Everyone "enjoys" winning. It's a basic dopamine response. If you don't enjoy the game itself, whether you're winning or losing, you don't actually enjoy playing. And if you don't enjoy it, stop, because enjoyment is the entire point of the exercise.
How often do you play games? Not sure what you're playing, but back when I played 40k infrequently I had this problem. I think because I got to play so rarely compared to the time I spent thinking about 40k, painting, reading, etc there was a lot emotionally invested in a single game when one did finally along. This made losing very disappointing. Once I started playing pretty frequently and regularly that went away.
It just dawned on me tonight that RNG and the concept of bullshit is not fun.
I was about to look in the archive for this sentiment and saw this thread first.
Not 100% relevant to your complaint, but I think we as humans can only be accepting of our losses if it was entirely of our own doing, but to avoid the feeling of regret there needs to be the sense that the mistake was absolutely seen as the right move in the moment and the consequence was unforeseen. Or maybe not...
Games are hard to make well and game theory unexplored.
He's not really wrong though. To ENJOY a loss you have to believe that the loss was not just down to random chance. Slots players don't enjoy losing. But a poker game where you believe you made an error in calculation, bluffing or strategy that led to a loss can be enjoyed.
The difference is that you can learn from a loss that is down to strategy. You can have fun during the game being challenged by a skilled opponent.
Of course games that are heavily dependent on chance are not generally enjoyable when you lose. But they can be popular because of the feeling when you win if it's frequent enough or if the stakes are high enough. Lottery tickets are popular despite the chances of winning being vanishingly small, but the potential payout is so great many people still take that chance. Nobody likes it when they win nothing though. Similarly slots payout just frequently enough to be addicting, but it's still not fun to lose. People stop playing when they feel they aren't winning enough.
Compare that to games of skill, which can be compelling on their own, regardless of win or loss. It's always MORE enjoyable to win, of course, but playing a close match against a good opponent is often enjoyable by itself.
OP's problem is that he doesn't actually like the games he's playing, just the feeling of victory. The only solution is to start to appreciate the game for it's own merits, understand the strategy on a deeper level. Allow yourself to appreciate your opponent's strategy, and actively learn from it.
>He's not really wrong though
He is absolutely, utterly, entirely wrong. Gambling is a thrill. To suggest people don't enjoy gambling when they lose is like saying people don't like drinking when it makes them hungover. It's barely even coherent enough to be wrong, because it's totally ass-backwards and detached from what is actually occurring.
It's the opposite. They enjoy it because it was down to luck. Because it means they might win next time.
If they lost to a bet in a match of chess against a grandmaster, they would just feel terrible that they even tried and stop right there, and feel no hope of even having a chance to win.
In the end, to enjoy a loss, it needs to give you the feeling that you might win next time. Skilled players hate RNG because they see it as something that reduces their chance of winning, while bad players love RNG because they see it as a chance to win even against the most skilled of the players.
In the end, no one enjoys losing for the sake of losing, or how they lost, they just revel on the feeling that the victory is gonna taste sweeter.
Have you ever been to a casino? Shit's miserable in those places, particularly if you see a dad praying to God because he won't be able to afford his kids' school supplies if he doesn't hit it big soon. People get addicted to bad things that they don't enjoy.
>He's not really wrong though
He is absolutely, utterly, entirely wrong. Gambling is a thrill. To suggest people don't enjoy gambling when they lose is like saying people don't like drinking when it makes them hungover. It's barely even coherent enough to be wrong, because it's totally ass-backwards and detached from what is actually occurring.
You're confusing "people don't like losing lots of money" with "people don't like gambling". These are entirely different things, even if there is an obvious causal relationship between them.
A lot of people have blind pride that can only be kept intact with the possibility of losing being the fault of bullshit RNG. It might not be a healthy way of coping but it sure does work when it does.
I have a tendency for the opposite though, I start complaining about what other people do in multiplayer board games if I'm not careful, but in games designed around BS RNG like Darkest Dungeon I can always find ways I could have done things better or accept that the stars just weren't right. "Play more games", like many anons have said, seems to be what leads to a healthier mentality like that, I've become less salty about losing after getting my ass handed to me by real board game enthusiasts
OP here, it's more like losing over and over again makes me pissed off. If I lose a couple times and then get a win it makes me feel like I'm improving instead of spinning my wheels. RNG I think is generally seen as a mitigator for sore losing because it doesn't challenge anyone's ego, it's just like "oh well, I got unlucky" instead of "i'm worse at this this game than this person".
This is nonsense. Games of chance are effective, or they wouldn’t be so popular.
I like elements of chance in games because it can help prevent them from becoming monotonous. It can be a fulfilling challenge to your skill to find the best ways to work with elements that were outside of your control, mixing luck with skill.
that's very much the game theory nerd POV, but it's not the common one
most people prefer randomness because it will give them undeserved wins, and it gives them something to blame other than themself
Do silly stuff and make your own win conditions.
For instance, when I play Blood Bowl I like to use Throw Team-Mate a lot. It's not optimal (in fact it's usually actively detrimental) and I don't win much, but if I can hit an elf or two with a funny flying goblin I'm happy.
Play fighting games. Get good. Use the salt to push you to get better.
I dunno. I only have fun when the gameplay is complex and I'm being challenged, or if I'm winning by a landslide like turtling for an hour in Dungeon Keeper and then mopping the floor with the enemies and they dont stand a chance. The latter is for single player games, the former for multiplayer.
Find alternative tasks to complete aside from winning. Appreciate that you can learn from losing because if you only ever win then you never get to find new things to try for improvement.
Once you nail the jumping puzzles and memorize the mine cart orders it's a breeze. Just enjoy the buttery-smooth 60 frames per second and the incredibly mid-90s sound-effects music.
In the end, Taz doesn't get to eat the egg but what matters is the journey, not the destination. And maybe the real dinner was all the stuff you ate along the way.
>In the end, Taz doesn't get to eat the egg but what matters is the journey, not the destination. And maybe the real dinner was all the stuff you ate along the way.
>friends make tryhard magic decks >some of their turns take literal minutes >see their eyes light up when they get that special card theyve been waiting for the entire game >watch that light dull when i kill myself with either a red or black card before they can spend 5 minutes to basically tell me im dead.
Jeremy youre a fricking butthole for intentionally leaving me with 2 life just because you wanted to see how many tokens and counters you can get onto the battlefield. Im not going to sit there for 10 whole minutes so you can metaphorically jack yourself off and bust a fat nut on my face.
I actually have more fun when I lose. Let me explain:
I don't often lose games these days, and thereby often become quite bored. I'll often handicap myself in a game so that others don't fall behind when we sit down to play.
To that effect: I love to loose. When I win, I don't really gain anything, but when I loose, I get to learn something. A victory is clear as day, but a defeat is an unexpected delight I get to chew on for days and reflect on.
Don't lose.
Start having fun when you lose
I can't, it sucks.
Why?
Lose a bunch.
Spend money on dommy mommy hookers. Learn to embrace getting stepped on
Stop playing games entirely, because you don't actually enjoy them.
This is the correct answer.
Everyone "enjoys" winning. It's a basic dopamine response. If you don't enjoy the game itself, whether you're winning or losing, you don't actually enjoy playing. And if you don't enjoy it, stop, because enjoyment is the entire point of the exercise.
How often do you play games? Not sure what you're playing, but back when I played 40k infrequently I had this problem. I think because I got to play so rarely compared to the time I spent thinking about 40k, painting, reading, etc there was a lot emotionally invested in a single game when one did finally along. This made losing very disappointing. Once I started playing pretty frequently and regularly that went away.
It just dawned on me tonight that RNG and the concept of bullshit is not fun.
I was about to look in the archive for this sentiment and saw this thread first.
Not 100% relevant to your complaint, but I think we as humans can only be accepting of our losses if it was entirely of our own doing, but to avoid the feeling of regret there needs to be the sense that the mistake was absolutely seen as the right move in the moment and the consequence was unforeseen. Or maybe not...
Games are hard to make well and game theory unexplored.
>RNG and the concept of bullshit is not fun
Gambling is incredibly popular and has been forever. You're completely wrong, and very obviously so.
He's not really wrong though. To ENJOY a loss you have to believe that the loss was not just down to random chance. Slots players don't enjoy losing. But a poker game where you believe you made an error in calculation, bluffing or strategy that led to a loss can be enjoyed.
The difference is that you can learn from a loss that is down to strategy. You can have fun during the game being challenged by a skilled opponent.
Of course games that are heavily dependent on chance are not generally enjoyable when you lose. But they can be popular because of the feeling when you win if it's frequent enough or if the stakes are high enough. Lottery tickets are popular despite the chances of winning being vanishingly small, but the potential payout is so great many people still take that chance. Nobody likes it when they win nothing though. Similarly slots payout just frequently enough to be addicting, but it's still not fun to lose. People stop playing when they feel they aren't winning enough.
Compare that to games of skill, which can be compelling on their own, regardless of win or loss. It's always MORE enjoyable to win, of course, but playing a close match against a good opponent is often enjoyable by itself.
OP's problem is that he doesn't actually like the games he's playing, just the feeling of victory. The only solution is to start to appreciate the game for it's own merits, understand the strategy on a deeper level. Allow yourself to appreciate your opponent's strategy, and actively learn from it.
>He's not really wrong though
He is absolutely, utterly, entirely wrong. Gambling is a thrill. To suggest people don't enjoy gambling when they lose is like saying people don't like drinking when it makes them hungover. It's barely even coherent enough to be wrong, because it's totally ass-backwards and detached from what is actually occurring.
It's the opposite. They enjoy it because it was down to luck. Because it means they might win next time.
If they lost to a bet in a match of chess against a grandmaster, they would just feel terrible that they even tried and stop right there, and feel no hope of even having a chance to win.
In the end, to enjoy a loss, it needs to give you the feeling that you might win next time. Skilled players hate RNG because they see it as something that reduces their chance of winning, while bad players love RNG because they see it as a chance to win even against the most skilled of the players.
In the end, no one enjoys losing for the sake of losing, or how they lost, they just revel on the feeling that the victory is gonna taste sweeter.
Have you ever been to a casino? Shit's miserable in those places, particularly if you see a dad praying to God because he won't be able to afford his kids' school supplies if he doesn't hit it big soon. People get addicted to bad things that they don't enjoy.
Again, see
You're confusing "people don't like losing lots of money" with "people don't like gambling". These are entirely different things, even if there is an obvious causal relationship between them.
A lot of people have blind pride that can only be kept intact with the possibility of losing being the fault of bullshit RNG. It might not be a healthy way of coping but it sure does work when it does.
I have a tendency for the opposite though, I start complaining about what other people do in multiplayer board games if I'm not careful, but in games designed around BS RNG like Darkest Dungeon I can always find ways I could have done things better or accept that the stars just weren't right. "Play more games", like many anons have said, seems to be what leads to a healthier mentality like that, I've become less salty about losing after getting my ass handed to me by real board game enthusiasts
OP here, it's more like losing over and over again makes me pissed off. If I lose a couple times and then get a win it makes me feel like I'm improving instead of spinning my wheels. RNG I think is generally seen as a mitigator for sore losing because it doesn't challenge anyone's ego, it's just like "oh well, I got unlucky" instead of "i'm worse at this this game than this person".
Nobody likes losing over and over. But thats different than being a b***h if you dont always win.
Yeah after sleeping on it I came to realize that I can have fun and lose, it just gets to me after a while.
This is nonsense. Games of chance are effective, or they wouldn’t be so popular.
I like elements of chance in games because it can help prevent them from becoming monotonous. It can be a fulfilling challenge to your skill to find the best ways to work with elements that were outside of your control, mixing luck with skill.
that's very much the game theory nerd POV, but it's not the common one
most people prefer randomness because it will give them undeserved wins, and it gives them something to blame other than themself
If you've ever had to deal with salty Fighting game or LOL players, you'd doubt that part about people accepting a loss if it's their fault.
You can stop making the same fricking thread every 3-4 weeks, for starters
Play single player games.
Do silly stuff and make your own win conditions.
For instance, when I play Blood Bowl I like to use Throw Team-Mate a lot. It's not optimal (in fact it's usually actively detrimental) and I don't win much, but if I can hit an elf or two with a funny flying goblin I'm happy.
Play fighting games. Get good. Use the salt to push you to get better.
I dunno. I only have fun when the gameplay is complex and I'm being challenged, or if I'm winning by a landslide like turtling for an hour in Dungeon Keeper and then mopping the floor with the enemies and they dont stand a chance. The latter is for single player games, the former for multiplayer.
Find alternative tasks to complete aside from winning. Appreciate that you can learn from losing because if you only ever win then you never get to find new things to try for improvement.
Once you nail the jumping puzzles and memorize the mine cart orders it's a breeze. Just enjoy the buttery-smooth 60 frames per second and the incredibly mid-90s sound-effects music.
In the end, Taz doesn't get to eat the egg but what matters is the journey, not the destination. And maybe the real dinner was all the stuff you ate along the way.
>In the end, Taz doesn't get to eat the egg but what matters is the journey, not the destination. And maybe the real dinner was all the stuff you ate along the way.
Make it your goal to lose while fricking with the other people as hard as possible.
>friends make tryhard magic decks
>some of their turns take literal minutes
>see their eyes light up when they get that special card theyve been waiting for the entire game
>watch that light dull when i kill myself with either a red or black card before they can spend 5 minutes to basically tell me im dead.
Jeremy youre a fricking butthole for intentionally leaving me with 2 life just because you wanted to see how many tokens and counters you can get onto the battlefield. Im not going to sit there for 10 whole minutes so you can metaphorically jack yourself off and bust a fat nut on my face.
I actually have more fun when I lose. Let me explain:
I don't often lose games these days, and thereby often become quite bored. I'll often handicap myself in a game so that others don't fall behind when we sit down to play.
To that effect: I love to loose. When I win, I don't really gain anything, but when I loose, I get to learn something. A victory is clear as day, but a defeat is an unexpected delight I get to chew on for days and reflect on.
Play cooperative games.