What is the point of these weapons? Fallout 2 had the pipegun which was the only gun near the beginning of the game. FO4 is full of these despite coming out of the vault with a 10mm. Cyberpunk had the McDonalds Happy Meal Vending machine gun. I wonder why Caesar's Legion doesn't use crossbows but guns are so common in the game that question the whole guns are reserved for veteran Legionaries policy.
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Variety, more to do, more to collect.
It's a video game where you can run into 4 enemies with guns and kill them all with your bare hands, it doesn't have to make sense.
>it doesn't have to make sense.
The problem is that it makes sense in the setting; but gameplay-wise, it is useless. I bought a fishing rod in D:OS2 only to realize that I can't fish with it and it is just a melee weapon.
Dos2 - clutter manager
>every enemy in the first half of the game uses the same weapon
>variety
I think they're for legitimate morons that have real trouble navigating maps and finding anything at all to use.
The Cyb77 vendor guns were right near the first walkway out of your apartment for example. Bright look at me colors etc. Also they'll just put that stuff in for gag value after they overshot the modellers budgets and already finished the real balanced weapons lists, might as well ask why flushable toilets are always a thing in fps games.
Or say you threw your gun away or sold it also being a moron and need a replacement fast because you just adhd lurch through games at random seeing butterflies and shiny quarters in the street. Mindless playstyles.
You're the kind of guy who looks up guides for everything and thinks it makes them a better gamer, no?
These games [imo] are most-enjoyable when stumbling upon things naturally in stead of mapping out quests and min-maxing.
No, I just left Jackie hanging for noodles and followed the police activity and gang commotions noises to the nearby c-store roof where criminals were below and then broke all their necks out of stealth while accumulating their weapons.
Jackie's questions about taking a very long bathroom break of a day or two were amusing.
Shishkebab is kino
For Fallout 4 it's just to use if you have a lot of ammo. Can use pipe guns a lot more freely than the 10mm.
Raiders drop lots of .38 ammo and is the only real option for full-auto weapons during the early game.
I normally like to save ammo by using rifles (reinforced by New Vegas auto weapons kinda sucking) but after modding an automatic pipe gun I decided to go for a more rapid fire play style. Stopped using it after finding a combat rifle, of course. Carried it around for a long time in case I ran low on ammo but that never happened.
Some don't know that you can get extra ammunition in Fallout 3, NV, and 4 by taking guns of fallen NPCs. The extra ammunition being the ammunition from their current magazine at the time of death. So it's best to kill them just after they reload their weapon, to get an entire magazine worth of extra ammunition.
I just wish there is a reason to use improvised weaponry in situations beyond something like Dead Money.
Situations like what?
I always carry around extra weapons just in case so there isn't much of a niche for home made guns.
That is my point. Unless the game deliberately strips you of your weapons, these weapons are mostly there for atmosphere.
So what do you want? A quad barrel blunderbuss minigun to chew through your thousands of surplus rounds?
Could do like some other game did where military grade ammunition is considered valuable currency and people mostly used cheaper rounds but apply those rules to the guns themselves and have people mostly use cheaper guns that they are more able to repair and replace. Or like Dying Light where everything has a pretty short durability so you're gonna be dropping used guns for scavenged weapons a lot.
>some other game where military grade ammunition is considered valuable currency and people mostly used cheaper rounds
if anybody's interested the game is metro 2033. it's not an RPG but pretty good. i like that mechanic because modern ammo uses strong and clean powder and primers but they're basically impossible to make without a serious chemical lab. black powder can be homemade but it's weaker and really dirty. the frickhuge clouds of smoke it made are also why old armies wore bright colored uniforms and used line formations to avoid friendly fire
>FO4 is full of these despite coming out of the vault with a 10mm
Fallout 4's theme, for its post-war setting, is bog wasteland: dirty, scrappy, and makeshift. Settlers live in cobbled-together shacks or in pre-war buildings with mounds of 200-year-old trash. The pipe weapons follow this theme.
The reason why you start off with a better weapon is because Bethesda wants to give players the edge.
and then you have the gunrunners selling anti-material rifle. Bethesda just had gone full moron with the pipe weapons shit, hell even that Fallout mobile game is full of pipe weapons.
>and then you have the gunrunners selling anti-material rifle
I mean, they did come from a place that had at least 2 successful vaults with G.E.C.Ks.
Meanwhile the Commonwealth gets the Institute, a constant threat unlike the West coast Master and Enclave who popped up for a bit and died not long after. Plus a hundred times more raiders that make the Khans look like a joke.
To me, it feels like Bethesda approaches Fallout a little too superficially (super mutants and BoS in every game, for example.) Fallout could never be described as realistic (realistic would be about being boringly practical, and there's other franchises for that,) but it had slightly more nuance for the purpose of keeping its worldbuilding interesting and not as one-dimensional as Bethesda's current attempts. And I doubt Bethesda is going to do a better job next time since Starfield has shown most people that Bethesda is creatively bankrupt. "Starborn" feels a 12 year-old wrote it.
In my opinion there's a big difference between realistic (trying to replicate real life phenomena as mechanics) and realistic (is the setting believable/immersive within its own rules?)
Scifi and fantasy games don't have to be "realistic" in terms of mechanics and contents, but if the setting they present doesn't feel "realistic" as far as immersion goes the game suffers because content starts to feel like it was placed with the intention of it being a theme park for the player to traipse through.
For example fallout 1/2 aren't realistic in the slightest, but the fantastical and unrealistic parts of the setting don't feel unrealistic within the rules the game presents to the player. They feel like they could actually be real within the world that fallout 1/2 put you in, they're coherent within the context.
And that's because the unrealistic elements there have at least an attempt to explain and integrate them into the setting instead of handwaving them way with a
>we added it because it's fallout you fricking nerd, okay? what more do you need, frick off and buy our game
when it came to shit like bottlecaps, super mutants, jet, postwar food and items locked in prewar safes
>FO4 is full of these
Member the pipegun?
Woah!
Look at that!
Pipeguns!
Pipeguns everywhere!
Member!
AWESOME!
In FO4's case, pipe weapons and their ammo are very common so you can use them as backup weapons, and they probably will introduce you to the weapon customization mechanic since most of their craftable parts don't require crafting perks (and the other parts only requires perk level 1~2).
For other games, they can be anything from vendor fodder, cheap extra weapons in games with durability mechanics or even collectathon toys for people who enjoy putting one copy of every item in the game in item stashes.
You can find better guns before you even start making pipeguns.
What they should have done is have a durability system. All weapons should degrade with use, but only makeshift weapons can be repaired. When a pre-war weapon breaks, it's gone for good.
This would make the player choose tactically when to use a superior pre-war weapon or just settle for his makeshift ones as good enough.
>What they should have done is have a durability system. All weapons should degrade with use
this is the single worst mechanic in any game. it serves no purpose other than to annoy and stress the player. there is nothing fun about having equipment degrade.
It's the generic "bad guy" gun. You aren't really supposed to use them. Fallout 2's pipe gun really was just so you could kill the rat king as a small guns character to get a real weapon. Fallout 4's pipe guns are bad guy guns to prevent you from getting ultramega good loot from just one run against a raider base. Cyberpunk's (I assume never played it) are just for worldbuilding to explain why guns are so ubiquitous. Caesar's Legion only really reserves guns from recruits because recruits are typically dumbfrick tribals that wouldn't know how to effectively use them. They aren't facing a shortage.
I actually love these little guys like you wouldn't believe. Makes perfect sense for a post-post appocalypse where real working prewar firearms become increasingly rare. Also makes sense from a lore perspective as its established that prewar infrastructure is far hardier than our own with water treatment facilities surviving for hundreds of years in working order. Try this with a real world pipe and it would blow up in your hand, but a prewar pipe might very well be able to withstand the pressure.
speaking of which why the hell were there sentry guns all over the water treatment plant that you fix for graygarden?
It's because the model designers don't want to learn about how guns actually work, so they make piecemeal weapon parts they can throw together and let marketers say the game has 1000000 guns or something.
>why is the M4 ejecting out the left side of the receiver? Was this model created by a lazy lefty? What the frick, is he using the forward assist to wiener it?
Yeah this shit is really immersion breaking and I don't know why the modelers don't just take even half an hour over the point of their entire career to learn how guns work.
Shit is mind boggling, it's like they perceive a gun as some magic black box where magazine goes in, bullets come out, no sense given at all to how the internal mechanisms function.
It's even sillier in settings like fallout where the wasteland seems flush with perfectly good and usable firearms and yet somehow raiders still prefer to use cobbled together barely functioning scrap. When games do this it makes them feel like an amusement park.
The worst is that ergonomics just ceased to exist in Fallout 4. Using a nail instead of just wrapping some tape or something to at least make a comfortable trigger? Yeah that makes sense. And I really want to hold my gun by a metal skeleton with electrical tape around it, that would be real comfortable to shoot.
Pipe guns were on a pre war magazine.
Obsidian also reuses bottlecaps, super mutants, BoS and Enclave.
Jet is Jet. Retconned accidentally to being pre war. Won't defend that.
>Obsidian also reuses
Not really a fair comparison. New Vegas (the city, not even the map edges iirc) is only about 200-250 miles away from the Hub canonically. Vegas is closer to the Hub than several parts of the Fallout 1 map the Hub is actually on and closer to the Hub than the majority of the Fallout 2 map. Reusing lore elements across 1-2-New Vegas makes sense since they're all in the same general region with their closest points almost or actually overlapping in places.
Fallout 3 and 4 take place 2,500 miles away on the opposite end of the country.
>Obsidian also reuses bottlecaps …
Obsidian gave a reason why bottlecaps are used, then another reason they became valuable again after Fallout 2. There's no reason they're used in Fallout 3/4 other than because Bethesda flanderized the IP into being a theme park.
>super mutants …
Most of complaints nowadays is because Bethesda does nothing interesting with super mutants. They're functionally the same as raiders, which is not interesting. Bethesda feels the need to have super mutants because of the aforementioned flanderization.
>Obsidian gave a reason why bottlecaps are used
The reason being...?
Gotta use something.
The BoS destroyed NCR gold. While it opens up more questions, it's better than nothing.
>The BoS destroyed NCR gold
Further validates my destruction of their shitty little bunker. Frick that stupid cult and their moronic beliefs.
No, that's the explanation for why instead of gold coins (like in Fallout 2) the NCR is now using useless paper, in fact paying its workers with said useless paper instead of more locally valued caps is mentioned in multiple dialogues.
The Legion doesn't use caps either, and instead they use silver and gold coins.
Only Vegas natives are using bottle caps, for no reason other than "le ebin fallout currency xDDD".
> No, that's the explanation for why instead of gold coins (like in Fallout 2) the NCR is now using useless paper, in fact paying its workers with said useless paper
This is anti-Semitic
>Only Vegas natives are using bottle caps, for no reason other than "le ebin fallout currency xDDD".
It's a remnant of the bottlecaps being used in F1. They're in the same geographic region, even if they're not backed by water anymore there's some logic behind continuing to use them if they're hard to counterfeit and people are already generationally familiar with them as a currency. Think of it as a traditional holdover.
They never were within the Water Barons sphere of influence.
The only currency that would make sense in Vegas is Lucky 38 Casino Chips, quickly phasing out whatever other currency or barter mechanism was in place before the tribes were given the mandate to return the strip to life.
>Obsidian gave a reason why bottlecaps are used
really, I never needed a reason. When a game tells me the Gorons can't get to their rocks and they'll starve I don't wonder why they don't eat the rocks that are literally everywhere, I make up my own explanation.
The same, I'm sure, happened with you the first time you saw bottlecaps being used as currency in a Fallout game and you weren't getting ruffled at the notion the whole time till someone explained it to you.
I mean, if you've got a better alternative and a reason why that alternative wasn't used in Fallout 1 then do tell.
I don't know why people even include bottlecaps on the list of complaints.
>Vegas is closer
I think this is a great point. Fallout only works in the Southwest. Bringing it to the East Coast was a mistake. East Coast should have been a completely unviable crater anyway. It was a mistake to take "America" for its thematic object. It's actually about the seedy southwest.
meant for
> It was a mistake to take "America" for its thematic object. It's actually about the seedy southwest.
True. F3/F4 are like Bethesda's cargo cult interpretations of F1/2. They mimic popular or interesting elements without understanding why they were memorable in the original games in the first place.
Yeah, they kind of missed the point that "New Reno" is just Reno.
Improvised weapons add world-building.
It means not every weapon has to be a Pre-War weapon or whatever. I like seeing random contraptions, they're fun. Frankly I'm just a huge fricking fan of shit being cobbled together and made to work through spit and grit in general. Guns, cars, anything. Love that rusty, clunky, made-of-junk look.
That being said FO4's improvised weapons are such ugly, lazy dogshit and of fricking course the modders had to fix it.
The thing that really pissed me off was to open a safe that was locked for the last 200 years only to find a fricking pipegun inside it. It's okay everyone else in the world using improvised weapons but come on....
Bethesda don't properly cultivate their loot lists. They're not a total sin, but the way Bethesda uses them definitely is.
>plenty of .38 ammo around
>must have been really popular prewar
>yet somehow not a single .38 gun survived
>while many of the less popular 10mm did
brilliant
If .38 was popular pre-war, then all the bullets would have been used up.
Think, anon.
That doesn't make much sense though. People buy and stockpile the ammo they use and not the ones they don't. A lot of people into guns as a hobby (that are not poor) have a few thousand rounds at least of their preferred round stockpiled at home. If 90% of humanity got wiped out you would expect to see the guns and rounds that were popular before be the vast majority of remaining ammo after an apocalypse.
should had be clear by now that Bethesda knows nothing about guns and they don't call consultants to help them. Frick they made square barrel for the caseless ammo guns because someone saw the "square bullets" and thought the gun would shoot that by the time someone called them morons for it the gameplay trailer dropped and it was too late to fix.
It's to kill space turks. Based Todd does it again.
>should had be clear by now that Bethesda knows nothing about guns and they don't call consultants to help them. Frick they made square barrel for the caseless ammo guns because someone saw the "square bullets" and thought the gun would shoot that
Post the magazine-fed revolver!
Or the caseless shotgun that ejects cases!