This. Why do you think you can't do anything these days or talk to/message anyone without having to go to some gay discord? It's because all social interaction is forced into there.
That's just a bullshit boogeyman. Most people are just playing the game for the game and are reacting as they would if you were in the room with them. If you do something cool or seem like a cool dude or there's a natural moment for conversation, most people will take you up on it, but no most of the time you aren't or it's just time to play the goddamn video game.
>If you do something cool or seem like a cool dude or there's a natural moment for conversation, most people will take you up on it,
Nah, I play WoW with a group on discord and they treat every other player like an NPC, it's come to the point where I have to constantly bring to attention when someone is talking with them because they don't even read the text chat.
>treat every other player like an NPC
Well they're playing overpriced theme park garbage, so their only mistake is to not consider themselves amongst those ranks
Part of the problem, and a problem now with any online community is that it is segmented further by the discord situation
But MMOs were going this direction for years before hand, it was just teamspeak and ventrilo sort of having that effect as well
Ultimately, the MMO experience became a single player experience in all but name, with the 'interactivity' now being some sort of hellish second life for trannies
That's just a bullshit boogeyman. Most people are just playing the game for the game and are reacting as they would if you were in the room with them. If you do something cool or seem like a cool dude or there's a natural moment for conversation, most people will take you up on it, but no most of the time you aren't or it's just time to play the goddamn video game.
This is cope from excluded losers. If you're on discord and don't see how it's a problem, it's because nobody likes you.
It's both discords and wikis.
Why interact with randoms in the game if you can just get all your friends in a secret exclusive invitation-only club?
Why work with strangers to accomplish a goal ingame that you need to look around for and figure out by word of mouth when 3 seconds in google will tell you?
What we need is a MMO that's ironically, not very popular. Something that has 10k players AT MOST.
I've played some obscure singleplayer games and there's zero fricking info about them online, and whatever community I found was filled with elitist asshats who didn't want to share the requirements for unlocking certain content or anything, but that's the kind of thing you need for a MMO.
There are lots of those dude lol I’m playing one right now
They always filter too many people and become harder and harder to play as a result due to economy issues
what we need is either a cloud mmo that can not be datamined(maybe the only actual good use of a cloud game atm, people put up with xiv's terrible server ticks anyway that makes moving out of stuff way harder than it should be) or a fully vr mmo where you can't google while in game.
Good point about MMO ping already being a problem anyway but with cloud gaming then even the graphics and sounds would start to lag or stutter.
That being said someone put his phone within my hand streaming a PS5 game and shit, it wasn't good enough but it was more impressive than i thought. Scary moment i tell you hwat.
it should be better with a real connection if he wasn't on wifi and was using mobile data instead. geforce now is pretty decent even right now if you live close to one of their hubs, the issue would be having hubs in key places so that people can play the game in an acceptable manner.
Every MMO like that I’ve ever seen inevitably has a small cabal of buttbuddies who monopolize everything of value.
If the game has land claims, they own all resources. If it has rare spawns, they’re perma-camped. God help you if there’s world PvP.
They also invariably have close ties to the mods, so they’re truly untouchable.
you had mIRC and later ventrillo back in the day and it didn't stop people from interacting
I think the move from lobbies to matchmaking + the newer generation that didn't experience the older era coming to the internet was a bigger blow
>its literally cool to act jaded and ignore everyone around you on community servers now because they know the foreground is on discord >meanwhile before, the server was the foreground and was bustling with life and funny people
Whatever flavor of the generation messenger is popular, that being discord currently.
The novelty of speaking to some random person online died off long ago. Online games now exist solely as real estate to keep you in their pay system.
Mumble, Teamspeak and dedicated guild forums did this long before Discord.
None of them, party chat killed consoles and discord killed PC.
personally my pc used to be shit and i used to only have one monitor. also chat software really wasn't that good before discord. skype and teamspeak in particular were godawful
being able to join a call and speak to other people isn't enough to be a good voice chat.
the UX of software like discord (even 2015 discord) is night and day vs teamspeak/vent (glorified IRC chat with mods)
irc as well. it's not the social systems at fault,it's the games themselves made to be easily soloable. played on an ffxi private server for a bit and everyone was super chatty because you still need players to do anything in that game and that includes even leveling up. you have to make friends to survive, if you don't you're fricked.
There's a reason why people rightfully cite dungeon finder as the moment where WoW died, you no longer had to do talk to anyone to do anything. Combined with server transfers making it so your server reputation didn't matter, it basically killed all social aspects of the game. If you let players get by without interacting with players, they will. Classic WoW had everyone talking with each other at the start but as soon as mages were able to boost peoples alts, that ended. There was no need to befriend that tank or healer so you can do more dungeons with them in the future.
They serve no other purpose, the whole point of mmos was to be social while playing games for nerds who only breathed games and tears, then videogames became mainstream and now mmos turned into another real life where only certain people get to have fun and if you don't know them you're shit out of luck.
Also the general rat race to any kind of end game, if you want the mmo experience you have to play during the early days of whatever mmo you find because the second it becomes popular it gets pozzed
Socialization moved on to Discord and Twitch
Extrovert gamers form groups on Twitch, introvert gamers watch the group and have a parasocial relation with them
Automated matchmaking basically killed 99% if MMO player interaction. You're in and out with a single press of a button and not a single word necessary. I guess the only "social" games are those in which you are actually forced to interact with others through text/chat like that Amogus game maybe?
This guy is onto something. "Quality of life" improvements are an invisible poison that kills all social interactions. Putting a party together requires social skills and will make players get close to one another, but that part is entirely skipped by auto-queuing to do anything.
Then there's the second part: What are you auto-queuing for? Usually a "raid" or "dungeon" that is actually just a piece of instanced content. That stuff has no business existing in MMO games. The whole point of these games is sharing a single game world but endgame activy in EVERY SINGLE MODERN MMO consists of queuing up for bite-sized, match-long instanced content with only a predetermined team of people. Absolutely soulless.
the worst thing about an open world with no instancing is the fact that homosexuals with bot accounts and no lives will camp all high value areas with impunity unless the admins actually do their jobs and tell them to frick off by force.
there is really no way to solve the problem one hundred percent and that's the shitty part
> homosexuals with bot accounts and no lives will camp all high value areas with impunity
Yes, this is how it should be. You play the game and get rewarded for it.
If you play the game more, you obviously you should have nicer thing.
And don't bring it up bots as if they were things only done by poopsockers. The people who bot are not the ones doing the hardest pieces of content.
that's cool but you are conveniently sidestepping my point about the game being ruined for everyone else and in turn justifying the existence of instanced content
you really don't need to look anywhere but WoW to see what happens when the loudest homosexuals get their way while the other 99% of the player base sits on the sidelines. if that's what you want then by all means, go play that.
This is why these threads are useless. Just imagine for a second, an MMO that rewards players for grouping up instead of punishing it. Imagine grinding some thing and another player shows up, and instead of getting angry because they're stealing your XP or kills, the game boosts your XP and droprate for every player that's near you.
>Imagine grinding some thing and another player shows up, and instead of getting angry because they're stealing your XP or kills, the game boosts your XP and droprate for every player that's near you.
timeless isle during MoP did this and it was wonderful. can't remember if it was implemented elsewhere in WoW as i stopped playing retail almost 8 years ago
This is why these threads are useless. Just imagine for a second, an MMO that rewards players for grouping up instead of punishing it. Imagine grinding some thing and another player shows up, and instead of getting angry because they're stealing your XP or kills, the game boosts your XP and droprate for every player that's near you.
Peak moron opinion. The reality is that without instanced content you just have subhuman nolifers ruining the game for everyone else, on top of being extremely limited on the types of content you can actually produce. The old school everything-is-in-the-world setup is untenable at scale and at odds with the existence of chinks and favela monkeys in the real world.
>everything-is-in-the-world setup is untenable at scale and at odds with the existence of chinks and favela monkeys in the real world
Skill issue. And if you can't put as much time as chinks and huemonkeys, you deserve to lose.
You're basically asking for design where effort doesn't reward you proportionately.
that's cool but you are conveniently sidestepping my point about the game being ruined for everyone else and in turn justifying the existence of instanced content
you really don't need to look anywhere but WoW to see what happens when the loudest homosexuals get their way while the other 99% of the player base sits on the sidelines. if that's what you want then by all means, go play that.
[...] >Imagine grinding some thing and another player shows up, and instead of getting angry because they're stealing your XP or kills, the game boosts your XP and droprate for every player that's near you.
timeless isle during MoP did this and it was wonderful. can't remember if it was implemented elsewhere in WoW as i stopped playing retail almost 8 years ago
Most players don't even get to reach things considered endgame, when things are done in oldschool MMO style. This too is another symptom of modern MMO design where everyone is rushed to level cap so they can join the instanced raid threadmill. Dogshit design on top of dogshit design.
And if you're going to bring up WoE history to justify anything, keep in mind that it all happened because the game already was instanced focused and endgame focused at that point.
A truly good MMO needs to be 100% sandbox, 100% open, no instances and reward players proportionately to their playtime, and the majority of players will never reach endgame.
>A truly good MMO needs to be 100% sandbox, 100% open, no instances and reward players proportionately to their playtime, and the majority of players will never reach endgame.
i disagree completely with the no instances point and the final point, otherwise sure
Honestly you and everyone else in this thread are the reason I leave Ganker today for the last time.
Absolute bottom tier opinions, you are regurgitating the same basic philosophy I came up with when I was a kid.
Everyone here is a zoomer, the discussion never improves, it just cycles and gets dumber
I've reached a point in my life where I have literally NOTHING to talk about to other people. All I do is go from home to work and back and don't interact with anyone.
It's a very casual sort of interaction, not comparable with real people or even deeper online dialogue.
It's all much easier when you're a box with text in it we can forget about.
It satisfies the urge to socialize at a basic level but it's enough and that's all.
>It satisfies the urge to socialize at a basic level but it's enough and that's all.
it does for me
Yes it's enough.
I don't even need it. Sometimes I just imagine conversations in my head and that's enough for me. Sometimes I even daydream about making a specific thead on here while at work, I imagine all of the replies, and then I'm already bored by socialisation by the time I get home and don't even bother. I legitimately don't get how loneliness can exist, I haven't had friends in a decade but I just permanently daydream conversations and I'm fine
Who cares about autism. You can cheer yourself up by making up friends who love you in your mind that say "you're so cool man, oh i dunno, no way i love being around you, me too man, oh you guys". You don't do this because you think it's silly but it works really well.
Oh it's not REAL real therefore it doesn't matter, well happiness won't rain on you either you dimwits. You're mistaken about refusing to foster imaginary friends.
By the way i meant the big You, not you in particular. This is a public discussion after all.
I like having other perspectives because I'm moronic and I have to acknowledge that. I don't often go out of my way for social interaction but when I do I enjoy hearing other people's perspectives and etc, and I like the feeling of learning something new or thinking about something I never came up with regardless of all the time in my head. Even if it's something moronic, I like to sit there and rationalize it.
>I just imagine conversations in my head and that's enough for me
i've always done that since i was a child, the probelm is that the other me who i usually had conversations with has developed his own counciousnes and constantly criticize and insults me, he used to be so cool but now i want him to frick off but he wont go away
>the other me who i usually had conversations with has developed his own counciousnes and constantly criticize and insults me
Same anon. He makes me super uncomfortable and won't let me be myself. I call him "my inner voice" and sometimes I just wish he'd frick off. >don't talk to that person you're ugly >they smiled in your direction? they're just relieved they're not as pathetic as you >remember that time when you punched your best friend square in the nose for no reason? why'd you do that? >why did you embarrass your father that one time while riding the elevator? have a nice day
7 months ago
Anonymous
I punched an innocent in the nose once to see how it felt to be mean. I didn't like it. He cried and all, he looked so betrayed.
7 months ago
Anonymous
7 months ago
Anonymous
that time when you punched your best friend square in the nose for no reason? why'd you do that?
I punched an innocent in the nose once to see how it felt to be mean. I didn't like it. He cried and all, he looked so betrayed.
>I punched an innocent in the nose once to see how it felt to be mean. I didn't like it. He cried and all, he looked so betrayed.
>I don't even need it. Sometimes I just imagine conversations in my head and that's enough for me. >I haven't had friends in a decade but I just permanently daydream conversations and I'm fine
Aren't you tired of constantly theorizing at some point? You never want to see the "potential" of the clash of imaginary/reality?
I'm better company than other people and especially other anons. Let me tell you about the threads i write, right funny threads, i know best how to play off my own jokes.
What's the context of this Miku pic anyway? Did she see something fricked up? Is she gaming and died unexpectedly? Is she doomscrolling and just now realized she's pissing her life away?
They are. You just have to accept that 99% of MMO populations should be avoided. >The hardcore elitist who thinks their mastery over a game with 3 input commands and ability to watch youtube guides makes them special >The "hardcore elitist" who thinks they carry everyone and hates every group they are in but suspiciously can't handle anything solo >The ERPer aka the megahomosexual who just wants to suck everyones dick through text message >The global/area/region chat users who are the definition of the shitstain of social interaction
I still make friends regularly in the MMOs I play. The secret is to recognize when you're around people like yourself. Don't go looking for friends, but have a need for social interaction lead you into a situation where you're being more social. If you're good at what you do, people will want to play with you, and if you're a cool dude, those people will realize they just want to be around you.
>You just have to accept that 99% of MMO populations should be avoided.
This is what's wild to me
When i was young and played WoW i fell in mostly with chill older people, and those people don't seem to exist online anymore. It's just always-online frickup degenerates with a chip on their shoulder now
Thats because people treat these games so personally like its their identity, to the point they want to kill themselves if you say anything bad about the developer. Before it was a fun game to older people to pass the time on and just have fun with, but nowadays people look to making themselves seem more important with the hours they spend in the game.
Well no wonder they treat MMOs more personally like it's their identity think about it. Witness the words MMO players use to speak about MMOs.
It's society time, society time for anon.
Society always shows up when humans spend a lot of time together in one place and with it, culture, memes(original definition), ways, behavioral rulesets then history and so a shared memory therefore an identity. In this way long lived multiplayer games are different than common multiplayer games because of the years worth of time their players spend within a systemic framework. An MMO community resembles a people more than a hobby group so it's normal for the connection to be deep or personal.
Some kids were even raised within some online society or another so imagine the weight that has upon their thinking patterns.
This topic may go on. We live in a sausage.
Once upon a time the people who played MMOs weren't obsessively watching thousands of hours of it on Twitch so everyone acts like they're pros and less like they're dicking around. This has also made the minimum standard of competency ridiculous.
Just saying people obsessing consuming content about MMOs rather than playing them has made the experience way less enjoyable. Way different compared to how playing WoW was in the beginning where generally your experience was your own gameplay or watching your friend so the floor for competence was pretty low. Now you're literally expected to have perfect rotations on even a casual raid and you're expected to have everything memorized even if it's your first time. Way different from the time when 80% of the people have never done WC before. Now everyone knows the skip and expects you to know the skip.
If I make a casual friend and I found out it's a woman I usually stop talking to them, cause I know how their minds work and they can report you and the companies fricking listen to them. No matter how mad a guy gets he won't report you for anything.
and if he does nobody cares cause he has no vegana
I played ff11 back in the day, you could not even alt tab out of the game so you were 100% locked into the game. This meant you talked to people during down time, everyone made friends even if you were an autistic loner, anti social freak.
People managed to even suck the fun out of that.
People playing that game rival the fricking Left 4 Dead autists with the amount of sterile metahomosexualry going on there.
Phasmophobia was at it's best when it had those 20-100 player servers, legitimately some of the most fun I've had in a multiplayer game in years. Too bad it was so short lived, like under a week, because the mod creator and server host didn't like how racist everyone was lol
>Systemize every form of emergent gameplay and required social interaction that has taken place in actual social MMOs since ultima. >Add discord to the mix >Surprised when no social interaction.
Modern MMOs suffer from a shitty design philosophy. The goal of every major MMO is to quickly reach max level and grind for gear, so that you can explore the "endgame content" while you wait for updates. There's no reason to roleplay or interact with other players, you just have to complete your chore as fast as possible.
The best MMOs were those without a well defined concept of endgame, or a railroad to guide you to some destination envisioned by the devs, such as Runescape back in the early 2000s.
Runescape was always weird how some skills "ran out of content" as early as level 70 or so. It felt dumb, but on hindsight it was probably good design because it was a way of telling you that there's no "endgame" to go for.
Multiplayer games with community servers.
MMOs as a genre are dead and the only people still trying to latch on to them are autists who are obsessed with number go up.
MMOs are still the place to be social, you're just playing the wrong ones or playing each one wrong.
Stop expecting randoms you grouped up with via party finder to be social. Chat with people on global. Play private servers. Play different MMOs and get a feel for the variety of depth of different communities. Stop being mired in the past and expecting things to be like they used to be.
As someone who semi-regularly plays a small scale community-made MMO that has a Discord, only about half of all interaction is via the Discord. You see the people chatting in both places and the stuff discussed is much the same in both places, with the major difference being you can go back and read the stuff posted on Discord, unlike chat logs.
>but look at this advantage discord has!
Not relevant. If you meet in discord and play only with your discord circlejek, it's not a social MMO. You're basically creating your own enclosed bubble and treating it as a regular multiplayer game, same as singleplayer homosexuals treating MMOs as singleplayer games.
An MMO is only social if you have social interactions with people that you meet in the game.
I didn't say it was an advantage, I said it was a difference.
I don't meet in Discord.
I don't only play with people from the Discord, a handful of people aren't in it and I interact with them the same as all the others.
You're a moron who is so desperate to "prove" himself right that you aren't even reading what I say.
They're children, Anon. They've never experienced "dial-up." Heck, they've probably never had a "sleepover" or even gone "camping." >Leave my house??? To do WHAT? No way, grandpa. >Now stop talking at me; you're distracting me from my gacha
Because everything is easily accessible.Back when no one said shit and you had to actually TALK to figure shit out or even figure out basic hud elements, you were forced to talk to others to figure that shit out. Boom, instant connection. Nowadays, there's mods, websites, discords, forums, and everything, so you don't need to talk to other people. The need to make a connection isn't there, so nobody will make the connection. There's no reason to talk, so why talk? Was it perfect? Frick no, but it led to dedicated people who actually gave a shit.
Thousands of threads about the topic of declining MMOs trying to uncover the culprit. Each post goes with it's own explanation and the same things keep coming up. I think this board has figured it out, it's got every facet of the problem covered.
A point don't see as often, it's mine:
There isn't that many people who are interested in the kind of MMOrpg mechanics we yearn for.
My ass says between 500.000 and one million videogame players desire to involve themselves in living online adventures with others in a fantasy world regularly. Those were roughly the numbers of players MMOrpgs would get before WoW and WoW wrecked the genre.
I don't think it's possible to have a very successful MMOrpg. If the game draws in more than a million players then it means the game was already constructed wrong.
>There isn't that many people who are interested in the kind of MMOrpg mechanics we yearn for.
No, there are. However the issue is that long term character and account progression is now also a key feature in most mobile games and those can be played anywhere, at any time, and you can pay to skip the grind if you're now a busy adult that grew up playing MMOs. Mobile games cannibalized the MMO market and that's why so many of them have guilds and other social systems, some even have events the guilds do together. Theorycrafting is big in those games too, the market basically shifted and proper MMOs are now mostly for raiding neets and women wanting to play second life with better graphics. Old school MMOs were often about chasing rare drops too, which gacha has covered. It's like how RTS was basically replaced by MOBAs.
adding to this, several lobby/instanced-based games have replaced MMOs for some people depending on what they want (e.g. pvpers wanting to gank underleveled lowbies moving to mobas)
adding to this, several lobby/instanced-based games have replaced MMOs for some people depending on what they want (e.g. pvpers wanting to gank underleveled lowbies moving to mobas)
These games you described have taken from the share of players who didn't enjoy older MMOs' tenets and wouldn't enjoy them today, the players who make the MMO game go past the million subscriber mark.
I told you my ass why speaking. It's time to listen to my ass.
I feel that way but it feels like I'm in the minority since I didn't grow up with MMOs and can only speculate on the concepts. I love the idea of stripping a lot of options from the player and making the game extremely inconvenient and unintuitive. Even playing modern ffxi gave me the feeling of how dangerous and punishing it is to die, without being actually hard or difficult. It really makes the preparation and adventure and commitment palpable, whereas my only other example with ffxiv I don't really get immerses at all because the only sense of adventure is exclusively when the game tells you thats how you should feel. In terms of actual feeling I've never gotten lost, everything is given to me immediately, nothing is punishing, and itbjust focuses on nothing but the purest of pure numerical values. This is good for a wide audience because then commitment doesn't have to exist and you don't need to care even a little to feel accomplished. It's bad for genuine interactivity though, and makes the social aspect extremely pointless and degenerate.
Inconvenience is a great thing in a game. Imagine how convenient it would be to pick up the golf ball, run to hole and shove it in but then, there would be no golf game.
Any game is created by putting restrictions on actions, inconveniences are the molecules of a game.
Get bent conveniencegays.
On another note. In FFXIV the natural flow of gameplay, the path of least resistance for a play session, drives players apart. Encourages everyone to disperse as soon as any group activity is accomplished.
This MMO not only makes no effort to bring players together it actively explodes groups apart at the first opportunity.
As for adventure. It can not happen without danger + mystery. An FPS requires gun + first person, an adventure game requires dangerous situations for the player and things the player doesn't know. I have the feeling there's a third pillar to adventure but i can't make it out.
>In FFXIV the natural flow of gameplay, the path of least resistance for a play session, drives players apart. Encourages everyone to disperse as soon as any group activity is accomplished.
I haven’t played it, what do you mean? What encourages this?
It's often said in the threads. That too many activities are solo and not just the quests, it's the problem and it's simple.
Everyone has their character, there are a million things to collect and many paths of progress for the character. All of it is progress for your character but almost nothing is shared progress, hardly any items can be sold or shared and progress that may affect your friends is more easily achieved with not-your-friends who are readily available through the various auto queues.
Group play does happen of course but it requires a small effort when it shouldn't, i'll give a typical example, it's an unnatural situation to play together and it's why i wrote that the gameplay's flow encourages dispersion.
You want to group up in order to search for treasure maps so you tell all your friends "lets do this together now". One of them is crafting, one of them is running trials, another is working on his relic right now, someone else is doing sidequests, the last one is doing his daily roulette (already a potential point of failure for the group) but all of them are excited enough to drop what they're doing to come into your group. Awesome. The group activity begins. Each member runs out of maps, the group activity is effectively concluded.
Is the group going to stay together next? Unlikely as everyone was busy before, it's been an hour, they need to get back to it and there is no benefit to staying in a group at this point. Party's over. Everyone drives home.
Same for raiding even between good friends. This is the pattern.
A selfish player is fashioned out of such a play environment.
Most people in these threads are WoW babies who grew up and just want to be young again and play WoW, you can't use them as an indication of what's wrong with MMOs nor how to fix them.
Then everyone is a wowbab and we can't listen to anyone so we can't figure anything out. Great.
There are posters who didn't play MMOs back then, who skipped them and regret it now. Some babs weren't born 30 years ago and they yearn for old MMOs anyway because gramps told them wonderful sappy stories online. This is not nostalgia, it's a genuine desire for videogame multiplayer adventures in the future.
>Then everyone is a wowbab and we can't listen to anyone so we can't figure anything out
Yes. The only way games have ever gotten better is by some genius making an amazing game. Listening to people has never resulted in anything good. There's so many things you could do to make MMOs way better than anything we've seen, but you rarely hear those kinds of ideas in these threads.
It's like the story about the iPhone: if Steve Jobs asked people what they wanted out of new phones, they would've said something along the lines of "better ringtones". He wouldn't have changed phones forever if he had just listened to what people want.
Man that 3rd frame took me back to FFXI in 2002. You'd kill a few EXP mobs then your mages would be out of MP and everyone needed to sit around and just /rest before you could pull another one. That MP ticked up so slowly you'd actually have enough time to have a conversation between each pull. Scrolls to learn Mage's Ballad and Refresh were so rare too back then, so even if you had a Bard or a Red Mage in the party there was no guarantee that actually had them so most of the time everyone just /rest'd between pulls which was kinda a way to force social interaction.
Even old WoW had that. You had food and drink but it wasn’t exactly speedy. My dad, bless him, still plays retail WoW for some unfathomable reason, and the recovery is practically instant.
It served as a bit of a mandatory breather, now it’s all go go go.
this but unironically
I actively avoid playing mmos in guilds these days unless I actually need a group for something specific.
Even then, a lot of "gameplay-focused guilds" wind up getting into a bunch of dramatic bullshit. I'd rather just find a discord for raiding or whatever content and just do that if in-game pubs are terrible.
The desire for online fantasy worlds full of adventures with others has never been higher than during the last decade and yet MMOrpgs finished dying at the same time. Even FFXIV despite its rising popularity, never made the internet stop clamoring for some mythical old style game. The clamors have grown louder.
D&D is more popular than ever. Everyone cries about MMOs while desperately playing each new one. We're ravenous for adventure and deep bonds.
The MMO has died but not the MMO hype, not at all, not the fantasy of the digital world, no. The dream is burning. Everyone want to escape even harder than they did around 2000.
>D&D is more popular than ever. Everyone cries about MMOs while desperately playing each new one. We're ravenous for adventure and deep bonds.
The damage that Rotations have done to MMORPGs cannot be understated
This is completely false. We saw it with the release of WoW classic in 2019 - everyone has a great time leveling but as soon as people hit max level there was a universal drive for metagaming and farming out BiS gear to trivialize content that was already easy 20 years ago.
There's been a definitive shift in videogame culture towards hyperoptimized metagaming and it has very little to do with the game itself or the people who play it, as strange as that sounds. It's more of an uncontrollable, amorphous change.
No matter what MMO comes out, no matter what its mechanics are, the times of mysterious discovery are over and have been replaced with dissected, analyzed, and regurgitated builds and strategies.
The isekai boom. The survival and crafting boom. Genshin, ffxiv, old school runescape, wow classic itself, ffxi gaining subscriptions. People want that shit.
And every single one of those has had its soul optimized right out of it. Why the frick would you even mention OSRS when most people who play it use it as an idle game to increase numbers in?
You're besides my point, we're not getting each other.
My people is that players demand these things and play these things. After that if the games get ruined then they stop playing and fall into the despair you see everytime the MMO genre is mentioned. This can be seen beyond Ganker, it's bigger than us 121 fools.
Its only a fraction of the problem and im tired of pretending its the main cause. The current MM environment tainted social interaction and made it commonplace to burn through people like its nothing. Games are removing further chat features in place of quick chat options was a double edge. Discord only made it so if people wanted to connect further they could, it also dosent help MMO chats can be clunky and outdated itself. Blame the companies for not wanting to have organic communication and sticking people in the same skinnerbox rather than a app that tries to solve a problem
Public chats have become more sterile as well and everyone feels it.
Used to be rules were effectively: >Don’t say Black person in global or you’ll get muted for a few days >Use your ignore list
MMOs in the past tried to be immersive and evoke a sense of adventure in a big world full of other people. Over time they evolved into pavlovian treadmills for the ultra addicted who would rather have a second job than an adventure or - god forbid - a social interaction. And this is really just a microcosm of modern gaming with its battlepasses and such, not unique to MMOs at all. People these days yearn for "the grind", they want to be dripfed "content". That's why you'll hear people say things like "what's the point of playing this game" when they feel like they aren't on a treadmill. The concept of a game being fun to play and that being the point is abhorrent to them.
If MMOs gave more of a reason to interact with people it would happen more. But they're basically single player RPGs with an occasional multiplayer component. Remember how in FFXI you needed a party to level, a basic need in games? People chatted a lot there. Most games actively punish you for partying outside of dungeons these days.
Here's a question for everyone: how would you deter or trick the addicted singleplayer grinding homosexuals so they won't infest your game?
For example you could have a "heroic" title that gets attached to your character if you do certain things. You could add endgame themepark raids that drop OP endgame gear, if you go to that raid or equip the items from it, your character becomes permanently "heroic". Heroic items are stronger than all other items, but you can't equip them without getting the "heroic" mark of shame on your character. All other items are worse, so people who do heroic content would stay away from the rest of the game.
because MMOs aren't about the hard content no matter how much WoW has tried to steer people into thinking that way.
People claim discord. While being a detriment, that's not the real problem. The number one biggest problem is the stifling of speech. No one talks anymore because even a nonchalant comment will get you suspended or banned. This is one of the reasons discord is so big now too. I could call someone moron in game and get punished for it or I could say my party is a moronic in discord to friends and be ok.
The second biggest reason is the inclusion of party/group finders and matchmaking. Why talk to people when you can push a button? Why join a lobby when you can push a button?
also this, and i'll inb4 the stupid "just don't say Black person" boogeyman because that isn't the issue. powertripping Black folk will mute, ban, harass, and abuse you with their status for any reason whatsoever. and that problem is made exponentially worse with ever more draconic automatic bans, mutes, filters, and so on. who the frick would want to put up with that when they can just use an alternative chat with no consequences?
The design goal of an MMO should be to create content that is engaging for a coordinated group of players in order to facilitate player interaction I don’t see why that is controversial
i think the perfect compromise is world events anyone can hop in and out of if they so choose to. kind of like the FATEs from XIV. now the only issue is to make your world lively and engaging enough for people to constantly want to be running around in it and doing said world events
7 months ago
Anonymous
Fates are pretty cool but I never see anyone doing them. I always just end up either ignoring them or AoEing down the enemies in it.
7 months ago
Anonymous
that's where the "interesting" world thing comes into play, XIV's most fatal flaw is how antisocial it is outside of a few key areas
7 months ago
Anonymous
It doesn't help that the MSQs are single player only. If there was content for small parties it'd be cool. Pal around with your friend as he does his MSQs for some extra XP or something.
A friend of mine was thinking of playing it with me and I told him pretty much that. There's nothing for friends to do together outside of just queing for dungeons together.
7 months ago
Anonymous
there's shit like the deep dungeons, bozja, and eureka, but even then they're a pain in the dick to get through at a meaningful pace. which is fine if you're doing it with friends, good luck otherwise
7 months ago
Anonymous
I wish more people were like you in that regard. A friend of mine got me and 3 other friends to start FFXIV at one point. Would've been nice to know that us "playing together" was actually going to be him driving us around occasionally to click on NPCs, and otherwise just reading in silence or doing solo questing.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I'm looking forward to Dawntrail's story, but I'm not looking forward to playing through it.
Anons, i have a dream, the dream that we can, as we are masdive contrarians, make a new MMO together, by going actively against the incestous trends for the genre and by being inspired once more from other types of games, but for this dreamed game we need some things that are increibly hard to get, especially here in 5chin, we need unity (the value, not the engine), we could need a leader that brings us together and, lastly but not less important, we need passion, while easy to get, its hard to maintain.
Also, a plan of actions and a way to gather and inspire drawgays and writegays, if not even create and cultivate them on our own.
that the deal, our current society has memed everyone that isnt an artist or programmer to think that its an unlearnable set of abilities that you have to be born with or chosen by some god of sorts, but thats the thing, we have people, we are people! even this is indeed a barren hell website, can create shit if we propose yourselves to, even if we dont know how to now, we can learn to, and FRICK, do we need a homie that knows how to make mmos? i already said to go against incestous trends, what could he do, the netcode?
The people who were made to create hang out in the gamedev threads and they have their hands full working on their own games. If you wanna make an MMO I'll cheer for you, I'll be here waiting 5 years from now after you've learned a useful skill besides ideas.
People claim discord. While being a detriment, that's not the real problem. The number one biggest problem is the stifling of speech. No one talks anymore because even a nonchalant comment will get you suspended or banned. This is one of the reasons discord is so big now too. I could call someone moron in game and get punished for it or I could say my party is a moronic in discord to friends and be ok.
The second biggest reason is the inclusion of party/group finders and matchmaking. Why talk to people when you can push a button? Why join a lobby when you can push a button?
there are people who are socially active and then there are people who just like being a fricking attention starved obnoxious butthole
the guy who drew that was probably the latter and that's why he ends up alone
Having friends and a decent guild is the most powerful thing to have in a full-loot PvP MMO. Random players from a Groupfinder would only backstab you.
If you want to make friends/enemies play MMOs like Eve or Albion.
There are a lot of MMOs out there with players in the hundreds instead of 10s of thousands. Those are the ones where people still talk to each other and are largely playing FOR the social aspect.
>Become friends with online randos that I'll never meet irl >Have fun talking every day >They want to share selfies and know what I look like
Why are they like this...
Played WoW for almost two decades. Haven't meet a new person for last 8 years. Somewhere along the line the community got so beyond toxic and elitist that I don't even want to interact with them.
>where are you from?
From shut the frick up, it's north of Black person and next to not your fricking business. Just play the fricking game. I'm not here to make friends in a random PUG. Frick off.
They aren't THE game for social interactions, but they're still a medium for it. You just need to use them as such.
Consider riding a train or walking in the park. Other people are there, you can talk to them, meet people, make friends, but a lot of people don't. And while a lot of modern systems in MMOs are damaging to the social aspect, it's damaging in the sense that it makes it optional.
You just have to choose to use the social aspects.
Niche games, old games, and fan projects. Hop into a dedicated server for Quake 3, CS:S, Project Reality and you'll find regulars and clans. Hop on Turtle WoW or City of Heroes Homecoming and you'll find a community that won't quit. Hop in Hellgate 2038 and you'll find a bunch of people who just won't give up on their old, busted ass video game. Join a clan for Arma 3 or Squad or Insurgency if you can match the /k/ autism. CoD, Fortnite, Battlefield, all this shit is no place to make friends anymore. You have to find a place where people are, come regularly, and stay.
>Turtle WoW & CoH Homecoming
On that note, RP servers are great places for community if you can manage to not be an butthole and buy into the premise. Serious RP guilds and shit are a great place to make friends in and outside of the game.
do not tell these fricking people to come shit up private rp servers. theyre all coomers who are only interested in erp or making lewacky characters that'll make things worse
>be fat gross frick >act cute >other gross frick joins friend circle >acts cute >i can hear the fat in his voice >silently fail to give any indication that i like him being here >smell of unwholesomeness slowly permeates the group >probably just wanted to make friends and be cute for once >continue to grow fatter
>Be turbo autismo that never leaves the house or socializes since high school and even then I didn't >Get offered well paid position at bar just to be a cashier >girls constantly ask for my instagram >They get offended when I say I don't have one
I could entertain the idea of no levels but no loot whatsoever? How would that work?
The entire thing that keeps people coming back is a sense of progression. Without items and levels, what are you progressing?
Most people are legitimately too stupid for me to even tolerate extended interaction with. I haven't actually talked or "socialized" with another person since my dad died in 2019
I feel you anon, even once you get passed the purposefully inane "small talk" it seems no one has anything rattling in their heads.
If you even bring up anything that could be thought of as "conflict" too they then get personally offended and act like you're attacking them as people.
What happened to friendly discourse? It seems like you can't disagree with anyone anymore without them b***hing a fit in the most intellectually disabled way.
Don't people get tired of constantly talking about "safe things" that make them happy? Doesn't it get boring to loop the same general theme of conversation for years? I don't fricking get it.
The secret is the economy, money.
It's somehow been accepted that if players are allowed to sell every item then a few players will do all the content and the rest will not run content but this is false because to buy their stuff, the other players will need money and therefore will run content.
Every NPC service should cost gold and not a little, no hand outs.
By balancing how the money is created, where, in which amounts, devs could spread the players the gameworld over searching for coin. The mere idea of money has a peculiar allure.
If it makes our world go round then it will make the MMO world go round. >farm bots >kill them irl >fraud circles >jail >con men >it's a social activity >market manipulators >more like officious community managers
Make a game with a limited amount of money available on the server. Give it some regulations, like you can't just hoard all the money and log off forever. Make it so you're taxed, moreso when offline. Naturally this will lead to a small group of players with the most money. Then you can witness class war, it'll be a great social experiment.
It's right. Why do players never seem to engage enough with the MMO world? Never taking it seriously enough, never getting an RP job or focusing on one discipline, never forming deep bonds with each other, families even, never walking, never sleeping in the beds or sitting on the benches or putting on different clothes?
Because they think they can log off. If you want to save the MMO genre then get the players really playing.
- player raidlogging. Can't log in if they're not logged out.
- player acting like an ass. Can't escape.
- playerbase dwindling. Can't.
- player bored. Only thing to do is play the game.
Online interaction is dead.
Used to be not that much different from the average Ganker discourse with bantz and shit-flinging, but now everyone is a soft snowflake and constantly on edge, offended by the littlest things.
Many games now come with a "mute all" feature because normies comprise the majority and must be protected as the holy cash cows they are.
Just another in the long list of things they ruined with their mere presence on the internet.
I've had a lot of pretty chill conversations while playing Hell Let Loose. There's always the occasional super try hard who treats the game too seriously and lately there are a depressing amount of people who just don't talk at all, but mostly it's full of pretty cool dudes who you can shoot the shit with in the downtime between firefights.
I think one of the problems, at least in an MMOs, is the lack of downtime (by design). Everything is just GOGOGO to the next queue, to the next fight, to the next part of the dungeon.... There's to many checkboxes to tick, to many dailies, and not enough time to actually stop and socialize. Playing through an early dungeon in wow like deadmines is great, even in 2023 because you have to be methodical to not pull the entire dungeon and take rests to heal up, since playe's kits are still very basic. That gives you time to engage with people. In FFXIV for example every dungeon is just wall to wall pulls and then a boss. There's not a second to type anything on the chat.
Typing in between GCDs is possible but there's no reason to type anything because there's no decision to take.
Even though Eureka wasn't so great about downtimes and was nowhere close to some slow grouping experience, there were decisions to make within a party on where to go next or what activity to focus on so it played its little part in getting our groups to interact more than usual.
Man Pagos was fun i tell you. And, everybody, hated it.
I'm playing eureka now and I'm enjoying playing in an actually dangerous overworld.
My best memory of Nostalrius was how much effort it took just to do Deadmines. I had forgotten so much.
I played classic when it came out and leveling with random people and running low level dungeons again after so many years was so fun. Then you get to max level and you start running the same thing over and over again because you need a specific piece of armor and it never drops and it stops being fun.
Do I have to use voicechat? The op obviously had competent teammates and won the game. Thats all that matters. Dont force people into doing stuff thats not important to the game. If you want to talk so badly use Discord.
So to summarize, OP is mad that random people don't chat with them in dungeons or in the game? Kek, I never talk to other players in the dungeon party, feels weird. I also don't go out of my way to just start talking with people randomly in some city/hub. I don't know why, just don't. It's almost like I have social anxiety and awkwardness INSIDE the MMO, which is pretty bad when you think about it. I can't even interact or talk to people in a video game.
Bring back noncombatant support classes and away with instanced content. I want to be injured exploring a dungeon and have to make my way back to the nearest medic camp to have my wounds tended to.
>noncombat support classes
hard agree. life skillers should be an entire class branch of their own instead of just lazily being menus.
Ideally, crafters would have some barebones combat skills (so they aren't completely fricked out in the wild) and the rest of their mechanics dedicated to resource gathering and making items off of those resources + monster drops. >removed instanced content
instanced content has a time and a place. major boss fights, story quests, certain parts of chain quests, etc.
it can be good when used well, the problem is that devs just make fricking everything be instanced with an instant teleporting queue.
Yeah you put it better than me, instanced stuff is fine in certain situations. Also make traveling important again. Keep fast traveling tied to hiring a carriage or airship at specific locations, and players ability to personally fast travel to the use of expensive items or spells.
I held onto that pipe dream of the online adventure for 8 god damn years. People just aren't like that, who the frick wants to smell the flowers in an MMO.
One time i dressed like a pirate, stood on a crate at a port and started advertising >loot from the isles, up for grabs, open a trade window if ye dare
And i gave out all kinds of items, players would walk up to me like kids at the candy stall, receive a trinket and say thanks.
Was fricking fun but how the hell would you convince someone else to do something like that, huh? There's like dungeons to run or whatever. It would be wasted playtime.
Not reading this thread but let me guess >morons who can't socialize with others demand all QoL improvements get deleted so they are forced to talk to you (just to say lfg, cool, bye)
Of course dood
But you also forgot "the end game content you can't auto party for doesn't matter since I don't care about it, only leveling counts as content and if you do raids you're a troony"
I'll never understand these "people"
even as a turbo autist, I've never had trouble getting people to talk and socialize in mmos. it's easy as piss, just going to any server chat and going >alienware hue hue hue
instantly gets things going
A fricking 20yo or some shit does not play ffxi or wow on a private server seeking over-optimization. He's looking to live the old tales for himself. Fortnite as well was like an MMO, it sure was persistent like one and living as well. MMOrpgs are dead but the idea of them and not the want for them.
It was a persistent central universe across the matches with stories and updates. Your view of the term is too narrow. It was a community-world-setting changing through time with lore and happenings. It wasn't like counter strike or even team fortress. Why am i talking about fortnite again? It's 3 fricking am. Frick off Ganker.
discord and it's consequences
This. Why do you think you can't do anything these days or talk to/message anyone without having to go to some gay discord? It's because all social interaction is forced into there.
That's just a bullshit boogeyman. Most people are just playing the game for the game and are reacting as they would if you were in the room with them. If you do something cool or seem like a cool dude or there's a natural moment for conversation, most people will take you up on it, but no most of the time you aren't or it's just time to play the goddamn video game.
>If you do something cool or seem like a cool dude or there's a natural moment for conversation, most people will take you up on it,
Nah, I play WoW with a group on discord and they treat every other player like an NPC, it's come to the point where I have to constantly bring to attention when someone is talking with them because they don't even read the text chat.
>treat every other player like an NPC
Well they're playing overpriced theme park garbage, so their only mistake is to not consider themselves amongst those ranks
Part of the problem, and a problem now with any online community is that it is segmented further by the discord situation
But MMOs were going this direction for years before hand, it was just teamspeak and ventrilo sort of having that effect as well
Ultimately, the MMO experience became a single player experience in all but name, with the 'interactivity' now being some sort of hellish second life for trannies
boomer boogeyman
This is cope from excluded losers. If you're on discord and don't see how it's a problem, it's because nobody likes you.
It's both discords and wikis.
Why interact with randoms in the game if you can just get all your friends in a secret exclusive invitation-only club?
Why work with strangers to accomplish a goal ingame that you need to look around for and figure out by word of mouth when 3 seconds in google will tell you?
What we need is a MMO that's ironically, not very popular. Something that has 10k players AT MOST.
I've played some obscure singleplayer games and there's zero fricking info about them online, and whatever community I found was filled with elitist asshats who didn't want to share the requirements for unlocking certain content or anything, but that's the kind of thing you need for a MMO.
There are lots of those dude lol I’m playing one right now
They always filter too many people and become harder and harder to play as a result due to economy issues
what we need is either a cloud mmo that can not be datamined(maybe the only actual good use of a cloud game atm, people put up with xiv's terrible server ticks anyway that makes moving out of stuff way harder than it should be) or a fully vr mmo where you can't google while in game.
Good point about MMO ping already being a problem anyway but with cloud gaming then even the graphics and sounds would start to lag or stutter.
That being said someone put his phone within my hand streaming a PS5 game and shit, it wasn't good enough but it was more impressive than i thought. Scary moment i tell you hwat.
it should be better with a real connection if he wasn't on wifi and was using mobile data instead. geforce now is pretty decent even right now if you live close to one of their hubs, the issue would be having hubs in key places so that people can play the game in an acceptable manner.
It can grow up to 250k and even 500k players while retaining its obscure nature. No larger.
Every MMO like that I’ve ever seen inevitably has a small cabal of buttbuddies who monopolize everything of value.
If the game has land claims, they own all resources. If it has rare spawns, they’re perma-camped. God help you if there’s world PvP.
They also invariably have close ties to the mods, so they’re truly untouchable.
We live in a society.
ah so it's just like real life then. jokes on them though, i won the housing lottery in ff14 today
fippy bippy. literally ruined everything. now all people do is hang out in discord talking to the same people they always do
you had mIRC and later ventrillo back in the day and it didn't stop people from interacting
I think the move from lobbies to matchmaking + the newer generation that didn't experience the older era coming to the internet was a bigger blow
>you had mIRC and later ventrillo back in the day and it didn't stop people from interacting
Ease of access is a real game-changer though
I was ignoring pubs since like 2009. Ventrilll, teamspeak, mumble, Skype. All programs designed to free me from disgusting public players.
you will die and become the same dirt as everyone else, you pretentious homosexual, at least say thanks after a run.
this, fricking casuals
stfu homosexual, cry moar. and gitgud so i dont have to carry so hard.
FPBP
External chat clients rendered communicating in games obsolete. Now it's just annoying to deal with randoms instead of necessary.
>you have been kicked from the guild
>reason: not on discord
Have fun typing and slowing everyone down somewhere else.
>going to college late because tired of shit job
>get group work assigned
>zoomer classmates asks me for my discord
>refuses to believe I dont use it
Same but whatsapp
how do people communicate with you? fax strictly during business hours?
>how do people communicate with you?
they don't
>its literally cool to act jaded and ignore everyone around you on community servers now because they know the foreground is on discord
>meanwhile before, the server was the foreground and was bustling with life and funny people
>funny people
the same five obnoxious Black folk spamming their nonsense in global chat were never funny. now they just shit up public discord groups
its*
yore right, it IS consequences
Whatever flavor of the generation messenger is popular, that being discord currently.
The novelty of speaking to some random person online died off long ago. Online games now exist solely as real estate to keep you in their pay system.
co-op games like DRG
Roblox, Minecraft and Source games.
None of them, party chat killed consoles and discord killed PC.
Mumble, Teamspeak and dedicated guild forums did this long before Discord.
no, those were incredibly niche compared to how widespread chat software is today
I miss when discord was as niche like mumble, teamspeak and smaller than Skype.
Also frick modern Skype especially for murdering MSN.
personally my pc used to be shit and i used to only have one monitor. also chat software really wasn't that good before discord. skype and teamspeak in particular were godawful
>chat software waa'sn't good before discord.
mumble, teamspeak, ventrillo, and even curse gaming all had fine voice chat you fricking luddite
being able to join a call and speak to other people isn't enough to be a good voice chat.
the UX of software like discord (even 2015 discord) is night and day vs teamspeak/vent (glorified IRC chat with mods)
mobile games
irc as well. it's not the social systems at fault,it's the games themselves made to be easily soloable. played on an ffxi private server for a bit and everyone was super chatty because you still need players to do anything in that game and that includes even leveling up. you have to make friends to survive, if you don't you're fricked.
There's a reason why people rightfully cite dungeon finder as the moment where WoW died, you no longer had to do talk to anyone to do anything. Combined with server transfers making it so your server reputation didn't matter, it basically killed all social aspects of the game. If you let players get by without interacting with players, they will. Classic WoW had everyone talking with each other at the start but as soon as mages were able to boost peoples alts, that ended. There was no need to befriend that tank or healer so you can do more dungeons with them in the future.
No you stupid zoomer
I've made more friends playing weird obscure multiplayer games that rarely peak a few hundred players than I ever have in MMOs.
I'm curious, name some of these games.
Mordhau
The rich emote system and its sovlful voice lines makes for the greatest social interaction simulator of our time
TF2
They serve no other purpose, the whole point of mmos was to be social while playing games for nerds who only breathed games and tears, then videogames became mainstream and now mmos turned into another real life where only certain people get to have fun and if you don't know them you're shit out of luck.
Also the general rat race to any kind of end game, if you want the mmo experience you have to play during the early days of whatever mmo you find because the second it becomes popular it gets pozzed
Socialization moved on to Discord and Twitch
Extrovert gamers form groups on Twitch, introvert gamers watch the group and have a parasocial relation with them
Automated matchmaking basically killed 99% if MMO player interaction. You're in and out with a single press of a button and not a single word necessary. I guess the only "social" games are those in which you are actually forced to interact with others through text/chat like that Amogus game maybe?
This guy is onto something. "Quality of life" improvements are an invisible poison that kills all social interactions. Putting a party together requires social skills and will make players get close to one another, but that part is entirely skipped by auto-queuing to do anything.
Then there's the second part: What are you auto-queuing for? Usually a "raid" or "dungeon" that is actually just a piece of instanced content. That stuff has no business existing in MMO games. The whole point of these games is sharing a single game world but endgame activy in EVERY SINGLE MODERN MMO consists of queuing up for bite-sized, match-long instanced content with only a predetermined team of people. Absolutely soulless.
the worst thing about an open world with no instancing is the fact that homosexuals with bot accounts and no lives will camp all high value areas with impunity unless the admins actually do their jobs and tell them to frick off by force.
there is really no way to solve the problem one hundred percent and that's the shitty part
> homosexuals with bot accounts and no lives will camp all high value areas with impunity
Yes, this is how it should be. You play the game and get rewarded for it.
If you play the game more, you obviously you should have nicer thing.
And don't bring it up bots as if they were things only done by poopsockers. The people who bot are not the ones doing the hardest pieces of content.
that's cool but you are conveniently sidestepping my point about the game being ruined for everyone else and in turn justifying the existence of instanced content
you really don't need to look anywhere but WoW to see what happens when the loudest homosexuals get their way while the other 99% of the player base sits on the sidelines. if that's what you want then by all means, go play that.
>Imagine grinding some thing and another player shows up, and instead of getting angry because they're stealing your XP or kills, the game boosts your XP and droprate for every player that's near you.
timeless isle during MoP did this and it was wonderful. can't remember if it was implemented elsewhere in WoW as i stopped playing retail almost 8 years ago
This is why these threads are useless. Just imagine for a second, an MMO that rewards players for grouping up instead of punishing it. Imagine grinding some thing and another player shows up, and instead of getting angry because they're stealing your XP or kills, the game boosts your XP and droprate for every player that's near you.
>the game boosts your XP and droprate for every player that's near you.
Great so the best way to grind is to become a murderblob where every individual means nothing. No frickin thanks.
>Instanced content bad!
Peak moron opinion. The reality is that without instanced content you just have subhuman nolifers ruining the game for everyone else, on top of being extremely limited on the types of content you can actually produce. The old school everything-is-in-the-world setup is untenable at scale and at odds with the existence of chinks and favela monkeys in the real world.
>everything-is-in-the-world setup is untenable at scale and at odds with the existence of chinks and favela monkeys in the real world
Skill issue. And if you can't put as much time as chinks and huemonkeys, you deserve to lose.
You're basically asking for design where effort doesn't reward you proportionately.
Most players don't even get to reach things considered endgame, when things are done in oldschool MMO style. This too is another symptom of modern MMO design where everyone is rushed to level cap so they can join the instanced raid threadmill. Dogshit design on top of dogshit design.
And if you're going to bring up WoE history to justify anything, keep in mind that it all happened because the game already was instanced focused and endgame focused at that point.
A truly good MMO needs to be 100% sandbox, 100% open, no instances and reward players proportionately to their playtime, and the majority of players will never reach endgame.
>A truly good MMO needs to be 100% sandbox, 100% open, no instances and reward players proportionately to their playtime, and the majority of players will never reach endgame.
i disagree completely with the no instances point and the final point, otherwise sure
Honestly you and everyone else in this thread are the reason I leave Ganker today for the last time.
Absolute bottom tier opinions, you are regurgitating the same basic philosophy I came up with when I was a kid.
Everyone here is a zoomer, the discussion never improves, it just cycles and gets dumber
You know I'm right.
And see you tomorrow.
Anyone here want to start a new WoW Classic character and level with me?
literally any other game and yeah
yes hc and do you play a fem priest?
drop bnet
Im already in a the mid 40s with my paladin. God the 40s suck so hard.
ok but I never played WOW, can I join anyways?
YWNBAW
when cata classic drops, sure
Any games with multiplayer integration, so, even shits like this have great socials, even more being a full game for free.
I've reached a point in my life where I have literally NOTHING to talk about to other people. All I do is go from home to work and back and don't interact with anyone.
I hope you never got into friendship or you must be resenting its absence already.
but you're here?
It's a very casual sort of interaction, not comparable with real people or even deeper online dialogue.
It's all much easier when you're a box with text in it we can forget about.
It satisfies the urge to socialize at a basic level but it's enough and that's all.
>It satisfies the urge to socialize at a basic level but it's enough and that's all.
it does for me
Yes it's enough.
I don't even need it. Sometimes I just imagine conversations in my head and that's enough for me. Sometimes I even daydream about making a specific thead on here while at work, I imagine all of the replies, and then I'm already bored by socialisation by the time I get home and don't even bother. I legitimately don't get how loneliness can exist, I haven't had friends in a decade but I just permanently daydream conversations and I'm fine
I envy you somewhat
My suicidal tendencies from wasting my life spike up if I have no social interaction for a month
mine only spike if I have no videogames/other entertainment to distract myself with otherwise I'm good
No memeing here, do you think you have autism?
Who cares about autism. You can cheer yourself up by making up friends who love you in your mind that say "you're so cool man, oh i dunno, no way i love being around you, me too man, oh you guys". You don't do this because you think it's silly but it works really well.
Oh it's not REAL real therefore it doesn't matter, well happiness won't rain on you either you dimwits. You're mistaken about refusing to foster imaginary friends.
By the way i meant the big You, not you in particular. This is a public discussion after all.
I like having other perspectives because I'm moronic and I have to acknowledge that. I don't often go out of my way for social interaction but when I do I enjoy hearing other people's perspectives and etc, and I like the feeling of learning something new or thinking about something I never came up with regardless of all the time in my head. Even if it's something moronic, I like to sit there and rationalize it.
>I just imagine conversations in my head and that's enough for me
i've always done that since i was a child, the probelm is that the other me who i usually had conversations with has developed his own counciousnes and constantly criticize and insults me, he used to be so cool but now i want him to frick off but he wont go away
>the other me who i usually had conversations with has developed his own counciousnes and constantly criticize and insults me
Same anon. He makes me super uncomfortable and won't let me be myself. I call him "my inner voice" and sometimes I just wish he'd frick off.
>don't talk to that person you're ugly
>they smiled in your direction? they're just relieved they're not as pathetic as you
>remember that time when you punched your best friend square in the nose for no reason? why'd you do that?
>why did you embarrass your father that one time while riding the elevator? have a nice day
I punched an innocent in the nose once to see how it felt to be mean. I didn't like it. He cried and all, he looked so betrayed.
that time when you punched your best friend square in the nose for no reason? why'd you do that?
>I punched an innocent in the nose once to see how it felt to be mean. I didn't like it. He cried and all, he looked so betrayed.
what the frick is wrong with you all.
>I don't even need it. Sometimes I just imagine conversations in my head and that's enough for me.
>I haven't had friends in a decade but I just permanently daydream conversations and I'm fine
Aren't you tired of constantly theorizing at some point? You never want to see the "potential" of the clash of imaginary/reality?
I'm better company than other people and especially other anons. Let me tell you about the threads i write, right funny threads, i know best how to play off my own jokes.
What's the context of this Miku pic anyway? Did she see something fricked up? Is she gaming and died unexpectedly? Is she doomscrolling and just now realized she's pissing her life away?
They are. You just have to accept that 99% of MMO populations should be avoided.
>The hardcore elitist who thinks their mastery over a game with 3 input commands and ability to watch youtube guides makes them special
>The "hardcore elitist" who thinks they carry everyone and hates every group they are in but suspiciously can't handle anything solo
>The ERPer aka the megahomosexual who just wants to suck everyones dick through text message
>The global/area/region chat users who are the definition of the shitstain of social interaction
I still make friends regularly in the MMOs I play. The secret is to recognize when you're around people like yourself. Don't go looking for friends, but have a need for social interaction lead you into a situation where you're being more social. If you're good at what you do, people will want to play with you, and if you're a cool dude, those people will realize they just want to be around you.
>You just have to accept that 99% of MMO populations should be avoided.
This is what's wild to me
When i was young and played WoW i fell in mostly with chill older people, and those people don't seem to exist online anymore. It's just always-online frickup degenerates with a chip on their shoulder now
Thats because people treat these games so personally like its their identity, to the point they want to kill themselves if you say anything bad about the developer. Before it was a fun game to older people to pass the time on and just have fun with, but nowadays people look to making themselves seem more important with the hours they spend in the game.
Well no wonder they treat MMOs more personally like it's their identity think about it. Witness the words MMO players use to speak about MMOs.
It's society time, society time for anon.
Society always shows up when humans spend a lot of time together in one place and with it, culture, memes(original definition), ways, behavioral rulesets then history and so a shared memory therefore an identity. In this way long lived multiplayer games are different than common multiplayer games because of the years worth of time their players spend within a systemic framework. An MMO community resembles a people more than a hobby group so it's normal for the connection to be deep or personal.
Some kids were even raised within some online society or another so imagine the weight that has upon their thinking patterns.
This topic may go on. We live in a sausage.
Once upon a time the people who played MMOs weren't obsessively watching thousands of hours of it on Twitch so everyone acts like they're pros and less like they're dicking around. This has also made the minimum standard of competency ridiculous.
in a row?
Just saying people obsessing consuming content about MMOs rather than playing them has made the experience way less enjoyable. Way different compared to how playing WoW was in the beginning where generally your experience was your own gameplay or watching your friend so the floor for competence was pretty low. Now you're literally expected to have perfect rotations on even a casual raid and you're expected to have everything memorized even if it's your first time. Way different from the time when 80% of the people have never done WC before. Now everyone knows the skip and expects you to know the skip.
like all at once or at different times?
Why would I befriend a female online?
I cant even frick you.
this, i want to frick a guy while i play video games
If I make a casual friend and I found out it's a woman I usually stop talking to them, cause I know how their minds work and they can report you and the companies fricking listen to them. No matter how mad a guy gets he won't report you for anything.
and if he does nobody cares cause he has no vegana
Tik Tok
I played ff11 back in the day, you could not even alt tab out of the game so you were 100% locked into the game. This meant you talked to people during down time, everyone made friends even if you were an autistic loner, anti social freak.
phasmophobia is pretty social but it's not the best game ever
People managed to even suck the fun out of that.
People playing that game rival the fricking Left 4 Dead autists with the amount of sterile metahomosexualry going on there.
after seeing how awful the dead by daylight and left 4 dead communities are i steer clear the frick away from any multiplayer horror game community
Phasmophobia was at it's best when it had those 20-100 player servers, legitimately some of the most fun I've had in a multiplayer game in years. Too bad it was so short lived, like under a week, because the mod creator and server host didn't like how racist everyone was lol
>Systemize every form of emergent gameplay and required social interaction that has taken place in actual social MMOs since ultima.
>Add discord to the mix
>Surprised when no social interaction.
Modern MMOs suffer from a shitty design philosophy. The goal of every major MMO is to quickly reach max level and grind for gear, so that you can explore the "endgame content" while you wait for updates. There's no reason to roleplay or interact with other players, you just have to complete your chore as fast as possible.
The best MMOs were those without a well defined concept of endgame, or a railroad to guide you to some destination envisioned by the devs, such as Runescape back in the early 2000s.
Runescape was always weird how some skills "ran out of content" as early as level 70 or so. It felt dumb, but on hindsight it was probably good design because it was a way of telling you that there's no "endgame" to go for.
Multiplayer games with community servers.
MMOs as a genre are dead and the only people still trying to latch on to them are autists who are obsessed with number go up.
MMOs are still the place to be social, you're just playing the wrong ones or playing each one wrong.
Stop expecting randoms you grouped up with via party finder to be social. Chat with people on global. Play private servers. Play different MMOs and get a feel for the variety of depth of different communities. Stop being mired in the past and expecting things to be like they used to be.
This tbh
Also suck it up and join the MMO discord especially if it’s a small MMO
It's not a social MMO if all the interaction happens in discord.
As someone who semi-regularly plays a small scale community-made MMO that has a Discord, only about half of all interaction is via the Discord. You see the people chatting in both places and the stuff discussed is much the same in both places, with the major difference being you can go back and read the stuff posted on Discord, unlike chat logs.
>but look at this advantage discord has!
Not relevant. If you meet in discord and play only with your discord circlejek, it's not a social MMO. You're basically creating your own enclosed bubble and treating it as a regular multiplayer game, same as singleplayer homosexuals treating MMOs as singleplayer games.
An MMO is only social if you have social interactions with people that you meet in the game.
I didn't say it was an advantage, I said it was a difference.
I don't meet in Discord.
I don't only play with people from the Discord, a handful of people aren't in it and I interact with them the same as all the others.
You're a moron who is so desperate to "prove" himself right that you aren't even reading what I say.
What's the best WoW private server?
It's like you kids don't know about IRC.
They're children, Anon. They've never experienced "dial-up." Heck, they've probably never had a "sleepover" or even gone "camping."
>Leave my house??? To do WHAT? No way, grandpa.
>Now stop talking at me; you're distracting me from my gacha
nobody wants to talk to people who play mmos including the players themselves
genuinely some of the worst human garbage i have encountered
acting like an anime girl in online games is only done by trannies
I acted like the catgirl when I was 13, at this point I just want to do my dailies. There is no novelty in it.
Because everything is easily accessible.Back when no one said shit and you had to actually TALK to figure shit out or even figure out basic hud elements, you were forced to talk to others to figure that shit out. Boom, instant connection. Nowadays, there's mods, websites, discords, forums, and everything, so you don't need to talk to other people. The need to make a connection isn't there, so nobody will make the connection. There's no reason to talk, so why talk? Was it perfect? Frick no, but it led to dedicated people who actually gave a shit.
Thousands of threads about the topic of declining MMOs trying to uncover the culprit. Each post goes with it's own explanation and the same things keep coming up. I think this board has figured it out, it's got every facet of the problem covered.
A point don't see as often, it's mine:
There isn't that many people who are interested in the kind of MMOrpg mechanics we yearn for.
My ass says between 500.000 and one million videogame players desire to involve themselves in living online adventures with others in a fantasy world regularly. Those were roughly the numbers of players MMOrpgs would get before WoW and WoW wrecked the genre.
I don't think it's possible to have a very successful MMOrpg. If the game draws in more than a million players then it means the game was already constructed wrong.
>There isn't that many people who are interested in the kind of MMOrpg mechanics we yearn for.
No, there are. However the issue is that long term character and account progression is now also a key feature in most mobile games and those can be played anywhere, at any time, and you can pay to skip the grind if you're now a busy adult that grew up playing MMOs. Mobile games cannibalized the MMO market and that's why so many of them have guilds and other social systems, some even have events the guilds do together. Theorycrafting is big in those games too, the market basically shifted and proper MMOs are now mostly for raiding neets and women wanting to play second life with better graphics. Old school MMOs were often about chasing rare drops too, which gacha has covered. It's like how RTS was basically replaced by MOBAs.
adding to this, several lobby/instanced-based games have replaced MMOs for some people depending on what they want (e.g. pvpers wanting to gank underleveled lowbies moving to mobas)
I used to be into MMOs for the co-op dungeons until I realized co-op lobby games could give a focused experience with more variety and less chores
These games you described have taken from the share of players who didn't enjoy older MMOs' tenets and wouldn't enjoy them today, the players who make the MMO game go past the million subscriber mark.
I told you my ass why speaking. It's time to listen to my ass.
I feel that way but it feels like I'm in the minority since I didn't grow up with MMOs and can only speculate on the concepts. I love the idea of stripping a lot of options from the player and making the game extremely inconvenient and unintuitive. Even playing modern ffxi gave me the feeling of how dangerous and punishing it is to die, without being actually hard or difficult. It really makes the preparation and adventure and commitment palpable, whereas my only other example with ffxiv I don't really get immerses at all because the only sense of adventure is exclusively when the game tells you thats how you should feel. In terms of actual feeling I've never gotten lost, everything is given to me immediately, nothing is punishing, and itbjust focuses on nothing but the purest of pure numerical values. This is good for a wide audience because then commitment doesn't have to exist and you don't need to care even a little to feel accomplished. It's bad for genuine interactivity though, and makes the social aspect extremely pointless and degenerate.
Inconvenience is a great thing in a game. Imagine how convenient it would be to pick up the golf ball, run to hole and shove it in but then, there would be no golf game.
Any game is created by putting restrictions on actions, inconveniences are the molecules of a game.
Get bent conveniencegays.
On another note. In FFXIV the natural flow of gameplay, the path of least resistance for a play session, drives players apart. Encourages everyone to disperse as soon as any group activity is accomplished.
This MMO not only makes no effort to bring players together it actively explodes groups apart at the first opportunity.
As for adventure. It can not happen without danger + mystery. An FPS requires gun + first person, an adventure game requires dangerous situations for the player and things the player doesn't know. I have the feeling there's a third pillar to adventure but i can't make it out.
>In FFXIV the natural flow of gameplay, the path of least resistance for a play session, drives players apart. Encourages everyone to disperse as soon as any group activity is accomplished.
I haven’t played it, what do you mean? What encourages this?
Brace because you've asked me, The Rambler.
It's often said in the threads. That too many activities are solo and not just the quests, it's the problem and it's simple.
Everyone has their character, there are a million things to collect and many paths of progress for the character. All of it is progress for your character but almost nothing is shared progress, hardly any items can be sold or shared and progress that may affect your friends is more easily achieved with not-your-friends who are readily available through the various auto queues.
Group play does happen of course but it requires a small effort when it shouldn't, i'll give a typical example, it's an unnatural situation to play together and it's why i wrote that the gameplay's flow encourages dispersion.
You want to group up in order to search for treasure maps so you tell all your friends "lets do this together now". One of them is crafting, one of them is running trials, another is working on his relic right now, someone else is doing sidequests, the last one is doing his daily roulette (already a potential point of failure for the group) but all of them are excited enough to drop what they're doing to come into your group. Awesome. The group activity begins. Each member runs out of maps, the group activity is effectively concluded.
Is the group going to stay together next? Unlikely as everyone was busy before, it's been an hour, they need to get back to it and there is no benefit to staying in a group at this point. Party's over. Everyone drives home.
Same for raiding even between good friends. This is the pattern.
A selfish player is fashioned out of such a play environment.
Most people in these threads are WoW babies who grew up and just want to be young again and play WoW, you can't use them as an indication of what's wrong with MMOs nor how to fix them.
Then everyone is a wowbab and we can't listen to anyone so we can't figure anything out. Great.
There are posters who didn't play MMOs back then, who skipped them and regret it now. Some babs weren't born 30 years ago and they yearn for old MMOs anyway because gramps told them wonderful sappy stories online. This is not nostalgia, it's a genuine desire for videogame multiplayer adventures in the future.
>Then everyone is a wowbab and we can't listen to anyone so we can't figure anything out
Yes. The only way games have ever gotten better is by some genius making an amazing game. Listening to people has never resulted in anything good. There's so many things you could do to make MMOs way better than anything we've seen, but you rarely hear those kinds of ideas in these threads.
It's like the story about the iPhone: if Steve Jobs asked people what they wanted out of new phones, they would've said something along the lines of "better ringtones". He wouldn't have changed phones forever if he had just listened to what people want.
Vrchat is the new MMO without the RPG part.
I literally don't play online games because there's no point, just play with bots.
Man that 3rd frame took me back to FFXI in 2002. You'd kill a few EXP mobs then your mages would be out of MP and everyone needed to sit around and just /rest before you could pull another one. That MP ticked up so slowly you'd actually have enough time to have a conversation between each pull. Scrolls to learn Mage's Ballad and Refresh were so rare too back then, so even if you had a Bard or a Red Mage in the party there was no guarantee that actually had them so most of the time everyone just /rest'd between pulls which was kinda a way to force social interaction.
Even old WoW had that. You had food and drink but it wasn’t exactly speedy. My dad, bless him, still plays retail WoW for some unfathomable reason, and the recovery is practically instant.
It served as a bit of a mandatory breather, now it’s all go go go.
Imagine being more of a boomer than your dad
Damn right.
That's Everquest, Ragnarok Online, basically any old MMO lol. Sit and regen at 2x, which was still slow as frick.
>crying mmo-troon thread
WE'VE HAD ENOUGH SOCIALIZATION
this but unironically
I actively avoid playing mmos in guilds these days unless I actually need a group for something specific.
Even then, a lot of "gameplay-focused guilds" wind up getting into a bunch of dramatic bullshit. I'd rather just find a discord for raiding or whatever content and just do that if in-game pubs are terrible.
The desire for online fantasy worlds full of adventures with others has never been higher than during the last decade and yet MMOrpgs finished dying at the same time. Even FFXIV despite its rising popularity, never made the internet stop clamoring for some mythical old style game. The clamors have grown louder.
D&D is more popular than ever. Everyone cries about MMOs while desperately playing each new one. We're ravenous for adventure and deep bonds.
The MMO has died but not the MMO hype, not at all, not the fantasy of the digital world, no. The dream is burning. Everyone want to escape even harder than they did around 2000.
Maybe VR will be the next frontier of a MMO adventure?
Maybe discord will be the frontier. It's where everyone is aren't they?
Well first, some devs should manage to make an adventurous game if adventure is to be had. VR is but a new kind of display device.
Maybe the next singleplayer WoW clone will be it! Get ready to be hyped!
>D&D is more popular than ever. Everyone cries about MMOs while desperately playing each new one. We're ravenous for adventure and deep bonds.
The damage that Rotations have done to MMORPGs cannot be understated
This is completely false. We saw it with the release of WoW classic in 2019 - everyone has a great time leveling but as soon as people hit max level there was a universal drive for metagaming and farming out BiS gear to trivialize content that was already easy 20 years ago.
There's been a definitive shift in videogame culture towards hyperoptimized metagaming and it has very little to do with the game itself or the people who play it, as strange as that sounds. It's more of an uncontrollable, amorphous change.
No matter what MMO comes out, no matter what its mechanics are, the times of mysterious discovery are over and have been replaced with dissected, analyzed, and regurgitated builds and strategies.
The isekai boom. The survival and crafting boom. Genshin, ffxiv, old school runescape, wow classic itself, ffxi gaining subscriptions. People want that shit.
And every single one of those has had its soul optimized right out of it. Why the frick would you even mention OSRS when most people who play it use it as an idle game to increase numbers in?
You're besides my point, we're not getting each other.
My people is that players demand these things and play these things. After that if the games get ruined then they stop playing and fall into the despair you see everytime the MMO genre is mentioned. This can be seen beyond Ganker, it's bigger than us 121 fools.
anyone have the edit
going out with friends
twitch
The promise of the persistent living digiworld these devs made each time, even implicitly, was never fully delivered on even once.
Only bots would respond to inane small talk, people still talk to interesting people
Why did FFXIV kill interactions in MMOs?
>le discord boogeymen
Its only a fraction of the problem and im tired of pretending its the main cause. The current MM environment tainted social interaction and made it commonplace to burn through people like its nothing. Games are removing further chat features in place of quick chat options was a double edge. Discord only made it so if people wanted to connect further they could, it also dosent help MMO chats can be clunky and outdated itself. Blame the companies for not wanting to have organic communication and sticking people in the same skinnerbox rather than a app that tries to solve a problem
Public chats have become more sterile as well and everyone feels it.
Used to be rules were effectively:
>Don’t say Black person in global or you’ll get muted for a few days
>Use your ignore list
Hell, I think it was Runescape? that had a policy of "if the profanity filter caught it we do not give a shit."
MMOs in the past tried to be immersive and evoke a sense of adventure in a big world full of other people. Over time they evolved into pavlovian treadmills for the ultra addicted who would rather have a second job than an adventure or - god forbid - a social interaction. And this is really just a microcosm of modern gaming with its battlepasses and such, not unique to MMOs at all. People these days yearn for "the grind", they want to be dripfed "content". That's why you'll hear people say things like "what's the point of playing this game" when they feel like they aren't on a treadmill. The concept of a game being fun to play and that being the point is abhorrent to them.
VR
If MMOs gave more of a reason to interact with people it would happen more. But they're basically single player RPGs with an occasional multiplayer component. Remember how in FFXI you needed a party to level, a basic need in games? People chatted a lot there. Most games actively punish you for partying outside of dungeons these days.
Here's a question for everyone: how would you deter or trick the addicted singleplayer grinding homosexuals so they won't infest your game?
For example you could have a "heroic" title that gets attached to your character if you do certain things. You could add endgame themepark raids that drop OP endgame gear, if you go to that raid or equip the items from it, your character becomes permanently "heroic". Heroic items are stronger than all other items, but you can't equip them without getting the "heroic" mark of shame on your character. All other items are worse, so people who do heroic content would stay away from the rest of the game.
Why would you want to punish people for doing the hard content? Smh you people are dumb as hell
Sounds like the idea is working already.
because MMOs aren't about the hard content no matter how much WoW has tried to steer people into thinking that way.
also this, and i'll inb4 the stupid "just don't say Black person" boogeyman because that isn't the issue. powertripping Black folk will mute, ban, harass, and abuse you with their status for any reason whatsoever. and that problem is made exponentially worse with ever more draconic automatic bans, mutes, filters, and so on. who the frick would want to put up with that when they can just use an alternative chat with no consequences?
The design goal of an MMO should be to create content that is engaging for a coordinated group of players in order to facilitate player interaction I don’t see why that is controversial
because the end result of that is what WoW has become.
Coordination means two different things in the mouth of a normie vs an autist
i think the perfect compromise is world events anyone can hop in and out of if they so choose to. kind of like the FATEs from XIV. now the only issue is to make your world lively and engaging enough for people to constantly want to be running around in it and doing said world events
Fates are pretty cool but I never see anyone doing them. I always just end up either ignoring them or AoEing down the enemies in it.
that's where the "interesting" world thing comes into play, XIV's most fatal flaw is how antisocial it is outside of a few key areas
It doesn't help that the MSQs are single player only. If there was content for small parties it'd be cool. Pal around with your friend as he does his MSQs for some extra XP or something.
A friend of mine was thinking of playing it with me and I told him pretty much that. There's nothing for friends to do together outside of just queing for dungeons together.
there's shit like the deep dungeons, bozja, and eureka, but even then they're a pain in the dick to get through at a meaningful pace. which is fine if you're doing it with friends, good luck otherwise
I wish more people were like you in that regard. A friend of mine got me and 3 other friends to start FFXIV at one point. Would've been nice to know that us "playing together" was actually going to be him driving us around occasionally to click on NPCs, and otherwise just reading in silence or doing solo questing.
I'm looking forward to Dawntrail's story, but I'm not looking forward to playing through it.
>the design goal of this unspecific umbrella genre is to do this one highly specific thing
The MMO that filters you is the MMO that saves MMOs.
Ok so what
You want an MMO that is really really easy to do everything with your discord buddies no matter how dumb you are?
i want an MMO that doesn't suck the fun out of everything, yeah
There's other things you can do in videogames besides raids and bossfights.
Anons, i have a dream, the dream that we can, as we are masdive contrarians, make a new MMO together, by going actively against the incestous trends for the genre and by being inspired once more from other types of games, but for this dreamed game we need some things that are increibly hard to get, especially here in 5chin, we need unity (the value, not the engine), we could need a leader that brings us together and, lastly but not less important, we need passion, while easy to get, its hard to maintain.
Also, a plan of actions and a way to gather and inspire drawgays and writegays, if not even create and cultivate them on our own.
You can gather every ideaguy on earth but it's impossible to make an MMO without someone who knows how to create an MMO.
that the deal, our current society has memed everyone that isnt an artist or programmer to think that its an unlearnable set of abilities that you have to be born with or chosen by some god of sorts, but thats the thing, we have people, we are people! even this is indeed a barren hell website, can create shit if we propose yourselves to, even if we dont know how to now, we can learn to, and FRICK, do we need a homie that knows how to make mmos? i already said to go against incestous trends, what could he do, the netcode?
The people who were made to create hang out in the gamedev threads and they have their hands full working on their own games. If you wanna make an MMO I'll cheer for you, I'll be here waiting 5 years from now after you've learned a useful skill besides ideas.
People claim discord. While being a detriment, that's not the real problem. The number one biggest problem is the stifling of speech. No one talks anymore because even a nonchalant comment will get you suspended or banned. This is one of the reasons discord is so big now too. I could call someone moron in game and get punished for it or I could say my party is a moronic in discord to friends and be ok.
The second biggest reason is the inclusion of party/group finders and matchmaking. Why talk to people when you can push a button? Why join a lobby when you can push a button?
there are people who are socially active and then there are people who just like being a fricking attention starved obnoxious butthole
the guy who drew that was probably the latter and that's why he ends up alone
Having friends and a decent guild is the most powerful thing to have in a full-loot PvP MMO. Random players from a Groupfinder would only backstab you.
If you want to make friends/enemies play MMOs like Eve or Albion.
I fundamentally despise voice chat in all forms. Even when I play with friends I know IRL I only use it begrudgingly. Text is just nicer.
discord, teamspeaker and harder content. one of the reason why I play ff14
There are a lot of MMOs out there with players in the hundreds instead of 10s of thousands. Those are the ones where people still talk to each other and are largely playing FOR the social aspect.
>Become friends with online randos that I'll never meet irl
>Have fun talking every day
>They want to share selfies and know what I look like
Why are they like this...
tell them they can see what you look like when you go out for a beer irl
Played WoW for almost two decades. Haven't meet a new person for last 8 years. Somewhere along the line the community got so beyond toxic and elitist that I don't even want to interact with them.
Cute
MMOs need non-optional full-loot PvP to combat bots and anti-social solo player behaviour.
>where are you from?
From shut the frick up, it's north of Black person and next to not your fricking business. Just play the fricking game. I'm not here to make friends in a random PUG. Frick off.
Shooters unironically
They aren't THE game for social interactions, but they're still a medium for it. You just need to use them as such.
Consider riding a train or walking in the park. Other people are there, you can talk to them, meet people, make friends, but a lot of people don't. And while a lot of modern systems in MMOs are damaging to the social aspect, it's damaging in the sense that it makes it optional.
You just have to choose to use the social aspects.
early days of tree of savior was so comfy then as levels got higher people stopped chatting
Niche games, old games, and fan projects. Hop into a dedicated server for Quake 3, CS:S, Project Reality and you'll find regulars and clans. Hop on Turtle WoW or City of Heroes Homecoming and you'll find a community that won't quit. Hop in Hellgate 2038 and you'll find a bunch of people who just won't give up on their old, busted ass video game. Join a clan for Arma 3 or Squad or Insurgency if you can match the /k/ autism. CoD, Fortnite, Battlefield, all this shit is no place to make friends anymore. You have to find a place where people are, come regularly, and stay.
>Turtle WoW & CoH Homecoming
On that note, RP servers are great places for community if you can manage to not be an butthole and buy into the premise. Serious RP guilds and shit are a great place to make friends in and outside of the game.
do not tell these fricking people to come shit up private rp servers. theyre all coomers who are only interested in erp or making lewacky characters that'll make things worse
if their admins are smart they'll ban the refugees as soon as they log in
>be fat gross frick
>act cute
>other gross frick joins friend circle
>acts cute
>i can hear the fat in his voice
>silently fail to give any indication that i like him being here
>smell of unwholesomeness slowly permeates the group
>probably just wanted to make friends and be cute for once
>continue to grow fatter
doesn't sound very cool anon!
what
Lol
I hate that I know exactly what you mean
Not necessarily the fat part, but where you have a guild and people start sensing they’re not well liked
>Be turbo autismo that never leaves the house or socializes since high school and even then I didn't
>Get offered well paid position at bar just to be a cashier
>girls constantly ask for my instagram
>They get offended when I say I don't have one
Imagine an MMO that has no levelups or loot. If you can't imagine it being a good MMO, you don't deserve to have an opinion about MMO design.
So, what, Second Life?
I could entertain the idea of no levels but no loot whatsoever? How would that work?
The entire thing that keeps people coming back is a sense of progression. Without items and levels, what are you progressing?
>what are you progressing?
Your skills.
Most people are legitimately too stupid for me to even tolerate extended interaction with. I haven't actually talked or "socialized" with another person since my dad died in 2019
I feel you anon, even once you get passed the purposefully inane "small talk" it seems no one has anything rattling in their heads.
If you even bring up anything that could be thought of as "conflict" too they then get personally offended and act like you're attacking them as people.
What happened to friendly discourse? It seems like you can't disagree with anyone anymore without them b***hing a fit in the most intellectually disabled way.
Don't people get tired of constantly talking about "safe things" that make them happy? Doesn't it get boring to loop the same general theme of conversation for years? I don't fricking get it.
The secret is the economy, money.
It's somehow been accepted that if players are allowed to sell every item then a few players will do all the content and the rest will not run content but this is false because to buy their stuff, the other players will need money and therefore will run content.
Every NPC service should cost gold and not a little, no hand outs.
By balancing how the money is created, where, in which amounts, devs could spread the players the gameworld over searching for coin. The mere idea of money has a peculiar allure.
If it makes our world go round then it will make the MMO world go round.
>farm bots
>kill them irl
>fraud circles
>jail
>con men
>it's a social activity
>market manipulators
>more like officious community managers
Make a game with a limited amount of money available on the server. Give it some regulations, like you can't just hoard all the money and log off forever. Make it so you're taxed, moreso when offline. Naturally this will lead to a small group of players with the most money. Then you can witness class war, it'll be a great social experiment.
No, that's nothing like WoW therefore it's a stupid idea.
It's right. Why do players never seem to engage enough with the MMO world? Never taking it seriously enough, never getting an RP job or focusing on one discipline, never forming deep bonds with each other, families even, never walking, never sleeping in the beds or sitting on the benches or putting on different clothes?
Because they think they can log off. If you want to save the MMO genre then get the players really playing.
Also you should die irl if your character dies and not be able to log out so people get really immersed
You want adventure or not ?
just play an rp server bro
- player raidlogging. Can't log in if they're not logged out.
- player acting like an ass. Can't escape.
- playerbase dwindling. Can't.
- player bored. Only thing to do is play the game.
Bustling online world.
Online interaction is dead.
Used to be not that much different from the average Ganker discourse with bantz and shit-flinging, but now everyone is a soft snowflake and constantly on edge, offended by the littlest things.
Many games now come with a "mute all" feature because normies comprise the majority and must be protected as the holy cash cows they are.
Just another in the long list of things they ruined with their mere presence on the internet.
I've had a lot of pretty chill conversations while playing Hell Let Loose. There's always the occasional super try hard who treats the game too seriously and lately there are a depressing amount of people who just don't talk at all, but mostly it's full of pretty cool dudes who you can shoot the shit with in the downtime between firefights.
I think one of the problems, at least in an MMOs, is the lack of downtime (by design). Everything is just GOGOGO to the next queue, to the next fight, to the next part of the dungeon.... There's to many checkboxes to tick, to many dailies, and not enough time to actually stop and socialize. Playing through an early dungeon in wow like deadmines is great, even in 2023 because you have to be methodical to not pull the entire dungeon and take rests to heal up, since playe's kits are still very basic. That gives you time to engage with people. In FFXIV for example every dungeon is just wall to wall pulls and then a boss. There's not a second to type anything on the chat.
Typing in between GCDs is possible but there's no reason to type anything because there's no decision to take.
Even though Eureka wasn't so great about downtimes and was nowhere close to some slow grouping experience, there were decisions to make within a party on where to go next or what activity to focus on so it played its little part in getting our groups to interact more than usual.
Man Pagos was fun i tell you. And, everybody, hated it.
I'm playing eureka now and I'm enjoying playing in an actually dangerous overworld.
I played classic when it came out and leveling with random people and running low level dungeons again after so many years was so fun. Then you get to max level and you start running the same thing over and over again because you need a specific piece of armor and it never drops and it stops being fun.
My best memory of Nostalrius was how much effort it took just to do Deadmines. I had forgotten so much.
Do I have to use voicechat? The op obviously had competent teammates and won the game. Thats all that matters. Dont force people into doing stuff thats not important to the game. If you want to talk so badly use Discord.
So to summarize, OP is mad that random people don't chat with them in dungeons or in the game? Kek, I never talk to other players in the dungeon party, feels weird. I also don't go out of my way to just start talking with people randomly in some city/hub. I don't know why, just don't. It's almost like I have social anxiety and awkwardness INSIDE the MMO, which is pretty bad when you think about it. I can't even interact or talk to people in a video game.
I always hated the social aspect of MMO. I only enjoyed cause of the huge world but nowadays games like Dragons Dogma or Elden Ring exist.
>tfw that mmo you liked is fricking dead and its corpse is being violated by the company making dumbass decisions
There's no need to specify "MMO", that's happened with everything I liked.
Bring back noncombatant support classes and away with instanced content. I want to be injured exploring a dungeon and have to make my way back to the nearest medic camp to have my wounds tended to.
>noncombat support classes
hard agree. life skillers should be an entire class branch of their own instead of just lazily being menus.
Ideally, crafters would have some barebones combat skills (so they aren't completely fricked out in the wild) and the rest of their mechanics dedicated to resource gathering and making items off of those resources + monster drops.
>removed instanced content
instanced content has a time and a place. major boss fights, story quests, certain parts of chain quests, etc.
it can be good when used well, the problem is that devs just make fricking everything be instanced with an instant teleporting queue.
Yeah you put it better than me, instanced stuff is fine in certain situations. Also make traveling important again. Keep fast traveling tied to hiring a carriage or airship at specific locations, and players ability to personally fast travel to the use of expensive items or spells.
I held onto that pipe dream of the online adventure for 8 god damn years. People just aren't like that, who the frick wants to smell the flowers in an MMO.
One time i dressed like a pirate, stood on a crate at a port and started advertising
>loot from the isles, up for grabs, open a trade window if ye dare
And i gave out all kinds of items, players would walk up to me like kids at the candy stall, receive a trinket and say thanks.
Was fricking fun but how the hell would you convince someone else to do something like that, huh? There's like dungeons to run or whatever. It would be wasted playtime.
Not reading this thread but let me guess
>morons who can't socialize with others demand all QoL improvements get deleted so they are forced to talk to you (just to say lfg, cool, bye)
Of course dood
But you also forgot "the end game content you can't auto party for doesn't matter since I don't care about it, only leveling counts as content and if you do raids you're a troony"
I'll never understand these "people"
even as a turbo autist, I've never had trouble getting people to talk and socialize in mmos. it's easy as piss, just going to any server chat and going
>alienware hue hue hue
instantly gets things going
A fricking 20yo or some shit does not play ffxi or wow on a private server seeking over-optimization. He's looking to live the old tales for himself. Fortnite as well was like an MMO, it sure was persistent like one and living as well. MMOrpgs are dead but the idea of them and not the want for them.
Fortnite isn't very persistent after you kick everyone else the map closes
It was a persistent central universe across the matches with stories and updates. Your view of the term is too narrow. It was a community-world-setting changing through time with lore and happenings. It wasn't like counter strike or even team fortress. Why am i talking about fortnite again? It's 3 fricking am. Frick off Ganker.