That homosexual never survived in any game,what a pathetic useless whinny shit
Gotta hand it to her writer she wrote a character that i hate with a passion that means she did a good job
He literally goes on a rant about how "everyone is bi" and how you're a bigot if you don't like both men and women, claiming that gays and straight's love is not real because "why would you shy away from loving someone for their body"
>claiming that gays and straight's love is not real because "why would you shy away from loving someone for their body"
This ideology sounds like the natural end result of homos blurring love and sex in an attempt to present themselves as romantics instead of perverts.
That just makes him a based gender-abolitionist. Don't lie, if your brainworms didn't tell you "eww", you'd be a hundred times more happy living in a mariage with another chud like you instead of a woman.
Killing the templar will militarize the Chantry itself. Elthina would have rallied the population against Anders for killing Meredith and the Templar as some sort of crazy mage who is trying to declare war on the Templars in a suicide run
The homosexual shit didn't make sense, but the moronic bit does to some extent, considering how its clear that a spirit of justice couldn't reasonably exist and fulfil its purpose in real life.
Anders' own biased views corrupted justice with those same biases, and Justices' extremist black or white mentality corrupted Anders in turn and made him WAY less tolerant of anything he considers wrong. It's just a constant negative feedback loop until Anders inevitably goes insane because he's unable to accept that wrongs and injustice will always exist in this world and there's no way to get rid of them forever, which is presumably why he just goes full nuclear and decides itd be better for mages to die for the sake of justice now rather than suffer under the heel of the templars until they die even worse off later.
Wynne was able to exist peacefully with the spirit of Faith that possessed her since faith is something that can exist in an imperfect shitty world without losing its purpose/identity, Justice is just way too strict a concept to be able to do that, so it ended up corrupted and took Anders along with it. Even Cole went through a similar kind of conflict as Anders because of his purpose as compassion clashing with his human biases and trauma, and that can only be solved by changing his entire nature to be more human or more spirit (and the more spirit option eventually just makes him leave back to the fade)
I will say his homosexuality was a safe way to have a romantic relationship without watching babies get snatched from them when the Templars find out. At least he believed there was one thing the Templars can take from him and that was the right to be in love
> Elthina would have rallied the population against Anders for killing Meredith and the Templar as some sort of crazy mage who is trying to declare war on the Templars in a suicide run
why would anders give a shit about that? At least a mage taking down templars makes sense from a revenge POV, but regardless the chantry AND the templars both still rallied against anders and painted him as 'some sort of crazy mage trying to declare war', if anything, again, killing the innocent nuns who were just trying to negotiate peace (however futile that would be), is way WAY worse to the public eye than a mage attacking the templars (who even peasants know are basically their jailers) would be.
>I killed Elthina to make a point there can no peace no matter how hard I tried. Nothing will change, at best we are going to live with heavy compromises and pretend all the mages who died or got tranquilized will enjoy the benefits of freedom at the hands of our former oppressors
Vs
>I killed Meredith, Mage/Templar War now! Let's fricking body ourselves against one of the most powerful military bodies and hope those Templars will give up once we killed every last one of them fricks. Wait why are you mages not helping me in the fight? Thought you hated the Templars?
Elthina can convince Hawke to side with her a lot easier than Meredith can and this also makes Hawke choose between him or their chances or taking Kirkwall from the Templar by becoming a symbol because at this point Anders lost control of Vengeance as well and wanted to go out on his terms
Both options would equal the Templars going ham and going to war against the mages though. As things are the situation would have turned out exactly the same either way. If Anders had nuked a Templar building it still would have been used as justification for the right of annulment and obviously the mages of Kirkwall wouldn't just lie down and let themselves get killed, especially due to the actions of one lunatic.
If anything attacking the Templars would have made the mages at least a bit more sympathetic to the fight since they also hate the Templars directly, not the chantry as a whole (for the most part). Killing the innocent nuns just makes all mages look WAY worse than they already do (which Vivienne mentions) to the general populace, and only serves to make the mages position look even more hopeless and not worth fighting for compared to if they had just attacked the Templars who were the direct antagonists to them.
>Technically yes but the moron should have just gone and nuked the templar HQ instead of the innocent nuns who just wanted peace. > >Killed him anyways since he was obviously completely insane by act 3.
He is a white man that attacked the israelites instead of nazi.
>Technically yes but the moron should have just gone and nuked the templar HQ instead of the innocent nuns who just wanted peace
That kills the mages though, they live in the same place. Unless you mean templar HQ in Orlais, where the seekers live.
>there's no compromise already so I removed compromise
The direct implication is that he achieved nothing whatsoever, thus his actions were pointless.
I'd consider pointless destruction wrong, so imo he was wrong, yes.
It's more that the Inquisition is made up of people who realize that saving the world is more important. Later on in the game, you're given the chance to wrap up the Templar-Mage war to your satisfaction, once you've solved a few immediate threats.
She also died for real in one of the novels. She's the only party member from any game who is confirmed dead, though I also believe they're strongly hinting that killing Anders is the canon choice.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>killing Anders is the canon choice.
every canon choice is dumb, what's the point of giving the choice in the first place?
2 years ago
Anonymous
See the previous posts, as well as
Are you surprised? It's obvious that killing Anders was supposed to be the canon choice. BioWare even had a DLC character, who is in all regards a noble, reasonable person, go up to you and say "YOU ARE moronic IF YOU LET HIM LIVE".
. It's never been outright stated in the games to be canon, but "killing Anders" is such an overwhelmingly preferred option that BioWare barely pretends it isn't canon.
2 years ago
Anonymous
oh ok, I see. looked some part of your post.
But still lame tho, same with Leliana's fate
2 years ago
Anonymous
>though I also believe they're strongly hinting that killing Anders is the canon choice.
I am still seething over them not going through the original plan of Justice isn't the spirit inside Anders.
2 years ago
Anonymous
QRD?
2 years ago
Anonymous
originally its going to be Velanna that merged with Justice plus more Nathaniel involvement instead of just being part of one-off and highly missable side quest.
like most stuff explored in Awakening, they never brings it up again nor explored further.
The problem is that neither Anders or Justice behaved like they should've in DA2.
The writer simply decided that they fused and wrote a character that had nothing to do with either Anders or Justice.
The idea of Anders even fusing with Justice to begin with makes no sense.
In Awakenings, Justice inhabited a dead body. He could tap into the Grey Warden's memories, but the spirit was the only one behind the wheel and all his decisions reflected that.
In DA2 Justice now has to contend with mortal vagueries and perceptions of right and wrong. As a multiple-time apostate who's seen his friends made Tranquil, Anders has a unique view on what constitutes justice.
Anders was possessed by justice so it does make sense in the setting
If it wasn't clear, the mix of Anders and Justice would not result in the full blown moronic literal homosexual that is Anders in DA2. As in the elements of each is not present in Anders+Justice.
Take his sexual orientation for instance. Justice had no interest in sex and shit, it's a spirit. Anders had the hots for women.
Unless your argument (or the writer) is that either personality no longer matter, since both were mixed in a blender effectively creating a new individual that has absolutely nothing from either Anders or Justice in it.
But that's not only dogshit writing, but also way less interesting. IF you wanted to mix the two, you should be able to clearly see each distinct personality of each in the new individual. Which you don't.
It just comes across as the writer being ignorant, shit or just not caring and wanting to make their crazed homosexual terrorist.
The homosexual shit didn't make sense, but the moronic bit does to some extent, considering how its clear that a spirit of justice couldn't reasonably exist and fulfil its purpose in real life.
Anders' own biased views corrupted justice with those same biases, and Justices' extremist black or white mentality corrupted Anders in turn and made him WAY less tolerant of anything he considers wrong. It's just a constant negative feedback loop until Anders inevitably goes insane because he's unable to accept that wrongs and injustice will always exist in this world and there's no way to get rid of them forever, which is presumably why he just goes full nuclear and decides itd be better for mages to die for the sake of justice now rather than suffer under the heel of the templars until they die even worse off later.
Wynne was able to exist peacefully with the spirit of Faith that possessed her since faith is something that can exist in an imperfect shitty world without losing its purpose/identity, Justice is just way too strict a concept to be able to do that, so it ended up corrupted and took Anders along with it. Even Cole went through a similar kind of conflict as Anders because of his purpose as compassion clashing with his human biases and trauma, and that can only be solved by changing his entire nature to be more human or more spirit (and the more spirit option eventually just makes him leave back to the fade)
Because originally, it was not supposed to be Anders who got Justice'd, but Velanna. Then Bioware realized nobody gives a frick about Velanna, so they spilt this character into Merill and Anders/Justice.
>merrill and anders are bother severely moronic >every single other mage except you and your sister immediately turns to blood magic at the drop of a hat >including the first enchanter >who knows about and is complicit in murders of the mage serial killer that kills your mother
If DA2 was trying to make my sympathetic to mages they did a terrible job. Fenris is right about mages.
>If DA2 was trying to make my sympathetic to mages they did a terrible job
I always felt it was the other way around.
DAO came across as a bit "Mages are unfairly persecuted, and most problems are caused by over zealous Templars"
DA2 showed that some mages are just bug-frick crazy, and Templars are necessary.
From devs posts on the old bioware forums I really got the impression they thought mages were their equivalent of mutants and they were tonedeaf to how badly they were portrayed in DA2.
>DAO came across as a bit "Mages are unfairly persecuted, and most problems are caused by over zealous Templars
What? DAO provided a more templar-leaning grey stance on the matter.
Even the Ferelden circle had problems. The Templars for their part were actually fine and Gregoir's restraint was near inhuman. The circle was one step away from the worst-case scenario and he still held off on the right of annulment in case there were still some good mages alive in there. The same can't be said for Irving however.
Irving insisted on playing politics with Jowan and could very well have killed himself, Gregoir, and many others in the tower with his stupidity if Jowan had been reacted anymore violently. He risked all that just because he wanted the chantry to be embarrassed, and so a powerful and emotionally unstable Maleficarum was left to wander the countryside with little experience to stave off the influence of demons and no phylactery to track him. Even if Irving never stooped to blood magic, he's still the first in a long line of mages that will throw caution and safety to the wind for their own short-sighted benefit.
I am so ashamed that I spared this abortion of a character and thus lost the kino paladin rogue guy. I still remember Anders from the first game. The joking, roguish mage who just made dumb jokes all the time. And then this gay. Worst part is I played a mage Hawke and could heal so I literally didn't need to save him. Only did it because one is from the main cast and the other's a dlc character. Frick you, Anders. And frick all mages. Game tries to make you feel sympathetic while literally every single one of them either turns into a demon or has dealings with one.
>literally every single one of them
Ironically every single one aside from those who aren't part of the circle, lmao. Bioware was so focused in making the conflict feel nuanced and make templar behaviour at least partially reasonable that they didn't realize they fricked up the whole setting in the attempt.
I hate the "i'm so totally unique" type people, mostly women and gays, who always side with mages and see the Templars as evil villains who have no reason to be concerned about walking nukes who are also demon dick sleeves.
I can see someone siding with the mages in Origins because the Circle is run well and they get along with the Templars overseeing them. By contrast Kirkwall shows exactly why the Circle being under the watch of the Templars is necessary.
Pretty much my view on it. Mages are alright in 1, siding with Templars in 2 is the only moral option.
I remember reading a codex entry saying that the Veil is thin in Kirkwall's Gallow causing Mages there to go apeshit regularly.
Mages are inherently dangerous but Mages in Kirkwall is especially dangerous.
Yep, its because the place used to be the site of a LOT of blood magic rituals back when Tevinter owned the city, so it ended up weakening the veil there significantly.
There was even a group of magisters who for some fricking reason did rituals to intentionally make the veil weaker for some reason, probably just some weird experiment shit.
I don't really know why they thought it'd be a good place for a Circle.
Probably akin to similar, obviously non-magical RL situations.
I.E. Actual records about all of the fricked up shit is mostly lost or explicitly destroyed, especially in the fact that Tevinter shit is about as Persona non Grata as possible to the Orlesian Chantry and its spinoffs. Long after said important information is gone, people used the existing structures/relics for their own purposes, largely unware in how that may conflict with the actual point of why said place was built and how that would frick up their plans.
Eh, I mean the chantry definitely knows it was a BIG slave trading hub of Tevinter, and has even been actively working to destroy the statues of the tevinter old gods that line the cliffs leading into the city.
Regardless, experienced mages do seem to be able to tell when the veil is weird/thin in certain areas, so it definitely feels like SOMEONE would have noticed the place was magically fricked up to the point where they just shouldn't be there. Though I guess the chantry could have also just been lazy enough to not want to relocate their circle somewhere else after it was already established.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Don't forget the chantry guy would have to actually listen to a mage on that matter.
While it gets to ridiculous levels in DA2, it's well shown in even DAO that such a caveat is far from common expectation. Actually realistic, although probably not intentional.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Well Kirkwall like most country need a Circle. Where are they gonna put their Circle. Kirkwall is more akin to a free city so their territory isn't much
2 years ago
Anonymous
It more like each country have their own Circle. Kirkwall is a city-state, not just a normal city. SO unless they want to bring mage to another country everytime they caught one then it would be the most convenient to build near their city
A city-state like kirkwall isn't really large enough on its own to really NEED a circle though, there are actually plenty of other circles already within the Free Marches (Starkhaven/Ansburg/Hasmal/Markham, and Ostwick) so it shouldn't really matter if there isn't a Circle tower exactly within the city.
5 Potential Circles should be more than enough for the Free marches as a whole, at least enough to ensure that they don't NEED another one in a literally cursed city.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Due to the barrier to the Fade being extremely thin, Kirkwall produces an inordinate amount of magic users. Hence the need for a Circle of their own. Also, it's an open secret amongst people in the know that a very high percentage of those users are either unstable and/or turn bad, so I doubt they'd want them mixing in with the more "stable" Circles.
2 years ago
Anonymous
so the Gallow is basically a mental institution for mages, very nice. good job Chantry
2 years ago
Anonymous
Where are you getting that kirkwall produces extra mages?
>There was even a group of magisters who for some fricking reason did rituals to intentionally make the veil weaker for some reason, probably just some weird experiment shit.
Isn't the running theory that Kirkwall is where they breached the veil to try and enter the Golden City?
>isolated >out on a small island >far enough from Kirkwall to keep the populace safe >not far enough from Kirkwall to intervene in case of shit went down
its strategic but still that doesn't address why the Chantry would built it where the Veil is notoriously thin.
>its strategic but still that doesn't address why the Chantry would built it where the Veil is notoriously thin.
Yes that's my point. There's no circle in Denerim nor in Amaranthine so it's not like there needs to be a tower in every city, so why not just fricking skip Kirkwall and build that specific tower literally anywhere else?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>There's no circle in Denerim nor in Amaranthine so it's not like there needs to be a tower in every city
because it's not strategic and safe to do so, the Circle in Ferelden was in a tower situated at the middle of a lake remember?
as for why the Chantry would build a Circle in demon infested Gallow despite being strategically located is beyond me, maybe they're just stupid idk
2 years ago
Anonymous
fair enough
2 years ago
Anonymous
It more like each country have their own Circle. Kirkwall is a city-state, not just a normal city. SO unless they want to bring mage to another country everytime they caught one then it would be the most convenient to build near their city
Even the Ferelden circle had problems. The Templars for their part were actually fine and Gregoir's restraint was near inhuman. The circle was one step away from the worst-case scenario and he still held off on the right of annulment in case there were still some good mages alive in there. The same can't be said for Irving however.
Irving insisted on playing politics with Jowan and could very well have killed himself, Gregoir, and many others in the tower with his stupidity if Jowan had been reacted anymore violently. He risked all that just because he wanted the chantry to be embarrassed, and so a powerful and emotionally unstable Maleficarum was left to wander the countryside with little experience to stave off the influence of demons and no phylactery to track him. Even if Irving never stooped to blood magic, he's still the first in a long line of mages that will throw caution and safety to the wind for their own short-sighted benefit.
>who are also demon dick sleeves.
Everyone says that if you dabble in Blood Magic, it'll spell disaster and abominations and demons will be everwhere. The Chantry says so and that's why we need the Circle and Templars, to prevent that. But look at Tevinter, a country filled to the brim with blood mages. Is it a shithole country? Yes. Do the mages in charge of the country practice slavery and live in decadence while everyone else is suffering because of constant Qunari attacks? Yes. Does it show that mages probably shouldn't run a society? Yes. Is it filled with abominations and demons? NO, IT IS NOT. The Chantry is full of shit, Blood Magic is not the problem. It is an overblown scare tactic meant to prevent a problem that is nowhere near as big as they think it is.
The only reason blood magic has a firm association with demons at the time of the games is because the Chantry burned all existing the literature on blood magic, so the only way left to learn it is from a demon. There's not actually anything more 'demonic' about it than any other kind of magic (all mages are at risk of abomination, not just blood mages). If you were lucky enough to find an intact book on the subject or a mage to teach you, you'd never have to make a pact with a demon to learn it.
>Yes. Is it filled with abominations and demons? NO, IT IS NOT.
Actually according to the Tevinter book, demons are everywhere, the ruling mage class just doesn't care unless it affects them.
>Everyone says that if you dabble in Blood Magic, it'll spell disaster and abominations and demons will be everwhere. The Chantry says so and that's why we need the Circle and Templars, to prevent that. But look at Tevinter, a country filled to the brim with blood mages. Is it a shithole country? Yes. Do the mages in charge of the country practice slavery and live in decadence while everyone else is suffering because of constant Qunari attacks? Yes. Does it show that mages probably shouldn't run a society? Yes. Is it filled with abominations and demons? NO, IT IS NOT. The Chantry is full of shit, Blood Magic is not the problem. It is an overblown scare tactic meant to prevent a problem that is nowhere near as big as they think it is.
Actually when they bring up Blood Magic they usually bring up it's capability for fricking MIND CONTROL. Hence the whole "magic is to serve man, not rule over him" thing.
And the Tevinters abso-fricking-lutely use the mind control aspect.
I thought the chantry hated blood mages because blood mages can puppeteer other people's bodies (extremely taboo in their religion), and because it bypasses the anti-magic of their templars if they don't have special anti-blood magic amulets on them, and because it creates a strong motivator to perform human sacrifices. Also some of them seem to think that using blood magic at all corrupts people because it just does okay?
Didn't that apprentice in the mage origin of origins learn blood magic just by reading a book about it that was sitting in the local tower's library?
>Didn't that apprentice in the mage origin of origins learn blood magic just by reading a book about it that was sitting in the local tower's library?
Maybe. There is no implication old whatshiface learned blood magic from a demon.
But he could have learned it from one of the conspirators instead of an old book. We don't know either way.
> Also some of them seem to think that using blood magic at all corrupts people because it just does okay?
It certainly does SOMETHING to you, even Solas who is perfectly fine with blood magic (as long as you're using yourself/willing people for fuel) says he specifically doesn't use it because it somehow weakens a mages connection to the fade over time. That definitely carries the implication that something weird is up with blood magic.
> Is it filled with abominations and demons? NO, IT IS NOT
The book set in tevinter reveals that demons are indeed a real problem in Tevinter, though regardless, they DO still have circles there where mages are taught to avoid shit with demons.
Also it actually makes more sense that there'd be less instances of demons overall since one of the big things with blood magic is that you can only get so much power from your own blood, which is why so many blood mages in Ferelden/Orlais/Free Marches turn to demons, because they don't have enough power to do what they want alone. That's less of an issue in tevinter because of the fricking slavery making it so that if you need more power you can just take it from your slaves rather than make a deal with a demon. It's not exactly a great alternative, at least from a moral POV.
Are there demons because of abominations, or because the veil is weaker thanks to them abusing blood magic so much that the demons are just able to cross dimensions there?
He was right from a practical standpoint, especially if you support mages in the setting at all (yes, don't pretend bethany doesn't count). Still stupid as hell, especially with poorer than usual writing shredding up almost all of the nuance on why he killed Elthina, essentially leaving it as the most destructive form of assisted suicide.
the plot of da2 will never make sense to zoomers because they don’t remember the anal marriage hysteria of the early 2010s; think blm x10. Mages Rights are such a self evidently correct position the writers felt the need to make them all jackasses to make the story “nuanced “.
>mages become free, treat them like people >they have their own schools and such >strengthen and reform the templars and have them become an independent organization that works closely with their host state/local law enforcement >let mages join the templars, templars shouldn't hate mages and should work with them frequently >and thus any dark evil mage/abomination would be hunted down easy
>strengthen and reform the templars and have them become an independent organization that works closely with their host state/local law enforcement >let mages join the templars, templars shouldn't hate mages and should work with them frequently
So, make Templars into Grey Wardens, but used against apostates instead of Darkspawn? I.e. an underfunded, underhanded, universally ignored, constantly politically sidelined organization?
The whole Chantry and Templars thing is - the Chantry pays for their shit and gives them actual political influence.
>So, make Templars into Grey Wardens, but used against apostates instead of Darkspawn?
Grey Wardens (with the exception of Ferelden Grey Wardens apparently) mostly stayed out of the local govt business. >an underfunded, underhanded, universally ignored, constantly politically sidelined organization >The whole Chantry and Templars thing is - the Chantry pays for their shit and gives them actual political influence.
except that Templars will not be underhanded, will not be universally ignored and will play a big role in politics even if they are independent or reformed. because unlike Darkspawn, who only really threatens Orzammar when there's no Blight, the threat of rogue mages and maleficarum are very real and is a threat to normal people everywhere in Thedas. the perceived threat alone will make sure that the Templars wont be ignored at least when it comes to matters about mages and magic.
The only problem I see with the solution is shit will get worse if the independent Templars rebel or went rogue.
> the threat of rogue mages and maleficarum are very real
The threat of Darkspawn is also very real - it never keeps the polities from ignoring the very real threat until it's too late. >- Please, we're almost out of recruits and we have NO money to even feed ourselves, send help! >- Why the frick should our kingdom feed and arm you useless insubordinate squatters? >- Don't you understand, the apostates could be upon as at any minute! >- Well I don't see any apostates here now, you're just scaremongering about a bogus threat. Begone.
And even when shit does hit the fan, nobles would much prefer having their own subordinate forces to deal with abominations rather than independent hobo Templars.
>The only problem I see with the solution is shit will get worse if the independent Templars rebel or went rogue.
And do what? Common-mill banditry? Beyond their anti-magic bullshit, Templars are just dudes in armor - and without money from Chantry and exploitation of Circles, they won't even have armor.
fair points, this is all assuming that the Templars would get reformed/independence in the first place but one thing >And do what? Common-mill banditry? Beyond their anti-magic bullshit, Templars are just dudes in armor - and without money from Chantry and exploitation of Circles, they won't even have armor.
I'm talking about in the context this guy
>mages become free, treat them like people >they have their own schools and such >strengthen and reform the templars and have them become an independent organization that works closely with their host state/local law enforcement >let mages join the templars, templars shouldn't hate mages and should work with them frequently >and thus any dark evil mage/abomination would be hunted down easy
Templar reform proposal. I meant that Mages alone are already dangerous, when combined with Templars anti-magic capabilities they would be unstoppable if they decided to rebel.
>I meant that Mages alone are already dangerous, when combined with Templars anti-magic capabilities they would be unstoppable if they decided to rebel.
Not really an issue - as who would the Templars use their anti-magic capabilities against, if the mages are already on their side?
2 years ago
Anonymous
To elaborate, that's how the Circle functioned and why Ferelden was considered more liberal with the freedoms they grant mages. At the same time, it's entirely up to the Templars to maintain those freedoms. Ferelden's Circle could have changed overnight because Greagoir got moved to another Circle and some zealot took over as Knight-Commander or Irving died and no one was able to take his place politically as an effective counterbalance towards the Knight-Commander.
The entire system is heavily rigged against the Mages losing rights and privileges at a moments notice because of circumstances beyond their control. At the end of the day, they're prisoners. Even the most stand-up and noble mages like Bethany who should never need any restrictions will be a prisoner alongside the most depraved of the bunch. Not always for anything they've done but for religious intolerance creating heavy suspicion that they WILL do something as soon as you take the boot of their face.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Meant for
>Mages can live outside the tower as long as they've A) passed their harrowing, and B) earned permission from the first enchanter. Then the added conditions would probably be that they can't live beyond a certain distance from the tower/outside the country that tower is in without transferring to a different tower + they have to report back every few months or something to confirm they're still living where they say they are and haven't run off or whatever.
That's literally how the Ferelden Circle functioned.
That's basically just police enforcement IRL which already doesn't work. Plus mages can't ever really go 'free' without extensive tracking and documentation (and also mandatory enforced education) at the very least since if there's ever instances of mage children not being educated on how to use their magic (either by laziness or neglect or whatever) it could easily end up with dozens of innocent people dying the moment they have a temper tantrum (even a good mage like Wynne could've almost killed a kid when she set him on fire just because he was making fun of her)
Mages are in general just way too dangerous to be able to permanently live free without some kind of severe negative consequences stemming from it. Best that they can really do in the dragon age world is follow the example of Vivienne's circle, just with some extra conditions. Mages can live outside the tower as long as they've A) passed their harrowing, and B) earned permission from the first enchanter. Then the added conditions would probably be that they can't live beyond a certain distance from the tower/outside the country that tower is in without transferring to a different tower + they have to report back every few months or something to confirm they're still living where they say they are and haven't run off or whatever.
Also obviously reforming the templars would be a given. Have them go through better education about mages as people so they aren't as hysterically scared of them (or rather, only seeing them like criminals instead of just people they need to be mostly guardians for) as they seem to be in the games. Also giving the templars an actual functioning watchdog system would probably help to deal with issues of templars abusing the personal rights of mages without consequence (The seekers really don't count at this point since they're more just like 'extreme' templars who take on jobs that normal templars cant, rather than just existing as a normal watchdog system)
>Mages can live outside the tower as long as they've A) passed their harrowing, and B) earned permission from the first enchanter. Then the added conditions would probably be that they can't live beyond a certain distance from the tower/outside the country that tower is in without transferring to a different tower + they have to report back every few months or something to confirm they're still living where they say they are and haven't run off or whatever.
That's literally how the Ferelden Circle functioned.
> That's literally how the Ferelden Circle functioned.
No it didn't? Ferelden circle mages weren't allowed to live outside the tower unless they were on some kind of important assignment or something like Wynne. Otherwise they had to live their lives there and weren't allowed to leave just like most other circles.
Monsimmard's circle was the only one mentioned to ACTUALLY let mages go live outside for no real reason other than to just live free(ish)
not that anon >Otherwise they had to live their lives there and weren't allowed to leave just like most other circles.
another example of lax Circle is Ostwick Circle, where the parent of mages with noble background simply just bribed the Templars to let their children come back home once in a while, which is pretty nice (if you're a noble child that is)
DA2 in theory could have been a good game at least writing-wise, it needed a little more time in the oven. The idea of a man who rises to fame in fortune yet despite his wealth is powerless to save those he loves, is a compelling personal story to tell. They just tell it really badly.
The idea of the entire game taking place in a single city is amazing. It's just that the city was god-awful and barely changes in 10 (TEN) years the story spans.
You also have to think alot of the circles are in the countryside. Imagine if you had to hunt mages turned bandit or worse demon hosts through the fricking woods with every small hamlet in the area now in danger.
Sad part is I think one of the devs outright said that if they had gotten more time the game premise probably would have been entirely different to begin with. So it was something we only would have ever gotten a shitty view of since it was made under a desperate timeframe.
If bioware was actually able to be trusted nowadays I'd genuinely be interested in some kind of re-make of da2 that goes the extra mile in changing some of the story elements as well as introducing more unique areas and such.
What always blows my fricking mind is that the caves in DA2 were just the same map reused over and over. When I heard that my immediate assumption was "Oh, so the city has a massive cave network underneath it that gets reused constantly? That's pretty cool." But no they really did just reuse the same map over and over and hoped no one would notice.
>When I heard that my immediate assumption was "Oh, so the city has a massive cave network underneath it that gets reused constantly? That's pretty cool."
Lol. Lmao.
NTA but pretty sure he meant the reused look not the actual level design itself. I mean its a sewer ffs obviously its going to look samey
Nah I meant they'd have just one huge ass cave network under Kirkwall with multiple entry points being used by bandits, rogue mages, thugs, monsters, who move in after you clear it out, give an added context to the setting and continuity or something. Instead two completely different caves in completely different locations look exactly the same.
The idea of the entire game taking place in a single city is amazing. It's just that the city was god-awful and barely changes in 10 (TEN) years the story spans.
[...]
Sad part is I think one of the devs outright said that if they had gotten more time the game premise probably would have been entirely different to begin with. So it was something we only would have ever gotten a shitty view of since it was made under a desperate timeframe.
If bioware was actually able to be trusted nowadays I'd genuinely be interested in some kind of re-make of da2 that goes the extra mile in changing some of the story elements as well as introducing more unique areas and such.
I want to live in the universe where EA never bought Bioware and DA2 is one of the best rpgs ever made. Fricking sucks, man.
Bioware was bought by EA because they went over the budget when making DAO, and they needed money. It was a deal with the devil, yes, but they've made it for a reason.
You also have to think alot of the circles are in the countryside. Imagine if you had to hunt mages turned bandit or worse demon hosts through the fricking woods with every small hamlet in the area now in danger.
He's right. >Mages will always be born >Templars can't be everywhere at once >Anything less than a full army of templars routinely jobs to abominations >Have to drink Lyrium 24/7 just to stab demons to death kek
The answer is simple, take all the templars, sacrifice them in a blood magic ritual, physically go into the fade, kill every fricking demon shit Doomguy style.
>Pro-tip you can just use a cheap ritual to go into the fade while awake but the mass slaughter of paladin larpers is a feature not a bug.
>send mages into a mysterious realm, no one truly understands, to just kill extremely powerful beings, also not truly understood by anyone, who can possess said mages, causing them to wreak havoc in the material world.
What could possibly go wrong? might as well send some dudes into the deep roads to simply kill all the darkspawn while their at it.
>What could possibly go wrong? might as well send some dudes into the deep roads to simply kill all the darkspawn while their at it.
basically Grey Wardens without the whole darkspawn blood drinking ritual thing
100% this. Warden+Party waltz right through and take back Bownammar in a couple of weeks (at most). Should've just been able to draw out the archdemon in that cutscene in the ravine, kill it, and then just kill darkspawn with the dwarves behind you until it's all clear.
I will admit I had entirely forgotten he existed up until right now.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I care. He was killed only to satisfy the grimderp story and setting and his vengeance has finally come. Now Dragon Age is dead as the new neon-coloured iteration is being made.
Does the series ever establish Warden powerlevels? Because to me it seemed they literally get nothing for their trouble outside of their advanced senses for Darkspawn and an early death, while their combat skills are all a result of training.
>Does the series ever establish Warden powerlevels?
heighten strength, heighten stamina, the usual. Alistair mentioned that a few months after being recruited he easily starves, probably due to the fact that the body needs more nutrition or something idk. Morrigan also noted that the Hero of Ferelden have unusual amount of endurance during sex.
The spidey sense for Darkspawn. Really though that's all you need. Immunity to ambush in the dark roads or during a blight, and the ability to actually put down the archdemon. Aside from that, you get to make the kind of decisive power grabbing political moves that need to be done to come down hard on a global threat without too much trouble because hey, you'll go insane and be dead in 20 years and you can't have kids.
Darkspawn are contagious animals that spread blight which corrupts all living things and turns them into ghouls. Velanna's sister Seranni is one such example. She hangs around The Architect who is basically patient zero for the darkspawn taint and slowly she starts withering away. There are two groups of wardens, combat arms that do the ritual and accept the taint that makes them get spidey sense and immunity to the darkspawn taint's effects. The other group are formally attached to the order but do not do the ritual like Woolsey who is the treasurer for the Ferelden branch.There is a serious failure in the story for DA:O and DA:A, the Warden's party fights shitloads of darkspawn yet the non Warden members like Zevren, Wynne, Sten, and Oghren don't suffer from taint related illness. Just being near darkspawn is enough to frick your shit and destroy the environment, everyone in the DAO party should have been fricked up by the end of the game.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The story goes that every party member was supposed to go through the Joining and become a Warden or die, but that was cut cause of time constraints and general bioware incompetence. Awakening was them revisiting that idea.
>but if you killed her in DAO it turns out it was a spirit larping as her in DAI.
wait what
2 years ago
Anonymous
if you imported a World State in which Leliana died (she came back in DA2 and DAI even if you killed her btw you can even ask her about this), after the end of Trespasser DLC it's basically revealed that it was a Lyrium ghost/spirit masquerading as her, the real Leliana is long dead at that point.
inb4 BW bringing him back in DA4 because dude Lyrium lmao
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nope,even bioware stated anders is never coming back
Hell he was the most killed ofg companion ever
2 years ago
Anonymous
I meant Zevran but good to know
2 years ago
Anonymous
Are you surprised? It's obvious that killing Anders was supposed to be the canon choice. BioWare even had a DLC character, who is in all regards a noble, reasonable person, go up to you and say "YOU ARE moronic IF YOU LET HIM LIVE".
Most based character in dao. should have had bigger role in 2 and 3. Also should have been frickable by girl cousland. But then maybe it's OK, since they would have made him cringe like anders.
Also what's with ogrhen being the returning character in awakening? Who liked him? Or did they just wanted steve blum again?
a lot of girls wanted to frick him, so they'll be a lot of competition even Oghren knows that. >Also what's with ogrhen being the returning character in awakening? Who liked him? Or did they just wanted steve blum again?
I liked him but that's no excuse to bring him back. I believe his death in the base game also handwaved in Awakening which is also lame
I get building a city there because of the mad money that must come in through the port, but yeah, Just build the fricking Circle a bit farther away, feels like any mage worth their salt would have immediately noticed how fricked up the veil is in that city.
No, because his little stunt did nothing. It wasn't the reason the war started. Cole's murders was what kickstartered the war. You people would know that if you've played the third game
NTA, but after that Cole gets possessed by, well, himself and goes on a rampage to kill several high grade Templar leader roles on a b***h-fit over the whole thing.
Considering he has dialogues about jerking off over Cassandra's sweaty armor, I would have figured people would have memed him more.
Maybe it's the "Gaider put me in the game just so his gaylord self insert can get fricked if you don't pick him" syndrome, or the fact he wants to get fricked by dragons.
>Talks about Cassandra's sweaty armor >Talks about giving Solas a buttfricking to calm him down >Talks about Vivienne needing more wiener in her life to get off her high horse and being willing to provide it >Talks about Varric being perfect height for blowjob duty >Gets horny when you fight a dragon, progressively more if you bring them to several dragon fights >Suggests Blackwall they should polish each other's swords >Graphically describes how he fricks the waitress and cook in your tavern
And then of course, he gets into the whole "romance" with Dorian and having them together in the party basically becomes a constant dialogue about how Dorian is tsundere over him and just keeps going back to him for more wiener every night.
Oh the fun fact is that apparently all of the above dialogues with the exception of Dorian's happen if you are in a romance with him anyway.
So throw in some good old fashioned cuckoldry bait into the mix.
>no female dorf romance because it's apparently pedoshit >lets you play a female dorf and get fricked by full grown dudes
What the frick did he mean by this?
I've recently finished Origins and 2, 2 kinda fricking sucked because of the gameplay and recycled locations. i'm about to get into Inquisition, how bad is it?
It's a shitty game, but i kinda take guilty pleasure from playing a *teleports behind u* dickass rogue, and then hate fricking merrill into becoming a slightly less moronic wood elf.
rogue is really fun with the over the top animation, mages too. >hate fricking merrill into becoming a slightly less moronic wood elf.
I think every romance companion benefit from a rivalry romance instead of friendly one
>lets have an interesting conflict between different societal groups and their worldview, the drive to freedom versus the security concerns of the populace and caretakers abusing their mandate, the organized faith and different nation states getting involved in between. >just kidding, lets forget all that to fight evil monster guy who wants to conquer the world with his lol corruption crystal army
Words cannot describe how lame the plot of Inquisition was.
To be fair that was already the case in Dragon Age 2 when the DLC explained it was not really their fault but Corypheus memes and thin veil nonsense making everyone literally moronic (but conveniently not you or your party members, as is usually the case in DA)
So it's not like it was a shock.
>Resolve major plots and/or loose ends in shitty books that nobody reads so you don't know how things end >Introduce new plots in shitty dlcs that nobody buys so when you play the sequel you don't understand why things are happening
That's Bioware for ya
Compromise is stupid anyway. One side winds up losing and the other side winds up unhappy. If one side is going to lose either way, you might as well at least let one side win.
Based and same. I killed him because he was a gay. Same with the gay elf in origins. The worst part of inquisition was that you couldn't kill all the homosexual characters.
DAO had mediocre gameplay that was held up by the story and characters.
DA2 had so many problems relating to gameplay and the recycling of locations that the story can't hold it up on it's own.
Man I decided to play an elf in Inquisition and only now did I really notice the fricking femboyisation of elves throughout the series, like holy shit this motherfricker has no shoulders, literally looks like a stick.
Because they were never gigachad versions of humans but with pointy ears.
That's what classic elves used to be. Otherworldly, slender, gracious and elegant.
Assuming you sided with the mages, what would be the most interesting outcome for the world, that reeks of pure potencial and interesting storylines, without taking away the feeling of victory for the player? So neither a full "everyone accepts them and nothing bad ever happens", nor a "everyone is hyper aggro and everything goes bad all the time."
It's really simple, there really is no compromise between power gaps that are too big. Mages are beyond powerful. Magic is not equal in it's distribution.
If you're a simple moron, you are cattle.
If you're a mage, you're the next step in human evolution. You can apply the same logic to the class divide of our world and no amount of restrictions or rules imposed on the rich they still decide our lives entirely. We cannot defeat or destroy such a nameless force either, trying to is like trying to kill off greed or ambition. The only way is to physically catch each person and genetically remove it, which is not only realistic logistically but even if somehow accomplished it will still find a way to manifest in our behavior, culture and lives as a necessity due to the hardships of the world, thus we also have to remove the hardships of the world as well, which all in all is simply impossible.
As a regular peasant, there's nothing you can do. As a templar, you can only fight or hope for a temporary truce. This struggle will never know an end because that is human nature. The sane can be applied to the neanderthal and the homosexual sapiens, one had the ability to marathon for longer periods if time and the other could only sprint shirt distances, in essence you could say that it's very similar to having magic powers. They struggled, fought each other constantly. Guess who died off in the end? Those with power linger, those without die off.
>If you're a mage, you're the next step in human evolution.
So are Grey Wardens or Templars technically, this is where the entire DA "lore" comes crashing down, because surprisingly enough the mages are always the big bad guys of the story, never the lyrium addicted mutants or the larping schizos who are magically immune to giga AIDS, mind controls etc just because they are.
You can make a mage Tranquil but you can't do the same with a Templar or a Grey Warden, yet when either of these frick up it's always the mages' fault somehow, never their own.
DAO?
Mages bad because blood magic and abominations, templars...something something bad but they did bad things because mages are worse so templars=good.
Loghain? I don't know who you're talking about, now let's go kill some Darkspawns homie
DA2?
Mages bad because blood magic and abomination, also Kirkwall is especially fricked up so mages go batshit even harder for some reason, neverming the red lyrium addicts, those are unfortunate victims of circumstances, also Corypheus so mages bad X2.
DA:I?
Mages bad even though no blood magic or abominations, but Templars AND Grey Wardens also bad...except there's Corypheus again manipulating all of them so Mages still bad and Solas is also a mage AND an elf so Mages bad bad bad, if you choose to play as a mage everyone will still remind you daily that mages bad, oh yeah and Qunari bad too.
Technically Grey Warden method of gain immunity is basically blood magic mix with the Taint. Like they literally drink Darkspawn Blood. Grey Warden also keep their initiate ritual a secret and beside immune to AIDS, they don't have any special power that could threaten anyone. Not to mention they basically sit out of most political conflicts so no one care about them until the Blight happen.
>they don't have any special power that could threaten anyone.
Did you forget that drinking Darkspawn blood makes them not just tainted but hear the voices of the old gods, which is why most Grey Wardens ends up being schizos, on top of being controlled by Corypheus not once but twice in the series? They're not the chantry's glowies who gain those superpowers the legit way.
Not like you need any special power to be a danger to people anyways, that's another thing the writers use for their mages bad business, but again, if it's a grey warden, a seeker or a templar they're just poor victims, it's the lyrium/red lyrium/darkspawn blood's fault after all, not the people...unless it's a mage of course.
I don't see that mages are bad but rather with great power need great responsibility. If a Grey Warden go bad, he basically just a guy with a sword, same with Templar. If a mage go bad, the consequence is far greater. Most mages basically don't have what it take to control their power and is far more easy to be influence by demons.
>If a Grey Warden go bad, he basically just a guy with a sword
And the taint, and the fact that Grey Wardens are much more capable than any normal militia outside of Seekers and Templars. >same with Templar
Templars are superhuman fighters that can also turn into literal monsters through red lyrium.
Nevermind how they are a literal time bomb waiting to explode because 99% of them are lyrium addicts who eventually go either completely fricking crazy or, "luckily", turn into potatoes.
But noooooo, mages are the dangerous guys, not the nutjobs who willingly taint themselves with Darkspawn blood, not the lyrium junkies who can also turn into another flavour of Darkspawn if they eat too much Red Lyrium, not the chantry's glowies, it's the mages who are bad and dangerous.
I can't take this premise seriously, I'm actually curious to see how they will keep writing this shit in the next game where Solas tears the veil down since the veil is the actual cause of mages going batshit anyway, really wanna see how they keep pushing the mages bad narrative with that, or if they make a 180°
2 years ago
Anonymous
>the fact that Grey Wardens are much more capable than any normal militia
They are not. They are only good against Darkspawn because they are the only one who can kill the Archdemon and can unite everyone under a common cause. >Templars are superhuman fighters that can also turn into literal monsters through red lyrium.
No, against guys with swords they basically just normal dudes with swords, consuming Lyrium just give them the ability to deal damage to demons and silent mages. Against non-mage they just normal dudes. And the red lyrium is a later discovery, no one even know it exist before DA2. >veil is the actual cause of mages going batshit anyway
No? The Veil just a barrier to prevent the Fade and the real world from interact with each other. Mages go batshit because of demons which have nothing to do with the Veil but just a part of the meta verse in Thedas.
Grey Wardens aren't numerous. And the templars aren't nearly as strong as mages, their strength lies in numbers which clearly dwindle with each game. Mages even in low numbers are just too strong and in time it won't be something anyone can handle.
If magic is so powerful on it's own, why the frick would any mage ever turn to Blood Magic? The regular kind should be enough. And with Magic itself being such a tremendous advantage, Blood Mages should have enough power to dominate and rule the whole world like kings...
Oh wait that's exactly what the Tevinter Imperium was. Until it shat the bed and collapsed, that it.
>why the frick would any mage ever turn to Blood Magic?
Fear. Ethics. Morality. Tons of reasons actually, it's not that Magic is not enough it's that Mages are brought up and taught in a certain way. Take the tower mages for example, they are under constant strict supervision of the templars and are guided into a relatively moral and ethical lifestyle, albeit limited in freedom but very directed when it comes to their magic use.Most people in general wouldn't exactly jump at the opportunity to start using blood magic just because it exists. It takes a specific situation for a mage to start using it and to even want to "dominate and rule the whole world like kings", very few actually want that, most just want peace and to be left alone.
Because in about 95% of cases normal mages use blood magic in time of desperation. Crazy as it sounds, some regular students in shitty hogwards have some constraints when it comes to cut their own wrists like a psychopath. Also, the regular guy isnt that wild to go down the evil wizard route to live the life of a fantasy terrorist. Thats not what average people do.
He was right. There can be no compromise, all mages need to be purged.
andraste was a mage
cope
Who?
That homosexual never survived in any game,what a pathetic useless whinny shit
Gotta hand it to her writer she wrote a character that i hate with a passion that means she did a good job
It wasn’t even really him by the end. He literally got consumed by the spirit of SJW.
I don't know how people play this boring ass game past that dreamworld level where you're doing mazes
>biggest gay in the game
>homophobic
Huh?
>Huh?
He literally goes on a rant about how "everyone is bi" and how you're a bigot if you don't like both men and women, claiming that gays and straight's love is not real because "why would you shy away from loving someone for their body"
He's gross homophobic trash.
>claiming that gays and straight's love is not real because "why would you shy away from loving someone for their body"
This ideology sounds like the natural end result of homos blurring love and sex in an attempt to present themselves as romantics instead of perverts.
Well said
Indeed, we'll said
Do me a favor and choke on cum next time you're having a sausage party.
That just makes him a based gender-abolitionist. Don't lie, if your brainworms didn't tell you "eww", you'd be a hundred times more happy living in a mariage with another chud like you instead of a woman.
Real nonlarping gays just frick strangers in hotel rooms while smoking meth all day so you never hear from them on the internet
so monogamous homos with a boyfriend and a job that don't overdose on drugs are just larping straight people?
middle life crisis
Technically yes but the moron should have just gone and nuked the templar HQ instead of the innocent nuns who just wanted peace.
Killed him anyways since he was obviously completely insane by act 3.
Killing the templar will militarize the Chantry itself. Elthina would have rallied the population against Anders for killing Meredith and the Templar as some sort of crazy mage who is trying to declare war on the Templars in a suicide run
I will say his homosexuality was a safe way to have a romantic relationship without watching babies get snatched from them when the Templars find out. At least he believed there was one thing the Templars can take from him and that was the right to be in love
> Elthina would have rallied the population against Anders for killing Meredith and the Templar as some sort of crazy mage who is trying to declare war on the Templars in a suicide run
why would anders give a shit about that? At least a mage taking down templars makes sense from a revenge POV, but regardless the chantry AND the templars both still rallied against anders and painted him as 'some sort of crazy mage trying to declare war', if anything, again, killing the innocent nuns who were just trying to negotiate peace (however futile that would be), is way WAY worse to the public eye than a mage attacking the templars (who even peasants know are basically their jailers) would be.
>I killed Elthina to make a point there can no peace no matter how hard I tried. Nothing will change, at best we are going to live with heavy compromises and pretend all the mages who died or got tranquilized will enjoy the benefits of freedom at the hands of our former oppressors
Vs
>I killed Meredith, Mage/Templar War now! Let's fricking body ourselves against one of the most powerful military bodies and hope those Templars will give up once we killed every last one of them fricks. Wait why are you mages not helping me in the fight? Thought you hated the Templars?
Elthina can convince Hawke to side with her a lot easier than Meredith can and this also makes Hawke choose between him or their chances or taking Kirkwall from the Templar by becoming a symbol because at this point Anders lost control of Vengeance as well and wanted to go out on his terms
Both options would equal the Templars going ham and going to war against the mages though. As things are the situation would have turned out exactly the same either way. If Anders had nuked a Templar building it still would have been used as justification for the right of annulment and obviously the mages of Kirkwall wouldn't just lie down and let themselves get killed, especially due to the actions of one lunatic.
If anything attacking the Templars would have made the mages at least a bit more sympathetic to the fight since they also hate the Templars directly, not the chantry as a whole (for the most part). Killing the innocent nuns just makes all mages look WAY worse than they already do (which Vivienne mentions) to the general populace, and only serves to make the mages position look even more hopeless and not worth fighting for compared to if they had just attacked the Templars who were the direct antagonists to them.
>Technically yes but the moron should have just gone and nuked the templar HQ instead of the innocent nuns who just wanted peace.
>
>Killed him anyways since he was obviously completely insane by act 3.
He is a white man that attacked the israelites instead of nazi.
>Technically yes but the moron should have just gone and nuked the templar HQ instead of the innocent nuns who just wanted peace
That kills the mages though, they live in the same place. Unless you mean templar HQ in Orlais, where the seekers live.
smaller scale nuke in the Templar HQ of kirkwall, is what I mean, their building is off from the side compared to the actual circle.
Isn't the first Enchanter office literally across Meredith's office?
that was stupid level design on Bioware's part
The entire game is bad level design
lol aint that the truth
still like it tho
You can like bad games despite what Ganker says, you just cant pretend that it's a good game
Too bad you cant romance her, eh
Obviously not, there was clearly a compromise because he went out of his way to remove the chance for it.
The towers were the only compromise which would be unacceptable for any self respecting mage
>there's no compromise already so I removed compromise
The direct implication is that he achieved nothing whatsoever, thus his actions were pointless.
I'd consider pointless destruction wrong, so imo he was wrong, yes.
WAR NOW LET THERE BE WAR
10 minutes into inquisition:
Okay war is done pack it up everyone.
It's more that the Inquisition is made up of people who realize that saving the world is more important. Later on in the game, you're given the chance to wrap up the Templar-Mage war to your satisfaction, once you've solved a few immediate threats.
>unregluated magic
>any mage can be a time bomb that can wipe out villages or city districts
Only a complete moron thinks that no compromise needs to be made when it involves magic.
Also DA2 Anders wa a moron.
I do like that the game let you call him a moron until he finally realized it was true. Same with Merrill.
Is there a SINGLE mage in Dragon Age that isn't a complete moron? Except for pic related ofc
Wynne is also one but she's an old bat who's about to die anyway so cares about her
She already died, though.
ok fair enough I guess
She also died for real in one of the novels. She's the only party member from any game who is confirmed dead, though I also believe they're strongly hinting that killing Anders is the canon choice.
>killing Anders is the canon choice.
every canon choice is dumb, what's the point of giving the choice in the first place?
See the previous posts, as well as
. It's never been outright stated in the games to be canon, but "killing Anders" is such an overwhelmingly preferred option that BioWare barely pretends it isn't canon.
oh ok, I see. looked some part of your post.
But still lame tho, same with Leliana's fate
>though I also believe they're strongly hinting that killing Anders is the canon choice.
I am still seething over them not going through the original plan of Justice isn't the spirit inside Anders.
QRD?
originally its going to be Velanna that merged with Justice plus more Nathaniel involvement instead of just being part of one-off and highly missable side quest.
like most stuff explored in Awakening, they never brings it up again nor explored further.
Wynne was best girl and I wanted to romance her
me too, anon
DA2 Anders already fused with Justice, there was nothing left of Awakening Anders by Act 3
The problem is that neither Anders or Justice behaved like they should've in DA2.
The writer simply decided that they fused and wrote a character that had nothing to do with either Anders or Justice.
The idea of Anders even fusing with Justice to begin with makes no sense.
Overall writing of DA2 is awful.
In Awakenings, Justice inhabited a dead body. He could tap into the Grey Warden's memories, but the spirit was the only one behind the wheel and all his decisions reflected that.
In DA2 Justice now has to contend with mortal vagueries and perceptions of right and wrong. As a multiple-time apostate who's seen his friends made Tranquil, Anders has a unique view on what constitutes justice.
If it wasn't clear, the mix of Anders and Justice would not result in the full blown moronic literal homosexual that is Anders in DA2. As in the elements of each is not present in Anders+Justice.
Take his sexual orientation for instance. Justice had no interest in sex and shit, it's a spirit. Anders had the hots for women.
Unless your argument (or the writer) is that either personality no longer matter, since both were mixed in a blender effectively creating a new individual that has absolutely nothing from either Anders or Justice in it.
But that's not only dogshit writing, but also way less interesting. IF you wanted to mix the two, you should be able to clearly see each distinct personality of each in the new individual. Which you don't.
It just comes across as the writer being ignorant, shit or just not caring and wanting to make their crazed homosexual terrorist.
The homosexual shit didn't make sense, but the moronic bit does to some extent, considering how its clear that a spirit of justice couldn't reasonably exist and fulfil its purpose in real life.
Anders' own biased views corrupted justice with those same biases, and Justices' extremist black or white mentality corrupted Anders in turn and made him WAY less tolerant of anything he considers wrong. It's just a constant negative feedback loop until Anders inevitably goes insane because he's unable to accept that wrongs and injustice will always exist in this world and there's no way to get rid of them forever, which is presumably why he just goes full nuclear and decides itd be better for mages to die for the sake of justice now rather than suffer under the heel of the templars until they die even worse off later.
Wynne was able to exist peacefully with the spirit of Faith that possessed her since faith is something that can exist in an imperfect shitty world without losing its purpose/identity, Justice is just way too strict a concept to be able to do that, so it ended up corrupted and took Anders along with it. Even Cole went through a similar kind of conflict as Anders because of his purpose as compassion clashing with his human biases and trauma, and that can only be solved by changing his entire nature to be more human or more spirit (and the more spirit option eventually just makes him leave back to the fade)
Anders was possessed by justice so it does make sense in the setting
Because originally, it was not supposed to be Anders who got Justice'd, but Velanna. Then Bioware realized nobody gives a frick about Velanna, so they spilt this character into Merill and Anders/Justice.
It's unironically difficult to remember the fact Discout Morrigan Model Swap exists, so I can understand that much on their part.
Yeah, but it would actually make way more sense story-wise to have it be Velanna, than have Anders have a total personality shift.
You say that but she was more memorable than Isabela and Meril. Especially Meril who won't even appear on most playthroughs of dao.
Velanna was memorable to me because of her
>reeeee humans
Shame we cant romance
she getting insecure about her giant ear is also cute
killing a bunch of humans over some fake news however is not so cute
>merrill and anders are bother severely moronic
>every single other mage except you and your sister immediately turns to blood magic at the drop of a hat
>including the first enchanter
>who knows about and is complicit in murders of the mage serial killer that kills your mother
If DA2 was trying to make my sympathetic to mages they did a terrible job. Fenris is right about mages.
>If DA2 was trying to make my sympathetic to mages they did a terrible job
I always felt it was the other way around.
DAO came across as a bit "Mages are unfairly persecuted, and most problems are caused by over zealous Templars"
DA2 showed that some mages are just bug-frick crazy, and Templars are necessary.
From devs posts on the old bioware forums I really got the impression they thought mages were their equivalent of mutants and they were tonedeaf to how badly they were portrayed in DA2.
>DAO came across as a bit "Mages are unfairly persecuted, and most problems are caused by over zealous Templars
What? DAO provided a more templar-leaning grey stance on the matter.
such as?
Not that anon but
is a good example.
I am so ashamed that I spared this abortion of a character and thus lost the kino paladin rogue guy. I still remember Anders from the first game. The joking, roguish mage who just made dumb jokes all the time. And then this gay. Worst part is I played a mage Hawke and could heal so I literally didn't need to save him. Only did it because one is from the main cast and the other's a dlc character. Frick you, Anders. And frick all mages. Game tries to make you feel sympathetic while literally every single one of them either turns into a demon or has dealings with one.
>literally every single one of them
Ironically every single one aside from those who aren't part of the circle, lmao. Bioware was so focused in making the conflict feel nuanced and make templar behaviour at least partially reasonable that they didn't realize they fricked up the whole setting in the attempt.
I hate the "i'm so totally unique" type people, mostly women and gays, who always side with mages and see the Templars as evil villains who have no reason to be concerned about walking nukes who are also demon dick sleeves.
I can see someone siding with the mages in Origins because the Circle is run well and they get along with the Templars overseeing them. By contrast Kirkwall shows exactly why the Circle being under the watch of the Templars is necessary.
Pretty much my view on it. Mages are alright in 1, siding with Templars in 2 is the only moral option.
I remember reading a codex entry saying that the Veil is thin in Kirkwall's Gallow causing Mages there to go apeshit regularly.
Mages are inherently dangerous but Mages in Kirkwall is especially dangerous.
Yep, its because the place used to be the site of a LOT of blood magic rituals back when Tevinter owned the city, so it ended up weakening the veil there significantly.
There was even a group of magisters who for some fricking reason did rituals to intentionally make the veil weaker for some reason, probably just some weird experiment shit.
I don't really know why they thought it'd be a good place for a Circle.
Probably akin to similar, obviously non-magical RL situations.
I.E. Actual records about all of the fricked up shit is mostly lost or explicitly destroyed, especially in the fact that Tevinter shit is about as Persona non Grata as possible to the Orlesian Chantry and its spinoffs. Long after said important information is gone, people used the existing structures/relics for their own purposes, largely unware in how that may conflict with the actual point of why said place was built and how that would frick up their plans.
Eh, I mean the chantry definitely knows it was a BIG slave trading hub of Tevinter, and has even been actively working to destroy the statues of the tevinter old gods that line the cliffs leading into the city.
Regardless, experienced mages do seem to be able to tell when the veil is weird/thin in certain areas, so it definitely feels like SOMEONE would have noticed the place was magically fricked up to the point where they just shouldn't be there. Though I guess the chantry could have also just been lazy enough to not want to relocate their circle somewhere else after it was already established.
Don't forget the chantry guy would have to actually listen to a mage on that matter.
While it gets to ridiculous levels in DA2, it's well shown in even DAO that such a caveat is far from common expectation. Actually realistic, although probably not intentional.
Well Kirkwall like most country need a Circle. Where are they gonna put their Circle. Kirkwall is more akin to a free city so their territory isn't much
A city-state like kirkwall isn't really large enough on its own to really NEED a circle though, there are actually plenty of other circles already within the Free Marches (Starkhaven/Ansburg/Hasmal/Markham, and Ostwick) so it shouldn't really matter if there isn't a Circle tower exactly within the city.
5 Potential Circles should be more than enough for the Free marches as a whole, at least enough to ensure that they don't NEED another one in a literally cursed city.
Due to the barrier to the Fade being extremely thin, Kirkwall produces an inordinate amount of magic users. Hence the need for a Circle of their own. Also, it's an open secret amongst people in the know that a very high percentage of those users are either unstable and/or turn bad, so I doubt they'd want them mixing in with the more "stable" Circles.
so the Gallow is basically a mental institution for mages, very nice. good job Chantry
Where are you getting that kirkwall produces extra mages?
I know they produce extra abominations.
>There was even a group of magisters who for some fricking reason did rituals to intentionally make the veil weaker for some reason, probably just some weird experiment shit.
Isn't the running theory that Kirkwall is where they breached the veil to try and enter the Golden City?
>Mages are inherently dangerous but Mages in Kirkwall is especially dangerous.
Then why the frick did they build a circle tower there?
>isolated
>out on a small island
>far enough from Kirkwall to keep the populace safe
>not far enough from Kirkwall to intervene in case of shit went down
its strategic but still that doesn't address why the Chantry would built it where the Veil is notoriously thin.
>its strategic but still that doesn't address why the Chantry would built it where the Veil is notoriously thin.
Yes that's my point. There's no circle in Denerim nor in Amaranthine so it's not like there needs to be a tower in every city, so why not just fricking skip Kirkwall and build that specific tower literally anywhere else?
>There's no circle in Denerim nor in Amaranthine so it's not like there needs to be a tower in every city
because it's not strategic and safe to do so, the Circle in Ferelden was in a tower situated at the middle of a lake remember?
as for why the Chantry would build a Circle in demon infested Gallow despite being strategically located is beyond me, maybe they're just stupid idk
fair enough
It more like each country have their own Circle. Kirkwall is a city-state, not just a normal city. SO unless they want to bring mage to another country everytime they caught one then it would be the most convenient to build near their city
Even the Ferelden circle had problems. The Templars for their part were actually fine and Gregoir's restraint was near inhuman. The circle was one step away from the worst-case scenario and he still held off on the right of annulment in case there were still some good mages alive in there. The same can't be said for Irving however.
Irving insisted on playing politics with Jowan and could very well have killed himself, Gregoir, and many others in the tower with his stupidity if Jowan had been reacted anymore violently. He risked all that just because he wanted the chantry to be embarrassed, and so a powerful and emotionally unstable Maleficarum was left to wander the countryside with little experience to stave off the influence of demons and no phylactery to track him. Even if Irving never stooped to blood magic, he's still the first in a long line of mages that will throw caution and safety to the wind for their own short-sighted benefit.
>who are also demon dick sleeves.
Everyone says that if you dabble in Blood Magic, it'll spell disaster and abominations and demons will be everwhere. The Chantry says so and that's why we need the Circle and Templars, to prevent that. But look at Tevinter, a country filled to the brim with blood mages. Is it a shithole country? Yes. Do the mages in charge of the country practice slavery and live in decadence while everyone else is suffering because of constant Qunari attacks? Yes. Does it show that mages probably shouldn't run a society? Yes. Is it filled with abominations and demons? NO, IT IS NOT. The Chantry is full of shit, Blood Magic is not the problem. It is an overblown scare tactic meant to prevent a problem that is nowhere near as big as they think it is.
The only reason blood magic has a firm association with demons at the time of the games is because the Chantry burned all existing the literature on blood magic, so the only way left to learn it is from a demon. There's not actually anything more 'demonic' about it than any other kind of magic (all mages are at risk of abomination, not just blood mages). If you were lucky enough to find an intact book on the subject or a mage to teach you, you'd never have to make a pact with a demon to learn it.
>Yes. Is it filled with abominations and demons? NO, IT IS NOT.
Actually according to the Tevinter book, demons are everywhere, the ruling mage class just doesn't care unless it affects them.
The real danger of blood magic is its mind control properties, any sufficiently-skilled blood mage can turn the king into their puppet.
>Everyone says that if you dabble in Blood Magic, it'll spell disaster and abominations and demons will be everwhere. The Chantry says so and that's why we need the Circle and Templars, to prevent that. But look at Tevinter, a country filled to the brim with blood mages. Is it a shithole country? Yes. Do the mages in charge of the country practice slavery and live in decadence while everyone else is suffering because of constant Qunari attacks? Yes. Does it show that mages probably shouldn't run a society? Yes. Is it filled with abominations and demons? NO, IT IS NOT. The Chantry is full of shit, Blood Magic is not the problem. It is an overblown scare tactic meant to prevent a problem that is nowhere near as big as they think it is.
Actually when they bring up Blood Magic they usually bring up it's capability for fricking MIND CONTROL. Hence the whole "magic is to serve man, not rule over him" thing.
And the Tevinters abso-fricking-lutely use the mind control aspect.
I thought the chantry hated blood mages because blood mages can puppeteer other people's bodies (extremely taboo in their religion), and because it bypasses the anti-magic of their templars if they don't have special anti-blood magic amulets on them, and because it creates a strong motivator to perform human sacrifices. Also some of them seem to think that using blood magic at all corrupts people because it just does okay?
Didn't that apprentice in the mage origin of origins learn blood magic just by reading a book about it that was sitting in the local tower's library?
>Didn't that apprentice in the mage origin of origins learn blood magic just by reading a book about it that was sitting in the local tower's library?
Maybe. There is no implication old whatshiface learned blood magic from a demon.
But he could have learned it from one of the conspirators instead of an old book. We don't know either way.
Jowan iirc was originally going to be a companion so him having unanswered questions is just a result of him not being there at the camp.
>A third mage companion
Jesus christ, why? Your party is already bullshit OP with just two.
three*
Yes I'm aware it's even more broken with the PC being a mage as well.
Fricking imagine a 4-mage party.
God yes, imagine it. We wouldn't even need the other party members.
You don't even need other party members if you're playing an Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage or Spirit Healer.
> Also some of them seem to think that using blood magic at all corrupts people because it just does okay?
It certainly does SOMETHING to you, even Solas who is perfectly fine with blood magic (as long as you're using yourself/willing people for fuel) says he specifically doesn't use it because it somehow weakens a mages connection to the fade over time. That definitely carries the implication that something weird is up with blood magic.
> Is it filled with abominations and demons? NO, IT IS NOT
The book set in tevinter reveals that demons are indeed a real problem in Tevinter, though regardless, they DO still have circles there where mages are taught to avoid shit with demons.
Also it actually makes more sense that there'd be less instances of demons overall since one of the big things with blood magic is that you can only get so much power from your own blood, which is why so many blood mages in Ferelden/Orlais/Free Marches turn to demons, because they don't have enough power to do what they want alone. That's less of an issue in tevinter because of the fricking slavery making it so that if you need more power you can just take it from your slaves rather than make a deal with a demon. It's not exactly a great alternative, at least from a moral POV.
Are there demons because of abominations, or because the veil is weaker thanks to them abusing blood magic so much that the demons are just able to cross dimensions there?
I'd like to believe that tis a bit of both
Anders is a mentally ill homosexual.
Compromising almost always means giving in a little bit to the more popular side which ultimately just means slowly surrendering to the other side.
He was right from a practical standpoint, especially if you support mages in the setting at all (yes, don't pretend bethany doesn't count). Still stupid as hell, especially with poorer than usual writing shredding up almost all of the nuance on why he killed Elthina, essentially leaving it as the most destructive form of assisted suicide.
the plot of da2 will never make sense to zoomers because they don’t remember the anal marriage hysteria of the early 2010s; think blm x10. Mages Rights are such a self evidently correct position the writers felt the need to make them all jackasses to make the story “nuanced “.
no one asked
>mages become free, treat them like people
>they have their own schools and such
>strengthen and reform the templars and have them become an independent organization that works closely with their host state/local law enforcement
>let mages join the templars, templars shouldn't hate mages and should work with them frequently
>and thus any dark evil mage/abomination would be hunted down easy
>strengthen and reform the templars and have them become an independent organization that works closely with their host state/local law enforcement
>let mages join the templars, templars shouldn't hate mages and should work with them frequently
So, make Templars into Grey Wardens, but used against apostates instead of Darkspawn? I.e. an underfunded, underhanded, universally ignored, constantly politically sidelined organization?
The whole Chantry and Templars thing is - the Chantry pays for their shit and gives them actual political influence.
>So, make Templars into Grey Wardens, but used against apostates instead of Darkspawn?
Grey Wardens (with the exception of Ferelden Grey Wardens apparently) mostly stayed out of the local govt business.
>an underfunded, underhanded, universally ignored, constantly politically sidelined organization
>The whole Chantry and Templars thing is - the Chantry pays for their shit and gives them actual political influence.
except that Templars will not be underhanded, will not be universally ignored and will play a big role in politics even if they are independent or reformed. because unlike Darkspawn, who only really threatens Orzammar when there's no Blight, the threat of rogue mages and maleficarum are very real and is a threat to normal people everywhere in Thedas. the perceived threat alone will make sure that the Templars wont be ignored at least when it comes to matters about mages and magic.
The only problem I see with the solution is shit will get worse if the independent Templars rebel or went rogue.
> the threat of rogue mages and maleficarum are very real
The threat of Darkspawn is also very real - it never keeps the polities from ignoring the very real threat until it's too late.
>- Please, we're almost out of recruits and we have NO money to even feed ourselves, send help!
>- Why the frick should our kingdom feed and arm you useless insubordinate squatters?
>- Don't you understand, the apostates could be upon as at any minute!
>- Well I don't see any apostates here now, you're just scaremongering about a bogus threat. Begone.
And even when shit does hit the fan, nobles would much prefer having their own subordinate forces to deal with abominations rather than independent hobo Templars.
>The only problem I see with the solution is shit will get worse if the independent Templars rebel or went rogue.
And do what? Common-mill banditry? Beyond their anti-magic bullshit, Templars are just dudes in armor - and without money from Chantry and exploitation of Circles, they won't even have armor.
fair points, this is all assuming that the Templars would get reformed/independence in the first place but one thing
>And do what? Common-mill banditry? Beyond their anti-magic bullshit, Templars are just dudes in armor - and without money from Chantry and exploitation of Circles, they won't even have armor.
I'm talking about in the context this guy
Templar reform proposal. I meant that Mages alone are already dangerous, when combined with Templars anti-magic capabilities they would be unstoppable if they decided to rebel.
>I meant that Mages alone are already dangerous, when combined with Templars anti-magic capabilities they would be unstoppable if they decided to rebel.
Not really an issue - as who would the Templars use their anti-magic capabilities against, if the mages are already on their side?
To elaborate, that's how the Circle functioned and why Ferelden was considered more liberal with the freedoms they grant mages. At the same time, it's entirely up to the Templars to maintain those freedoms. Ferelden's Circle could have changed overnight because Greagoir got moved to another Circle and some zealot took over as Knight-Commander or Irving died and no one was able to take his place politically as an effective counterbalance towards the Knight-Commander.
The entire system is heavily rigged against the Mages losing rights and privileges at a moments notice because of circumstances beyond their control. At the end of the day, they're prisoners. Even the most stand-up and noble mages like Bethany who should never need any restrictions will be a prisoner alongside the most depraved of the bunch. Not always for anything they've done but for religious intolerance creating heavy suspicion that they WILL do something as soon as you take the boot of their face.
Meant for
That's basically just police enforcement IRL which already doesn't work. Plus mages can't ever really go 'free' without extensive tracking and documentation (and also mandatory enforced education) at the very least since if there's ever instances of mage children not being educated on how to use their magic (either by laziness or neglect or whatever) it could easily end up with dozens of innocent people dying the moment they have a temper tantrum (even a good mage like Wynne could've almost killed a kid when she set him on fire just because he was making fun of her)
Mages are in general just way too dangerous to be able to permanently live free without some kind of severe negative consequences stemming from it. Best that they can really do in the dragon age world is follow the example of Vivienne's circle, just with some extra conditions. Mages can live outside the tower as long as they've A) passed their harrowing, and B) earned permission from the first enchanter. Then the added conditions would probably be that they can't live beyond a certain distance from the tower/outside the country that tower is in without transferring to a different tower + they have to report back every few months or something to confirm they're still living where they say they are and haven't run off or whatever.
Also obviously reforming the templars would be a given. Have them go through better education about mages as people so they aren't as hysterically scared of them (or rather, only seeing them like criminals instead of just people they need to be mostly guardians for) as they seem to be in the games. Also giving the templars an actual functioning watchdog system would probably help to deal with issues of templars abusing the personal rights of mages without consequence (The seekers really don't count at this point since they're more just like 'extreme' templars who take on jobs that normal templars cant, rather than just existing as a normal watchdog system)
>Mages can live outside the tower as long as they've A) passed their harrowing, and B) earned permission from the first enchanter. Then the added conditions would probably be that they can't live beyond a certain distance from the tower/outside the country that tower is in without transferring to a different tower + they have to report back every few months or something to confirm they're still living where they say they are and haven't run off or whatever.
That's literally how the Ferelden Circle functioned.
> That's literally how the Ferelden Circle functioned.
No it didn't? Ferelden circle mages weren't allowed to live outside the tower unless they were on some kind of important assignment or something like Wynne. Otherwise they had to live their lives there and weren't allowed to leave just like most other circles.
Monsimmard's circle was the only one mentioned to ACTUALLY let mages go live outside for no real reason other than to just live free(ish)
not that anon
>Otherwise they had to live their lives there and weren't allowed to leave just like most other circles.
another example of lax Circle is Ostwick Circle, where the parent of mages with noble background simply just bribed the Templars to let their children come back home once in a while, which is pretty nice (if you're a noble child that is)
>guys, let's put the mages with mind control powers in charge of keeping mage mind control in check, it's a much fairer system!
Blood mage hands typed this
No he was a moron
A pretty well written moron nonetheless
see this is why I like DA, even if the game is dogshit burrito the lore autism is still strong
DA2 in theory could have been a good game at least writing-wise, it needed a little more time in the oven. The idea of a man who rises to fame in fortune yet despite his wealth is powerless to save those he loves, is a compelling personal story to tell. They just tell it really badly.
The idea of the entire game taking place in a single city is amazing. It's just that the city was god-awful and barely changes in 10 (TEN) years the story spans.
Sad part is I think one of the devs outright said that if they had gotten more time the game premise probably would have been entirely different to begin with. So it was something we only would have ever gotten a shitty view of since it was made under a desperate timeframe.
If bioware was actually able to be trusted nowadays I'd genuinely be interested in some kind of re-make of da2 that goes the extra mile in changing some of the story elements as well as introducing more unique areas and such.
>If Bioware was actually to be trusted
But unfortunately,
THEY ARE ONLY HUMAN AFTER ALL~
Well remember that game was only given 14 months in the oven by EA (but in reality it was closer to 9 months)
What always blows my fricking mind is that the caves in DA2 were just the same map reused over and over. When I heard that my immediate assumption was "Oh, so the city has a massive cave network underneath it that gets reused constantly? That's pretty cool." But no they really did just reuse the same map over and over and hoped no one would notice.
>When I heard that my immediate assumption was "Oh, so the city has a massive cave network underneath it that gets reused constantly? That's pretty cool."
Lol. Lmao.
NTA but pretty sure he meant the reused look not the actual level design itself. I mean its a sewer ffs obviously its going to look samey
Nah I meant they'd have just one huge ass cave network under Kirkwall with multiple entry points being used by bandits, rogue mages, thugs, monsters, who move in after you clear it out, give an added context to the setting and continuity or something. Instead two completely different caves in completely different locations look exactly the same.
oh that sounds cool actually
I want to live in the universe where EA never bought Bioware and DA2 is one of the best rpgs ever made. Fricking sucks, man.
Bioware was bought by EA because they went over the budget when making DAO, and they needed money. It was a deal with the devil, yes, but they've made it for a reason.
>blaming ea that there isn’t a huge market for gay Minotaur dating simulators
nice bait, here's your (You)
now go on
You also have to think alot of the circles are in the countryside. Imagine if you had to hunt mages turned bandit or worse demon hosts through the fricking woods with every small hamlet in the area now in danger.
Vgh!
Yes critics usually have better taste.
>critics usually have better taste.
Critics are paid writing-prostitutes.
He's right.
>Mages will always be born
>Templars can't be everywhere at once
>Anything less than a full army of templars routinely jobs to abominations
>Have to drink Lyrium 24/7 just to stab demons to death kek
The answer is simple, take all the templars, sacrifice them in a blood magic ritual, physically go into the fade, kill every fricking demon shit Doomguy style.
>Pro-tip you can just use a cheap ritual to go into the fade while awake but the mass slaughter of paladin larpers is a feature not a bug.
wouldnt going in the Fade for a long time causes the mage body to rot irl?
>send mages into a mysterious realm, no one truly understands, to just kill extremely powerful beings, also not truly understood by anyone, who can possess said mages, causing them to wreak havoc in the material world.
What could possibly go wrong? might as well send some dudes into the deep roads to simply kill all the darkspawn while their at it.
>What could possibly go wrong? might as well send some dudes into the deep roads to simply kill all the darkspawn while their at it.
Yes.
>What could possibly go wrong? might as well send some dudes into the deep roads to simply kill all the darkspawn while their at it.
basically Grey Wardens without the whole darkspawn blood drinking ritual thing
If my Warden felt like it he could go into the deep roads and make the darkspawn extinct himself.
100% this. Warden+Party waltz right through and take back Bownammar in a couple of weeks (at most). Should've just been able to draw out the archdemon in that cutscene in the ravine, kill it, and then just kill darkspawn with the dwarves behind you until it's all clear.
your Warden is just one Warden, tbf it takes only two Wardens to take out the last Blight but still
>two
I mean you can just execute Alistair and still do it, so not even that.
nobody cares about Riordan lmao
I will admit I had entirely forgotten he existed up until right now.
I care. He was killed only to satisfy the grimderp story and setting and his vengeance has finally come. Now Dragon Age is dead as the new neon-coloured iteration is being made.
Does the series ever establish Warden powerlevels? Because to me it seemed they literally get nothing for their trouble outside of their advanced senses for Darkspawn and an early death, while their combat skills are all a result of training.
>Does the series ever establish Warden powerlevels?
heighten strength, heighten stamina, the usual. Alistair mentioned that a few months after being recruited he easily starves, probably due to the fact that the body needs more nutrition or something idk. Morrigan also noted that the Hero of Ferelden have unusual amount of endurance during sex.
The spidey sense for Darkspawn. Really though that's all you need. Immunity to ambush in the dark roads or during a blight, and the ability to actually put down the archdemon. Aside from that, you get to make the kind of decisive power grabbing political moves that need to be done to come down hard on a global threat without too much trouble because hey, you'll go insane and be dead in 20 years and you can't have kids.
Darkspawn are contagious animals that spread blight which corrupts all living things and turns them into ghouls. Velanna's sister Seranni is one such example. She hangs around The Architect who is basically patient zero for the darkspawn taint and slowly she starts withering away. There are two groups of wardens, combat arms that do the ritual and accept the taint that makes them get spidey sense and immunity to the darkspawn taint's effects. The other group are formally attached to the order but do not do the ritual like Woolsey who is the treasurer for the Ferelden branch.There is a serious failure in the story for DA:O and DA:A, the Warden's party fights shitloads of darkspawn yet the non Warden members like Zevren, Wynne, Sten, and Oghren don't suffer from taint related illness. Just being near darkspawn is enough to frick your shit and destroy the environment, everyone in the DAO party should have been fricked up by the end of the game.
The story goes that every party member was supposed to go through the Joining and become a Warden or die, but that was cut cause of time constraints and general bioware incompetence. Awakening was them revisiting that idea.
We need to murder all trannies like op
Should have been able to kill Anders earlier.
technically you can in Awakening but you know
Pft who cares about Awakening, it doesn't really matter anyway besides Nathaniel and one offhand comment by him about the Architect.
>Nathaniel: wtf i thought you died
>Anders: no i didnt
>Nathaniel: but-
>Anders: did i stutter?
>Nathaniel: oh nvm then
basically how it went
2nd most lamest handwaved death in DA after Leliana's death
Leliana seems like she was handwaved, but if you killed her in DAO it turns out it was a spirit larping as her in DAI.
So, she pulls a Wynne?
Nah, Wynne got abommed by a good spirit. If Leli is dead, a spirit is impersonating her like the one impersonating the Divine in the Fade.
>but if you killed her in DAO it turns out it was a spirit larping as her in DAI.
wait what
if you imported a World State in which Leliana died (she came back in DA2 and DAI even if you killed her btw you can even ask her about this), after the end of Trespasser DLC it's basically revealed that it was a Lyrium ghost/spirit masquerading as her, the real Leliana is long dead at that point.
you can kill Zevran in DAO but he still shows up in those dumb minigames mission thing regardless
BUT DID YOU CHECK HIS PULSE?
inb4 BW bringing him back in DA4 because dude Lyrium lmao
Nope,even bioware stated anders is never coming back
Hell he was the most killed ofg companion ever
I meant Zevran but good to know
Are you surprised? It's obvious that killing Anders was supposed to be the canon choice. BioWare even had a DLC character, who is in all regards a noble, reasonable person, go up to you and say "YOU ARE moronic IF YOU LET HIM LIVE".
Most based character in dao. should have had bigger role in 2 and 3. Also should have been frickable by girl cousland. But then maybe it's OK, since they would have made him cringe like anders.
Also what's with ogrhen being the returning character in awakening? Who liked him? Or did they just wanted steve blum again?
a lot of girls wanted to frick him, so they'll be a lot of competition even Oghren knows that.
>Also what's with ogrhen being the returning character in awakening? Who liked him? Or did they just wanted steve blum again?
I liked him but that's no excuse to bring him back. I believe his death in the base game also handwaved in Awakening which is also lame
Who the hell in the Chantry thought it was a good idea to build a Circle in this creepy ass place
I get building a city there because of the mad money that must come in through the port, but yeah, Just build the fricking Circle a bit farther away, feels like any mage worth their salt would have immediately noticed how fricked up the veil is in that city.
maybe the Divine is not bright after all
No, because his little stunt did nothing. It wasn't the reason the war started. Cole's murders was what kickstartered the war. You people would know that if you've played the third game
>Cole's murders
isnt he some literal who apostate killed by some literal who Templar?
NTA, but after that Cole gets possessed by, well, himself and goes on a rampage to kill several high grade Templar leader roles on a b***h-fit over the whole thing.
huh, didn't know that
Say what you will about bull but i always take him with me because he makes solas seethe. Also his betrayal in the trespasser is kino
Considering he has dialogues about jerking off over Cassandra's sweaty armor, I would have figured people would have memed him more.
Maybe it's the "Gaider put me in the game just so his gaylord self insert can get fricked if you don't pick him" syndrome, or the fact he wants to get fricked by dragons.
Wait, really? I never took Bull along because I didn't trust him, I didn't know that was a thing he says. Gaider really is a horny little weirdo.
And yet, he thinks that romancing dwarf girls is icky.
>Talks about Cassandra's sweaty armor
>Talks about giving Solas a buttfricking to calm him down
>Talks about Vivienne needing more wiener in her life to get off her high horse and being willing to provide it
>Talks about Varric being perfect height for blowjob duty
>Gets horny when you fight a dragon, progressively more if you bring them to several dragon fights
>Suggests Blackwall they should polish each other's swords
>Graphically describes how he fricks the waitress and cook in your tavern
And then of course, he gets into the whole "romance" with Dorian and having them together in the party basically becomes a constant dialogue about how Dorian is tsundere over him and just keeps going back to him for more wiener every night.
Oh the fun fact is that apparently all of the above dialogues with the exception of Dorian's happen if you are in a romance with him anyway.
So throw in some good old fashioned cuckoldry bait into the mix.
Need dorf gf
Gaider says no because you are an icky pedophile if you like that stuff.
Now watch his self-insert get graphic BDSM sex with a STD-ridden degenerate.
>no female dorf romance because it's apparently pedoshit
>lets you play a female dorf and get fricked by full grown dudes
What the frick did he mean by this?
Gaider's statements are the equivalent of a Bethesda project. Barely thought-out and made to misdirect you while they buy time.
Only a sith deals in absolutes
no
Mages are literally responsible for every horrible thing that has ever happened in Thedas+
I've recently finished Origins and 2, 2 kinda fricking sucked because of the gameplay and recycled locations. i'm about to get into Inquisition, how bad is it?
well Inquisition did fix the recycled map problem but now its just a MMO, story is meh too when compared to 2 and especially when compared to Origins
not as bad as what this board claims but not as good as what journos said
It's a shitty game, but i kinda take guilty pleasure from playing a *teleports behind u* dickass rogue, and then hate fricking merrill into becoming a slightly less moronic wood elf.
rogue is really fun with the over the top animation, mages too.
>hate fricking merrill into becoming a slightly less moronic wood elf.
I think every romance companion benefit from a rivalry romance instead of friendly one
>no compromising with Meredith because she became a paranoid tard
>no compromising with Orsino because he's a tard generally
He was right
>lets have an interesting conflict between different societal groups and their worldview, the drive to freedom versus the security concerns of the populace and caretakers abusing their mandate, the organized faith and different nation states getting involved in between.
>just kidding, lets forget all that to fight evil monster guy who wants to conquer the world with his lol corruption crystal army
Words cannot describe how lame the plot of Inquisition was.
To be fair that was already the case in Dragon Age 2 when the DLC explained it was not really their fault but Corypheus memes and thin veil nonsense making everyone literally moronic (but conveniently not you or your party members, as is usually the case in DA)
So it's not like it was a shock.
fair but doesn't make it any less lame, Trespasser is good tho
>Resolve major plots and/or loose ends in shitty books that nobody reads so you don't know how things end
>Introduce new plots in shitty dlcs that nobody buys so when you play the sequel you don't understand why things are happening
That's Bioware for ya
Dragon Age mages are just a rip off of WH40k psykers.
what? how?
Every mage should be put to the sword. In the world of Dragon Age you know this to be true.
No, he was a hypocrite homosexual that kept bullying the best girl only to prove her 100% vindicated.
Knight Commander Meredith was best girl?
Merill was. Anders didn't do shit to Meredith.
Merrill is super dumb but at least shes cute
>no blood mage welshfu
Compromise is stupid anyway. One side winds up losing and the other side winds up unhappy. If one side is going to lose either way, you might as well at least let one side win.
Cassandra Pentaghast
My arch nemesis
will adopt Merrill
Nah. He was a dumbass and I stabbed him.
Right or not, I still killed him
Based and same. I killed him because he was a gay. Same with the gay elf in origins. The worst part of inquisition was that you couldn't kill all the homosexual characters.
Dragon Age 2 was good, albeit rushed, and I am tired of pretending it's not.
Best story and companions in the series.
eh idk im more inclined to agree with this guy
I like it, a lot but it has several major flaws that's holding it back
DAO had mediocre gameplay that was held up by the story and characters.
DA2 had so many problems relating to gameplay and the recycling of locations that the story can't hold it up on it's own.
Man I decided to play an elf in Inquisition and only now did I really notice the fricking femboyisation of elves throughout the series, like holy shit this motherfricker has no shoulders, literally looks like a stick.
Because they were never gigachad versions of humans but with pointy ears.
That's what classic elves used to be. Otherworldly, slender, gracious and elegant.
Assuming you sided with the mages, what would be the most interesting outcome for the world, that reeks of pure potencial and interesting storylines, without taking away the feeling of victory for the player? So neither a full "everyone accepts them and nothing bad ever happens", nor a "everyone is hyper aggro and everything goes bad all the time."
It's really simple, there really is no compromise between power gaps that are too big. Mages are beyond powerful. Magic is not equal in it's distribution.
If you're a simple moron, you are cattle.
If you're a mage, you're the next step in human evolution. You can apply the same logic to the class divide of our world and no amount of restrictions or rules imposed on the rich they still decide our lives entirely. We cannot defeat or destroy such a nameless force either, trying to is like trying to kill off greed or ambition. The only way is to physically catch each person and genetically remove it, which is not only realistic logistically but even if somehow accomplished it will still find a way to manifest in our behavior, culture and lives as a necessity due to the hardships of the world, thus we also have to remove the hardships of the world as well, which all in all is simply impossible.
As a regular peasant, there's nothing you can do. As a templar, you can only fight or hope for a temporary truce. This struggle will never know an end because that is human nature. The sane can be applied to the neanderthal and the homosexual sapiens, one had the ability to marathon for longer periods if time and the other could only sprint shirt distances, in essence you could say that it's very similar to having magic powers. They struggled, fought each other constantly. Guess who died off in the end? Those with power linger, those without die off.
>If you're a mage, you're the next step in human evolution.
So are Grey Wardens or Templars technically, this is where the entire DA "lore" comes crashing down, because surprisingly enough the mages are always the big bad guys of the story, never the lyrium addicted mutants or the larping schizos who are magically immune to giga AIDS, mind controls etc just because they are.
You can make a mage Tranquil but you can't do the same with a Templar or a Grey Warden, yet when either of these frick up it's always the mages' fault somehow, never their own.
DAO?
Mages bad because blood magic and abominations, templars...something something bad but they did bad things because mages are worse so templars=good.
Loghain? I don't know who you're talking about, now let's go kill some Darkspawns homie
DA2?
Mages bad because blood magic and abomination, also Kirkwall is especially fricked up so mages go batshit even harder for some reason, neverming the red lyrium addicts, those are unfortunate victims of circumstances, also Corypheus so mages bad X2.
DA:I?
Mages bad even though no blood magic or abominations, but Templars AND Grey Wardens also bad...except there's Corypheus again manipulating all of them so Mages still bad and Solas is also a mage AND an elf so Mages bad bad bad, if you choose to play as a mage everyone will still remind you daily that mages bad, oh yeah and Qunari bad too.
Technically Grey Warden method of gain immunity is basically blood magic mix with the Taint. Like they literally drink Darkspawn Blood. Grey Warden also keep their initiate ritual a secret and beside immune to AIDS, they don't have any special power that could threaten anyone. Not to mention they basically sit out of most political conflicts so no one care about them until the Blight happen.
>they don't have any special power that could threaten anyone.
Did you forget that drinking Darkspawn blood makes them not just tainted but hear the voices of the old gods, which is why most Grey Wardens ends up being schizos, on top of being controlled by Corypheus not once but twice in the series? They're not the chantry's glowies who gain those superpowers the legit way.
Not like you need any special power to be a danger to people anyways, that's another thing the writers use for their mages bad business, but again, if it's a grey warden, a seeker or a templar they're just poor victims, it's the lyrium/red lyrium/darkspawn blood's fault after all, not the people...unless it's a mage of course.
I don't see that mages are bad but rather with great power need great responsibility. If a Grey Warden go bad, he basically just a guy with a sword, same with Templar. If a mage go bad, the consequence is far greater. Most mages basically don't have what it take to control their power and is far more easy to be influence by demons.
>If a Grey Warden go bad, he basically just a guy with a sword
And the taint, and the fact that Grey Wardens are much more capable than any normal militia outside of Seekers and Templars.
>same with Templar
Templars are superhuman fighters that can also turn into literal monsters through red lyrium.
Nevermind how they are a literal time bomb waiting to explode because 99% of them are lyrium addicts who eventually go either completely fricking crazy or, "luckily", turn into potatoes.
But noooooo, mages are the dangerous guys, not the nutjobs who willingly taint themselves with Darkspawn blood, not the lyrium junkies who can also turn into another flavour of Darkspawn if they eat too much Red Lyrium, not the chantry's glowies, it's the mages who are bad and dangerous.
I can't take this premise seriously, I'm actually curious to see how they will keep writing this shit in the next game where Solas tears the veil down since the veil is the actual cause of mages going batshit anyway, really wanna see how they keep pushing the mages bad narrative with that, or if they make a 180°
>the fact that Grey Wardens are much more capable than any normal militia
They are not. They are only good against Darkspawn because they are the only one who can kill the Archdemon and can unite everyone under a common cause.
>Templars are superhuman fighters that can also turn into literal monsters through red lyrium.
No, against guys with swords they basically just normal dudes with swords, consuming Lyrium just give them the ability to deal damage to demons and silent mages. Against non-mage they just normal dudes. And the red lyrium is a later discovery, no one even know it exist before DA2.
>veil is the actual cause of mages going batshit anyway
No? The Veil just a barrier to prevent the Fade and the real world from interact with each other. Mages go batshit because of demons which have nothing to do with the Veil but just a part of the meta verse in Thedas.
Grey Wardens aren't numerous. And the templars aren't nearly as strong as mages, their strength lies in numbers which clearly dwindle with each game. Mages even in low numbers are just too strong and in time it won't be something anyone can handle.
If magic is so powerful on it's own, why the frick would any mage ever turn to Blood Magic? The regular kind should be enough. And with Magic itself being such a tremendous advantage, Blood Mages should have enough power to dominate and rule the whole world like kings...
Oh wait that's exactly what the Tevinter Imperium was. Until it shat the bed and collapsed, that it.
>why the frick would any mage ever turn to Blood Magic?
Fear. Ethics. Morality. Tons of reasons actually, it's not that Magic is not enough it's that Mages are brought up and taught in a certain way. Take the tower mages for example, they are under constant strict supervision of the templars and are guided into a relatively moral and ethical lifestyle, albeit limited in freedom but very directed when it comes to their magic use.Most people in general wouldn't exactly jump at the opportunity to start using blood magic just because it exists. It takes a specific situation for a mage to start using it and to even want to "dominate and rule the whole world like kings", very few actually want that, most just want peace and to be left alone.
Because in about 95% of cases normal mages use blood magic in time of desperation. Crazy as it sounds, some regular students in shitty hogwards have some constraints when it comes to cut their own wrists like a psychopath. Also, the regular guy isnt that wild to go down the evil wizard route to live the life of a fantasy terrorist. Thats not what average people do.
nice trips but yes, Anders is/was correct there is no compromise
The Chantry and its consequences have been a disaster for the magic users.
I have been cranking up mage power since Origins so that when the story ends I get to rule everyone in restored Tevinter.
Seriously, who the hell sides with normies instead of the mage master race?