I am a Bloodborne lore sage. The original Bloodborne and Souls lore sage. It has been some time, perhaps a year or more. Ask me about Bloodborne lore.
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I am a Bloodborne lore sage. The original Bloodborne and Souls lore sage. It has been some time, perhaps a year or more.
what do you think of the theory that the Abhorrent Beast in the catacombs is Laurence in the waking world, mistakenly searching for Queen Yharnam in Pthumeria, thinking she is the key to ending the nightmare?
I think you mean the Bloodletting Beast. I do agree that the Bloodletting Beast is clearly Laurence, or was at least intended to be him, but I don't think there is a strong case to be made that he is, or was, looking for Queen Yharnam. I can't talk about the evidence one way or the other because there is none.
we fight him 2 times, the second after he got beheaded being closer to the queen. it's clear he was heading down there, and we know he had left gehrman as a temporal surrogate for the MP
I think its more likely there are several Bloodletting Beasts like there are several Cleric Beasts. Laurence is exclusively the headless one in the bottom of the labyrinth
Have you read the paleblood hunt?
If so what do you think of it?
I have read it. I think it was important for its time, but almost all of the information in there is wrong, and it's unfortunate that some of it has stuck around.
>we fight him 2 times, the second after he got beheaded being closer to the queen
If the order was reversed, would you assume he was running away from the queen?
>and we know he had left gehrman as a temporal surrogate for the MP
I do not think this is true, the Great Ones are lured by special babies and Gehrman is not special or a baby. Sometimes people assume that because Great Ones are so advanced they see old men as babies or something, but I don't see any reason to believe that.
I'd say it was streamlined, but that's pretty much it with the exception of Ebrietas.
I'm not sure what they mean by "pointless." I find the game compelling, and that's all I want, so I guess I don't agree that it's pointless. Though I will say that I don't think it makes sense to think of it as binary 'dream' and 'not dream'. It's more like reality being invaded by a supernatural world.
The official stuff like the guides and bestiary are all worthwhile, I have never read the comics but I strongly dislike the look of what I've seen.
Gherman is literally a baby in Kosm's reality where he's the Orphan.
That isn't Gehrman, it's the Orphan of Kos. It clearly has design similarities (like the cry) with Gehrman, but this does not mean it is him in some literal way. Personally I read it more like Gehrman is 'shackled' to the sins of his past in the same way the Doll is, and the nightmare figures that are most representative of these 'sins' are a psychic burden. I do not like this answer very much, but the DLC is just like that.
The hunt has been going on for "countless ages", but it is becoming progressively worse in Yharnam. The hunt that we engage in is the worst it has ever been due to the influence of the Mensis ritual and the beckoning of the moon, but most hunts are no where near as dire so in the past there has been a possibility of recovery.
>i would assume he is moving upwards, yeah.
Fair enough.
>he is being held hostage by MP
I don't see him as a hostage, I think he's just required to be there until the scourge is dealt with. I understand why people might be attracted to the idea that Laurence is supposed to give a baby to the Moon Presence because it fills out Gehrman and Laurence's story in a more complete manner, but I don't think the evidence is compelling or resonant enough.
Too literal an interpretation. Start thinking like Miyazaki: themes and symbolism over something that makes concrete sense.
You're correct but these morons are too "smart" to believe such a blatant and obvious thing
>If the order was reversed, would you assume he was running away from the queen?
i would assume he is moving upwards, yeah. however the fact he appears once as a regular beast and then as a beheaded one implies a delay in time in which he got deeper towards the queen
>I do not think this is true, the Great Ones are lured by special babies and Gehrman is not special or a baby
he is being held hostage by MP, presumably until she gets her special baby from Lawrence since gehrman cries for him to hurry up. this is an instrumental plot point for the story and the endings
the story is not cohesive and was clearly chopped apart and pieced together multiple times mid-development
there is nothing there to master
I've had people tell me without irony that they believe the entire game's story is pointless because it's "all just a dream" even when I told them that the "dreams" in Bloodborne aren't literal dreams but more like alternate dimensions. What are your thoughts on this?
God it's this sperg. Were you the one who went on arguing for hours about yharnham being real despite it taking place in a false reality? Moon manipulates time to create an infinite night, when the "curse" is broken you wake up in yharnham like nothing happened because it literally didn't, get over it.
>yharnham being real despite it taking place in a false reality?
Show me one single piece of evidence that says the Yharnham you spend most of the game in is a "false reality"
The moon presence influence over the world you fricking idiot. See the "sages" reply, despite it being literal obvious answers so far. What's funny is if you are actually that same anon you spent hours only to basically keep giving answers that BTFO of your own case and have malded over it for so long that you're now whining itt.
>The moon presence influence over the world you fricking idiot
So what, the moon presence put everyone in the town to sleep and now they're all having a collective dream?
It's not that kind of dream bro. The dreamers are the Great Ones, with humans acting as hosts for the dreams.
See that's the thing. We probably agree with eachother but are using the word "dream" in difference senses. The "dreams" in Bloodborne such as the Hunter's Nightmare, the Hunter's Dream, and the Nightmare of Mensis all function like dreams in The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath. They're more like alternate dimensions than literal dreams.
>Yeah not like that's ever happened in Bloodborne lore before huh chump?
No clue what you're talking about
Mensis shared a collective dream. You've been BTFO again itt anyways and, you disingenuous c**t, I'm pretty sure last time I was arguing dreams as an alternate dimension after you subtly pointed it out and BTFO of yourself. Just hilarious you've clearly spent all this time thinking about it at points when it never even crossed my mind lul.
>Mensis shared a collective dream.
Yes but it's not a literal dream, it's more like an alternate dimension. I have no clue what the rest of your schizobabble is about.
That they collectively dreamed up. The games events aren't "pointless" in the sensd you had fun playing it but the actions are pointless because you wake up in Yharnham, specfically in a place where literal giants were walking around, because the events in yharnham aren't really real and if you're the same c**t from like a year ago who was arguing against that, who's clearly been thinking about the debate ever since, then you literally BTFO of yourself by admitting yharnham is a dream. The endings are: wake up in the real world like nothing happened or carry on in a dreamland perpetuating the false reality. Pretty sure you're the same guy and posted the image of the Fallout 4 "I'm not discussing ghoul in a fridge in a game about supermutants" meme or whatever the frick it is
Events aren't pointless because they can still affect base reality. Even in the Yarnham Sunrise ending, do you really think that what happened through the night, killing many 'gods' including a newborn, has no affect on 'the real world'?
Where do you have a single shred of proof that it does? You get the transfusion, he says "all a mere bad dream", you start hallucinating a werewolf, wake up in the false reality with the same hair brained shit you saw falling under transfusion, 'actually' wake up in yharnham and nothing is there.... like it was all a mere bad dream holy shit.
>it had to have been all a dream because there's werewolves and giants everywhere
you realise it's a fictional univere right?
It sounds like you have as much proof of nothing happening as I do of something happening. None because that ending of the game doesn't give any information other than the Hunter waking up during the day.
I'm not sure why you so stubbornly stick to the most boring interpretation possible.
*waking up on the street with no beasts
More proof than you and 100% you're the same guy from a year ago who's been malding ever since, what a pathetic loser lol.
Damn dude fukken GOTTEM who will he become in your next post, that homie is like a Skyrim character creation screen
He used the exact phrase "pointless" which was what he took issue with a year ago. It's the same guy fr all fax no printer skull emojer.
And the events in yharnham are taking place in the moon presence fake reality ergo Yharnham doesn't real look like it does during the events of the game.
You fricking wake up in that part of Cathedral Ward with the 2 giants clanging around jfc.
Stay mad.
Epic dude that guy is the only person on Ganker who says that particular phrase fukken TOLD
In the literal same "sage" thread, took my meds today so it's legit him on god.
Holy shit read sage anons reply, the moon presence literally creates an infinite night. Seek paleblood, in Miyazaki's worse btw, meant seek the Mensis ritual who thought they were communing with great ones but actually made contact (whatever you want to call it) with moon presence and when you break the Mensis ritual ("lest this night go on forever") you break the flow of night. Butchered it but this is nearly verbatim what Miyazaki said in an interview.
Source?
>the moon presence literally creates an infinite night.
The game starts off at morning doesn't it? Then over the course of the game it gets darker and darker until night comes.
No, homie you can see the moon from square one.
You fricking moron the latter statement is in regards to the game having mechanical basis in reality and if it being a dream let them go whacky during development. At best he literally poses the question "is it all a mere bad dream, thats for you to decide depending on your ending" FYI if you pig anything other than Yharnham sunrise you're literally still in a dream much like you are in your little delusion irl.
"Ah, so you're asking if areas like Yharnam are meant to be reality? Well, that has some implications within the story. Yharnam at night, with the Hunters and all, truly is a nightmare-like world, but is it actually a nightmare? Or was it? That kind of thing. I think different gamers will have different interpretations of that, especially depending on which ending they reach. That's something deliberate on our part."
He's literally saying "if you think it's all a dream it's all a dream, if you don't it's not"
He's just telling you to interperet the game however yu want and you guys are using his words as evidence to say the opposite, that there's only one interpretation.
Buddy, this is based on Lovecraft...in which your dreams really are different worlds you visit and can only be reached by men by astral projecting via dreams as otherwise it's beyond the power of mortal man.
I know that, I'm the guy who was arguing for that intepretation in the first place specifically because of the reason you listed. Bloodborne is heavily inspired by Lovecraft, so the way dreams work in Bloodborne can likely be thought of as the same way they work in Lovecraft's writings. However it is still a fact that Miyazaki deliberately makes stuff like this vague because he wants the player to interperet whatever meaning they want. There truly is no right answer and that's by design.
Now post the interviewers question to that you disingenuous frick.
I meant post the interviewers question to the "basis in reality"
>We think creating this story where you're working inside of dreams allows you a lot of creative freedom. You can do things you normally couldn't do in reality. But if you go too far with that, it may all just get too crazy and players wouldn't find it fun. How do you manage that kind of balance, between reality and dreams?
This one? What's your point?
Because in the two other endings you are literally inside of a dream. The "basis in reality" was after the interviewer asked him if the game being in a dream allowed them to make shit up and he's like "no in that sense it has basis in reality"
Same thing. Mensis literally locked their conciousness inside the cages to create a dream. They are mummified because they literally went into some deep meditative like state. You could argue that as the "hunter" went under transfusion he both fell asleep, dreamt and entered a dream plane of existence.
Oh god you sad frick it's really obvious the interviewer is asking this from a development/technicall pov, "hey so because the game takes place in a dream did that mean you could make the hunter fly" eg
Unronically this...
The Hunter's Dream is not literally a dream
Could be.
>fake reality
Source?
>You fricking wake up in that part of Cathedral Ward with the 2 giants clanging around jfc.
The church giants are used by the church on nights of the hunt, of course they wouldn't still be there after the night of the hunt is over
In Bloodborne (which is heavily influenced by lovecraft), dreams are layers of reality just like the dream related stories by lovecraft.
You need to stop obsessing over some anon you had an argument with a year ago, I'm not even the same guy you were arguing with in this thread. Many thousands of people use Ganker, you need to let go anon
Wrong, everyone who disagrees with me is one person because my opinion is the correct one.
I'm sorry, do you seriously believe that the Yharnam Sunrise ending is you literally waking up from a dream you had while sleeping? Like during the whole game your dude was just curled up on the pavement in the middle of the city snoozing?
What the frick else is it meant to imply, you're guy gets into these dream dimensions, goes to the hunters dream after mergos wet nurse then just miraculously wakes up in cathedral wards like durr. Maybe he was literally drunk on blood the whole time and wound up there but there aren't any hunters killing thoses beasts so it makes no sense for you to 'literally wake up' in cathedral ward with no beasts around unless the whole thing was exaggerated by the moon prescences influence.
I said somethinglike that last time and the twat posted the ghoul in the fridge twitter screen cap meme.
>there aren't any hunters killing thoses beasts so it makes no sense for you to 'literally wake up' in cathedral ward with no beasts around
How do you know there's no more beasts around after you wake up? The Yharnam Sunrise cutscene is like two seconds long and shows practically nothing of the state of the city.
Yeah not like that's ever happened in Bloodborne lore before huh chump? But it doesn't actually matter if that's the case in yharnham or not.
Are external sources like the books and comics worth to read for free or is it complete tripe?
it seems the residents of yharnam are used to the night of the hunt, as if this has happened multiple times before? how is that possible
Not OP but what do you think Gherman is doing? The Hunter's Dream is a safe haven so hunters can sort this shit out whenever there's a bad hunt.
not the "sage", but yharnamites are regular blood drinkers, which occasionally produces beasts, and this has happened for a long time in both Yharnam and Cainhurst, so they regularly have had to fight/expel beasts from the city
when the healing church was formed, the beast problem became worse and proper hunts had to be regularly organised, as implied by the hunter chief emblem
Every full moon, hoonta.
have you read the Moon Presence = Kos (MP=K) theory on yharnam scholars? i think it makes some interesting points but i never see it discussed
Many years ago, I don't agree with it and I'm not a fan of 'this character has a secret identity' type theories unless it's pretty clearly foreshadowed by the text.
When you wake up in the hypogean gaol you hear choir music. Is that music actually something your character hears? Cause it's the only time outside of bosses that music plays.
Presumably, yes, as you get closer to the source it becomes louder.
it's actually a choir out there in the city (THE Choir?) singing into the night. the voices start muffled in the dungeon then get clearer as you reach the surface. when you're finally outside in the street, you can hear the deeper male voices joining in. not the sage BTW, this was just one of my favorite bloodborne moments ever so i fixated on it a bit. the song is called 'hail the nightmare'
What's the deal with blood?
Blood is a catalyst that allows the soul to physically manifest itself.
what's the most interesting thing that happened in the history of Yharnam, for example secret societies, blood rituals, cults, etc? i haven't played it yet so can i get the quick rundown
I'm sorry but I don't want to answer this question. It's too open and time consuming and it won't lead to interesting discussion. I hope you enjoy the game when you get around to it.
there's no QRD honestly, discovering the history of yharnam is a big part of the atmosphere. i guess the QRD is
>giant city built on top of even more giant labyrinth
>scholars explore labyrinth
>find cosmic blood from incomprehensible lovecraftian being
>scholars study blood and learn it has miracle healing properties
>scholars disagree how to continue
>one group breaks off and starts offering the blood to the city residents as medicine/drugs/booze/all the above
>the gain power and essentially take control of the city
>continue experimenting with the blood and other methods
>this causes very bad juju throughout the city
>player character shows up and gets caught in the whirlwind
>cosmic blood
Wasn't the said blood already infected and caused the cataclysm of the pthumerians in the first place?
True GreatOldOneism has never been tried
Doll paizuri and nakadashi
Wtf even happens like is it all just a collective dream or something why does the night of the hunt never ends why does the protagonist not die but other hunters do, why don't people just leave the city?
The protagonist is sustained by the dream (ie the Moon Presence) which is why they're immortal. Other hunters in the game mention that they used to be in the same circumstances as the player but it's implied that they took the "Yharnam Sunrise" ending so to speak and are no longer sustained by the dream and thus mortal again. The night of the hunt is probably being extended indefinitely by either the Moon Presence or the Mensis Ritual or maybe both.
When 'gods' dream it creates an alternate dimension that draws people, such as the city of Yarnham, into it. You don't die because you are connected to The Hunter's dream created by the Moon Presence. Other hunters mention being connected to it in past hunts but no longer, so death is death to them.
What was the fricking point of the hunt and why did our character come to the city? Also what's with the werewolf at the start and who incinerates it?
Your character had some unspecified illness and heard of the blood healing of Yarnham. At the start of the game you get a transfusion of tainted blood. The werewolf is likely a metaphor of the beast transformation about to take hold. Then Moon Presence steps in to take you into the fold thus somehow protecting you from the negative effects of Yarnham blood.
O mighty sage, if thou art emboldened, might thy answer the eternal question? PC port when?
The Tarnished Archeologist is doing Bloodborne now and there's a lot of good shit in his videos.
Eh kinda. That guy must not have been around for the whole DS3 controversy where everyone was obsessing over the meaning of a statue and it's sword only to find out it's just a reused asset. He really needs to learn to take art and architecture assets with a grain of salt.
oh no DaS III
meanwhile pendant speculation in DaS
No, he covers that stuff in his ER videos. He's aware.
>everyone was obsessing over the meaning of a statue and it's sword only to find out it's just a reused asset
that's basically paleblood hunt in a nutshell
The damage Redgrave alone has done to the Bloodborne lore community is irreperable
Valtr is the character, do you agree lore sage?
Let's recap, the entire story of Bloodborne all takes place in a dream because:
>in the cutscene at the beginning of the game the blood minister says "you may think it all a mere bad dream"
>in the cutscene for one of the three endings an enemy that was there during the game is no longer there
>
So everyone agrees with this undeniable evidence right?
Brb about to post some right BTFO evidence lmao.
www.bloodborne-wiki.com/2017/01/interviews.html
"Ah, so you're asking if areas like Yharnam are meant to be reality? Well, that has some implications within the story. Yharnam at night, with the Hunters and all, truly is a nightmare-like world, but is it actually a nightmare? Or was it? That kind of thing. I think different gamers will have different interpretations of that, especially depending on which ending they reach. That's something deliberate on our part. This might be going off-topic a bit, but I like reading about how gamers interpret or think about the story and world of my games. So I don't want to rob them of that space for open interpretation."
"I think you're absolutely right. It'd be no fun if you could just do whatever you wanted in dreams. So in this game, the setting of Yharnam is essentially based in reality. It's so dark and dismal that it's entirely possibly to interpret it as an actual nightmare in the end, but this isn't some kind of dream world where anything you can picture will come to life."
At best your "evidence" says Miyazaki likes to leave it vague so it's up to the player's interpretation. But really he's leaning towards Yharnam not being a dream.
Nah, he's just saying that the dream has real-world mechanics instead of "anything goes"
"So in this game, the setting of Yharnam is essentially based in reality."
Yes, that's him saying it has the mechanics of the real world. You're just trying to twist the interpretation of it.
>It's so dark and dismal that it's entirely possibly to interpret it as an actual nightmare in the end, but this isn't some kind of dream world where anything you can picture will come to life.
>on Ganker just in time to see a pair of autists resume hostilities in a heated bloodborne debate after both of them seethed through a year-long armistice
Please tell me what the frick the Moon Presence is and what it was doing
Why did using the paleblood end up devolving some people once it was used too much? Why did the Church then dope the city with more of it on purpose after knowing it was bad?
>knowing
because they knew it was bad but could also be "good", sure some people turned into beasts (until Your hunt) but 90% of the time it cured any and all aliment
The Moon Presence is an eldritch entity, it's motivations are intentionally unknowable. We know all Great Ones yearn for a surrogate, and the reason the moon is physically getting closer to Yharnam is because the Moon Presence is being drawn to Mergo's cries. That's the closest thing we get to an in-game motivation for it. It also seems like it just wants to collect as many blood echoes as possible for some reason, and that's why it created the hunters and makes them immortal. When you level up at the doll you're basically donating blood echoes to the Moon Presence in exchange for power.
the moon presence feeds on paleblood, and manipulated events to bring mergo into being in order to feed upon it. at the end you're being help captive to maintain the hunter's dream so that more hunters can be recruited to maintain the MP's cycle of bringing forth Great One pregnancies and feeding on their children during the hunt.
Paleblood is synonymous with the Moon Presence. The Moon Presence feeds on blood echoes. You're held captive so that you can collect more and more blood echoes for it, that's why Gherman tells you to "just go out and kill beasts, don't think about it too hard" and the notes telling you to not do this are all hidden. What do you think the doll's purpose is? The simplest explanation is just what she does: collect blood echoes. When you get near the end of the game she has a line that goes "your presence somehow soothes, I can feel the ancient echoes coursing through you" she's like a lightning rod for blood echoes.
The great ones don't feed on children. It's pretty much the opposite, all great ones yearn for a surrogate child. That's what Mergo is, a child being used as bait for the Moon Presence.
In Isz root chalices, why do the little one's trap fail if you can see the exit of the teleport?
was horse faced boss a good guy?
he arguably was at one point, but he's a lunatic by the time you fight him. that's why vid rel is so cool, it's a once-honoured warrior somewhat regaining his humanity. he goes from a psycho sperg spazzing out to a disciplined fighter throwing feints and combos at you.
It’s a dream, it wasn’t even him, just the corrupted idea of him
No it's definitely him. The Hunter's Nightmare isn't a dream, it's hell. Ludwig is both being punished for his sins and punishing other sinners.
so then why does he even attack you after regaining his humanity?
you're in the hunter's nightmare when you fight him, where blood-drunk crazy hunters get dragged as punishment for being bloodthirsty psychos. i shouldn't have said he regains his humanity, maybe 'lucidity' would have worked better there
No, he was a bloodthirsty fanatic in life hence the form of his arena which eternally reminds of him of his guilt
Are the beasts supposed to represent Black folk and the kin supposed to represent asian/whites? Like a brain vs brawn kinda evolution? I thought miyazaki was a genius for this.
What happened if Gwynevere needed to take a huge shit? I didn't see any toilets in Anor Londo
What does she eat?
The real Gwynevere was big but not that big
She would sit on the railing and dangle her immense bum over the bannister overlooking the streets below and loose her chute for all in the kingdom to see.
redpill me on the original boss order and names
it seems a lot of the names got switched and the amigdala was supposed to originally be the final boss. I also heard somebody say that the upper cathedral ward in the lumen garden had a unused trigger for the moon presence
Rom and Ebreitas' names were switched late in development and in doing so Miyazaki caused the biggest lore moronationfest known to man
>Source?
It was revealed to me in a dream
I thought ebrietas was originally called kos in the alpha
so why is bloodbornes world so fricked up? why are people beasts and why do weird ass monsters exist? what happened to humanity?
aliens
the vax
I need to make a bloodborne iceberg chart at some point for cut content and alpha content. I have a big google doc of a bunch of stuff already
anything I should add?
What is that
>All this arguing about dreams
I thought it was pretty obvious that dreams in BB aren't like real life dreams, but different layers of reality. I mean, if the Hunter fell asleep in the clinic and the dream was just a dream and nothing actually happened, why did he wake up in the middle of the street in the Sunrise ending?
sleepwalking
>The Dreamlands are for the most part a mirror-image of our waking universe, having, as far as can be determined, the same planets, stars, and other cosmic geographical features. However, there are numerous races, civilisations, and beings existing in the Dreamlands that do not exist in the waking universe, such as the Zoogs, Gugs, Ghasts, moon-beasts, and others.
>I mean, if the Hunter fell asleep in the clinic and the dream was just a dream and nothing actually happened, why did he wake up in the middle of the street in the Sunrise ending?
He was sleepwalking.
>but different layers of reality
kinda sorta, all those mensis scholars weren't actually transported to the nightmare and left their bodies behind in the physical(?) world which raises the question of how many werewolves had their way with us while we were spelunking the nightmare
>which raises the question of how many werewolves had their way with us while we were spelunking the nightmare
yeah what a horrible thought haha
>werewolves
>no wait aliens
>lovecraft references
>story tahts all a dream
>leaving everything vague and unfinished because miyazaki likes it that way
No one cares anymore, lore sage.
It's just sad that I randomly said in this exact thread a year ago that the events of the game are kind of pointless because you either wake up like nothing happened or stay in a dream and this moron has been thinking of the argument ever since. An argument where his biggest points were semantics.
Yeah, HE'S been thinking of the argument ever since...
homie I entered the thread out of sheer coincidence and see that post. At no point did he deny it wasn't him, Occams Razor.
Would you really believe him if he did deny it?
Described verbatim what I said a year ago, unless there's been a plethora of people saying the events of the game are pointless you might be the ones who need to take some meds.
Bollocks, I always loved fromsoft inventory icons and assumed they were art but wished they were renders of a model.
Yeah it's me, I admit it. You're still wrong.
No it's me, don't believe that guy
occam's razor states you are in need of meds
i care little for lore. however why does this cut moon presence look more higher quality than the one you can cheat to fight? mod?
This is all because anon is like "nooo it's not pointless I became a heckin wooorm."
post the punch
that pre-patch third cord in the workshop has some really interesting cut description lore that I always wonder why they cut
Wait do all the inventory icons have 3D renders?
nope. that was a 3d render of the third cord that was in the files for the DLC but goes unused for some reason
a lot of prepatch info isn't canon because they were still rewriting parts of the story in really late stages of development.
honestly the original lore sounded cooler. seems like a lot of the lore stuff that got changed was hit or miss
Miyazaki deliberately scrambles stuff just to make it more mysterious, DS3 is probably the biggest victim of these
What's the lore behind the floating statue in Old Yharman.
If you touch it you get transported to the world of the sixth archstone
Huge if real
Is the Yharnam the Hunter returns to in the wake up ending the real, non-dream one? If so, would the mc find it to be in complete ruins after all the events that actually transpired like the beast plague, Yahar'gul and greater ones kidnapping relevant people?
This entire thread has been having a flame war about exactly this question. The closest thing you'll get to an official answer is Miyazaki saying it's up to player interpretation.
>time is convoluted
Except from the fact in the two other endings you're definitely still in a dream. The only dispute is Yharnham Sunrise.
Idc either way he got BTFO again by multiple people, guess you gotta seethe about it for another year :^)
>Except from the fact in the two other endings you're definitely still in a dream.
The Hunter's Dream isn't literally a dream.
I'm not arguing semantics again lol. It's a dream, stew over the meaning of that by yourself.
It's a dream in the Lovecraft sense, not in the hallucinations while sleeping sense
Nah, could be that the hunters meditated in Ghermans workshop.
Dude he said he wasn't arguing.
Which Bloodborne hunter and beast is the most susceptible to weight gain?
https://files.catbox.moe/ylrzsj.png
Did Gehrman...y'know...with the doll?
Have you tried hitting her? That's not blood
he even alludes to it in dialogue
is this a stealth coomer thread?
It's a thread meant to contain one particular newbie who thinks everyone who says one word is the same person.
Oh I've definitely been here longer than you lol.
Why does Rally heal the player character and no one else can do that?
What's up with Mergo's Wet Nurse?
Some nightmare creature created by Mensis to guard Mergo. Some say it's a great one but I doubt it.
Created by? That's interesting, where does it say that?
It doesn't really say that anywhere. Sadly a lot of Bloodborne lore is speculative. If you want an explanation of what Mergo's wetnurse is without speculation, only based on in-game text, then there isn't one. I don't think any item descriptions or dialogue mention it. You can only look for an explanation by using the context. The context is it exists within the Nightmare of Mensis and fights you to protect Mergo, therefore the simplest explanation for Mergo's Wetnurse is that it's "some nightmare creature created by Mensis to guard Mergo"
If you're asking what Mensis is, it's basically a splinter faction of Byrgenwerth who are trying to use Mergo to summon the Moon Presence.
Eileen the Crow's stando
Is the doll formless Oedon whom finally successfully gets an offspring in the form of the hunter?
The doll is just a tool of the Moon Presence it doesn't really have it's own agenda.
Always figured the doll was some form of Great one, as it seemed poetic that the secret ending involved her becoming a mother. Something that other great ones failed to achieve through their forced impregnations.
I wish the game gave you the option to kill her.
I believe that the doll is basically animated by the moon presence's power so I kind of agree with how that's poetic but I think it still works without the doll being a great one.
I never related the doll to the moon presence as Blood is explicitly related to Formless Oedon, whereas the Moon Presence is Paleblood. Being able to channel blood echoes seems like a pretty unique ability only capable to be performed by a Great One, particularly one with a natural affinity to blood. Maybe it’s just all semantics though
I don't think Oedon is explicitly related to blood he's only ever described as a formless voice that seems to drive people crazy and make women pregnant with aliens.
look closely at blood dregs
Yes it's sperm, and?
>eileen implies she's seen the doll too
>seemingly escaped the dream
what the frick. I feel like I'm too moronic to understand the implications of this
She was used and dumped by the moon presence in one of the earlier hunts
Remember the ending where Gherman cuts your head off and you wake up? That's what happened to Eileen.
That would suggest we don't escape the dream for long
What do you mean? Why? Eileen never returns to it.
which is interesting since it implies that ending really doesn't let you wake up to "the real world" as much as it just frees you from the hunters dream and being unable to truly die
>as much as it just frees you from the hunters dream and being unable to truly die
That's exactly what it does but I don't see how it implies you didn't really wake up in "the real world"
sorry I meant that as more. "you're waking up but its still the same yarhnam and not some sort of true city like some people interpret that ending as"
Yes that's exactly what I believe too. The world you play in is "the real world" and the same world you wake up to in the Yharnam Sunrise ending. The only thing that changes is you're no longer immortal. It's not "all a dream" like some believe.
What are examples of objective errors Paleblood Hunt makes?
Why is there so much confusion on dreams and the future being? Isn’t Yharnam basically the real world “invaded” by Eldritch entities and influence during the night of the hunt. The hunters DREAM and Mensis NIGHTMARE are explicitly named as such.
Where does the game refer to The City of Dream Yharnam or The City of Nightmare Yharnam?
It always seemed like the Yharnam we play in is real and occurring, just being invaded by Eldritch shinanagins
Just let him mald bro, another year will go by and he still won’t be over it.