If armor class represents the defensive skill of a character and not literally just their armor, shouldn't weapons affect armor class? It is way easier to parry and block attacks with a halberd than one tiny little knife.
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>If armor class represents the defensive skill of a character and not literally just their armor
This rarely gets represented properly in games, much less at all, so Armor is just armor unless otherwise specified.
In CRPGs it is.
Yes, if you are a thief in bg2
why did all of the /tg/ autism threads move over here?
>and this is a bad thing how?
I for one welcome our giga-autist overlords.
It's idiots and flunkies that got bullied off /tg/
/tg/ and /vrpg/ are brothers boards
>brothers
more like red-headed step-child
I like that idea.
I always thought armor should be more of a damage reduction thing, while separate parry/evade should function the way AC traditionally functions.
It should do both.Armor should allow the wearer to avoid damage if it doesn’t penetrate the armor or causes enough blunt trauma.But it should also reduce damage since the armor would have still absorbed some of the energy even if it was pierced.
The point of AC was that it massively simplified the early wargaming style tabletop rules for D&D by lumping all defensive statistics under one value.
For computer games its very easy to have more complex systems and let the game engine run the math, but of course devs think D&D is some kind of universal golden standard so they copy shit from it directly for no reason.
fallout?
armor class is shit design anyways
>It is way easier to parry and block attacks with a halberd than one tiny little knife.
Not necessarily. A halberd would give more passive defence due to being bigger but would also be much slower and more unwieldy.
Having some kind of defensive bonus for dual wielding would be nice though.
Halberds aren't really so slow and unwieldly that they'd be troublesome to use. Their advantage heavily outweighs that problem.
The physical properties of the weapon's movement apply to both sides' interaction with it. Ergo, if a knife is light and easy to move around, it's also very easy for other people's weapons to move it out of the way. If a weapon is heavy and takes some applied force to put it into motion, then it takes that much more force to alter the inertia of its strike with a parry. Parrying a pole weapon blow is simply not an easy task, and if you can't parry it then you have to void it, meaning moving your entire body, which is net heavier than the two-handed weapon, meaning you are now the slow one. This is why one-handed weapons are kind of shit in general, because two hands lets you apply leverage to your strike which allows a qualitatively higher combination of agility+inertia than a one-handed weapon.
One handed weapons let you have a shield which is a gigantic advantage.
If you really want to get finnicky, the weapon and armour you use should provide different bonuses based on where you use them? Polearm in tight spaces? Penalty. Dagger in a crowd of people? Bonus. Full plate while covered with thick mud? Penalty. No weapon or armour should suit all environments. Specialization is death.
A spear or spear-adjacent polearm is actually a great weapon in a hallway. It's what makes them natural formation fighter weapons.
A hallway packed with goblins? Nope.
A group frontal charge is better to deal with than an encirclement.
Historical knowledge is often mistakenly applied to fantasy combat.
Are not Persians and goblins basically the same thing?
Depends on if you fight them in their dungeons, where they have full use of secret doors to ambush you or drop you into watery pits. Adventuring is dirty and varied work and you need a slew of tools available.
You're no longer describing a hallway once you assert that the opponent has more than one direction to attack from (aka an encirclement). What should have been pointed out is that although long range weapons are great in corridors, they're bad around corners.
You assumed the goblins were coming from one direction in the hallway. That's why you are dead.
No, I assumed that words had meanings and that I wasn't talking to a goalpost-moving pedant.
Yes, the word packed has meaning.
Good heavens a packed combat environment with polearms? Anything but that. Find a dictionary where "packed" specifically means "encirclement".
>pic
>packed
Ah, yes, a packed hallway means half-full of goblins orderly charging your phalanx, of course. I even juxtaposed it with the crowd and dagger. Sorry for moving the goalposts you created in your mind, anon.
You made an overly vague generalization "polearm in tight spaces". I pointed out that your generalization was false in certain contexts. You got mad and moved the goalpost claiming that wasn't what you meant. Conclusion: We can both agree that polearms aren't always bad in "tight spaces" and that your original statement was inaccurate. Good talk.
My point was that no weapon suits every environment or should automatically provide a bonus or penalty, that's it's about context. I'm absolutely correct and you were the pedant who wanted to nitpick about it. Take the L.
Your overarching point is fine, the particular example you gave wasn't. Simple as. The fact that you got disingenuous as soon as this was pointed out despite it being undeniably true is clearly butthurt.
You were adjusting the scenario, so I thought I could as well. Isn't that the game? Tight spaces became hallways at your words, the hallway became full of goblins at mine. Relax, anon, this is a mental game for fun with some ribbing. No one is mad.
Hallways are a type of tight space. Goblins are not a type of hallway.
Goblins filling a hallway are a type of tight space. Can you just give up, you aren't good at this? Very boring.
I never said there weren't tight spaces where polearms were bad. I said there were tight spaces where polearms are good.
Yes, you were being pedantic.
Refuting your claim isn't pedantic.
It wasn't a claim, it was a point about RPGs. Wanna talk about them?
We're talking about how polearms being automatically bad in tight spaces is a midwit take right now though?
>You got mad
Oh, nevermind, you conceded here.
>Polearm in tight spaces?
>Penalty
What kind of penalty? Devs should actually make it realistic that if one tries to wield polearm in a tight space it should just hit the walls and ceiling instead of performing the action by bending space and then introducing some kind of "penalty" in damage dealt.
RPGs are abstractions, not simulations.
That has nothing to do with realistic weapon physics
Yes, it does. RPG rulesets shouldn't try to model the hallway and the range of the weapon and hitboxes and momentum. If they do, you aren't playing an RPG anymore, but a simulation.
>RPG rulesets
What the frick is that shit? I though we had moved away from moronic DnD mentality already? Shitty dnd rpg is dead, action rpg is the future, real time hack and slash combat and rpg like increase in stats is the future
You should get the board changed to /varpg/.
What does VA stand for?
Veterans Affairs.
All games are abstractions. The abstraction is the simulation.
It's different with RPGs because the player needs to be able to grasp and calculate the abstraction. You can't offload everything to the computer and have it model reality without changing the genre. This is why Exanima is not an RPG.
Dark Souls already does this moron, that's why it's an RPG, the Chuds who say otherwise should be hung from lampposts.
I think the Lucerne is the only polearm in that game which doesn't have a poke in its moveset, if anything the only class it really hampers is regular straight swords that don't also have a poke which is like the opposite of what that guy wanted.
To be honest, polearms seem to have the advantage of being able to stab "over the shoulder" of your buddy in front instead of being on the front line yourself when in the tunnels. Also why is stabbing/poking not somehow a valid tactic for (stab capable) polearms in tight spaces? If anything slashing/cutting weapons like axes and sabres should have penalties in tight corridors. Files/stilettos should also be valid. Polearms in tunnels seems to be some kind of maymay.
The souls mechanic is too basic, it barely does what it's supposed to do, I have seen massive bosses wield huge weapons near wall with no collision.
This is not even getting into creatures who don't bleed or have obvious weak spots or who can fly or phase through walls or turn gaseous. A specialized fighter in a fantasy setting is dead meat.
I think we have here a perfect example of the great weakness of the speargay: a tendency towards linear, A to B, thinking. Improvisation and adaption are the hallmark of the true warrior, not a overreliance on specific tools.
>let’s talk about combat in a hallway
>heh, you’ve fallen into my trap. Why is your thinking so linear in nature?
They do in URW.
Put enough goblins in an enclosed space (a self-fulfilling situation, as goblins can also enclose space) and bodily movement becomes impossible. This is why only bombs are viable weapons.
Enough goblins and even a bomb isn't viable. This is why gas chambers are great.
A bomb is a poor choice for close quarters combat.
How many goblins could your stuff into a 10m x 10m x 50 m room before they suffocate from lack of air?
>How many goblins could your stuff into a 10m x 10m x 50 m room before they suffocate from lack of air?
Great question, anon. 10m x 10m x 50m = 5,000 m^3 of air. Assuming normal temperature and pressure of 293.2 K and 101,325 Pa, that gives us a density of 1.204 kg/m^3, or around 6,021 kg of air. Air is about 23.15% oxygen by mass, so around 1,394 kg of gaseous oxygen.
I'm going to assume this is a 50m long and 10m wide and 10m tall hallway, given the context. A goblin is a small humanoid, let's assume they take up a standard grid square of 5' x 5', if we really pack 'em in let's round up to a linear density of 7 gobbos per 10 meters width. So, 7*5 = 35 gobbos crammed into this hallway. Gobbos weigh 40-45 lbf, so a mass of 40-45 lbm, let's split the difference and assume the idealized goblin has a mass of 42.5 lbm. The mean human male from the PHB has a mass of 175 lbm, so the average goblin is just under a quarter the mass, let's round and assume a goblin uses exactly a quarter of the oxygen as a man. Roughly 0.25 m^3 of air required per goblin per hour, that gives us 8.75 m^3/hour consumption of air, so those 5,000 m^3 will last about 571 hours, or a bit less than 24 days. Longer than I expected! However, keep in mind that would be consuming every last mole of oxygen in the hallway. Well before that point was reached, the goblins would likely start suffocating and fall unconscious due to low oxygen and high CO2 buildup in the air.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
>passive damage auras
>non-somatic spellcasting
>wraithform
RIP body-immobilizing goblinmass
A very overpowered ability that should only be available for max 1-2 seconds to avoid critical hits, and if there still another object (enemy weapon, the enemy, or just some physical item) occupying the same space when character switches back to physical form then that should result in instant death.
I remember there was a boxed set adventure for AD&D 2e that had a mountain full of kobolds that would swarm the party and grapple them. The idea was to turn weak enemies into a threat through sheer numbers.
Yeah, but its a game, things have got to be simple.
That said, I think different weapons should hit different armors with different effectiveness.
Dagger vs plate? Almost Impossible unless prone.
Mace vs plate? Easy
And so on
Its all and abstraction anyways, ir you make It too complex, It get boring and annoying as well.
>That said, I think different weapons should hit different armors with different effectiveness.
KCD attemps this by having armors with different stats for slashing, piercing and crushing damage.
Dodge/block/armor should be different stats. First you dodge, then if block, then if you fail both, you get hit, and it's weapon vs armor of the part of body where it's hit. If it's head and it's have no proper-protection it's a auto-crit, if it's crit - insta-kill.
LOTRO has armour provide mitigation % to damage, and also block/parry/evade chances to avoid damage completely from skills and equipment. Swords have an inherent parry bonus, making them more defensive than other hand weapons. Some classes get higher mitigation caps, others get higher b/p/e caps or flat bonuses outside the caps. I liked the system for an mmo where getting really autistic with your customisable gear is appropriate.
Some half naked guy wearing bathrobes having higher AC than someone in full plate will always be moronic.
>Some half naked guy wearing bathrobes having higher AC than someone in full plate will always be moronic.
Yes.
Rule of cool >>>>>>> common sense.
>Rule of cool >>>>>>> common sense.
Heavy armor is cool, someone taking nineteen 1-2 level class dips to stack multiple stats to AC is not cool, it’s cheesy and moronic. He’s specifically complaining about the mechanics not supporting the rule of cool.
Armour reduces damage taken. Cry