I believe the NCR to be the best New Vegas faction solely because they have the most related content. I would love for the Legion and House to be as fleshed out as the NCR, but they just aren't.
The Legion especially; if I play as an evil slaving Legion bastard I can't visit half the damn map.
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On the other hand most of the NCR content involves dealing with the Legion, they don't have much going on themselves
It's still content. The Legion have, what, five faction-specific quests? The NCR has 80% of the questing content.
>do all the ncr quests
>still do yes man or house
I feel like house with all the ncr quests done is best ending. Ncr doesnt crumble but new vegas is too strong to take on, so the ncr generates wealth and revenue and then some of that gets siphoned into vegas which has a figurehead that isnt 300 years behind in tech and has goals beyond just substisting and expanding a little
Doesn't House literally encourage you to help the NCR a lot? His plan still 100% counts on NCR winning the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, you just sorta pull a fast one on them at the 11th hour and hand control to House.
yeah, he loves the NCR, when they bleed money on him
>Legion - alright chuds
>House - Trumptards
>NCR - neoliberals
>Independent - based leftists
Don't bother replying, I'm right.
but i agree with you
>what if we let this mailman be a dictator?
Ya you are actually right.
i still find it funny how an unstoppable legend that changes the entire wasteland and has the ability to take on both the NCR and legion at hoover dam and launch nukes at them is just an angry mailman
NCR gives me more of a neocon vibe
Nah, the NCR are very centrist libs. They pretend to care about people but they’ll justify any death if the NCR profits. They’re very much saying “we need to make the work a better place.” and “the world isn’t fair, frick off” at the same time.
They literally spell it out that the NCR are 19th century Manifest Destiny expansionist America, they even have their own Gilded Age robber barons in the form of Brahmin Barons
So they’re libs. Lip service for the poor and funding for the wealthy.
Leftoids should be slain
True. Creators couldn’t put in a leftist option because the setting is systolic and leftists are objectively correct. Had to make you play the “lesser of evils” game with the Hoover dam.
When you're right, you're right.
Shill
I enjoy NCR and House. I feel like the Legion is fundamentally a flawed concept. Too goofy and on the nose aesthetically with the Roman larp, and hard to take seriously from a story perspective because it's too reliant on accepting Caesar as charismatic and intelligent as Colonel Kurtz for his origin to make much sense, which he really isn't. I really soured on the Legion because it feels like every character it has is trying way to hard to be a caricature of whatever sort of morality lesson the writers want to consider but then it immediately getting sabotaged by in game events because the writers are afraid anyone should take the Legion seriously.
>Hey what if Gender Equality isn't an effective survival strategy
>Here an Legionaire with a comically simple view on the matter
>But also here is a women in an arena defeating every man she fights
>Hey Military autocracy is a really effective method of securing trade routes
>Here's a merchant whose only purpose in the game is to talk about how great being a Legion merchant is.
>But also we have to have him talk about Lanius killing his pack Brahmin and not getting payed for it
Legion should have been developed from the same sensible and straightforward historical ideas of development that make the NCR so easy to understand. Instead of chasing after Caesars roman larp the Legion should have just followed the simple core concept of "What if the Wasteland Tribals started banding together".
Their ridiculousness is why I like the Legion. I wish I could enjoy them more, but they were designed to hate, so I guess the devs never assumed anyone would side with them and gave you no reason to.
>but they were designed to hate
Then why don’t I hate them? I don’t look at them and see people I’m supposed to hate, that’s the most surface level take of them possible.
>I personally don't hate them therefore they must be good
Because you're a chud.
The Legion should have just been Plains Indians coming back from the grave to frick up the Ghost of America that is the NCR. Part of the reason I hate Caesar is because he's hopped up on his own moronic fantasies instead of just being a tribal leader with sensible goals and concerns and understandable limitations on his power and influence. Instead he's an all powerful autocrat because he taught one group of tribals how clean their guns.
I have to imagine that is what the 80s were like starting out. An offshoot of maybe Lakota, Iroquois or any of the other nations using the global reset and their relatively isolated reservations as a staging point to move along the wastes. Provided that they didn't piss away their casino earning on mouthwash and made steps towards self sustainability prior to the bombs falling. Those that didn't maybe took the path that the White Legs or the Fiends did to keep their old way of life going.
I think a native american faction would be pretty cool. Could just be a small community trying to keep their way of life in-tact. Maybe subvert the noble savage trope where they're pretty modernized and put off by tribals. Would fit Fallout's humor tbh
>because it's too reliant on accepting Caesar as charismatic and intelligent as Colonel Kurtz for his origin to make much sense, which he really isn't
The big problem with that aspect is that you meet Caesar at his lowest. He's sickly, he's still reeling after his failed attempt at the dam, and his best attempt at expanding past Cottonwood Cove is taking a tiny little town, then being stuck in a stalemate with nearby Forlorn Hope.
You never actually see the Caesar people speak of with your own eyes. The NCR's main problem in the Mojave is bureaucracy and General Oliver's strategy of holding their positions and waiting to see what Caesar does, and the Courier can help out by being an ally that operates outside of that system and just doing what the veteran NCR Rangers would do if they weren't held back by orders. On the flip side, there's just no way Caesar as we see him in game would successfully make his second run at the dam if he didn't have the all powerful protagonist dropped into his lap.
>On the flip side, there's just no way Caesar as we see him in game would successfully make his second run at the dam if he didn't have the all powerful protagonist dropped into his lap
Lanius is basically Caesar's Courier and it's painfully obvious Lanius would rip the NCR in half during the second battle without protagonist intervention.
>General Oliver's strategy
or "tunnel vision" as i call it
Caesar builds the legion up as his personal weapon to defeat the NCR. He talks about how he wants to change the legion into an actual society rather than a bunch of tribal warriors in hockey pads, once the legion does what it's designed to do.
But he really only talks about "oh I'll do that later," not any details on what that society could look like. I think that would actually make the legion interesting since Caesar himself is the only real interesting part of the faction as it currently is. But he'd never get the chance to make that society if the courier doesn't pull the tumor out of his head.
Caesar making the tribals completely convert to his little fantasy of a roman army and his idea of them just turning into his ideal once he has Vegas is my least favorite aspect of the faction. It feels so stilted and forced. He's gathered together a massive horde of people who should naturally be highly adept at survival in the Wasteland compared to the "Modern" NCR. Instead of having it written naturally like a historical empire where a society takes advantage of it's conditions and culture to excel in warfare, it's all about Caesar forcing people to do exactly what he wants, and everything he does is so smart, and it's all only thanks to Caesar that it works.
I hate it.
He explains it himself. They already do have plenty of territory to rule over but nothing that can serve as a true seat of power and economic hub for a lasting civilization. The whole point is to jumpstart the Legion's development instead of sitting around and slowly trying to build with what they have. I don't see how this is a poor motivation
>that can serve as a true seat of power
Because that's Caesar's fantasy taking hold of what should be a society largely inspired by nomadic peoples. There shouldn't be a seat of power. They wouldn't have a use for it. They move around where the need to be so they can forage and raid. It's already an immensely powerful society because they're a militant and nomadic people where nearly every man is naturally inclined to warfare. But because of Caesars moronation he's rushing this army into a fortified Hoover Damn (twice) just so he can take fricking Vegas, the most worthless city in all of America.
If you just took a page from actual history and just made the Legion a sensible and straightforward Nomadic tribe you could have pretty much every single moral/societal/philosophical the Legion already raises, you just wouldn't have to put up with all the moronation.
Caesar is supposed to be a student of history inspired by Rome yet for some reason he's ignorant of the fact that becoming sedentary is where things start to go downhill for most Nomadic Empires.
A society that does nothing but pillage won't last long or have any legacy. He doesn't want them to be nomadic and never did; his current approach is merely using a language they understand to transform them into something greater. You can see that right away in how he scoffs at the idea of learning tribal dialects
>A society that does nothing but pillage won't last long or have any legacy.
That isn't true at all. Those societies are often incredible sustainable and persistent. Nomads were notoriously hard to dislodge before the modern era. That's part of my point of why the man annoys me. Caesar talks big about creating something new and that's somehow supposed to attract the player to his side, but the society he plans isn't new at all, while the society he could have had would have been a new thing and an actually sustainable one.
If my options are a modern society with a few contemporary issues and a primitive society that is objectively worse in every category, is going to instantly collapse when it's leader dies, but at the moment they can fight better, why the hell would you ever pick the latter?
Again do you not understand? Caesar views his subjects as backwards tribals, which objectively they are. He knows the culture he came from is a superior one and he wants to elevate the tribals to that culture. He doesn't want them to simply survive, he wants them to thrive, to be capable of actual great accomplishments. I don't see how this is so hard to grasp. You're talking complete nonsense as if you actually believe that mudhut Africans have a superior way of life to citizens of Tokyo
>He knows the culture he came from
Yes, this I fail to understand. He's actively coordinating his own culture's destruction with his backwards savages playing make believe, who would be able to thrive if left to their own devices but instead he's causing a massive war for his ego against the most advanced and prosperous Nation in his world and seeking to kill the single most advanced and intelligent person in the Wasteland.
Why would I give a shit about joining Caesar's make believe utopia where there is no medicine and free thinking is a cultural faux pax when I could join when of three factions who are already more advanced than Caesars wildest dreams?
No, he's clear that he wants to retain what he sees as the good parts of the NCR. Presumably the infrastructure and coordination, the long term planning and capability for agriculture, etc.
If you can't the problems with the NCR and House's visions that the game presents you with and that Caesar might have an answer for then you have no right to be talking about free thinking
>Caesar might have an answer for
He doesn't have an answer. He just says he might fix things. But there is no reason to think he'd be at all capable of that.
>it's all about Caesar forcing people to do exactly what he wants, and everything he does is so smart, and it's all only thanks to Caesar that it works.
Well, that's the biggest weakness of the legion and it's why he's going to fricking die to a tumor without the courier's help. He's surrounded himself with skilled warriors/survivalists but none of them are "well-read" like Caesar, because he doesn't want anyone like that around him. The legion is built up around one person so much that when he's gone it's going to limp along for a while then die. The NCR as a faction can survive getting run out of the mojave, although that doesn't mean the legion can't continue their conquest for long enough to frick them up more.
I also have a hard time believing the legion will really be flexible enough to transition into a full-fledged society. That's why I wanted Caesar's plan for that to be explained more.
>The NCR as a faction can survive getting run out of the mojave
In fact, the NCR is so good at rolling with the punches that they don't even know Shady Sands got fricking nuked on the same year as the battle for Hoover Dam, and they're still able to keep themselves going four years later.
maybe shady sands was nuked like three days after the canonical ending of NV. then you guys will have been pissing your pants this whole time for nothing
I heard Todd said something about the "fall" not being the nuke itself, but really what were they thinking putting these events so close to each other
From what I've heard, this explanation doesn't fix anything. It just changes the show not having consistency with the franchise's timeline to the show now not having consistency with its own time-frame of events, and there are now events that don't make sense because the nuke clearly happened in 2277 in the writers' minds.
Maybe it was a fall like in the way that Reagan fricked over the US but the US is still currently a hegemony?
I never understand why people say this other than parroting what characters in the game who are unfamiliar with the Legion say
Caesar is the main Legion guy you interact with so of course he's the one to tell you the most about the ideas behind it. But even the low ranking guys understand and abide by the moral codes imposed upon them. You see practically no dissent, and it's not even out of respect for Caesar himself (barely anyone actually even talks about the man), but because of the culture that they've been molded into
I think most of them take Hanlon's perspective at face value when he's a suicidal old man.
It would help if we ever actually saw Legion civilization. Caesar himself say they have "cities" but nothing like Vegas, and they're basically a collective of self-sufficient hovels rather than an actual network of colonies working together.
Both Joshua and Ulysses say that the Legion will eventually die when Caesar goes. It won't be instantly, but it will happen because he never really bothered to train a worthy successor.
If Caesar somehow successfully changed the legion like he wanted, that wouldn't be a problem because a functioning society wouldn't just have Caesar as the only non-moron for any subject that isn't war.
But that assumes he doesn't die before that happens either to the timebomb in his head or some other danger in the wasteland.
And both of them are coping. I don't think either of them have anything to say about Lanius, the actual successor
Joshuna says that from what he's heard of him, he's a fine military leader but has no idea about leading common people, and if Ulysses survives he literally spells out how to talk him down.
Lanius is actually what's best for the Legion. Caesars plan of them adopting a city and settling down is moronic. They're tribals who make a living raiding without being held down by any sedentary spot. That's where their skills and power comes from as a people. If a few Centurions don't like Lanius and break off with their own groups to do their own thing that's perfectly fine. It's only if it somehow turned into the kind of civil war that sedentary peoples have that it would be an issue but there isn't a real reason for that to happen.
If Lanius has the prestige and reputation to keep his warrior band united around him, which by all accounts he does, then it's completely meaningless if "Regular" people liked him. Regular people are worthless sheep and slaves. Keeping those around was Caesar's dream and it was a shitty one.
>Lanius, the actual successor
Lanius is a fightcel, he regularly butchers his own soldiers because all he gives a shit about is fighting and winning. He's not a leader in any capacity, he's just the howler monkey that leads the charge.
Caesar tells you that Lanius doesn't give a shit about the Legion and is solely loyal to him.
You also have Graham telling you that Caesar is basically the only leader who knows shit about logistics and the other tenets of managing a country.
We know from the ending slides that Lanius has no leadership qualities outside of being the ungiest bunga, and he has no ideas on what to do with the legion outside of pillaging.
The Lanius ending is literally the exact same as the Caesar one except they just say he was meaner about it 🙁
The legion simply doesn't have the skillset as it currently stands to actually be that kind of society.
They are a tribe of nomadic warriors and are very good at what they do, but they are just a vehicle for Caesar to conquer.
Tribals are worthless against anyone with tactics or good training, with the NCR failing in the Mojave largely because they decided to send fresh conscripts out there (as in people without good training) before the veterans or anybody respectable. This skill disparity is best exemplified when about 5 elderly people with Enclave training (which would obviously be pretty good, as it's all prewar) kill literally hundreds of tribals (as in the Legion) on their way out of the territory. With this in mind it makes perfect sense for Caesar to try and develop a comparable training regiment because if you just gave a big mob of tribals some vague goal, you'd end up with a White Legs situation where they get slaughtered by one guy in gay rattlesnake boots who bothered to actually learn anything. Also Julius Caesar conquered established people, not naked morons squatting among ruins with mole rats. There's a big difference.
Yes, that's why Tribals would often just straight up avoid groups that they knew consisted of well trained and disciplined opponents. Yes maybe 500 tribals would lose to 5 Power Armor soldiers but the thing is that in a reasonable situation Tribals wouldn't engage that opponent. They would just run around their slow, undermanned opponent because the Tribal advantage over sedentary society is that they have different objectives and are often exceedingly practical minded, focusing goals on simple risk and reward while simultaneously being insanely daring and brave when committed. Coupled with someone giving them more advanced weaponry it would make them insanely dangerous.
Yeah. So Caesar made a shitty faction and I don't want to join it. It would be better if it was something else.
That's why the Legion even exists.
Caesar is literally the only human being in the entire Legion that isn't a bloodthirsty ape, and he made it that way by design. Joshua Graham was the closest thing he had to another intellectual and he got thrown off a cliff for a single military failure.
That's his hubris. He spent five minutes reading Hegel and decided that the "synthesis" of the Legion was to win at the Dam, at which point they would magically turn into a civilized country with an economy and trading partners. The problem is that the Legion is basically a collective of rock-banging morons who exclusively follow Caesar as if he's some kind of wizard, held together only by raw tribal "me good, them bad" and being allowed to viciously torture and enslave everyone they've branded as "them".
That's sort of the thing. One of the big ideas with the Legion is that Caesar doesn't actually understand the beast that he has created. His image of the Legion is still that initial conception when it was just a group of a few tribes, but one of the big points Ulysses makes is that the Legion has been changing as it pushes West, very gradually. That also blends into the whole thing about Lanius's past, how the story changes with every person you speak to with Caesar's almost certainly being a lie. Lanius is the quintessential Legionnaire, he is a reflection of the ideas of the Legion as they are, he has no desire to settle in Las Vegas and form a New Rome. He's only in the Mojave because his boss said that was what the Legion was doing, but Lanius doesn't really prioritize the conquest of the Mojave himself. What really should have been shown is the way in which the Legion has been changing, becoming more efficient and adapting to its challenges, where the NCR only becomes weaker as it expands its horizons, the Legion only becomes stronger with each conquest.
the real shame is that the faction itself is never developed beyond dev comments here and there, the cut content was insane, were NV had another 19 months of development we would have seen more of Legion's territory and how they actually behave, a chance to shine on the grey moral compass of Fallout.
a real shame because ingame the legion is just another group of generic bad guys roman LARP edition
wish modders were more focused on that sort of stuff rather than shit like the frontier and new california
The issue is that the game really, really does not want you to side with the Legion; but it also wants you to have complex beliefs about the Legion. It ends up working against the intended takeaway from the Legion, where most Legiongays fixate on "safe roads".
While most people will agree the Legion could have been done better, I don't think examples of people who contradict/demonstrate the weakness of the faction's ideals is a problem, seeing how the other factions also have them.
>anthology series based on groups of misfits drawing from the likes of the NCR, Great Khans, 80s, Jackals, Vipers and other wastelandgays as they go about their lives beyond the end of the world
you have shit taste and no soul and are SEETHING at the legion for being chuddy dont deny it!
Compared to how they were planned for Van Buren, I think the Legion is pretty toned down. I find the idea of a slaver empire out in the southwest, carved from the ruins of tribal groups fundamentally cool
House wants to the NCR to survive and he wants them fighting strong at the Dam. He only betrays them when he reveals his hand at the perfect time, after you beat the Legion, until then they fight alongside you. He wants to orchestrate it so that the NCR is forced to leave the Dam but relations between the NCR and Vegas aren't strained enough that people stop visiting the city. After all the NCR is where House is going to get all the big spenders that's where all the money is and that's who he is selling power to.
Basically if you're doing a House run you should be doing NCR quests.
Siding with Mr House by making the NCR sign a treaty agreement is unironically the best ending for Vegas and it’s better for the NCR in the long term.
Basically yes it's the only stable long term solution that both keeps Vegas independent and all of the civilization in California alive. The only problem is the NCR doesn't have an easy route to grow afterwards. I can see House arranging a deal but it's all in his hands if he would let the NCR start settling east of the river. My soul still says Independent though
They still have all of Oregon and Washington to spread into. In fact from a resources perspective those are immensely more desirable than fricking Nevada and Arizona
I'm partial to Arizona Killer. It has so many routes and outcomes.
it's kinda just a watered down Hitman level, but I do like Hitman, so it was fun
They wouldn't have expanded that far into the desert if their scouts hadn't come back with word of gigantic clean lake and a fricking hydroelectric dam.
Victor should've given you sidequests as he follows you
>Howdy Partner, say I represent a certain party who would be interested in your services...
>avoid siding with anyone in Goodsprings
>Install a securitron as a Sheriff in Primm
>Recover all data from Repcon in Novac, bonus prevent ghouls from launching the rockets either through violence or convince them to leave
>uncover who keeps smuggling guns into the strip from gun runners
>scout out substation
>plant false evidence against Moore
depending on the power balance House would also direct your course of action by ensuring that both NCR and Legion are weakened
>avoid siding with anyone in Goodsprings
Why in the frick would House want you to take a neutral stance on escaped convicts terrorizing a small town?
He's a big picture guy who doesn't care about small towns, yeah, but he wouldn't frown on you clearing out some people making the road to his city dangerous to potential customers.
House has Victor sit in Goodsprings even if the Powder Gangers take it, which is obviously oversight but I like to think House just has a folksy cowboy robot inhabit a town of drug dealers and murderers.
if you ask Victor for help during the showdown he will agree but never show up, House doesn't care about Goodsprings only about his property
by paying the courier to move the frick on with he gets closer to his goals
how customers get to Vegas quite literally is irrelevant to him, that is NCR's problem
Powder Gang is anti-NCR, which House might see as useful for advancing his interests
why would I ever play NCR now
>NCR already about to collapse in NV
>show establishes they conclusively collapse eventually
>and then their capital gets nuked lol
like what’s the point
wtf why is this turning into a lore discussion? OP said nothing but the NCR have the most quests and they do.
The elites don't want you to know this but you can just ignore shitty modern changes to canon.
I have ignored 458 modern remakes and sequels.
>Right-wing Americ**ts still pretending they ever cared about women's sports
I believe women should have the right to play sports with other women, despite being inferior to men at all of them, without failed men invading those female spaces and ruining it for them.
>without failed men invading those female spaces and ruining it for them
This isn't even happening, Americ**t. Republicans are the ones fricking up women's sports.
>This isn't even happening
https://www.thepinknews.com/2021/12/07/trans-swimmer-lia-thomas-womens-records/
Nothingburger and she lost multiple swimming events.
>Americ**ts screaming still 'PROTECT WAHMEN'S SPORTS'
>Meanwhile female athletes still receiving substandard treatment when it comes to facilities and salary
Jesus Fricking Christ no one cares you gibbering, pretentious, obnoxious twat. This is Ganker; take your shrieking homosexualry to /misc/.
Tell that to the one bringing up women's sports and chess for no reason
Be a man and stop rising to the bait.
>no reason
he was replying to a post mentioning that and also correct
>This isn't even happening
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/naia-bans-transgender-women-competing-womens-sports-rcna147017
Weird
This so much! We need to protect women’s spaces but male spaces are for everyone!!1
This but unironically
I'm not a cumslurping homosexual so I don't need "male spaces"
They could have done a legion expansion, but would anyone have bought it
All the NCR content is the same
>Uh, we don't have the resources or manpower to deal with this
>Also we have to hold our posts and have a bunch of bureaucratic red tape preventing us from doing anything if we wanted to
>only you can save us
There, that's every single NCR quest in the game
It would be more compelling if they didn't copy-paste this dozens of times
As few Legion quests as there are, at least they do all feel different
Yeah, I really wish the other factions had more content to them and also I wish there was more room/opportunity to kinda play/manipulate/double cross the factions and frick with them into thinking that your on their side and are actually spying on the others
yeah I Put A Spell On You is the best quest in the game. I can see why there aren't more quests like it, it's pretty complex
ranger armor = NCR, therefore i will virtually always choose NCR
Elite Riot Armor is that but better, and not faction armor.
you son of a b***h
whatever is on the bloody cover is what i want
Ranger Patrol Armor is the best. It has a hat.
I see Legion prone to fail because they rely too much on discipline and gear and equipment is something you have to earn
on the other hand NCR is tactically and strategically better equipped but their forces are spread too thind to do any good
Yes Man is just "I just don't give a frick" choice by the devs vision
so the House is the best option IMO
All discussion here is pointless until we can all agree that Ranger Ghost was hot as frick and she needed to be a companion.
Frick this Albino ranger bawd should have been ore than a on off npc.
How does one get such a massive boner over a quest NPC?
it's a mystery.
Serana was a bit more fleshed out than Ranger Ghost.
it remains a mystery.
Lydia has novelty of being most player's first housecarl, that's it. No one remembers the other dudes.
I killed Ghost, and because of mods I was able to strip her nude and rape her gory remains.
She's just albino femBoone.
>Ranger Ghost was hot as frick and she needed to be a companion.
I often roleplay that she and n Courier frick and she gives him her hat so he can remember her by
She has like 1 minute worth of dialogue max and you can't even fricking see her hair since she's wearing a hat. What the frick kind of headcanon are you gays on?
>What the frick kind of headcanon are you gays on?
The headcanon of love
I like the NCR not because I believe in the cause but the opposite. They reflect the whole "War never changes" theme of the series by being this attempt at an America 2.0. that is doing all the same mistakes as the doom civilization prior.
If I had control of the franchise I would have NCR colonize more and more of the US and have them slowly but surely be more ethically questionable/evil overtime until they start doing some CIA bullshit for "the greater good".
isn't that essentially what the flavor dialogue of most NCR NPCs in NV alludes to? the NCR becoming a large, unwieldy beast?
Yes, but we haven't exactly seen much of the NCR past New Vegas and its still up in the air if they one and moved farther East.
I have honest to god gotten tired of the BoS and would be a-okay if the NCR replaced them as the reccuring faction the protagonist has to deal with (assuming they don't do Fallout 3 and have them be generic good guys).
>until they start doing some CIA bullshit for "the greater good"
You already do have some stuff like Boyd lamenting that she's not allowed to torture Silus because of pesky laws regarding treatment of prisoners Tandi had put in place.
>have them slowly but surely be more ethically questionable/evil overtime
That's basically what is already happening. The NCR is mired in corruption, taxing its citizens into dust to sustain endless expansion for resources they can't even really use.
It's intended to be a commentary on the pre-war state of America, with overconsumption ruining everything. But fortunately now we have the TV show to flip it around where, actually, capitalism did it. And now the NCR's gone because a random person who's been frozen since before the war decided to nuke it, so we won't be getting any interesting stories about the natural decline of the NCR as all of its errors come home to roost.
I always assumed they were the hero faction. They're on the cover, they're the friendliest, most of your companions like them
i always thought the purpose of putting the BoS, Enclave, NCR soldiers on the cover was to show "you see this guy? he's from the big guy faction, they call the shots, they have the most power on this part of the wasteland currently".
in 1 most of the places you visit are smaller settlements or abandoned areas, the earlier are self sustainable but dont really have much in the way of militaristic power or organization to show off, and the Master is one guy in a vault creating a bunch of supermutants, hardly a faction. by comparison the BoS is "well" managed, they have their goals set straight and have all the equipment and knowledge many would desire in a harsh environment like post-nuclear California.
in 2, the Brotherhood is severely kneecapped, the NCR is a nation having its first few baby steps that you have to help out to teach it how to run, and while the scale of the world has grown and societies have advanced and developed more, you now have the Enclave, a super advanced society of glowie descendants emulating the US government on their way to destroy the wasteland as we know it.
and of course, the NCR, now bundled together across 6 states, expanding further East and continuing to grow, they are everywhere, you cant run away from them.
Half of ncr in new vegas is just ripped off lore from the wasteland games
>evil slaving Legion
>>>>>>>>>>>evil
um
>solely because they have the most content.
Fixed.
>yeah one random Follower of the Apocalypse read a bunch of skill books, taught a small tribe how to fight properly and then used that momentum to conquer a massive piece of the western United States
>but in spite of that there is a 0% chance there is even a single individual among those 86 tribes who is as smart as Caesar
You don't understand bro, if General Oliver died then the NCR would never have another general. It's just too much skill and knowledge.
Oliver should have never been General to start with. If Hsu was in charge the Second Battle would have been over by 2280.
>but in spite of that there is a 0% chance there is even a single individual among those 86 tribes who is as smart as Caesar
Think of how many eggheads and intellectuals are now brahmin feed because Caesar makes his army fight for their own lives.
The Legion is filled with powerful fighters and strategists, but all of the actual thinkers are dead because they get mortally shoved into a locker every time Caesar declares a decimation.
Yes and I'm sure Chieftain Oogtard of the Big Black person tribe (prior to Caesar conquering them) was also very quick to have smart people executed, be it to protect his own power or because he thought the ability to rewire a pre-war cottage was black magic. The core problem with your argument is Caesar cannot be two things at once: he cannot be so efficient that literally no intellectual, useful or ingenious people exist within the entirety of Legion territory while also being a crayon-eater who can't discern why having someone capable of repairing his auto-doc might be a smart idea. If anything we see the exact opposite in-game, where he keeps Arcade around because he's good with medicine and isn't a moron. There is almost certainly at least one centurion back in Arizona capable of using his brain and will make excuses to keep doctors, technicians and other various useful people alive without Caesar figuring it out. This notion that Caesar is a god peering over his own territory and zapping people with an IQ above 90 out of existence is laughably simplistic. I won't even get into the simple fact that, because Caesar territory is allegedly pretty safe, intelligent people would simply migrate into Arizona after Caesar's death and prove to be so useful that the centurions, etc. I mentioned simply decide "well your ability to perform surgery keeps warriors of Mars alive, so frick it you can use medical drugs." Then you simply have the same fertile ground for a second Caesar to muster up enough charisma to run things. And while that is almost certainly going to result in a schism and inter-Legion war, it's not California literally running out of food and water so I'll take my chances with Arizona.
tl;dr you are not immune to propaganda, and there's a lot of anti-Legion propaganda written into the characters we meet in NV.
>Chieftain Oogtard of the Big Black person tribe
honest hearts dropped the ball not introducing these guys
>a lot of anti-Legion propaganda
I'm looking directly at what Caesar and other Legion members literally tell you.
I wish the Legion was more fleshed-out as well, but it's canon that they're a failed state even without the Courier stepping in and performing an amateur lobotomy. I'm more inclined to believe Joshua Graham, Caesar's own #2 who was there for the vast majority of their rise and growth, when he says the Legion is going to fall apart without the cult of personality to keep them together.
I'm trying to explain a simple concept to you.
>Caesar was a nobody prior to being Caesar
>Caesar taught tribals not to be useless
>Caesar had these tribals conquer other tribals
>Caesar and his Legion become a really big deal and successful
Now are you going to sit there and tell me that Caesar is some kind of 1 in a million Christ-like figure, and nobody could ever possibly rise up in Arizona? Because if Caesar is that much of a god to not only be irreplaceable but ensure no one in his safe, secure, thriving territory is ever as smart as him with his god-like powers, then why the frick are we opposing him?
Can other people rise up? Sure.
Will another person step in and keep the Legion in its current state from breaking up into individual clans and tribes? Not a chance.
If we hadn't gotten the TV show, we could've potentially gotten stories about that, as well as the NCR's decline.
>we could've potentially gotten stories about that
Yeah Bethesda had tons of Legion content ready to release in a free update to Fallout New Vegas over 10 years after its peak but then they decided to do the show instead and deleted all of the game files
*dismissive wanking gesture*
>then why the frick are we opposing him?
Probably something to do with the sacrifices and rampant slavery.
>Chieftain Oogtard of the Big Black person tribe
For me it's Warchief Hireemy the Apple-Pie hailing from the Wherethefrickarewe tribe. Long lost kin of the Whothefrickarewes.
>but in spite of that there is a 0% chance there is even a single individual among those 86 tribes who is as smart as Caesar
Well yeah, everyone who wants to be a doctor or a scholar gets nailed to a cross. Caesar forbids higher thinking because it leads to people asking questions, all he wants are soldiers.
He outright tells you, face-to-face, that he needs as many knuckle-dragging morons as possible to throw themselves on a body pile in order to raise up the Legion to legitimacy. Thinkers get the cross. That's explicitly why the Legion fails, because Caesar only knows how to run a military, not an actual country.
That quote is in response to a question about why he doesn't use House's weapons, it cannot be extrapolated to mean LMAO NO DOCTORS
clearly you're just stawmanning at this point
Who the frick is Chance and why is his knife so good
>Who the frick is Chance
A cracked up coke fiend
>and why is his knife so good
he took so many drugs that it infused the blade with residue that enters your bloodstream when you sweat.
a character from a visual novel the devs released before the game came out.
it explains how Benny arrived to Goodsprings, the road he took, who Chance is and also gives us some more background details about Benny's relationship with fellow Chairmen.
the knife is good because its embedded with his desire to stab shit that threatens him or gives him PTSD.
i think its called Fallout New Vegas All Roads or something like that.
Read All Roads, it's a good comic.
A guy that couldn't let go of the past.
A Great Khan suffering from PTSD caused by the buckbreaking of Bitter Springs. As if it wasn't the first time that a superior force didn't tear their ass a new one.
this dude
Who would win, Cook-Cook or Chance?
Chance easily now if it was Motor-Runner that would be a fight worth seeing.
Cook-Cook has personally raped several characters in New Vegas. Keep this in mind.
From the receipts Motor-Runner was having his own form of fun with them too. Can't say if Driver was using them for anything other than practicing his swing and the local canadian won't go for anything that walks on two legs.
Driver Nephi is a gentleman from another age. In another life, he would be a White Glove, wining and dine with the elite, occasionally traveling to Camp Golf so he can use it for its intended purpose.
I'm pretty sure the knife is good because of its crit chance and the fact that its faster and does more damage than most smaller melee weapons of its class. Now, combine that with some of the perks in melee that increase attack speed and damage AND the Cowboy/Grunt perk which affects knives and you're essentially a whirlwind of death, bonus points for taking stuff like Rushing Water as well.
>Cowboy/Grunt for 50% damage bonus
>Unstoppable Force to slam right through blocks
>Slayer for 30% bonus to attack speed
>Super Slam! to ragdoll homosexuals
>Stonewall to resist knockdowns
>Tribal Wisdom for that walkabout magic and poison resistance buff
>Eye for Eye for another 60% damage when you break all of your limbs
>Implant GRX 2+ for a daily refill on slowmo
>Rushing Water, Weapon Binding Ritual, Psycho for that extra kick
>swap out Chance's Knife for the Bowie/Bloodnap to convert it to a Dundee build
Its a genuine shame that we will never get another Fallout game that actually builds on Fallout 3 and NV. Fallout 4 went too much into the A~~*RPG*~~ Direction and Starfield cemented that Bethesda are incapable of making a good Open World let alone RPG.
And then Obsidian became SUPER pozzed garbage evidently with Outer Worlds and if John Sawyer wasn't there it would have been a dumb down piece of shit.
josh*
They were pozzed during New Vegas.
yeah but that's why I said SUPER. Atleast with NV they had the balls to insert a variety of different opinions, questionable morality, misogyny and racism.
It is kind of hard to imagine current day Obsidian putting something like "Sneering Imperalist" into a game now, even if it's meant to be ironic/evil/making fun of racists or whatever
The most damning account of the Legion is when you're doing the Papa Khan quest, and discover that Caesar had to lie through his teeth to get the Khans to agree to anything.
The Legion literally has nothing to offer if you've already got your own thing going, just assimilation or death.
Which makes it all the more sad when a pathetic gathering like the White Legs are walking the path towards damnation with their Black persony. Bear-And-Bull knew this fact well as his tribe did the same thing and he was responsible for their fate. By comparison Salt-Upon-Wounds is so desperate to elevate his people beyond illiterate savages that he will make them march down that road regardless of how it ends for them. Papa Khan will speak at length about how his people were one of the founding nations to be born out of Californian but they still held onto their old ways.
Despite said ways being little more than a pack of roving beggers picking off independent caravans. The two other tribes that rose alongside them were effectively culled in the purges by the last that people know today as the NCR. That's why the ending where they just bounce out of the Mojave to head northwest is the best possible way for them to go. They finally stop acting like a pack of humongous homosexuals or being relegated to the role of second fiddle to a LARPer by trying their own hand at nation building. The Followers are more than happy to assist them in that journey and in exchange their last century worth of accumulated knowledge of the wasteland living can be recorded for others to use.
>he thinks the great khans are worth anything
It doesn't matter what they're worth.
They're very much on their own two feet after spending the past century being violently run out of California. They're not at their peak, but they're 110% better off than they would be with the Legion assimilating them, then crucifying all of the males and selling the women into breeding slavery.
NCR is cringe leftist shit.
House is lolbertarian shit
Legion is based
Independent is unsatisfyingly devoid of much content.
People love to treat this shit like it's remotely realistic, but obviously nobody would live in the fricking desert period in the post apocalypse.
The entire "wasteland" concept doesn't make sense. MOVE, homie, it's a big country.
The desert's preferable to moving out east into the perpetual mile-wide tornadoes and radiation storms
>like it's remotely realistic
That's the point, it isn't. You use a fantastical setting to emphasize the human elements, whether it's at a macro level with the way civilization re-establishes, or at a micro level with the way individuals survive and connect with each other.
The "realism" doesn't matter when the story elements work. That's why FO1>2>NV are great, while FO3>4>76 are inscrutable nonsense.
pretty much, the main man behind the silly bethesda choices (aside from todd) is the emillio guy, who only understand fallout at a mainstream level, le epic power armor BoS and war never changes (he doesn't know why war never changes)
the fact that the show is better than fricking FO4 and 76 by a wide margin because the showrunners and jonathan nolan were fans of OG fallouts its insane, even with the obvious emillio and todd intervention here and there
Nolan only played FO3 and didnt even finish it, some of the staff for the show gave an interview about it before its release and didnt even know California was already-explored territory for the franchise.
something tells me Nolan pitched an idea for a show in a meeting, had some of it written out and Bethesda came in storming through certain contacts because they were having awful reception with FO76, and 4's numbers were in the shitter and begged him and threw money at him to rewrite it to be a Fallout show.
the Fallout show feels Fallout in the same way Prey 2017 feels like another game in the Prey "series"
>Can nuke both major factions and use hundreds of killer robots to become undisputed leader of everything nearby
>Anons ITT would rather work for a foreign government in exchange for a pat on the head and a shiny branch
>Other anons would rather put tent-dwelling spear-chucking tribals in charge
Explain yourselves.
This Helldivers thread is weird...
https://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/105836-fallout-new-vegas-and-dlc-post-mortem-interview-part-one-v15-105836.html
>Lastly, with regards to the DLCs, I believe Ulysses is correct, a new framework of civilization is the only solution for the Mojave and the Legion and NCR are self-destructive institutions (the Legion is more a slow burn than NCR is) and both should be cleansed with fire. ~ Chris Avellone
i mean its pretty self explanatory doesn't it? all the big thinkers of the post-post apocalyptic america are trying to emulate and mimic the old ideologies and ways that brought on the nuclear war on the first place, Ulysses was right to go nuclear against the Courier because The Divide was a different nation without the old ""democratic"" ideologies of america of the NCR or the extreme savagery of the Legion
one of the biggest themes of the game and DLC is letting go of the past, and even if Ulysses can be a bit bothersome with le bear and le bull speeches he hits it right on the nail, the best chance for the nuclear america to evolve and prosper got nuked so hard the ground itself cracked open
the problem is that trying to rescue/add cut content thats based on interviews and dev comments is that you need a strong motherfricker that can keep in check the whole team of devs, it takes a single autistic larper to go and inyect bullshit that goes against the concept of the faction or even beyond the faction itself, if you don't watch over them, specially the average joe, you will see LARP 2: electric boogaloo, you ppl that actually knows politics, history and most importantly, Fallout, Sawyer and Avellone were a great pair, Sawyer was the history/political nerd and Avellone the lore guy, perfect pairing.
I like NCR because I like civilization.
Vault city is also my favorite place in fallout 2.
Why do people still discuss fallout factions like there even is an answer?
They are all bad on purpose. Ive played all of them (yes all of them) and the "muh grimdark, all options are bad"-ism got boring after fallout 2. I don't choose any factions in any bethesda game. All of them are morally bankrupt on purpose. Its the laziest writing of all time, this goes for every fallout game post 2 and every elder scrolls game period. Its very tiresome to see these threads. All factions in those games are shit because either taking an actual moral stance as part of the games writing would be too based and writing actual legitimately beleivable moral greyness is too hard. Frick all of you.
Because it's fun? Even Fallout 2 with it's cartoon villain in the form of The Enclave still has factional play between either control over Redding or which crime family will inherit New Reno. It's fun to discuss because each faction brings a good element to the table and it's based on what you the player character value. If you had a fully altruistic faction then what reason would you ever pick the other options? This was an issue Bioshock ran into with the Little Sister gimmick.
Because the factions are flawed in an entertaining way, it's just a shame the legion's flaws also come from limitations of the game's development itself.
I think analyzing the legion's ideals/flaws is interesting, but they're the most unreasonable faction to side with and I'd take fricking anyone else over them. That might not be the case had they been more fleshed out.
But its not interesting at all when all your choices boil down to: "evil bureucrats, evil mobsters, evil psychopaths, evil (roman) psychopaths. Im not asking for altruism, but if you are going to make it so no one is good, you also have to make it so no one is evil. That is what actual moral greyness is. Having everyone just be unapologetically evil is not fun or interesting.
I see the legion in the game as it exists as a writing necessity, otherwise the incompetence of the NCR wouldn't have been sellable. The very idea of the NCR being simultaneously as shit as it is, and as big as it is. Makes no sense from a writing perspective. The BoS was ruined and shouldn't have existed in new vegas.
You can't argue for the legion. Slaveholding. Period.
The enclave being a joke imo was always a middle finger to any sort of realisitic expectation for immersion. This applies to 2 as well. Grimdark for the sake of grimdark is stupid. Regardless of setting or reason.
In order to argue for the Legion, you essentially have to argue that the NCR is bound for collapse. Because the circumstances in California pre-NCR were basically slavery everywhere, including directly outside the NCR, and also everyone is hooked on jet, and also everyone wants to genocide each other. If the NCR is bound for collapse whereas the Legion is not, you can easily justify the Legion by simply pointing to the entire setting of Fallout 2. Legion territory is not implied to be that bad, even if slavery is common. The issue is that this is all implication, we don't see Legion settlements. So on the one hand, it seems like the Legion leaves civilized settlements alone within their own territory; but on the other, we just don't see that.
The NCR's incompetence in the war is explained pretty well I think, they want to control the mojave but the decisionmakers back home didn't want to actually open up their purses or use the more skilled soldiers. So now they're spread too thin with many inexperienced troops An unpopular war effort is even more unpopular now that they're getting fricked up by the legion, so good luck getting more support in terms of troops, supplies etc. And then you've got shit like general oliver funneling the best troops/supplies to the dam to force one big fight against the legion while the rest of the mojave gets its ass kicked, or Hanlon sabotaging the NCR's war effort so they'll pull out.
Actually having the military capability was never the problem with the NCR, its the bureaucracy getting in the way of actually doing it properly.
With this, I think any reasonably strong enemy could've been opposite of them at Hoover dam, the situation is kinda perfect for showing the NCR's flaws.
All of this is made even worse with the cannibalistic nature that is the different branches in the military and the merchant companies. Said companies are trying to undercut their competitors, engage in corporate espionage and outright destroying their supply caravans. Which is having a severe knock-on effect. Whilst the military is split between Chief Hanlon falsifying the intel and General Wait-And-See's push for using his discount power armor as the next step in warfare. They spend more time fighting themselves over stupid, petty bullshit while the Legion runs circles around them.
I refuse to learn how Hacking, Crafting, and Caravan work. I've done multiple playthroughs with brute fricking force and luck.
You might be moronic.
>NCR gets a big fricking revolver with fancy engravings and mottos on it, and tactical riot gear
>legion gets a sword made out of a car bumper and armor made out of football uniforms
why
Legate Armor looks good thoughbeit.
ok I will take the bait
what is this "thoughbeit" shit
are you the same anon or are multiple people trying to force a meme
how new
Because the NCR isn't a bunch dumb tribal fricks and turns out tech allows for awesome shit.
>he's not Tribal-pilled
>he doesn't get juiced on Rushing Water (not a chem so it's natty) with Slayer and Super Slam
>he doesn't use the weapons that embody the two aspects that describe how man was born and then rule his life
>he doesn't leg-sweep a a deathclaw to then rip its throat out with his bare fricking hands like the Great Spirit That Burns the Sky intended
>he doesn't work for mystical screen man because he pays many jingling bits and promises to send you to the glowing eye of the Night Man high in the sky
>he doesn't work with the metal man army who have strong warrior spirits and serve a mighty leader with their voices like the bristle of thunder
You have bad medicine.
What's the best experience to play NV these days? Tale of 2 Wastelands? Give me your shortest modlists anons
Vanilla.
https://vivanewvegas.moddinglinked.com/intro.html
I really love the FO1/2 OST but I wish NV had a bit more ambient music of its own.
The failure to reuse New Renos music really sticks. Freeside, Westside, and the surrounding area around the Strip really would have benefited from it. In general, that whole area needed to be utilized more too. It feels like it was designed before everything else, like with Come Fly With Me, so it has a completely different vibe to it. The idea of this complete free for all zone where people are selling drugs to raiders, handing off intel to frumentarii, running drug rings out of hovels, setting traps for unsuspecting tourists, I just wish there were alot more quests in that area.
These might help.
https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/55833
https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/84554
NV ambient music gets mogged by 3
>it's a "get up, get a drink and stretch your legs because the game crashed again" break
I love that this post caused janitor seethe
Recommend me some good revolver weapon mods Gankerros
Now, I'm not afraid to do the Lord's work. They say vengeance is His, but I'mma do it first.
https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/73891
The game has a pretty good selection by itself
Then again, one can't go wrong with a Colt Navy
You'll likely still just use Lucky, however
Yeah the first time I was playing NV (didn't play 3 before) I agreed with everything Ceasar and his frickboy in that tent were saying. Their logic makes perfect sense INGAME. With game's mechanics in considering their approach to combat is arguably superior both in actual combat and the resource gathering gameplay loop outside of it. It's like the characters had a fourth wall breaking ability to know about RPG builds.
Legion is the vidya faction equivalent of the main character winning in the actual game but then losing in a cutscene.
Cool e-girl picture bro.
What makes it even more hilarious is that it happened in a New Vegas thread with stereotypical trannies getting triggered
Writing legion quests would’ve been boring. House on the other hand coudve been way more interesting.
>they have the most related content
Just blatantly ignoring the Brotherhood of Steel, are we?
I need to eat out a girl in a full suit of riot gear
Helmet absolutely included
>if I play as an evil slaving Legion bastard I can't visit half the damn map.
?
What do you mean? I had no problem going anywhere when I played as an evil legion bastard.
What quests could you have dealing with issues inside legion territory?
Investigating rumors of chem use or dealing. A town militia is forming that doesn't like the Legion but the other town occupants oppose them because they're going to get them all killed. An NCR cuck is looking for their captured daughter they've been trying to buy the freedom of, but she's grown to accept her place, and thinks she's going to end up dead if she goes with her father because he was weak enough to get captured in his care in the first place. Some midwestern brotherhood squad has secured a town, and the Legion is too occupied with the war to deal with it themselves.
>resolving a judicial dispute between the civilian population and the military Legion garrison
>doing jobs for the local military commander, like clearing caverns or places
>catching NCR spies
Old tribal allegiances showing through and leading to discrimination and favoritism.
Above average intelligent soldiers trying to get their commanders to adopt advanced tacticts/weaponry.
Influential women using loopholes to get a tiny bit of power.
>Old tribal allegiances showing through and leading to discrimination and favoritism.
NCRcuck cope
>Above average intelligent soldiers trying to get their commanders to adopt advanced tacticts/weaponry.
oh boy, we have a moron here
>Influential women using loopholes to get a tiny bit of power.
brain dead moron