How would you fix Caesar's Legion as a faction?
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How would you fix Caesar's Legion as a faction?
How would you fix Caesar's Legion as a faction?
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make them all canonically huge breasted cat girls of questionable chasteness
Just get rid of it, the entire premise is moronic.
Slavery and rape mechanics that let you fully immerse as one of them.
Rape mission.
more quests and a legion companion like how ulysses was originally supposed to be
I don't really see any way they need fixing
They main issue is that they're seriously lacking in content.
Don't go far enough to piss off the NCR and you can go around doing quests but steer them towards sabotaging the NCR. Like blowing up the monorail or instigating more conflict between them and the Kings.
They don't shun technology/medicine and don't enslave people anymore.
Now they become a better faction than the NCR.
They just reek of reniassance faire/LARPer, it undermines any threatening aura they have. you're telling me they had the time and means to fricking learn Latin? and the football pads just seal it.
i would lean heavier into the "captured tribals" dynamic. the bulk of the forces you fight should be an assortment of different tribes. for gameplay, maybe one tribe uses mostly ranged, one are melee, another uses guns, etc. They still visually look like their own tribes, but with legion brands forcibly put on them. scars, brands, tatoos, helmets, but their original tribal identites are still visible underneath. maybe even converted ncr prisoners and other factions. These squads are all lead by one actual Legion member.
the above Makes seeing Centurions, frumentarii, legates, and legion "top brass" really rare and special. They all use tech liberally, of course (the no tech rule is just to further dominate their tribal conscripts)
and tone down the armor. they're at war with the ncr- no reason to not be using kevlar. stick some feathers on top if you must, but keep it realistic
I doubt most of them speak latin beyond a couple of phrases
Every motherfricker that says that the sports gear is dumb and make no sense. I implore you to watch Road Warrior and stop being children.
>i would lean heavier into the "captured tribals" dynamic. the bulk of the forces you fight should be an assortment of different tribes. for gameplay, maybe one tribe uses mostly ranged, one are melee, another uses guns, etc. They still visually look like their own tribes, but with legion brands forcibly put on them. scars, brands, tatoos, helmets, but their original tribal identites are still visible underneath. maybe even converted ncr prisoners and other factions. These squads are all lead by one actual Legion member.
the entire POINT of the legion is that their tribal identities were annihilated and assimilated into the legion.
You really think anyone ITT actually understands how the Legion functions past a superficial view as "lol post-apocalyptic LARP Romans"
I feel Fallout NV threads somehow attract the biggest lorelet morons and then specifically regarding the Legion
The amount of mongoloids who think they dont use guns and tech for example goes beyond trolling. The game is ancient and knowing so little yet posting here is fricking embarrassing
The game explicitly shows that they completely ban all medicine outright. And while they do use guns, this is clearly a concession to show that they've been forced to compromise on their ostensible values just to hope to win the war, as multiple characters describe how relying on guns makes you a pussy, and yet guess what, all of the elite troops have fricking guns.
>The game explicitly shows that they completely ban all medicine outright
Healing Powder uses the same ingredients as Stimpaks, and they evidently allow surgery.
Healing powder is total ass, and I don't think they know it can technically be made into stimpaks (even the followers don't know how to do it).
>and they evidently allow surgery.
Do they? I don't remember any legionaries talking about that level of medical care besides Caesar and his autodoc
They almost certainly do not do surgery, and if they do it is crude. If you are wounded enough to require surgery you're useless anyways.
Healing Powder isn't ass, it just scales off of Survival instead of Medicine, which no one levels. It's literally just a Stimpak without the pre-war syringe.
And yeah, Caesar implies they have primitive surgery when he's talking about his auto-doc. It's not modern medicine, but they're not so moronic they can't stitch a wound.
You can find surgical misc items laying around in the Fort. Obviously they're shit-quality in-universe because you need to buy proper tools from the Clinic to heal Caesar.
>the biggest lorelet morons and then specifically regarding the Legion
Well, there is Enclave next...
>the biggest lorelet morons and then specifically regarding the Legion
This is because Caesar's Legion wasn't properly developed and fleshed out as a faction; there are no legion towns, no legion "civilians" (I.E. Non-tribal peoples living in areas administered by the legion.) no legion companion and legion quests are sparse to say the least. Ontop of that we only see the legion as this horde of tribal crazies dressed in football gear and the only things we hear of the Legion in lore come from biased and incomplete sources in-game. All of this results in a faction where you have to infer alot of the details about it, which goes double when alot of the details have to be pried off the writers' blog since he couldn't put it in the game.
Combine that with how the faction as a whole is very antagonistic and alien and in sharp opposition to western values (done deliberately to oppose the NCR, as Caesar was a big fan of Hegel) This toxic combination results in a fricking drama lightningrod as loud opinionated morons selectively cherrypick bits and pieces of the incomplete and inferral-heavy information about it and start stupid flame wars.
Caesar literally has a fricking auto-doc in his tent and mentions how he bestows it's use upon "valuable" members of his legion as a powerful favour. See what I fricking mean?
There are dozens of sources in game that give you info on the legion including two of its founding members. There is no excuse to not know about the legion unless you didn’t play the game and if that’s the case why would someone even argue about it?
You're talking about a man who is actively lying to his followers. No shit he has an auto-doc. For the vast thousands, they receive nothing. They fight and get wounded and die.
>Combine that with how the faction as a whole is very antagonistic and alien and in sharp opposition to western values
This is a very polite way of saying "does absolutely nothing but utterly heinous acts of murder, torture, and terrorism, throughout the entire game". There's absolutely nothing more we could learn about the legion that could make their culture salvageable.
Still butthurt pussy?
>watching yet another moron argue the legion doesnt use tech when a quest tells you outright that they've invented radio encryption keys more advanced than the NCR's
In their defense, it is easy to misunderstand the Legion's actual view on tech. (I think even Gannon calls them luddites) The problem is that gaymers are completely incapable of understanding what an unreliable narrator is, so they just take everything said by any character at face value. That and also people don't understand why Caesar is so against the Securitron Bunker that he would kill a Legionnaire for entering it.
I think the acutal reason is that the Legion is made up of nomadic tribals who have no industrial base, and they have to make do with what they have and steal the rest. Caesar gives this a bravado machismo explanation. They don't fully reject tech, just opt for alternatives when possible and reward better equipment based on experience and merit. Rather than just steal Brotherhood or Super Mutant armor, they take them apart and re-use them as Centurian armor. Make it their own. Rather than stimpacks, they use healing powders which is just an unrefined version.
So both mechanics and in-game story there is no differences between men and women. If I were in charge, I'd give women a max Strength of 4, max endurance of 6, but a minimum charisma of 5. Just to make men and women differnet. Since the game throws so many perks at you, you can easily min-max a woman to wield heavy weapons.
>the football pads
original leather armor in classics is actually football equipment
??
The leather jacket is just supposed to look like Max's leather police jacket from the first Mad Max movie.
He said Leather ARMOR. It's literally football gear.
He means THIS you fricking mongoloid. And it's post-war brahmin-hide leather armour that's based off pre-war equipment used for football, rugby, and other contact sports.
>They just reek of reniassance faire/LARPer, it undermines any threatening aura they have. you're telling me they had the time and means to fricking learn Latin? and the football pads just seal it.
They just have no internal industry and their gear just flat out SUCKS. At every stage an NCR unit is better - all the way from the footsoldiers to the elites. NCR Ranger Vets are literally the best units in the game (NCR Heavy Troopers are actually quite weak) because they have good armor and the 3 best guns in the game (Brush Gun,
Changes i'd make:
>Caesar is an actual NCR General whose mission was to pacify the tribals and instead absorbed them into his army and is heading towards the NCR
>Edward Shallow is a former follower and Caesar's right hand man - who sold him on the Caesar legend
>They have proper metal plates on top of football gear
>they have a "heavy armor" equivalent (Lanius' armor) for heavy troopers
>they have an actual city and some industry
>they came across a large cache of captured Chinese weapons, so their primary weapons are AK-74's (Marksman carbine), SVD (Sniper Rifle equivalent), and AK-74U (12.7mm smg equivalent)
and SVD's
>they hit hard and can match NCR unit for unit
"I want US v China with some flair but make it post war"
Gay.
Legion gear flat out SUCKS both offensively and defensively. They need guns that hit harder and can compete.
It's pathetic to see a Centurian run around with a hunting rifle or some shitty shotgun. Meanwhile the NCR equivalent has Brush guns, Ranger Sequoas, and a freaking Anti-Material rifle (three of the best guns in the game period).
They should still have their survivalist Roman angle - just hit harder. Lanius' armor should be a more standardized Heavy Trooper unit.
>"I want US v China with some flair but make it post war"
It's already heavily Iraq and Vietnam war analogy if you didn't notice.
All they need to do is ditch the red uniforms. Bundled up in biege and brown tunics with headwraps and the like, they could very easily ambush and kill any NCR patrol. They can usually close ground before troopers can even kill them when they're taken by surprise. The 21 foot rule is in effect still.
Just add the east bank of the Colorado that is on the map, alongside the respective legion content that would go along with it.
Just add more story, lore, and a few locations that aren’t military camps to show how civilian life in the legion is.
Get rid of the “we brutally enslave women” aspect since it was done intentionally (as admitted by Chris Avellone) to make them “the villains” and it makes literally zero sense for Caesar’s ideology
He’s trying to emulate the Romans and they had slaves. Not to mention it works.
The romans didn't slaughter every adult man of the people they conquered and force all the women and children into chattel slavery. They made extensive use of client kingdoms, and when they did civilize a region, they did so by enforcing their laws until it's just what people were used to, not by trying to manually raise all the children under existing roman citizens. Because as it turns out, brutally destroying an entire civilization not only gives you a lot less citizens to work with, it also engenders generational hatred which can come back to frick you or your successors in the ass. The Legion in New Vegas is closer to the Khanate invasion of eastern and central Europe than it is to Rome or any of its claimed successors. (Much like how the Khans were actually much more similar to the Sioux, a major point of the game being how symbols and names could be reinterpreted in entirely different and historically inaccurate ways, but non the less valid and culturally useful, at least in the eyes of those people).
>The romans didn't slaughter every adult man of the people they conquered and force all the women and children into chattel slavery
You’re aware the Legion doesn’t do that for everyone right? Like there are people under the legion that live pretty peacefully. Not to mention they assimilate the tribes like Antony who was a member of the Hangdogs in Denver. They only wholesale slaughtered Lanius’s tribe because he asked Caesar to because they were weak and it was his stipulation to serve him.
>You’re aware the Legion doesn’t do that for everyone right?
Have you noticed that there is not a single member of the legion that's even close to as old as Caesar? Want to take a guess why? It's the same reason that Caesar had no reason to deny Lanius the chance to slaughter the men of his tribe who had already surrendered: that was already the plan. It shouldn't come as a surprise, given that literally the only person in the entire game that the legion don't kill or enslave when they get the upper hand in a location is Fantastic.
>Have you noticed that there is not a single member of the legion that's even close to as old as Caesar? Want to take a guess why?
because our only interactions with the legion take place either in a war encampment or in enemy territory where we see only legion soldiers
In the actual rome, Centureons had to be at least 30 and were frequently much older. In Caesar's legion, the entire military is young men. Lucius was considered "getting on in years" despite being no older than 40.
Stop being autistic, the legion isn’t an exact copy of the Roman Empire.
Correct! They're fricking not! They're just larpers, who the actual Romans would have identified as barbarians with a cargo cult understanding of what civilization actually is.
They have a functioning society with systems and people to support themselves all they’re lacking in is a cultural identity. Why are you getting so assblasted by them? Seriously.
>Why are you getting so assblasted by them?
Because they torture people to death by the thousands in a completely unsustainable war campaign against decency itself. They are one of the worst factions in any video game ever, and the fact that you would try to defend them is deplorable. They aren't even nearly as strong or effective as they claim to be and which you seem to think they are.
Stop trying to moralgay this is the post apocalypse and war shit isn’t pretty. If you can’t handle that go play something like Animal Crossing and go be a whiny pussy somewhere else.
And yet other factions seem to be doing just fine in the south west without having to resort to nailing people to crosses, so I'm not sure why you'd support the gays that decide that's the right course of action.
Don’t go there you really don’t want to get started on all the fricked up shit the others have done.
Really? You want to tell me another faction that's even a tenth as bad as the legion? Even the fricking FIENDS at least mostly keep to their own territory.
You do realize the NCR is pulling glowie shit on a regular basis. House let the U.S. get destroyed so he could start over himself and Yes Man is just chaos unless you’re a oh so cool Mary Sue.
Obviously. You didn't answer the fricking question, I didn't ask for another faction that also did bad things, but another faction that was even close to as bad as the fricking legion. The NCR fricked up their orders in a stand off with a raider tribe and ended up killing some civilians. They consider it a shameful failure, that left the men involved mentally and emotionally scarred. The legion as general policy torture people to death for the crime of resisting being enslaved. The difference in values is so vast that I have no idea how you can even pretend they are comparable.
Of course a pussy like you would think I’m talking about Bitter Springs which The Khans deserved. I’m talking about hiring mercenaries to harass Jacobstown, or having you kill Pacer and make it look like an OD or the shit with Vault 22, or the fact that they’re letting corporations and Brahmin Barons run everything and have free reign. Also they torture people too. They just hire it out to others.
I brought up bitter springs because it's the worst NCR thing brought up in the game, and most comparable to what the legion does. If you want to compare hiring mercenaries to harass super mutants to enslaving children to use as frick slaves, we can do that, but it'll only make you even more moronic.
No you brought it up because you think it’s bad. Also where is it mentioned they participate in pedophilia? Honestly you’re just making assumptions at this point to enable your autistic hateboner. What’s next are you going to call them chuds? Pathetic.
I guarantee I'm far more of a "chud" than you, moron. Acting like it's acceptable to run a slaver nation because "it's le post apocalypse" is not being based and redpilled, it's being a stupid fricking Black person without a shred of moral character. You're probably so dumb you just like them because all the named members are white. Did you even stop to consider WHY they were all made white?
Nice fake chud rant, also no black legion members? That other anon was right these threads do attract lorelets.
I said "named" members, you illiterate moron. Except Ulysses I guess.
Still wrong lorelet
>all the named members are white
Wrong. And Cato Hostilius also appears latin, at least on the playing card.
No, moron. They're not LARPers, they're completely detached from even understanding what Rome was. Caesar knows what Rome was, and he expressly impresses its aesthetics onto his followers BECAUSE they don't know what it is. So they are all equally culturally annihilated by their integration into the Legion.
They ban modern/pre-war medicine and weaponry but actively use herbal remedies and melee weaponry because the philosophical doctrine of the Legion is a rejection of technological reliance. The further you go up the ladder the more access you have to technology because to reach those levels in society you'd have proven yourself to be a believer in those tenants.
Because they've been indoctrinated since birth or already do that. Antony pines over the loss of their dogs when the tribe was integrated. We know a centurion loved Jimmy the sex slave but tried to kill him out of fear of reprisal if they were ever caught. Silus is another centurion who doesn't even kill himself like he's expected to as a legionnaire. The whole system of the Legion in fact seems to favour cowards over actual believers. It's fear that keeps the engine of the Legion chugging along.
>Caesar knows what Rome was,
No, he thinks he knows. But he has a highschool tier education, an incredibly surface level understanding of it. He also seemingly has no interest in its perpetuity after his own death, given that he did the same thing that brought about most of Rome's worst periods and its ultimate collapse: picked an psychopathic moron to succeed him.
>The further you go up the ladder the more access you have to technology because to reach those levels in society you'd have proven yourself to be a believer in those tenants.
More like the further up you go, the more you're allowed to be a hypocrite. Also, >herbal remedies, lmao. Even in game they suck dick outside of the ridiculous ones from honest hearts.
>No, he thinks he knows
He knows what it is, and what he has taken from it is a singular aspect which is aesthetic. You're being moronic. He doesn't need or care about the rest of Roman society. He wants an aesthetic foreign to the mongrels he's using as his dogs of war. He knows the tribes would have trouble integrating if one or more could feel a cultural link to the Legion seperate of its Legion-ness. Hence Rome. A bunch of spearchuckers in the desert have nothing in common with Rome, so he makes them all dress like that. It's incredibly simple to understand.
>More like the further up you go, the more you're allowed to be a hypocrite. Also, >herbal remedies, lmao. Even in game they suck dick outside of the ridiculous ones from honest hearts.
No shit, it's a broken system that favours those smart enough or lucky enough or cowardly enough to survive. The Legion is doomed to failure.
>No, he thinks he knows. But he has a highschool tier education, an incredibly surface level understanding of it.
I wondered why Obsidian didn't call Caesar's Legion Lycurgus' Phalanx since they share way more in common with Sparta, not Rome. Until i stumbled upon an observation that roman theme fits more with Vegas because picrelated.
Lanius without his Helmet looks pretty old also how many older men do you see actively fighting in wars? Also the Roman’s did fricking murder and enslave entire civilization or do you think Carthage just disappeared one day?
Read the Gallic Wars. They would wipe out entire nations if they felt like it, every man, woman and child would be executed.
Caesar openly and brazenly lied about what he did to the Gauls, claiming to have killed far more of them than existed.
>Lanius without his Helmet
Is non canon. While sources differ about his background, he was at most a young teenager when he became legionnaire. Carthage was a city which was brutally punished for resisting a siege for 3 years after breaking a treaty they had already made with Rome, the carthagenian civilization as a whole was not destroyed.
>Is non canon
It’s just the character without his helmet, you can say whatever you want but it’s in the game and exists
>Carthage was a city which was brutally punished for resisting a siege for 3 years after breaking a treaty they had already made with Rome
It was brought under Rome, its colonies were seized, its leaders were killed, and many of its citizens were enslaved. Yeah it was destroyed. Stop trying to finagle the Romans were doing Brutal shit constantly.
The romans did do brutal shit, and frequently it was completely unjustified, pointless, or both. What they did not do is slaughter entire civilizations to try to raise their children under roman cultural rule, because that's insane and wasteful.
Except as we’ve already established they did, any one that rose up against them was crushed. Stop trying to give a history lesson on shit you don’t understand. The Roman’s needed the land and some of the people they did give a shit if some back water tribe was wiped out.
>Except as we’ve already established they did
No they didn't. They weren't even capable of it. That's why the same groups of people kept rebelling over and over again over the years. The example you gave, the brutal destruction of the city of Carthage, want to know how many slaves came of that? 50,000.
You mean the survivors of the destruction. Stop being obtuse you used a shit example and are trying to stretch as much out of it as you can.
Doesn't caesar say that lanius lost most of the skin on his face?
There are differing accounts of his origins.
That was just one example, anon. But cope all you want.
Add some actual Legion locations east of the dam. Axe North Vegas, Westside, Aerotech and Camp Golf if you need more time developing them. Also, make a Legion friendly route in Honest Hearts with shit to do besides being a murderhobo, and add an option to inform Caesar that you have killed Joshua.
>Much like how the Khans were actually much more similar to the Sioux
I believe the primary source inspiration was different, at least in New Vegas.
This. Raul kinda does but he is lust indifferent.
>I believe the primary source inspiration was different, at least in New Vegas.
Visually, certainly, but their relationship to the NCR is a very blatant, I would even say on the nose reference to the wars between the US federal government and the plains indians in the 19th century.
That i can agree with.
not real. genocide doesnt leave you open for retaliation. if anything rome made the mistake of absorbing too much crap. look at how white colonies came bite us back too. despite whites bringing infrastructure there.
better to kill everyone.
Well I was talking about what Rome did, not what it ought to have done. You may have something of a point, considering how after the collapse of the empire, all of Europe and a third of Asia claimed to be the true successor to Rome (except the brits I think?), implying that the growing weakness of their military capacity may have been as much due to heterogeneity and internalized weakness at it was imperial mismanagement.
The biggest issue is that this makes them the clear heroes and so why would any non-cuck with a brain pick NCR?
I think just ditch the portion that makes it seem like he enslaves women purely for the pleasure of carrying around refrigerators all day.
Basically the best fix is to challenge the necessary evil narrative. A cruelty of indifferent efficiency, women are caretakers and brood mares, and nothing else. Men are warriors and nothing else. They pacify the wastes with a hard fist and have little tolerance for corruption in their ranks. Make them the poster child for all fascist apologists.....and truly ask if it's worth it.
This would have helped a lot. They should have also condemned the NCR's use of female soldiers not as being emblematic of a cultiral weakness, but a barbaric and dysgenic negligence, even seeing their enslavement of NCR women (and particularly soldiers) not as rightfully won spoils of war, but an act of genuine mercy, getting them out of danger.
The game already refers to Caesar's Legion as an army of slaves. The average Legion recruit isn't exactly a liberated man, everyone is under hierarchy and can be beaten to death for the most basic mistakes. They also already follow that sort of logic where women are simply less fit for combat than men.
They are either volunteers who have joined because they think the Legion is the winning team, or they are tribals who were conquored. The tribals lives aren't much different, they in fact likely get more education and civilization under Caesar, but more harshness and top down centralized command.
The Khans, Vipers, powder gangers, Scorpions, that other one, could all join the Legion if they wanted to. The Fiends however can be allied with the Legion but end up being killed by them simply because they're too unreliable, unpredictable, and too chem addicted.
irony: the Fiends for 85% of the time are better equipped than the Legion since they wield energy weapons, riot shotguns which outlcasses everyone but the highest level legion assassin. If Driver Nephi got off downers he'd likely make a very high level soldier in the Legion.
A lot of people forget that The Fiends took over a control vault with tons of shit in it so they’re not exactly light weights.
How did the Fiends get all their equipment? Is it the Van Graffs, the Legion, the Omertas, the Khans, or what? Did they just steal it all?
>How did the Fiends get all their equipment? Is it the Van Graffs, the Legion, the Omertas, the Khans, or what? Did they just steal it all?
Vanessa outright says that they have "no energy weapons" even though energy weapons are a favorite of them. Someone must have wanted to distinguish them from other Raiders, and noticed that the Van Graff factory is right across from their territory. Yeah, they steal pretty much everything. All their equipment is high tier but low not kept well so it's in low condition. implying they steal them until they break and find new ones.
btw, there's actual real world hobo thieves in my town who live near the river and steal bikes. They are goblin-men, and quite industrious. They take bikes apart, and have a strong business selling frank-en-bikes, or selling the parts individually. As such, I believe that serious drug addicts can be highly motivated industrious people if they need to.
Presumably they steal them all. Maybe they trade with some other gangs like they trade chems with the Khans. In the Omerta quest if you go the pro Legion route one of the objectives is to recover a weapon shipment that was stolen by the Fiends, so they are doing that.
Probably a mix of what they found in the vault as well as what they’ve taken from caravans.
They took over a vault, scavenge whatever they can and the Laser RCW is a favorite of theirs. Their only major problem is a lack of proper armor so they're often cut down before they can really fight you. Maybe with a bit more time they could have made Fiend Vaulttec Security armors?
>give them shit to do
Easy fix. Maybe instead of having 70% of all quests tie into NCR quests they could've taken a bunch of those and made them legion affiliated.
Don't fix what isn't broken
yeah actually I'd add Vulpes as a companion
The simplest fix is to simply have a companion that shares their views.
Yeah this having a fricking companion is the most basic bare bones "content" they can do and still somehow fricked it up not adding a Legion guy, Any Prime legionare maybe with a different helmet, all he needs is a machete, a submachine gun and like a quest involving attacking the NCR camps. They really didnt give a frick about making the Legion a part of the game or an option
ulysses was supposed to be the legion companion in the base game but had to be cut because he had so much dialogue that it didn't fit on the disc
nothing, they're perfect
I don't think they really need to be "fixed" but they need to show that the faction can survive withour caesar
A society like that couldn't survive without caesar. It's a roaring fire, huge and intense, but fleeting. It cannot be sustained.
That's like saying that they should have the NCR be less bureaucratic.
>tfw no vulpes bf to treat me like the degenerate I am
They are only good for dismantling, their ideology isn't sound for the courier to team up with them and take control of the dam, otherwise that should would just be Fallout 4 except instead of outposts you need to rescue from whatever the frick, you just go there with your cronies and recruit children and psychopaths and rape and kill all the women.
the idea of Roman LARPers is moronic
i dunno why they couldnt simply make an empire BASED on the Roman Empire's ideology without the Football gear and throwing spears
Their larping is part of their charm.
They're already good. They feel like outsiders and invaders, like they should be. All that they needed were more areas where you can feel "in" with them.
As many in this thread have said, emphasize how they're a conglomeration of conquered tribes unified by a guy who realized he's Caesar and is trying to Hegel his way back to Rome. Make it so they still use advanced medicine and make it so they assimilate and subdue more of the factions you sided with during a legion ending instead of slaughtering and enslaving literally all of them. Focus less on how the legion are brutal but they make the trade caravans run on time (boring) and more about the contrast between the psychotic warrior culture that drives the legion and the abstract intellectual goal it's trying to force into existence (more realistic and more interesting).
Really, just giving them more identity than just the same centurion with the same voice and character model over and over again would go such a long way.
either tone don't the cartoonishly evil treatment of women
or draw equal attention to how the Legion's system is just as brutal on men as it is on women.
Or at the very least acknowledge that realistically, a lot of women would enjoy being housewives and breeding sows. Gender roles exist for a reason. Men can enjoy being soldiers and hunters, women can enjoy raising kids, homemaking and the like.
>or draw equal attention to how the Legion's system is just as brutal on men as it is on women.
homie, the whole population of the legion consists of slaves with varying roles dictated by birth. Men are either soldiers or labourers, women are servants or breeders. What do you mean "draw equal attention"?
>What do you mean "draw equal attention"?
How about have guys in the legion express doubts about being a fricking slave soldier, or some instances of defection?
I mean that the game doesn't really dwell upon the fact that it would be brutal irl.
the legionnaires you encounter are all smug pricks who are more than happy in their position, but the game glosses over the men who died or are dying for the sake of Caesar's desert larp.
NPCs outside the Legion could also acknowledge that it's not a great place for men or women under its thumb instead of merely focusing on the plight of women or homosexuals.
They don't have much of a point of reference to not feel smug. They've been told since birth or integration that they're the chosen sons of the God of War and destined to savage the wastes and claim it as their own. All they've done up until the Mojave campaign is lay waste to tribals and blow past actual functioning early-NCR tier towns which Caesar just does business with via the diplomacy of "we killed all the tribals for you, do as I say or you're next"
the actual roman empire had public works
so yano, give them some of those
The Legion is perfect as it is. It's the maximum possible extent of the true Great Man theory put into action: where the NCR has no real leader who controls it completely, just a president who can sort of direct it, and House is an immortal who doesn't play by the same rules as normal humans, Caesar is just a guy. He's done the best possible job that a guy can do, but everything he's built is doomed, and everyone who's not a Legionnaire blinded by lies can tell it will collapse the second he dies. For all Caesar's bluster about being a student of history, he either can't tell or refuses to admit that every empire built around a single person always collapses soon after they die, which means siding with the Legion innately dooms the region. Compare this to siding with the NCR, where the Legion will fall soon afterwards because Caesar's dead, the NCR is too stable for you to destroy, even if it loses a battle or two.
And all of that is to say nothing of how much of a fricking hypocrite Caesar is in every possible way.
>he either can't tell or refuses to admit that every empire built around a single person always collapses soon after they die,
Caesar is banking entirely on his idea of synthesis with the NCR. He wants the Legion to undergo a Republic Transformation when he takes Vegas, so it can outlast him and survive as a stronger fusion of Legion and NCR values.
>They don't have much of a point of reference to not feel smug.
Which is fair, but I feel like that the goal of the writing should have been to make Legion characters sympathetic through their indoctrination.
>Caesar is banking entirely on his idea of synthesis with the NCR.
Which is completely impossible. Every single one of his men has it drilled into their brains that the degenerate californians and everything they built and believe in must die. If Caesar tries to tell them to play nice with their ontological enemy, he will be removed and replaced. The legion follows Caesar, not Edward Sallow, and Caesar would never suggest such a thing. The end game of the legion, were it to succeed, is not a synthesis of the west, but its complete extermination, because the person who most embodies what the legion is is not Eddy, but Lanius.
He doesn't expect the Legion to survive this. If you're familiar with 40k, he's gonna do what the Emperor did to the original proto-space marines, which is have them all massacred in a battle they cannot win, except it'll be many battles. Like there's absolutely no way the Legion survives war in NCR proper. Pre-War tier military units, vertibirds, ect. It will end in mass bloodshed and the collapse of both societies.
Well realistically what it would end up with is the nuking of western nevada, as the legion converges at the border.
They generally lack the attention span to do anything but scratch their own nuts back West, or kill each other over property rights, so. I'd be surprised if they did anything before they got within earshot of the first cattle grazing fields in California
Caesar-issued packmule wife.
I would completely change every aspect of them and turn them into techno Romans. Instead of brainless barbarians they would use advanced technology and fight in formations with walls of shields.
Turning the Legion into a Rome flavored version of the BoS is dumb
My main problem with the Legion is that it has a population in the thousands, probably tens of thousands and nothing seems to imply they have the capacity to maintain a standing army in the thousands as Caesar has no intentions of creating an empire that rivals the NCR, he just wants to bash his army into the NCR and hope the outcome is in his favour. People who act like there's a citizen class back East are morons who misunderstand Caesar.
By taking literally everything they have associating themselves to the Romans. That's it. Improved by the sole fact that they won't be fricking LARPers.
>but I like LARPing as Rome!
It's fricking cringe.
You know what else is “cringe” larping as a tacticool techno knight but you don’t seem to have an issue with that. Stop being autistic and get over yourself.
I mean they are nearly perfect, make it clear they are a desert cult that will long outlive most local governments (See christianity/islam etc)
And stop pretending that Fallout is a fair representation of non-fabian socialist regimes
the problem I have with the Legion is that they're obviously designed to be the antagonist faction and your gameplay gets gimped if you side with them. you get locked out of a lot of content and a huge portion of the game map instantly becomes hostile to you if you side with them. this would be okay if the Legion questline and areas were fully fleshed out to make up for what you lose by siding with them, but the questline and areas aren't very well fleshed out compared to the other routes. lastly, they're a little too cartoonishly evil which makes it feel silly if you side with them
tl;dr the Legion route is half-baked but would've been awesome if they put more development time into it
In Lonesome Road, Ulysses mentions how assimilation leads to the Legion itself changing in character. He even specifically notes that the Legion he knew would never even consider having a woman working as an agent, but that the Legion has changed in many ways since he left. They really should have nailed on this point more in the base game. Make it clear that as the Legion moves West, it slowly morphs into a weird amalgamation of identities. Maybe add a quest where you meet some fresh Legion recruits, these recruits would be from some no-name tribe that existed on the Colorado and interacted with the more civilized folk of the Mojave. In this quest, you would help them find a way to infiltrate Hoover Dam, and it would be obvious that they have a completely different skillset from the average Legionnaire. They have a better understanding of pre-War tech, their Decanus isn't so strict, in fact he accepts it when his men grumble from time to time, and they aren't constantly talking about how nice it would be to lop off a profligate's head and rape his wife, instead they would be talking about how nice it will be to set up a big fat ranch in the Mojave after the war is over. They would essentially reflect a culmination of Caesar's ideas, that the Legion is going to incorporate the positive aspects of the NCR.
>In Lonesome Road, Ulysses mentions how assimilation leads to the Legion itself changing in character. He even specifically notes that the Legion he knew would never even consider having a woman working as an agent, but that the Legion has changed in many ways since he left. They really should have nailed on this point more in the base game.
The game does this, but in the opposite direction. While the legion presents itself as being honorable and intrinsically strong, it's clear that the sheer manpower deficit between them and the NCR has caused them to abandon their principals to secure victory. Deals with profligates, treaties made in false pretense, dirty bombs, booby trapping corpses, domestic terrorism, mass murder of third parties, these are desperate, al qaeda-esque attempts at force multiplication, not the fighting style of a confident and powerful empire. The fact that they would take a woman as frumentarii is not evidence that the Legion is softening, but that it is getting desperate. That behind the pastiche of strength lies a predator that has grown lean and cruel.
Ritualized combat culture storyline, slavery exploration, and an elite regiment with power armor and proficiency in firearms that comes in towards the end to see if they need to intervene but chooses not to at any point, with the only time you can fight them being if you are gigamoronic and start blasting
rule 63 them. complete role reversal. theyre all women and they deal with men like currency capturing them and putting them to slave use. as a matter of fact apply this to everything. everything that used to be male is now female.
female supermutants.
female deathclaws.
the sisterhood of steel.
Im ready my lord.
Allow a higher level of technology. Make the slaves work In factories creating armor, and gear. Give the soldiers better munitions and armor.
You say that but you ignored my last replythat outed you as a lorelet? Also you don’t need to pretend anymore. Just saying a few racial slur’s isn’t going to convince anyone.
Their costumes are just way over the top
I'm sure there was a way to have a roman motif without looking like ...that
it's already perfect tbh
new vegas factions are fell well done
I didn’t say or interpret anything you’re just assuming this because of the memes you’re most likely familiar with i’ve mentioned nothing about race or Europe outside of the fact they’re based on Rome. Also Graham is the example you’re using? Really Jesus you really are a lorelet, that comment as well as the one about Atticus sealed it.
>I didn’t say or interpret anything
Yes you did. You said I was going to insult you by calling you a "chud" for seeing the legion as anything other than moronic psychopaths.
>Also Graham is the example you’re using?
Yes, I am using Graham as an example of a character with actual traditional moral conviction who also recognizes the legion as evil despite having personally help build it. Are you disputing that?
>Yes you did
No I didn’t and maybe you should learn to read because I said “what’s next are you going to call them chuds” because all you are doing is whining and moralgayging. And then you had to hide this by larping.
>
>Yes, I am using Graham as an example of a character with actual traditional moral conviction
I would laugh at how utterly ignorant you are but this is just sad. It’s like gut punching a child after they kick you. Play the game chief.
>No I didn’t and maybe you should learn to read because I said “what’s next are you going to call them chuds” because all you are doing is whining and moralgayging.
Which is exactly what I just fricking said.
>I would laugh at how utterly ignorant you are but this is just sad
Not an argument.
No you said that “I was going to call you a chud” which I never said, learn to read.
>Not an argument
It was it was an acknowledgment of your ignorance and that you didn’t play the game which given how much you don’t know is getting more and more obvious. Especially since you’re saying Graham of all people has traditional moral convictions when everything in HH is just him getting progressively more pissed until the final moment when you talk him down and he admits that he did all of it not to help or save Zion but for his own revenge. Play the game and stop letting memes shape your views on character.
>Especially since you’re saying Graham of all people has traditional moral convictions when everything in HH is just him getting progressively more pissed until the final moment when you talk him down
Maybe you did, you fricking pussy. The white legs deserved extermination. Sure, Graham rationalizes his decision to stand down if you compel him to with your psychic speech check powers, but that doesn't make hm correct. Sometimes, your wrath and God's wrath actually are the same thing.
>no u
I didn’t say they didn’t but it’s obvious Graham isn’t doing it because he wants to help which is the crux of what you were saying about him. But the fact that you’re attempting this pathetic reversal and repeating the same shit all the larper memes say about him it’s obvious that I was right on the money about you, go back.
>I didn’t say they didn’t but it’s obvious Graham isn’t doing it because he wants to help
You're right, it's because he fricking hates them, because they fricking deserve it, because the embody everything wrong with man. And he's RIGHT. He's spot fricking on. Slaughtering them to the last, and everyone like them, is exactly what the world needs. And you pulled the complete opposite lesson from it, because you are a coward, a pathetic pretentious charlatan, just like your stupid fricking legion, that can't beat even a single finger of the fat and indolent republic of California without the intercession of a demigod.
I’ll take this as your concession since you’re doing everything you can to deflect away from what we were talking about while larping as an edge lord and going against your to hide the fact not even an hour ago you were moralgayging. Seethe pussy.
>Killing unambiguously evil people is the same thing as torturing people to death for resisting being conquered
You genuinely have no soul and do not understand justice.
>strawman
This is all you have left isn’t it? Just hurling whatever you can hoping it will work. Keep crying pussy.
>Says the guy who had josh spare chief gobbledyasiatic
lol
>Says the guy who had josh spare chief gobbledyasiatic
General Gobbledyasiatic, also using the name all the memegays use is another point on the lorelet board
>Also it's not a strawman
It is since I never said it was the same. You should really know what something is before you argue against it.
>It is since I never said it was the same.
You just did, when you said it was incongruent to oppose the legion's brutality while suggesting the white legs ought to be wiped out.
Where? show me the exact quote where I said that.
Here:
You fricking moron
No where in that post do I say that Graham and Caesar are the same I was calling your deflection away from the argument as well as you larping as an edgelord trying to try an hide the fact that you were moralgayging. Are you an ESL or something your reading comprehension is fricking garbage.
>I was calling your deflection away from the argument
It's not deflection, it's an example, you fricking idiot. It's not "moralgayging" to say that degenerate slaver rapists who hand people form lamp posts and booby trap dead bodies aren't a culture worth preserving or a viewpoint worth giving consideration to. A point which you have completely avoided this entire thread, because you're moronic ass can't come up with a single defense for it. But then it's obvious you can barely read, and with how you throw out "ESL" like it's the weekly trash, I'm guessing your a Hispanic. No wonder you can't morally distinguish between slaughtering civilians and aggressing enemies, in your moor-tainted brain, there is no meaningful difference.
It is since I called you out for using Graham as an example of morality despite the fact that he didn’t kill the White Legs for a moral reason which you haven’t denied and instead went on an edgy tirade about justice trying to change the subject to Graham. Also with how assblasted you’re getting by the ESL line as well as the assumption you’re probably a Latinx yourself. Keep crying pussy you haven’t been able to defend your position and are now just digging for whatever you can, you don’t even know what strawman and deflection mean despite using them so much.
>despite the fact that he didn’t kill the White Legs for a moral reason which you haven’t denied
Yes I did. I explicitly said it was the right thing to do and done for the right reasons.
>and instead went on an edgy tirade about justice
Justice IS a moral reason.
>Keep crying pussy you haven’t been able to defend your position
You're the one that never even mounted a defense, I've just been making fun of you. I ask again, so you can try again: name another faction in the game that's even close to being as bad as the legion. Explain how their policies or behavior is in any way justified or even sane.
>Yes I did. I explicitly said it was the right thing to do and done for the right reasons
No he was doing it for himself and then all you did was repeat some shit about “gods wrath” like the larper you are despite Graham himself saying otherwise.
>Justice IS a moral reason
Graham wasn’t doing it for Justice he was doing it for revenge.
>You're the one that never even mounted a defense
I have, and and I did to which you didn’t come up with a reply to it. You just got butthurt and started larping when asked if you were going to call them chuds. And you want to know how they’re justified might makes right a very simple principle that has existed throughout human history if you don’t like it cry about it somewhere else.
>No he was doing it for himself and then all you did was repeat some shit about “gods wrath” like the larper you are despite Graham himself saying otherwise.
For a good person these need not be different. Graham agrees with and rationalizes your choice no matter what it is.
>Graham wasn’t doing it for Justice he was doing it for revenge.
There is no difference.
>And you want to know how they’re justified might makes right
Lmao. Josh is such a meanie for wiping out the subhumans, but the legion slaughtering civilians for the crime of violating the laws of a country they aren't party to or located in? That's just "might makes right!". Literally insane. Plus the legion can't even beat a weak and overextended expiditionary force of the NCR, even right next to Arizona, some "might".
>For a good person these need not be different
You have to make him realize it he doesn’t and won’t come to this conclusion on his own
>There is no difference
There is especially when you’re using the person as an example of morality
>Lmao. Josh is such a meanie for wiping out the subhumans
Are you just incapable of arguing like an adult? Do you need to strawman constantly I never said him doing it is bad I said the reason was bad which is important when you’re using him as an example of morality and especially since he is responsible for what is happening in the first place. Like I said you’re trying to deflect by moving away from the legion by using this situation that wasn’t even being argued in the fist place because you have nothing. Also another example that you haven’t played the game is that you’ve said this twice despite the fact that the Legion is winning and will win without outside interference. Maybe if you spent less time crying about the legion and more time playing the game you’d know this Pablo.
>You have to make him realize it he doesn’t and won’t come to this conclusion on his own
I dunno why you keep insisting that the pussy baby ending is the real one or otherwise more legit than letting him kill the bastard or doing it yourself
>There is
No, there isn't.
>Do you need to strawman constantly I never said him doing it is bad I said the reason was bad
It isn't. Your argument doesn't make any fricking sense. Killing someone out of revenge for them doing something terrible to you personally is a good thing. The morally right thing. A duty, even.
>and especially since he is responsible for what is happening in the first place.
He didn't tell them to destroy the new canaanites and he didn't tell them to come frick up Zion
>despite the fact that the Legion is winning
Except it isn't, which you would know if you played more than the fricking tutorial. Literally the only battle in the entire war which the legion have won is setting off a dirty bomb in camp searchlight, a pyrrhic victory which not only cost the lives of legionnaires, but has rendered the most direct route from Cottonwood to the NCR unusable. They can't even push into fricking Forlorn Hope. You think the legion is strong and winning because that's how they present themselves, because that's their culture. But when you actually look at the facts, their efforts are pathetic, their plans indirect and desperate. Because they simply do not have the means to force a real country to even move its foot.
>I dunno why you keep insisting that the pussy baby ending is the real one
There is no canon ending but nice cope, you have nothing and are just embarrassing yourself trying throw words back at me because you’ve spent the last two hours crying.
>No, there isn't
There is and I’ve already explained it but if all you have is childish tit for tat then I think you’re done.
>It isn't
It is learn English.
>Your argument doesn't make any fricking sense. Killing someone out of revenge for them doing something terrible to you personally is a good thing
We’re not arguing about the deed we’re arguing his moral fiber pay attention.
>He didn't tell them to destroy the new canaanites and he didn't tell them to come frick up Zion
Being this much of a lorelet. Play the game and you’ll know the answer he even says it himself.
>Except it isn't
It is the NCR are on the backfires have lost multiple bases and settlements and have suffered massive losses and morale is so low that troopers are openly talking about suicide. There’s a spy in their main base feeding intel on a daily basis who also destroys the monorail if he isn’t stopped. Not to mention one of the main leaders is so fricking convinced they’ll lose he’s actively sabotaging the war effort just to quicken the end. The NCR is losing there is no doubt about that like I’ve said countless time now play the game and stop being a weepy homosexual.
>There is no canon ending but nice cope
You're the one that keeps insisting the end where you talk him down is the right one.
>There is and I’ve already explained it
No, you just stamp your feet. Righteous revenge and justice are the same thing.
>It is learn English
The Hispanic says, while continuing to refuse to use punctuation.
>We’re not arguing about the deed we’re arguing his moral fiber
How good or bad an act is is determined entirely by its intended consequences. He does good things, ergo he is good.
>Being this much of a lorelet. Play the game and you’ll know the answer he even says it himself.
Of course he understands it wouldn't have happened if he didn't make the legion. That doesn't make the white legs not responsible for their own actions.
>It is the NCR are on the backfires have lost multiple bases and settlements and have suffered massive losses and morale is so low that troopers are openly talking about suicide. There’s a spy in their main base feeding intel on a daily basis who also destroys the monorail if he isn’t stopped. Not to mention one of the main leaders is so fricking convinced they’ll lose he’s actively sabotaging the war effort just to quicken the end.
And yet... nothing. The line holds. Searchlight holds back the legion even better as a radioactive hell hole. The monorail enables quick foot traffic between camp mcarran and the strip, and has no strategic value. Hanlon's disruptions are a minor inconvinience. Dead sea can't muster enough force to take forlorn hope even after months of sieging. The difference in morale between the two is based on one thing alone, one group is honest, the other propped up by lies. And this is just the expiditionary force! Nevada isn't even NCR territory. You allude to Nipton, but the thing about Nipton is, it's not NCR. Pretty much none of the mojave is. You see the legion do a terrorist attack against a third party as a publicity stunt and are impressed by their strength?
>You're the one that keeps insisting the end where you talk him down is the right one
Strawman, never said it was the “right one” just said that’s when you hear why he’s doing
>No, you just stamp your feet
I didn’t and now it’s “righteous revenge” larping and moving the goalpost
>The Hispanic says, while continuing to refuse to use punctuation
You say that but you went quiet when I called you out twice also you’ve shown you can’t read proper English or know what words mean. But nice deflection Pablo.
>How good or bad an act is is determined entirely by its intended consequences
Not when you’re arguing that he’s a good person, which you are so cut the shit.
>Of course he understands it wouldn't have happened if he didn't make the legion
It also wouldn’t have happened if he left New Canaan, and don’t fricking try it I never said the White Legs weren’t responsible.
>And yet... nothing. The line holds
Barely and they know it so your point is moot
>monorail enables quick foot traffic between camp mcarran and the strip, and has no strategic value
Considering that the Strip and Vegas is Caesar’s main target defending it is important.
>Hanlon's disruptions are a minor inconvinience
He’s fricking with the communication and supply network that shit is huge. Not to mention if the leader of one of the branches of your military is actively sabotaging things then shit isn’t going well
>The difference in morale between the two is based on one thing alone, one group is honest, the other propped up by lies
Doesn’t matter one is suicidal while the other isn’t which is important when you’re fighting a war.
>Nevada isn't even NCR territory
Never said it was but they’re occupying it and trying to annex it. Also if this is your way of trying to bring up Nipton to do some more moralgayging then you’re out of luck Nipton was full of garbage and even Ghost acknowledges this.
>just said that’s when you hear why he’s doing
But he only says this if you convince him to show mercy. He contradicts this statement if you tell him to kill. What you are quoting is him giving a cowardly justification for listening to you.
>larping and moving the goalpost
You're just spewing meaningless buzzwords
>You say that but you went quiet when I called you out twice also you’ve shown you can’t read proper English or know what words mean.
I directly refuted you, did you expect me to continue to do so, or just forget? Doesn't really matter. At any rate, pussies who type like middle schoolers should not call others "ESL".
>Not when you’re arguing that he’s a good person,
Says who? Good people do good things, and bad people evil. It's that simple. We are what we do.
>and don’t fricking try it I never said the White Legs weren’t responsible.
Then why bring up Joshua's guilt when I said they deserved to die?
>Barely
The legion have made no progress
>Considering that the Strip and Vegas is Caesar’s main target defending it is important.
Why? What's the worst that could happen, they kill house? The NCR wants him dead anyway. Vegas is a hole.
>He’s fricking with the communication and supply network that shit is huge.
The rangers treat it with mild confusion and bemusment.
>one is suicidal while the other isn’t which is important when you’re fighting a war.
One is depressed and the other charges machine guns with lawnmower blades, maybe don't throw stones regarding suicide.
>Also if this is your way of trying to bring up Nipton to do some more moralgayging then you’re out of luck Nipton was full of garbage and even Ghost acknowledges this.
You said "settlements were lost", implying the destruction of nipton was somehow a slight against the NCR. But by the way, you don't get to murder a whole town for being a sleezy pitstop, psycho.
Play the game Pablo
>inb4 no argument
Already gave you one and have been giving it. You’re just acting obtuse and pretending not to know what I’m talking about because you have nothing left.
I accept your concession, self concious spic
Nothings been conceded, you haven’t refuted or given a counter to anything I’ve said so far and have just been deflecting and strawmanning. While also proving you haven’t played the game.
>all this
Anon you can like the NCR while admitting they're royally fumbling things at the start of the game.
Obviously. But a thousand times better than the legion. Plus it can be improved. A stronger, more competent legion would be even worse. But then if they were smarter, maybe they'd be less barbaric, idk.
Also it's not a strawman moron, you're the one defending the legion
remove it
Get this, instead of dressing in FOOTBALL gear, they dress in BASEBALL GEAR!! WOOOOW
This seems more like something Bethesda Fallout would do unironically.
make it so that searchlight was a town under occupation rather than a radioactive ruin. show that life there is tightly controlled but otherwise peaceful, throw a few powder gangers on crosses outside the town. it should be a contrast between the free but in chaos primm and the slave but safe searchlight. instead it's just "durr we warcrime harder than anyone else"
Why does Caesar have no offspring or sex slaves?
Autism
>never ask a post-war tribal leader who enforces harsh gender roles the sex of his lover
Killing all the old women (26+) in the mojave, enslaving every female below the age of 25
Homosexuality is punishable by death in the Legion
Well the actual Caesar was a man of the people and an effective leader. You could argue that Negan from TWD is more like Caesar than Caesar from FNV
I don't know what the autistic shitflinging is about, but all I have to say is that the raider problem in the Mojave is almost entirely the NCR's fault.
>Powder Gangers from NCRCF
>Jackals and Vipers were raiders that the NCR pushed from California into the Mojave
>BoS (technically not raiders, but effectively the same for travellers) pushed out of California by the NCR
>the Great Khans pushed out of California
>the Fiends, while technically homegrown, exist as the result of a flourishing drug trade supplied almost entirely by the Great Khans
In conclusion, almost all the responsibility for the raider problem rests on the NCR and a little bit rests on the Followers for teaching the Khans how to make drugs.
A Legion companion and more legion territory in the game
To the east of the colorado River is Legion territory and it's quite large, but 85% of it is not accessable to you. Very likely they'd have a proper city and encampments over there with actual people and traders if given more time.
All those groups would be crushed in a week if it were not for the Legion. The legion is engaging in a gurella campaign against the NCR, and holding up the majority of their troops in a few bases. It's the Legion causing the lack of security in the region. the NCR has to fight EVERYONE or at least keep them in check, while the Legion can hyper focus on the NCR.
the vaults have typically 10mm SMG for security if I remember plus security armor. They tend to not have energy weapons.
This was a control vault so I would probably have more than the usual.
actually finish their questline
>More companions
>More quests about taking over territory, assassinating key figures, flushing out spies, making minor factions take Legions side ect
>Finish cut content about visiting Legion lands and more
>Make it possible to benefit the Legion trough other DLCs
cut content about visiting Legion lands and more
Should have been one of the DLCs, and you have two paths:
>side with legion and fight their enemies
>side with the legion enemies
>All determined by your Legion rep.
>edge of Legion territory, fighting a war with some tribals
>some NCR spies and special forces embedded with the tribals under cover
>have legion cities and trading posts, and regular people who mostly say positive things about how the Legion brought order and safety, or how the new stability lead to longer trade routes
Dead Money and Old World Blues add frick all to the overall story, so it could take one of their places.
>Honest Hearts
>Legion territory
>NCR or Brotherhood territory
That's likely how it should have played out. but the faction system makes implimenting this too complicated. But the most baffling thing is you could side with the legion, then aide Joshua Graham even though he's persona non grata to Legion. Caesar should give you a mission to asssassinate him.
>Don't have your first encounter be them slaughtering an entire town and the 2nd being them dirtybombing another and THEN third being "oh yeah they enslaved my wife btw"
>Have nipton be a town that recently came under legion rule to actually show what it's like add a quest or two for the player to help the legion or hinder like helping the former doctor smuggle his chems or ratting him out or maybe there is some opposed against the legion and they ask you to go in since you aren't one of them and could pass as an resident
Make the senior members cleared for using guns and technology and drugs, and make them have a more naturalistic / Darwinistic bent to then instead of a more spiritual one. Essentially eugenicists. They can still be all that Rome shit, but the actual structure should be pragmatic / eugenic. They should explicitly keep the slavery.
Keeping the slavery is fine, but it should be more pragmatic and less moronic. Treating your domestic slaves like shit just because you can is inefficient and unbecoming of an ostensibly noble people who claim to be culturally above the tribes they conquered.
That's the problem, the lower ones aren't noble. For all their talk, they're only kept in line because of hierarchy. The common soldier being able to be rough with slaves legitimizes the overarching ideology.
add a town