Invasions are the best mechanic invented in any videogame and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
I wish more games adopted this mechanic and made it mandatory without an ability to turn it off.
Invasions are the best mechanic invented in any videogame and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
pitch for an invasion centric mode
>singleplayer beat em up/adventure mode where you run through some stages fighting increasingly difficult enemies
>starts with trash mobs with only a couple attacks (on par with a castlevania mook), later it's intentionally bad versions of existing characters
>the invader is frequently hijacking enemies to control them and try to get some hits on you
>how much damage and time taken influences how much money they get for buying upgrades and powerups
>ends with a FT5 against the invader's character of choice
Total time for a given (successful) run would be 15-20 minutes
>hijacking enemies to control them
there needs to be some sort of customization for the invader, some sort of progression too.
Otherwise it's just going to be a directly competitive dbd clone.
Also it'not going to be an invasion if it's consentual, so there must be a heavy amount of pve content to go trough, making thr players think it's a single player game and fooling them to get invaded.
what wacky tobacky are you smoking if you think a fighting game can in any way be compared with DbD?
>there needs to be some sort of customization for the invader, some sort of progression too
>unlock a basic b***h combo for different enemy types
>each tier of enemy has and better combos/specials available for unlock
>cost "1 Talent Point" or whatever your level up currency is to unlock each combo/special/stage
b***h Tier 0 fodder - maybe a 1-2 punch combo
Tier 1 thug - One 3-4 hit combo
Tier 2 "sergeant" - One 3-4 hit combo | One special move(throws a knife or something)
Tier 3 "lieutenant" - Two 3-4 hit combos | Two special moves
>>rare Tier 4 mini-boss - Three combos | Three specials | One extra phase with unique comboes and specials (max level unlock)
>>rare Tier 5 boss - Five Combos | 4 Specials | Three extra phases | possible enrage unlock or other boss mechanics
rare Tier 6 super-boss - Custom Skills, pick and choose whatever you want from all tiers and varieties of enemies
passives for all tiers and varieties to boost certain stats like your survivability and make the invader controlled enemies feel unique and more threatening than their AI controlled counterparts
Game called Crawl.
incredible game that was kneecapped by not having an online mode or decent combat and any platforming
I've always wanted the ability to invade as mobs
invasions and summoning are at there peak when covenants were involved
grapegays, rat frickery and gravelords are were the mechanic showed a glimmer of its true potential
>invasions and summoning are at there peak when covenants were involved
>grapegays, rat frickery and gravelords are were the mechanic showed a glimmer of its true potential
Covenants were always dead aside from those that simply worked as ruleset for invasions, which are technically still in Elden Ring in the form of Furled Fingers, Bloody Fingers and Recusant Fingers being factions.
I hate Covenants deeply because they require pointless grind and force into specific matchmaking to access shit and impose moronic rulesets. I still think Forest Hunter was the best covenant as it was in a relatively relevant throughout early or mid/late game area that was fairly active all time and gave random rewards that any build could find useful aside from meme Pendants, but Forest Hunter is essentially the normal invasion based on level design and npcs Elden Ring also has, just restricted to a very specific area. Dark Souls 2 invasion areas were designed like ass and unbalanced as shit, and were tied to specific single rewards that lost relevancy the moment players grinded them
Covenants are good because they populate multiplayer and multiplayer needs to be populated - same reason why Dark Souls 3's ember system was good. There's a reason DS3 still has active online after all this time. Even DS1 has consistent multiplayer activity relative to Elden Ring.
>Covenants are good because they populate multiplayer and multiplayer needs to be populated
Wrong, covenants needed to be populated, not the opposite
The only covenants that work in Dark Souls 3 are ruleset covenants like Moundmakers, SunBlack folk, Furled Fingers and so on
Watchdogs of Farron are dead
Sane for all the "area" covenants
>The only covenants that work in Dark Souls 3 are ruleset covenants
Wroooong. Both area covenants are still populated as frick in their respective level ranges.
I loved being the doorman at the bell tower in Dark Souls 2
true that
the only souls pvp I enjoyed were 3v3 aldrich shitfests and farming bell Black folk in ds2.
Elden shart not having a pvp zone is a travesty
trust the plan
multiplayer chalice dungeons with meaningful rewards in the dlc
I support your message but despise the language you used to convey it.
Belltower pvp was literally perfect and fixed everything about the forest covenant in the first Dark Souls. You couldn't gank invaders with phantoms anymore since the spawns were on different floors and you got a constant rush of invasions from all sides. It was just pure chaos and that's what pvp should be.
>fighting game with invasions
>random scrubs playing SP arcade mode suddenly get A NEW CHALLENGER HAS APPEARED as if someone walked up to your machine and put a quarter in
kek do it
unlike in souls, fighting game players generally don't enjoy stomping people significantly worse than them. They're not in it for that kind of cheap kick, it's literally a waste of time.
Dunno what you're on, but fighting game players love tricking people into playing their game and stomping them. I've seen it on this very board for Granblue and Guilty Gear Xrd / Strive. Don't make fighting game autists out to be saints. They aren't.
that's why i said generally, it's far less common simply because the genre doesn't attract that kind of player.
Meanwhile in souls you have people specifically in it for the trolling factor which is why those people still pine for invasions when fight clubs and shit like the arena exist in ER. It's also the only place you get the weird inverted logic of invaders calling invadees the 'gankers' as if they weren't the one that initiated the encounter.
generally the intention is that they stick and improve.
>wow he rinsed my ass like a mad man, I wanna learn how to do that too!
kinda like that, but the wast majority of people want to win right away
thats a fricking lie
Tons of them run multiple accounts even to stomp lower brackets
netcode is too dogshit for it to be fun beyond a gimmick
My favorite is that item that allows you to teleport during invasions. Just when the enemies think they have you, you're not there. Fricks with them good.
BASED
that was the first time I saw zamor ice storm in pvp and now I feel moronic for never bringing it
souls would be so much better if it didn't use that moronic rolodex style ui for skills and consumables. It's clearly a controller cope because unlike a keyboard where you can give everything a different bind, tabbing through a menu is the best it can do.
how would you feel about a lords of the fallen style system where you could bind spells to quick slots on the D-Pad with a button hold allowing you to access them, sorta like elden ring's quick menu but for combat, i think it would solve a lot of the issues the rolodex style has especially if quick slots could also have their own stuff to cycle through
i always thought it was kind of intentional, since otherwhys magic would be way to OP (already is kinda) PVP and PVE
True. Wish someone invented modifier keys and radial menus already.
I did some shenanigans with keyboard macros in Elden Ring.
Had 1 for heal, 2 mana, 3 mount, and bound a few spells to other numbers.
If one would delve deep into AutoHotkey, i think something close to a full keyboard support could be achieved.
If Fromsoft actually does do a spell-centric game, they really need to come up with a better system.
Souls controls made me hate Sekiro
Only being able to access 1 special move and having to flip through your ninja tools when they're supposed to be quick counters for different shit was obnoxious
It was, until hackers ruined it.
Hackers? What did they do?
Noclipped Dark Souls 3 into offline mode only and made sure From made invasions invite only permanently in their future games so they don't have to constantly monitor for hackers in their old games. Good job ruining invasions for everyone, fricking morons.
What even is the point of hacking in a video game? What do they get out of it? Are they just so shit they need 1337 haxorz to win? Are they trolling? Is some of it corporate espionage/sabotage? Streamers I can get, nobody wants to watch a shitter that isn't DSP.
Obviously they get off on ruining someone else's fun, it's not rocket science, they just want to harass and hurt strangers.
Griefing. Actual pvpers go to arenas/duel areas and fight other pvpers/duelists. You can clearly see how relatively unpopular pvp is by how few of these spots and players exist.
Malcolm reynolds is fun to watch
Haha get fricked. The irony of you gays
>he thinks FromSoft gives even a single frick about pc-only problems and that it has anything to do with why invasions are invite-only now
>PC only problems
Lmao
In ~2000 hours of pure invading in ER+DaSIII on PS5/4 I've only encountered 2 hackers. So yeah, I'm gonna call that a pc-only problem. Same with the thousands of laggy chinks and other 3rd-worlders, also a pc-only issue.
Baaaaased
I think I have encountered less than 10 actual hackers in the time I've been invading since Dark Souls PTDE. That's one (1) hacker a year, and I've never encountered the hackers that try to flag your save file with dummy items, etc. But people cheat consumables in, yes, although Elden Ring has nothing as bad as siegbraus.
And because I know someone's going to reply with ">stormhawk axe", I only had it because I was learning the Leyndell elevator skip for the first time, and I didn't have anything other weapons with enough active frames to test whether the password phantom was lagging or cheating there. It's why I'm fatrolling with it.
Hacker issue isn't much of an issue in Elden Ring because again, "invasions" are invite only. So you can only blame yourself when a noclipping red dude in the sky instakills you. And From is never going back to non-voluntary invasions because the hacker problem got so bad in DS3.
That doesn't make any sense, because the host isn't choosing who they invite into their game by summoning
But the host chooses to press Yes on the red name on the ground.
how did you manage to get off the short bus when your chin is too wide to fit through the doors, timmy
Ironically I've only ever dealt with hackers as an invader in ds2, people turning on God mode and spamming r1 until i golf swung them off a cliff/left if there were no death falls in the area
probably not a problem anymore but elden ring had a huge problem of people using hacks and/or exploits to reach places that you can, and using the tongue then going afk to farm souls
9/10 invasions would be one of these people and killed off the game pretty quickly for online stuff, then seamless co-op pretty much drove the nail in the coffin for all online play, including normal summoning
It wasn't really a hack or an exploit, you just use your horse to get places that you can't on foot and enable invasions, since you can't use the horse in multiplayer the invaders will never reach you. It's a really stupid oversight but they probably intended horses to be enabled in multiplayer and then changed it along the way.
They will probably have worked it out in the DLC.
I found a weird spot in Caelid that I jumped on top of with my horse then enabled invasions, whenever the invaders tried to climb the bolbous looking tree thing in front of me they'd get stuck in an infinite falling state and eventually die from fall damage. I stayed there for quite a while and had a good laugh every time.
clunge
I'd also use the carian retaliation glitch and hide in the environment using mimic's, then when the invaders walked by me they'd instantly die without knowing why. I'd have a good chuckle every time.
Good thing it was fixed then
Yes, but some of my most memorable experiences in these games is finding glitches to frick with people.
I remember the binoocular boost glitch in DS2, I'd make a Sonic cosplay and speed hack around instantly backstabbing people. Or I'd use the powerstance bug to swing my UGS really fast like an axe.
at leas that's a funny use of the glitch
how soulless that i never found anyone doing that, lol
>not only did fromsoft cave in and made Elden Ring an ubishit open world with countless copy pasted low quality activity centers ( dungeons ), they also butchered invasions ( can't be invaded solo unless you use a gay item destroying what made invasions fun ( unpredictability))
Is Fromsoft going to turn into a souless AAA company too?
And why is everything about the online of ER half assed? ( Can't traverse other zones without having to deco and reco, can't ride torrent, can't make a giant party with like 10 players )
They're just yet another 7th gen thing to disincentivize dedicated servers and it takes control over longevity away from the playerbase, since the multiplayer can and will usually be shut down at any time.
Fromsoft got scared after DaS2. It was their first from-scratch (no handholding from another studio either), experimental and ambitious game to come out in the post-retro era.
And it failed.
Since then they have been giving themselves massive safety margins, reusing what works and designing around failure by streamlining everything as much as they can, if it can't be cut or put somewhere else, they don't make it, and every feature starts getting developed in previous games as something that can be scrapped if it's going to be anything resembling a cornerstone for a future title.
They were only good in Demons Souls and Dark Souls initial release, before they started making invasions balanced and dramatically less fun
Dark Souls completely fricked up one of the most interesting covenant invasions though, and that's the Gravelord Swarm covenant, by making it not work until NG+ (what the frick were they thinking?)
Dark Souls II ruined them completely with Soul Memory and the agape butthole required to engage in it
Dark Souls III just turned it into a clunky shitty form of matchmaking with generic boring covenants being added as an excuse to PvP instead of being anything interesting
Bloodborne had barely any invasions and when they did you could just quit to the main menu, no other Souls game let you quit out when invaded, so invader culture there was 99% dogshit except for catching new players out with the cannon in Nightmare Frontier
Elden Ring was just lolkekokay
Next From Soft game should just not even attempt to balance shit and just go back to the "time is convuluted and there's no telling who you will meet" shit
What about armored core 6 pvp?
I'm talking about From Soft games
moron, Armored Core is a FromSoft series.
>invasions are only fun when I can use a +15 BSS against a bunch of mouthbreathers
Filtered
lol this is LITERALLY me right now
man i love that fricking sword
>(what the frick were they thinking?)
I think in an interview they said the idea was that Gravelord enemy phantoms would spice up NG+ playthroughs.
Of course this mechanic wasn't explained anywhere until then.
Gravelord should've allowed you to play *as* an empowered enemy in another player's world.
This is how Doom Eternal's invasions were going to work.
I've wanted an invasion covenant that does that ever since 1.
Alongside other whacky ideas like invading through unclaimed bloodstains, having a copy of the host's loadout when they died, and getting to keep the souls they originally lost if you kill them as their doppelganger.
gravelord is a lot of fun when it's actually working
having black phantom enemies suddenly spawn behind you as you're going through oolacile is brutal
the hunt for the bastard's sign and then the actual invasion where you'll probably be working together with at least one other guy is pretty unique compared to normal invasions or other covenants too
You are the reason nobody takes invaders criticism seriously
God you're pathetic
>balanced
More like pussified
>invade in dark souls
>invader can't sip
>at worst for the host it's a 1v1 since there was an invasion timer, at best it's a 1v3
That's pretty balanced aside from the invader probably having better gear. I don't mind the gear changes they made in the remaster tbh.
Bloodborne and beyond requiring the host to already have phantoms just incentivized gank squads with unscaled phantoms turning invasions from "spontaneous pvp combat" to "predetermined pvp where the invader is fighting tooth and nail against a bunch of cheating homosexuals"
>They were only good in Demons Souls and Dark Souls initial release
ahhh those hyper specific two years that only you and I had fun as invaders... ahhh poor anons will never know... jk I think it's so fricking funny and lame that there are people who insist weird timekept metas like this. Sometimes true, but your criticisms are disingenuous israeli trash kvetch elsewhere demon
>mandatory
MOM, UNPLUG THE ROUTER!
Agreed.
I genuinely don't think I've ever dueled in the arena in any FromSoft game (I don't consider the forest, township, or post-Pontiff dueling), but I've invaded for thousands of hours across all FromSoft games combined. Even when every other invasion is against some guy with Moonveil or whatever, the variety of macro- and micro-interactions is essentially endless because invasions thanks to the level. I will never get tired of kicking people off of ledges, hitting them with pots from a mile away, or outplaying 3v1s.
>get invaded
>dress as an enemy and hide in plain sight
>invaders run right past me several times before returning home
get fricked lol
He trooned out too damn shame
If it was good you wouldn't have to make it mandatory
Invasion is the best mechanic to mod out
Anyone know if Dark souls 3 invasions are more populated then elden ring? Came to elden ring yesterday in over a year and i got a total of 2 invasions in a hour on my lvl 100 and 147.
Guess pvpers were right elden ring pvp is dead. Frick arenas.
DS3 with wex dust is populated as frick on pc at the very least. Did a decent number of invasions not a long time ago.
They're always going to be more populated because FromSoft is moronic and removed half of the gears and shafts that usually make the multiplayer work from Elden Ring
>no covenants
>no multiplayer areas
>no solo invasions to populate the multiplayer pool
>having an active rune arc doesn't make you able to be invaded
>beating bosses doesn't activate your rune arc
>invaders don't drop rune arcs even though hosts do (in a game about tarnished fighting for fragments of the elden ring, by the way)
>multiplayer depends upon co-op but co-op is such a pain in the dick that people install a mod to make it playable
Seriously, there is an area where tarnished form a literal covenant for which they kill other tarnished, where you're invaded FOUR times by NPCs belonging to this covenant, and FromSoft just said
>Nope, not a covenant, not a multiplayer area
Even Bloodborne had multiplayer areas
There is also the fact that in ER the damage is just too insane. At least in Dark Souls 1, you had to give up your back to someone to get instant killed. In ER you are fighting 3 people who are spamming 1 shot kill weapon arts and/or magic from 30 feet away or dual wielding 2 big weapons with RKR jump attacking at you. It's so fricking annoying. Weapon arts were the worst thing they ever created and the normies who gobble that shit up aren't true souls fans. DS3 was a plague that killed Elden Ring pvp.
The weapon art damage for PvP was nerfed by 30%, one shots are way less common and you don't need to pump vigor to exteme levels like it was on launch.
They should make it so that hosts / summons deal less damage to invaders the more of them there are. 60% damage when 3 players are alive, 80% damage when 2 are alive, 100% otherwise. So many instances of
>make 1 singular mistake
>get staggered
>1 mistake becomes 3
>lose 90% of my HP in 1 second
DS3 isn't nearly as obnoxious as Elden Ring, there are no huge oneshot AOEs or projectiles flying around everywhere. It can all be dodged with relative ease and mages are actually quite underpowered if they don't have a charging melee man to back them up.
I just mean because DS3 was the game that took the "we have unique weapons like gold tracer and dragon curved greatsword, let's make every weapon like that!" It just didn't get insane until ER.
I ran through a few NG cycles in September and was still getting covenant summoned and invaded pretty regularly
Invasions are an incredible mechanic and it's such a waste they were created by a studio that clearly doesn't know what to do with them anymore.
>lightning infused dual straight swords
you are a bad person
Ironically i think they are the tamest part of this setup
Now a fricking Guardian Swordspear + offstock? Quickswap to an offhand Endure Caestus or Claws? That's a bully territory.
>and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
opninion discarded
elden ring invasions were fricking horrible
>phantom invades
>disconnect Internet when he finds me
>Lol, lmao even
I love doing this
I am the one wasting your time though.
>someone dcs
>i go right into another invasion
>you are spending time resetting your internet and game
>your friends are raging at you on discord since you now need to summon them all again
>it will take you like 10-20 minutes to do this depending on where you were in the level and where your summoners are dropping their signs
>and then you will get invaded again and have to do it all over again
Keep being a homosexual though. Your tears are delicious.
invades
Internet when he finds me
>>Lol, lmao even
>I love doing this
cool selfie, you will never ever get the satisfaction of ruining my vibe, cope lmao
In theory it's interesting but in practice it's just youtubing for the best build and bugs to exploit on whatever the latest patch is which is really boring and unchallenging. It's a fundamentally broken idea that can't really be solved without disabling the internet
Why are so many anons pretending to have opinions they don't have?
>a dark spirit has inva-
Gonna need a QRD on this
>Invasions are the best mechanic invented in any videogame and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
That'd be location based damage and digital appendage/limb removal associated. Headshots/tail chops are peak.
>Wish more games included invasions without an ability to turn it off.
In the modern year 20XX? It'd blunder.
>Game journos get murdered and can't review the game
>Bribed to say it's good.
>ANON INVASION SOULS XII BOMBS DUE TO 75% PLAYER REFUND RATE.
No opt out would get word and the game would be dead minus people who suck at fighting games using it as a fighting game.
>cool selfie, you will never ever get the satisfaction of ruining my vibe, cope lmao
funny choice of words from the one coping about his inability to git gud
>malding so hard xe's scared of replying properly
cope sissy, lmao
Invasions were only for the insanely mentally ill, as the constant mald threads about seamless coop constantly proved.
>Made it mandatory
>Has to be online always
How to spot a low IQ poster.
>comes home
>turns on pc
>turns on controller
>turns on steam
>turns on internet
>turns on elden ring
>agrees to online terms and agreements
>starts the game in online mode
>uses summoning flower
>summons another player
>wow wtf why am i being invaded this is literally rape
>You can play the game offline even after clicking all the hecking online terms
UHHH???
name me an adventure game where you can do this
Simply spectacular
>YOU WERE INDICTED
no greater insult, no higher praise
Are there many games with stealth PVP? I know Hitman has a multiplayer mode but I remember it being bad
Arkham Origins had a cat and mouse esque multiplayer but from what I remember it was pretty inactive and also really unbalanced. Playing as the goons on one side was hard unless you were sweating your balls off since it was a 1HKO, and playing as the heroes was tough because you get matched with a random mouth breather in the lobby and if he's trash then good luck taking on 6 other guys ready to gun you down + lag.
I've heard the Assassin's Creed MP was also pretty good, Brotherhood or maybe Unity? I forget which. But the guys on Ganker talk about it sometimes and they seem to have enjoyed it.
>Assassin's Creed MP
Dude it was the best.
So much fun just messing with the enemy team.
It had a massive focus on you using your items and awareness rather than brute force. And it was one of its kind when it was first introduced, so it felt like a fresh playing ground.
Alot of the time was just seeing how you can rack up the most points on some dude you already clocked as hiding in the crowd.
Arkham Origins really did have potential. But I would have done it way different while keeping the same dynamics.
>entire SP map in MP, or limit it to 1 island for smaller games
>lobby fills with 5-10 players per gang + 2 for Batman and Robin
>gangs are given their own objectives across Gotham
>>>gun running, extortion, robberies, competing with rival gangs for resources
>game lasts until all gangsters are in custody, first gang to achieve all their goals or Batman and Robin die
>due to *bs multiplayer "lore"* All Bat-tech besides comms and what's in their utility belts are offline(no batmobile or batwing)
>playable supervillains can still enter the battlefield but idk how to make that mechanic fun, maybe just a timer like og Battlefront 2 that randomly selects a gangster to take control
Sniper Elite 5 has a stealth pvp invasion mode
I came here to mention SE5. It has the most fun invasions. I think solo players are locked out of something if they don't opt-in, and obviously co-op players can't opt-out at all. Add in the killcam shit and it honestly did not get old.
might buy it since it's on sale. not really my bag, but it sounds quite fun based on that description.
it's not my usual type of game either but I can't even tell you how much fun I had playing the invasion mode.
Mercs vs spies in splinter cell
Condemned 2 had cat and mouse type online game modes it's a shame the PC version never materialized it's one of my favorite games of all time
Mgsv had imo fun pvp stealth, sneaking around with invisibility and Fulton punching people was the shit.
Ass Creed had a genuinely unique and fun stealth mp. It was lovely to wait in the crowd for some schmuck to pass you by and poison them undetected.
I don't get why it got so much hate.
Last of Us 1 had semi-stealth mp which was a way better game in itself than the original one.
Bamham multi was similiar to Ass Creed and also fun, but very janky. I enjoyed it when I grinded it for the platinum trophy.
Splinter cell. Idk which one but there was a mode where one team controls spies that had to hack nodes and the others tried finding and killing them. I love asymmetric pvp. It was kino jank
invasions have been pure shit since their inception, nothing more annoying than this bullshit mechanic and every single iteration has had dog shit balance or rules surrounding it
frick off, i'm playing a pve game and i gain fricking nothing by defeating you
>frick off, i'm playing a pve game and i gain fricking nothing by defeating you
people who say things like this are in no danger of defeating anybody in pvp so don't even pretend. mad cuz bad
i don't have to meat you standards Black person it's my game to enjoy and you can go invade the concrete after a swift jump off a skyscraper
it's shit design, the invadee gets nothing of note but they do get a potentially massive jump in difficulty
>the invadee gets nothing of note
if you weren't a ltitle b***h you might have some fun but c'est la vie
>erm just le do it for le fun?
no, reward me for dealing with a challenging enemy
But you do get rewarded for killing an invader? And what more challenging enemy is there than another actual person? Remember that invaders are just people, ordinary people. You'll get your ass beat at first but they're still just normal people, they didn't get to where they are by magic and you can get there too. I really don't understand this 'flip the table' attitude you and other people share. Like you don't understand the game so you assume the game is unfair and flip the table (unplug your internet).
It's just a game, it's not that serious. And its actually super fricking fun when you get good enough to actually fight back against invaders and win.
have a flower
they really should give rune arcs for killing invaders though
>the invadee gets nothing of note
the host gets the strongest buff in the entire game: another player
at least in elden ring
>the host gets the strongest buff in the entire game: another player
except you get invaded easily when not summoning at all (at least in the souls games) and there isn't even a skill based matching system to make sure you still don't just both get stomped
you don't get rewarded for killing an invader beyond maybe sometimes getting some estus back, which you already had anyway
> And what more challenging enemy is there than another actual person?
yes that's what i meant
>It's just a game, it's not that serious. And its actually super fricking fun when you get good enough to actually fight back against invaders and win.
nah it annoys the shit out of me and i've played hundreds of hours of dark souls games, it literally never has been properly balanced and always devolves into a tedious crawl through a level that was reasonably enjoyable before
>skill based matchmaking
you don't understand the point of souls
go ahead and enlighten me then
the multiplayer is designed to be about chance encounters between players that create memorable but impromptu interactions. at least in demon's and dark souls, but password summoning and "uninterrupted co-op with my friends" had ruined that by dark souls 3 (and was only made worse with elden ring). interactions like
>i summoned some guy for radahn and i landed the final hit on the boss because he sacrificed himself
>i was invaded by some guy cosplaying dung eater and all he did was throw poop at me
>i summoned some guy cosplaying patches who dropped warming stones for the boss
>i was invaded by someone who killed me by shooting explosive barrels
>i was invaded by some tryhard and my friend and i beat him even though we started the game an hour ago
etc.
in the same way that the game isn't difficult and is therefore instead about preparation and learning from one's mistakes to overcome challenges, the multiplayer is at its best when it's not being played as some sort of gay 1v1 test of skill. invasions are a novel challenge that manifests by chance, like a randomly-generated miniboss that's free to think and wander around the level. it's just a different challenge to overcome, and dark souls 3 and elden ring both give the host ample means to overcome that challenge (30% bonus HP from ember, summons). SBMM would go against the spirit of dark souls by ruining those interactions as a result of the developer, not just the player (who treats undead burg invasions like MLG gaming, as an example). it would sanitize them, make them "safe", and in doing so sanction the exact tryhard competitive mentality that is killing them.
tl;dr i don't remember what it felt like when i killed O&S on my 100 different DS1 playthroughs, but there are novel multiplayer interactions - co-op or invasions - that i still remember from DS1 a full fricking decade later. there is basically nothing else like it in vidya from what i've experienced.
memorability isn't inherently evidence of something being worthwhile or entertaining though, i'm glad you had a good time but to me it's always been aggravating nonsense that wasn't properly balanced and mostly a waste of time, i think they could work with some changes maybe but i'd have to really sit down and think about how you can possibly make it not annoying as frick to have your pve progress stunted by unpredictable (barring few exceptions) pvp encounters
i would attribute that to the game doing an incredibly poor job of teaching the player the fundamentals of PVP interactions. honestly, i don't think it teaches you anything except that you CAN be invaded. that isn't to say that they don't try, in their own moronic way. after all, Alberich (whom you have to defeat to the get the "please invade me" item) is using a fricking cold-infused scythe with sword dance and can invade you at any level. he is a fricking twink.
anyways, red NPCs walking at you and pressing R1 when they're in range doesn't teach you anything. they don't space or time their attacks. they don't feint. they don't even do nothing (which is as important as doing something). the only human behavior they exhibit is mashing R1 and attempting to heal despite being in punish range. so when you're invaded for real, you're thrown into the deep end without the awareness that you probably have the capacity to swim because these mechanics are actually very basic.
there are multiple issues, of course. early on invaders have a huge equipment advantage against a lone player: flasks, flask upgrades, consumables, weapons, and rings / talismans. status effects. this is against a lone player, however. you know what's a bigger advantage than all of this? having 2 guys hold R1 in the direction of 1 guy, even if all those guys know how to do is hold R1. it feels pointless to talk about how "annoying" elden ring invasions are when hosts get the biggest benefit in any invasion, yet their deaths most often result from not knowing that all they have to do is do running attacks at the bad red man at roughly the same time. i think they actually tried to teach you this with the nerijus / yura invasion in Limgrave, where you go from potentially getting your ass kicked by nerijus to kicking his ass as soon as yura is summoned. but there's little evidence that this lesson was effective.
it trains you poorly
an actual example, albeit an extreme one because the hundred times i've been gunned down in the streets by 1 guy with a halberd running at me while his friend spams magic is not worth saving
>that massive lag and stuttering
I feel so bad for the people that unironically play Souls pvp on pc
it just works
>Getting through Blighttown the first time
>Invaded and killed (not Maneater Mildred) before I ever reached the floor bonfire
>Filtered cause it was the farthest I ever got in it.
Never bothered online again. Plus the game has fake invasions anyway
>there isn't even a skill based matching system to make sure you still don't just both get stomped
The solution to that is to increase your own skill so that it always matches that of your opponent.
>le git gud
no, it's not fun enough to get good at, the entire mechanic is not rewarding enough to engage in, i will simply do whatever is fastest to get you out of my game
>it's not fun enough to get good at
It is when you get good enough to actually kill people though. It's a steep learning curve but isn't that the point of Dark Souls?
and for what, i gain nothing by killing the invader, what is the fricking point
>It's a steep learning curve but isn't that the point of Dark Souls?
no? dark souls pve is literally just press b to iframe
>no? dark souls pve is literally just press b to iframe
haha ok I bet you beat the game first try no deaths. why even play the game if it's not challenging to you? the story isn't that deep. I truly don't understand your perspective here man. if all you care about is the lore and the story then just watch youtube and read the wiki.
literally the only thing you need is reaction speed in dark souls, positioning doesn't matter at all, sure i died a couple died my first time through each game, but they're really not hard
in pve it is yes, in pvp it's that + lag
>i died a couple died
died a couple times
If you're good enough to beat dark souls 1 with less that 10 deaths then you're good enough to not shit your pants when you get invaded. I'm serious. It's not that scary. You must be experiencing some mad cognitive dissonance.
>I am so good at this game that I can beat it easily without dying much on my first playthrough
>I am not good enough at this game to beat ANY OTHER PLAYER so I will disconnect from the internet if I encounter one
How do you hold both of these positions at the same time? Literally don't get you bro.
lol ye, the game even trains u with npc invasions
the difference in difficulty between the average boss encounter and the average pvp player is massive, and i stand to gain nothing from killing the player, why would i bother, it's not like the combat is that deep or exciting, souls games are at their best when you're focusing on building a specific type of character
>but I NEEED to get something out of it
People like you were whining they were forced to pvp to get cool covenant stuff, now we're here.
You get the satisfaction of being better than the guy you defeated.
It's a reflection of how far you have come.
And you know it's better than any predictable boss - it's another human being. This is also the reason people are afraid of invasions, the "I beat it in less than 10 deaths" type, they are protective of their God-gamer ego which gets shattered whevener they lose to another player, it makes them feel inferior.
In short, only people who hate invasions are sore losers.
>People like you were whining they were forced to pvp to get cool covenant stuff, now we're here.
>You get the satisfaction of being better than the guy you defeated.
>It's a reflection of how far you have come.
lmao honestly kinda pathetic, i don't care about being better than other players enough to invest the time to develop real skill, i've done so before in many other games
>I'm so good at games
>just not at this one
>you're the one who's pathetic
Lol. Lmao. You had 15 years to get good at this game. Yet instead of playing the game you chose to play a victim.
you keep assuming that beating souls games is difficult when it's not, the pve is piss easy while the pvp is always a mess
>pve is piss easy while the pvp is always a mess
That's exactly why it's a pvpve game.
It's pvp and pve at the same time, not separate for pvp and pve.
If you stop doing everything and hold your ground whenever you see a red man invading you - you're playing the game wrong.
>It's pvp and pve at the same time, not separate for pvp and pve.
it's 95% pve and 5% pvp though, and one exclusively effects the other negatively for the host
It's 95% single player and 5% multiplayer then.
If you play multiplayer it's full pvpve.
fair
>effects the other negatively for the host
first off, affects. second, in what way? you're summoning another player for one of two reasons: so that you can either get help with a boss (in which case, just fricking summon them outside of the boss fog like you can 90% of the time); or so that you can overcome the challenge of the level together. the invader is a part of that challenge, because he's summoned to compensate for how easy the game is in co-op.
every complaint about invaders "ruining" "pve" in a game where there is no clear divide between pve and pvp (nor has there ever been any) just comes across as whining because you're forced to fight an enemy that can potentially fight back when faced with 2 players.
getting invaded doesn't require you summon
it does in elden ring which is the most relevant game to this discussion because it's the newest and most popular
elden ring isn't the most relevant at all the thread is about invasions as a mechanic in general
>op image is elden ring invasion item
your autism beam is faltering
can you read you stupid Black person?
>i stand to gain nothing from killing the player
You gain fun. When I beat another person at a game I have fun. Maybe you don't and that's fine.
I'm going to leave it here because I think I've made my point pretty clearly and it's also clear that neither of us are going to agree or change our minds. I hope that when the ER DLC comes out or ER2 or Dark Souls 4 or whatever you give it another chance because you might have fun. But you probably won't so whatever. Have a good one.
you're allowed to disagree that's fine, it's just not fun to me at all, i think maybe it could be with some changes, something that perhaps would lead me to actively invite invaders into my game, perhaps if there were no risk of losing pve progress it would be alright
with that logic you should be doing something productive with your time. What's the point of games if you aren't playing for fun.
i play a lot of games, i love video games and dark souls is mostly pretty fun, literally the biggest fun-killer since the series inception has been invasions
>the difference in difficulty between the average boss encounter and the average pvp player is massive
the average invader is a moron carried by crutches that rapidly fail to carry his weight past level 20
and even good pvp players (like this guy who was cool but pulled out the rot pots) still lose to 2+ players attacking them at the same time. in this case, with one of the worst weapons / weapon attacks in the game for chasing someone down (2h greatsword).
It depends highly on skill. The more people invading the better because it means there's a wide range of difficulty in interactions. When invading sucks balls only the very best players even bother so suddenly getting invaded means PvPAutistK***ht has come to ruin your day.
I tried to help my friend get into invading and even with an experienced player explaining everything it was too frustrating for him to go up against gank squads or even normal 2v1s and 3v1s. He preferred taunter's tongue 2v2s. Invading in Elden Ring is a horrible introduction to the concept.
>go to Liurnia and do Varre's quest because you want to farm the bird
>pop finger
>die to level 300 password phantom
>pop finger
>die to an "honest" 2v1 / 3v1 before you know how to use the level
>pop finger
>die to an honorable bonfire duelist with Morgott's great rune at the crab shack
So yeah, it filters out potentially average invaders and leaves only twinks, giga-twinks, and Gregor.
Yea it was a better experience for new players in DS1 and 2 as nobody really knew what the frick they were doing and there weren't any overpowered password summons stinking up every invasion, you could just go grab some OP shit and oneshot people without much strategy or thought. Elden Ring demands a lot more from the invader and invading becomes a lot less popular as a result.
DS1 invaders were absolute bullshit once ppl saw you can stay low level and just get +15 weapons and 99 softH to have 99 phys defense.
That's why they became these "red man in comming, better jump off a cliff or dissconnect" memes that still get propagated to this day.
FROM's take was that "barely anyone" will be able to kill 4kings at slow level and get the red orb, so twinks wouldn't be that common. How wrong they were.
It was complete bullshit but I remember getting invaded by one of those guys when I first started playing and thinking "hmh, I want to do that."
So I did, and I was hooked on invasions ever since.
I imagine someone getting invaded in ER by a shitty underpowered red that dies instantly at the hand of his level 300 password buddy and thinking "man I'm glad I'll never be like that guy."
I did some DS1 twinking but it was soo broken that it got old fast, so I did cosplay builds where I only abused armor upgrades and 99SoftH to make myself a miniboss style knight or darkwraith, with no weapons upgrades at all.
Same, I loved that shit. I still have GFWL messages from my cosplay builds, mostly positive. I also had a few non-cosplay builds which were intentionally gimped. Basic stuff like leather armor and a +2 spear in Undead Parish.
It's especially pathetic because a lot of Elden Ring invaders are tryhards so it's even sillier to watch them lose despite all their crutches.
Invaders are tryhards because COOPers and gankers are tryhards. I see it all the time when ocasonally doing COOP on Godrick and COOPers are huge twinks with the Meteorite Staff and every magic buff they can stack, killing Godrick in 30 seconds.
Then as an invader you see shit like RL300 password phantoms in Limgrave that gave the host endgame weapons so they can spam weapon arts and demolish easy minibosses in 2 hits.
It's true, but people will still say it's a chicken and egg thing. Like when you step precisely 1cm backwards, you have the perspective to realize that one party has unique advantages that include shit like
>You can literally ignore stat requirements to use every weapon, spell, and the heaviest armor in the game at "level 1"
>You have up to 3.5x the healing of the opponent
>There are 2, 3, or more of you with no friendly fire in a game where every build has projectiles
vs.
>You might get lucky and spawn in an area with a banished knight or something instead of Radahn's beach
>You can teleport away with a long animation when you're getting your ass beat
Now, I'm not going to say which party is which, but there's a clear winner here. Emphasis on unique because anyone can know how to PVP, or inflict status effects, or use consumables - unless you're designing your entire PVP experience around protecting level 1-20 hosts in the starting area.
>fingerprint shitter gets absolutely demolished by shield poke
Love to see it.
who would win in a fight
>50 pounds of pure stone etched with the madding scrawl of an imprisoned avatar of indiscriminate destruction
or
>pic rel
Did they buff kick? I haven't touched ER since they made the "invade at long range" change.
I don't think I've seen to fail it break a guard yet, although I doubt that anyone's running the greatshield talisman
Well frick you then. Stop replying to me already. I don't want to continue this convo with you man. You are just no fun.
It's so hard to distinguish bot posts from schizophrenic third worlders.
>Elden Ring demands a lot more from the invader
Going between ER and Dark Souls games is a bit of a whiplash because fighting three guys rushing you with like two dozen estus flasks combined is a lot more tedious than popping into the Belltower and getting down to business.
3v1s in DS3 are WAY more manageable because magic and weapon arts aren't as strong as spammable.
Plus there's no annoying constant jump attack spam and thus way easier to parry overconfident ganks rushing you.
And most levels have geometry to hide behind to frick over casters as well as good locations to ambush, even if they're tryhards that have completely clearer the level of enemies.
I probably win 60% of my 3v1s in DS3 compared to 20% on ER.
>3v1s in DS3 are WAY more manageable because magic and weapon arts aren't as strong as spammable.
You can also abuse estus cancelling too, which helps.
I never bothered to learn how to do it because it's lame.
But I also never felt I needed to use it, most of the time I die I manage to chug all my estus.
It's required when you run into the pontiff/forest dudes that are all doing it too. I tend to not use it on people I know aren't very good.
I use Wex Dust and blacklisted those area because there's just too many fight clubs and I just wanted regular 2v1s or 3v1s in the regular dungeon levels.
I did some DS1R invasions late last year and it's night and day between the two. I made two builds: 1.) a dumb lifehunt scythe build with no poise because I was curious about how well the bloodshield and bloodbite ring would synergize with it and 2.) a half-optimized build with 51 poise and a lightning murakumo. Even though one was much, much better than the other, you wouldn't be able to tell if you were looking at the win:loss rate of both because both were fricking 95%. I basically couldn't lose with the exception of freak accidents.
Very basic knowledge about DS1 PVP let me outplay so many other players even though I hadn't touched the PVP in years - nor am I very good. Elden Ring is less like outplaying other players, and more like outplaying the arbitrary bonuses that AI get in 4X games. You're basically playing invasions on Deity (or maybe King in Limgrave). It's really un-fun and if you ever walk away from it for more than a month or so, it's difficult to ignore the low lows despite the high highs of outplaying an experienced 3v1 despite their advantages.
tl;dr they overcorrected in Elden Ring when DS3 was relatively balanced, and I have no idea why other than that multiplayer was an afterthought due to problems during development or deciding to appeal to a wider audience.
Level 50 lifehunt scythe with gold tracer burritos is really fun. With good timing (or the other person having really shit ping) you can get 2 hits off the gold tracer and usually proc big bleed.
Wow, that's lenient. Elden Ring weaned me off of burritos because they basically never work unless you're doing some weird shit with an off-hand parry dagger.
It's also fun to use that for backstab chains instead of the parry tech.
>head cut in half
>actually a parry
>they overcorrected in Elden Ring when DS3 was relatively balanced
People were saying this exact thing about DS3 when DS3 was new. Once people are as comfortable with Elden Ring as they were with DS3, they'll probably say that it was the real balanced experience and DS3 was too easy and Miyazaki's new asymmetrical PVP is totally unfair and too hard for the aggressor and too forgiving for casuals. I'm already there. DS3 invasions are fricking braindead with the two-hit R1 stunlocks and third R1 parries. If the people you're playing against don't know how PVP works, they'll just kill themselves trying to fight you. It's barely a step above DS1 curbstomping, worse if you're scum enough to estus cancel.
This is the real redpill. The invasions are really only fun during the beginning. Once the meta is solved, it gets stale as you either stay a shitter and lose all the time or you learn the intricacies and techniques but then 90% of everyone you fight against is a shitter that you knowledge check.
It's like a fighting game, but without any matchmaking. Whereas launch week is just hectic spontaneous fun.
They're still fun to me. I find joy in using dumb builds that reveal themselves to me in dreams against overleveled password phantoms. The more meta everyone else is, the better.
I'll never understand why anyone in either camp believes that non-challenge-item solo host invasions should return. 99% of the time it's some hapless innocent that gets bodied by an invader AND enemies.
it's better
In the same way that DS1's lack of scaling for invasion matchmaking was "better", yes.
Literally just to populate the multiplayer pool. That's it.
If we consider the "solo invasions if you have a great rune acyive" idea, does having +40 extra levels and a higher weapon level than the invader not enough?
40 levels & double flasks doesn't help against getting stunlocked to death by an enemy plus the invader. It's a second cooperative player (that makes the PvE too easy without an invader) which keeps things "fair" for non-insane hosts.
I'm saying this as a frequent invader, by the way.
A system like DS3 where you have ocasionsl solo invasionas with a long cooldown would be fine, 90% of DS3 invasions are still 3v1.
And a solo host will never run into enemies if there's a red around, plus he can always equip/activate the blue summon thing and get a blue in record time.
>If the people you're playing against don't know how PVP works, they'll just kill themselves trying to fight you. It's barely a step above DS1 curbstomping, worse if you're scum enough to estus cancel.
Randoms in 3v1 R1spamming with different weapon classes/spells can still destroy you if you misstime your shit once or twice. And getting 2 partial parries can leave you with 0 stamina and combo'd to death if you're not full on HP.
But it's not even in the same planet as DS1 maxed weapons + 99softH + maxed armor + 99 humanity consumanles as heals
Even in the mid and endgame vs players that were nearly done with game you'd take like 1/4 the damade they did and completely dab on them like it's nothing.
hey
just understand that you don't truly understand games when you play down live, unscripted improvisational gameplay like that
the rest of you:
remember this post. it's all about live, unscripted gameplay through (learned) improvisation. i learned this many years ago after playing two decades of recreational sports. it's the same fricking thing, only with a controller
vaguely autistic but still true. this is why i love invasions, they're the peak of improvisational gameplay. it's like a spectrum. on one end you have traditional 2D fighting games, then 3D fighting games slightly closer to the "improvisational" end but still firmly structured, then you have a platform fighter like Melee closer to the middle, but still structured. then on the less structured side you have games like TF2 where there's far too many variables to account for even in a competitive context, and then at the end you have invasions. little to no execution (the closest thing to a combo route in Elden Ring is like 4 fricking hits ending in a 50/50), but so wildly unpredictable that it becomes entirely about out-improvising your opponent. (something like AoE2 is probably smack-dab in the middle.)
you don't know where you're going to spawn. you don't know what enemies you're going to have. you don't even know if you're going to have enemies. you don't know if the host if rune arc'd, or if he has summons, or if those summons are level 300 or not until they hit you for health your health with 1 R1. you don't know if they're unironically mentally moronic, you don't know if the controller just got handed to big brother with 2,000 hours in DS3 gank city. that's the beauty of invasions: they're so wildly unpredictable that it's impossible for them to get old if you have a shred of creativity yourself.
oh also dark souls pvp is literally just press b to iframe so your argument is silly through and through.
>get a large mass of souls
>get humanity/ember/rune arc
>get the satisfaction of beating someone
What is it with you mentally ill people that NEED the game to tell you that you progressed with some reward? Games are meant to be played for fun and satisfaction, not for in game rewards. I swear this style of thinking spawned with MMOs and only MMO Black folk need to feel like they are constantly being showered in gifts to have fun.
>get a large mass of souls
you actually don't get that many outside of high levels at which the amount of souls required to level up increase exponentially (thereby affecting souls from invaders)
>get humanity/ember/rune arc
you don't get rune arcs from killing invaders in elden ring. which is exquisitely fricking moronic. like holy shit.
>get the satisfaction of beating someone
brother we're talking about people who can't even understand the satisfaction of beating bosses alone, deaf ears
>You get invaded easily when not summoning at all
Maybe that was true in fricking Dark Souls 1.
except on old souls games you actually don't get invaded much because the number of players who are able to be invaded at any given time vastly outweighs the number of invaders. elden ring has the opposite thing going on which is why co-op gets you invaded instantly.
You can ONLY invade co-op players in Elden Ring, anon. Not without jumping through hoops on the host's side.
I'm still salty Doom Eternal scrapped its Invasion mode.
yeah it was moronic to remove it
oooooops
You probably waste more time doing that than what you would have if you just take the L and die like a man and run back to where you were in the level.
it's not about saving time, it's about protecting his fabrege ego
it's about wasting your time, I have nothing to lose
>wasting your time
>host gets two loading screens
>invaders gets one
you lose lmao
What if I want to just play a single player game and don't want to get raped by some weirdo with a hyper optimized twinked out character and a weird superiority complex
Play offline then. You can handle the game without being carried and handheld by some hyper optimized twinked out character right?
Better idea. Seamless Coop. Invaders can seethe lmao
>Verification not required
better idea stop releasing fromsoft games on pc
Better idea. 9999 estus mod.
If you're gonna cheat, might as well go big or go home.
Might as well load up your trainer too. Better yet just no clip to the last boss and 1 shot him. Better yet uninstall the game if you hate playing it so much.
>Make it so homosexuals can't play with you
>"C-c-cheating! Might as well not even play the game if you won't play with me!"
Lol, lmao
>cheating
yup
Ok Black person
Play offline
I was going to say that no one implied it's just invasions, but the original post did. Incentives should exist for all forms of multiplayer.
You aren't subject to invasions in ER unless you have a summon or use the Taunter's Tongue.
You sound like someone who Alt+F4 when they are killed by a random crit in TF2.
>Buy Darks Souls 6
>Enter the third area, the Forest of Abandonment
>Suddenly get invaded by someone who has played the game for 100 hours on a previous character, made a new character, rushed to get the most obnoxious weapons they could, with the most optimized stats and armor possible, and is now smurfing with their twink in a early game area
>Die
>Every time I try to enter the area get invaded by similar twinks
>Uninstall the game
>Suddenly the game's steam reviews bomb and sales drop off massively after the first week
Great idea anon
>every game should have a mandatory always online element
kys
>I'm a tryhard incapable of enjoying video games anymore so I have to ruin everybody else's fun
>has to make up strawmen to seethe at
calm down, enjoy your game
i want people to experience even a fraction of the fun and excitement that i did the first time i beat a human invader
i want that rush for myself again too, i crave the desperate back and forth, the mental battle, plans being made, ruined, and remade, both parties trying to lure the other into their next sadistic death trap
and despite whatever b***hy posts they make on reddit or Ganker after the fact, i know in the moment the other players enjoy it too, it is obvious from how they play
the aggression of a three-man squad is not the aggression of players who aren't enjoying themselves
the only ones not enjoying themselves are the ones who don't even give it a try, who just drop the controller when they get invaded because they've already decided in advance that they refuse to have fun
>videogames are my sole way to feel good about myself and the only time I'm having fun is when I'm winning
>that's why invasions are ruining my fun
>buy souls game
>speedclick through the boring EULA or legal shit before the title screen (I don't read)
>play my game however I want (mostly by abusing a souls glitch to get to level 100+ in less than 10 hours
>play the game with a guide (I don't want to replay it and I don't want to miss any achievements)
>dummon around 3 people per boss (I don't want to deal with broken hitboxes or stick my head in his ass for 10 minutes, I want to appreciate the spectacle)
>get invaded (I turn on cheat engine to give myself infinite poise and infinite health)
>leave the game (by watching a video or booting another game for some quick gameplay)
>get back and message the invaders calling him a pussy for leaving
you're free to waste your time, let me help you in this endeavor
my time is worthless, i enjoy invading in souls
fair enough
Better mechanic coming through,and it's not even close. Video games as a whole would be tens of times more enjoyable if they had this.
Based, invasion isn't even the best mechanic in its own series.
>ruins every secret in your path
Sometimes they're funny, so they're automatically good. Secrets are a meme in this series anyway.
Unironically a good anti-piracy measure. When the pirates scream "HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW THERE WOULD BE A ROLLING BOULDER THERE?" while all the buygays saw the messages "be wary of trap".
getting killed by the boulder is part of the fun.
>and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
Who told you to pretend otherwise?
Bellbros in 2 was some amazing fun
>always get to engage in jolly cooperation with your fellow bellbro
>small area so no pussyfooting hiding and running
>tons of people going through to get to gargoyles so you always had fresh victims
The only thing that might come close is post Sully with Aldrich Faithful where you could regularly max out slots between dickwraith, AF, grapebros, and the inevitable two phantoms following the host.
Low level invading in Elden Ring is literally the most fun I've ever had in video games ever.
I invaded in that area below Stormveil Castle where the worm boss spawns. When you invade you normally spawn behind the homies on the way to the boss, so I would frick with them a little bit and throw poison bombs at them or shoot arrows, then when they thought I was up for a fair fight I would run straight past them and drop down into the boss arena. So they either drop down, the boss spawns, and I get to gank them while a huge ass boss writhes around the cramped boss arena, or they try to turn around only to find out that the only way out is forward through the boss arena. At least half of the motherfrickers I invaded would just wait up there, too afraid to jump down and spawn the boss. Sometimes I would wait 30+ minutes while they pussyfooted around trying to shoot arrows at me. Some would even AFK up there thinking they were wasting my time, then I would use the bloody finger to respawn back where they were and backstab them. I wasted so much of their time.
It was glorious.
Stormveil is the definitive dick-ass thief experience. Perfect for prowling around with the trick-mirror on and backstabbing people or kicking them off ledges, especially using the finger like that.
I have a love-hate relationship with that specific section because it's basically a win condition for whoever has stronger autism. I once trapped a really, really sweaty host at the bottom of the long ladder by using the little-known shortcut that lets you get to the ladder without going through the worm arena. He had effectively lost the invasion because his only option was to climb the ladder and die to a volcano pot knocking him off of it. After a few minutes of nothing I walked away to do some housework, and when I came back I decided to try killing him rather than wait. It turns out he was willing to wait like 45 minutes for that exact moment. Autism won.
I always had the autism to wait the host out. It only made it sweeter when I eventually won. Even losing was sweet because I wasted their time.
You reminded me of those times the hosts would try to run past the boss and go straight up the ladder, who I would then pepper with arrows until they lost stamina and fell to their deaths. So sweet.
Bring back DaS1 poise and make the covenants fun again, like Darkwraiths and Darkmoons.
DS1 poise was a mistake
Hyperarmor style poise is objectively better than DS1 poise in every conceivable way. You're mentally challenged.
It's a crappy system that most players don't like and a vocal minority of players absolutely love. Cute idea but most people just want to play the game without laggy SEAmonkeys entering their game. Same goes for the soapstone shit and ghosts spoiling the game.
>first time I played DAS 1
>get invaded first time in the burg
>higher level player
>roll around like idiot and die
>think 'oh well, I guess he got me'
>resolve to do better
>shrug it off and proceed to improve at the game, having fun from my various victories and defeats
Am I some sort of rarity or something? The way people discuss these games they shit and piss their pants while screaming in rage and typing out walls of text explaining how being set back 2 minutes to a bonfire that's probably 30 feet away is tantamount to murdering their firstborn child. Do people really just hold grudges or something? Or is it just a vocal minority of whiners?
Yeah I have no idea why people get so butthurt about dying in series where every game teaches you that it's okay to die in the tutorial. Bizarre behavior.
>first time playing DaS1
>invader hits me with a dagger that instantly turns me into a petrified tree
>forever
>playing a souls game on pc, ever
only yourself to blame
>first time putting an honest effort into Dark Souls 1
>cooping with my buddy in Anor Londo
>about to do Ornstein and Smough
>summon Solaire for even more jolly cooperation
>invaded
>first and only hacker I encountered in any soulsbourne
>didn't even do anything crazy, just invulnerability
>was an absolute shitter
>me, my buddy and Solaire bully the frick out of him
>15 minutes of us backstabbing him, cornering him, stunlocking him by alternating our combos so he's constantly getting hit
>eventually get bored
>let him kill us
>mfw he drops the point down emote
My favorite is coming across people who will attempt to gank you, but as soon as they're alone they disconnect. Just take the loss, so I don't show up again two minutes later.
Camp me grace
Use me arc
>playing chess
>some random third party queen spawns in and starts fricking me up
bad
>playing gtao
>some rando attempts to kill me
normal gameplay
>playing hitman
>balls deep in a hostile area when some rival hitman spawns in and starts pulling fire alarms and firing unsuppressed guns near me to lure in guards
potentially great but in practice probably dogshit
I normally just afk when it happens. I can get back to the game later.
>be you
>play game
>summon friend
>go trough the level, just fine
>suddenly the dreaded message
>it's the Bad Red Man!
>instantly go afk, leaving friend to deal with bad red on his own
>"I'm not there so me losing doesn't count" you cope
>just because you need at least some excuse as to why getting wrecked doesn't diminish your own self-esteem
>"I'm not there" you repeat
>"I was afk" you keep saying
>but deep down you know
>you know that this was just another way to run away from the situation
>because you need it
>because when you lose it hurts you
>so you have to result to this defence mechanism
>you don't care that you could beat the red man if you worked as a team with your friend
>you got demolished by red men before, after all, you're not going to fall for it twice!
>being able to say "oh, I had to walk away for a minute there" to defend your ego is more important than anything.
>sometimes you don't even do anything once you stand up, you just stare at the screen from 2 meters away as you hear the invader killing your friend and then your character
>but you don't see it
>you just stare into the void, thinking about an excuse for yourself, what will you say to your friend, and others online
>"oh I had to answer my phone" or "I felt a sudden urge to make tea" or even "I had to piss"
>but deep down you know
>you know that they know it too
>you're just a pussy who runs away every time
>summon friend
That's where you're wrong. I switch off multiplayer for ER. Great feature.
You don't get invaded solo in ER, nice try.
>inb4 he goes afk every time he fights an npc invader
No, I don't play elden ring multiplayer period, you mong.
>use taunter's tongue
>go afk
DARKNESS, IMPRISONING ME, ALL THAT I SEE, ABSOLUTE HORROR
>open steam profile
>ignore
have a nice day Souls Shitter
>I wish more games were always online
Are you for real
multiplayer games are fun
splitscreen does not require an online connection much less a required persistent connection
I don't get the "It's a PvE game the invasions are an afterthought" crowd.
Souls games have had PVP since their fricking inception. The only Fromsoft game to NOT include PVP in some capacity is Sekiro.
>I don't get the "It's a PvE game the invasions are an afterthought" crowd.
It's true. Dark Souls isn't fricking Halo. Invasions spice up an otherwise standard single player game but go no further than that.
>Doom Eternal decided not to include Invasions because they couldn't stop people from figuring out ways to skip areas
Halo is a single player game you big frickin dummie.
You missed the point of my post
The point of your post doesn't matter because you're fricking wrong Black person
Dark Souls is a PVPVE game. Or a PVEVP game whatever the frick you wanna call it.
invasions were always a major part of the games, what is an afterthought is dueling
in demon's souls you had to beat the whole game and kill the maiden in black at the end to get the red eye stone, while black eye stone is earned after killing any of the NPC black phantoms as early as 2-2 or 3-1
in dark souls 1 the red sign soapstone is hidden deep in a secret area that you can only access after reaching another secret area, the dedicated dueling covenant is also stuffed at the ass-end of one of the biggest secrets in the game, the duel arena was only added with DLC
dark souls 2 is almost an exception but the duel arenas suffer moronic matchmaking rules pitting level 50s against level 800s and the duel items and covenant are again less accessible than invasion items and covenants
dark souls 3 puts the red sign soapstone on a random enemy in the corner of a secret area and doesn't even have a dueling covenant, duel arena is once again locked behind DLC
elden ring added duel arenas in a fairly late update, invasions are once again the dominant PVP mode with the very first person you talk to in the entire game being the representative of one of two invader factions, and you also meet a representative of the other before you get the duelist finger (and you even get invaded on your way to that item)
all of the games have numerous NPC invaders, 2's being especially fleshed out with actual ambush tactics and clever trickery
none of the games have even a single NPC duelist
despite all this, brain damaged fighting game rejects actually believe that the games' PVP is designed around 1v1 duels in flat featureless terrain and it's invasions that are the afterthought
it's true
duelgays in shambles
the more things change the more they stay the same
Unironically it made my dick very hard
In theory I love it. But DeS was the only game I really enjoyed invasions because people would try to play through the stage instead of stopping to fight you. It was easy to roleplay as a badguy in the level, not just meme duels or griefing. The attitude changed after that.
Invade at mid levels.
You can still get this experience even in Dark Souls 3 invading at mid levels. Like level 60 range.
I feel like that's just the experience you get for like two weeks after a new game comes out, after that it's mostly twinks.
Even though it was probably objectively not very good for the game, I still miss DS1 twink invaders when they actually bothered to do theme builds like an Iron Golem or Butcher. Larping as a miniboss instead of being too tryhard was fun.
>I wish more games adopted this mechanic and made it mandatory without an ability to turn it off.
Any game that featured this would be DoA.
>B-B-BU-B-BU-BUT SOULS
Even Souls games realized mandatory invasions are only okay when you have a friend to help you fight them off.
>Des, ds1, ds2 and ds3 were dead on arrival
moron
Lords of the Fallen sold very well for a new* IP with invasions - and unconditional invasions, at that.
* - bury the original reboot
Is LOTF a good game? I miss Invasion PVP. At least good enough?
no
It's complicated. On one hand, the PVP is interesting because every shield and weapon is capable of Sekiro-style deflection which drains players' posture (with small shields having the most lenient frame data, and weapons having the most strict). Depleting an opponent's posture lets you riposte them. I noticed that the "good" players I invaded were passive and would either feint or wait for feints from me - but usually they'd end up eating a fully charged grand hammer R2 because they thought I'd feint. Some melee weapons are fun, ranged weapons (bows, crossbows, thrown weapons) are fun, and magic is fun - but there isn't a lot of build variety beyond the obvious STR, DEX, pure magic, and hybrid builds because of the game's mechanics. But I had fun optimizing my builds. Also solo invasions are very frequent, if you like solo invasions.
On the other hand, the netcode is (was?) abysmal, and it's host-based. I've heard that it was unexpectedly fixed with a recent patch, but I haven't invaded or co-op'd since said patch so I'm going off the word of people who have played. The other issues are all related to balance. Faith builds are very strong, magic is very strong in general, there's no moveset variety within weapon classes (with a few exceptions), there are (were?) issues with the multiplayer scaling because there is no matchmaking, only scaling, etc. I want to give it another go. This video represents the good and bad well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOD4SzJaiPc
As far as the PVE goes, I just enjoyed playing a Souls-like where the levels are more important than the bosses, like they were in Demon's Souls. Manse of the Hallowed Brothers and Sunless Skein contend with my favorite Souls levels, honestly. The graphics and art direction are also great. Obviously I enjoyed the game enough to write all of this for no fricking reason, but it has obvious flaws.
true but they should be in porn games
Dark Souls 1 did it best. It’s been restriction after restriction ever since.
just attack the bad red man, it's not hard
I agree, I've invaded in every souls game for many years now and I can't really enjoy anything else anymore, nothing comes close to the adrenaline-pumping action when trying to take down a squad of sweaty players or the fun moments of running a meme build and troll them to death.
It's peak gaming.
>need to co-op to get invaded
>using the invasion item as solo removes the invasion cooldown so its just nonstop invasions
>no natural invasions while just playing through solo
>no covenants of people invading for wacky reasons, unknown if they'll be friend or foe
>no anti-invaders coming to save you unless you specifically use item
elden ring ruined invasions
its fricking dogshit
>a mechanic that specifically exists to pit little timmy with his +0 straightsword +0 armor just playing the game for the story vs the Black folkLAYER88 with +15 chaos zweihänder and full +10 armor and every spell in the game
>good
lmao, just admit you would get shitstomped if you played against someone competent
Invaders jerk their tiny little phimosis wieners over killing poor little PvE timmies who aren't prepared for invasions, you're too shit for real fighting games which is why you play PvP in a PvE game
It's other way around, moron.
>red man with +0 weapon potted against
>timmy with +3 weapons
>his 2 level 300 friends with +15 weapons downscaled badly who play the game for him
Invading is for homosexuals with no skill or friends.
based on the butthurt level of this post i'd say they might not have many friends but they got more skill than you, scrub
Congrats, moron. Doesn't change the fact no one invited you to play. It's like showing up to a birthday party no one wanted you at and saying,
>"HURRR, SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD A PARTY IF YOU DIDN'T WANT ME TO COME."
It's pathetic, actually.
It's always pretty satisfying to kill a phantom in the early part of the game and find out they were level 150, 220, etc.
>*CRACK* siiippppp
Now Demon’s Souls had some good invasions, I tell you what. The atmosphere of the levels just made everything more exciting for both players. No covenants, no honor. You were there to kill and they knew it.
yeah, too bad it's fricking shit in elden ring, no wonder I was never invaded, you need to have a summon or else you are playing single player the entire game
And in turn the invader is forced to 1v3 most of the time, what a fricking letdown.
but the 3v1s are fun
3v1s are fun if they aren't always the predominant situation you're going to be loading into. Variety is the spice of life.
The only people who hate invasions are coop gays.
How would you change the Blues/Hunters/Darkmoons mechanic?
2 had it right.
>blues are exclusively PVP, they do not engage PVE when summoned to protect a host
>reds gain sin from invading, sin makes them susceptible to blue invasions
>invasions can happen even if the boss is dead, so blues don't have trouble invading reds
Maybe expand on the sin mechanic with regards to how it allows blue invasions. Like if the upper level range for blues invading you scaled with your sin, and went down by an amount proportionate to the level of the blue that killed you. Could also lean slightly into anti-twink measures with that, getting more sin for killing low level players compared to higher level ones.
Literally just go back to ds1 blues.
>I wish more games adopted this mechanic and made it mandatory without an ability to turn it off.
You mean Diablo's enter-and-pk?
God bless soleschlop's innovations.
>and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
why you have to talk like such a fricking homosexual with these pre-made meme culture phrases, you have no personality moron
>you have no personality moron
Prerequisite to playing from games
>What did she mean by this?
>What went wrong?
>This is _, say something nice to her!
>Who is bestgirl and why is it __?
>Why is she so perfect bros?
>blocks your path
>Who was in the wrong here?
>What the frick was her problem?
>Could someone give me a quick rundown?
>(x) company is finished
>(x)gays BTFO
>How will they ever recover?
>Is she, dare I say, /ourgirl/?
>Find a flaw; Protip: you can't
>BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP
>APOLOGIZE
>Explain yourselves
>Well?
>Defend this
>What's her name again?
>Why does she trigger Ganker so much?
>Would you?
>She did nothing wrong!
>Now that the dust has settled...
>How did we go from this...to THIS?
>What was her endgame?
>What am I in for?
>Really makes you think
>How do we fix _?
>OH NO NO NO
>The absolute state of (x)
>What the frick were they thinking?
>(x) bad because...they just are, okay!
>For me, it's _
>Was it kino?
>Redpill me on ___
>(x)sisters...
>Based!
>See this What do?
>Daily reminder
>The perfect girl doesn't exi-
>so...this...is...the...power...of..
>(x)bros... we got too wienery
Bring back actual significant penalties for not being in the game's equivalent of "human form". Demon's Souls had it right, Dark Souls 2 sort of had the same thing but less punishing/more incremental. Players should be given the risk/reward of either playing with diminished health solo, or having full health with the potential for co-op/invasions.
Invasions never worked. In DeS and DaS people would just make low level characters with high level gear so they couldn't possibly die and they one hit all the low level players. It doesn't matter how skilled you are, you are not parrying the invader 20 times to kill them before they hit you once.
Invading in Elden Ring is also fricking horrible because it still gives a massive advantage to the invader. Invaders stroke themselves because they win a 2 v 1 but ignore they fact that there build does 10 times damage as their opponents pve build as they just spam 2 spears (which is the dumbest looking thing you can possibly do) because they are more difficult to dodge through lag. Again skill level doesn't matter in the slightest, if you were to take the same players but swap their builds the loser with 2 spears that takes 10x more damage will win every time.
The idea of invading isn't bad but the invader needs to always be at a disadvantage, not the other way around. Invading should never be seen as a substitute for pvp (which already existsin these games).
Did you really screencap your own post?
elden ring would have been the best fricking game for invasions if 1, they increased the player cap and 2, you actually got more reds more frequently when you invade 3v1
Agreed but what we need for Elden Ring specifically is an auto-summon PvP hotspot like Gank City or the Crucifixion Woods in Dark Souls 3. The multiplayer limit should be increased from 4 to 6 players which should have been the default.
i will laugh if they do nothing for pvp in the dlc
That's what I expect. You can't really go back in and expand the player limit or add in purples and greys without messing with the base game, especially when From DLCs generally stick to adding stuff to the game instead of shuffling what's already there.
we know from known bloodborne build-hoarder lance what's-his-name that the dlc cycle for elden ring was apparently supposed to be two parts
1. coliseum and changes to the existing game world
2. new content
but the former was apparently rolled into the latter. so it's possible the we may see either changes to existing content or something like a "dark world" variant of the normal game.
I love this mechanic just for it's ability to make casuals seethe. Simply because it exists.
I am proud to be the reason for several seamless baby difficulty installations.
elden ring not having covenants is the worst mistake this fricking franchise ever made.
>hey our game has a multiplayer mode that has helped support every single one of our previous titles with it for years and years past its natural life cycle as a singleplayer RPG
>right
>we're talking repeat playthroughs, youtube content, twitch content, online discussion, everything that keeps our game part of the public discourse
>right
>for a fricking decade for dark souls 1
>right
>and we're already dedicating resource to balancing and supporting it post-release
>right
>and there's clearly a massive demand for much more punishing multiplayer experiences with things like extraction games and battle royale which are objectively much more punishing and a "waste of time"
>right
>so i was thinking we make it the worst it's ever been, shunt it off to the side in an unfinished state, so bad that it makes some guy make a mod that completely fricks up our multiplayer ecosystem which is now based entirely on janky co-op that no one wants to play
>perfect
what the frick is wrong with fromsoft
japanese autism, pls understand
it's really nintendo-tier behavior
i sincerely hope so, and it is perfectly understandable. the failure of elden ring's multiplayer is so blatant that i think it's difficult for them to ignore, even despite the language barrier and the impermeable pride of japanese corporate culture. miyazaki gave an interview with IGN a while back where he mentioned he's still fascinated with multiplayer features and was interested in Escape from Tarkov, so here's hoping he reads the writing on the wall that a fromsoft game with properly implemented multiplayer features could be even bigger than they're already getting.
Creating such a big world map took a lot of resources and they even delayed it because the open ended nature of the game lead to a lot of sequence breaking and imbalances, I bet the pvp was simply a corner they could cut to get the game out sooner. All of it will most likely be introduced back into the game with the DLC.
>crying about the mod still
reminder the co-op mod only breaks invasions as a side effect of it being modded stuff. If From had decided to update their multiplayer shit at any time between Demon's Souls and elden ring the mod wouldn't exist
who's crying? i'm just saying that the mod's existence represents fromsoft's failure to adapt to the times (they are a-changin'). i personally think the mod has more to do with how annoying co-op is, rather than the existence of invasions. it also hurts random co-op more than it does invasions because it actively removes players from the pool of players who can potentially summon you - even if you're just a +1 in addition to a password phantom.
so yeah you're right. they took it for granted and it makes sense considering elden ring hobbled to release and was probably very difficult to develop.
COOP isn't annoying, it's just designed for anonymous and quick drop in, drop out sessions as the game is still primarily single player with the COOP as as nitro boost you can use from time to time.
Most phantoms are doing it for a quick way to get a Rune Arc reward when defeating a boss.
Having unlimited multiplayer with hosts that just summon 2 dudes then they run off aimlessly to explore 3 minute tutorial caves and catacombs in Limgrave just leads to confused and bored players that dissconnect.
That's why they're instanced as separate levels, even though the engine is 100% capable of seamless COOP, since the mod just enables it on the map files.
The worst thing is that my normalgay friends don't understand why co-op isn't supposed to be the way the games are played and that multiplayer in general is supposed to be spontaneous occurrences. Then they complain when I don't want to handhold them through the game and spend all fricking day summoning and resummoning and cheating in humanities and etc etc because they keep dying and we keep going to new areas and then i also have to clear my own area speedrun mode so I can go place my sign down again and holy frick why don't my friends just understand??? Frick you, I don't want to play souls with you JAMES.
playing elden ring seamless coop with my brother was an awesome experience, but we both wish we could have had invasions too. Elden ring could have been the greatest pvp if they'd just made full fricking game coop. would have been amazing to have 4v4 groups of friends going at it.
Me when I blatantly lie
Anon Invasions are rare as it is there is no way either of you were edging over the idea of it happening, if you wanted to PVP with your brother you could have
we wanted a good medieval fantasy coop game first and foremost. Not the disjointed summoning in certain areas only bullshit
>we wanted a good medieval fantasy coop game first and foremost.
>complains about disjointed summoning
>but praises the disjointed invading that would otherwise ruin the good medieval fantasy they said they wanted first and foremost
idk about you but in most medieval fantasy stories you go into duels with people on the level as you in honor and not just get shanked by some hacker bot when you werent prepared
Elden Ring dropped the ball everywhere. It's a good thing though, more people need to wake up to this company's bullshit. They've been shitting out mediocre games since DaS2, even DaS1 was literally unfinished.
Always confused me how there's no mechanical difference between the Recusants and Bloody Fingers, beyond different music that plays. Even the Darkmoons and Blue Sentinels had more differentiation in DS3, since Darkmoons would leave after killing one invader (for some reason).
I think Elden Ring was once supposed to have a covenant system but it got scrapped.
Souls PvP gays are the absolute worst.
Players that can't appreciate every aspect of the games are the worst though, no idea why they feel so entitled and superior for ignoring half of what the games have to offer.
invasions were meant for the invader to be a slightly more challenging speedbump, pretty much just a normal enemy with better AI
it became shit when invadergays started trying to make it their entire life and looked for every possible bug and exploit to win
Hosts and co-op'ers have every advantage in their favor (as they should) however what ruined ER's pvp is shit players crying about red man bad and normies who only play the game once or twice then never touch it again who poison the well with shit takes thus ruining it long-term for actual dedicated players who clock in hundreds-thousands of hours into the game.
Pvp isn't a unique idea. Invading a players game isn't something Fromsoft invented.
They're the only ones doing it right
Do I get to share my silly invasion webms in this thread?
Rainbow Stone arrows are the best thing they ever added to this series
Oh shit I didn't know about those, this changes things.
I only invade in really obtuse and silly ways in these games
straight-up PVP is boring
Embrace the SILLY
While silly is a fun way to play it doesn't stand a chance against a dedicated gank squad and overleveled password summons, always gotta have a backup strategy to shit on those players too.
Trust me anon you don't know the real art of invading if you think ganksquads are unbeatable
I didn't say they were unbeatable, you just gotta sweat a lot to do it. I'm not talking about scrubs in stormveil here I'm talking about players with 300+ hours under their belt that know all the same tricks you do.
Nobody knows ALL the tricks
Im just showcasing a bunch of silly stuff
I feel so bad for blues. Hosts that use them are so dogshit and die so fast. Really don't understand why they didn't bring the sinner system back from DS1/2 where blues were actually able to play the game and be cops.
Blues are fine as host/noob bodyguards but we also need the sinner system back and have Darkmoon invasions with a new set of blues of a different shade.
>some guy in a dirty nightshirt
>gank squad
>Oooh piece of candy
Its absurd how effective it is, barely anybody knew about them as they're really niche and hard to discover naturally
They're good, but I prefer the personal touch
>Play DS1
>Get invaded all the time
>DS2
>Get invaded all the time despite Soul Memory
>DS3
>Fricking nothing
>ER
>Fricking nothing even when manually activating it or playing co-op
Step it up invader "chads"
I swear there's something wrong with Elden Ring behind the scenes that fricks with how connections work. Actually, I know there's multiple things wrong with it, but I've only confirmed 2/3. The unconfirmed one is that there's an invasion priority queue that we don't see and it's doing dumb shit like putting co-op'ers in front of people who are using the taunter's tongue. I haven't figured out how to test it other than having 3 people at my disposal to host in obscure areas / ranges where they won't get invaded by anyone but me and doing it over enough time for the internal CD on invasions to reset naturally. Not easy to get people to do.
DS3 is still super active, but unless you summon or use the finger, you can only get invaded solo once per area.
DS3 prioritizes hosts with co-op and you have to be ember'd but you can still get invaded solo i.e it has the best system on paper when the game has a bit more active players. You could also be talking out of your ass because there are also more players still playing DS3 right now than DS1 or DS2 so not sure if you have some sort of agenda here.
ER is opt-in only as a solo host or turned on via co-op i.e. casual friendly troony system.
.
They need to add invasions to hosts that have an Active Great rune in ER and it would be the perfect system.
But only make it active for main dungeons, caves, catacombs etc, otherwise anyone that uses a rune arc in the open world will get constantly invaded and have the horse disabled 24/7.
it's really a simple fix, yeah. hell, just fricking remove open world invasions and let co-op'ers use the horse in peace, no one will miss them except draconic tree sentinel invasions or commander o'niel invasions. actually, just copy lords of the fallen and have invasions be enable in a small area around points of interest like open world bosses, much better.
but nope. wider audience etc. etc. invasions too scary
I agree. I would also add we need an auto-summon hotspot like Gank City or Crucifixion Woods from DS3. And 5-6 players instead of 4 players max so that 3-4 friendlies vs 2 reds is possible without forced 3v1 cancer.
The thing is people like me and you who care about the longevity of the game are preaching into the void here. We need to let that Bamco community manager know so they get the word to Fromsoft themselves. They can be found at the Bandai Namco site or the official Elden Ring discord has an active community manager if I am not mistaken...
They're probably reworking a ton of the base game for Shadow of the Erdtree since they got a lot of feedback about the lack of convenants, the open world invasions being mostly boring outside of world bosses and some unique areas.
That's why it's taking so long.
Man, I hope so. I know the DLC will be worth the wait but I hope they listen to the players on the multiplayer side of things because we are dedicated mofos and will play this game for many years like we did for the previous entries.
t.10+k hours in Souls/Bloodborne
>they got a lot of feedback
bold of you to assume a japanese dev even looks at feedback
Considering all the improvements from patch to patch, yes.
There's no reason to invade in ER.
No covenants to gain rewards from, you can't be invaded solo unless you tongue so invading is almost always gank squads, there are several places you can hide that make it impossible to reach the host, several no-escape rape rooms, ect ect.... invading is futile in Edlen Ring.
90% of ppl do it for fun, the rewards were mostly a nothingburger in DS3, even DS2.
However in ER it's less fun because of all the ganks and long wait times.
In DS3, even today the biggest wait times at SL80 are like 1-2 mins, so even if you get destroyed by a gank, you're in the next invasion almost instantly so you don't dwell on it.
Compare that to ER where you ocasionally wait 10min then get a bunch of First Step gankers spamming Elden Stars, Rain of Starts and Beastjaw weapon art.
who the frick cares about ''''''''''incentives to invade'''''''''', I just do it because it's fun and want to shit on other players.
Is is reason enough for seasoned invaders but players that are new to the game need more reasons for getting destroyed in PvP over and over again.
You should because if there are incentives then people who wouldn't do it for fun naturally would partake in multiplayer thus keeping the game more alive plus it just makes the game and its mechanics more well designed
Having a co-op phantom is the incentive to partake in multiplayer.
It's a disincentive because you have to deal with homosexuals with twink builds
From the invader's perspective there is none so the only people who do it are the ones who already like pvp and are experienced. A huge portion of people don't even want to use summons at all because it trivializes the game so you'll be locked from multiplayer with them. So you end up with a shitty pvp community of the most tryhard invaders invading ganksquads.
Anyone who has an interest in the health of FromSoft's gay little multiplayer ecosystem that they're so determined to design should care. Incentives get players who wouldn't otherwise play multiplayer to at least try it, to dip their toes into the pond; even if only 10% of those that do decide to continue playing multiplayer (whether gold, red, blue, or purple), you now have 10% more fish in the pond. And in the meantime, those other transient fish who will drop the multiplayer after they get their covenant rewards are helping populate it. It keeps fish flowing into the pond, some of which survive and become healthy members of the ecosystem - but all of them contribute to multiplayer activity.
What we have now is an evaporating puddle with a pipe dribbling toxic waste into it, and half of the fish have been removed from the pond so they can live in a nice, clean aquarium where they don't have to deal with the bad red fish or ever say goodbye to their fish friends while playing together.
I see this response all the time and I have no idea how people are so unaware of what even lets them invade to begin with: other players.
How do incentives for invaders affect the decision to co-op (with or without the seamless mod)?
All invaders are fat sperglords who can't handle real PvP. You can't prove me otherwise.
>Bill Nye the Basedience Goy
Opinion dismissed.
i absoultely love it
t. im@s/ EDF/ PUBG player
I still prefer DS3 invasions, they are way more focused because of the tight levels with fast shortcuts to find the host/gank wherever they may be.
ER has too much garbage in the open world with shit like First Step campers where you have nowhere to hide from spell spam, no decent enemies for help.
The constant shit spell spam, jump attack spam and weapon art spam that greatly favors COOPers is also annoying.
At least in DS3 I can completely destroy R1 spammers by parrying well.
>that absolutely massive lag
pc moment
Invasions lead to extremerly hilarious moments, regardless of the fact that I win or lose them.
They will always be kino.
Just play a fricking PvP game. What's the matter, don't want to actually LEARN how to play something?
i want soulful game that blends the singleplayer and multiplayer seamlessly which only the souls games ever did.
Fighting games are not as dynamic or interesting as PvEvP in a well-designed level for me. Simple as.
NO I NEED TO WIN I CAN'T WIN IN GAMES LIKE THAT
I don't know why the game needs matchmaking based on Soul Level, Equipment Upgrade Level, the host choosing to opt into a multiplayer environment, invasion timers so only 1 invader at a time, the invader gets their estus/mana flasks reduced by half, AND requires the host to have babysitters. It's way too unfavorable for the invader. Especially with the "seed" items that make the invaders also have to fight the mobs.
Like can we really not get 1 thing in the invaders favor ever? If you have babysitters (which use glitches to have unscaled stats more often than not since summoners are noobs who will use any PvE cheat they can) then why do we also have to be the same gear level? If you have 2 or 3 people helping you, I should be able to wear end game gear.
>Like can we really not get 1 thing in the invaders favor ever?
You get:
>an optimized build (which the summons or the host, although less likely, can also have)
>enemies, although this is so random that it isn't reliable
>knowledge of how to play pvp (which the summons or the host can also have)
So pray that you spawn next to a banished knight or omen and not on an empty beach with a waygate. Souls multiplayer simply has to be balanced so that the little guy has a chance. The issue is that it's often not the little guy abusing all these advantages.
It's a novelty that failed at its purpose at being a "mini boss" because shotters get endgame weapons for low level areas. Even still, invaders have to rely on overworld enemies for distractions, so they can jump the summons/host.
Invaders are literally the Black folk of pvpers.
Besides using rot and madness vs noobs in Limgrave, invaders have the worst time vs 3v1 with weapon arts spam and probably 90% loss rate if we were to tally it globally.
I think the best iteration of invasions was in DeS. The game gave you a pretty solid reason (half of your HP pool + bonuses) to be at risk for invasions, perhaps the rewards for invading weren't that great (unless you were a soul SUCCer) but invading in itself is a great reward.
The incentives to invade were to shift world+character tendency and regain body form which is a better reward than they've made since. Plus they made invasions far more accessible than any other game since you can get the invasion stone at the beginning.
On the contrary the reward was the greatest for regular players, with the revive stones being rare it was the easiest way to revive. I remember a meme about low level pvp being a legitimate fight while 120 pvp was circus flipping around with 2kat and dbs.
Invader aura tiers should come back.
Yeah, you love it because no one would ever willingly play with your ass, lmao.
You invited me to play when you went human/embered/summoned.
>have a party
>leave door open so your friends can come and go as they please
>"WHAT THE FRICK WHY ARE ALL THESE BUGS IN MY HOUSE? UGH PATCH IT GOD!"
you got em
There is no game with both invasion and good pvp.
DS3
It was quite a rush to get the drop down on an invading Juliana who was the last obstacle before I could finish Deathloop.
>Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring made it so you can't get invasions unless you summoned a white phantom
>This somehow made both the hosts and the invaders gayer at the same time
Why
DS3 has solo invasions but they're limited to once per area.
That's honestly the best compromise, you have the spooky red man for lone hosts as an ocasional miniboss but without spamming him constantly to make players want to go offline.
Yeah, I'm thinking I'm based.
same energy
heheheh
>demaster
make a general already ffs
It was invented in Diablo 2 though, just not random.
Kys red boys you all deserve death
The concept in From Softs games is great, and when invasions are good they're good. The problem in reality is that most of who you'll be fighting are twinkers and meta slaves abusing broken shit and it's even worse now that invasions only happen when you're playing co op because most of the time it's just you trying to play the game with friends and some random frick shows up. My ideal invasion for a from soft game would be one where you invade as a monster in the level and have a limited ability to customize that monsters equipment which you earn playing the main game.
I love non consensual pvp
no it isn't you stupid c**t, it's annoying as frick. If I get invaded while I'm halfway through a dungeon or area with lots of enemies and few checkpoints, I'd just quit the game. If I want pvp I'll play a pvp game. It doesn't belong in mostly singleplayer experiences.
You can't get invaded if you don't COOP outside of boss arenas.
When you use the multiplayer feature, you accept the risk of invasions.
But fell free to seethe like an ignorant dumbfrick.
>turns on seamless coop
Dilate, homosexual
By definition a game that has invasion mechanics is a pvp game, stop coping pve herbivore the game coddles you I know, but invasions were made explicitly to challenge people like YOU. You can cope with it or you can get filtered.
And then when the "filtered" players stop playing you pvp cucks get mad that no one plays and it's a "dead game". It happens with every single game where pvp is a side game.
>You will now remember the utter meltdown Invaders had when the Elden ring multiplayer mod came out and stopped invasions
Fricking lmao
miyazaki says otherwise
>looking through the thread
>its a bunch of invader cucks crying and whining like they're some oppressed race because their amusement of ruining others peoples days has been made slightly less annoying over time
Im sorry did a video game give you a superiority complex because you used a PVP build against a non PVP player? Sad.
This is your ~20th malding and greentexting about invaders.
They really are that obvious.
My first post in the thread but feel free to link which ones you think are mine and waste your time
What if I simply kill myself, stand still, or quit the game if I get invaded tho?
I will never get the fun in invasions
Then you are probably a pot head who enjoys having his brain turned off and never feeling anything when you play a video game
>What you think invasions are time wasting annoyances?
>Pfft low IQ how dare you play a game for fun and not to be randomly stopped by me so I can have fun at your expense!
Is this some kind of new and even more pathetic cope? By the definition of being an invader arent you admitting you cant feel anything
Anything that hinders your progress is "time wasting" but also needed for a game to be good. Being in a high risk scenario where you either lose lots of progress or you're allowed to proceed evoking a feeling of fear and tension before you get a great victory or devastating defeat. Like playing runescape as a kid where if you die you lose all your shit and feeling the pure atmosphere of terror as you step into the wilderness.
Please tell me this is not how you see yourself I can only pity a man so much
I just want video games to be good. And if the average gaymer got what they wanted everything would be most dull "balanced" experience where you never get frustrated or feel any stake in anything. That's why games needed a genius like miyazaki to make demon's souls in the first place. If it were up to you queer ass pussy gamers these games would just let you save mid fight like skyrim so you can never fail and it would be praised as a great quality of life upgrade.
Then you die, I say "get owned b***h" and go on to the next invasion I guess. It isn't my fault that you chose to play a game that you don't even like.
> It isn't my fault that you chose to play a game that you don't even like.
Invasions arent a part of the game tho
>hate the game so much you download a mod to change it
If we aren't even playing the same game then why are you crying?
>If you dont like one pa part of the gagame then you must hate it!
Please cry more
We aren't playing the same game, stop hating on my game and enjoy yours.
Except we are and only you would consider otherwise
We literally are, you're playing on a completely different client and you will never run into me.
You'll never get the fun because you actively deny yourself it. Do a spot of roleplaying in the roleplaying game you're playing for a minute. Your guy just got invaded by another guy, and his reaction is to throw a temper tantrum, or commit suicide? You're supposed to be a challenger of gods on a quest to prevent (or accelerate) the end of the world, but you shy away from one of your own kind? I'm not saying you're a pussy. I'm saying your actions make no sense for the context of the game.
>He thinks Elden ring is a roleplaying game now
Is this suppose to be some kind of guilt trip like I care? Does anyone?
Just thought I'd suggest engaging the game you refuse to engage while saying you'll never get the fun of it. You might enjoy it if you bothered to even try. You're in here complaining that you don't have fun when you literally drop the controller and stop playing. What games do you play where it is fun to do that?
Games where I can play the game and not be in a random PVP match I didnt choose or want, and in 5 seconds get to go back to playing. Kind of like every Souls game ever made. Do invaders genuinely believe invading is the only part of the souls games?
Nobody but you makes you stop playing when the red man shows up.
But the red man is making me stop playing my game so I can enter his gay PVP duel
The red man is part of your game, it's part of THE game, you don't stop playing it, you ARE playing it.
>The red man is part of your game, it's part of THE game
Not really
>you don't stop playing it, you ARE playing it.
Nah
No he's not. Run past him. Get cheeky. Run into the mobs. Start some chaos. Chaos creates opportunities. People get sloppy when they think they have the upper hand. It's as usable a trick against invaders as it is against co-opers. If you make real progress in the level, like getting a bonfire or shortcut, then your time wasn't even wasted if you die.
NTA but why do you talk like a massive gay? Are you an engineer major
Anonymous ad-hoc COOP and invasions are Miyazaki's favourite mechanics on these games, he said it several interviews.
Why do invaders even make threads at some point you realize every time you do this you only reveal how much more pathetic you are every time? Is invading something you have to be nostalgic for or something? Whenever I think of invasions all I think about is the emancipated skeleton man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6ok2aZgnDI&t=1s
Try an Ubisoft game if you don't want unique asymeteric online interactions.
Or play offline in your cuckshed.
This thread
Ive played them all recently and Ive been invaded three times all in Dark souls 3 and they were pretty goofy, one guy watched me duel this skeleton guy before I clapped him and another killed himself. That fricking DLC boss thats an invasion was fricking Bullshit tho and I genuinely hate you if you do that shit.
The best part about that boss is randomly getting pulled in as the boss. I was attempting to play through the dlc with a friend and I was forced into the role of a boss. It was confusing, but fun despite the fact that I ended up losing after I got the two phantoms.
Not having solo invasions just kills the player pool in so many ways. Most people who co-op only summon at the boss fog. Miyazaki knew this which is why he made you used to sit at a bonfire to enable online so there would be a chance you got invaded before making it.
Now in Elden Ring the only people left co-oping are just gankers or turbo morons who have never played any of the games before. You have absolutely no middle ground players, because they either
>play modded
>only enable online and summon at a fog where it's safe and they risk no pvp encounter at all
>are other invaders wanting to pvp
It's just awful.
Yeah, elden ring is dogshit. I've just started playing the older games instead, though I do miss invading in stormveil and the capital sometimes.
Ive never been invaded in my life and you all sound like massive homosexuals
Go back to playing COD or something
All me btw
>I just want video games to be good.
>Is an invader cuck
stopped reading didnt need to, Sad
You know what the best thing Miyazaki ever did is? In DeS if you put a summon sign or invasion anywhere in world 3 you could be summoned as the old monk. Yes even little shitters with a new character trying to COOP would be summoned as the boss. That's what these games should be. Spontaneous, unexpected, nonconsensual, pure ludo
The same happens in ringed city with the Spear of the Church.
It's kino.
>get to the spear of church or whatever youre talking about
>go offline
>this makes countless people seethe for some reason
>Spontaneous, unexpected, nonconsensual, pure ludo
If it was Spontaneous, unexpected, then why did I expect it and do something about it
also fricking lmao Ludo I can tell you sniff your own farts like its crack
I think if you wanna play offline you should just do it all the time so you don't have to be a homosexual and waste people's time when they invade and you exit the game.
Wait that actually makes you seethe? I meant it as a joke but you actually consider that wasting your time? What do you do sit around waiting for an idiot to stomp instead of playing Dark souls 3? Sounds like youre wasting your own time
I've invaded many people only for them to sign out instantly which is very boring and a waste of time yes.
Then why don't you stop being a homosexual and play something that involves real pvp?
3v1s are more fun
Except it's not a 3v1. It's a 3 vs everything on the map.
Because I want to play souls game pvp. Why should I assume people playing online don't want to get invaded or play multiplayer?
Because if they wanted pvp they'd go to the arena, obviously.
A pvp arena is antithetical to the purpose of invasions and doesn't have the same appeal
What appeal? Ganking some summons with the other enemies on the map? If you can't run behind some enemies when in danger then it's not appealing? Are you some Black person?
The appeal is seamless interconnected pvevp you homosexual Black person
>cope
Lmao only seamless coop is seamless, dipshit
Using the various tools at my disposal to kill someone who's trying to beat the game
Thats fricking hilarious and im glad that happened to you, may it happen more. I had to invade for a quest and it took me like 15 minutes to even find someone so this is extra delicious
Are you a bot?
>wastes 1 minute for me
>wastes upwards of 20 minutes for you
Sure showed me
>Wastes 20 minutes for me
You mean the 5 minutes it takes for me to beat the boss now that I dont have to deal with PVP overlord and instead just some random NPC, then I get to go back to playing.
>so scared of other players that he only summons right before a boss fog and the one boss that could possibly be another player is the only boss he fights solo
>is this arrogant about his own insecurities
Lmao, you're pathetic.
>He actively looks everything up beforehand just to make sure he avoids any chance at pvp
That's pathetic.
Now he's gonna start spamming how invaders are literally future school shooters and rapists.
They are though but thats all people on Ganker. But I mean correlation and causeation, all im saying is theres a pattern.
The only ones seething are red Black folk when I bring up seamless coop. I'm e-girlng rn.
Do you know the best thing about seamless coop? I mean, other than the seething red Black folk, of course. IT'S FREE. That's right, for the low price of 0 dollars, you can enjoy jolly cooperation without having to worry about fog gates or red Black folk with twink builds.
Are invaders always such a pathetic sort or is this a special thread full of gay babies?
>beat the game on a low level character
>your reward is being able to bring the cool items you got on your journey to go stomp on newbies
>get rid of this
>now you get no reward for beating the game on hard mode
This is what pve gays want for you.
>>beat the game on a low level character
>>your reward is being able to bring the cool items you got on your journey to go stomp on newbies
Consistent low level invasions being exclusive to end-game level players was a massive mistake and the reason twinking became a problem at all. There wasn't any issue like that in Demon's Souls because the black eye stone was much more accessible and there weren't a ton of power ups available to low level players.
>World of Warcraft
>Enemy groups can invade your raids/dungeons and steal your loot
This would be based
A red Black person cope thread? Oh boy my favorite!
its almost over sucks, guess ill wait for the next one in the next blue moon
Last for letting Invaders know they will never get to go back to when they liked invading and it will only get worse for them from here as people get better and better at avoiding them like the cancer they are similar to how people avoid them in real life
>Turns on seamless coop
Ahh, sweet segregation from red Black folk
God imagine the DLC experience for red Black folk
>everyone has seemless on
>while everyone else is getting into new content after a long wait you have red Black folk waiting 30+ minutes to finally invade some no build idiot that takes 1 maybe two minutes to stomp before its back into it. Or worse theyre the ones getting stomp.
I need my invaders tear mug
yeah lol, it's gonna be so fun when it comes out. Can't wait
Can't wait for when it comes out and red Black folk seethe "You didn't beat the game!" because I didn't let them in my session lol
Whats a good Elden ring Invading build? Just using the Mohg boss weapon
I think it's funny how much seething one mechanic that you're only really going to encounter a handful of time in a playthrough causes.
In a game where you have to BEG for them to enter your world no less.
It's also funny how they are so adamant that they're not seething while they respond to every post in the thread with some variation of "WELL YOU CAN'T PLAY WITH ME!".
As if anyone needed any further proof, these threads having sizeable numbers of people who are anti-invader goes to show this board has been absolutely colonized by redditBlack folk and normalgays. I remember everyone unanimously used to love DeS and DaS1 invasions, and those were the ones with the highest potential for cruelty.
Okay homosexual, go practice your parries
>Installs seamless coop
You can proceed to cry about it some more
>Wha Wha WHAT PEOPLE DONZT LIKE MY PVP MODE!??!
>MOOM TEHYRE REDDITORS REEEE NORMIEEES
>I remember everyone unanimously used to love DeS and DaS1 invasions
Why are you such an unbearable ape? Delusional as well
You probably weren't even born yet when demon's souls came out you worthless fricking pap smear
Dilate
Invaders reign supreme the old monk will live again
Yeah, sure