"I didn't even have the mimic yet"
A friend of mine explaining why he put margit in his top 3 hardest bosses
did I genuinely miss the design intent by ignoring summons, magic and spirit ashes? It was bullshit almost all the way, but I pushed through and beat it just to be done with it. That seems to be a common sentiment. Aren't people supposed to feel triumph from overcoming seemingly impossible fights?
What is the message then? Sekiro was "stop hesitating, be relentless". Is this "stop trying to solo everything, friendship is power"?
Is it significantly more fun that way or just less frustrating?
Why did they design it this way?
Boredom.
it's simply a shit game.
>ignoring summons, magic and spirit ashes
sounds like you played a pretty shitty version of elden ring then
not sure why you feel like you have any ground to stand on when discussing how the game was designed
what ground? I played the way a majority of people would approach a fantasy game, because most of us imagine ourselves as sword and shield users in those scenarios. Because it's most relatable to actual historical badasses.
In a game with so many options, what is the design intent in making the average self-insert a borderline miserable experience?
It is obejectively the default way abyone would approach a fantasy game with combat. It being the "wrong" way means there is something yhe deva are trying to push at you.
No it's not. Gamers hoard consumables absolutely. But if you're not using something nonconsumable, then you are the outlier for not using it. That's just like never using one of your skills in game. Did you just never use ashes of war either? What is the difference here?
Tons of games have summoning mechanics and entire summoner classes, but ER is the only game in history where people think summoning npcs is cheating. Now another human is something else. That's co-op, I can understand not wanting to do that. But bots? NPCs? There are no games where people don't use these when offered - with the small exception of games like Daikatana where the AI is so terrible they're a detriment.
It's cheating in souls. You beat the boss 1v1 or it doesn't count.
lemme guess, you're one of those gay speedrunners, have you cleaned your kitchen today?
>There are no games where people don't use these when offered
I don't use ashes either, it isn't just OP.
The boss AI isn't designed for multiple opponents at once and it practically breaks
That's From's problem, not mine
>i roleplayed as if it was the year 2009 playing DeS for the first time, and i didn't have a good time doing it
super cool story bro
why didn't you just parry everything? game would not be that bullshit then.
The message is incredibly obvious from that story about how he was inspired by the kids pushing his car out of the snow. Dark Souls games are only hard because 90 percent of people are doing (un)intentional challenge runs. It'd be like if everyone said the only real way to beat pokemon is a nuzlocke. Yeah, the games sure would be harder then, wouldn't they?
Ive been wondering why soulsgays even have this elitist masochistic mentality not found in any other rpg. It has to be the online component right?
>The message is incredibly obvious from that story about how he was inspired by the kids pushing his car out of the snow
Please Explain?
>"stop trying to solo everything, friendship (fascism) is power"
Friendship isn't just power. It's also magic.
I'd play a pony soulslike, and so would most of you.
Twilight OP, pls nerf
I fought Margit with an unleveled weapon at lvl 18 the first time. This shit took forever but I eventually did it. The best experience I had with the game. Godrick was decently fun too. The game gets too gimmicky after that.
The message of Elden Ring is "use the tools at your disposal instead of being anal retentive about boss battles".
Then the game is simply designed to be less fun. Those tools aren't as polished as in sekiro. They don't even feel like "tools' because summons and magic either overwhelm or completely remove interaction with the boss. It's either face the bullshit aggression or watch the bullshit aggression directed towards something else. Or spam a spell that removes the interaction from the fight.
None of those are as fun as straight up fights
>He didn't beat Radahn solo without Torrent
I honestly forgot to use him during that boss fight.
>Fought Margit day 1
>summoned bros with unleveled weapons like me
>we all smashed our heads against him until we made it through
FUN TOGEVER WIF FRIENS
I'd say most bosses are absolutely designed for the player to be using some form of magic, throwable or ranged weapon art, in conjunction with melee in order to keep pressure going when the boss is flipping around. Something like Azur Comet with the Mana Physick is busted but throwing a fireball at Malenia at the end of Waterfowl is common sense.
Spirit Ashes, particularly legendary ones or puppets, are easy mode bu player or NPC summons are fine because they buff the boss.
>I'd say most bosses are absolutely designed for the player to be using some form of magic, throwable or ranged weapon art
Stagger goes away if you do nothing for a few seconds, so you are right.
Throwing knives are god tier just because it forces the AI to do something while they are waiting for you to take a sippy or something while maintaining stagger at the same time.
The balance on Spirit Ashes is fricked up. Mimic Ash should cut your health in half and not be nearly as durable as it is, not do half your health in damage that you can instantly recover.
game gives you multiple options to approach every encounter. Crowd screaming that you need to do each boss 1lvl 1v1 barehanded are msotly people who can't do it themselves and just parrot the thing to look like big guys
example is the valiant gargoyles. It can be silly to do it on ranged character, but as some melee builds you'll get destroyed by them and its ok to use spirit ashes there
on other side, having character constantly spaming mimic each fight is kinda cheating, because some fight are doable solo, yet people prefer to have storymode. Those type of people nearly never complain about bosses, but they cry about some normal enemies being hard c**ts, like dual 2h enraged knight in castle sol doing nuffin personell kid to you
most of the time shit depends. If you're using mimic every fight possible, yes, you're cheating yourself out of experiencing the game. If you think that only legal kill is <insert some arbitrary rules>, then you're also a cheater AND a moron, because you perfected some handicapped mode of killing bosses and expect everyone else to follow your braindamaged formula
steam achievments kinda shows you fights where people suck even witha shes. Fricking Mogh and malenia around 30% and Dragonlord below 30 lmao. Even if we call them optional bosses, a shitton of morons watch youtubers and other clowns so they should be aware of those bosses existing
tl:dr play what you want, not what other people want you to do. It's your fricking game and exerience, you play for yourself, not for others to follow their idea of how you should play
fml tried to format it correctly and now it looks like plebbit shit
that said, you can beat the game with typical medieval fantasy of sword & board, jsut use consumes and ashes you moron, they gave you crafting so you caa have infinite supply of them
I dont think they thought about it that much. The souls combat formula was reaching its upper limit of complexity and difficulty in DS3 so in order to push it further they had to give the player something else.
They also needed to pad out the item drop pool to make exploring the 92nd mini dungeon feel somewhat worthwhile.
>Visible Poise meter on enemies and player
>Perfect block system
>Improved audio visual cues for unparryable and grab attacks
Pretty much my ideal, though I know a lot of Dark Souls trads would seethe endlessly about it. Also wish Arrows and what not weren't something you had to craft and stock up on endlessly but instead finding or buying them gave you a set amount that would respawn when you rested.
I think miyazaki should give up on making every new game harder and harder, and let yamamura design a spectacle fighter or something. Make your cool open world fantasy settings with incest subplots and let the actual talent like yamamura design the skill oriented combat. Sekiro 2 or what the frick ever idc
Spirit Ashes should slowly drain FP, taking bigger chunks when they get hit and dissipating when FP reaches zero. The Mimic Ash should do the sane but with your own health.
ashes shouldve been locked by Arcane stat
actually they shouldve just made arcane a summoner class
>Sekiro was "stop hesitating, be relentless"
Ironically, Elden Ring's motto seems to be, "Stop being aggressive, patience is key". The game became a lot easier when I let the bosses spam their autistic combos, and just carefully stepped out of the way until they were done. Or, if I wasn't feeling patient, I just spammed whatever Ash of War stunned them the easiest. Margott has a 14+ second combo, and I frankly just can't be assed most days.
You are describing Dark Souls, trading blows is the term. Elden Ring had this but it was a lot better.
>trading blows is the term.
Isn't trading blows intentionally taking damage so that you can deliver a stronger attack to the opponent, hence trading?
It’s a term I’ve seen people here who hate souls use for the boss combat. Love the games but I can see it. 7 seconds of dodging, 5 seconds to hit them back, repeat.
"I BEAT ELDEN RING USING X! YOU WONT BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!"
It's be whatever the frick you want it to be.
I played as a slave with a massive shield that has a cannon attached to it for my NG. It was hilarious, I had a bunch of nobles for cannon fodder too, just enough time for me to set up my buffs and one shot the boss with cannon.
The boys! Best spirits by far.
snake
>My version of fun is more legitimate than your version of fun.
-The Thread
Yes anon, they put all those summons in the game and all that multiplayer framework because you're supposed to ignore it and listen to what morons on message boards have to say about how to play the game.
Is anyone willing to gift the game?
It's just a game, play however you want, build variety and experimentation is what Elden Ring was designed around.
The message of Elden Ring is "we want the Skyrim audience". The game is genuinely built and balanced around spirit ashes to every moron can finish it.
What's your actual argument here? They casualized it? I wasn't able to tell from all the seething Ganker does about Malenia.
People did not realize you are supposed to use summon or use one of the 3 viable meta builds the game was built around. Or play it like an MMORPG and just grind mobs you oneshot but that was always the case if you wanted so whatever
I get the people defending spirit ashes but I only ever used it once against Margitt and it made me feel so dirty I restarted. You're free to use the easy mode item and I'm free to think of you as a lesser human being for it.
>genuinely miss the design intent by ignoring summons, magic and spirit ashes?
yes
you avoided using tools in your toolkit and had a worse time because of it. this is like playing Demons Souls and running in on 5-1 and complaining you get ganked when you could've dragged them out with a bow. trying being less moronic next time.
They made easy mode even easier to access to appeal to a wider audience, at the cost of millions of morons sharing their opinions about the games balance and difficulty when they barely beat it with their hand being held.
I use all the tools in my toolkit because the game is unfair with hitboxes and disconnects and lag. The game launched with terrible networking and I had about 5 enemies bug out in those first 2 days.
Go ahead and handicap yourself. I don't, because I don't hold the devs on some unreachable high pedestal of perfect game design and difficulty tuning and QA. In my first playthrough, I would rather not fight a boss 10 times, if I don't have to, because there are 10,000 other games released before ER, and many more after, that I am interested in playing, and I have limited time on Earth.
The style of play some people flaunt around, the "I didn't use all the tools" playstyle, is an objective waste of time that severely over-inflates the capabilities of Fromsoft. I liked ER, but even with all the tools, the game was still a little annoying and launched with completely broken networking (this includes PVP).
Seemless Coop mod fixed the terrible multiplayer and the game was easier, but still wasn't a complete cake walk. Single player and without coop many fights were too time consuming and trial and error is not good game design.
You want to show off how talented you are? Go ahead. Just don't be upset when nobody is impressed. The impressive ones are the twitch streamers who show us they can beat the entire series without taking a single hit at SL1 in every game in one sitting.
You guys are just dudes talking to us about how great you were at high school football. You have no video and nobody cares how "badass" you are.
>friendship is power
historically, friendship has always been the strongest power in any souls game. the power of JOLLY COOPERATION