>PoE already eclipsed it
kek, there's literally more people playing D2 than PoE
5 million units sold for a shitty remake of a 20 year old game and your game isn't even 10 years old and more than 90% its total playerbase already left
>PoE already eclipsed it
kek, there's literally more people playing D2 than PoE
5 million units sold for a shitty remake of a 20 year old game and your game isn't even 10 years old and more than 90% its total playerbase already left
Diablo > PoE > Diablo 2
Diablo 2 is unfortunately peak of the genre, some clones have been better for brief period of times but endless patches, forced online and balancing games around streamer homosexuals have ruined both D3 and POE.
Diablo > Diablo 2 > PoE
My captcha disagrees
Grim Dawn is the only ARPG worth playing for non autists. If you want to play the same game for 10,000 hours then yeah, one of the Diablos or Path of Exile is probably the better choice (but still inferior to killing yourself)
if there is one genre that is supposed to be designed to play for 10k hours, then it's arpg. the random generation of items and maps aren't a trivial feature in consideration to that. it's a genre by and for autists
grim yawn is a fricking disgrace, just shitan quest
it's baffling how they managed to make the most basic feature - killing shit - feel so fricking wimpy and unsatisfying
Are you moronic? Ragdolls + Gibbing is an objective upgrade over canned stock death animations. Anyone giving GD shit probably played on softcore, which ruins every ARPG. Of course the game is fricking boring if dying has no consequences. DII is a literal Star Wars soi meme where everyone only likes it because of memberberries + heavy corporate shilling
There are also far less explosives in TQ. I like both games for the record, but people acting like Diablo II attacks have more impact than either are moronic
>muh overcooked pasta ragdolls and meatball gibs
frick off zoomer holy shit
nothing in grim yawn and shitan quest has any impact to it whatsoever
>t. nostalgiagay basedwars fan who thinks hammerdin or sorc blizzard have any impact
2 years ago
Anonymous
>moronic zoomer tries to cherrypick >fails regardless
boot up shitan quest or grim yawn, get out of whatever starting location there is, and smack the first mob with your basic weapon
then do the same in d2
you will not admit that d2 has better audio because you're an underage contrarian homosexual who wasn't even born when d2 released
you can have this ꜱoy food
2 years ago
Anonymous
>D2 >Two animated gifs on loop doing the same thing over and over again >"B-but the sound!" >TQ/GD >Using the basic attack with any class is literal moron tier so use an actual skill instead >Enemies go flying, explode into chunks and die spectacularly >"Y-Yeah but there's no compressed 90s cartoon leather smack sound effect!"
I beat D2 hardcore in 2020, take off the nostalgia goggles and acknowledge reality. ARPGs in general aren't all that amazing, but D2 in particular is dated as frick and only relevant due to nostalgia
2 years ago
Anonymous
>i need muh flashy particla diarrhea because otherwise gaem boring
you must be 18 or older to use this site
2 years ago
Anonymous
I played d1, d2 and tq on release, and have hundreds and hundreds of hours into each
I was one of the very first people to get to max level in bnet ladder on d2
tq is a far better game, mechanically and technically, but d2 has plenty more soul
>DII is a literal Star Wars soi meme where everyone only likes it because of memberberries + heavy corporate shilling
Considering I've played D2 at release and I have no idea what you're talking about, I think you may just be wrong.
>I played D2 at release
Ok, so you're admitting you have nostalgia bias towards the game. Nostalgia is all ActiBlizzard has left to keep people gobbling up their goyslop. Dozens of better ARPGs have come out since D2, it's an obsoleted game
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Ok, so you're admitting you have nostalgia bias towards the game.
I'm not admitting anything, I simply understood nothing to your zoomer speak.
>Nostalgia is all ActiBlizzard has left to keep people gobbling up their goyslop.
I never played Diablo 3, and I'll never ever play it because I refuse to give a cent to nublizz.
You really have no idea what you're talking about do you?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I played D2 at release 2 decades ago
Why would you still play a game that old other than nostalgia? It's total shit in 2022 when superior ARPGs exist. You still haven't explained how D2s attacks have "impact" when they boil down to shitty 128x128 gifs on top of pre-made death animations. Please get ActiBlizzard's wiener out of your brain before replying to me again.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Why would you still play a game that old other than nostalgia?
Because it's good. Similarly, I discovered some oldies these past few years that I had never played before, and even some 20 years later they're still great. You can't say it's nostalgia when I discovered these games so late.
>You still haven't
That's not me so calm your horses.
Try making an argument without buzzwords to defend GD against D2.
>I played D2 at release 2 decades ago
Why would you still play a game that old other than nostalgia? It's total shit in 2022 when superior ARPGs exist. You still haven't explained how D2s attacks have "impact" when they boil down to shitty 128x128 gifs on top of pre-made death animations. Please get ActiBlizzard's wiener out of your brain before replying to me again.
Diablo 2 feels better to play despite running at 25 fps and being 20 years old pixelshit. Every input the player makes in D2 is infinitely more responsive compared to GD. It simply feels better to control than GD. That's the core what makes D2 good and GD bad but somehow D2 even looks better visually. Spell effects in D2 are fricking amazing considering how old it is while GD spell effects look like hot garbage. D2 also has better visual clarity which is important in an ARPG.
It is simple. Objectively looking at the gameplay D2 is a better game than GD.
Diablo 2 is unfortunately peak of the genre, some clones have been better for brief period of times but endless patches, forced online and balancing games around streamer homosexuals have ruined both D3 and POE.
What a moronic design, it's like the game forces you to play sorc or else struggle past normal >get an runeword that ignores resistances or else you can't play the game lol
Or you can play it like a normal person taking your time with each level instead of expecting to rush everything a billion times a second because you've read somewhere there's a 0.002% interesting drop chance in that area with more than a certain % of magic find, after paying special attention to the calculations other autists made
You don't need to farm to complete the game with every build.
YOU DON'T NEED to farm to complete the game with every build.
I'll say it again.
YOU DON'T NEED TO FARM TO COMPLETE THE GAME WITH EVERY BUILD.
The best way to experience the game is to treat it as a single player+ instead of full multiplayer
Of course I've played a frick ton of d2 moron, but the game is flawed and there's a reason why everyone plays sorceress or trap sin because immunities basically ruin the game for everyone else unless you have expensive as frick gear.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>everyone
every multiplayer rushed baal run homosexual does, for sure
start playing like a man and you'll realize how different the game is and how you need more than 4 or 5 skills in order to beat the game
Once you kill Baal in normal diff you're left with a 30ish lvl character with new skills that you haven't seen at full potential and the opportunity to find even better items. The way the game plays in nightmare is very very different. You start using different tactics to kill mobs and end up using debuffs and stuff. That, summed to the feeling of accomplishment gives you that extra incentive to play hell difficulty. You then choose if you want to continue or not. But that's the point. You're never forced to grind anything, and actually, reloading the lobby over and over kinda feels cheap.
An even saner person would consider the game finished once you beat baal
Once you kill Baal in normal diff you're left with a 30ish lvl character with new skills that you haven't seen at full potential and the opportunity to find even better items. The way the game plays in nightmare is very very different. You start using different tactics to kill mobs and end up using debuffs and stuff. That, summed to the feeling of accomplishment gives you that extra incentive to play hell difficulty. You then choose if you want to continue or not. But that's the point. You're never forced to grind anything, and actually, reloading the lobby over and over kinda feels cheap.
Depends.
Pre 1.07 the road to diablo is fricking bonkers, where you where unlikely to have reached level 24 by the time you reach chaos sanctuary.
With expansion and post 1.10?
Its significantly quicker, even more so if you do runewords.
I feel like the classic diablo games aren't really ARPGs, it's unfair to compare them to shit like PoE. The original is pretty much just a basic CRPG except played in real time and the second game improved upon the real time element but still kept many strange and esoteric rules from it's CRPG roots. People forget how different D2 was pre 1.10, it's really post LOD that the game became about teleporting around the screen and nuking everything as fast as possible.
You could not buy mana potions before 1.10
Before 1.07 you could gamble uniques and set items.
Which patch added EXP gain to killing boss packs is undocumented.
>1.07 >Gambling prices are now based on the character level. >Sets and Uniques can no longer be gambled for
They was added back to 1.09, but with obscenely low chances of getting uniques and sets.
it is not, where the frick are you getting this idea from? when I said meteorb was one of the easiest and best builds I was comparing it to all builds from all classes
Titan Quest was good but too different, Fate and Torchlight came close. Nox actually fricking did it, gameplay is unrivaled, PvP is breasts, I guess the only downside is the overall atmosphere which can't hold a candle to Diablo.
Also unpopular opinion, Dark Souls is the best Diablo game since Diablo. While very different, it nailed exploration and multiplayer which are keystones of the genre, something most Diablo clones often overlooked.
Not him but he's correct. Souls games are to Diablo what super Mario 64 is to Super Mario 3
The only real difference is the setting and the extra dimension
The reason most Diablo clones failed is because they believed they just needed an isometric view, inventory tetris, and clicking.
Diablo also had a genuine feeling of adventure, fear and death at every step, traps and unexpected encounters, desperate situations, and cutthroat multiplayer. This is the definition of D1 and D2 as much as the definition of early Souls games.
>Diablo also had a genuine feeling of adventure, fear and death at every step, traps and unexpected encounters, desperate situations, and cutthroat multiplayer.
Holy shit grow up anon, it's just diablo. Childhood dreams aren't reality.
you're listing superficial aesthetics. they hook you for maybe 100 hours (which those other arpgs verifiably have, aside from multiplayer). all the other diablo clones except poe failed because they don't understand what hooks people for 10k hours. when you get to the meat and bones of this genre, people resonate with it not because of some campaign that lasts 30 hours at most, it's because of the emergent systems borne out of rng interacting with the rpg parts in the 1,000+ hours after the campaign. everything else is, relatively, fluff
>they hook you for maybe 100 hours
You mean most people. >what hooks people for 10k hours
You mean a tiny minority.
Yes, let's make games for the tiny minority. Also do note that by most peole I certainly do not imply casuals nor zoomers, 100 hours is a whole fricking lot, I think you simply lost control of your life.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Yes, let's make games for the tiny minority.
yes. in an industry that is comprised of studios that do everything they can to appeal to the lowest common denominator and take design/monetization paradigms from the rise of mobile gaming in order to maximize profits at the expense of everything else (namely design integrity), PoE is a breath of fresh air for knowing their niche and carving it out. if you want a game "for the majority" then you have literally the rest of the industry catering to you. for people that want the depth in mechanics PoE has, it's their tiny corner of gaming that nothing else affords
is this why i feel like d2r is very slow/sluggish? just finished act2. plus, do i nees to actually know the game before playing it? (cuz of the single use embue and respec really fricked me up)
you're probably gonna have a bad time if you dont have a plan before hand. look for a leveling build and a popular build that you are gonna respec into.
>Diablo also had a genuine feeling of adventure, fear and death at every step, traps and unexpected encounters, desperate situations, and cutthroat multiplayer.
lmao wtf is this moronic nostalgia garbage
D2 was incredibly easy even for a fricking kid except maybe Chaos Sanctuary and some parts of Act V. Traps did literally nothing and you can spam life pots and safely teleport into town at will.
D2 was succesfull because it had good animations, incredible sound design and amazing itemization/loot loop which is the #1 reason people get addicted to loot arpgs.
Anything else is subjective and intellectual/emotional masturbation.
I agree the Dark Fantasy Action Adventure genre is a bit niche.
And most Diablo clones seem to go in on copying the build autism from D2 or the late expansion hell itemizatiion... instead of truly trying to make the early zones of NG a fricking experience.
The reason most Diablo clones failed is because they believed they just needed an isometric view, inventory tetris, and clicking.
Diablo also had a genuine feeling of adventure, fear and death at every step, traps and unexpected encounters, desperate situations, and cutthroat multiplayer. This is the definition of D1 and D2 as much as the definition of early Souls games.
Also note how I didn't mention Elden Ring.
there's subtext here that isn't immediately obvious, in that if you were born in the 80s and started gaming as a kid this makes sense to you
but if you're younger or experienced the diablo games way later, it won't
it really is about atmosphere and feeling pulled into a hostile world much bigger than we are
[...]
there's subtext here that isn't immediately obvious, in that if you were born in the 80s and started gaming as a kid this makes sense to you
but if you're younger or experienced the diablo games way later, it won't
it really is about atmosphere and feeling pulled into a hostile world much bigger than we are
idk I was born in the 90s, and when I played Demon's Souls for the first time, I realized it nailed a lot of what I liked about Diablo. I like Diablo 2 a lot nowadays, but in the mid oughts I considered it to be a bad sequel. Its loot and power scaling felt excessive, I was sick of skinnerbox games at the time, and it didn't hit the atmosphere as well as Diablo did. I wanted something more restrained with the character building aspects, with more emphasis on skillful or thoughtful combat. Souls games basically gave me what I wanted, and they even replicated what I liked about PK'ing with the invasion system, that most games lack nowadays.
Nox has the best feel/control mechanics, but it has basically no abilities and the loot progression is completely linear and boring. It's like they spent all their time perfecting ARPG gameplay but forgot to make an actual ARPG.
it's pretty much just d2 with less class distinction and only 1 zone (where you progress underground until you get to hell). I guess you could say it has a tighter atmosphere or something but I feel like d2 is a straight upgrade.
I feel like the classic diablo games aren't really ARPGs, it's unfair to compare them to shit like PoE. The original is pretty much just a basic CRPG except played in real time and the second game improved upon the real time element but still kept many strange and esoteric rules from it's CRPG roots. People forget how different D2 was pre 1.10, it's really post LOD that the game became about teleporting around the screen and nuking everything as fast as possible.
No it certainly is not
The only thing Blizzard nailed was of the progression up to level 70.
Beyond that is pathetic.
Rifts are boring as hell and grinding for Paragon is equally stupid. All the legendary loot is samey and the builds are just cookie cutter trash.
But the game is pretty amazing before you hit level 70 because You actually have to build your character and all the loot is useful and you have to upgrade these jams and do all kinds of things. But once you hit that wall of level 70 it's just total garbage
I think something a lot of ARPGs are missing is a good sense of progression. Classic wow (and TBC) actually did this pretty well with how the raids were structured. You need to do dungeons before you can do raids, You need to do some karazhan before you can do gruuls, need to clear gruuls and mags before you can do SSC, etc etc.
There was always something you were working towards. POE sort of has this because doing a map always gives you exp and you progressing towards the harder maps, as well the guaranteed reward of getting some currency, with the unpredictable reward of maybe finding a good item to sell.
Diablo 2 will remain the best forever because it is a sequel to Diablo 1, a slow and spooky dungeon crawler. Diablo 2 goes form being that same horror RPG in the early game to being a crazy power fantasy in the endgame. To keep it short, it is earned.
Every game after Diablo 2 just tries to be the endgame part, wiping entire screens at the press of a button with huge loot explosions and rare drops.
Play fricking Chronicon. Actual pinnacle of the genre. Cuts down on the filler and focuses on possibilites and fun.
Only minus is the graphics/music, but you get sucked off fast
Fact is the entire genre hasn't developed a lick since Diablo 2.
No, fancier graphics and more numbers do not mean the games got better.
The gameplay is still the same braindead "spamclick your strongest spells" crap, the only even remotely engaging part is planning your build which doesn't matter because 99% just follow guides anyway, enemy and boss designs just don't matter either because everything is fodder, level design doesn't matter because it's all just corridors to place the fodder in.
And the worst part is that everyone who plays those is fine with it so it will always stay like this.
Unfortunately this Anon gets it. The Genre is practically dead and attracts only the most autistic of individuals who are willing to speed-run the same campaign for the 100th time to get to the actual meat and bones of the 'game' if you can even call it that. ARPG fans are basically terminally addicted to the RNG Lootbox aspects of the game. But if you dare change anything about that then they kick and scream like babies and call it a 'bad game'
You pick one of the 3 classes and instead of the campaign mode that goes through very linear levels you are spawned at the beginning of a huge level and get to explore it at your own time. Once you reach the end you go the next frick huge level and so on.
It's a lot of fun and you get a lot of abilities very quickly, whereas the campaign mode drip-feeds them to you every hour or so. I really feel like it was designed to be played this way since the campaign just goes through the most boring dungeons imaginable, they even put fricking escort sections in there.
I played the GOG version and it works, just about. It's super fricky, just changing one setting can crash the whole game. Pic related is a screenshot I took to show how pretty the game can be at 1024×768 resolution but when tabbing out the whole game spazzed out and I had to close it. OpenNox also really isn't as simple as it may seem. It allows for higher resolutions but that is at the cost of the camera zooming out, and the HUD getting smaller. You can't go wrong with the GOG version and just trying out the the mod. I for one don't use it and am content with playing on lower resolutions since the game looks very nice regardless.
I mean I guess it can be worth checking out just to see what it was about but don't force yourself to go through the whole thing just to have gone through it
Thanks for the heads up. >don't force yourself to go through the whole thing just to have gone through it
In the past year I have allowed myself to just drop a game if I don't like it enough and HOLY SHIT has my life been easier since lol.
I really want to play this but information is so conflicted. I am not supposed to play the Steam version right? I am supposed to pirate an old version and mod it or some shit? So confusing.
>London 2038
Thanks! >game is shit though
B-but the titty advertising!
https://imgur.com/a/b7JPnLQ
In all seriousness though, I am a fan of Blizzard North and Runic Games, so I will play it eventually just to finish up their overarching catalogue.
I mean I guess it can be worth checking out just to see what it was about but don't force yourself to go through the whole thing just to have gone through it
I personally love Path of Exile. Been playing since open beta like 9 years ago, over 10k hours.
The game has gotten a serious case of content bloat and power creep in the last few years, but I don't know what people expected to happen with a game that got expansions every 3 months for 9 years. It was bound to happen, and now it's impossible to fix. It's clear that at this point, GGG is testing out potential league mechanics for PoE 2. At the end of the day, nothing matches PoE in terms of crafting, itemization, and build diversity. It's not even close.
Diablo 2 will always have a special place in my heart, however, it is dated as frick. PoE has so many quality of life features. Also, I just finished playing thru a SSF sorc in D2R and ultimately you do the same frickin thing as PoE...spamming teleport and your main skill. Running lower kurast/p
Pindle/Mephisto one million times, just to find gear upgrades to do it even faster. It's a genre for autists, I'm willing to admit that.
>It's clear that at this point, GGG is testing out potential league mechanics for PoE 2.
Anon.. PoE2 will be an update. It will inherit all the problems.
Nooooooo. You really think they're gonna keep all the same league content in PoE 2? It's gonna be a hard reset in that regard, and hopefully in terms of pace, too. I'm guessing a lot of league-specific crafting, like harvest will be rolled into workbench crafting or quest rewards. They could really combine shit like breach, beyond, harbinger, scourge...I don't know how many frickin invaders we need from an alternate dimension. Idk, just spit balling. I know it's gonna use the same engine and what not. It sounds like the act progression system will be different, too.
They might scrap some leagues but they won't be able to get rid of all the baggage. The main features of PoE2 are the new skill gem system, the new 7 act campaign and new ascendancy classes. Don't expect it to change much beyond that. All the other changes will come in the leagues leading up to it. Based on what they've managed so far I don't have any confidence on their ability to unfrick the game.
Yeah, you're right. I feel the same way. It's past the point of return, I think. I'm just hoping for some sort of hard reset to take it back to PoE from like 2016. What's your source on this act 7 rework, and why specifically only act 7? I must have missed that.
that we know of, because it's not like they've released any definitive news for a year now. the current state of the game is absolutely a testing grounds for future balance, which I see no reason to write off in setting a baseline zero-level when PoE 2 comes around. there's nothing to suggest they can't "get rid of all the baggage", not that I know whatever undefined things you're suggesting here
For example I don't see them getting rid of the Delve. It's too big of a system to just throw away. There's a reason they integrated it into the core game by making Niko a new master.
I believe the game would be better off if they scrapped all the masters for PoE2 launch but that's never going to happen. Honestly they should scrap all the side content and go back to the base of acts+mapping. That would be the sort of hard reset PoE needs and that's still talking broad strokes.
PoE2 is still like 2 years away so a lot could change before then but I don't think they have the balls to do what's necessary.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Why would they need to get rid of delve though? If you're talking purely in terms of league mechanics, rather than design systems like crafting or floor loot or combat at the high end like I thought you were, league mechanics seem very augmentable, if not outright discardable where necessary. Perandus and Prophecy are 2 examples: they literally don't exist anymore and Navali and Cadiro are virtually out of the game. If you interpret the last league closely, Sentinels seem like they would logically replace Torment. This next league coming in 2 weeks is billed as revitalizing 3 old league mechanics. afaik, Chris is on record stating they want to eventually reel in Beyond (which I interpret as either removing it or working it into Scourge).
But this is all besides the fact that PoE 2 is a 20 year time jump, in-lore. GGG gets little credit for their lore/worldbuilding but there's another angle here that I don't think they're gonna neglect in unceremoniously plopping the old masters into the advanced timeline. Zana is going to be the most preeminent example, wherever her story goes now that Kirac replaced her.
How do I play with a controller on my PC instead of logging around a giant keyboard and mouse like some kind of autist?
And why don't people play these games with a controller more often because these types of games are absolutely perfect with a damn controller. It's so much more convenient and much faster. There's a ton more dexterity involved with using a controller specifically with these types of games.
PoE already eclipsed it unless you're blinded by nostalgia or after really particular experiences.
>PoE already eclipsed it
kek, there's literally more people playing D2 than PoE
5 million units sold for a shitty remake of a 20 year old game and your game isn't even 10 years old and more than 90% its total playerbase already left
Grim Dawn is the only ARPG worth playing for non autists. If you want to play the same game for 10,000 hours then yeah, one of the Diablos or Path of Exile is probably the better choice (but still inferior to killing yourself)
if there is one genre that is supposed to be designed to play for 10k hours, then it's arpg. the random generation of items and maps aren't a trivial feature in consideration to that. it's a genre by and for autists
Grim Dawn is a 100 hour game
grim dawn is a complete slog and the endgame is terrible
grim dawn doesn't have a multiplayer aspect worth playing. If it had a community like D2 had in 2002 it would fricking incredible.
More like grim yawn. Every time I try to play that I quit half way through.
sacred with the reborn mod comes very close
grim yawn is a fricking disgrace, just shitan quest
it's baffling how they managed to make the most basic feature - killing shit - feel so fricking wimpy and unsatisfying
Are you moronic? Ragdolls + Gibbing is an objective upgrade over canned stock death animations. Anyone giving GD shit probably played on softcore, which ruins every ARPG. Of course the game is fricking boring if dying has no consequences. DII is a literal Star Wars soi meme where everyone only likes it because of memberberries + heavy corporate shilling
>muh overcooked pasta ragdolls and meatball gibs
frick off zoomer holy shit
nothing in grim yawn and shitan quest has any impact to it whatsoever
lmao, that is a literal downgrade coming from Titan Quest.
In TQ you could bash enemies across the fricking map
There are also far less explosives in TQ. I like both games for the record, but people acting like Diablo II attacks have more impact than either are moronic
>t. nostalgiagay basedwars fan who thinks hammerdin or sorc blizzard have any impact
>moronic zoomer tries to cherrypick
>fails regardless
boot up shitan quest or grim yawn, get out of whatever starting location there is, and smack the first mob with your basic weapon
then do the same in d2
you will not admit that d2 has better audio because you're an underage contrarian homosexual who wasn't even born when d2 released
you can have this ꜱoy food
>D2
>Two animated gifs on loop doing the same thing over and over again
>"B-but the sound!"
>TQ/GD
>Using the basic attack with any class is literal moron tier so use an actual skill instead
>Enemies go flying, explode into chunks and die spectacularly
>"Y-Yeah but there's no compressed 90s cartoon leather smack sound effect!"
I beat D2 hardcore in 2020, take off the nostalgia goggles and acknowledge reality. ARPGs in general aren't all that amazing, but D2 in particular is dated as frick and only relevant due to nostalgia
>i need muh flashy particla diarrhea because otherwise gaem boring
you must be 18 or older to use this site
I played d1, d2 and tq on release, and have hundreds and hundreds of hours into each
I was one of the very first people to get to max level in bnet ladder on d2
tq is a far better game, mechanically and technically, but d2 has plenty more soul
>DII is a literal Star Wars soi meme where everyone only likes it because of memberberries + heavy corporate shilling
Considering I've played D2 at release and I have no idea what you're talking about, I think you may just be wrong.
>I played D2 at release
Ok, so you're admitting you have nostalgia bias towards the game. Nostalgia is all ActiBlizzard has left to keep people gobbling up their goyslop. Dozens of better ARPGs have come out since D2, it's an obsoleted game
>Ok, so you're admitting you have nostalgia bias towards the game.
I'm not admitting anything, I simply understood nothing to your zoomer speak.
>Nostalgia is all ActiBlizzard has left to keep people gobbling up their goyslop.
I never played Diablo 3, and I'll never ever play it because I refuse to give a cent to nublizz.
You really have no idea what you're talking about do you?
>I played D2 at release 2 decades ago
Why would you still play a game that old other than nostalgia? It's total shit in 2022 when superior ARPGs exist. You still haven't explained how D2s attacks have "impact" when they boil down to shitty 128x128 gifs on top of pre-made death animations. Please get ActiBlizzard's wiener out of your brain before replying to me again.
>Why would you still play a game that old other than nostalgia?
Because it's good. Similarly, I discovered some oldies these past few years that I had never played before, and even some 20 years later they're still great. You can't say it's nostalgia when I discovered these games so late.
>You still haven't
That's not me so calm your horses.
Try making an argument without buzzwords to defend GD against D2.
Diablo 2 feels better to play despite running at 25 fps and being 20 years old pixelshit. Every input the player makes in D2 is infinitely more responsive compared to GD. It simply feels better to control than GD. That's the core what makes D2 good and GD bad but somehow D2 even looks better visually. Spell effects in D2 are fricking amazing considering how old it is while GD spell effects look like hot garbage. D2 also has better visual clarity which is important in an ARPG.
It is simple. Objectively looking at the gameplay D2 is a better game than GD.
Played like 12 hours of this and not once was I in any danger of dying. Didn't look up any build guides or anything.
You didn't get to nightmare in 12 hours?
>nightmare
>in PoE
last time they had difficulty levels was like 2015 and they were called cruel and merciless
PoE is the worst Diablo clone. Hell even D3 is better.
Used to be true, but after 3.13 the game went to absolute shit.
>this is peak gameplay, SOVL SOVL SOVL oh nonono diablosissies our response????
meanwhile in d2 i can literally shout enemies to death
This one image condenses pretty well what went wrong with PoE.
Diablo > PoE > Diablo 2
Diablo > Diablo 2 > PoE
My captcha disagrees
wow that is the spookiest captcha i've seen
Based, in honor of your captcha I will pretend that Diablo 2 was superior for the next 24 hours
Diablo 2 is unfortunately peak of the genre, some clones have been better for brief period of times but endless patches, forced online and balancing games around streamer homosexuals have ruined both D3 and POE.
No because only a few builds are viable thanks to the game throwing monsters immune to one or two damage types at you in higher difficulties
What a moronic design, it's like the game forces you to play sorc or else struggle past normal
>get an runeword that ignores resistances or else you can't play the game lol
Or you can play it like a normal person taking your time with each level instead of expecting to rush everything a billion times a second because you've read somewhere there's a 0.002% interesting drop chance in that area with more than a certain % of magic find, after paying special attention to the calculations other autists made
You don't need to farm to complete the game with every build.
YOU DON'T NEED to farm to complete the game with every build.
I'll say it again.
YOU DON'T NEED TO FARM TO COMPLETE THE GAME WITH EVERY BUILD.
The best way to experience the game is to treat it as a single player+ instead of full multiplayer
Do you even arpg Black person? Autistic grinding is the whole point past normal.
>The point of this genre I made up is to be this genre I made up
You're stupid
Have you ever completed the game on your own, homosexual?
Of course I've played a frick ton of d2 moron, but the game is flawed and there's a reason why everyone plays sorceress or trap sin because immunities basically ruin the game for everyone else unless you have expensive as frick gear.
>everyone
every multiplayer rushed baal run homosexual does, for sure
start playing like a man and you'll realize how different the game is and how you need more than 4 or 5 skills in order to beat the game
An even saner person would consider the game finished once you beat baal
Once you kill Baal in normal diff you're left with a 30ish lvl character with new skills that you haven't seen at full potential and the opportunity to find even better items. The way the game plays in nightmare is very very different. You start using different tactics to kill mobs and end up using debuffs and stuff. That, summed to the feeling of accomplishment gives you that extra incentive to play hell difficulty. You then choose if you want to continue or not. But that's the point. You're never forced to grind anything, and actually, reloading the lobby over and over kinda feels cheap.
Depends.
Pre 1.07 the road to diablo is fricking bonkers, where you where unlikely to have reached level 24 by the time you reach chaos sanctuary.
With expansion and post 1.10?
Its significantly quicker, even more so if you do runewords.
You could not buy mana potions before 1.10
Before 1.07 you could gamble uniques and set items.
Which patch added EXP gain to killing boss packs is undocumented.
You could always gamble uniques no? I remember lucking out into a dark clan crusher for my druid when D2R came out
>1.07
>Gambling prices are now based on the character level.
>Sets and Uniques can no longer be gambled for
They was added back to 1.09, but with obscenely low chances of getting uniques and sets.
>You could not buy mana potions before 1.10
Before 1.09 you mean
Sorc is the worst at dealing with resistances, anon. Skilling into multiple elements filters you out of any chance to get to Hell.
meteorb is one of the easiest and most powerful builds what the frick are you talking about?
And it's still worse than other classes.
it is not, where the frick are you getting this idea from? when I said meteorb was one of the easiest and best builds I was comparing it to all builds from all classes
There is no genre, just Diablo and it'ls clones
I do not get the appeal if Diablo. I found it boring and repetitive.
I do not get the appeal if I found it boring and repetitive
Titan Quest was good but too different, Fate and Torchlight came close. Nox actually fricking did it, gameplay is unrivaled, PvP is breasts, I guess the only downside is the overall atmosphere which can't hold a candle to Diablo.
Also unpopular opinion, Dark Souls is the best Diablo game since Diablo. While very different, it nailed exploration and multiplayer which are keystones of the genre, something most Diablo clones often overlooked.
If dark souls is a diablo game then call of duty is a quake game
frick off fromdrone, you're not welcome here
Not him but he's correct. Souls games are to Diablo what super Mario 64 is to Super Mario 3
The only real difference is the setting and the extra dimension
The reason most Diablo clones failed is because they believed they just needed an isometric view, inventory tetris, and clicking.
Diablo also had a genuine feeling of adventure, fear and death at every step, traps and unexpected encounters, desperate situations, and cutthroat multiplayer. This is the definition of D1 and D2 as much as the definition of early Souls games.
Also note how I didn't mention Elden Ring.
>Diablo also had a genuine feeling of adventure, fear and death at every step, traps and unexpected encounters, desperate situations, and cutthroat multiplayer.
Holy shit grow up anon, it's just diablo. Childhood dreams aren't reality.
you're listing superficial aesthetics. they hook you for maybe 100 hours (which those other arpgs verifiably have, aside from multiplayer). all the other diablo clones except poe failed because they don't understand what hooks people for 10k hours. when you get to the meat and bones of this genre, people resonate with it not because of some campaign that lasts 30 hours at most, it's because of the emergent systems borne out of rng interacting with the rpg parts in the 1,000+ hours after the campaign. everything else is, relatively, fluff
>they hook you for maybe 100 hours
You mean most people.
>what hooks people for 10k hours
You mean a tiny minority.
Yes, let's make games for the tiny minority. Also do note that by most peole I certainly do not imply casuals nor zoomers, 100 hours is a whole fricking lot, I think you simply lost control of your life.
>Yes, let's make games for the tiny minority.
yes. in an industry that is comprised of studios that do everything they can to appeal to the lowest common denominator and take design/monetization paradigms from the rise of mobile gaming in order to maximize profits at the expense of everything else (namely design integrity), PoE is a breath of fresh air for knowing their niche and carving it out. if you want a game "for the majority" then you have literally the rest of the industry catering to you. for people that want the depth in mechanics PoE has, it's their tiny corner of gaming that nothing else affords
is this why i feel like d2r is very slow/sluggish? just finished act2. plus, do i nees to actually know the game before playing it? (cuz of the single use embue and respec really fricked me up)
you're probably gonna have a bad time if you dont have a plan before hand. look for a leveling build and a popular build that you are gonna respec into.
d2 takes a dump on people who don't know what they're doing
it's one of those old game things
You pretty much have to keep Arreat Summit bookmarked as runewords and horadric cube recipes aren't explained ingame
>Diablo also had a genuine feeling of adventure, fear and death at every step, traps and unexpected encounters, desperate situations, and cutthroat multiplayer.
lmao wtf is this moronic nostalgia garbage
D2 was incredibly easy even for a fricking kid except maybe Chaos Sanctuary and some parts of Act V. Traps did literally nothing and you can spam life pots and safely teleport into town at will.
D2 was succesfull because it had good animations, incredible sound design and amazing itemization/loot loop which is the #1 reason people get addicted to loot arpgs.
Anything else is subjective and intellectual/emotional masturbation.
I agree the Dark Fantasy Action Adventure genre is a bit niche.
And most Diablo clones seem to go in on copying the build autism from D2 or the late expansion hell itemizatiion... instead of truly trying to make the early zones of NG a fricking experience.
there's subtext here that isn't immediately obvious, in that if you were born in the 80s and started gaming as a kid this makes sense to you
but if you're younger or experienced the diablo games way later, it won't
it really is about atmosphere and feeling pulled into a hostile world much bigger than we are
idk I was born in the 90s, and when I played Demon's Souls for the first time, I realized it nailed a lot of what I liked about Diablo. I like Diablo 2 a lot nowadays, but in the mid oughts I considered it to be a bad sequel. Its loot and power scaling felt excessive, I was sick of skinnerbox games at the time, and it didn't hit the atmosphere as well as Diablo did. I wanted something more restrained with the character building aspects, with more emphasis on skillful or thoughtful combat. Souls games basically gave me what I wanted, and they even replicated what I liked about PK'ing with the invasion system, that most games lack nowadays.
souls troony kys
Nox has the best feel/control mechanics, but it has basically no abilities and the loot progression is completely linear and boring. It's like they spent all their time perfecting ARPG gameplay but forgot to make an actual ARPG.
>but it has basically no abilities
Play conjuror and say that again.
remember torchic? I got the second one because everyone praised the first one, but I think it's shit
I've played nearly everything in the genre, but I haven't played Diablo 1. Should I give it a go?
Yeah, it's the best one
Yeah diablo 1 is pretty great, and it has a lot of good mods
it's pretty much just d2 with less class distinction and only 1 zone (where you progress underground until you get to hell). I guess you could say it has a tighter atmosphere or something but I feel like d2 is a straight upgrade.
I feel like the classic diablo games aren't really ARPGs, it's unfair to compare them to shit like PoE. The original is pretty much just a basic CRPG except played in real time and the second game improved upon the real time element but still kept many strange and esoteric rules from it's CRPG roots. People forget how different D2 was pre 1.10, it's really post LOD that the game became about teleporting around the screen and nuking everything as fast as possible.
TQ then PoE solved the genre.
D3 is more fun
No it certainly is not
The only thing Blizzard nailed was of the progression up to level 70.
Beyond that is pathetic.
Rifts are boring as hell and grinding for Paragon is equally stupid. All the legendary loot is samey and the builds are just cookie cutter trash.
But the game is pretty amazing before you hit level 70 because You actually have to build your character and all the loot is useful and you have to upgrade these jams and do all kinds of things. But once you hit that wall of level 70 it's just total garbage
The division series is better because shooting feels better than slashing and casting.
d1 has the best atmosphere and doesn't overstay it's welcome with mindless gambling grind bullshit
I think something a lot of ARPGs are missing is a good sense of progression. Classic wow (and TBC) actually did this pretty well with how the raids were structured. You need to do dungeons before you can do raids, You need to do some karazhan before you can do gruuls, need to clear gruuls and mags before you can do SSC, etc etc.
There was always something you were working towards. POE sort of has this because doing a map always gives you exp and you progressing towards the harder maps, as well the guaranteed reward of getting some currency, with the unpredictable reward of maybe finding a good item to sell.
>Classic wow
stopped reading there
okay brainlet, classic wow was directly inspired by Diablo 2. They're a lot more similar than they different
>classic wow
stopped reading there
Diablo 2 will remain the best forever because it is a sequel to Diablo 1, a slow and spooky dungeon crawler. Diablo 2 goes form being that same horror RPG in the early game to being a crazy power fantasy in the endgame. To keep it short, it is earned.
Every game after Diablo 2 just tries to be the endgame part, wiping entire screens at the press of a button with huge loot explosions and rare drops.
Grim Dawn
Play fricking Chronicon. Actual pinnacle of the genre. Cuts down on the filler and focuses on possibilites and fun.
Only minus is the graphics/music, but you get sucked off fast
I don't get sucked fast, b***h
Fact is the entire genre hasn't developed a lick since Diablo 2.
No, fancier graphics and more numbers do not mean the games got better.
The gameplay is still the same braindead "spamclick your strongest spells" crap, the only even remotely engaging part is planning your build which doesn't matter because 99% just follow guides anyway, enemy and boss designs just don't matter either because everything is fodder, level design doesn't matter because it's all just corridors to place the fodder in.
And the worst part is that everyone who plays those is fine with it so it will always stay like this.
Unfortunately this Anon gets it. The Genre is practically dead and attracts only the most autistic of individuals who are willing to speed-run the same campaign for the 100th time to get to the actual meat and bones of the 'game' if you can even call it that. ARPG fans are basically terminally addicted to the RNG Lootbox aspects of the game. But if you dare change anything about that then they kick and scream like babies and call it a 'bad game'
shut the frick up helmut
There are plenty of ARPGs that aren't what you describe. You just choose to focus on skinnerboxes
not even D2 did
Just bought Nox and D2 remaster
Nox is ten times more fun.
>Nox
I had more fun with that Roguelike mode than the campaign tbh.
I haven't played Nox before. What's the roguelike mode?
You pick one of the 3 classes and instead of the campaign mode that goes through very linear levels you are spawned at the beginning of a huge level and get to explore it at your own time. Once you reach the end you go the next frick huge level and so on.
It's a lot of fun and you get a lot of abilities very quickly, whereas the campaign mode drip-feeds them to you every hour or so. I really feel like it was designed to be played this way since the campaign just goes through the most boring dungeons imaginable, they even put fricking escort sections in there.
Sounds interesting. Would this https://github.com/noxworld-dev/opennox be the optimal way to play Nox in current year?
I played the GOG version and it works, just about. It's super fricky, just changing one setting can crash the whole game. Pic related is a screenshot I took to show how pretty the game can be at 1024×768 resolution but when tabbing out the whole game spazzed out and I had to close it. OpenNox also really isn't as simple as it may seem. It allows for higher resolutions but that is at the cost of the camera zooming out, and the HUD getting smaller. You can't go wrong with the GOG version and just trying out the the mod. I for one don't use it and am content with playing on lower resolutions since the game looks very nice regardless.
Thanks for the heads up.
>don't force yourself to go through the whole thing just to have gone through it
In the past year I have allowed myself to just drop a game if I don't like it enough and HOLY SHIT has my life been easier since lol.
at this point D2 will never be beaten and D2R is a great remaster, we can move on from isometric
is it time for a spiritual successor to hellgate london?
I really want to play this but information is so conflicted. I am not supposed to play the Steam version right? I am supposed to pirate an old version and mod it or some shit? So confusing.
London 2038
game is shit though
>London 2038
Thanks!
>game is shit though
B-but the titty advertising!
https://imgur.com/a/b7JPnLQ
In all seriousness though, I am a fan of Blizzard North and Runic Games, so I will play it eventually just to finish up their overarching catalogue.
I mean I guess it can be worth checking out just to see what it was about but don't force yourself to go through the whole thing just to have gone through it
I personally love Path of Exile. Been playing since open beta like 9 years ago, over 10k hours.
The game has gotten a serious case of content bloat and power creep in the last few years, but I don't know what people expected to happen with a game that got expansions every 3 months for 9 years. It was bound to happen, and now it's impossible to fix. It's clear that at this point, GGG is testing out potential league mechanics for PoE 2. At the end of the day, nothing matches PoE in terms of crafting, itemization, and build diversity. It's not even close.
Diablo 2 will always have a special place in my heart, however, it is dated as frick. PoE has so many quality of life features. Also, I just finished playing thru a SSF sorc in D2R and ultimately you do the same frickin thing as PoE...spamming teleport and your main skill. Running lower kurast/p
Pindle/Mephisto one million times, just to find gear upgrades to do it even faster. It's a genre for autists, I'm willing to admit that.
>It's clear that at this point, GGG is testing out potential league mechanics for PoE 2.
Anon.. PoE2 will be an update. It will inherit all the problems.
Nooooooo. You really think they're gonna keep all the same league content in PoE 2? It's gonna be a hard reset in that regard, and hopefully in terms of pace, too. I'm guessing a lot of league-specific crafting, like harvest will be rolled into workbench crafting or quest rewards. They could really combine shit like breach, beyond, harbinger, scourge...I don't know how many frickin invaders we need from an alternate dimension. Idk, just spit balling. I know it's gonna use the same engine and what not. It sounds like the act progression system will be different, too.
They might scrap some leagues but they won't be able to get rid of all the baggage. The main features of PoE2 are the new skill gem system, the new 7 act campaign and new ascendancy classes. Don't expect it to change much beyond that. All the other changes will come in the leagues leading up to it. Based on what they've managed so far I don't have any confidence on their ability to unfrick the game.
Yeah, you're right. I feel the same way. It's past the point of return, I think. I'm just hoping for some sort of hard reset to take it back to PoE from like 2016. What's your source on this act 7 rework, and why specifically only act 7? I must have missed that.
>What's your source on this act 7 rework, and why specifically only act 7? I must have missed that.
Seven new acts for the new campaign.
Oh sorry, I'm moronic and can't read. Welp, hopefully it's an upgrade from the current 10 acts.
that we know of, because it's not like they've released any definitive news for a year now. the current state of the game is absolutely a testing grounds for future balance, which I see no reason to write off in setting a baseline zero-level when PoE 2 comes around. there's nothing to suggest they can't "get rid of all the baggage", not that I know whatever undefined things you're suggesting here
For example I don't see them getting rid of the Delve. It's too big of a system to just throw away. There's a reason they integrated it into the core game by making Niko a new master.
I believe the game would be better off if they scrapped all the masters for PoE2 launch but that's never going to happen. Honestly they should scrap all the side content and go back to the base of acts+mapping. That would be the sort of hard reset PoE needs and that's still talking broad strokes.
PoE2 is still like 2 years away so a lot could change before then but I don't think they have the balls to do what's necessary.
Why would they need to get rid of delve though? If you're talking purely in terms of league mechanics, rather than design systems like crafting or floor loot or combat at the high end like I thought you were, league mechanics seem very augmentable, if not outright discardable where necessary. Perandus and Prophecy are 2 examples: they literally don't exist anymore and Navali and Cadiro are virtually out of the game. If you interpret the last league closely, Sentinels seem like they would logically replace Torment. This next league coming in 2 weeks is billed as revitalizing 3 old league mechanics. afaik, Chris is on record stating they want to eventually reel in Beyond (which I interpret as either removing it or working it into Scourge).
But this is all besides the fact that PoE 2 is a 20 year time jump, in-lore. GGG gets little credit for their lore/worldbuilding but there's another angle here that I don't think they're gonna neglect in unceremoniously plopping the old masters into the advanced timeline. Zana is going to be the most preeminent example, wherever her story goes now that Kirac replaced her.
Sounds good...
How do I play with a controller on my PC instead of logging around a giant keyboard and mouse like some kind of autist?
And why don't people play these games with a controller more often because these types of games are absolutely perfect with a damn controller. It's so much more convenient and much faster. There's a ton more dexterity involved with using a controller specifically with these types of games.
>How do I play with a controller on my PC
Just use a keyboard and mouse, it's not that hard. Using a controller for PC games is gay as shit.
>pay2store items
>better
lol
Bro, stash tabs are like $3. And they go on sale like every month. What's it like being a total poorgay?
/ourgirl/ recently dropped this, I think it's time
Been playing through Last Epoch. It's pretty decent for $35
I haven't completed the story yet though so I don't know what the endgame is like.
What temperature is your computer at while running the game?