ice type or a Pokemon with Magic Bounce could safely switch in on the status.
This.
The biggest benefit to Ice types with Frostbite is being immune to it. The moron flipping his shit over Frostbite replacing Freeze doesn’t understand that Will-o-Frost would be used by more than just Ice types, just like how Will-o-wisp is used by more than just Fire types. It would be better for Ice types than Burn is for Fire types because Special Ice types are more common than Physical Fire types.
> The biggest benefit to Ice types with Frostbite is being immune to it
They already are immune to it because the status condition doesn’t exist. All you’re doing is just nerfing Special attackers for zero reason like a moron.
> He doesn’t realize that there are plenty of high power special moves like [move that becomes garbage if you lose your HP] and [move that becomes garbage if you use it more than once]
> What is Glastrier going to outspeed with its 30 base Speed?
Damn, campaignshitter-kun, if only there was some way you could make slow Pokemon go first!
>[fanfic tiers]
Why the absolute frick should I care?
>They already are immune to it because the status condition doesn’t exist.
If you didn’t have breakfast this morning how would you feel?
>Damn, campaignshitter-kun, if only there was some way you could make slow Pokemon go first!
Trick Room is bad in Singles, and if someone is going to use Trick Room they're going to use it with Ursaluna or Conkeldurr. Sure, it's strong in Doubles, but the game isn't balanced around Doubles.
>but the game isn't balanced around Doubles
According to many it isn't balanced around singles either
That would be because the game isn't balanced period. Game Freak throws shit at the wall and sees what sticks.
>Trick Room is bad in Singles
According to who? Did a False Swipe Gaming video tell you that?
>but the game isn't balanced around Doubles
According to who? Did a False Swipe Gaming video tell you that?
>Their Chandelure/Heatran/etc is crippled for the rest of the match
You know what would also cripple their Chandelure/Heatran etc for the rest of the match? Using High Horsepower and simply removing them instead of sitting there like a moron trying to use an Ice-type defensively while it uses status moves and dies contributing nothing.
why are anons so afraid of change
They are frozen in time
why are campaignshitters so afraid of playing the game
I don't get this argument. I'm a bystander and what you are saying is making no sense. What do you mean play the game?
If you're saying "Campaign" doesn't that automatically mean they are?
Campaignshitters play the toddler campaign and then never play the game again because they’re too lazy and scared to actually play PvP. So they just sit on the side and stare at the type chart and smogon tier lists to pretend they have valid input on the game.
"Campaignshitter" refers to someone who doesn't actually play Pokemon's PvP metagame, and thus doesn't understand how battles ACTUALLY play out in the only battle environment people care about, which is against another player.
>someone who doesn't actually play Pokemon's PvP metagame
sounds based
So it’s like “Nazi” or “troony” where it has a definition but ultimately just means “people I don’t like” in 99.9% of context?
Feel like the only people who would give a shit about balancing would be PvP guys.
>the only battle environment people care about, which is against another player.
This is some massive fricking cope, holy shit.
Nobody gives a shit about PvP. Compgays are an active cancer on this franchise (along with muh forward transferability, another 0.01% of the customers) that actively prevents this game from evolving its garbage 90s combat system.
Pokemon VGC is the best RPG combat system, there's no other turn based RPG with an online VS community
Unironically play TCGs, it's the same concept except you get to play with more than 5 people, it actually has interesting mechanics beyond coinflips and it's a single game instead of shitting up seven generations of games.
People have been begging Pokemon to evolve for two decades at least, but you worthless wastes of space are a shield that can always use to continue being lazy. "What about our precious tournaments with 9k watchers" have a nice day.
>Unironically play TCGs
i would, but they keep being gay and swapping rotations to force me to buy new cards. yu-gi-oh is not the exception because they do the same shit except power creep.
i think MTG is the only game that doesn't do it by default in a certain game mode
>Whines about compgays then pushes the TCG.
This is shitposting a whole 'nother level holy cow.
>compgay has no reading comp-rehension
Figures.
You've chosen the most pathetic and least skillful thing to get good at, while actively being a stain of the franchise that makes it worse for everyone else. I mean it unironically that your life has absolutely no value and the world would be better without you.
Cry more
Bait, here's a (you).
Change implies GameFreak was wrong at any point.
Why does it have to replace them? Why can't we just have more than 4 status ailments? I'd love to get some more statuses added to the pile. Maybe Confusion and Attraction can finally get added in as statuses, too. And for that matter, why can't Pokemon be inflicted with more than one status? I feel like it would add a new level of tactics to battling.
My favourite thing about freezegay is that he’s low-key unintentionally >implying that Fire-types are defensive bc Will-o-Wisp exists
And whilst it’s true Fire is better suited as a defensive type than Ice, it’s still nowhere near a defensive type roflcoptr. Giving Ice Hail to weaken Physical and Frostbite to weaken Special would benefit it more if it was a viable defensive type but it also benefits offensive Ice types especially w/Veil to take neutral hits or get out of range of revenge kills/chip by actually making their natural bulk usable. Hail’s def buff is part of the reason Baxcalihur was unmanageable.
It’s also a buff to offensive Ice-types by giving them a new switch-in opportunity and giving you an incentive to use Ice special attackers instead of Water types with coverage lmaozedong
>six (6) resists
>two of which are Fairy and Grass, both of which are extremely valuable
>i-it’s not a good defensive type!
Thanks for once again proving you don’t actually play the game.
will-o-wisp is more of a ghost type move than a fire type move tbdesu
Wait, it's not a ghost-type move???
it’s always been a fire type move
Campaignshitters should not be allowed to post. They do NOT play the game. I, a VGCgod, have so much more authority on topics that these worms cannot even conceive of. Pathetic campaignshitters can NEVER hope to understand my brilliance and the complexity of relying on spamming ice beam, crossing my fingers, kissing my wife for good luck while she's in the middle of taking Tyrone's BBC, and hoping I get the ever-illusive but totally reliable freeze.
How many VGC battles do you play underleveled?
minecraft single player speedruns are fundamentally different than minecraft pvp, what’s your point
>how ice type works now:
>>use offensive ice type
>>use ice beam
>>it doesn't 1HKO and it doesn't freeze
to die the next turn because of Ice's half a dozen weaknesses
ftfy
Okay, here me out:
We add Frostbite and Drowsy not as replacements for Freeze and Sleep, but as additional status effects. After that we split Poison into "Poison" and "Toxic". Then we promote some volatile statuses to full status conditions (Bound, Cursed, Confused, Attracted, etc). Finally we allow a Pokemon to be inflicted with 2 status effects at a time, but specific effects can't overlap (like Sleep and Drowsy or Poison and Toxic). How much does this change the meta? Would it be better or worse, honestly?
Additional thing to potentially be angry at:
Let's break down some walls between Campaign and VGC. From now on let's make the in battle bonus effects of friendship activate during battles with other real world trainers. Like, in a VGC battle, a Pokemon might survive with 1 HP because it has maximum friendship. How much does this change the meta, again? And is this concept better or worse than the current system? Why?
I think all statuses should have a minor variant, like Poison leads into Toxic. Getting statused while already statused replaces any weaker status with the higher one.
>Singe to Burn = -1 ATK; no chip
>Shock to Paralysis = -1 SPE; no hax
>Frostbite to Freeze = -1 SpA; no chip
>Drowsy to Sleep = -1 DEF+SpD (Normal Type Statuses)
Some of the volatiles can also get a bump up.
>Dizzy to Confusion = 1/16 recoil to self and partner on all moves (Psychic Type Statuses)
>Confusion now has a 50% to incur 1/4 recoil damage to self and partner
>Crush to Infatuation = -1 ATK/SpA on target
>Infatuation now negates stat buffs and works like Unaware
>For balance purposes, Pokemon can now be gayly in love
>phys/spec split LE BAD! gays meanwhile think the special stat split is acceptable when all it did was neuter every single Pokemon for no good reason and turn good Pokemon with notable niches into shitmons that never recovered
Powercreep is bad, simple.
What fricking powercreep? The Special Stat only existed for ONE GENERATION and none of the Pokemon introduced in GSC seemed like they would've abused Special so thoroughly that it NEEDED to arbitrarily split into two.
>What fricking powercreep?
the split
How is making every Pokemon objectively worse powercreep? Isn't that the literal opposite?
The physical/special split is powercreep, the special stat split is not so it's good.
>The physical/special split is powercreep
That's not even the main problem with the split. What the split did is dumb down movesets. Since there are fewer viable alternatives, it's less rewarding to come up with unique/tricky combos.
It also dumbed down the way walls are built.
Sorry anon I enjoy my physical water types not being fricking dogshit thanks.
Yeah, the split obviously has its advantages. It makes sense from a thematic perspective, and like you said, let's more Pokemon be viable. It seems GF are being more judicious with TM compatibility, so that helps.
Anon you might need glasses or you’re dyslexic.
Yeah i agree they powercrept Dratini with Dragonite so they should remove it.
almost
>thinks bug isn't the worst type
I wonder what would happen if someone were to suggest a buff then...
someone probably would complain and say that bug must remain a dogshit type to compensate for U-turn existing
you must understand it is a part of bug types identity to be frail pivoters that gives momentum to your team and nothing else
this is the worst post I've ever seen on this site
I want to share a thread with people who obsess over cartoon character darts over you
I genuinely hate you more then gaymon voregay the guy who obsesses over people that dislike SM and every single gohgay
the world would be a better place if you died and the only person that would mourn your death is the person that has clean up your rotting carcass
I swear to god you people are not even original
>So assblasted that he made an entire schizo bingo sheet to shill his pathetic forced meme term
>an offensive pokemon can’t use a move three times in a row against a passive as frick defensive pokemon
Test
get rid of freeze
sleep can stay because it has more counters than freeze does
>moves that currently have a chance to Freeze have a 10% chance to Freeze, 50% chance to Frostbite
>Frostbite makes freezing moves gain a 75% chance to Freeze
watch some contrarian spaz still have a problem with this
>hurr lets nerf special attackers for literally no reason
still garbage
Right but then burn is 100% ok to keep in. Sure anon. Freeze is just worse sleep anyway.
>Right but then burn is 100% ok to keep in
Yes because physical and special aren’t the same fricking thing and they’re supposed to have different strengths and weaknesses.
No homosexual, by you own fricking logic, burn has no need to exist because it just nerfs physical attackers for "no reason". Why shouldn't Spec. Attackers get the same debuff from a different status as well?
>burn has no need to exist because it just nerfs physical attackers for "no reason"
Except it’s not for no reason because physical != special.
>Why shouldn't Spec. Attackers get the same debuff from a different status as well?
You're fricking stupid and arguing with you is a waste of time. It doesn't matter anyway, GF might not even implement but the fact frostbite even exists might be them just toying with the notion and seeing how it gets received by players.
It “exists” in a completely different single player focused game that isn’t meant to play anything like the PvP games.
>physical and special aren’t the same fricking thing
Elaborate.
>they’re supposed to have different strengths and weaknesses
Such as?
>Elaborate.
What is there to elaborate on? They literally aren’t the same. If they were meant to be the same they wouldn’t be two separate stats to begin with.
>Such as?
Play the game.
>What is there to elaborate on? They literally aren’t the same
So you can't explain? Ok.
>Play the game.
Oh, so you REALLY can't explain.
>vegetables != meat, they’re meant to have different nutritional strengths and weaknesses
>”HURRRR WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU CAN’T EXPLAIN HOW THEY’RE DIFFERENT!?”
play the game and learn for yourself instead of screeching for shitty changes
I hope they do change it just to spite you and I hope chansey gets a move that inflicts the status 100% of the time just to piss you off.
that honestly sounds great
we need more stall
>Heh, I'm not here to educate you sweaty
So you're not interested in discussing anything and just want to bait
>Heh, I'm not here to educate you
If campaignshitters cared about being educated they would be actually playing PvP instead of staring at smogon tier lists all day long.
>smogon out of NOWHERE
Of course they're not the same thing. Even if there was Frostbite in the game there'd still be way more things affecting Physical attackers than Special attackers. Your Special attacker doesn't fear using Grass Knot on a Pikachu and getting affected by Static :^)
> Of course they're not the same thing.
Then stop asking for moronic unnecessary balance changes.
But they're not moronic, they're ingenious. They're also not unnecessary but vital to balancing the games.
you make special attackers sound weak as frick if they can't handle being checked
this anon loves special attackers so much he thinks they suck
>drowsy
Shit. Para but worse and less consistent.
>frostbite
Absolutely. Special burn would be kinda cool
>special attackers being nerfed for no reason would be kinda cool
Yes. It is bs that special attackers get a free pass to do whatever they want
>this post was made by physical gang
>Ice types attacks (as well as ice type in general) being buffed for great reasons
Fixed your post. You can thank me later.
>status that doesn’t help the type at all
>buff
>Ice types are immune to frostbite, a type predominately ruled by special attackers (And walls lmao).
>Frostbite status means ice type attacks will just see a lot more usage, therefore ice types might ironically get a small defensive buff.
>Frostbite will replace freeze, which hasn't done anything for ice-types since gen 1.
Maybe you should start playing the games.
>Ice types are immune to frostbite, a type predominately ruled by special attackers (And walls lmao)
This isn’t a buff. It’s how the type currently is because GF is smart enough not to add a moronic status that nerfs special attackers for no reason.
status means ice type attacks will just see a lot more usage,
Giving Ice moves a WORSE status than freeze somehow means Ice moves will get used more? Huh?
>Frostbite will replace freeze, which hasn't done anything for ice-types
Automatically shutting down the opponent and winning games thanks to it doesn’t do anything for Ice types? Huh?
Freeze isn't sleep, and so rare that it's not even skill based. It's dumb fricking luck, and fricking unlucky if the pokemon melts out the same turn. It's not like in gen 1 where if it's frozen it may as well have fainted.
Also can you like, actually argue instead of saying "Nuh-uh" the whole time?
>no reason
The reason is that Special Attackers have been getting the better end of the stick for like 20 years. The last time they were nerfed was when their massive SpA wasn’t also their massive SpD as well.
>Gets Grim Neigh and Soul Heart, both being upgrades
>Competitive which is better than Defiant
>No Special Intimidate
>No Special Burn in mainline game
>Only like 2 special moves needs to worry about contact based abilities
>Moves in general have less drawbacks than physical versions
>Can even attack special walls with Psyshock
>And point about priority is null with Vacuum Wave and Thunderclap
Oh my god it's someone who actually plays the games.
>The reason is that Special Attackers have been getting the better end of the stick for like 20 years
No, they haven’t. The biggest threats in every game have consistently been physical attackers. Why the frick do you think that is?
>The last time they were nerfed was when their massive SpA wasn’t also their massive SpD as well
Interesting how you forgot Gen 6 nerfed practically every staple special move ane added Assault Vest. It’s almost as if you’re a moron who doesn’t actually play the games.
Lol, lmao even.
Lol, lmao even.
>Flutter mane top 3
Nice, thanks for proving my point.
>not top 1
>majority of top 12 are physical attackers
>despite burn existing
>despite intimidate existing
>despite “””physical attackers getting shafted for 20 years”””
Thanks for revealing yourself as a moron who doesn’t actually ever play PvP.
I'll be honest with you I can turn this argument either way, I could make the argument that Flutter mane has been taking tournaments since it came out, and that frostbite could have put a huge dent in it's winnings, or I could argue that maybe frostbite wouldn't impact the meta in a significant way and that it would be a fine idea to actually swap it out for freeze. My stance is that it would be an interesting status effect over a worse version of sleep that either steals a match or does nothing at all.
>homogenizing the game is interesting
>making ice worse is interesting
>we need to invent an entire status condition just to slightly nerf one overtuned pokemon when physical attackers are consistently better anyway
How the frick is it making ice worse you toe-sucking homosexual?
And also it wouldn't just affect flutter mane but special attackers and even mixed sets as a whole, besides, ice-types lost passive damage with hail gone, might as well move it somewhere else. Also I love how you're dancing around the fact freeze is still a shit status that's overly luck reliant.
>how the frick is giving the worst defensive type in the game a status condition that only benefits pokemon that play defensively making the type worse?
gee anon I dunno. Maybe you should try reading the thread.
>And also it wouldn't just affect flutter mane but special attackers and even mixed sets as a whole
And these need nerfs….why exactly?
>ice-types lost passive damage with hail gone
Yes because passive damage doesn’t benefit ice types and if you’re using an ice type to sit there and wait for passive damage you’re probably using the pokemon wrong.
Cause frick freeze. And frick Flutter Mane. Nuff said. It's a terrible status and this is an upgrade.
>I’M MAD BECAUSE I LOST TO IT!!!
thanks for confirming freeze is better.
How?
also keep in mind these physical attackers are specifically ones that do not give a shit about intimidate for the most part
>urshifu is the protect killer
>Cut! Cuuuuttt! drops defense to offset it
>incineroar is incineroar
>lando-i is special attacking
>rillaboom is probably the one mon on this list, but isn't destroyed by intimidate since it's there for setting grassy terrain to cuck things like EQ
>ogerpon also doesn't give a shit in general
>3 Physical Attackers
>3 Special Attackers
>Rest is Support Pokemon
What exactly is this supposed to prove here?
There are 7 physical attackers and 5 special attackers. You lost.
> What exactly is this supposed to prove here?
That special attackers clearly don’t need a nerf if physical attackers are that prominent even WITH burn and Intimidate existing. It’s almost as if they balanced the two categories around different strengths and weaknesses or something, dumbfrick.
Urishifu ignores intimidate
Ogerpon-H is immune to burns (and gets +1 Atk with Tera)
Chien-Pao is only one affected by both and it’s also dropping its opponent’s Def by 25% (same as 33% increase to all Atk) on top of having insane stat spread.
Meanwhile only Flutter Mane has insane stat spread for Special Attackers. Lando and Raging Bolt are pretty take stat wise.
>let's slap feathers on misdreavus and pretend it is a new pokemon !
paradox mons were a mistake
>>Gets Grim Neigh and Soul Heart, both being upgrades
Grim Neigh is more of a special version of Moxie and that's exclusive to one pokemon. Soul Heart (also exclusive) is literally broken on the account that it works when ANY pokemon faint.
which is better than Defiant
The pokemon that have this ability are rare
in general have less drawbacks than physical versions
Isn't that a good thing since it's show how Physical and Special have their own niche.
Be mindful, I'm not shitting on you or attacking you, but some of your points aren't that great since the abilities are either exclusive or rare. If they were on different/more pokemon, I can see the point. Also for the drawback thing, isn't that what give types their niche. Rock is known for having low acc. but amazing secondary effects.
feelings are 4 women and singles format is 4 children
Make frozen status only usefull when used by ICE TYPES. Simple as.
Also Its FREEZE That should drop speed, not paralyze.
>Make Freeze even less reliable
This buffs it how?
GF has built an asymmetrical balance for physical and special attackers, so introducing frostbite would be weird, but it's miles better than freeze so I wouldn't be against it
Drowsy is a shit RNG status, I don't think it'd be less annoying than sleep, then again sleep is just that awful too
are people so fricking moronic that they can only thing of any change in a vacuum?
>but changing le freeze to le frostbite would le nerf ice
then you could also buff ice in another way?
>but le frostbite would le nerf special attackers
then you could also buff special attackers in another way?
anyway freeze is dogshit game design that deserves to fricking go
frostbite won't mean shit until there's actually moves that capitalize on it like burn has.
burn has will-o-wisp which is a dedicated burning move on many fire/ghost mons, and scald which is cancer but it's low-hanging fruit for my point in hand
i would however be all for frostbite if it at least had a will-o-wisp like move because i want flutter mane to suffer
I wouldn't be surprised. I've had a theory the movesets in L: A were as-so, because of the premise this was a setting pre-organised battle competitions and humans making journeys specifically to seek people to battle and test themselves against, thus the pokémon had not sought to make their moves more powerful (an Earth Power being just as effective at stunning prey/driving threats away as hitting them with Earthquake).
When humans started having proper organised battle comps and there arose a need for the competitive edge to be found is when the evolution of movesets began.
Depending on how they play L: Z-A's setting, we could well be back in a time at the dawn of trainer battles yet again (because Drowsy becomes Sleep, Frostbite becomes Frozen, almost as if the pokémon discovered how to make their status effcts a more powerful affliction).
I feel that Frostbite and Freeze should co-exist.
BUT
Frostbite can only be applied via a Status move, and Freeze can only be applied to Frostbitten enemies. And then let Snowscape increase the freeze chance of Ice moves. To counteract this, there will now be more moves that can break out of freeze.
I actually propose that they get added in addition to the current status effects. Hear me out:
>Allow status conditions to be overwritten and eventually "time out" and cure themselves
This is something Legends got right and I think it would be huge for competitive. Allow statuses like Burn or Poison to go for a while and remain on switch out, but let them disappear or be overwritten by another status. This would cripple mons that rely on having a status to frick over opposition, but the net benefit would outweigh the loss of shit like Stall Gliscor. Plus it opens up new ways of playing. Maybe Safeguard and Pastel Veil would become viable options in this new meta?
>Frostbite
Most Ice type moves that cause Freeze now cause Frostbite. It works like Legends, lowering SpAtt and dealing dmg at the end of each turn. Freeze becomes a much more uncommon status than it already is and is relegated to very few moves being able to cause it, mostly inaccurate and niche attacks rather than your bread and butter. However, Snow would alter this by switching the Frostbite chance out for a Freeze chance on all of these same attacks. Freeze is still unlikely to happen but it makes it more "predictable" and also prevents some Ice types from being moronic unkillable walls with the Defense boost + Veil + Frostbite all happening at once. Ninetales can't come in, get up Snow for free, Veil, and then spam Blizzard fishing for Frostbite. That would be bullshit, so let's prevent that.
>Drowsy
Becomes an "alternate" to Sleep that leads into Sleep in certain scenarios. Moves like Hypnosis and Sing cause Drowsy, Spore still causes Sleep. Yawn causes Drowsy on the 1st turn, Sleep on the second. Drowsy Pokemon will fall Asleep if they are hit with another Drowsy status and are more susceptible to Sleep moves overall. A Drowsy Pokemon has their Def and SpDef cut by 25%, but has a 50% chance to snap out of it at the end of each turn. If they take damage, that jumps to 75%.
We need physical assault vest.
>>B-BUT THE PHYSICAL POKEMON ARE STRONGER
No, the physical attackers in the image mentioned before either ignore intimidate/burns or midigate it in some way. Learn to read AND play the game.
>P-physical attackers are just stronger tho!!!
Yes, and you say they’re stronger despite the fact that they obvious outliers that ignore physical attacker debuffs
>th-they’re all just outliers bro i-it’s just a coincidence the majority of the best pokemon every single gen are physical attackers bro
>all those physical attackers that have strong high crit moves? just outliers bro
>all those physical attackers that have easy access to attack and speed boosts? just outliers bro
>all those physical attackers that have access to strong priority? just outliers bro
>all those physical attackers that have access to easily spammable high BP moves like Flare Blitz/Wood Hammer/Close Combat/HJK/Outrage/Earthquake/Fishious Rend with virtually no drawback? Just outliers bro
yeah who cares about learning and actually playing the game, just keep staring at tier lists while suggesting dogshit balance changes like a moron
>4/6 physical attackers
not helping your point, moron
Incineroar and Rillaboom are used as Support Pokemon.
>>th-they’re all just outliers bro i-it’s just a coincidence the majority of the best pokemon every single gen are physical attackers bro
Yes anon, that’s how outliers works. There is over 1000 Pokemon the game, about half of them are physical attackers. Listing a few physical attackers that bypass intimidate/burn are in fact outliers.
>>all those physical attackers that have strong high crit moves? just outliers bro
There are multiple special attacks with high crit chances, and unlike physical versions, there is more than like 2 good moves.
>>all those physical attackers that have access to strong priority? just outliers bro
Vacuum Wave and Thunderclap
>>all those physical attackers that have access to easily spammable high BP moves like Flare Blitz/Wood Hammer/Close Combat/HJK/Outrage/Earthquake/Fishious Rend with virtually no drawback? Just outliers bro
Fire Blast, Leaf Storm, Focus Blast, Draco Meteor, Overheat, Hydro Pump, Water Spout, Dragon Energy, Eruption, Boomburst, Electro Shot, Blizzard, Thunder, Hurricane, Astral Barrage, Make it Rain, Meteor Beam, Fleur Cannon, Armor Cannon, Seed Flare, etc.
> Incineroar and Rillaboom are used as Support Pokemon
And as physical attackers.
> Listing a few physical attackers that bypass intimidate/burn
When you have to ignore over a dozen Pokemon just to fit your narrative it’s not an outlier anymore. It’s just you being a moron who doesn’t understand how physical Pokemon are designed.
> There are multiple special attacks with high crit chances,
That aren’t remotely as common as physical attacks with high crit chances. Why do you think there isn’t a special Surging Strikes? Why do you think there isn’t a special Ivy Cudgel? Why do you think there isn’t a special Flower Trick? Why do you think there isn’t a special Stone Edge? Use your fricking brain, moron.
> Vacuum Wave and Thunderclap
Now compare that to Mach Punch and Aqua Jet and Ice Shard and Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch and Bullet Punch and Grassy Glide and Extreme Speed and Fake Out. Which are more common and powerful? Use your fricking brain, moron.
> Fire Blast
>Hydro Pump
Bad accuracy and lower power than Flare Blitz and Wave Crash. Why do you think that is, moron?
>Leaf Storm
>Draco Meteor
>Overheat
Cuts your power in half after using it a single time and has worse accuracy than Wood Hammer/Outrage/Flare Blitz. Why do you think that is, moron?
>Focus Blast
Complete dogshit accuracy compared to HJK and Close Combat. Why do you think that is, moron?
>Water Spout
>Dragon Energy
>Eruption
Worse damage than Wave Crash/Outrage/Flare Blitz as soon as your Pokemon gets damaged. Why do you think that is, moron?
>Electro Shot
>Blizzard
>Thunder
>Hurricane
Requires weather to reliably use. Why do you think that is, moron?
>B-BUT THE PHYSICAL POKEMON ARE STRONGER
congrats moron, you're slowly starting to realize why physical attackers have intimidate and burn while special attackers don't.
Ummm Physicalbros…I thought Special Attackers were supposed to be bad and not need SpA Intimidate/Burns?
2 of them are dunking on Incineroar AND Urshifu (which ignores intimidate)
Btw these 2 are the highest used physical attackers that
A. Don’t mitigate/ignore intimidate
B. Don’t mitigate/ignore burns
C. Aren’t just used for support
Which us debatable since Roaring Moon often runs Tailwind and is also immune to prankster Will-o-wisp, while Cornerstone runs Follow Me.
Forgot pic
>leaves out Dragonite
>leaves out Ogerpon Wellspring
>leaves out Ursaluna
>leaves out Kingambit
>leaves out Iron Hands
>leaves out Dondozo
>leaves out Ting-Lu
>leaves out Rillaboom
>pretends he has a point
>Dragonite
Has Inner Focus
>Wellspring
Is Support Pokemon
>Ursaluna
Has Guts
>Kingambit
Has Defiant
>Iron Hands
Support Pokemon
>Dondozo
Water Veil and Oblivious block Intimidate and Burn respectively
>Ting-Lu
Wall
>Rillaboom
Support Pokemon
physical grass type is such a good thing to have lol just have rare special snowflake ability like grassy surge and super special snowflake move like grassy glide that is fricking 70 base power with priority haha such a delight to be physical grass type Llol
this
just ignore ferrothorn and ogerpon and kartana and meowscarada
if you ignore all the good pokemon then no good pokemon exist and game freak can put in my moronic balance suggestions
>ferrothorn
steel type
>ogerpon
fire type
>kartana
steel type
>meowscarada
dark type
next cope
>D-D-DOESN’T COUNT!!!!
zzz
>You see Frostbite or SpA Intimidate simply can’t be added to the game because Burns/Intimidate are actually needed!
>Look at all the physical attacks (all of which either are immune/mitigate Burn/Intimidate or are support Pokemon) that would be broken without them!
>Also ignore how Flutter Mane and Raging Bolt currently dominate VGC so much so the designated glue Pokemon Incineroar is now third place
>two good special attackers exist therefore we need to add a moronic status condition to nerf all special attackers
>please ignore how most of the meta is still physical characters and please ignore how most of them still get crippled by burn
Of the top 25 Pokemon
>10 are Special
>8.5 are Physical (.5 for Urshifu)
>Rest are Support Pokemon
Stop being a disingenuous moron and an actual liar.
>support pokemon that use physical attacks don’t count as physical attackers because it takes a giant smelly shit on my narrative
I guess Incineroar is a special attacker now because it uses Snarl.
Yes. It can be both. I’m glad you’re slowly learning how the game works.
A useful status condition that’s rarely available is better than a dogshit status condition that’s commonly available which doesn’t meaningfully help the type in the slightest and adds a nerf to special attackers for no reason.
But it is useful to ice types. They get a ice equivalent to flame body. Because everyone knows that special attackers make contatc. Also the flareon bit. Thats the important one.
>slowly lowering the opponent’s hp over a long period of time is useful for the worst defensive type in the game whose entire playstyle is removing opponents as fast as possible
>an ability that’s dependent on getting hit is useful for the the worst defensive type in the game whose entire playstyle is taking as few hits as possible
See
and
See
and
>every pokemon can use moves therefore every move must be equal
This is how fricking moronic you sound.
You’re the one claiming Incineroar is a special attacker because it can use Snarl.
This was very revealing of you. Thank you for playing.
If anything can be a Special attacker for using any special attack, then we should nerf those special attackers like how burn nerfs the same physical attackers.
> If anything can be a Special attacker for using any special attack, then we should add this pointless nerf because I’m a fricking moron who doesn’t understand the difference between physical and special attackers and thinks they’re somehow equal
How can every Pokemon be both a Physical or Special attacker if they aren’t equal? And what makes Frostbite moronic but not Burns?
You’re just a tard that scared of change and can’t admit it.
Btw if you’re counting support Pokemon, that means 14 of the top 25 Pokemon are Special Attackers.
Let's get this back on track.
Freeze has such low percentage that rather than compensating the OP effect of the status, it makes it a chore to fish for. On a casual run of the game you're more lucky to find a shiny than frezzing someone. Frostbite would be more readily aviable, would allow for the existence of a flame body equivalent for ice types, and most importantly a frostbite equivalent of the flame orb to run my guts flareon with a status effect that does less chip damage.
>Be me, PvP Children’s video game gigachad
>Me (37) and Wife ((45) Campaignshitter) are saving money for our kid’s college fund so they can go to a decent college
>Wife doesn’t know it, but I have better plans for our kid
>Go to the Casino with our kids college fund
>Campaignshitter wife starts calling me
>”ANON WHERE THE FRICK IS OUR SON’S COLLEGEFUND”
>”Don’t worry hun, I’m about to teach you something I learned from playing against my friends and random kids in Pokemon”
>”I put our kid’s college on black. You see in Pokemon it’s optimal to spam Ice Beam and Sheer Cold in hopes of freezing your opponent, which is way better than Frostbite or ‘reliable strategies’ campaignshitters like you would use”
>”So I’m betting all that money on Black. All of it. Every single penny. So the payout will be double. He’ll be a billionaire on no time”
>”What’s that Honey? Divorce and taking the kid? I should have known a campaignshitter like you wouldn’t understand. I bet Smogon personally told you to freak out at me.”
still waiting for you to explain what a better play in
would’ve been.
The better play would be to not gamble your son’s college fund and to actually be good at pokemon so you don’t fight a Pex with Ninetales.
You’re fighting an opponent and you’re both down to your last Pokemon.
Your Pokemon:
has 5% HP remaining
is faster
has Ice Beam, which damages 40% of the opponent’s total HP
has Moonblast, which damages 55% of the opponent’s total HP
Their Pokemon:
has 60% HP remaining
is slower
has a move that damages 70% of your Pokemon’s total HP
The turn is about to start. Which move do you pick to have the best chance at winning the game? You should know the answer to this.
neither because you arent getting the freeze if you click ice beam
>If I make tailor made scenarios where fishing for a frezze hold the most positive advantage for me it means that the status effect is good
Out of curiosity, if you hadn't had breakfast, how would you feel?
Scenarios where freeze wins you the game are much, much, much more common than scenarios where frostbite would win you the game.
holy shit someone else with > 50 IQ
>holy shit someone else with > 50 IQ
game recognizes game, at least now we can understand where all this autism comes from
>Scenarios where freeze wins you the game are much, much, much more common than scenarios where frostbite would win you the game.
This mother fricker actually thinks its still Gen 1 were freeze is permanent.
I click forfeit. Trying to go for a freeze and hope they don’t thaw or try getting a crit out is a b***h move and my opponent deserves the win for outplaying me.
Damn, maybe if that opponent’s Pokemon was influcted with Frostbite, you might have more health to work with while your opponent has less on that scenario.
Damn, maybe if that opponent’s Pokemon was influcted with Frostbite I would just fricking lose since I’m using a Pokemon with half a dozen weaknesses anyway
If your opponent is doing 70% to you normally, that means their attacks deal 35% if they were burned or frostbiten.
If you’re dealing 55% with moonblast, and your opponent took 40% attack while being frostbiten (if it was several turns prior it’d leave more room for you), you simply win now and don’t have to rely on an 8% chance of your opponent is frozen and doesn’t immediately thaw.
It’s really really really not hard to understand.
I don't get the support for frostbite, it really doesn't do anything for ice types. it could boost some ice moves but water types run ice coverage all the time and would make bulky waters even more powerful, but what would happen if that theoretical bulky water type also had scald? it would completely dominate. frostbite also doesn't mesh well with snow teams and isn't incentive enough to run to run a special ice type to "counter" Frostbite because the pokemon most likely to use frostbite are bulky waters and iron bundle, also specially attacking ice types are generally rather weak.
Ice types would be immune to Frostbite and what ever Frostbite Will-o-wisp and Lava Plume would be called would be distributed to more than just Water types.
also Freeze Dry exists so Ice types can be immune to the Special Attack drop while also hitting Water types super effectively
Wow so Ice types get to do….something they can already do in exchange for losing the best status effect in the game. Cool!
>the best status effect in the game
but its not loosing sleep?
Freeze is genuinely the worst status in the game ever since Gen 3.
Even if you ignore how you apply Freeze, it would still be pretty bad and only better than regular Poison.
You can’t be frozen if Sun is up
Every turn there is a 20% chance to thaw (aka just remove it without special conditions)
You can thaw out without RNG simply using moves like Scald or Flare Blitz which is on top of that 20% chance to thaw and all other ways to cure status conditions besides Rest
It’s also just straight up worse than Sleep and Paralysis. You’re guaranteed to have 1 turn of Sleep, and Paralysis guarantees your speed is halved and way harder to get rid of.
>[thing that effectively 1hkos a pokemon most of the time and often wins you entire games] is genuinely the worst status in the game
play the game
>>[thing that effectively 1hkos a pokemon most of the time
Unless you're playing gen 1, this isn't remotely true
>freeze gholdengo
>turn 1 is frozen and does nothing
>turn 2 is frozen and does nothing
>turn 3 is frozen and does nothing
>turn 4 is frozen and does nothing
you’re right it’s actually better than a 1HKO because the pokemon continues to take up a slot on the opponent’s field while I 2v1 the other Pokemon unless they gamble switching.
anon realistically how often are you freezing gholdengo
Clearly he swaps in his chien-pao holding an ice stone after predicting a trick. It evolves it into a frozengo.
You can literally stay frozen forever
Absolutely worthwhile
If “can happen” is a factor, then Paralysis is strictly better. It can keep you paralyzed forever, halves your speed, is way harder to prevent and cure, doesn’t cure itself when “can happen” doesn’t happen, and of course isn’t locked to just attacking moves with 10% chance to happen.
You can literally thaw out on the same turn you freeze
it's absolutely worthless
>10% chance to actually freeze
>41% chance to stay frozen for 4 turns
>better than a 1HKO
You clearly don't play the game, you fricking shitter. Any compgay worth his salt wouldn't rely so heavily on this level of luck.
Who said anything about relying on luck?
You, when you spent the whole thread defending THE most luck-based status effect, you drooling imbecile.
But who said anything about relying on it?
You, with every single scenario you present to defend Freeze.
Literally worse than sleep in every possible way.
i laffed at using the frostbite game engine logo for ops pic.
frostibite shouldn't just be burn for special attackers
it just makes special attacks another shade of physical
I don’t get why campaignshitters don’t just ask for atk/sp atk and def/sp def to get merged into one stat each
it’s clearly what they want since they have a meltdown trying to play any game without the phys/spec split and think there should be special/physical equivalents for everything
Shut the frick up Paco
>VGC match
>Porygon2 freezes Gholdengo
>Gholdengo is effectively useless the entire rest of the game while the Porygon2 player can just 2v1 the entire rest of the opponent's team
>instantly wins
wow it sure would've been better if gholdengo got a dogshit status condition that did nothing except lower its sp. atk while it just boosted back up with nasty plot and continued causing damage anyway. f-freeze is so bad bros game freak should listen to my moronic balance suggestions
>See Freeze is better because [Niche incredibly scenario]
Now imagine if instead of using Ice Beam, hoping Gholdendo doesn’t thaw out turn 1, hoping the opponent didn’t set up that turn, etc. The Porygon2 had “Frost Plume” where you have 30% chance to cause Frostbite?
That Gholdengo is now only doing half damage, takes 6% damage each turn, and also last forever. You also don’t rely on an 8% chance and Gholdengo will never thaw out of Frostbite.
>imagine if porygon2 had ice beam but worse
better*
Sorry keyboard slipped
I’m genuinely curious if Anti-Frostbite Black person thinks Freeze is the same mechanic as it was in Gen 1 or how it works in the current games?
I’m genuinely curious if Frostbite Black person ever actually touches the games after he reaches the credits?
I want to say so much but I can't because it's nothing more than a shit show that's going on here.
So yeah anti-frostbite Black person doesn’t play the game and doesn’t know how freeze works in modern gens
i don't even get what "campaignshitter" even means. like i thought it was just someone who played the PvE campaign and nothing else, but now it's just being thrown like a meaningless buzzword
Yeah it’s just a meaningless buzzword that just describes “people who disagree with me”
there was a thread discussing what the worst type is that had this same term popping up. i think the guy ITT who is spamming this term is the same guy from that thread because not only does that term appear in both threads but this similar argument also appears in both threads
https://arch.b4k.co/vp/thread/55640143/#55641692
>It’s funny how campaignshitters always invent all these moronic rules about how they’re supposed to use Pokemon because of their extremely poor understanding of the game.
IS SLOW AND HAS HIGH DEFENSE STAT? THAT MUST MEAN I HAVE TO USE IT DEFENSIVELY!
>Glastrier is bulky but if you’re using it defensively you’re literally just using the Pokemon wrong. You campaignshitters always have this strange logic where you make up these moronic arbitrary rules based on stats. It’s so fricking funny
both posts mention the term "campaignshitters" while also arguing that Glastier shouldn't be used defensively because of its high Defense stat
Realistically will-o-wisp would still be ran a lot, so your ice type could still take chip damage from burn and have it's attack halved, which is more more devastating for the ice type offensively then halved special attack, because generally physically attacking ice types are stronger then their special counterpart.
moronkun really be like “umm Freeze is like the best status in the game it’s effective an OHKO”
Like ok let’s nerf it then with Frostbite. Sounds busted and should be nerfed to be burn clone for SpA.