I hate the MiSTer dev community so much. A game I like was released and of course it's exclusive to Patreon subs. It's not the first time either. I hate MAME and using MiSTer is a much better experience but I hate how these buttholes take advantage of that and make money off the player base. I wish something could be done about it.
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>buy into a scam designed to fleece the ignorant out of their money
>complain when you continue to be asked to pay more
I have zero sympathy for you.
The hardware itself is not a scam. It's a better form of emulation, that's absolutely true.
>It's a better form of emulation, that's absolutely true.
lol
Pardon my ignorance, I don’t frequent this board. Are you both under the impression that emulation with software is equivalent to FPGA? Because that is very much wrong. FPGAs have “programmable gate arrays”. What that basically means, is you can design-your-own schemas with them. You can literally recreate old chips exactly as they were. Once an FPGA is set, it becomes a new chip entirely. Eliminating the need for “emulation” to take place at all. There is no software layer. You can pretend there’s no difference to you — but they’re not the same not even close. FPGA is the faster more accurate method when compared to emulation. I denounce the Talmud btw, and I’m white and have a family. I’m also a developer and my expertise trumps yours.
Enjoy the gold kind friend.
Dude I don't care. I do real hardware or emulation, I don't mess around with anything in between.
Btw FPGA's is a simulation, not an emulation, but either way it's a scam.
How much power do you think I need to run everything from 1975-1991 anyway?
(that is what I consider the golden and silver age of arcade games)
MAME sucks and if you had hardware you'd understand just how shit it is for most games
MAME still softlocks in undercover cops
>come on, guys buy my product!
No.
>if you had hardware you'd understand just how shit it is for most games
I've got more OG hardware than your dreams, but sometimes you're right; MAME is wholly inappropriate for Robotron and Heavy Barrel because both run too fast on it.
It’s open source, build it or not, I don’t care, just frick off and stop shitting in every thread. I mean that collectively.
YOU frick off, b***h. You're the one pushing the mister scan on anons, not me.
Making fun of gacha morons, audiophools, mistersissies is board culture. You are collectively poor and defend scams for morons because you bought into it.
>It's a better form of emulation, that's absolutely true.
Kys troony
Its open source right? Just wait it out
How much different is it from a Raspberry Pi machine?
Hardware simulation . better response times and accuracy.
It's not more accurate, people always get that wrong. It's just latency and frame rates, those are the primary benefits.
And if you can use runahead it removes the latency argument since you remove at least a full frame of input lag and end up with less input lag than real hardware (and some games have a lot of input lag on actual hardware, for example Ridge Racer 4 has 66ms (2 frames at 30 FPS) of lag on a real PS1)
Runahead is crap and doesn’t work on something like a raspi.
>Runahead is crap
Not if you understand how it works and set it up properly
>doesn’t work on something like a raspi
I already have a PC, why would I buy a pi?
A poster above was asking how Mister compared to a raspberry pi.
>Technology is bounded depending on the game
>Configure technology outside of bounds for game
>Complain that technology is crap
Why do morons blame everything but themselves?
Why do morons act like runahead is a cheat code for lag issues?
>Runahead is crap
I'm not a fan either, but...
>doesn’t work on something like a raspi.
It actually does. I do have a RPi4 around and it worked for up to 4th-gen consoles when I tested it.
but less input lag than real hardware is still inaccurate
Runahead is garbage. I tried playing Mega Man 2 with runahead and the item drops from defeating enemies would randomly change before you pick them up because they're randomized drops.
>literally making shit up
There's a reason why runahead doesn't work on cores without deterministic savestates
>Determinism
Inaccurate then
>Run ahead
literally a hack
You set it up wrong if that is what you are seeing, you can only use 1 frame of run ahead on that game before you start skipping animation
it's isn't more accurate, it's still reverse-engineered, like software emulators are.
>it's isn't more accurate, it's still reverse-engineered, like software emulators are.
A motorcycle isn't faster, it still is based on the idea of a two-wheeled vehicle, like a bicycle is.
>Wait you paid for the box and still have to pay for games??
Uhhh, no? One person has his unfinished beta cores exclusive to his Patron subscribers, but they are released for free once finished. None of the games you have to pay for.
>It could be argued though that he surely used MAME sourcecode and others decapping/die analysis work as reference for writing his FPGA cores so it's kinda dishonest to pretend it's his own work only but MAME license permits what, so...
He literally is the reason MAME's laughably inaccurate CPS code was exposed because of his own core that is miles more accurate. Pic related.
Thanks for proving you are a zoom zoom. I see you don't remember the 90s and early 00s era of paid emulators. Nobody who has experienced the "Whoops, your battery pack ran out of power!" nonsense that NO$GB pulled when GBC support was added would say shit like that. It was laughable how salty that guy got when people then started pirating his emulator.
What a surprise, you can't post properly. I bet you can't triforce either.
Doesn’t that stuff all come out eventually?
Retropie is software emulators running on Linux, with either HDMI or terrible composite output. Input lag and display lag applies.
Mister is FPGA emulation, in hardware, so less/no latency and supports proper analog video output for consoles that use it. It “feels” closer to original hardware if that’s important to you. Fewer options to tweak than Retropie but still has shaders for HDMI output.
Retropie on raspi4 supports Dreamcast to some extent and Mister never will.
So how come Nintendo used technology akin to that of the Raspberry Pi in their S/NES Classic console instead of “closer to the metal” technology like you mention?
Cheaper
Are you sure? It seems surprising that the company that tried making renting video games illegal would have such a cavalier attitude towards people emulating their games on credit card-sized computers inside cases that other people made that look like their game consoles. It may hurt Nintendo’s bottom line if they made video game piracy that much easier.
What do you mean? I’m nta, but yes, a fpga chip is more expensive than a cheaper raspberry pi style chip. The rest of the shit you wrote has nothing to do with the original argument, so what’s your point?
The point is that it is not within Nintendo’s rational self-interest to jump into the emulation game and make pirating video games that little bit easier.
Mini consoles with emulators inside are made to a price point and so just need to be good enough for most people. Thankfully Nintendo hired a talented team to do the software
ARM chips are cheap as frick
It's very cheap. It's basically like using hardware from an ultra cheap chink phone
Patreon strictly supports development of the core, not the licensed content. Besides, you can play the PlayStation or Saturn Parodius games right now if you wanted to. I understand there's an arcade core for it now and it's behind a paywall, but all cores become public release eventually.
>So how come Nintendo used technology akin to that of the Raspberry Pi in their S/NES Classic console instead of “closer to the metal” technology like you mention?
Others have said cheaper, but that doesn't even begin to cover it. It's CONSIDERABNLY cheaper, almost comically so.
The DE-10 Nano board is currently $225, and that's only because it's price spiked to almost a hundred more than it originally was just a few years ago (see picrel). Yet, this is still cheap for such a FPGA board because it's heavily subsidized. There are many other FPGA boards with weaker FPGA chips and won't even include the additional ARM CPU and RAM that the DE-10 Nano board has that cost more because those are not subsidized.
The cheapest you can get the Cyclone V chip alone (JUST the chip, as in, you basically have to solder a BGA CPU-like package onto the rest of whatever you're using) is around $60, many closer to $100.
.... meanwhile you can get a Raspberry Pi Zero for as little as $10... and that's the consumer price for the entire pre-assembled board, not the price of just the ARM chip that is more than overkill for SNES software emulation already.
For the price a DE-10 Nano is going for right now you can buy 22 Pi Zeros.
The hardware needed to do SNES emulation in software vs FPGA is literally around ***20 TIMES*** cheaper.
>What a bargain!
Nah I'll rather emulate on my pc for free
>The hardware needed to do SNES emulation in software vs FPGA is literally around ***20 TIMES*** cheaper.
A Pi Zero has nowhere near the clock speed for decent SNES emulation like bsnes, it's awful hardware for the purpose of emulation.
>Nah I'll rather emulate on my pc for free
Casual user, MiSTer isn't for you.
>A Pi Zero has nowhere near the clock speed for decent SNES emulation like bsnes
>RPi Zero can't run bsnes accuracy, can't use low latency options like a small audio buffer, gpu hard sync or runahead
Nobody argued bsnes or cycle-accurate emulation on a Pi. Notice my reply was specifically in response to an anon asking why Nintendo didn't use a FPGA over ARM for the SNES Mini. My response was based on that, of course the SNES Mini is not at the level of bsnes either. Considering the SNES Mini can be hacked to run up to PS! emulation, and so can the Pi Zero, but neither can handle bsnes, it is indeed overkill for the purpose of something intended to emulate SNES gams at the level the SNES mini does.
Oh, I see your point.
That's not a fair comparison at all.
RPi Zero can't run bsnes accuracy, can't use low latency options like a small audio buffer, gpu hard sync or runahead, and SNES isn't even the high water mark for MiSTer emulation anyway.
I'm not a MiSTergay but this is pretty stupid.
Imagine thinking that shitty ARM chip on a Pi Zero is overkill for SNES emaultion, I swear these threads are just a non stop parade of stupidity.
it's inevitable given the topic
>Doesn’t that stuff all come out eventually?
Does it? I'm still waiting on the TMNT core to be released for free like they said it would be.
When have you ever paid for an emulator or a rom?
So just because there's a precedent of people working for free, that means that none of them should get paid? It's only a temporary pay wall anyway. Just be patient homosexual.
Also people pay for roms and emulators all the time, they're called re-releases. People pay a monthly fee to have access to NSO emulators and roms too. Dolphin, RPCS3 and many others have had patreons for years.
So yes, people do pay for other people to do hard work.
You're describing suckers
>When have you ever paid for an emulator
MagicEngine
Magic Engine was the shit back then.
>someone made a game and wants to get paid for it
oh the horror
They didn't make the game, Konami did! That's the point.
>someone made a FPGA core and wants to get paid for it
What game?
This time it's Parodius.
It can be more accurate, it depends how it's implemented. But it is true that there are more than a few cores on the mister which aren't accurate at all.
Except he's selling someone else's copyrighted material, which is illegal.
>This time it's Parodius.
I get the annoyance but at least finished cores aren't paywalled, it's just the WIP ones.
It's not selling copyrighted material. Otherwise emulators would be illegal and they wouldn't be as prolific as they are. You still have to source the rom for yourself, that's the copyrighted material.
There's also nothing about hardware emulation that makes it inherently more accurate than software emulation. It's just a different means to achieve the same thing. The only benefit is that it doesn't have to jump through hoops on an operating system in order to run, which means less latency.
You're very opinionated for someone so misinformed.
They are when the time comes bundled in with the core :clownfaceemoji:
Your comments are way too obvious. Just because you pretend to shit on fpga in the same comment doesn't mean people aren't going to recognize you simping for the shitty devs.
He is right though, he is not selling copyrighted work but an emulator he developed himself that contains his own code. It could be argued though that he surely used MAME sourcecode and others decapping/die analysis work as reference for writing his FPGA cores so it's kinda dishonest to pretend it's his own work only but MAME license permits what, so...
If you want to be taken seriously, don't use 14-years old bullshit arguments, simple as that.
>but MAME license permits
Not that anon, but MAME should be public domain. Anyone who loads a cab full of roms and sells it is based.
>paying for emulation
Only suckers buy a MiSTer. Glad I saved myself hundreds by not buying a MiSTer.
Hundreds huh? About $615 if I'm not mistaken?
Correct.
Not according to MiSTerAddOns.
Conspiracy theories doesn't debunk the reality of the insane price tag for emulating 16 bit consoles.
Everybody has their own priorities.
>Not according to MiSTerAddOns.
Dumb frick logic. The existence of a higher end, expensive (overpriced) build sold by a single person doesn’t mean you can’t put a MiSTer build together for half the price elsewhere.
Its cheap only a few hundred dollars . compared to the apple vision pro Its a steal
The usual suspects have arrived
are we shilling youtubers now?
Chill man. Just providing some comparison tests people have done
>Video Game Esoterica
>too moronic for MAME
pay the brainlet toll
If price wasn't a factor. Which one would you choose then?
Wait you paid for the box and still have to pay for games?? Oh nononononono do FiSTerbros really???
Let's hope Mars will be a genuine project
>I hate the MiSTer dev community so much.
Me too, all these new hardware engineers using scopes and logic analysers, decapping chips and making a concerted effort to make things as accurate as possible. Information that will make all emulation better as it’s open source. Fricking buttholes.
>A game I like was released and of course it's exclusive to Patreon subs.
An unfinished beta was released to patreons to test. Once it’s finished the game becomes freely available.
>hate how these buttholes take advantage of that and make money off the player base.
You have seen all the software emu devs with patreon accounts right? They were doing this shit before the FPGA devs lol.
>make things as accurate as possible
There are quite a few cores that don't strive for accuracy at all.
>There are quite a few cores that don't strive for accuracy at all.
Name core where the dev had knowledge or the ability to make it better but chose not to.
The TMNT core. The publicly available one.
So why were all the custom chips from the PCB decapped and traced out which took months of work, you’re telling me that despite all that effort they aren't striving for accuracy? It’s also not fully released yet and still in beta status, is that really the best example you could come up with?
>Fricking buttholes.
Yes they are, they are e-begging douchebags.
Meanwhile emulator authors, pic related.
Why is this goddamn board so broken?>
I keep trying to remove
and it wont let me
>Fricking buttholes
Yes they are, they are e-begging douchebags.
Meanwhile emulator authors, pic related.
>he never encountered one of the many shareware emulators
keep seething itt
schizo
>Meanwhile emulator authors, pic related.
And there are plenty of FPGA devs who don't have a patreon for the exact same reason. Both FPGA and software devs are just as likely to have, or not have a Patreon.
But most FPGA devs are Patreon e-beggers
>Both FPGA and software devs are just as likely to have, or not have a Patreon.
This is disengenuous bullshit
FPGA devs are far more likely to have a Patreon
>FPGA devs are far more likely to have a Patreon
Now THIS is disingenuous bullshit
Buying hardware to decap and analyze the chips costs money. Also the economy is shit for workers in many countries and people need to eat to write code for emulator toys.
You already have every game you could want emulated for free in Retroarch. Now frick off and quit trying to spread your own misery to others.
Sorgelig is working on an analog board revision which will render 24bit properly, that will be a nice addition.
FGPA Everdrive>Steam Deck>>Aya Neo pro>>Aya Neo Air>Recalbox>Ayn Odin 2>>Ayn Loki Max>>Asus ROG Ally>Retroid Pocket 4 Pro Pocket 4>Win600>Retroid Pocket 3/3+>>Ayn Loki Max>Anbernic RG552>Odroid>>Ayn Loki>Raspberry Pi>Homebrewed and CFW-injected PS Vita A13>>KTR1 X28>Caanoo>Bactocera>Aya Neo regular>RP2S Mini Flip RG505>MARS>Miyoo Mini +>Trimui Smart Pro>Powkiddy A12>>Ayn Odin>Powkiddy X18S>Powkiddy RK2023 353v>Anbernic 405m 353p>Anbernic 351p Pocket 2/2+>Powkiddy RGB 30MAX 35XX+>Lakka and CFW injected 3DS Mini>>Game Park 32>>CFW-injected PSP>Minisforum>Anbernic RG35XX>>Revo k101 330>Powkiddy RGB 20S RGB 10 Max>Dingoo 320>Pocket Boy R36S>Anbernic RG 405v v90 Pocket Pocket 1>Pocket Boy R33S>Playdate>Data Frog SF2000 q80>Gamebox SP
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MisterTrannies are a bunch of neckbeards trying to make money
If you want to output to a CRT use a powerful PC to emulate in combination with Groovy Mister
BigBlueFrontend called these troons out
>BigBlueFrontend called these troons out.
And literally everything he said about how the community would react proved to be completely wrong. All that video does is make him look like a paranoid, conspiracy minded weirdo. Which to be fair is what he is lol.
based mister gatekeeping the 3rd world goblins from our hobby
brazillians can just buy a real md.
yea, that's why they're all in here seething about the mister
>seething
you're being laughed at.
lmfao
definitely not mad
>assuming everyone here that criticizes the MiSTer is brazilian
I've been called so much different stuff already that I can't even bother anymore. I wonder what conspiracy your kind will create next time.
all your doing is admitting you're here to be annoying with this post
All I'm doing is trying to engage in some sort of sane discussion, but you (plural) create all kinds of bizarre headcanons, while not addressing any criticism. I don't even post in every thread, but it's always like this, nothing changes.
good frick off
I unironically will. That's just (another) proof MiSTer is a snake-oil device for deranged minds. You can't even think straight.
btfo
You already coughed up $650 to emulate, they know they can get more money out of you reddit paypiggies.
>$650
$350
>350
715
$615
Damn that’s an insane vale proposition for what you get. $1k+ for a CPS2 darksoft kit, $500 for an AES flash cart or a $350-$615 MiSTer build, thank frick for the DE-10 Nano and MiSTer.
An MVS 160 in 1 cart is $50. Darksoft shit is hilariously overpriced, you can get equivalent solutions from China for a fraction of the price.
A lot of those games on that cart are broken and/or hacks
Got a link to Chinese equivalents to Darksofts CPS2 multi, that’s news to me. Even if cheaper carts exist for those it still doesn’t mean MiSTer isn’t anything but a must own if you are into 90’s arcade games.
Or I can custom build a gaming PC and emulate.
>paying for emulation
Emulation is free and PC can do more than emulation. It can do photoshopping, video editting, modern gaming, audio editing, and so many other programs. If I wanted to pay for emulation alone, I'd buy a MiSTer.
You don't buy a MiSTer, you buy an FPGA and install a piece of software called MiSTer on it. Let's have a look at what you can do with an FPGA. You can do can do photoshopping, video editting, modern gaming, audio editing, and so many other programs. You can even run a program on it to calculate how much you paid to emulate on your PC.
>modern gaming on FPGA
Fake news. Lol nice try scammer.
They aren’t wrong, you just need a super beefy FPGA.
Well a DE-10 certainly ain't beefy.
>Video editing on a mister
How much do they pay you Chinese shills?
>The Apple Afterburner Card is a FPGA-based PCIe 3.0 x16 board that accelerates the decoding of video streams encoded using the ProRes and ProRes RAW video codecs. ProRes is commonly used throughout the Mac video editing ecosystem, including in Final Cut Pro X, QuickTime Player X, and numerous third-party programs. Once installed into Mac Pro’s PCIe 3.0 x16 slot, an Afterburner card can support playback of up to 6 streams of 8K ProRes RAW, or up to 23 streams of 4K ProRes RAW, which, suffice it to say, is incredibly useful in the video post-production industry.
We're talking about the mister (de-10) which is Intel based (Intel for video editing LMFAO), not an apple ecosystem.
No, we were actually talking about FPGAs, which is what MiSTer is installed on it says so right here
Don't cry now that you've been proven wrong. Just sit there in your wrongness being wrong.
This
Is my post in the thread and I specifically said the mister which is using a DE10 nano. Again how much are you Chinese shills getting paid?
Yes that is your post and it is in reply to my post
which specifically explains how everything a PC can do, an FPGA can do better. Hence why PCs routinely employ FPGAs to do, amongst other things, edit fricking videos.
Yeah and the mister doesn't do that you moron shill. Which is specifically what I was referring to
I get you fell for a scam but let's not fool people into thinking the mister can edit video or do handle any real load of Photoshop.
It's like saying a car can do video editing because it has a tablet using ARM inside of it. Baboon mentality
Have fun editing videos in mame, moron.
So basically I don't need a MiSTer if PC's already "employ" FPGA?
And do you have a FPGA-based card in your PC?
Also, good luck hooking that card up to the analog out and SNAC if it's in a PC, because using the PC's own video out or USB will have similar latency issues as software emulation.
I have no idea, but I have no motivation to use analog out. My PC was built with 4K output in mind. It is compatible to many modern games including Resident Evil 2/3 remake. I haven't tested the RE4 remake since I hate RE4.
https://www.patreon.com/LukeUsher
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byuu of your precious snes emulator took numerous donations in snes carts and boxes and when he was done scanning them all, he refused to upload them for the public and then sold the entire collection for $20,000 for himself
you're acting like software emulator authors have never taken money for their projects
>I hate MAME and using MiSTer is a much better experience
the fact you didn't mention the game is a red flag that the game works perfectly fine in mame and you just like mister because it has a better UI.
CPS1 & 2, MAME has no DMA timings at all and no CPU wait state emulation, many games run at the wrong speed or have inaccurate slowdown. It’s not hard to read up on all the improvements that have been made on the arcade side of things, this stuff has been around long enough now that there really no excuse for the lack of knowledge repeatedly shown in these threads.
It's not just about the UI, the UX is the most important and that is also far better in mister. And I did mention the game, it's Parodius but I would rather kill myself than deal with mame.
>you just like mister because it has a better UI
Not him but yeah.
I don't care about FPGA shit it's just so much nicer to use, especially on a CRT. Also the sound is better
I regularly have to go back to mame because I need save states to grind individual levels in shmups and it's a b***h to use. Slightly nicer now with groovymister though, I don't have to go through crtemu bullshit at least.
he did mentiond the game moron
>A game I like was released and of course it's exclusive to Patreon subs.
You mean the beta? Just wait a month man
Daily reminder that MiSTer's so-called advantages regarding latency only happen if plugged into a CRT (thus, it's the latter which actually provides the benefits). If plugged into a regular LCD screen or monitor, a MiSTer has the same latency of any decent PC properly configured.
It has an input and audio latency advantage as well as the HDMI scaler only having 4 scanlines of lag, your PC can’t match that. It’s advantages are there regardless of what screen you use. Then there’s stuff like the gate level MegaDrive emulation that would run at 5fps on the best CPU you could buy, but absolutely trivial for an FPGA. The advantages are demonstrably true, there’s nothing so-called about any of it lmao.
2 frames of input lag, just like any properly-configured PC. That's MiSTer without a CRT. So much for "demonstrably true". It's alright if you spent money unwisely on a MiSTer, we all make some kind of blunder from time to time, no need to cope, just sell it to someone else.
imagine spending weeks of your life in RetroArch's menus
>weeks of your life
A single minute, probably less. Even if you're absolutely clueless about emulation, just blindly following a tutorial will still take you a minute. You can't possibly be dumber than that.
>now that i've punished myself enough, I can say that I genuinely enjoy punishment
LMAO that's not what that lag test is supposed to be used for. It's a display lag test not input lag and needs two separate displays.
>Screen has a frame counter
>Press a button and the frame stops
>Count how many frames it took after your input
>"noooooooo! you can't use it as a input lag test! it makes my mister looks bad"
That could just be lag built into the display he's using. Dickhead doesn't even mention what display he has in the description.
Of course it's the display lag. That's the whole point. MiSTer does no magic. Shills act like it's a magical device, just conveniently forgetting to mention you'll also need a CRT and a few snac adapters and original controllers; otherwise, everything will be just like a regular PC, with no benefits whatsoever.
>you'll also need a CRT
I already had CRTs, which is why I bought a Mister. it's simply the best solution
You still get no audio latency, you still have everything running synchronously, You still have a scaler with virtually zero latency, you still have hardware that can run things at full speed that current CPU’s are nowhere near fast enough to run. There are always benefits, even if you don’t have a CRT or use SNAC.
>You still have a scaler with virtually zero latency, you still have hardware that can run things at full speed that current CPU’s are nowhere near fast enough to run
What does a "scaler" has to do with a PC? Maybe if you're comparing with the original consoles, but I used to play mine on CRTs (just like all my friends and other people I knew), so it's a moot point. And what you mean about "run things at full speed"? Like, "a PC can't run this Mega Drive game without chugging"? I don't think this is even a troll, you probably believe that. Does the MiSTer community brainwashes people? My God...
>ESL
not reading
>not reading
lol not even an argument. I accept your concession.
> What does a "scaler" has to do with a PC?
Dimwit says MiSTer has 2 frames of lag, just like a PC because they misinterpreted a YouTube video. I told them that the MiSTers scaler is virtually lagless and an advantage of FPGA over PC.
> Like, "a PC can't run this Mega Drive game without chugging"?
You don’t emulate games, you emulate hardware they ran on. In the case of the FPGA MegaDrive and Neogeo cores they are transistor level accurate, built from 100% decapped chip schematic's. You can’t run that full speed on CPU’s with todays clock speeds, there is a software version of the MegaDrive work and it runs at 1-2fps on the average CPU. If you aren’t bothered about emulation being at such a low level of accuracy or appreciate that FPGA’s can run those task so effortlessly that’s cool, there are plenty of other good options out there instead.
>low level of accuracy
Now you're arguing in bad faith. Accuracy is pretty high in software emulation. If you had just typed "not-perfect accuracy", that would be fine.
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/High/Low_level_emulation
Lmao you don’t understand the terminology being used, I was referring to the MiSter MD core being low level, then said other options are good too.
Judging by your article, then "low-level" means accurate (instead of the faster-but-innacurate high-level emulation), and, if that's what PC emulators are (according to your own words), then they're... fine? I don't know what's your point. Is it bad or good?
>if that's what PC emulators are (according to your own words)
I never said this, I twice referred to MiSTer’s MD emulation being low level.
>Judging by your article, then "low-level" means accurate (instead of the faster-but-innacurate high-level emulation
No, not exactly, that's just the more likely end result.
A low level emulator emulates the hardware. It basically builds a virtual (insert system here, let's say SNES) in software as close as the author can and then runs the ROM code on it. It's blind for the most part in the game being played, it's just trying to emulate the hardware. The end result of this is that it CAN be more accurate, but also less compatible(for games that need a feature that is not supported in the emulator) and run slower.
High level emulators go more on a per-game basis than just try to replicate the entire system. They see what game is being run and try to just get that rom image to run on your system, this can involve only emulating the parts needed, taking shortcuts, applying hacks in the background to bypass parts the emulator does not support, etc. This can lead to faster emulation, but it's less accurate, and it can trip it up if it's a game that the emulator is not coded for. Ryujinx vs Yuzu is a good example. Ruujinx is more low level, Yuzu is more high level, which is why games tend to run better in Yuzu... unless they are new, in which case they might not run at all in Yuzu but can run in Ryujinx. This was the case for several recent Switch leaks.
>you can't use it as a input lag test!
Correct, because it’s a reaction test, I can hit zero frames on an unoptimised PC setup after getting the timing down, it’s meaningless.
That's not the reaction test, dumbo. What you think is called "manual lag test", and it's the one in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjMXQv4Cud4
I know which test you are referring to, I also know that isn’t how you use it, which someone else has already told you too. MiSTer’s scaler is virtually lagless, even over HDMI, a PC setup can’t match it.
PC is so far behind in this area that GroovyMAME is now getting more traction, it sends a video bitstream from compatible software emulators over Ethernet straight to the MiSter, which then outputs it with less latency than if it went out through the PC’s GPU.
>which then outputs it with less latency than if it went out through the PC’s GPU.
What? Why would sending analog signal through GPU be slower than sending it over to mister, which in that case acts as another discrete GPU? It's basically the same shit
Because an FPGA is that much faster at processing the image for output, there’s nothing between whatever the core is running and the scaler which is virtually lagless. This stuff is the absolute basics of why FPGA’s are so ideal for the task, I can’t believe people are still questioning this.
>Because an FPGA is that much faster at processing the image for output
Why? How? What is the FPGA exactly doing to make it faster than your GPU
>there’s nothing between whatever the core is running and the scaler which is virtually lagless
Also don't understand this. Your GPU is taking the video data and sending analog signal, there's nothing to additionally process or scale, since even for digital signals you can force your GPU if it does any sort of scaling or your monitor screen.
And ultimately, how much faster are we talking about here?
>Why? How? What is the FPGA exactly doing to make it faster than your GPU
Not going through an API for one
See
If it still doesn’t make sense it means you don’t understand how computers work on a fundamental level. Pic related could help.
>What is the FPGA exactly doing to make it faster than your GPU
It's more what it isn't doing. It isn't going through software APIs, Isn't running with your OS and other software in the background, isn't trying to have parallel timings in a single software thread, etc.
It can just act like the hardware directly, while software emulation has a lot of roadblocks and retours in the way just due to the nature of it being a software application running under an OS and other hardware it has to interface with.
>Your GPU is taking the video data and sending analog signal
All the above has already happened before the GPU ever even gets an image, so it has had additional lag before it can even display anything, and GPUs aren't just a direct connection from the CPU to your screen either, there is processing to be done even just to display the image on your screen that wasn't there in the original hardware.
Basically you have to do a lot of extra steps while many other things are getting in your way in software emulation.
Being able to sync the core to scanout is the reason FPGAs have better video latency. If you render a framebuffer on your CPU/GPU and display it with the FPGA's DAC, it'll be just as laggy.
Those are the 240p test suite’s reaction tests, using what looks to be a USB controller. That’s not how you measure the latency of the scaler or controller, which ideally is using SNAC to connect directly to the FPGA for original hardware response. If you are getting 2 frames it’s because you are using a buffered output option.
https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_MiSTer/advanced/lag/#:~:text=The%20MiSTer%20scaler%20has%20options,being%20more%20compatible%20with%20displays.
Here we go again, another pointless thread about a $600-750 emulator power supply unit cased box or whatever the hell that ugly thing is. The MiSTer is a total scam, just use a PC and download emulators.
the best thing about the mister threads is the constant flow of complete morons coming in and posting like they're experts on the topic
Emulation on PC can deliver low latency and with Groovy, very low latency. However what FPGA can deliver is identical latency by creating an end-to-end electrical circuit from controller to display that accurately represents the original system. This is the nature of FPGA it just works differently than software.
Seriously, why doesn't he atleast release the Turtles build for free now? It's been finished for months
MiSTer hooked up to my CRT is enough to fool my senses into thinking that I actually do have all those systems hooked up all at once, just all in one box. It’s not quantifiable but it works for me.
Software emulation never accomplished that for me. There was always a layer of abstraction somewhere
>it costs $615 tho!
Like I didn't just spend £910 on a GPU alone 2 weeks ago. Stop being poor.
Cool, what games are you playing on your new GPU?
DayZ.
>shitting in every thread
Oh great some anon has mental illness and is projecting again. Please leave. You are not needed.
Anon, I don't even post in every thread.
Have a good day, butthole.
You fell for the audiophile equivalent of retro gaming. You were scammed from the start.
except there's video proof how shit mame is vs hardware vs the mister
what the hell is happening in here