if ho-oh created the legendary dogs from the corpses of flareon jolteon and vaporeon when the tower burned a couple years ago
how can they have ancient forms?
if ho-oh created the legendary dogs from the corpses of flareon jolteon and vaporeon when the tower burned a couple years ago
Different timeline, the game addressed it
This is not a fanfic thread.
It can happen though, ORAS is literally about how its in a parallel universe where mega evolution was discovered much earlier
Zinnia tried to warn us
I'm not denying the Pokemon universe has a multiverse. I'm jus denying the people who say the paradoxes aren't biologically ancestors.
>timetravelschizo is STILL malding
I have yet to see conclusive proof to the opposite.
How does alt timelines fulfill this any more than being from another time?
"They're not supposed to exist in this timeline yet here they are because we moved them from there to here" Is literally equally paradoxical as "They're not supposed to exist in this point in time yet here they are because we moved them from there to here"
They're not related to the contemporary legendary beasts though. If you want their common ancestor, see pic related.
As already stated, that's pure fanfic. It may have been heavily implied in the past, but never confirmed. This type of stuff they're allowed to go back on and change because they never actually said it.
Frankly I was just memeing. The Paradox Beasts are simply the Legendary Beasts from a different reality, implying a comparable history despite everything being dinosaurs.
Okay but now you just pivoted to another fanfic.
What? Did you not play the game? Professor Sada explicitly explains this.
This is why I hate Zinnia. It's all her fault that we're in this multiverse bullshit now!
We were ALWAYS in this multiverse bullshit, you dumb little bastard. Most fricking Gens got a redo of the region telling the same fricking story, but differently in fine details.
But Zinnia actually pointed this shit out to you as a kid, so you'll cry it only happened when it got pointed out to you. Because you're a dumb little bastard.
Actually before remakes job were to do damage control and build on established lore. It’s post XY when the snowball really started to form thanks to the dickhead who greenlit the draft that mega evolution just always existed bro, trust us. ORAS tried to do damage control on this shit but instead gave Gamefreak opportunity to open Pandora’s box which they did with rainbow rocket. You’d think it would stop there but nope, Giovanni jumping to an alternate universe, said alternate universe bringing fricking Ash into the game canon, fricking hell. But why stop there, now get paradox Pokémon that shit on the lore established Pokémon like the legendary dogs and you know what? We’re expected not to question it, just consume. God damn I thought the Star Wars fans had it bad when Disney threw their shit out the window for a new timeline. At least despite being a giant turd it’s fricking consistent.
Cool headcanon. they were still evidence of the multiverse because they told a different story to the base game and when remakes came along and they remade the initial pair, proved they were just as valid as the rehash versions.
Sorry you're a dumb c**t.
Cool headcanon is now argument concession which Ill accept. Thanks for playing.
Denied dipshit. Like I saisd, you being a fricking child who sat with his head up his arse in clear evidence to the contrary doesn't negate the fact this shit was always a thing. As mentioned, Gen 1 had Red trade with Red in the Union room.
I didn’t stutter but it’s nice to see it upset you.
>autistic
Not upset moron, just don't sugarcoat my words when dealing with (supposed) adults. Nice comeback hey, if you were brighter, you wouldn't need to think of a comeback, as you'd have been smart enough to see the situation from the start and wouldn't be upset now at being schooled. Alas, you aren't, so that's why it took you 9 hours to "n-no u" me.
>Not upset
Yes you are.
Exactly. It just makes the game lore extremely messy which is why I think they should just reboot in Gen 10 or at least just reset to Gen 2 or something. Or at least write out all of the old gimmicks like Megas, Z moves, Dymamax etc...
Canonizing it allows for lazy writing and 0 stakes in the in-game world. The unwritten rule was that every game is in its own universe, hence the link cable being described as a portal to another world. But making it a plot point is a step too far.
Tough shit, they always operated on this assumption. You being a dumb c**t until the game told you otherwise is irrelevant.
Just smacks of misplaced anger at not being aware enough to realise it pre-ORAS.
But it leads to such cool concepts such as histories greatest villains from their own parallel universes in which they all won banding together
We've been living in multiverse bullshit since the very first game, where you could trade with alternate versions of the player character, something that's been franchise standard.
Paradox implies they exist while they cannot exist. That's what a paradox IS you dense motherfricker.
GF's worldbuilding is otherworldy bad. They literally can't do anything logical without having to create an alternate timeline or universe. It's just stupid at this point.
>can't do anything logical
Damn sounds like it's supposed to be a fantasy world or something
This isn’t the gotcha response you think it is.
It's the only gotcha response that i needed to say
Should’ve called them out when the seeds were during gen 6.
That’s why I stopped trying to make sense of the franchise back in gen 6 when ORAS dropped
This. Thank Ohmori for his obsession with alternate universes
>Different timeline, the game addressed it
It's an imaginary timeline that was created on a fricking whim. It did not exist previously before the game's mcguffin.
Stop being intellectually dishonest about it, moron.
>It's an imaginary timeline that was created on a fricking whim. It did not exist previously before the game's mcguffin.
All timelines are imaginary until they get introduced in a new game anon.
>imaginary
>timeline
lel, both camps lost
You sound incredibly stupid. You can say that about literally any alternative timeline that's mentioned. Getting mad over your own stupidity just makes you look psychotic.
The game literally addressed how Paradoxes came to be. I can't tell if you're just fishing for someone to spoonfeed you because you yourself missed it.
>the game addressed it
Nice headcanon moron
>headcanon fanfiction
The only thing the game addresses is that Terapagos can cause a time paradox. With Arven pointing out the paradox pokemon being around Area Zero long before your professor's time machine. Then of course the event with your professor at the end of Indigo Disk. All of you imaginationgays need to just admit you were moronic for trying to read between the lines in a fricking Pokemon game instead of just accepting what was told, plain and simple.
>how DARE people use their brain to think
You're right there would be no problem with that. If the story was in any game that isn't purposefully made to be extremely simple for dumbass children. Games like Pokemon and the Mario bros.
>people are still doubting this even after the Crystal Pool event
GF elaborating on what Terapagos and the Paradoxes were an entire year after the base game released did irreparable damage to the Pokemon community. Paradoxes really were just Ultra Beasts but handled poorly.
>if ho-oh created the legendary dogs from the corpses of flareon jolteon and vaporeon when the tower burned a couple years ago
[citation needed]
Nu gens were a mistake
>A Pokémon that races across the land. It is said that one is born every time a new volcano appears.
Ho-Oh didn't do shit.
My headcanon is that Ho-oh created the first set of the beasts, and then just more pop up here and there.
Prometheus didn't invent fire, but it's how the Greek Mythology describes it.
>it is said
Just a rumor
>In the distant past... When this tower burned in a fire, three nameless Pokémon perished in it. Then, a rainbow-hued Pokémon descended from the sky and somehow brought them back... The people were afraid of power such as the rainbow-hued Pokémon had shown. They tried to control it by force. The nameless Pokémon made no attempt to fight back. Instead, their great sorrow compelled them to leave. This legend has been passed down by the Ecruteak Gym Leader. Me? I was a Trainer way back when. Ho ho ho!
Not worse than "legend"
>verifiably past down by people everyone knows and not one person disputed it
>as opposed to a pokedex entry fro who knows where a literal kid could have wrote
>trusting people who gain on mysticism and attention for their town from this legend
Ho-oh just resurrected them as Raikou, Entei and Suicune, they never said those pokemon didn't already exist, Ho-oh just brought them back as those pokemon.
I don't know where people are getting that there's only 1 of each of them and they only exist cause of Ho-oh
So the ressurection meant nothing? They didn't change? Does it mean most beasts aer unrelated to Ho-Oh and not serve it?
The Johto three, THEY have a connection, as they were life removed creatures and Ho-Oh revived them, turning them into AN Entei, A Raikou and AS Suicune. Those in Kanto or other places, they don't have a connection, as they weren't killed in the fire at the burned tower (ie the three found in Kanto in FRLG, which happens three years prior to the revivification/awakening of the burned tower beasts).
It's all there in the fricking games and you c**ts just DON'T want to pay attention.
Ho-oh created them from the descendants of those Paradox Mons. Them being eeveelutions is your fanfic.
Maybe Ho-oh did the same thing with 3 dinosaurs millions of years ago that he also did with the dogs?
And they look the same because Ho-oh uses the same base forms every time?
look at their eyes
paradox forms are cats
Considering the base forms are a lion, leopard, and saber tooth tiger, of course the forms based on them would also be cats
They're from a timeline were these events happened much earlier. Or, Ho-oh has a habit of doing this.
Why don’t the other two have yellow eyes? It’s been bothering me for a while now
Same
I think it may be to show if they're carnivorous or herbivorous.
Walking Wake is the most creative. It looks distinct enough from Suicunne. This isn't the case with the other two.
factual
I actually couldn't help but like Walking Wake even despite being indifferent to Suicune, and think it's cool
not at all the case for Raging Bolt and Gouging Fire
The originals are cats and not dogs, and the new ones are paradoxes and not actually from the past.
As someone who doesn't go past Gen 7? They don't.
They are a species. Ho-Oh just created AN Entei, A Suicune and A Raikou.
There's many of them all over the world.
>if [HEADCANON]
>if ho-oh created the legendary dogs from [FANFIC FANFIC FANFIC FANFIC] when the tower burned a couple years ago
He turned them into them a long time ago. He just also gave them eternal life. The ones we know are just millions of years older
It's almost like the paradox entei suicune and raikou have no direct link with the originals except the appearrance. As if they were taken from some artist imaginatiuon complette with a fanfic background.
What an interesting paradox
>if ho-oh made beasts who made ancient beasts???
an ancient ho-oh??? are you moronic?
Paradox Ho-oh and Keldeo when?
Never ever, Keldeo is probably got killed by some shitmon in the future timeline.
seems like that the case for most of em
The modern legendary beats are made from the corpses of the ancient ones.
Would they even get along
Ho-Oh resurrected the fossils of ancient dinosaurs and turned them into the beasts we know. Simple enough. The eevee shit is headcanon.
The eevee shit was confirmed as headcanon in that one pokemon evolutions short in which you can actually see the silhouettes of the dogs burning to death inside the tower and they look nothing like eeveelutions
I love the way the future paradox timeline world is depicted
Someday, the devs need to allow players to experience the dino and robot worlds in a mainline game. The TCG artworks manage to tease both realms well through each glimpse the audience is granted, and depicts every dinomon and robotmon splendidly. Two really good ones that come to mind depict Iron Jugulis launching its remote-controlled drones, and Iron Moth firing its "legs"/darts.
Why? Kids don't care, normalgays don't care and Game afreak proved they don't give a shit about the wants of overly-invested manchildren. So why do they need to do what you want?
That's a really big tree
I feel like Suicune is the only one of them they fully comitted to making look like a proper dinosaur version. The other two just straight up have the exact same face as Raikou and Entei, they don't even have the yellow sclera.Entei is especially egrigious, they barely lean into the Dinosaur angle at all apart from the head creast.
I genuinely looks like they designed them as afterthoughts
how about this?
Better. Better. A hundred times better.
bad writing
retconned
They don't care
>Dogs
>Two are cats
>Two are cats
Yes? He says there two are a lion and tiger
>"after that I fell into a tiger-like design and a leopard-like design"
And coupled with Entei's lion-like design, that's three cats I count. So why did nursery school fail (You) so badly?
The legendary dogs existed before the burnt tower. Being made by ho-oh is just the creation myth for the region. They have ancient forms because they existed in the past.
They are beasts. Both cats and dogs fall under the umbrella term beasts. The paradox forms confirm this, you braindead turds
You morons are overthinking it, this is the correct answer
ho-oh's dino ancestor did it
the fake paradox suicune was drawn over 200 years before the events of scarlet and violet despite the legendary beasts supposedly only being created 150 years before gold and silver.
even if we're generous assume that gen 9 takes place 50 years after Gen 2 (which is extremely unlikely considering the fact that Clay's daughter is still a child and we know Gen 5 isn't much later than Gen 2) why would a random expedition team halfway across the world have enough knowledge of a newly created legendary pokemon that they're able to draw full-on fakemon inspired by it?
Either the drawing resembled the legendary beasts by complete coincidence, the legendary beasts existed before their supposed creation, or the third and most likely option: gamefreak is more than willing to throw away their continuity whenever they feel like it
I personally believe that the drawing influenced the way Ho oh resurrected them. First, it's easy to assume that Heath's book was very popular at its time, which was prior to the towers burning. Second, the drawing in that book contains elements of the original beasts that are not in the paradoxes. For example, Suicune's tail ribbons instead of Walking Wake's split tails that look way more like lizards'. The only possible explanation for this is that the sketch only saw glimpses of the paradoxes, and that that is the origin of those false features. Those false features then became inspiration to some extent for when they were reincarnated. This way both accounts can remain intact.
>ho oh is an avid reader of heath's books
based actually
It wouldn't even have to be. It's just that the people that lived at that time probably knew what the drawing looked like. It could even help to explain why the villagers shunned the beasts, as they believe Heath was a fraud at the time and that they should not have even existed, yet they did.
Stop being a dumb c**t.
maybe you should learn how to read
My apologies, stop being a DELUSIONAL dumb c**t. The paradoxes weren't fake, Heath's artist never got a clear look at them and thought they were all from the same being (they outright say he was inspired by what he saw. That doesn't preclude catching glimpses of the paradox trios, especially as it happened in both versions of the game, yet is pretty comprehensible when looked at from the future-facing storyline).
once again, learn how to read instead of jumping straight into screeching, you sperg
the only paradoxes that are explicitly, 100% confirmed to be fake are forms of the legendary beast and sword justice paradoxes that specifically appear in the journal. they are explicitly stated as the SOLE examples of paradoxes that were never witnessed by anyone and thus based entirely on the artistic interpretation of the person writing the journal
if anything, my post gives credence to the idea that of the paradoxes being real, since the facts in my post clearly establish that the legendary beasts had to have existed prior to their supposed creation
that said, the beasts were almost definitely not originally intended to have duplicates, it's definitely a change that was brought about later down the line to justify them showing up in more games
>flareon jolteon and vaporeon
fan fiction, just like paradox mons being from the actual past or future and not a different dimension.
They are counterparts from another time period, possibly a trio of dinosaurs that died on the sacrificial rock to the great sunbird.
It's a common trope
It was never confirmed to be Eeveelutions. You could just as easily theorize it was the Ancient Paradox trio, who died, and were resurrected as the OGs. Or, more likely, it’s an alternate universe’s legends.
they are LEGENDARY for a reason. they aren't actually god-beings, they're just absurdly rare and thus have legends associated with them.
that's why they're PARADOXES you fricking 'tard, the reveal being they're actually from different timelines' past and future, not our own.
They can't. They were created at a specific point in time, which weren't ancient times, from three animals/pokemon. They didn't exist before that point so they can't have ancient forms. The ancient forms are a not well thought out addition added just to pander to nostalgia. Which didn't work for me because I love Johto and hate the ancient forms. 1:18 in the video below shows what the beasts were created from and they do not resemble the ancient forms at all.
Don't see it as a species, but as a position or title, they are the heralds of Ho-Oh and possibly Ho-Oh has had several throughout history. Every time Ho-Oh brings a Pokemon back to life they acquire these characteristics, something similar to Ghost Rider, a Green Lantern, or even a Power Ranger, regardless of their species they just inherited the title.
Or are they just gay zombie animals and let's call it a day
Well for one, they're nature born Pokemon without Ho-Oh's influence. Humans made legends about a specific member of their species like with just about every other legendary Pokemon.
hu ho only created rainbow bird shit
literally the worst legendary
lugia is a million times better and he even got his own movie
Ho-oh created Entei, and even though it was an illusion, Entei's movie is the best Pokemon movie. Therefore he's better than Lugia, who's associated with 3 oversized chickens. Plus, in general the Legendary Beasts are the best legendary trio.
Side not I hope a.i Sada having a terrible time in dinosaur world and same for a.i Turo in robot world but most importantly I hope the originals are burning in Pokéhell
Pokemon lore is shit.
Simple as.
Each copy of the game is its own canon timeline and universe.
Every comic is canon, every anime/movie is canon.
You trade pokemon through time and dimensions with a link cable.
There's no hard timeline for pokemon because it simply doesn't exist. Unless they decided to make a timeline starting from scratch there never will be.
The only games that are direct sequels are GSC to yellow and BW2- to bw1
This. Also GS and DP take place at the same time as shown by the broadcast at the start of DP
This is a Zelda scenario dude. There is a timeline internally. They deliberately obfuscate it because they set every game in the near-future technology-wise (with regards to consumer electronics reflected in the games - the pokédex was based off PDA's and encyclopedias) and don't care to have an overt hard-chronological timespan (DPPt actually starts either mid-way through Ethan's Jobhto adventure to after it finished, due to Jubilife telly needing to send a crew out to make the report to briung back to air in Sinnoh. they'd already reported by the time they got there, the Red Gyarados was gone, indicating it got caught/calmed and TR stopped by then).
RGB/RSE > GS/DPPt > BW > BW2/XY > SM (canonically Red's 20 by this stage, which leaves about 9 years between RGB and SM) > SS >SV
they’re not FRICKING DOGS
Because it's time to stop caring about official pokemon. It's been shit for years.
Nothing past gen 5 is canon that's how
>ancient forms
Paradox arent actually from past and future, moron
They're imagination
>i-its all just imagination!!!
>the prof literally teleports to the past/future
why are imaginationbros so fricking moronic?
uhhhhhhhhh they just imagined the professor?????????
Gen 9 isn't canon. Its a moronic game with moronic plot set on a moronland.
It's a paradox. You'd think such things couldn't exist, but they do.
Besides, if you notice, the paradox mons are treated as completely distinct species with no relation to older mons besides outward appearances. Because there just isn't anything to go on besides urban legends reported in occult magazines, and some researcher's tale of creating a time machine under dubious circumstances.
If they aren't supposed to exist, then how DID they exist? This IS the question that has been bugging players since day 1, and yet even after two DLCs and an Epilogue, GF still haven't given us a good explanation yet.
>still "n-no u"ing in an attempt to get the last word
Yikes. I'm off to bed, feel free to bump this again in 12 hours to show how unbothered you are at being called a fricking idiot so.
get a room
Sleep well despite your hilarious seething.
kys moron
Kearny example
kino art
>purple
>purple
>red
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHGGG
Wow, it's quite the paradox isn't it?
>124 replies
>More than half of the posters are seriously debating and upset that PARADOX pokémon don't make sense with the established lore
GF is right with treating their fanbase like glue eaters
They do make sense with established lore though. They’re from other timelines.
[Citation needed]
I still think that all of the Scarlet Paradoxes come from the same timeline, "Sada's vision of the past", and all the Violet Paradoxes come from "Turo's vision of the future". and maybe there is a slight difference between them and their AI versions, which is why the second Koraidon was more aggressive.
>a single vague line explains everything!!!
This is why I hate glue-sniffing shills.
Nothing about it is vague. It's pretty explicit.
Ok but it comes from a previous version of the professor who didn't even bring in Paradoxes yet. How could you claim that they know where the paradoxes come from? We know from the rest of the game calling them ancient/future pokemon that that's what they are, and the professor fully knew this after the creation of the Time Machine anon. Why does in-game text only matter to you in certain times but not as a whole?
paradoxes are not from our timeline because a raptor ancestor of suicune or a long necked raikou is moronic along with a dinosaur magneton
paradox mons were a mistake
you morons really don't know what Paradox means do you?
Neither do GF
They were never Eeveeloutions to begin with - but at the same time, they most definitely weren't *those* things. The Paradox versions were ripped from an alternate universe and have an entirely different origin from the ones made by Ho-oh,
Why do people always bring up the "vague quadrupled animals that absolutely aren't meant to represent anything"?
Why do people always bring up the Eeveeloutions? There's nothing anywhere that even remotely suggests that's what they were - the only reason anyone even thought that was the case was because those were the choice Pokemon of the Kimono Girls in the dance hall, which means absolutely nothing.
Whatever Raikou, Entei and Suicune were, they were neither Eevees nor dinosaurs prior to their deaths in the tower.
A dinosaur Ho-Oh made these guys many years ago.