Johto shitmon syndrome.
Don't feel too bad most of them got an evolution in a later game that made them less awful. Yanmega may not have a niche, but at least it isn't useless.
> Johto shitmon syndrome.
Ah so “intentional sabotage to make GenWun look better” syndrome
What’s funny is that had Yanmega existed Yanma’s stats would make sense and it would be worth it’s rarity, but I guess they though adding a bunch baby Pokémon were more important.
I like the babby mons. I wish they did something better with them like make their egg moves actually really good and exclusive or some other gameplay thing.
If Baby pokemon came out in gen 10, they would absolutely have a tag team gimmick or something attached to them >2v1 with a baby pokemon as support for 3 turns when you babbymaxx
> Johto shitmon syndrome.
Ah so “intentional sabotage to make GenWun look better” syndrome
What’s funny is that had Yanmega existed Yanma’s stats would make sense and it would be worth it’s rarity, but I guess they though adding a bunch baby Pokémon were more important.
hoenn is even worse but then didnt even get evos. gen 2 gets more privilege than everything except gen 1, stop crying
Hoenn started the trend of 90% of mons being that aren't pseduos, starters, legends being straight garbage dex filler. Whenever a Toxapex tier mon slips through this design philosophy, I always wonder if it was good on accident or if someone on the dev team snuck it in or something.
>gen 2 >most privileged
Gen2 Pokémon were refugees in own region. Gen3 Pokémon at were at least allowed to be Hoeen Pokémon. Gen 4 did give Gen2 Pokémon did bunch of evos for the shitmons but Gen3 pokemon also got some. Gen5-8 was pretty much a Johto drought while Hoeen at least got a bunch of apology Megas in Gen 6 (though this ended up backfiring in Gen8). Johto only started getting KANTOOOO levels of privelege from PLA onward onward.
>"why is the cute dragonfly not top tier??"
Why is the one of the most effective insect predators compete an utter shitmon?
Who has the saddest BST?
Luvsdisc
Spinda doesn't have a single good stat
Spinda at least has a reason for its stats ans even had contrary super power as Luvdisv is just garbage
There are shitmons even for story mode.
I recently replayed Pokemon Y and tried to beat it with Farfetch'd in my team.
During the first half of the game it was pretty fast and powerful, but in the second half its attack failed to catch up with the rest of the team and couldn't KO anything.
Justifying Farfetch'd presence in the team was hard because it was always lagging behind, there wasn't a situation where bringing it out would be ideal.
People with terminal Smogon/VGC brain really overuse the term. Actual Shitmon's are guys like Spinda or Ledian that can't hack it in Battle Facilities or even the Campaign. A Pokemon isn't bad just because it can't 1HKO Mega Rayquaza. Like yeah you could theoretically grind your Max IV Farfetched to Lvl100 on Route 1 Ratattas and beat the game, but anyone who plays the game like that is either mentally ill or running a gimmick run twitch channel. Real shitmon are ones who are unable to pull their weight at the level curve.
Battle facilities require actual good, synergetic teams if you're aiming for a high score
9 months ago
Anonymous
There are levels of "good" and "synergetic" though. I've taken some very low tier boys through though the Frontier with the right moves and strategies. But there's no way you will ever make Krikitune work for instance.
>lategame low encounter on only one route
Well then maybe its stats shouldn't be an aneurysm-inducing depressing sack of shit because "sauropods weak lol".
9 months ago
Anonymous
Holy shit, I never realized it was that bad. Genuinely appalling stuff.
9 months ago
Anonymous
That's not that bad. 99 hp and both defenses over 80 makes it an okay stallmon at least.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Not with that typing it isn't. Grass/Flying is not good on defense and burning tera on something that can't make progress isn't a good choice.
The only way you're stalling something is in random battles and that's more because it's 20 levels stronger than anything else.
9 months ago
Anonymous
I was thinking more ingame, but you probably could meme some stuff in the lowest tiers before gen 6-ish.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>he doesn't know about Tropius topping the ladder in series 1
9 months ago
Anonymous
>he doesnt know about magikarp topping nats in 2016
9 months ago
Anonymous
>My mom's meganium
Holy shit
9 months ago
Anonymous
Game Freak making sauropod Pokemon weak because of a shitty trope that shouldld frick itself and die in a hole be like.
I've dropped shitmons from my in-game team for being too shit. Maybe if I was EV training them it wouldn't matter, but I don't think I'd waste time EV training a shitmon unless I was trying to challenge myself.
Johto shitmon syndrome.
Don't feel too bad most of them got an evolution in a later game that made them less awful. Yanmega may not have a niche, but at least it isn't useless.
> Johto shitmon syndrome.
Ah so “intentional sabotage to make GenWun look better” syndrome
What’s funny is that had Yanmega existed Yanma’s stats would make sense and it would be worth it’s rarity, but I guess they though adding a bunch baby Pokémon were more important.
Yanma did have an evo at one point, but it was cut quickly
Many pokemon don't mirror the life cycles of their real life counterparts, and considering how weak Yamna is, its pretty obvious it was intended to evolve further and only didn't due to lack of dex space.
Wishiwashi solo has it the worst with 175 bst. However it's ability turns it into a different pokemon with 620 bst so it's not exactly a fair first choice. Sunkern is next in line with 180 bst. It really can't do anything well with 30s across the board.
Noibat. None of its stats are above 55. It evolves too late to excuse its awful stats. Shedinja, Wishiwashi and Smeargle at least have gimmicks which make them more useful.
Dragon isn't some great typing that will magically make every Pokemon that has it OP. And quite frankly, it's an overrated one that gets dick-sucked in the anime and by the community. Oh look, it resists Electric, Fire, Grass, and Water, OMFG!11 Let's just ignore the fact that Dragon is just a glorified version of Normal shall we?
Noibat having better stats isn't going to be game-breaking.
I'm still fricking mad that Golisopod is stuck with that shit ability. Yeah, I get the theming, but just because you wanted to flesh out Guzma's character, the Pokemon with the coolest design of its generation has to be cursed forever? Bullshit.
That ability is part of the reason why it was used in gen 8 championships and made it to the finals. It's not inherently bad, it's just unique. Without it it would probably be a pretty mediocre mon overall
The Ralts Line getting to hang in the A and S tiers on the in-game lists makes me take anything Smogon says in that regard with a grain of salt >Just trudge through the game with this weak as frick mon until you finally get Gardevoir >Never mind that it is in the slow level up group and you won't have Gardevoir until Past Norman >Grumpig in the same game can be caught only a few levels below where Kirlia would be and will outlevel it easily thanks to fast level group. By the league, if you have a Gardevoir at level 51, the Grumpig would be at 59.
Spoink line is unironically the better in-game mon in RSE.
I actually took part in tiering Ralts in RSE thread on Smogon. I can assure you that it is one of the best Pokemon in-game. Ralts is average for early game but it helps with Brawly. Kirlia is only underwhelming for three levels. At 21 level it gets Calm Mind which helps a lot. At 26 level, Kirlia starts to stomp the game with boosted Psychic (it can even sweep Flannery in Emerald before evolving).
>Never mind that it is in the slow level up group and you won't have Gardevoir until Past Norman
While testing, I had a team of four Pokemon and all of them were on 30 level while facing Norman.
>Grumpig in the same game can be caught only a few levels below where Kirlia would be and will outlevel it easily thanks to fast level group. By the league, if you have a Gardevoir at level 51, the Grumpig would be at 59.
Grumpig also learns Psychic 10 levels later, doesn't get Calm Mind via level up and can't learn Thunderbolt at all. It has no good coverage options and relies on spamming Psybeam up to Winona.
It is understandable why it felt weak. Take a look at the changes made to its learnset. In the remakes, Kirlia gets Calm Mind later and is stuck with 50 BP STABs. You can't even buy Psychic TM for it since Game Corner got removed in ORAS.
slugma waiting until 38 to evolve into a mon with a bst of only 430 (formerly 410) is pretty bad too to be honest
I used Slugma in SoulSilver and it is as awful as you might imagine. It evolved after beating Clair and before League.
Slugma was only good for a short period of time (thanks to learning Flamethrower in Game Corner) and while Magcargo is tolerable, it is also underwhelming.
I fail to see it being better in Hoenn due to massive amount of water types in the lategame.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Huh, interesting. It's been a while since I played, so I guess I just assumed the learnset would be better, because the older learnsets are often so barren.
The Ralts Line getting to hang in the A and S tiers on the in-game lists makes me take anything Smogon says in that regard with a grain of salt >Just trudge through the game with this weak as frick mon until you finally get Gardevoir >Never mind that it is in the slow level up group and you won't have Gardevoir until Past Norman >Grumpig in the same game can be caught only a few levels below where Kirlia would be and will outlevel it easily thanks to fast level group. By the league, if you have a Gardevoir at level 51, the Grumpig would be at 59.
Spoink line is unironically the better in-game mon in RSE.
You guys must be like those kids that never use status moves.
Kirlia destroys the mid game with Calm Mind + Confusion/Psychic + Shock Wave. Only the occasional Magnemite like Wattson can stop it. Ralts is like the Magikarp of RSE (aside the actual Magikarp). Even then Ralts with Confusion can put in some work.
It's Murkrow.
Prankster tailwind is so important that even a frail mixed attacker can be valuable if it has this combo as long as there are no better users.
Most people stopped using Murkrow since Tornadus arrived.
>Most people stopped using Murkrow since Tornadus arrived.
It still gets some use since it does have advantages over Tornadus, like Quash, Haze and immunity to opposing Pranksters so Tornadus and Grimmsnarl can't Taunt it for instance.
Yeah it still has some value but it dropped massively because Tornadus just puts a lot more pressure on the opponent overall.
If Murkrow's attacks and defenses were inverted it would easily be Torn's equal.
And this is not even the worst part, just look what its moveset was in gen II.
Even in gen IV it only learns one special move before evolving to Yanmega and it's Uproar (not a stab one) on level 27.
He's good in Platinum since there are shard Move Tutors that give him both his Stabs at 60-70 BP right when you catch him, and he learns a lot of good SpAtk TM's. It only in D&P (which has no move tutors) and HGSS (whose move tutors are locked to post game for some asinine reason) that he doesn't get his Stab until his level is in the damn 50's.
Gross, what do you even call this?, "we intentionally sabotaged this because frick you" spread?
If this world is just we call it a "first stage evolution"
We intentionally trained him wrong, as a joke
Johto shitmon syndrome.
Don't feel too bad most of them got an evolution in a later game that made them less awful. Yanmega may not have a niche, but at least it isn't useless.
> Johto shitmon syndrome.
Ah so “intentional sabotage to make GenWun look better” syndrome
What’s funny is that had Yanmega existed Yanma’s stats would make sense and it would be worth it’s rarity, but I guess they though adding a bunch baby Pokémon were more important.
I like the babby mons. I wish they did something better with them like make their egg moves actually really good and exclusive or some other gameplay thing.
If Baby pokemon came out in gen 10, they would absolutely have a tag team gimmick or something attached to them
>2v1 with a baby pokemon as support for 3 turns when you babbymaxx
a baby pokemon came out in gen 8
Baby pokemon came out in gen 2
He said “a baby Pokémon” you illiterate Black person
no u
>Dump Truck Press
I want to Dump Truck Press Eevee
hoenn is even worse but then didnt even get evos. gen 2 gets more privilege than everything except gen 1, stop crying
>hoenn
Today I will remind them
Left is definitely Ledian, whose the right?
Dustox
>Tfw you realize they made everything a slow frail mixed attacker in Hoenn as a lazy way to compensate for the lack of physical/special split
Hoenn started the trend of 90% of mons being that aren't pseduos, starters, legends being straight garbage dex filler. Whenever a Toxapex tier mon slips through this design philosophy, I always wonder if it was good on accident or if someone on the dev team snuck it in or something.
they make ugly pokemon viable intentionally to up their merch sales
>gen 2
>most privileged
Gen2 Pokémon were refugees in own region. Gen3 Pokémon at were at least allowed to be Hoeen Pokémon. Gen 4 did give Gen2 Pokémon did bunch of evos for the shitmons but Gen3 pokemon also got some. Gen5-8 was pretty much a Johto drought while Hoeen at least got a bunch of apology Megas in Gen 6 (though this ended up backfiring in Gen8). Johto only started getting KANTOOOO levels of privelege from PLA onward onward.
Why is the one of the most effective insect predators compete an utter shitmon?
Luvsdisc
Spinda at least has a reason for its stats ans even had contrary super power as Luvdisv is just garbage
Luvdisc: 1 good stat
Spinda: 0 good stats
Also one time I received a Luvdisc named Iluvdics in wonder trade
No such thing as shitmons when the game is literally "press a to way" levels of easy. Now if we mentioned average hoenns BST...
There are shitmons even for story mode.
I recently replayed Pokemon Y and tried to beat it with Farfetch'd in my team.
During the first half of the game it was pretty fast and powerful, but in the second half its attack failed to catch up with the rest of the team and couldn't KO anything.
Justifying Farfetch'd presence in the team was hard because it was always lagging behind, there wasn't a situation where bringing it out would be ideal.
People with terminal Smogon/VGC brain really overuse the term. Actual Shitmon's are guys like Spinda or Ledian that can't hack it in Battle Facilities or even the Campaign. A Pokemon isn't bad just because it can't 1HKO Mega Rayquaza. Like yeah you could theoretically grind your Max IV Farfetched to Lvl100 on Route 1 Ratattas and beat the game, but anyone who plays the game like that is either mentally ill or running a gimmick run twitch channel. Real shitmon are ones who are unable to pull their weight at the level curve.
Battle facilities require actual good, synergetic teams if you're aiming for a high score
There are levels of "good" and "synergetic" though. I've taken some very low tier boys through though the Frontier with the right moves and strategies. But there's no way you will ever make Krikitune work for instance.
>either mentally ill or running a gimmick run twitch channel
What's the difference?
Depends on how much the streamer gets paid to do it
Try telling that to everyone out there who's pissed over Tropius.
tropius is a lategame low encounter on only one route and also a dinosaur
>lategame low encounter on only one route
Well then maybe its stats shouldn't be an aneurysm-inducing depressing sack of shit because "sauropods weak lol".
Holy shit, I never realized it was that bad. Genuinely appalling stuff.
That's not that bad. 99 hp and both defenses over 80 makes it an okay stallmon at least.
Not with that typing it isn't. Grass/Flying is not good on defense and burning tera on something that can't make progress isn't a good choice.
The only way you're stalling something is in random battles and that's more because it's 20 levels stronger than anything else.
I was thinking more ingame, but you probably could meme some stuff in the lowest tiers before gen 6-ish.
>he doesn't know about Tropius topping the ladder in series 1
>he doesnt know about magikarp topping nats in 2016
>My mom's meganium
Holy shit
Game Freak making sauropod Pokemon weak because of a shitty trope that shouldld frick itself and die in a hole be like.
I've dropped shitmons from my in-game team for being too shit. Maybe if I was EV training them it wouldn't matter, but I don't think I'd waste time EV training a shitmon unless I was trying to challenge myself.
Not every mon has to be some UU+ viable mon. It also actually has a pretty decent spread for a route 1 shitmon.
This isn't for a route 1 shitmon though. Those are stats for a mid-game rare encountermon believe it or not
Fast, Frail, Mixed Attacker
>set up stealth rock and die
>you may only set up stealth rock if you have a sash because this thing will not move 1st
How embarassing
I'm a fake fan who can't tell pokemon apart by bst. What is that sack of shit?
it's yanma
thankfully yanmega fixed it, but it's baffling that it was made that shit in the first place
only in johto
(and hoenn)
weren't nearly all the single-stage pokemon in johto total shitmons?
heracross, miltank, misdreavus, skarmory, mantine, smeargle, and gligar were all really good back in the day
Yanma did have an evo at one point, but it was cut quickly
So since the pokémon was conceived they planned this adult dragonfly to evolve further? Not for it to have a pre-evo that was not in the adult stage?
Many pokemon don't mirror the life cycles of their real life counterparts, and considering how weak Yamna is, its pretty obvious it was intended to evolve further and only didn't due to lack of dex space.
Are 1% encounter shitmons soul or not? I can't decide
YANMA FRICK YEAH
it's fine for gen 2
thry gave yanma decent stab and coverage right?
Imagine being so bad you're immensely better as your uncured corrupted self than otherwise
Who has the saddest BST?
Spinda doesn't have a single good stat
Considering all the other answers are NFEs, I'd say it's this.
And they gutted it of it's only useful gimmick, contrary superpower too
Nerfing Pokemon that don't need a nerf is what Game Freak does best.
Wishiwashi solo has it the worst with 175 bst. However it's ability turns it into a different pokemon with 620 bst so it's not exactly a fair first choice. Sunkern is next in line with 180 bst. It really can't do anything well with 30s across the board.
Noibat. None of its stats are above 55. It evolves too late to excuse its awful stats. Shedinja, Wishiwashi and Smeargle at least have gimmicks which make them more useful.
Dragon isn't some great typing that will magically make every Pokemon that has it OP. And quite frankly, it's an overrated one that gets dick-sucked in the anime and by the community. Oh look, it resists Electric, Fire, Grass, and Water, OMFG!11 Let's just ignore the fact that Dragon is just a glorified version of Normal shall we?
Noibat having better stats isn't going to be game-breaking.
It's a neat second type because dragon isn't a real weakness and most stuff just plain doesn't have ice or fairy coverage.
Also shedinja's inclusion shouldn't really count for obvious reasons
slugma waiting until 38 to evolve into a mon with a bst of only 430 (formerly 410) is pretty bad too to be honest
Kirlia doesn't get enough hate for having a lower BST than fricking Unown
Trying to get a Gardevoir is geniunely pain and suffering
They probably wanted to avoid a Kadabra/Haunter situation with Kirlia, but that is stupid
To be fair, Kirlia at least gets good moves before evolving (Calm Mind, Psybeam, Psychic etc.) so training it is bearable.
Wimpod on the other hand...
I'm still fricking mad that Golisopod is stuck with that shit ability. Yeah, I get the theming, but just because you wanted to flesh out Guzma's character, the Pokemon with the coolest design of its generation has to be cursed forever? Bullshit.
That ability is part of the reason why it was used in gen 8 championships and made it to the finals. It's not inherently bad, it's just unique. Without it it would probably be a pretty mediocre mon overall
It's fine as an option, but it's shit to only give it that one ability. Personally, I'd like to see it get Tough Claws, Inner Focus, or Defiant.
skill issue
i had no problems using Kirlia in my gen 3 playthroughs
Hmm... Damn weak Kirlia..!!! Having a lower BST than Unown!! Rape correction is needed...
The Ralts Line getting to hang in the A and S tiers on the in-game lists makes me take anything Smogon says in that regard with a grain of salt
>Just trudge through the game with this weak as frick mon until you finally get Gardevoir
>Never mind that it is in the slow level up group and you won't have Gardevoir until Past Norman
>Grumpig in the same game can be caught only a few levels below where Kirlia would be and will outlevel it easily thanks to fast level group. By the league, if you have a Gardevoir at level 51, the Grumpig would be at 59.
Spoink line is unironically the better in-game mon in RSE.
Grumpig is ugly doe
I actually took part in tiering Ralts in RSE thread on Smogon. I can assure you that it is one of the best Pokemon in-game. Ralts is average for early game but it helps with Brawly. Kirlia is only underwhelming for three levels. At 21 level it gets Calm Mind which helps a lot. At 26 level, Kirlia starts to stomp the game with boosted Psychic (it can even sweep Flannery in Emerald before evolving).
>Never mind that it is in the slow level up group and you won't have Gardevoir until Past Norman
While testing, I had a team of four Pokemon and all of them were on 30 level while facing Norman.
>Grumpig in the same game can be caught only a few levels below where Kirlia would be and will outlevel it easily thanks to fast level group. By the league, if you have a Gardevoir at level 51, the Grumpig would be at 59.
Grumpig also learns Psychic 10 levels later, doesn't get Calm Mind via level up and can't learn Thunderbolt at all. It has no good coverage options and relies on spamming Psybeam up to Winona.
In ORAS I found Kirlia pretty weak, even with Calm Mind. As it got closer to evolving it was pretty much dead weight.
It is understandable why it felt weak. Take a look at the changes made to its learnset. In the remakes, Kirlia gets Calm Mind later and is stuck with 50 BP STABs. You can't even buy Psychic TM for it since Game Corner got removed in ORAS.
I used Slugma in SoulSilver and it is as awful as you might imagine. It evolved after beating Clair and before League.
Slugma was only good for a short period of time (thanks to learning Flamethrower in Game Corner) and while Magcargo is tolerable, it is also underwhelming.
I fail to see it being better in Hoenn due to massive amount of water types in the lategame.
Huh, interesting. It's been a while since I played, so I guess I just assumed the learnset would be better, because the older learnsets are often so barren.
>Wasting time on calm mind when it has horrendous defense and can get OHKO so easily
You guys must be like those kids that never use status moves.
Kirlia destroys the mid game with Calm Mind + Confusion/Psychic + Shock Wave. Only the occasional Magnemite like Wattson can stop it. Ralts is like the Magikarp of RSE (aside the actual Magikarp). Even then Ralts with Confusion can put in some work.
Why?
>"why is the cute dragonfly not top tier??"
He could be 450 BST
Why is the cute mushroom always top tier?
>Be a staple on gen 9 meta in your path
what is this?
It's Murkrow.
Prankster tailwind is so important that even a frail mixed attacker can be valuable if it has this combo as long as there are no better users.
Most people stopped using Murkrow since Tornadus arrived.
>Most people stopped using Murkrow since Tornadus arrived.
It still gets some use since it does have advantages over Tornadus, like Quash, Haze and immunity to opposing Pranksters so Tornadus and Grimmsnarl can't Taunt it for instance.
Yeah it still has some value but it dropped massively because Tornadus just puts a lot more pressure on the opponent overall.
If Murkrow's attacks and defenses were inverted it would easily be Torn's equal.
Murkrow. Pound for pound, it's probably the best NFE in any competitive meta right now.
Misdreavus got out shined by Flutter
what indeed
shit base stats are funny and all but this is just sad
And this is not even the worst part, just look what its moveset was in gen II.
Even in gen IV it only learns one special move before evolving to Yanmega and it's Uproar (not a stab one) on level 27.
yanmega itself also has a miserable learnset in gen 4
Yanmega at least has Tinted Lens to compensate.
He's good in Platinum since there are shard Move Tutors that give him both his Stabs at 60-70 BP right when you catch him, and he learns a lot of good SpAtk TM's. It only in D&P (which has no move tutors) and HGSS (whose move tutors are locked to post game for some asinine reason) that he doesn't get his Stab until his level is in the damn 50's.