Just finished Silent Hill 2. I was initially so mad at this 3nding. Not sure why in retrospect. I went and watched the other 3 ending, and they all seem legit moronic, considering everything. The idea that James would forgive himself and just walk off with Laura (a stupid brat, who I'm convinced isn't 3ven real) seems wholly moronic. The whole shit about resurrection made sense until I realized the ending cuts out the whole bedside talk AND the final letter, which is just straight up taking away more depth and characterization, the frick?
The only ending that makes sense thematically and from a writing perspective to me is In Water. Just think about it, the bedside talk, the letter. The irony of James being told to live for himself and do what's best for him...and bro just goes and kills himself? What other ending fits better without having to pretend that James would somehow all of a sudden forgive himself.
But that's not why I made this thread. These are just my 3am thoughts, having finished the game around 3am.
I made this thread to inquire about something: Can a movie game be good if it has a good enough story? I'm wondering about this now. Playing through Silent Hill 2, I'd argue it's probably the most movie game game I've ever played, even more than TLOU2. It doesn't even try to pretend to have gameplay to offer, it's not "designed". It feels more like you're walking through somebody's story the entire time. And there will be LOOOONG stretches where you are literally just walking in the dark, no monsters, nothing. Just contemplation. Like the hotel after you watch the videotape. I had such a respect for that moment, that I decided to walk the entire time as James instead of running, because it seemed inappropriate that James would be hurried.
I also say this because I played Alan Wake 2, and didn't enjoy it as much as I wanted to, but...personally, It feels almost disrespectful to not consider SH2 great, despite barely being a game.
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Why do morons love In Water so much? Is it just the go-to contrarian choice?
~~*Post Modernism*~~ turned society into a bunch of atheist nihilists.
It's the saddest ending, and "that's sad" is all the rabble can take from the game. It's like putting a bow on a wrapped-up Christmas gift: "it just feels right".
Which is the 'real' ending?
>The one you get for carefully examining all of the game's content
or
>The one you get for skipping dialogue & notes placed around the world
The ones (plural, time travel is canon since the first game) that logically extend from the themes and character behaviors found throughout the game.
t. not that anon
is the 'real' ending?
There is no real ending.
If you skip stuff it means you're still in denial, otherwise you face the truth.
The beauty of the game's multiple endings system, is that it's based on your actions, trying to profile you psychology from the way you play, and therefore determine what outcome you'd get (as James).
Taking care of Maria, not listening to Mary's speech at the end, obsessing over suicide (symbolized by the knife) etc etc.
>The idea that James would forgive himself and just walk off with Laura (a stupid brat, who I'm convinced isn't 3ven real) seems wholly moronic.
His wife literally told him to live and forgave him. He felt like shit for killing her because of selfish reasons, hence all the shit that he talked about with his late wife and others telling him that he never loved her. Anon, how the frick did you missed all of that?
>His wife literally told him to live and forgave him.
Are you moronic? Is James Mary? Think about this statement for a while, and realize how moronic you are for not understanding how human beings, or guilt works. Being forgiven. Doesn't make you forgiven. There's way too much baggage, way too much that he went through, coming to Silent Hill 2, and reexperiencing, relearning his trauma. Too much shown in how almost pathetically single minded he is, throughout the entire thing, about finding Mary...that the notion he could just leave that all behind? Is ridiculous. Not to mention he's presumably been grieving for 3 years, and was still obsessed enough to go to a crazy dangerous psycho town, and all the horrors there, just to get to her.
Don't @ me if you don't have a sufficient response. It makes zero sense for him to forgive himself. He may deserve forgiveness. But the concept is fundementally arbitrary anyway, made up, subjective. The only person who it matters to forgive James. Is himself. And considering everything he's gone through to get here. There is little reason to think he would.
>that the notion he could just leave that all behind? Is ridiculous
James repressed the memory of himself killing her because he deluded himself that he loved her so much that he possibly couldn't do something so horrible. James can leave his wife behind, he said to her he wanted his life back and his wife understood that she was being a b***h to him. All James cared about was being punished for his sins that's why he killed pyramid head after he realized that fact. All that weight he had was gone after his wife forgave him.
>James repressed the memory of himself killing her
Not a real thing. Not to the point of amnesia at least. The only cope answer for this, is unironically that the town made him forget. This isn't how the human brain works.
>James can leave his wife behind, he said to her he wanted his life back and his wife understood that she was being a b***h to him.
Doesn't matter what he said he wanted. People tell themselves they want all sorts of things. Not to mention killing somebody for something is a different kind of paying the price for freedom. Especially when it's your wife that the game ITSELF ALREADY PROVES HE WAS OBSESSED WITH AND LOVED REGARDLESS BECAUSE OF THE ENTIRE TURN OF EVENTS THAT OCCURS THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE THING.
>All James cared about was being punished for his sins that's why he killed pyramid head after he realized that fact.
You don't understand anything about the game. Him killing pyramid head, isn't him quelling his guilt. The entire point is that it came right after the revelation, it's supposed to be about him getting rid of the denial that allows him to cope with his guilt and actually facing it head on. I'm quite literally sure that James even says something about the "truth" in the final confrontation.
Him fighting Mary is supposed to be when he MAKES a decision about what to do. Which is in turn shaped by the actions he takes in game leading up to it. But honestly, the default option obviously seems like his eventual death, because dude is so clearly broken and distraught and has nothing to live for from the beginning. There's zero fricking reason for ANYTHING EXCEPT maybe another Mary (Maria) keeping him alive. But that's also stupid, because he said it himself. Maria isn't Mary. He didn't have a single other relationship, and presumably didn't sleep around. He went to a dangerous desolate town after her. The only person he cares about, is Mary. It makes no sense for him to go with Maria.
I actually have an idea about Maria
>Him killing pyramid head, isn't him quelling his guilt.
Didn't say that. I'm not too sure if you're baiting me or you're just plain stupid.
>I was weak. That's why I needed you... Needed someone to punish me for my sins..."
>Being forgiven. Doesn't make you forgiven. There's way too much baggage,
Yes, that's what the fricking game is for. During the game, being in Silent Hill, he goes through the healing process.
>Not to mention he's presumably been grieving for 3 years
Oh no no no no no speedwatcher confirmed.
>Oh no no no no no speedwatcher confirmed.
?
James doesn't remember that part right. It's not been 3 years, it's been a lot less than that.
? because of what Laura said? That alone is pretty weak.
James thinks Mary died "of that damn disease" three years ago, when in reality it was three years ago that she got the disease but he only killed a few days back. You think there'd be a corpse to drive into the lake with if she's been dead for years? That people wouldn't have caught James already? That anything with Laura's recent birthday would make sense? James kills Mary a few days before reaching Silent Hill, tops.
moron.
: "after James leaves the prison, and goes across the lake to the hotel, how in the world did Laura, an 8 year old child, manage to get there before James? Also, why does she seem to keep popping up wherever James goes?"
from someone else. but it's fine. just reconfirming that because deranged morons like this:
exist on this board. Everybody else is always more moronic than I wish to believe.
>no argument
>literally cannot answer any of the other questions
>calls other people moronic when they tell him he is not in fact special for getting the specific of a 23yo game discussed to death wrong
If you wanted your shit thread to die off you could've just said so
>>no argument
cannot answer any of the other questions
other people moronic when they tell him he is not in fact special for getting the specific of a 23yo game discussed to death wrong
Lmao. Okay so I see now.
"No argument".
Doesn't address or dispell anything here:
>: "after James leaves the prison, and goes across the lake to the hotel, how in the world did Laura, an 8 year old child, manage to get there before James? Also, why does she seem to keep popping up wherever James goes?"
which is literally an argument with both a premise and conclusion that I cannot even believe I have to spell out:
If these unexplainable things regarding Laura are unresolved, then there is nothing to believe that Laura is real, and if Laura isn't real, no information relayed by Laura is real. Conclusion: Laura's birthday confirmation suggesting Mary's real death, isn't real.
Frick. I don't know why I do this to myself. Why I try to have any faith or respect for the genuine subhumans morons here that have proven TIME AND TIME again how genuinely psychotic, deranged, and delusional they are. How void of any logic, self awareness or critical thinking they are. How often they have deflected from, and not addressed or engaged with any arguments meaningfully...and here I am. Still pretending that anybody here is an actual genuine, whole and real human being, that can have anything to offer of insight in a discussion.
Such a waste of my time, opening myself up, and being vulnerable and humble enough to treat any of the subhuman morons here with enough respect to treat any of their responses as valid or possibly sound.
have a nice day promptly. If not literally, then it's a statement of figurative devaluing in my mind.
Brainlet.
In making this entire post. I already realize my goal to spark discussion is futile. I have so much more to say about this game. But it is what it is.
I have one more thing to say: To me, what I enjoyed about Silent Hill 2, is that its an honest and humble story. It's a story simply about Two "People" and I included the quotation marks in a sort of double irony.
Because one could say that about some other stories in gaming, even horror ones specifically.The ones that tend to develop the really obsessive types. The Last of Us 2. Uh Alan Wake. And recently, brought to my attention...Signalis.
This is what this paragraph is REALLY going to be about. Signalis. And by extension, Silent Hill 1 and 3, but more specifically Signalis.
I was reading some shit about this game recently, and I saw something on Reddit "Signalis is a better Silent Hill 2".
And it made me think about something.
The only reason I think Silent Hill 2 is good...is because it's Silent Hill 2. It's because of the story, and the way the setting is used to CONTAIN that story.
Here's what I mean: I said SH2 is an honest and humble story right? What I mean is that the story is simple. In finishing the game. I quickly realized that ALL that matters, is what is literally said. Infact, the game could be argued to be a bit blunt. Literally every single major theme is spelled out by a character. I mean, James quite literally says he projected Pyramid Head to be punished.
And BECAUSE it's not a complicated, or convoluted story. It allowed the game to truly focus on what matters. James, Mary, and their relationship as human beings. At first I asked myself "Why? What is the point of setting this story in Silent Hill?" and then it hit me, when I thought about most contemporary stories. A game like Signalis tries to be more complicated than it is, tries to have all these hidden "facts" one has to dissect and put together to figure things out...but SH2. It doesn't hide. It both shows and tells. Not only either
>It's a story simply about Two "People" and I included the quotation marks in a sort of double irony.
good lord, you're insufferable.
TR3-guy?
A game can be/do whatever it wants as long as there is some rationality to it.
Fighting shadow figures in Ico sucks ass too - but maybe you're not meant to feel like the god of war while your waifu is being stolen from you.
Before every playing Silent Hill 2. You will get the impression that "This is a deeply complicated game...that's hard to understand, layered with so many themes and symbolism...omg so deep..."
Beyond the fact that I'm always skeptical about people that can't really talk about, or describe things without... actually talking about them. They have to use words that I like to consider "cover words" like "deep" or "complex" or "woaaaah, le human psyche dude".
The game is incredibly simple. Like almost unbelievably so.
Think about all the symbolism, all the "subtle" writing, all the moronic shit people gas up like "bro, the bad voice acting is like, totally dreamlike dude" and you'll realize...none of that actually matters to the point of the story, unless you think the point is purely aesthetical. What purpose does it serve to see Mary's gown in the apartments? To extrapolate that Pyramid Head is James, and every time he's raping mannequin legs, that's actually like totally James bro! Or that the nurses being hot, totally means James only likes sexy confident woman!
It's never implied or even suggested that James ever cheated. Hes been obsessed with Mary for over 3 years that she's been dead now and has been unable to get over her, he went through a dangerous town against terrifying enemies, and being psychologically tormented, forced to dredge up painful memories...and this is the horndog that only likes sexy confident woman? No. I actually think 90% of people are wrong about Silent Hill 2 when you think about it.
And there is so much evidence that every other ending is moronic.
But most of all it feels kind of "disrespectful" like there's this implied insecurity, to the story simply being an honestly tale about a husband and wife, who hated each other, due to an illness, neither could stand, despite only one, technically suffering from it.
When people try to make Silent Hill 2 out to be more "complicated" than it is. It feels like saying "Its not enough"
>What purpose does it serve to see Mary's gown in the apartments?
Are you moronic? It's to show the delusion unraveling, the town being a fabrication of his mind, and the memory of his waif and what he's done haunting him.
The way you talk about it, might as well read the synopsis on Wikipedia and skip playing the game, you get the gist of it anyway, right? "A dude killed his sick wife 'cause he was fed up."
A story happens in its development (which yes, includes aesthetics), the base premise means very little in and of itself.
All those little elements build up the character of James.
Sure people have a tendency to over analyze and (paradoxically) simplify things ("lol he was horny and could frick, so he killed his wife"), but it doesn't mean every storytelling device is pointless masturbation.
Also things not being intentional (like the weird acting) doesn't mean they can't become intrinsic part of the general aesthetic in the final product.
Many times choices born from limitations (technical, financial or even artistic) have become a crucial reason for something's success.
Lastly. Because I'm again realizing how pointless discussions are here...or anywhere I guess.
There's a lot to say but...I think what really irks me is "Signalis". I don't know if anyone could confirm this, or if there's anyone that's honest enough to. But when I heard "It's Silent Hill 2, but better". I was hopeful. While I enjoyed and appreciated Silent Hill 2...I feel that it maybe could have made it's gameplay more seamlessly connected to its story. Because it's largely disconnected by cutscenes and combat. I wonder if there's a way to make it so that you have to "engage" with enemies...without engaging like a generic survival horror game. It just feels a bit off kilter sometimes.
But overall I think the game works, because of how unrelentingly focused it is on telling its story. It feels like it must have been an incredibly risky thing to do back then. And it's low sales (relative to everything on the PS2 at that time) reflect that.
I recently finished another game, that I now consider my top 2, and in a thread where I talked about that. Somebody recommended me Signalis. I already tried it out for a bit, but I guess I will again. I'm very skeptical though. I don't believe at all, that it will be a better "Silent Hill 2" or that it will even be close to my recently top 2 game.
Most importantly of all...is its "vague story". It is a major red flag to me, whenever the value of a story comes from the people dissecting what every little thing means. It feels like a red herring to actually character writing, dialogue, or narrative cohesion and genuine complexity. Like it's cleverly hiding all of that behind the fact that people are naturally drawn to mystique...even if it has no point other than to be mysterious.
In Silent Hill 2, there is a point. A payoff. Not understanding something disconnected, or impersonal like a "setting", "lore", "set of events". But understanding a person. In Signalis. I can't see any of that. Not to any depth.
you seriously need to see a shrink
What the frick did I just read?
he's known as tomb raider schizo, a self confessed troon with adhd but he refuses to take his meds, he keeps neurotically crying entire walls of text about games he hasn't played (see his insane rambling about signalis) and he hates Ganker because he spent $15 on tunic (a fortune for him, because he's a third worlder) and is too moronic to pirate games
few weeks ago he was saying sh2 was one of his favorites, without having played it, same with outer wilds, same with alan wake 2 etc he does this clown shit all the time
He should consider long form video essays. Rambling without ever making a point seems to suit him.
>healing doesn't make sense
Nihilist go away.
>The whole shit about resurrection made sense until I realized the ending cuts out the whole bedside talk AND the final letter, which is just straight up taking away more depth and characterization, the frick?
You can only get this ending on NG+, moron.
The full letter symbolizes the acceptance of the truth, in the Rebirth ending he doesn't accept the truth of his wife being dead, so it would make no sense to have the letter.