If everything is grimdark in a setting, is anything grimdark? Seems like without good stuff to give a contrast it just becomes meaningless edginess without anyone having a reason to care.
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If everything is grimdark in a setting, is anything grimdark?
>edginess without anyone having a reason to care
That's the point.
Nobody caring is what makes it grim and the world's refusal to change is what makes it dark.
Fpbp
moronic take
The contrast is other settings, dummy. That's like saying spicy food isn't spicy unless it comes with cold food. You've experienced other things, you can tell on its own.
But within the setting the people within it *haven't* experienced other things, so why would they have any reason to think it could be different?
>so why would they have any reason to think it could be different?
They don’t. That’s why becoming a Commissar, whose main job is to kill friendly soldiers, is heroic and cool.
The point of 40k (and punk/dystopic media in general) is that everything is shit, there's nothing you can do about it, and you're better off just curling in a ball and killing yourself. Unironically the happy ending of 40k is the crons or nids ending all life in the universe.
The "point" of dystopian fiction, ESPECIALLY cyberpunk, is usually satirical and/or as a warning. "This shitty shitty world," says the author, "is either the one we live in or the one we are currently creating. And since it is so shitty, maybe we should instead create something else in this present real world."
The thing I don't like about a lot of dystopian fiction is that they posit an end of history scenario when most dystopias have inherent contradictions that would rapidly lead to their collapse within a few decades. The Imperium is so godawful that they're working their citizens 20 hours per day in death camp like conditions, spire nobles run about killing billions in annual peasant hunts for fun, and pollute their worlds so heavily that the atmosphere will melt your skin if you take a stroll through the hive without protective equipment, yet somehow manage to maintain this for tens of thousands of years. I guess at least there, there is a slow decline instead of indefinite status quo. Cyberpunk gets really bad about this, as corporations are inherently short sighted and one of the best and worse features of capitalism is how unstable it is. About the only dystopia I could see lasting for hundreds of years is Ingsoc from 1984.
Ironic you say this since one of the greatest criticisms of 1984 during it's own time was that a government that oppressive on earth would never last very long since it would self-destruct under it's own inflexible, unsustainable weight.
Meanwhile the Imperium is such an unimaginably massive and diverse entity no single human being can ever grasp even 1% of its immensity at any one time and so it is able to go on being the way it is in perpetuity through sheer inertia and dehumanizing scale.
It's like you came to the exact opposite conclusion of what the reality would actually be.
>Ironic you say this since one of the greatest criticisms of 1984 during it's own time was that a government that oppressive on earth would never last very long since it would self-destruct under it's own inflexible, unsustainable weight.
I feel that's mostly because 1984 is a very... middle class dystopia. In fact, the closest the setting has to hope is the poor people. Despite most of the characters basically viewing them like animals. Which, intentional or not, I think is pretty apt satire.
>it would self-destruct under it's own inflexible, unsustainable weight
Isn't some part of the book written like a historical analysis of a past regime that no longer exists? Meaning that Oceania actually did collapse or disappear somehow.
I see your point. On one hand, a lot of dark future science fiction does imply this is the "end result." On the other hand, they're not usually trying to make an actual point about the future, but about the present.
are you suggesting the Emperor is grimdark? That sounds like...heresy
Just because you don't care doesn't mean it isn't dark.
Grimdark means that everything is edgy.
Anyway, the past is the contrast point. Everything is grim in the 40k but before men of iron revolt humanity where almost perfect and you should remember that warhammer is our timeline, so in the 2k some things were nice.
Real life is what gives a contrast to 40K. You know you're not supposed to make a game your whole life, right anon?
The contrast is our own reality and perception of the world, compared to this world. It's like saying there can't be a nice, utopian setting unless the author mentions some other country is throwing babies in woodchippers to fertilize their farms.
You almost refute yourself but ruin it just to go straight to absurdity.
A story set in a utopian setting with no conflict would be a shitty story
A story set in a dystopian setting where nothing good can ever happen has no stakes, no tension, no reason to get invested, and is also a shitty story.
>Seems like without good stuff to give a contrast it just becomes meaningless edginess without anyone having a reason to care.
Gw sometimes remembers this and in my experience most fans cling onto these small bright points.
The imperium is destined to lose but the sacrifices of it's soldiers are still worth it (usually)
I don't know.
>everything
Internal/fictional perspective is different than our external/irl perspective. The inhabitants of the grim dankness of the 40worst millennium are by and large unaware of how totally fricked it is, or even if the they some idea are still struggling against the dying of the light.
There is good to be had even in the shittiest hive hole for the lucky. Love, music, games, all that sort of thing in the moments of peace between suffering. But even if we talk about people living good lives those exists too, it just comes with the cost of billions of lives that protect the mankind that produce foods and arms for those good places to exist. For that one man to have a boring office job where he stamps papers produced with sweat of hundred kids using ink made with blood of thousand more, so that million guardsmen can be moved to new battlefield to protect the star sector. Then proceeds to drink tea and cry how life is boring, he doesnt even know how lucky he has it. Its just that some really like to forget that that exists and focuses only on the fight that protects, not what its protecting
You'd be right. That's why I think Gundam's UC setting is far more grimdark than a purposefully-grimdark setting.
Despite the best efforts of some people, it's never getting better. Peace is at best a momentary illusion.
>capeshit
Nah
NTA, but capeshit is literally some of the most grimdark shit imaginable.
>Hell is real and will invade you.
>Aliens are real and will invade you.
>Lovecraft extradimensional horrors are real and will invade you.
>Only thing standing between them and unspeakable horror is a bunch of weirdly dressed freaks that die/go evil every other weekend.
>Every future is some horrible dystopia where robots take over and kill everybody.
>Universe reboots every few years. You will most likely wake up one day and your wife and kids will have disappeared.
The only reason it's not more noticeable is because, at least in the Marvel universe, basically every civilian has it coming.
>weirdly dressed freaks that die/go evil every other weekend.
It's capeshit, they recover by Monday.
I know, but like I said that has to be hell for your average person.
Imagine waking up and your entire family is gone because a parody of superhero fans punched reality or the flash tried to go back in time to save his mom.
Serious question: Is canon Touhou grimdark?
I don't think so, despite how dystopian the setting has gotten in most recent lore.
>Is canon Touhou grimdark?
Is canni can canon?
>Is canon Touhou grimdark
Can I get a rundown on the Touhou canon lore and why it is grimdark?
I personally like the point of noblebright characters getting their hopes and dreams pushed in by an overwhelming tide of grimdarkness. No matter how hard you try to save to save your world, even if you win, the Imperium is still out there, they still want their tithe, and your people will be thrown into the chaos meatgrinder because nothing you do matters.
Unless you're Rowboat Girlyman lmao frick the setting's tone I am James Workshop buy a primaris lieutenant.
That literally is Rowboat Girlyman though.
>But Primaris
Aren't going to fix the setting.
>enacts galaxy wide change after ten thousand years of stagnation and decline
>oh my god emprah he's so helpless because he has to talk to the high lords poor babby
I hope they shove this bullshit back into the Horse Hearsay where it belongs by having the traitor primarchs and loyalist primarchs all frick each other off. They won't though, they just want to sell bigger army men with bigger price tags.
A lot of that was Abbadon destroying Cadia and the eye of terror going into overdrive though.
This topic is probably one of the best storytelling equivalence of "1st world problem." People in the shittiest conditions still have a will to live if they are accustomed to it.
Black person you don't have much of a will to live if you're chained to a workbench and forced to work 20 hours a day.
Maybe (You) don't have a will to live. I'll be staying alive until I die.
Which is going to be about a week.
Checked.
It seems like the Tau are sort of what you're talking about.
>If everything is grimdark in a setting, is anything grimdark?
Grimdark isn't determined in-universe, it's determined out-universe by us, so yes, it would all still be grimdark.
will plastic glue still bond to painted/primed plastic?
>if everything is bad does everything stop being bad?
damn you're stupid.
Not half as stupid as OP, however.
>If everything is grimdark in a setting, is anything grimdark?
yes
God, you're dumb
Ever noticed how in Grimdark settings, you´re not supposed to take the role of your dirty shit shoveller? You may start out as one, but most grimdark settings have you go the route of power fantasy by becoming a badass who´s going to kick evils face in by the thousands. Yes, everything´s still fricked, but at least its no hyper fricked. Yes, people are still dickheads and tyrants, but at least they dont burn in giga hell. Yes, the arch demon might simply respawn in hell and there is no way to off him for good, but you still fricked his ass last battle and bought humanity another 20 years. Its the same in your Diablo, your Path of Exile, your 40k story with Space Marine protags, everywhere. Turn on some metal, and kick some fricks faces in. Cant win, but you sure can spite them.
>If everything is grimdark in a setting, is anything grimdark?
Yes, you just said everything is grimdark
>will my fractured wrist stop hurting if I break every bone in my body?
It actually will, prove me wrong.
I don't want to break your bones I'll go to jail.