I just remembered the Leagues of Votann are an actual faction in Warhammer 40k
never seen anyone play them and haven't seen any discussion on them in a very long time, so for a moment I was unsure if GW adding fantasy dwarfs to 40k actually happened or if it was just a weird dream that I had
I just checked the lexicanum and yup, they're a real faction
weird
low effort bait postin but heres a (you) for any newfrens reading. they've been out for less than a year, thats fricking no time for GW. Model life cycles is a roughly 3 year process and of course a brand new faction that hasn't be touched for 30 years of course their lore will be a lot less.
When they were announced and it was revealed the Votann were giant computers running out of RAM everyone here thought that was really funny and different spin on squats that made them feel 40k. They are the long lost men of stone from the DAoT is another cool touch.
I really like the Votann culture being based on ver early germanic flavoured Indo-European culture. Hence the runes and golden horse heads, I hope GW has a few deep history nerds left that understands indo-european culture so we see more of it reflected in future Votann stuff
shut up nerd
So GW really has paid shills working here, huh.
If you haven’t noticed, there are literally GW shills that try to get people to buy out their old shitty models with claims of “SOVL” and other stupid buzzwords
>paid shill
A shill is someone who posts for money you moron. An unpaid shill is just a regular fan.
>I really like the Votann culture being based on ver early germanic flavoured Indo-European culture
Cringe. They already fricked up pandering to the furries with the space wolves. What the hell is indo-european anyway how you even define that.
Shut the frick up.
based.
>What the hell is indo-european anyway how you even define that.
Just because you can't read doesn't mean the rest of us can't
>reddit spacing
>countersignalling Indo-European heritage
erm... yikes! I don't give a frick about squats btw
>I really like the Votann culture being based on ver early germanic flavoured Indo-European culture. Hence the runes and golden horse heads, I hope GW has a few deep history nerds left that understands indo-european culture so we see more of it reflected in future Votann stuff
Instead you will get more robots that are stand-ins for LGBTQ folx.
>When they were announced and it was revealed the Votann were giant computers running out of RAM everyone here thought that was really funny and different spin on squats that made them feel 40k.
Sure. It was the rest of their backstory that's the problem.
>I really like the Votann culture being based on ver early germanic flavoured Indo-European culture.
Not noticeable at all on 90% of their models.
Well, you're certainly no history nerd. Horses and golden knot patterns have nothing to do with ancient Indo-Europeans, they're the most basic symbols of the Anglo-Saxon culture. Every kid in England knows the Saxons loved horses, and a fair few have even seen these horses depicted on the hills.
>Well, you're certainly no history nerd. Horses and golden knot patterns have nothing to do with ancient Indo-Europeans
lol at the projection since this statement shows you have no idea about indo-europeans and you just proved my point.
I called them early germanic indo-europeans and then you cite anglo-saxons having a culture of golden horse heads and runes.
Anon both angol and saxons were descendents of Germans who were descendents of indo-europeans, where do you think they got their culture from? Indo-europeans had LOADS of horse and runic imagery, and swastikas and that cultural connection was there all the way down to anglo-saxon times.
>based on ver early germanic flavoured Indo-European culture
In what possilbe sense?
They have a few pity vaugely norse looking dragon elements and a unit or two called something along the lines of Tunngeard Oeathkyn.
>indo-european lore
not at all lmao if you're implying that W40 would genuinely embrace such nazi bs in those early 2020s i have one word for you: lmao
>runes
sweetie, it's clearly just a futuristic-looking font...
your post is 100 times more /pol/ b8 than OP
i don't know what you are schizo babbling about but Votann are obviously pre-christian English inspired. So yes they use runes.
They where released with incredibly powercreeped weapon stats to encourage tournamant autists to buy them, so much so that german tournaments banned them. GW then amended the super guns so they werent so super and the tournament autists moaned a bit but then moved to the next 'game winning' meta, like they always do.
Turns out that despite the memes, people didn't actually care that much about Squats. They're lame.
Their new aesthetics don't match the old ones at all and are unrecognisable as Squats. They're ugly.
Players did care about their ridiculously pushed stats before they were released. So they got nerfed hard.
Now they're weak, ugly AND lame so of course nobody cares.
Squats are good
Votann is bad
Learn the difference.
If Squats are so good, how come they were squatted?
>why did gw corporate make a moronic decision
truly a mystery for the ages
Because GW thinks 40k is srs business and tries to kill anything remotely fun.
GW was, in fact, a small indie company back when they were squatted. They were removed because the creative staff hated them, as stated in no uncertain terms by Jervis Johnson - the man who wrote them in Epic, the only iteration where they weren't total ass.
Hello newfriends.
>Turns out that despite the memes, people didn't actually care that much about Squats.
False
>Their new aesthetics don't match the old ones at all and are unrecognisable as Squats.
Correct
If Voltann were proper space dwarves doing space dwarf shit I would main them in a heartbeat.
Funny thing is I'm almost positive that Deep Rock Galactic's success is what convinced GW that Squats were viable, as they admitted at one point that models take two years from conception to release, with Leagues of Votann showing up out of the blue roughly 2 years after DRG came out.
And then they fricked it up.
I'm willing to bet if GW wasn't so fricking greedy and actually went to the DRG devs and cut a deal with them to use their stuff, they would likely have made bank together.
Think about all the shit they could have done. A KT map in the DRG HQ, the big driller thing they ride in, make up some BS lore about the DRZG bugs being offshoot nids so they could be picked up by nids players if they wanted to, woulda been great.
Instead we have beardless short clones.
Not everything has to be 40k, you obsessed fricktard. I hope you fricking have a nice day.
Why do you even assume they would want to collab with GW instead of doing their own thing?
Because 40k is the greatest franchise of all time and has the best lore. Who wouldn't want to be part of that.
The more 40k something is, the more epic it is. You're just an indie tabletop game developer who got jealous of GW's success. You will be a GW slave soon when we switch to anarcho-capitalism
> I would main
Stopped reading there.
Fricking homosexual millennial
That's most of the site.
>people wanted squats back
>they released some generic, lazy, uninspired, designed-by-commitee slop in its place
>people ignore it
>h-heh, guess they didnt want squats after all huh 😉
anon, I...
Sasuga moron-kun. If you read my post I spelled out that
>I'm not making a claim as to whether it actually was a phantom audience
Specifically to preempt morons like you. But I guess some IQs are just too low.
Kharadron won
Not a high bar, anon.
>Not a high bar
We're talking about dwarfs after all
Because GW thought people wanted Squats back, but, if we're operating under the assumption it wasn't a largely phantom audience (and I'm not making any claim to whether it was or wasn't), then what people wanted back were squats; not the Battle Train-less "Leagues of Votann".
Here’s the problem though.
How do you make a battle train actually look good to new consumers?
More to the point, how the frick do you slot one into 40K rather than epic?
Kill Team or Necromunda.
This is not a squat. This is a college freshman ree-ing at someone for being white. Them being the same height and physical proportions is irrelevant.
Oh and like always the polshit comes out
It's not polshit to say a duck is a duck.
Just pointing at a female model and immediately saying some low IQ comment about muh feminism is polbait. It offers no real substance and only exists to stir up political drama because of the stupid culture war shit you buttholes have brought into this hobby.
Here is your (you) fricker
>we're making space dwarves!
>Here's their leader, they have no beard, pink hair, and that half shaved head trash haircut every screaming they/them has
>To point out this isn't a dwarf is polshit
>Pink hair
You can paint your models how you want. The punk haircut has always been a thing in warhammer. Go look at the original goliaths and esher and tell me it’s just new. I am not trying to be a dick but dealing with you frickers constantly sets me off. Every thread seems to devolve into this shit and I don’t understand what it is you guys are complaining about other than women in warhammer.
>I don’t understand what it is you guys are complaining about other than women in warhammer.
Because that is not what's being said, so the lack of understanding is on you.
it's literally just girls existing, they hate it
>you frickers constantly sets me off
>You can paint your models how you want
Doesn't change the shitty daddy issues haircut or pigface
>noooo don't shittalk the ugly model
>punk haircut has always been a thing... in necromunda
your types are always so desperate.
Look it's just that "having giant rending claws has always been a thing in the tyranid range so let's give everyone those" is the sort of argument made by a genestealer, so don't act surprised you're getting boltgunned by the true heroes of story here.
... that's a woman?
as envisioned by British artist
>shows up
>shits up the hobby and models with libtard politics
>existing fanbase: "hey we like 40k how it was before you"
>STOP MAKING THE HOBBY POLITICAL
Look at her hairstyle, it is literally the kind of hideous godawful crap that some liberal arts college student would get.
>he's right behind me isn't he?
Votann girls frick gors.
>GW adds dwarves back into 40k
>a lot of arguing about everything
>GW adds beastmen into 40k
>no one complains about the idea of designs
What happened here?
Personally, I would have made them literally Fantasy Beastmen since the idea of these primitive motherfrickers rolling out with their shitty archaic weaponry being an actual threat is hilarious to me. The beastpaths could exist and allow them to travel between world without needing space ships. Honestly, it wouldn't even surprise me if rather than all being chaos mutants, they're actually descendants of furrys who got way too much into gene modding.
nu-squats were doomed the moment beards went to the way side to make room for black female dwarves
Lorelet here, Beastmen used to be a thing in 40k, and their design is pretty great, just regular beastmen kitbashed with 40k stuff
How do you gauge the popularity of a faction when most of the players are marine frickers. Also what value dose a faction being popular even have again the most popular faction is marines
They have a huge presence in tournaments and they're talked about all the time (just look at your thread). But they haven't gotten a new release since they were released so what do you expect, they don't have any major lore books yet either.
All they had to do was make an army using the necromunda styled ones they released. That's all they had to do, not another imperium lite faction
People wanted squats, not terran.
>Generic biker dwarfs, half of them have space marine gear and half have imperial guard gear
Did people actually want that shit or was it just a meme spread by grogs who like to pretend they were playing 40K during Desert Storm?
truth is, nobody wanted either, fricking dorfs or sqaugs, WHO GIVES A FRICK
I wanted dorfs or squats. Lots of other people did as well. But literally nobody was asking for StarCraft Fun-Sized Edition.
What game was Starcraft inspired by again?
An old Dune RTS, why do you ask?
wasnt starcraft originally developed to be a 40k ip game but GW pulled the rug out from under them and they wrote the whole plot of starcraft in like 9 months?
I love how this urban legend gets more ridiculous and moronic every time it gets repeated.
its not an urban legend completely. Blizzard did approach GW twice for their IP, but GW refused to give up final story control so no deal was ever reached.
Orcs and Humans was 100% supposed to be a WFB game in the same way Command and Conquer was supposed to be Dune 3.
Multiple blizzard employees have stated this in record in multiple interviews, citing the shittiness of working on other IPs and not having story control.
>Blizzard did approach GW twice for their IP, but GW refused to give up final story control so no deal was ever reached.
The story I heard from the same source as the other stuff was they were internally discussing or in talks with GW over a WHF RTS but ultimately decided against it over the reasons you mentioned, namely growing their own IPs instead. But like you also said, this was for Orcs and Humans, not Starcraft. By Starcraft's time Blizzard was a well established brand of their own and had no reason to seek out IP deals to boost product visibility.
So yeah, Blizzard has plenty of Warhammer DNA in them, but I'd say it shows up far more prevalently in early Warcraft and Diablo (which may as well be a Witch Hunter ARPG) than it does in Starcraft. Not to say that Stsrcraft doesn't still have fragments of 40K in it, but it's also far more generic stuff that could be attributed to any of the things 40K itself lifted from other sources, like convict-consceipts or even just space marines. Hell, Starcraft doesn't even really call their marines specifically space marines, they just call them marines or even 'rines. They're about as far from deified supersoldiers of 40K aside from both are marines who happen to operate in space (something 40K's Space Marines hardly actually do, honestly)
I have never seen Sisters of Battle, Death Guard, Genestealers and Drukhari, and they are real armies too.
>FRICK, we have two Mary Sue factions for the bad guys and only one for the good guys. What do we do?
And that's how LoV were born
So many worthless trolling c**ts lying in this thread yet again
Remember how they made a really big deal about Ironkin in the build up to the Votann release then when it actually happened Ironkin felt like an afterthought?
That was weird
Dwarves are not popular. Never have been.
Bait
They're not. They have a very vocal but tiny following. This is one of the reasons why even in GW's fantasy game, they have no idea what to do with them.
idk about being unpopular. but you're absolutely right in that even in fantasy they never knew what to do with them.
even mechanically, giving them all movement 3 was provably the single biggest handicap in the whole game. and giving them lore accurate strengths to offset their huge weakness would make them really boring to play against.
their popularity is absolutely dwarfed by Humans and Elf popularity, but as far as fantasy races go they're not exactly niche
the pun was intended
If I'm not mistaken this isn't even up to date. Tieflings and dragonborn absolutely mog dwarves now.
table needs to be labelled most played instead of most popular
assimar would 100% be super popular if they weren't a "DM said no" tier race
That's for BG3, I don't think they have Aasimar
They were one of the least popular races in BG3, but I think that has a lot more to do with the quality of the Dwarf models and character creation options. Plus, the game having romances might've been a huge factor, because all of the short races were dead last in terms of popularity.
just looked it up and damn, you weren't kidding
normies absolutely don't give a shit about dwarfs, imagine getting mogged this hard by dragonborn, tieflings, drow and even the fricking half-orcs
jesus
Dwarfs aren't for sex, and BG3 is a sex game. no one wants to watch dwarfs frick, not even total pervs. This is why there's an almost total drought of dwarf women art.
I guarantee the more something focuses on romance, the more dwarf players drop like flies.
>half-elf edging out humans
humanbros, what went wrong?
>humanbros, what went wrong?
Human females in bg3 are ugly while half elf females can look alright. That's it.
To be honest, I don´t understand why people seem not to hate them. I surely do. They don´t resemble Squats, but are just as ugly. And both are way too lazy attempts to make something from fantasy scifi.
>Vacuum cleaner bikers
Why would I pick this faction? I'm not looking for a carpet cleaning army. Not in my WH40K.
Their lore is too Mary Sue and bland.
>We do some of the best tech
>We are improving and progressing our tech
>We are borderline Chaos immune
>We are actually nice to our citizens
>We can live in deep space where no-one else can lol
>We are happy friendly with Tau and Eldar
>We are reasonable not like those silly unreasonable imperium boys tee hee
They don't fit the setting yet, GW needs to play up some negative qualities. It would be best if they made them borderline autistic, and full of hubris.
And visually, 75% of their models don't look like what everyone wanted - "dwarves in space" - and also don't look like Squats used to look like with the biker aesthetic.
Instead most Votann models just look like fricking midget Starcraft. They look like generic sci-fi.
There is potential here, it can improve, but the current iteration is disappointing.
I forgot to mention it really pisses me off that they also have functional, independent, super advanced AI that hasn't gone rogue like the Men of Iron or been corrupted by Chaos, and unlike Tau/Eldar AIs, are smarter than the Votann themselves and have more power in their society.
The Imperium built their whole society around organic computing technology because the Dark Age of Technology, which the Votann are even implied to be f from, showed you can't trust general AI. Yet the Votann having AI at all levels of society with no issues ruins that entire cool element of world building.
>The Imperium built their whole society around organic computing technology because the Dark Age of Technology howed you can't trust general AI
Anon the DAoT/ Golden Age of Technology was the time before the Men of Iron rebellion. The men of Stone that is the Votann broke off from humanity before this occured. They never had a war of extermination againt their AI hence why ironkin are still around to day and seen as equals to flesh and blood clone.
Having a race worship AI I think does fit 40k, not being able to turn them off or reboot them while also depending on thjem for your civilisation to function is grimdark version of that, if you don't like it then thats just your preference, but like the Tau, necrons or dark eldar they fit into the 40k universe themetically
But anon this has been the case for multiple factions, the tau, eldar, and necron all have AI tech without it going rogue or being corrupted. The moral of the story is the Imperium is a moronic cargo cult doing things because of what tradition states and not that they are actually right.
You didn't read the part where it said "unlike Eldar and Tau, the AI is so highly advanced it is allowed to have significant control in society".
Votann AI is put into walking talking bodies with opposable thumbs that can do nearly everything a Kin can.
Tau and Eldar AI are limited to specific functions. They aren't general, learning, self aware AI like the Votann have.
thats wrong, votann ironkin are merely mimicing people they are not selfaware
Eldar AI are literal souls of Eldar so are self aware
>votann ironkin are merely mimicing people they are not selfaware
Read the codex, the Ancestor Cores are self-aware.
>Eldar AI are literal souls of Eldar
That's not an AI.
Ironkin and ancestor cores two different things...
I know. They're still AI, which is what the point was.
Starcraft is the genericized, Blizzardified, Fischer Price version of Space Marines, correct. That doesn't make it a good thing for Votann to look like Starcraft.
>Starcraft is the genericized, Blizzardified, Fischer Price version of Space Marines, correct
Not really at all, but keep seething.
>Nuh-uh!
The state of Blizzard fans.
They're just seething that a single horse in WoW made more money than Starcraft 2. Kinda the opposite to 40k/Fantasy situation GW had.
Besides from both being space marines, they aren't all that similar. 40k marines are genetically engineered warrior monks, while SC marines are often a penal regiment situation. They don't even look all that similar. SC2 was a shameful travesty though and deserved to sell worse that a WoW horse.
>can't read the thread where it was discussed in detail
But hey, keep seething
I think you've slightly missed what the Votann are meant to represent.
They're a less degraded reflection of what Humanity was pre 40k and everything being grimdark. They're meant to show how bad the Imperium has become by showing another human faction (Men of Stone after all, they're a clone race engineered by ancient humans, they're not xeno)
>We do some of the best tech
Same tech as the imperium once had, they've just equally distributed the knowledge of how to make it, unlike the imperium with the mechanicus CULT (named to reference all the negative shit you think of when you hear cult) hoarding all information and having a monoply on eveything tech related and outlawing
>We are improving and progressing our tech
Don't think they can improve their technology, they just know enough to prevent the loss of their current tech level
>We are borderline Chaos immune
Close knit tribal/family groups means people don't feel totally lost and searching for meaning like imperials and try to find in chaos cults. Also everyones close so if someone turns to chaos they are found out faster, they're not immune.
>We are actually nice to our citizens
Again to highlight just how far the Imperium has fallen, the most brutual and bloodthirsty regime imaginable, of course the Votaan would be nicer in comparsion
>We are happy friendly with Tau and Eldar
Again thats the point of the Votann, just because they're are hostile xeno threats doesn''t mean all xenos have to be treateds the same, they don't make pointless enemies
>We are reasonable not like those silly unreasonable imperium boys tee hee
Yes thats the League of Votann, they're another form of human civilisation in the DAoT/post apocalypse. The Imperium was not meant to be in the form it currently is and it could have avoided being the way it is, its a tragedy the imperium has become the way it is and the Votann show that
>Close knit tribal/family groups means people don't feel totally lost and blah blah blah
Nice fanfiction, but Votann are literally chaos resistant on the level of a tau despite having powerful psyker souls. They're printed off with "fortified souls" that renders them nigh-immune to chaos
The Warham+ lore video about the faction said that, while rare, Chaos Kin are not unheard of.
What the frick do you think the NIGH in nigh-immune means, anon? The point is chaos is not a major concern for them. Less so than it is for the tau, even.
>I think you've slightly missed what the Votann are meant to represent.
>They're a less degraded reflection of what Humanity was pre 40k and everything being grimdark
Yeah but they didn't NEED to be that. They needed to be space dwarfs. Nobody was asking GW "make up an inane social commentary on the Imperium as a whole faction!" Tau already fills a comparison niche as it is.
>Don't think they can improve on their tech
The most efficacious signatures are adopted by fellow Brôkhyr so that, over time, many Kindreds -- or even entire leagues -- have adopted bespoke methods of crafting and manufacture. This slow but relentless iterative process of improving upon already understood technologies has helped the Kin develop the contents of the original Standard Template Constructs inherited from the Ancestors' ancient Long March mining fleets even further, leading to true innovations.
You pulled most of this out of your ass, secondary.
>there's an explanation why the Votann are painfully boring
Existing to highlight the flaws of the Imperium doesn't make the Votann interesting or compelling, it just highlights how much more interesting the Imperium compared to the Votann.
I could replace Votann with Tau and this post would be almost completely identical. Sucking the dick of a goody two shoes faction (who is immune to Chaos and AI rebellion by fiat) and then using it to moralgay about how bad the Imperium is just makes you look like a secondary.
>mechanicus CULT
They worship technology. Hence they are a technology cult. Literacy.
>the most brutual and bloodthirsty regime imaginable
They're not even the most brutal regime in the setting you clown.
>Their lore is too Mary Sue and bland.
Oh please. This comming from the same setting that has Marines and fricking Custodes. Every codex fluff jerks off their respective faction.
> Yet the Votann having AI at all levels of society with no issues ruins that entire cool element of world building.
This is categorically false. The Votann super computers are degrading and range from having robot dementia to outright insanity. They weren't intended to operate independently for millennia. The Kin are compounding the degredation of the Votanns buy uploading all the accumulated cerebral data of the dead from their society.
>This comming from the same setting that has Marines and fricking Custodes.
Yes, Custodes are boring Mary Sues too, this is not a mutually exclusive thing.
Marines are bound to a faction which suffers from:
>worse tech than Votann
>technological progress stalling or stagnating
>high susceptibility to Chaos corruption
>frequently horrible, 1984-but-worse treatment of everyday citizens
>rigid xenophobia 99% of the time against the Tau and Eldar even in situations where cooperation would be mutually beneficial
Votann have none of these problems.
>The Votann super computers are degrading and range from having robot dementia to outright insanity.
The great majority neither have "robot dementia" nor "outright insanity".
Out of about 18 major and minor Leagues, only 2 have Ancestor Cores that have gone insane - Balor-Attal and Emberg-Aegnir.
The rest are fine and you can't really list that as a downside of note for them.
Let's face it; they're Mary Sues. They need more depth, more flaws, more weaknesses. GW should focus on classical dwarf hubris, stubbornness and autism. And they should have more issues with AI going haywire or falling to Chaos.
but they are like that, for example if they lose their core or get slighted they will go on a grudge crusade that will wipe themselves out.
They'll also pull out of combat when they feel its not worth it. Which appears like surrendering to their enemies.
But they are objectively one of the most powerful factions in the galaxy if not the most powerful. This isnt a strength, as they are the 3rd or 4th largest "empire" they have to resort to hiding and fooling the other major powers to prevent themselves getting sucked into a galaxy wide conflict.
>for example if they lose their core or get slighted they will go on a grudge crusade that will wipe themselves out
The "suicidally attack if slighted" part is not mentioned in their existing lore. That's Fantasy dorfs you're thinking of.
There is one mentioned grudge crusade, by the Grand Orion Compact, and they didn't wipe themselves out, they wiped out the Orks instead.
>They'll also pull out of combat when they feel its not worth it. Which appears like surrendering to their enemies.
Knowing when to cut your losses isn't a weakness. It also actively contradicts what you just mentioned above about holding grudges.
>But they are objectively one of the most powerful factions in the galaxy if not the most powerful. This isnt a strength
Re-read what you just wrote.
> they have to resort to hiding and fooling the other major powers to prevent themselves getting sucked into a galaxy wide conflict.
Being able to stay out of the way is yet another thing in their favour.
it literally is you havent read the dex.
again it literally says they abandon wars when they feel like it, the point isn't its a weakness or a strength.
Its their narrow mindedness and has nothing to do with their grudges. If they land in a warzone to do mining, then mine all they can, they'll leave.
Grudge crusades are a completely other thing.
You re-read you fricking imbecile as i explained why it isn't a strength in the next part.
>again it literally says they abandon wars when they feel like it, the point isn't its a weakness or a strength.
I already told you this is a strength relative to the Imperium, you just can't read.
>as i explained why it isn't a strength in the next part.
And I replied to that you fricking ESL subhuman.
you are a fricking idiot with a low iq that can't even understand basic English. Frick off you literal moron.
Projection. Frick off back to Facebook, ESL.
Forget about it the guys too stupid to understand even if you explain it
Meh every new faction gets a little over pushed fluff-wise at first, Necrons being the biggest offender.
one of the main league's core outright tells them to genocide aliens just because. Even assigns them quotas. The other leagues cheer them on
One. And that's barely even a weakness.
All the rest will actively trade with Tau, Eldar and minor xenos races.
>All the rest will actively trade with Tau, Eldar and minor xenos races.
that's the weakness and downside.
Are we at the point in the thread where we just post bait?
The great majority neither have "robot dementia" nor "outright insanity".
That's great my point being that the Votann freely use AI with no downsides is a false claim.
>the Votann freely use AI with no downsides
One of them went insane because its entire stronghold was killed, which isn't really a downside to the guys who are dead.
The other one is the only 1 out of 18 Leagues.
So yes, if you want to be pedantic, 1/18th of the Leagues of Votann have a downside to using advanced AI. However, to those of us who aren't, the Votann as a whole are still Mary Sues with no noticeable downsides.
Holy shit. What youre hung up on is an extreme example but they are almost all in a state of decline and data corruption. The literal thing the faction is named after. Kind of a downside when your entire culture, religion and society, is dependent on these things.
>Kind of a downside when your entire culture, religion and society, is dependent on these things.
How? The current lore from their codex doesn't show it actively being a downside for 17/18 of the active Leagues. Show me, Black person.
What the codex does say is that they have fantastic societies, advanced technology that they are continuing to advance, a great position in the galaxy, no real problems with Chaos, good relations with xenos, warp travel without needing the Astronomican, etc.
Face it, they're Mary Sues.
stfu tau gay your autistic poltard kind are a blight on 40k discussion
Seething SJW tourist calling everyone who disagrees with them pol.
i called you pol because you are a tau homosexual communist that cant stop lying. Leftypol and 40k do not mix
>Leftypol and 40k do not mix
I don't give a shit about gay ass political statements in 40K and I will promptly ignore them because I do not give a frick about them. I would like to enjoy 40K and other fantasy stuff without being beaten over the head with an agenda or message. Again, I don't give a frick about it. I just want cool armies to fight.
>fascism is based
>war is based
>theocracy is based
>imperialism is based
>fanaticism is based
i´m kinda left wing (not Commifornia left wing, i live in latin america so i dont care about homosexuals and that shit) and i have absolutely no problem in playing warhammer because is fiction, you fricking moron, its fiction, i dont need to actually agree with any fictional faction. Wow, you are another kind of moron
Basically my feelings towards 40k as well. There's nothing wrong with enjoying a setting where most factions, including the main one, are evil. It isn't real. I'm not going to make some sort of machine worshiping cult just because I like Admech.
>the humans are teh evil cause teh bad stuff happens
by your standards all of human history is evil because you are a bedwetting misanthrope that got dunked in a toilet bowl
a stupid person would see your post and think there is nothing overtly political in it.
But i know better. You are clearly yet another leftist posting political shit in 40k threads and being as sneaky as you can be about it.
>all factions are evil
You are saying this because you think the IoM, the good guys are evil.
>it isn't real
ok
>i'm not going to make a cult
Here we go this statement is the meat of the leftardation on this board. You believe there are people that will form cults if they take 40k too seriously and that scares you.
Theres so much bullshit wrapped up in posts like this. Its a call for censorship of the setting, pearl clutching etc
>You are saying this because you think the IoM, the good guys are evil.
I said most are evil (although I don't think there are any objectively good factions in the setting). But no, the IoM aren't the good guys, they're the protagonists. Just because they're the main characters, doesn't make them good.
>Here we go this statement is the meat of the leftardation on this board. You believe there are people that will form cults if they take 40k too seriously and that scares you.
>Theres so much bullshit wrapped up in posts like this. Its a call for censorship of the setting, pearl clutching etc
I don't think anything of the sort, and you're making up shit just so you can lash out. I hate how 40k has been toned down in recent years, I'm not a fan of censorship, and I certainly don't think it's going to have any real world ramifications.
>I'm not going to make some sort of machine worshiping cult just because I like Admech.
This was me until I got a job involving working with very specific machines that were built in the 1950s, Frankenstein'd together with components from 1980s-2010s, that no one actually makes any of the components for, and only two living twice-retired elderly folks even know fully how they work. Now I'm a believer in machine spirits, sacred unguents, and holy canticles.
This site would be 100% better if south Americans were just banned. You idiot south american communists ruined you continent to the point lolbertarians are being voted in.
You literally cannot stfu and stop bring up your low iq socialist vs fascist bs in every thread.
Frick you, you utter moronic chimp.
>Tau homosexual communist
man, you gotta grow up, its fiction, take a deep breath and stop being a colossal moron
stfu you lying sigmarxist c**t. The fact you even feel compelled to reply outs you as a commie poltard
what does pol have anything to do with the discussion you deranged homosexual
because you mentally ill leftists cant stop lying in 40k discussions because your precious communist ideology is under attack
Anything that makes tau look shit you ape out at because tau = communism to you
Don't forget that new Votanns spontaneously pop into existence at an uncommon but regular rate, so the loss of 1 Votann is nowhere near the catastrophe that is eldar losing a craftworld or maiden world. Hell, it's not even as dire as the Imperium losing a forgeworld or Titan.
Don't forget that while having chaos resistance like Tau, they still get to have psykers, too, yet another benefit
they look like generic sci fi because thats what GW wants to make, just look at primaris compared to OG marines
They have a small population, the only thing creating their everything is going senile and they live in a chud society where you are assigned a role in your life and you live your life only for the corporate.
Their aesthetics do suck ass though i agree with that.
>They have a small population
They are canonically the third most populous faction in the game discounting nids, behind only Imperium and orks
>They have a small population
"They dwell in vast numbers within the galactic core, being not so populous as the teeming Humans, but far better established than the nascent T'au or dwindling Aeldari."
In addition to these "vast" numbers they're also vat-grown, so they can pop out more dudes.
>the only thing creating their everything is going senile
They know how to improve upon their technology themselves, as said in the codex. Only 1 of the ancestor cores has gone senile, the others are doing well enough.
>You are assigned a role in your life and live only for the corporate
That's optional actually.
"Moreover, Guild affiliation is a voluntary step that not all Kin take; Guild members look askance at those without a Guild membership who are known as "freelancers," while freelancers in turn despair at those they see as hidebound Guildsmen."
no racial enmity with elves (and to a lesser extent Orks) is very lame. they went way too far toning down the OG dwarf traits
I kind of like they get along alright with the Eldar mostly because elf versus dwarf is played out and makes less sense in setting, since a lot of the conflict is driven by industry versus nature, and there probably aren't a lot of maiden worlds where the Votann live. Orks though, it makes perfect sense to hate them. They're one of the few forms of life that can survive where they live and it makes them the best target for orks.
My understanding is that the Eldar don't like the Votanns, but the reasoning behind it is kind of vague. They still communicate, but there's frickery there.
probably because Eldar know who the Votann are
>Helios ancients.
Should have worshiped the computers like parent-gods and viewed themselves as beautifully crafted and bespoke tools designed to fulfill a purpose. This is not considered a shameful thing, as their culture values and takes care of tools. You not only keep your tools repaired and in top condition, you also modify standard issue gear to best suit you as an individual on both a functional and aesthetic level. The equipment you were given are basically considered an extension of you and how you express yourself in such a regimented society.
While there fresh recruits could possibly have armor like the Leagues of Votann use, it wouldn't stay that way. The higher ranked you are, the fancier your armor gets because you spend so much time modifying it and applying what you learned to make it even better. Their HQ units should be so ornate they'd be an absolute nightmare to paint.
Anon, Warhammer 40k was cancelled in 2021 for being racist...
I wish. Maybe then I could enjoy the game in peace without a bunch of internet clout chasers trying to ruin it.
they have cool lore and sound good on paper but their minis are derpy.
Ive seen few people actually make them look good, if you need to be a 10/10 pro painter and modeller to make minis look good maybe the designs arent that great.
Those models are not only atrocious is probably the worst concept GW even made. They could have done just space dwarfs, instead we have this Starfield travesty nasapunk clowns with some weird lore about clones and shit.
This was clearly a sad mistake.
yet, its still better than Starfield
Being better than vomit+stinky steaming shit is not something to be proud about. Specially if you are just a stinky steaming shit.
Doesnt matter Votann better than Shartfield
I personally glad they didn't just do dwarves in space much like how Eldar are not just elves in space
they kinda did though. The funniest thing is how Votann are kinda like orks. They have a similar mentality but think they are better than orks.
Actually their entire mentality of viewing themselves as gigantic titans and everyone else is ants is ironic,
Eldar have a lot going for them that most elves don't, really. A lot of that stems from their ties to Slannesh and Vulcan influences (who are themselves just elves with certain traits exaggerated and others deemphasized) and a healthy smattering of anime, but to call them "just elves in space" is disingenuous.
Personally I'm more disappointed they weren't a Guard killteam being sent in a suicide mission since Beast Guard is still a thing in canon as per Gor Half-Horn. The chaos gotes look good too though.
I mean said theyre not. Like a I don't look at a Striking Scorpion and go yep that's an elf.
Ah whoops, misread. But yeah, votann have a lot of things I SHOULD like abd I enjoy the concept behind them, but GW botched the execution on every single one
>said to be so divergent from humanity Imperial scholars aren't sure if they should label them as abhumans or xenos
>>most of them look exactly like short humans, only some have some slightly craggy skin and that's it. Fricking pelagors and beastmen are far more divergent and both are accepted in the imperium with only the latter facing any sort of severe institutionalized discrimination for it)
>ironkin are said to be as brothers and equal to all other kin
>>but it turns out some are less equal than others (E-COGs) and you'll be lucky to get even a single ironkin head per kit
>all kin are 3D printed by Votann, an elegant and fun solution to the Female Dwarf Question
>>only Votann still print off fugly dykes for some reason
>cool backstory of being DAOT remnants
>>yet 90% of their weaponry is just fancy bolters/lasguns or space marine armor with turtleshell greebles
>elegantly folding demiurg lore into Votann
>>only to end that inclusion on a bad punchline that sidesteps most of the potential fun drama of demiurg discovering their (what should've been long lost) cousins and having to decide where their loyalties lie
>two potential catastrophes that could've been used as a launching point for thrusting the votann back onto the greater galactic scene (great rift and tyrannic war)
>>oh but actually they managed to dodge both fpr the most part and are doing just fine thank you very much
And so on. It's all just a bunch of played safe half-measures
>>only Votann still print off fugly dykes for some reason
Sagitaur pilot is CUTE
"Dwarves in space" would have been good.
"Fat short space biker classic Squats" would have been good.
Something entirely unique looking, like the Eldar, would have been good.
Leaning into the "60s space exploration" aesthetic, like some of their vehicles have, would have been good.
But for most of their models, what we got was shorter, generic, Starcraft Space Marines as their baseline aesthetic.
People do play them though, and the models are selling well enough that they're out of stock on the online store. This is some poor quality bait.
>need to be a pro painter
>need to headswap and kitbash
>file, remove or cut off unnecessary details and bits
>add some bits with putty
>choose a good scheme
then you finally get a good space dwarf
pic unrelated? that looks like some homosexual mountaineer
impressive paint job on that.
>What the frick are you doing on my fricking lawn!? And don't you look at me when I'm talking to YUUUU!
>Get that kid off my fricking ice, ya little wankers!!
The codex implies the votann computers are photo copies of the Emperor's brain
inb4
>reee no it doesnt
Silence autist
The sagitaur was out of stock for like a fricking year but go on about how theyre unpopular. Also, theyre not Space Marine, every not marine army is niche in comparison.
doesn't tell you a fricking thing about their popularity. for all you know GW could have made 10 in their last run.
Eversor has been out of stock for a while. Ergo by your logic, the Eversor is equally as popular as the entire Votann line
Ergo by my logic theyre by definition popular. It's not hard. Maybe an old model that's meta and can be used in any imperial army is as popular as an entire faction how should I know.
Most of the seething at Leagues of Votann comes from Tau gays mad that GW made Tau but better and Tau that actually make sense.
The funniest part is the Tau are basically a tiny client race of the space dwarves and they have no idea. Just one sub faction of the dwarves too.
That's false. Nobody cares about them as a faction. You are trying to force something that isn't there.
I just don't find their looks appealing. A couple of their models look fine, I do like the ironkin and their psyker character, but on the whole nothing really grabs my attention. It's like my eyes try to look at tem but my gaze slides away as nothing really hooks me.
I uironically find the Tau aesthetics much more pleasing and memorable.
ancestor cores should've been meat computers built out of an important historical figure's brain that the dwarfs keep adding on to with their own brain patterns or whatever until it goes hay-wire and starts doing random shit. That alone would make them feel way more at home in the setting.
necromunda squats look fan fricking tastic, it's just that the votoids just look like firstborn marines excluding one or two models and 70 percent of their models and key art are beardless and ugly faces. Like, a lot of the Ironhead models from necromunda are beardless but their proportions and industrial styling reads as "dwarf" way more than "space marine with a rune on it".
plus this is just a personal thing for me but i think they shouldn't have been S4 T4 cuz that makes them even more "marines but less."
>Warhammer 40k
nu41k is not WH40k
>they released some generic, lazy, uninspired, designed-by-commitee slop in its place
So many buzzwords so little substance
is he wrong?
who can tell? He said absolutley nothing
>he didnt use words I approve of therefore he said nothing
you think you're an anime protagonist or something? frick outta here pseud
> An old Dune RTS, why do you ask?
lmao all most, Warcraft 1 was inspired by Dune, but the setting itself was inspired by???
> uses a vapid string of words that could describe anything.
Necrons are generic, lazy, uninspired, designed-by-commitee slop
Tau are generic, lazy, uninspired, designed-by-commitee slop ect What the frick is *anime protagonist* even supposed to mean.
>Warcraft 1 was inspired by Dune
Nope, Starcraft was directly stated to be influenced by Dune by one of Blizzard's primary artists from Warcraft to roughly the Warlords of Draenor expansion of WoW.
>but the setting itself was inspired by???
A whole host of things. It wears its Starship Troopers influences most directly on its sleeve between the Terran soundtrack and the Brood War cinematics, but it's also got general Southern Americana vibes, Dune, Battletech, a pinch of Star Trek, and Nausicaa Valley of the Wind of all things was the primary inspiration for Protoss Reavers. And yes, it certainly had some Rogue Trader mixed in there, but really not nearly as much 40K proper as you like to assert. That's just you Boss Baby Syndrome speaking.
RTS' where an established genre at this point. Command and Conquer had been out for three years. Warcraft 1s gameplay was stated to be inspired by Dune and Lemmings and the setting was heavily inspired buy Warhammer. Starcraft was just another RTS in space. Besides referring to Votann as *fun sized Starcraft* because of nasa spacesuit power armour is asinine.
>Starcraft was just another RTS in space.
Specifically one inspired by various features in Dune, yes.
>Besides referring to Votann as *fun sized Starcraft* because of nasa spacesuit power armour is asinine.
Well we at least agree here. I personally love SC marines/Terran aesthetics and Votann do nothing for me. Hell I WISH their hovertrike looked more like a Vulture.
Votann power armour doesn't look like NASA spacesuits.
My "problem" (or rather the source of my absolute disinterest) with them is that they are visually boring
They are just guys in space suits
I looked though their current lineup just now, and the only interesting figure, in my opinion, is Grimnyr, who's just a fantasy dwarf.
They just don't have anything with a "wow" factor, nothing fun
I'm not one to talk about "sovl" or whatever, but I just can't see their appeal.
Nobody new or returning to the hobby would pick them.
Not a bright eyed 9 yo buying his first space fighter men or the edgy high schooler, not the weeabo or the history nerd, not even the tolkienhead that gets drafted by his friend group...
No soul.
I know 2 people who played the OG squats from fricking 2nd edition that picked up leagues of votann and play them regularly
Anyone else think that in 10th they’re basically a replacement for firstborn marines rules wise? They’ve got the deep striking termie equivalents, the tac squad with 1W and a whole shit load of weapons stapled onto it, the mega tank Land Raider parallel with the Sagittar. The Primaris switch really totally re-did the SM tabletop identity, and their old rules just found a place with this new faction.
And they're both manlets. It rhymes.
I personally think so. They realized firstborn had a tabletop niche and wanted to keep it without having to make primaris marines firstborn
I like how votann look. Like 1950s scifi
I like it, but if I ever bought em I'd have to remove all the runes and horse dildo hats, because I hate the half-assed viking/dwarf aesthetic.
WTF kind of 50s scifi are you watching? They're so 2000s it hurts.
Dunno what everybody's problem with the Leagues is. Take what you want from the lore, print the models you want and you have a cool space dwarf army in 40k and not some beardless uncles at a sci fi wedding.
I just want them to be a less jarring fit into the setting, and have more good looking models officially available.
All they have to do is add a few paragraphs to some codexes about them having some mishaps with AI going rogue to Chaos, and some more biker/space dorf/nasa inspired looking models, and I'd be happy.
I would have made them the warp tech faction. Well, that gives the wrong image. More like, they figured out how to build certain kinds of circuits that they could run low level amounts of Warp energy through. There aren't any massive effects from it do to not drawing all that deeply, but if it destabilizes, the circuit breaks rather than reality. It'd basically be the 40k equivalent of Fantasy's runes.
Quite surprised how decent their lore was in the codex.
And of course GW wasted the opportunity by not giving them a Black Library novel.
I wish they had toned down the norse/ceremonial shit and made them more sci-fi ergonomic. The leader on the cover looks like a space wolf with his runic decorations. Would have preferred a small faction with humanity's greatest tech.
>I want space dwarves to not have runes and not look Norse
Runic decorations is one of the few things GW did right.
The actual problem here, the actual thing making them look like Space Wolves, is that they are just smaller Space Marines.
Their lore is OK
Their look is horrid which is a dealbreaker in a tabletop wargame. They are neither proper space dwarfs nor a cool DAOT remnant nor a Men of Iron remnant. And became a dedicated sjw ideas dumping ground as well.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/age-of-wonders-planetfall-dev-diary-21-the-dvar-faction-indepth.1132179/
GW should have ripped off Age of Wonders: Planetfall instead of Deep Rock Galactic. Dieselpunk, industrial look fits 40k far better than this sanitized minimarines look they chose for them.
Dvar are them, just better.
The funniest part about them minus people not even knowing their lore and being mad about them is people mad that they weren’t a derivative of a derivative but in space and instead something else
they are shit and look it
they ARE a derivative, just not the one people have grown to like and expect.
>two copies of the initial Army Box and the Christmas Battleforce still put you far out of reach of 2,000 points even using all models (you won't) with all Enhancements
(x_x)
I like vottan since they are based on a much better setting than 40k
Theres something about the way people paint LoV models that doesn't look right.
People keep painting them like they are marines chapters but i think more dirty realistic looking paint jobs suit them
They occupy a really weird place, both aesthetically and lorewise.
Aesthetically, they're like... half way between Space Marines and Tau, which is kind of weird and seems to fit together but only barely.
Lore Wise, well, GW basically classifies them as Xenos since they're distrustful of the imperium and there hasn't really been time to integrate them into any lore, I legit don't know if these guys have ever been mentioned outside their own codex.
If we compare them to the last "exists in lore but not in models" factions like Admech and Custodes, we can see that both of those have fairly unique aesthetics that I feel Leagues just don't have
>If we compare them to the last "exists in lore but not in models" factions like Admech and Custodes, we can see that both of those have fairly unique aesthetics that I feel Leagues just don't have
I think the biggest problem is also that they were very clumsily backhacked into the lore. Instead of just making a brand new DAoT Remnant/MoI faction that had been hiding or something until the galaxy got more fricked up than it already was, they decided to clumsily staple them on to existing squat lore (as well as demiurg and whatever the frick a cregg is) whilst simultaneously retconning that selfsame lore to shreds. They manage to simultaneously occupy three separate niches that some people were really clamoring for (old squats, a new space dorf replacement to squats, and a DAoT remnant faction) but don't really commit to any of the three. They're too nudorf to satisfy oldsquat holdouts, too squatty to commit to being nudorfs and destroyed the demiurg in the process imo, and the DAoT overtures feel tacked on at best since their weapon feels very derivative of the Imperium. They also barely if at all draw from any of the few examples of the aesthetics we've seen from those niche concepts either. The old "gambeson guard" look of oldsquats only exists in a single picture, none of their vehicles remind me even remotely of the demiurg ships we've seen in BFG, and their ironkin look barely anything like the sweet 1950s Man of Iron from Blackstone Fortress. The only real connection they have to DAoT tech is sharing the spinal column of Van Saar armor, and even VS feel like their tech is more fantastical than Leagues what with all the hoverboards, energy shields, and other cool shit.
It's all just so...underwhelming.
Underwhelming is a good single word descriptor for them.
Honestly it feels like it would be super difficult to pull off DAOT Humanity remnants and have them be distinct because the Imperium bases all their tech off the DAOT's scraps. I guess the only way you might get it to work is have a DAOT remnant go "wait, you use that template as a tank? That's... that's a tractor."
Even sticking with the dwarf theme and acknowledging that GSC already took the whole weaponized blue collar worker thing going for them, you still could've done SOMETHING with them. Maybe play into the whole Hullbreaker/Hulk scavenger theme and give them stuff like cutting lasers or guns that melt down scrap metal into molten slag shotguns. Or weapons that have no ballistics at all and just hit people with raw, armor crumbling concussion force. I'd anything their weaponry should look like more utilitarian versions of Admech gear rather than sawed off bolters and more reliable lasguns.
>I did kind of like the idea that they are a remnant faction, but they really didn't do it well
That's precisely what I mean. I think I said it further upthread, but they basically took a bunch of ingredients I like (and a few I don't really care for but could take or leave) and then cooked it up in a way that boils all the flavor out of any of them, leaving you with mostly bland gruel that COULD have been delicious. Typical brits amirite?
>le blue collar workers
>food analogy
>inane seething at Brits at the end of the post
trifecta of tard
>ignoring the industrial aesthetics of GSC
>getting mad at a perfectly reasonable analogy being used to elaborate on a point
>seething over a lil cheeky banter
I did kind of like the idea that they are a remnant faction, but they really didn't do it well. I'd make them treat the Votann half-way between parents and gods, and made there armor a lot more elaborate. Just give them the standard dwarf love of artifice and say while they use the armor they do now, they modify it to be a lot nicer. I don't mind them being the demiurg so much, but they did do them dirty. They should have made the demiurg a renegade faction that split off long ago. They'd probably came about because their Votann died or something.
You're 100% right.
its actually been pretty much confirmed they are the godfathers of the Tau, hence why the insane tau fan butthurt in this threads
Pretty much. They are the godfather of the Tau, and the older brother of the Imperium.
I know exactly two people who are into them in person. The first is doing heavy work on them with greenstuff and shit to make them look actually dwarfish and is going with a vibe sorta inspired by fyreslayers from aos/fantasy and is trying to fluff them up as outcasts and convicts from other leagues who are repenting via combat.
The other looks like a personification of a reddit consoomer and bought two of their launch boxes, did them up in an... okay paint job and played them for a while, dominated fricking everything because they were broken as hell, got upset about nerfs and then packed them up and vowed to sell them once their 10th ed preview dropped because GW ruined them.
The second type seems to be the more common of their playerbase, and has the overlap with those turbo autists who are obsessed with "LE HECKIN EBIC DORFS XDD".
I have respect for exactly one votann player.
Because we found other, better places to talk about the faction. And because we are still waiting for more model releases and fiction to be released for them.
None of us can talk about anything related to them because as the this entire thread shows, the frickin anti votann hit squads come in and shit everything up with large, and larger amounts of seethe, cope, and mald. We deal with the shitty memes that they are based off starcraft even though thats long been proven to be cope by the warhammer community articles (the armour is based off the original terminators). We deal with the constant stream of shitty statments that original squats were better even though gw put it best why they were removed in the first place (and they were still put in necromunda despite this). We deal with all the criticism against their lore and design and immediately show why the kin are a wonderfully designed faction that combines the imppressive engineering and sciences of daot age humanity and warhammer dwarves, with some extra twists to spice things up..
its not even because they didn't sell well. Despite the lack of attention, our communities are still strong and blossoming, and our models still sell out. on top of this, Valrak himself (he is consistent with his leaks and general information) has stated that we have sold pretty well and that our future prospects are quite bright.
Despite what some may claim here, we are a strong and mighty playerbase. And when the sun finally shines upon us (gw actually gives us the rest of our shit), all sha'll truely see our full strength.
>the frickin anti votann hit squads come in and shit everything up
nice headcanon buddy. the reality is that votann are just underwhelming. everyone wanted them to be good but GW underdelivered. Sad, but happens. People not liking what you like is not a personal attack against you, chill
>nice headcanon buddy
Theres that copium.
>everyone wanted them to be good but GW underdelivered
them not appealing to your shit tastes does not mean they under delivered.
>Sad, but happens.
The only thing that is sad here is your pathetic, cope filled statements enwrapped with mald.
>People not liking what you like is not a personal attack against you, chill
Great advice, now why don't you actually try to follow said great advice yourself.
>copium
you'd rather create a whole alternate universe where there are anti-votann hit squads that dare criticize your precious slopanns than get over your buyer's remorse and admit they just look like shit buddy. your stance is the definition of copium
>shit taste
look at pic rel - you bend over backwards for the dykes on the left when they're frankly nothing but a lame ripoff
>mald
>t-take your own advice
if this post and the one before are not bait, drop whatever meds you're taking, you act deranged, LOL
>look at pic rel - you bend over backwards for the dykes on the left when they're frankly nothing but a lame ripoff
It's called nasapunk. Vidya didn't invent space suits.
>being daft on purpose
my point was that starcraft created space suits. that's all, yep
No idea what point you're trying to make but claiming the left image is a rip off of the right is moronic
>claiming the left image is a rip off of the right is moronic
ok
Youre reaching so hard I don't see why you dind't circle the kneepads as well.
holy shit, that can't be real
no wonder I haven't seen anybody playing them at my LGS
Pure utter copium right here. Valrak himself has stated that they sold quite well. Our have consistently sold out.
And that image you posted. Absolutely delusional if you think tgose two look the same.
>Valrak himself has stated that they sold quite well.
I don't recognize that GW employee. Is he a sales rep or something?
I'm sorry but I am not reading all that.
I'm happy for you though.
Or sad that it happened.
>I am not reading all tha
Bet you say that a lot. Bet you that's why you are an idiot. Read more dummy.
>its not even because they didn't sell well. Despite the lack of attention, our communities are still strong and blossoming, and our models still sell out. on top of this, Valrak himself (he is consistent with his leaks and general information) has stated that we have sold pretty well and that our future prospects are quite bright.
They sold so poorly that GW refused to even mention the faction release in their yearly investor report, they actually considered a box release for MESBG more important than a faction release for fricking 40k
>Fantasy dorfs
>Grudge autists
>40k dorfs
>Debt autists
Which one is better?
neither is good, both caricature harmful anti-semitic stereotypes
the 40k ones have the same grudge crusade thing.
but they are also a bit like orks, mining = looting. They'll mine anything, they'd mine the Emperor's throne room if they could get away with it.
Grudges in 40k are called debts though. That's the joke.