from where did they copy the trolls? its very cool & original race
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if blizzard copied gamesworkshop
from where did they copy the trolls? its very cool & original race
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Trolls are green, have tusks and regenerate, so they're clearly adapted from DnD trolls.
Those are pretty much universal properties of trolls for folklore.so you cant say they adapted from dnd trolls. and you will genuinely not find a single setting that have similar trolls to warcraft trolls other than those three properties & being primitive
Three Hearts and Three Lions is not folklore.
>Those are pretty much universal properties of trolls for folklore.
Anon, 'Troll' is generic term. Just look at this picture, then look at the mirror and tell us what kind if troll ar3 you.
Icelandic
Trolls are big nosed hairy giants.
I've never heard of regenerating throlls in folklore
>Those are pretty much universal properties of trolls for folklore
No it's not, you D&D-brainwashed moron.
They are pretty much just a mix of OG Warham Forest Goblins and D&D Trolls. Do note that while Warcraft started as a would-have-been Warham game, trolls weren't introduced until Warcraft II, and they needed something to be the mirror(-esque) of the elves, so they presumably had to get a bit creative.
>have tusks
By Warcraft 2, only Troll Berserkers have tusks, and they are the product of normal trolls and goblin alchemy. The OP image is at odds with itself; on the lefthand side a normal troll is depicted in what IIRC was the first official depiction of a troll, by Metzen. On the righthand side is a tusked troll berserker from the actual game.
Contrast the left picture with picture related.
>They are pretty much just a mix of OG Warham Forest Goblins and D&D Trolls.
Thanks. You solved the thread.
Dont know why it had to have 70 posters and counting, most of whom are just posting absolutely irrelevant shit and off topic discussion, simply because they, like a pet dog who wants to hump, are feeling an itch and have no self control whatsoever to leave their shitty mark
I serously fricking hate current day /tg/ and Ganker
Gonna cry?
I don't really think any of that matters. Trolls having tusks and regeneration was part of their first appearance, and this is a discussion of where their inspiration came from.
>Generic fantasy doesn't look like generic fantasy
ok
Anon trolls are gargantuan creatures who live underground an make faustian bargains with missionaries.
Regeneration wasn't a troll thing till THree Hearts Three Lions which DnD then made standardized.
There's also the Dancing Trolls of SHatterspear village who seem to be Jungle trolls like the Darkspear but possibly allied to Shadow Trolls.
>In general wow did trolls dirty the way all trolls got the lanky skinnyfit darkspear troll build, especially since they had a buff hulking troll model in the game already, you can see it in alpha footage in Coldridge valley for example or go look at the model on wowhead, it's just called ice troll
That's an Alpha era model, it can't wear armor and uses some animations thatt might even date back to WC3. It got some use with Zanzil's goons, and in Burning Crusade before Zul Aman's patch it was used for all the Forest Trolls in Eversong and Ghostlands.
>regenerate
Sounds like Rephaim shit.
Sounds like Nephilim shit.
iirc only berserkers had regeneration, too, not all trolls; all trolls really have is a robust physiology that can withstand the goblin alchemy
They were made by Metzen. Warcraft is mostly copied ideas, but not all of it
warcraft trolls are, by and large, cool as heck
it's a shame that the island trolls that get focused on as the only playable race trolls (until relatively recently) are some of the least interesting trolls
YOU WAN' AXE?
WHO D'YOU WAN' ME KILL?
WHERE YOU WAN' ME GO?
I always thought it was “Troll with axe”. Day ruined.
>I killed two Dwarves in the morning, I killed two Dwarves at night, I killed two Dwarves in the afternoon and then I feel alright. I killed two Dwarves in time of peace, and two Dwarves in time of war, I killed two Dwarves before I killed two Dwarves and then I killed two more!
Warcraft's trolls and goblins are the best parts of the setting. Prove me wrong.
Yes if talking purely before wow
It went downhill after
I liked the Forsaken before they got the cursed Warchief handoff in Legion and nu-nu-nu-blizzard shifted their horrific writing focus onto them.
My boy Nathanos died at the Wrathgate, I'm only here to collect his body.
Is that what Nathanios used to look like? Not a guy pretty boy simply but someone who actually looks undead?
Yeah, he was the only major Forsaken npc that didn't need a shitty recolored Alliance race model (besides Lillian Voss I guess but she is barely a side character), just a guy with minor raid boss stats sat out in the middle of the Plaguelands during the height of the Scourge's power keeping them and the Alliance off his old house with nothing but his bow and a pack of plaguehounds.
What was the old long term plans for the undead. You know, before discount thanos made everything a pawn of his retroactively. Was it just "keep living another day" or was there some grand strategy.
their long term plan was originally to kill the lich king out of revenge
then it was to turn the kingdom they already well not quite lived in into their own nation with their own undead culture which is why they started rebuilding the buildings in their towns, but make it look like halloween frankenstein architecture when before in vengeance mode they just stayed in ruins
They didn't have one initially, to the point that when Arthas finally did die, Sylvanas killed herself shortly after because she figured she was all done. Except then she was shown how awful the Shadowlands expansion- I mean hell, was and made a pact with the Val'kyr to avoid it as long as possible. From there, her kingdom was meant to be more of a defensive bulwark to keep her safe, and like the other anon said they started treating themselves as an enduring culture more than a curse, but Garrosh fricked with their attempts to keep incognito by forcing them into war with Gilneas while Sylvanas was out on her existential crisis, and in her attempts to finish the fight after returning she unintentionally kills Greymane's son (who dove in the way of an arrow meant for Genn), making peace with the Alliance all but impossible. So she leaned into it and started clearing out any territory in the vicinity that could be used as an offensive, like Hillsbrad, Andorhal or Arathi.
In Legion Sylvanas becomes Warchief after Vol'jin does nothing and dies like a wuss, and they start to introduce the concept of her looking for means to achieve immortality and thus avoid the afterlife issue indefinitely, and for a moment in BFA they have an interesting political outmaneuvering thing going with Stormwind, with Sylvanas and Anduin agreeing to a peace conference between their kingdoms where living relatives could reunite with their dead family among the Forsaken. However, it's Anduin of all people who fricks this up by secretly taking Calia fricking Menethil along and she tries to incite an open rebellion, leading to a massacre of everyone except Anduin and the Stormwindians because Sylvanas still wanted to maneuver around a direct act of war against their kingdom.
This leads to Sylvanas ruminating over the comparative strength of the Horde and Alliance, and concluding that they would lose against a full assault by the other faction. With Genn and now Anduin showing her that any peace with them would be short-lived, she decides to take the initiative and cripple them with a strike against the Night Elves. Her initial plan being to sever their leadership with the deaths of Tyrande and/or Malfurion and get them to isolate themselves from both sides, several botches in the undertaking led to her needing to call an audible and burn down Teldrassil instead as a sunk-cost demoralization effort. This is the last remotely coherent thing she does.
This was about the point I tuned out on the story for the most part, but in the little I know she amps up on the authoritarianism and cruelty towards the Alliance, leading to an inner conflict with Saurfang and the "good guy" Hordesters, which culminates in an mak'gora between the two. Saurfang has no chance of winning but manages to get a little cut on her cheek, which makes her so mad she blasts him into the ground with shadow magic and just lets spill that she hates the Horde in its entirety and frick them all and flies away.
And then, Shadowlands comes and it turns out not a single one of these aforementioned acts were fueled by political intrigue or actual character flaws in judgement and prejudice, but just some big bad man's 4D chess maneuvers. Sylvanas never meant much of any of the things she said and did, and was just trying to get a whole mess of people killed so the afterlife could be stocked with souls to fight the big soul war or whatever.
They boxed themselves into a corner with BfA by insisting from the get-go that Sylvanas wasn't just going to be Garrosh 2.0, before proceeding to write her as Garrosh 2.0. Despite having been hype about Zandalar since Vanilla, I just couldn't bring myself to play Horde during BfA because we'd already done that shit and it wasn't fun the first time.
In WC2? Yes.
Post-WC2? Garbage.
>Prove me wrong.
Impossible without fabricated evidence.
Nerubians
Anyone here know where to find archives of old Warcraft Forums? I just finished Frozen Throne for the first time and im curious as to what direction fans thought the story might go at the time
Trolls in warcraft are based.
Gay ass cool Island Jamaica trolls ruined them for me.
What are some other genuinely good and orginal warcraft ideas?
Trolls. Pyramid building underground living spider people were also cool.
The scourge was a pretty cool idea in warcaft III. Basically a spearhead invasion force for the demons headed by an orc warlock who spirit was entombed in ice and given necromantic powers by the demons he once served and then he uses the scourge to gain vengence against them.
Wow did all of warcraft dirty. Everything cool and unique they had was churned into crap to fuel a never ending online game played by literal addicts.
The scourge was cool. Villains double crossing eachother will always be based.
Dwarf mountain kings & Avatar
Wildhammer dwarfs
Orc blademaster
Spell breaker
Nerubians, Crypt Lord
WC1 Death knights
WC3 Tauren
Demon hunters
Warden
Tuskarr
Magnataur
Fel orcs
Outland
Ethereals
WC1-2 Orcs aesthetic
Undercity aesthetic in WoW
Orc clans and every clan having a "signature" thing about it - although they've extremely overdone it later on
Iron Horde in WoD was pretty cool idea
Picrelated - if they went through with it it would be awesome
Still mad we didn't get some sort of Blademaster/Spellbreaker class or build
WoW Ascension private server has a Blademaster class that is genuinely fun to play, but you have to pay real money to do it and the server it's on is in alpha.
Even then, I'd recommend it. Some of those classes are so unique and well done that I wish Blizzard would steal them, just like they stole Hardcore and SoD from private servers. If you ever wanted to play Blademasters, Witch Doctors, Priestesses of the Moon, or Necromancers, you finally can.
>WC1 Death knights
>WC1
you wot?
Yeah deathknights have been in the lore since the first game fren. They were effectively AoE mages.
There were no death knights in Warcraft: Orcs and Humans. The Orcs got the Necrolyte and the Warlock. Death Knights would be introduced in Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness as the souls of Orc Warlocks bound to the corpses of the Knights of Azeroth; and the death knights in Warcraft III were a completely different type altogether (involving none of the previous death knights).
>from where did they copy the trolls?
They didn't; Warcraft Trolls are ironically an original rendition of Trolls created by Chris Metzen and Samwise Didier, the two lead artists and creative writers for Warcraft, during Warcraft 2. They took some inspiration from Warhammer and D&D, but Warcraft Trolls are very much an original Warcraft thing.
>What are some other genuinely good and orginal warcraft ideas?
The only thing I'd add to this Anon's list:
Broken Draenei. Specifically Broken.
Ogres.
Murlocs.
It's actually kind of depressing to think about, but early Warcraft (maybe as late as Burning Crusade) had a lot of really fun, down to heart, distinctly "American", fantasy content.
good guy orcs
No wood elves nor dark elves, but Night Elves.
nerubians are my favorite
Now they got bipedal spiders
i was gonna post "before they added lame fuggable humanoid ones" but then i wondered if it was just google image search fricking up, because its been a while since i was into WoW
#NotMyNerubs
I always said if they eventually do get around to making the nerubian zone they might actually get another month of subbing out of me. But these new nerubians thankfully saved me from that.
Funny how that works. There have been a dozen things I thought I would come back for if they introduced but they do it in such a detestable way that I change my mind. For example, I always wanted to play as one of those big dragon frickers from BWL, Blizzard goes to add a playable dragon race and look at what we got. Its like a neverending monkey paw with this company.
I made a Nerubian constructed language based on Sumerian and Akkadian.
They also for some reason placed the new continent close to AQ and Pandaria when half the point of the difference between the divergent ex-aqir races is the distance helping them split so far apart.
And how the FRICK the "Ancient Arathi" ended up there who the frick knows.
I like the draenei
>draenei
Friendly reminder Diaboli from D&D were first.
They don't really look similar aside from being blue and having hooves
Draenei feel very original, though I personally find them obnoxiously boring. I don't know if maybe there's a serious precursor for them in fiction. I don't really consider "tieflings" or anything like that to be valid since draenei have a very distinct culture/aesthetic.
my brother in the light you are and shall forever be my homie
Purple elf women with huge horse wieners
How did it all go so wrong?
Isn't that fan art on the right?
It's Hearthstone art IIRC
No, its fan art made in the Hearthstone art style. You can reverse image search and the artist himself claims as much.
No, why do you say this in every thread every time this image is posted? It’s official art, it’s from hearthstone.
Because who the frick cares about a supplemental card game as a representative of aesthetic. Even if that’s the main look that argument is so fricking stupid like morons who take WHFRP as the main representation of Warhammer
Metzen wanted dindu nuffin Orcs. It all went down hill from there.
Orcs don't act african at all though.
I remember that people automatically assumed orcs were surprised to be black all throughout the 2000s.
Lots of Rap and Hip Hop jokes in the fandom.
I don’t know where this denial later came from since it was pretty thick on /tg/ until maybe 2017-18.
*Supposed to be black, not surprised
And I'm not sure where the assumption that orcs were black came from. It didn't really start showing up in game until TBC where we were introduced to uncorrupted orcs, who were brown. But that was another TBC retcon. It always felt like the blackcoding was something added AFTER the general fanbase began to view them as black. Maybe it's just the NA fanbase assuming that Orcs must be black since Humans were predominantly White. I dunno. The obvious black race were Trolls, who are just straight out Caribbean Voodoo stereotypes (mixed with Mesoamerican stereotypes).
Orcs were supposed to be Mongol hordes of pop culture - Genghis Khan, pillaging and burning, etc. That's why it's "the Horde". The Warcraft I cover even has the Orc in a Mongol-style fur cap, the pig blood drinking, etc. Maybe a bit of Viking too, with the horned helmets.
I always thought orcs were asian coded.
The W3 manual (at least I think it was the W3 manual) specifically mentions drawing upon Japanese and Native American influence when designing non-demonic Orcs/Horde of that game. Funnily enough the Night Elves were also influenced by both those cultures.
this
they're basically a native american and japanese fusion with conan the barbarian aesthetics
By WC3 They were literally in frickin Internment camps as the result of a war.\
>their trolls being buff tribal jamacan berzerkers is actually pretty unique.
Forest Trolls are Cuban.
That's just samwise and his hardon for China and pandas
That's horseshit. The few people who joked about the similarities between orcs and blacks were being deliberately edgy. I was here the whole time, and not once have I seen anyone seriously suggest that orcs were stand-ins for blacks. It's especially ludicrous when you consider Warhammer orcs, whose inspiration is as on the nose as it gets.
well that's the thing tho, if even one edgy right wing person compares x to racist stereotype the left will eat that up.
see. ok hand symbol, pepe, 2 + 2 = 4, and literally everything else, literally everything is racist at this point because racist people like things and that means things are racist. That's just their line of logic
the ok symbol used in that specific way (you know what I'm talking about) is absolutely a far-right dog whistle, stop being a fricking moron
>far-right dog whistle
Seems like it's you that's the moron.
r*dditbrain
No I don't know what you're talking about because I'm not an autist, who deems things racist just because a racist used them.
>the ok symbol used in that specific way (you know what I'm talking about) is absolutely a far-right dog whistle
You absolutely need to go back.
>far-right
The 666 handsign is far right?
>he fell for the /misc/ psyop
Sad.
Money. It corrupts all artistic endeavors into monetized content. If something is good, it will make money. If it makes money, it will be optimized to make money, at the cost of any other quality it might have had.
I was hardcore into Warcraft in High School, played WoW from late vanilla into early Cataclysm. For the first time in years I returned to wikicrawl and going through the Warcraft wiki was like
even with the shit retcons going into WoW from War3, the setting felt like a comfy homebrew from a cool DM who genuinely put their heart into making a living world but didn't take themselves too seriously at the end of the day. WoW really suffered creatively from it's own success, it was clearly never expected to take off like it did and it really shows in the way the lore and narrative were aimless and disconnected as frick and increasingly went off the rails into full moron mode as the game went on, WoD was 100% conceived under the influence of cocaine, Legion was clearly meant to be an ending to the game but sold well enough to keep the corpse dancing, BFA was a jumbled mess of girl bosses and Marvel references, SL took everything that people liked about the setting and irrevocably inverted and cashed it all in for less than zero payoff, and DF is a fusion dance between a straight to VHS 90s Disney movie and a soap opera with literal who bad guys that look like fricking Ben 10 aliens
I stopped playing the game in Mists after burnout but still follow the story from afar because it has gone so far beyond defacing something I once enjoyed and has boldly entered lulcow territory
>WoW really suffered creatively from it's own success
Very much so, yes. WoW was originally intended to be a fun time-sink filler to keep fans enthusiastic while Blizzard worked on completing Warcraft 4.
Did anything they added in the expansions come from Warcraft 4?
Nobody ever confirmed that they recycled Warcraft 4 into WoW, but considering the increasing incoherency as the expandsion count grew, I imagine they put a fair bit of WC4 into WoW earlier on and when it dried up they needed to come up with newer material and didn't have writers up to the task.
I could easily see the Wailing Caverns,
Diremaul, and Ahn'Qiraj having been components of a Night Elf campaign about putting Kalimdor into order and cleaning up the messes of their people, for example.
I know that bits and pieces from the RPG that nobody played managed to work their way into the mmo
Inevitably, all fantasy media becomes self-insert slop.
Warcraft has always deftly adapted to what is popular at the moment in order to maximize profit. The lore has always been completely subservient to the needs of the next game.
>orc men then
>orc men now
Alliance subversion, clearly.
Around the late Legion era Blizzard had one of the marketing director’s wives take over as story lead.
H O W N O W?
god i hate blizzard
warcraft 3 was peak and everything afterwards was garbage.
I always thought they looked kinda looked like Tam Tam.
>I will never eviscerat hordes of undead with a cool worgen model to liberate Gilneas
>instead all I can do is fight a couple cringy MAGA stand-ins *alongside* the undead and be given a hollow victory, with a really dumb character model.
>if blizzard copied gamesworkshop
They didn't. It's been debunked a million times.
The idea that warcraft was originally supposed to be a Warhammer game may have been debunked. But they definitely copied a lot from Warhammer.
>But they definitely copied a lot from Warhammer.
All art is derivative. Warhammer is derivative of Tolkien. Who derived a crap load from opera and germanic folklore, who got it from literal folktales.
Doesn't make it bad or force you to like it, but hardly any modern things is truly "original"
I'm not sure why you bothered typing out such a nothing post.
I don't care what you think is sufficient.
I accept your concession of defeat.
>But they definitely copied a lot from Warhammer.
Please explain thoroughly and in detail at least 5 different major things Warcraft copied from Warhammer. I specify major because cheap observations like "both have green orcs" or "dwarves use guns in both" are not sufficient.
lmao the absolute copium of that post
he's not wrong, though
This is what people who copy wow orcs ignore and that is why this interpretation of this race only works in warcraft
>go back in time and stop the orcs from drinking the green kool-aid
>they go and genocide the draenei anyway
Yrel did nothing wrong.
its actually pretty impressive how much traction this character has with Warcraft fans considering how little screen time she actually had what with her entire story arc being skipped because of content cuts in WoD
I don't think she even had a unique model
IIRC her horns were completely unique until they added them to Lightforge Draenei at the end of Legion.
She's just a hot draenei, why everyone loves her. If she were in skimpier armor, everyone would be simping harder.
Warcraft peaked with Tides of Darkness. This is an objective fact and cannot be disputed.
I´ve come to notice that people who play trolls usually play every subrace and every tribe of trolls but the actual playable darkspear tribe. How comes?
They are the blandest.
so how do we change that and make them interesting?
They are be far the worst trolls. Even the Sandfury ones were cooler.
Why. What makes them so bad.
They had no culture. Literally a loser tribe, only known because no canibalism and being prey of other tribes.
Still kind of mad that there's no troll-armored bat mount in the game.
Because they're runts that were losing to murlocks before Thrall picked them up out of charity. They were supposed to be somewhat depraved and more savage than the orcs and tauren, but instead they became dude weed lmao stereotypes and the main proponent of post-cata "we are a family" carebear horde that only redditors like.
Darkspears are shit, is why. Besides the embarrassing Murloc origins, they don't headline anything meaningful in the lore except killing cooler Troll leaders like Zul'jin and the Zandalari, and Vol'jin went from a wizened advisor to Thrall to a huffy baby b***h at Garrosh, that died to a fodder demon after becoming Warchief and puttering around doing nothing for an expansion.
They're basically the worst aspects of Tauren (Alliance simping, all the nonplayable variants look cooler) with no positive besides the fact that Troll models in general are pretty cool.
Because their background is shit and they didn't fix it in wow. In wc3 they were okay because all the horde races in that game are refugees and its a rts game where the lore really isn't the most important factor. In wow the darkspear tribe has zero good lore to them and thats bad for a PC race. They are just an offshoot tribe of jungle trolls that got their asses kicked by murlocs until being saved by orcs. Wow has them being the least important race in the horde. Every other race has a main territory that is theirs full of lore(quests lol) pertaining specifically to them. Trolls don't have that, they just have shitty scattered villages here or there and most of the "troll areas" are not even darkspear trolls, they are just another allied tribe of trolls. This last problem is exacerbated by the fact that anything important that happens in the game exclusively involving trolls is some other troll tribe doing it. If darkspear trolls are apart of the thing happening its only because the horde is involved and nothing pertaining to them exclusively.
Instead of that shit lore for wow the darkspear tribe should have been from its own powerful tribe like the Amani or Zandalari. They should have been island trolls with a powerful island city state that was sunk beneath the waves long ago. Every other player race gets some kind of neat lore to them like that and alot of it gets expanded on.
>orcs are former demon blood addicts.
>nelves are used to be immortal world guardians now dealing with the loss of that immortality.
>humans are trying to rebuild after being totally and completely fricked twice.
>tauren are a tribal society forming their first city ever.
>dwarves are dwarves.
>forsaken are undead recently freed from eternal servitude by the LK. They are having to deal with their undead state and a world that hates them.
>gnomes are refugees from their own technological hubris.
The Darkspear should have been recruiting other Trolls to the Horde, then you could have been Green as well and have a reason for where all the Trolls came from.
That's kinda what wow did though and it didn't make darkspears cool.
>get fricked by their fellow jungle trolls and kicked out
>get fricked by fricking MURLOCS and entire refugee island sinks
>get fricked by human fleet, straight up bullying at this rate, get kicked out of islands temporarily
>get fricked by a single traitor troll, get kicked out of islands AGAIN
It's amazing that they get carried so hard by the WoW troll aesthetic (not even the cool beefier forest troll) because they are honestly pathetic. Still, I liked the WC3 units and they were with orcs for my WoW Horde race picks.
I'm pretty sure the only other allied troll clan's supposed to be Revantusk in Hinterlands and every other horde troll is actually Darkspear which is even more moronic to me, like blizz couldn't bother figuring out native dark troll tribes of Kalimdor so they just went /shrug "nothing but us darkspears here"
In general wow did trolls dirty the way all trolls got the lanky skinnyfit darkspear troll build, especially since they had a buff hulking troll model in the game already, you can see it in alpha footage in Coldridge valley for example or go look at the model on wowhead, it's just called ice troll
It really shows that trolls and gnomes were a last minute addition to the playable race roster, obly gnomes got more fleshed out thanks to Gnomer
>the only other allied troll clan's supposed to be Revantusk
Just to check, we’re ignoring the Zandalari, then?
Yes, some BfA shit has nothing to do with what was being discussed
They were one of Blizzard's original ideas and honestly if you deleted orcs complete trolls alone could had been an interesting setting antagonist.
they didnt copy everything from warhammer. their trolls being buff tribal jamacan berzerkers is actually pretty unique.
also the idea that trolls are basically neanderthal elves was pretty interesting
>from where did they copy the trolls?
General fantasy and folklore
>its very cool & original race
Yes it is. And the Shaman class is perhaps the most original thing Blizzard ever came up. Many have tried to replicate it, but I've yet to encounter a game system that gets close to allowing you to switch between Melee-Healing-Casting specialisations so flexibly.
Captcha: wh0a
>And the Shaman class is perhaps the most original thing Blizzard ever came up. Many have tried to replicate it, but I've yet to encounter a game system that gets close to allowing you to switch between Melee-Healing-Casting specialisations so flexibly.
I'll also put Paladin up there. Obviously it's not a Blizzard original concept, but their execution of Paladins is the gold standard for video games and makes even D&D paladins feel watered down in terms of theming.
Here is even earlier
That video was still posted during WotLK. And it's mostly just an identity projected onto the Orcs rather than something derived from their character traits.
>And it's mostly just an identity projected onto the Orcs rather than something derived from their character traits.
That's how the whole "orcs are blacks" thing began in the first place. It's 100% motivated by cope, seethe, projection, etc. One look at the orc aesthetic reveals their inspiration: heavy metal pulp barbarians. It was obvious even during the WC1 and WC2 eras with the huge battleaxes, loincloths, horned helmets, etc. They took it a step further in WC3 by giving them berserker-style wolf headdresses and even writing a fricking metal song about being an orc warrior in the Horde. They continued to hammer this obvious inspiration throughout WoW's lifespan, culminating in the overt explosion of pulp influence that Warlords of Draenor oozed with.
Shadowlands was broken up into teams responsible for giving each area it's own feeling. The odd zone out being The Maw. But at least with Maldraxxus they went all in for going back to the kind of over the top, everything is a Death Rock cover from the 80's feel that felt very old school WC3.
I get that things change and everything, but it has always been clear that the art team never skip shoulders at the gym to always raise the entire game up by work with what they have
For those that need the history lesson, since I haven't seen it mentioned:
GW approached Blizzard after Warcraft II and worked with them to create an RTS for Warhammer 40,000 after they started having disputes with Holistic Design (Epic: Final Liberation). Blizzard learned the hard way why those disputes happened when GW pulled out of the agreement after months of development in 1997. Blizzard was left holding the bag, with 3/4ths of a game built. They made the decision to change the visual assets as little as they could while still keeping clear of GW's legal team, and released StarCraft in '98.
Oh what could have fricking been....
Based Blizzard, I'm honestly glad every interaction they had with GW ended up resulting in Blizz making a genre-defining all-time great video game while GW was left with nothing. Honestly, it's 100% BECAUSE Blizzard was able to have full creative freedom over their titles that the games became legendary. Blizz created iconic characters and stories that took the world by storm, while Warhammer remains a sort of bloated, niche mess.
Both companies seem to have been taken over by morons, unfortunately.
Its the way of all corporations.
Pretty much, yeah. The problem is that the business gets started by passionate people trying to make sonething cool and fun. But of course, they want to get it out to people to play, so they hire some sales people to market it. Over time, the marketing and sales teams get really good at what they're doing, the IP really gets popular, and there's more money to make yet more cool and fun stuff.
The tipping point of the decline is when the sales people get enough prominence from raking in more and more cash that they start to take more precedent in the business than the commodities themselves; profit overcomes product. Then the sales people start to get put into positions of leadership rather than the creatives, because they're the ones making the business more successful.
And then you get fewer and poorer writers, because the business can get by on less excellent product now that their brand's established, so they're starting to minimize expenses in addition to maximizing profits. Add time and cut-throat corporate culture, and you get shit like Current Year Blizzard.
tldr; once the sales team siezes the reigns from the developer team, it's over; the fall of the empire is assured, and only the timeframe is uncertain.
That's an urban legend. The only connection between GW and Blizz has been the admission that Warcraft: Orcs and Humans was heavily inspired by Warhammer Fantasy.
I'd be happy to eat crow if a reputable source can be provided.
ntayrt
The idea that 40k nids ripped off starcraft is bunk. Kyromech came out well before either, had much of the art team move on to work with games workshop and design tyranids. In the meantime I coulnd't find any of the artists listed as starcraft artists with blizzard but the designs for the zerg are specifically influenced by the kyromech.
Blizzard just used older designs from a different game, the artists who made them went on to use those same designs at GW.
idgaf about ripping things off, the whole thing is from Alien anyway and that's probably influenced by other things, that's how art works but might as well get the timelines right.
>kryomech
Might as well spell it right.
Game is interesting, free from Scotia Grendel, still have the models for sale too.
There's an entire section on the human corporate alliance civil war that might be a bit like starcraft but its a lot less direct than the bug aliens.
Ultimately, the important thing is that both the Tyranids and Zerg are both cool in their own right, and have their own identities, even if the aesthetics can overlap at times.
Star craft never really did it for me, no offense, just didn't find it very interesting but that's more because rts wasn't a thing I liked very much compared to turn based games.
The historical linkages are interesting though.
That's fair. Age of Empires 2 and Starcraft 1 are what got me into video games and subsequently gaming in general to begin with, so Blizz had an in with me from the start, but I can easily see Warhammer and TTRPG filling that niche in someone else.
I started with historical hex&chits and stuff like Panzer General so that checks out.
I remember really liking the art in my friend's warcraft 2 booklet though. That shit was very cool to adolescent me.
>The only connection between GW and Blizz has been the admission that Warcraft: Orcs and Humans was heavily inspired by Warhammer Fantasy.
Heavily inspired? Only for the artstyle... and Warcraft's artstyle quickly became its own thing, so in the end Warhammer didn't really lend much of its DNA to Warcraft.
>"[Blizzard co-founder] Allen Adham hoped to obtain a license to the Warhammer universe to try to increase sales by brand recognition", Wyatt says. "Warhammer was a huge inspiration for the art-style of Warcraft, but a combination of factors, including a lack of traction on business terms and a fervent desire on the part of virtually everyone else on the development team (myself included) to control our own universe nixed any potential for a deal. We had already had terrible experiences working with DC Comics on "Death and Return of Superman" and "Justice League Task Force", and wanted no similar issues for our new game."
>Dwarven Avatar
At that point you're solidly in Warcraft 3, at which point Warcraft has abandoned everything that can really be construed as its Warhammer roots.
Starcraft ironically (because it was conceptualized later) has more of Warhammer 40k in it than Warcraft has Warhammer Fantasy at this point.
>At that point you're solidly in Warcraft 3, at which point Warcraft has abandoned everything that can really be construed as its Warhammer roots.
Even the WC1 art looks nothing like Warhammer. It has all the DNA of what would become the signature WC style. Big blocky armor, exaggerated silhouettes, busty women with hourglass figures, etc. It looks a lot more like classic D&D art (which makes sense, considering the Blizzard oldheads are well-known for playing assloads of D&D during this time period) than Warhammer art. It's a lot more "comic book-esque" than what you find from Warhammer during this same time.
>Even the WC1 art looks nothing like Warhammer.
Wrong. You're the one that clearly weren't there to see it.
Wrong. I was there. They don't look alike.
Um-
>>"[Blizzard co-founder] Allen Adham hoped to obtain a license to the Warhammer universe to try to increase sales by brand recognition", Wyatt says. "Warhammer was a huge inspiration for the art-style of Warcraft, but a combination of factors, including a lack of traction on business terms and a fervent desire on the part of virtually everyone else on the development team (myself included) to control our own universe nixed any potential for a deal. We had already had terrible experiences working with DC Comics on "Death and Return of Superman" and "Justice League Task Force", and wanted no similar issues for our new game."
That could mean they never really reached out in the first place.
Proto40k space marine and graffiti in spacebar sort of scenes.
Tyranid warriors.
More of that.
It would be interesting to know why there was a shift back towards this sort of design for later editions compared to the 2nd edition nids.
The convict troopers have some similarity to space marine 1st edition psycho criminals but that's not very unique given the mixes of scifi concepts.
derp
Might be one of the earlier gamebooks where art and rules were presented as in-world computer files.
I for one love the Klingon style Orcs as player characters.
Why do left wingers want orcs to be Black folk so bad? You’re really bringing up a storefront post that’s nearing two decades old to prove this point? Psychotic, is it because you’re embarrassed you’ve been called out for doing this? That you’ve genuinely internalized racism from rightoid jokes and memes?
>Why do left wingers want orcs to be Black folk so bad?
Subversion. If they can make the indefensible defensible then they're happy. They always lie. They accuse you of what they're doing to you. If you don't play along they attack you. If you don't fall they destroy you.
Sadly the writers didn't make the Burning Legion about this.
It doesn't matter because warcraft has been shit for literally 15 years now.
and here in this thread you see what makes a dog-whistle a dog-whistle
let me spell it out for the slow amongst you: it's a dog-whistle specifically because you make it subtle enough that some people are in disbelief that it even exists and will accuse you of over-reacting for pointing it out, but it's clear enough amongst the "in-group" to not be easily misconstrued
Godm you're frickin' moronic.
thank you for continue to reinforce the example!
Take your meds and touch some grass.
>People disagreeing with me is proof that I'm right
I don't think it's a coincidence that the last time I heard this argument, it was in defence of feminism.
Election tourist pls keep it in your pants, we're trying to talk traditional games. Well, we're trying to talk about video games tangentially related to video games.
...actually you know what you can have this one, this thread sucks.
The election was 8 years ago anon
Anon, they publicly stated that they're going to pretend the ok sign is an alt-right symbol to troll hysterical liberals. That's not subtlety.
Who would you pick to take up leadership of the forsaken? and why is it Whitemane