This is bs or only 50% of the story. The truth is pain and suffering is only sometimes a motivator. Its ignorant of those who just get completely obliterated and crushed by it. Are you going to throw a crippled child to the ground and tell him to get up and fight you? There is a major difference between minor inconvenience and legitimate suffering that your own will can not overcome due to factual limitations and physical boundaries. Same goes with the "you never get anywhere if you dont take a chance" ideology. Yes, its a nice thing to think that you just need to take a big risk and you will succeed, but no one ever wants to accept or acknowledge the reality of those who do risk it all, fail horribly and are now in a position worse then they began. Suffering means nothing as some kind of life lesson put in place by the universe, its an unpredictable outcome you either get back up from or not. If suffering was so important to the human self, our species would not constantly be trying to find ways to reduce or stop it.
the only people who say this are people who have not felt genuine agony before. for your sake, i hope you never have to, because you very likely would not survive it.
I suffered a midshaft femur fracture when I was 23 so you better believe I know what it's like to be in extreme agony. Having said that, pain is extremely important. It lets you know that "oh shit, there's something wrong with my body and I better do something about it". It's basically an alarm system for your body, hence the reason why conditions such as CIPA are considered extremely serious.
A midshaft femur fracture is one of the most painful things you can experience. Also extremely life threatening. You'd know that if you hadn't flunked basic anatomy.
>risk everything in life to do what i want to do >end up failing horribly or realizing i made a terrible mistake after doing it >oops, sorry you literally ruined your life i guess
That would be the better moral. To plan things out, have a safety net, prepared for the worst case scenario. But thats not the popular mindset to parrot. Its "take a risk".
even with careful planning and a safety net, you still have to actually take the risk
1 year ago
Anonymous
But it's significantly minimized, to the point where the loss is negligible.
Going for a walk outside involves a risk, but if you know the area, and it's a known safe location, have a phone, go in the daylight, and are aware of your surroundings, the odds of something bad happening to you are pretty fricking small, outside of freak accidents for which you couldn't have accounted for.
>as a normal human bean
being a normal human is to experience love and loss and to have free will. Maruki's ideal world removes that and youd be no better off than living in the fricking matrix
>you go to Maruki >MARUKI-SAMA, I LIKE GIRL!!! SHE NOT LIKE ME!!! WHAT DO?!! >Maruki: "You can find happiness elsewhere" >deletes girl from your mind
Youre life status: fixed
That's explicitly not what happened in game >Dude: Maruki-sama girl don't like me but I like her >Maruki: Now she date you >Chick-chan: I am dating you but for some reason I don't feel anything for you, but still feel compelled to date you
How many times do you morons need to be told: It is not aspiration that Maruki makes decisions on, it is what is the least painful option. There is a painter in game who really wants to get really good, but then in Maruki's world he becomes a fisherman because "it's easier".
1 year ago
Anonymous
that dude liked fishing tho
1 year ago
Anonymous
Yeah, but it wasn't his aspiration was it? Aspiration and dreams do not factor into Maruki's decision for you.
-chan: I am dating you but for some reason I don't feel anything for you,
Thus far, there is nothing outlandish about this, women do it all the time. >but still feel compelled to date you
In a way this is also realistic. Which is why women are lying CHEATING prostitutes.
Pain exists quite literally to protect you you fricking dunce, when your hand is burning on the stove it's pain that forces you to remove it not logically thinking that you may be burning without paying attention.
these anons who replied think so myopically. if there were no pain, humanity, life, would be so fundamentally different that we couldn’t even comprehend it.
if anything maruki was short sighted and not ambitious enough with what the rational conclusion of OP’s pic related, which is why it made sense to stop him
This. We are coming at this with human mindsets sculpted by words of others. Another species may see suffering as totally alien to them as not suffering is to us.
Pain literally defines ones mistakes. It exists in your brain to tell yourself you need to avoid it in the future. It's why you remember pain and not good times as much. In other words, without pain you'd be a ignorant moron and you'd have no lessons, taught or self taught about mistakes and dangers.
In the future, man is going to inevitable have a means to disable pain senors permanently, have visual huds installed in/over our eyes that will show us when something is "wrong" on/in your body. >Oh, my leg indicator lit up. Look at that, i have a gash on my leg. Good thing i have my self repairing nanofiber applying pressure to that area while i mosey on over to my medipod.
Mistakes do not have to equal literal pain and humans will eventually make it obsolete.
I like how everyone is arguing with you when even Maruki says "if it can be avoided". He isn't even saying pain shouldn't exist, just that it's moronic to put yourself through unnecessary amounts of it.
>pain is what caused him to follow this line of logic whatsoever >it's what caused him to fight to change things for what he feels is the right cause >in his perfect world, removal of this pain removes any trigger for members of society to make their own personal leaps forward >he doesn't realize that he's kicking down the ladder of human progress doing this, and dooming the world to a placid decay >plenty of moronic people online don't seem to get this either
lawgays are the fricking worst, I would rather pick a chaos ending than your boring, lifeless apocalypses.
will you fricking shut up? it's a removal of 'pain' from all members of society, you're dragging real world politics into this as your first response? okay fine, watch the goddamn debates between him and Biden again, the 2008 depression, oh yeah, he didn't feel any pain then, did he? frick off, braindead c**t.
when doomguy said 'i hate Black folk'
when he won both elections
when his favorite squishmallow got some dirt on it
when the dog said ed...ward
when elden ring smelly poopoo man
when he got kicked from the minecraft server
when he ran out of vape juice
when he failed a 4 plate bench
when i falied a 4 plate bench
1 year ago
Anonymous
Prove to me hes never cried, you made the declaration and need to provide evidence
1 year ago
Anonymous
You're the one claiming he suffered tho, back it up, b***hboy
1 year ago
Anonymous
>WHAT IS BURDEN OF PROOF >DUR HURR IM GONNA JUST SHIFT THE GOAL POST AND ASK YOU NOW
just have a nice day ya fricking homosexual
1 year ago
Anonymous
Black, you're the only one being a deflecting b***hboy. I have been asking you for source for the past 20 minutes, way before your incely post asking for le ebin burden of proof. Are you gonna back it up or not? I have a life to keep.
1 year ago
Anonymous
you fricking stated rich people dont have hardships, what kinda fricking outlandish statement is that? all people have hardships be they social, fiscal, spiritual etc... To say they havent or couldnt have experienced any WITHOUT BEING SAID FRICKING PERSON you are literally going to have prove it WHICH YOU ARENT
I swear youre probably the same homosexual who was posting about this shit the last time an anon said Maruki was right. Youre a fricking loser who would be better off dead with your attitude
1 year ago
Anonymous
Das rite boyo, I claim _thing_ doesn't exist. You claim it does and that I'm retarted, well, back it up gayggot.
1 year ago
Anonymous
You like to Tongue my anus, I stated it and everyone here knows you tongue my anus. disprove it Black person
1 year ago
Anonymous
>disprove it
That's the difference, I'm asking you to prove something, not disprove it. Which is why the burden of le ebin proof is on you.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Not him but wealthy people should suffer more, it's only fair. Struggle as much as we poor folk do.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Hi, I'm not a part of this conversation chain, but Trump was sent to boarding school, his mother wanted nothing to do with him, and his father + brother were alcoholics.
He also wears a diaper and shits himself in public due to eu sudafed stimulant use.
You might be moronic. One of his principles is that people should strive for better things and want to be happier. A father in the sorting chamber chooses to do nothing when presented with the ability to change hearts and is sorted into needing Maruki's help. His philosophy is that exceptional pain, like depression, gets in the way of self-actualization and should be removed.
I'm not saying he's right, but it seems like people willfully misinterpret what Maruki's ideology is. Helping someone is noble but it's also not necessarily the right choice. In a lot of situations, it's simply endangering yourself and the victim to try and be a hero. Rarely is it as simple as just telling off a bully. Sure, in America you can CC and be the good guy with a gun but in Japan what is the average person going to do against a thug with an illegal weapon but call for the authorities?
the issue is these questions paint a broad brush over the problem, they lack context, and it might just be to speed the game along, but it makes Maruki's logic seem a lot more shallow than it should be, this game was not the right medium for the subject they were trying to approach.
his system, as described in the game, is set to fail, and yet people on the internet are defending this doomed system, filling the blanks in their heads with how it'll be perfect, similar to literal communist sympathizers.
You miss the obvious qualifier for that specific question in his Palace - that being that the question specifies that you can do it without a chance to get caught, to put yourself in harm's way. Maruki's whole argument is that striving for better things will cause you pain, and in a perfect world you should never have to. It's what he's doing with Azathoth in the first place.
For God's sake, his fricking battle theme literally contains the lyric "You won't need to strive for greatness". That's the whole conflict between him and the Phantom Thieves, that forcing people to accept a paradisal reality that they might not want is wrong, no matter your intentions.
So what I'm getting from this thread is I benefit from having been born in a first world country where I can strive to surpass my pain, and that ultimately I should let Maruki win if I cared about people enough less fortunate than me, right?
There is a level of pain that human will can not surpass due to the physical burden of the universe pushing back. Its a saturation point where suffering can not be overcome to grow from. To put in gaymer terms, its like a level 1 character fighting a level 5 foe. Its hard and difficult to overcome, but you get much xp from doing so. But as a level 1, you will never beat a max level enemy, the numbers are stacked against you in amounts you can not overcome. You in a first world country are a level 1 in a mostly balanced zone, you have hard and easy areas. A 3rd worlder is a level 1 thrown into an end game zone.
On an individual basis, yes you would. Most people dont care or dont acknowledge how their own wants can produce the suffering of others so that wouldn't make you unique. Its like if there was a cure for cancer, but you won't release it because now you wouldn't get paid to treat cancer. Or you could give money to a 3rd world charity, but you could also keep it and buy yourself ice cream. Most people to have ever existed are dicks in that regard. So if a god being appeared and said they would halt the suffering of billions, but your life would be effected in some way, yea you would kinda be a dick to put your desires as an individual before so many others suffering far more.
1 year ago
Anonymous
So why do the phantom thieves oppose him?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Anyone?
1 year ago
Anonymous
the plot demanded it
its a stupid jrpg, villains are almost always in the right but because "I'm the hero" they have to lose.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Because they are hormonal teens and think adult = bad most of the time. If they are fighting because they don't think he can handle that power, thats maybe a legit concern. If they are literally fighting for "ALL SUFFERING ALWAYS = GOOD" then they are just coming off as annoying teens who think they have the world figured out and dont take the time to consider the deeper concerns outside their limited world view of what the power to end suffering could mean for billions of others who would benefit from it. If anything they should express their concerns and try to help him with his goals of elevating the human condition. Atleast then if he flips out and says "NO ONLY ME KNOW WHATS BEST" or cosmic horror behind his power reveals its only doing it through malicious intent, then they would have a more justified reason to stop him.
In other words, japs didn't write the best they could have for their edgy teen focused jarpig.
>>he doesn't realize that he's kicking down the ladder of human progress doing this, and dooming the world to a placid decay
You have to be baiting or straight moron. Human progress hasn't got us just more problems. We are about to witness a massive planetwide extinction thanks to this so called progress.
The game is ultimate trying to paint the Phantom Thieves in a glowing light. Maruki has to be portrayed as flawed, prescribing rudimentary and ineffective remedies, while the Phantom Thieves are fighting for the glory of humanity's potential.
I've no doubt that if the game was truly interested in giving you an ambiguous choice, Maruki's rationale would've been further fleshed out, with him explaining how the information he gets through tapping on the collective unconscious allows him to make reasonable decisions that would ultimately benefit everyone, but Maruki being completely competent isn't what the game wants to say.
Who cares? She should be free to fight her own battles. She is able to overcome her struggles through her own strength, with no persona abilities, because that's the power of humanity.
It's time to stop pretending rape is such a huge crime. Women fantasize about it all the time and have constant sexual relations with strangers they just met for thrills.
I mean I agree because I would love to be a rapist.
But that doesn't disprove my point.
You can kill a rapist, but he will still be remembered by the victim 60 years into the future. He basically achieved the closest thing to immortality with the least amount of effort. Specially if he impregnated her.
>take lsd >no more pain >realize that all your problems are not really problems or easy to overcome >realize that you spent years of your life troubling about pointless things >realize that your psychologist actually scam you
No. Suffering is necessary, every adult should recognize that.
There's a reason the world's largest religions are basically extended manuals on why suffering exists and how to cope with it. They reach different answers, but the principles are pretty similar.
Yes and no. Pain and suffering make you stronger. There are instances of excess pain and suffering unfortunately. But that doesn't really matter, what matters is if someone came out tomorrow with a machine that puts you to sleep and gives you endless fantasies until death, people would line up to use it.
>if someone came out tomorrow with a machine that puts you to sleep and gives you endless fantasies until death, people would line up to use it.
God, I wish that would be real.
our entire world is already the product of one of those machines. it's just not you hooked up to the machine. it's some billionaire playboy or privileged world leader, and you're just a shitty npc created to populate his dream.
I had already picked this dude's envisioned world back in SMT3, and then Maruki came along which is basically this guy (forgot his name, its been 20+ years) ideology but either better or a sidegrade.
Yes, but Musubi never explained if the world he creates involves other people or not. Being stuck in a world full of people you create (aka: mannequins) isn't as good as being stuck in a world that makes you happy.
That is his flaw, which is why Maruki is either better, or a sidegrade.
Maruki effectively creates people, lobotomises people, and discards people at a whim
The only merit to such a system is that you're unlikely to be aware of how much of a mannequin you are
isamu's idea was basically everyone just lived alone in their own reality (never fully explained if its your own pocket dimension or you just alone as a normal person) which is sort of chill.
I bet he dresses so fashionably because he failed at being a socialite. >Gets imprisoned. >Manages to get out through sheer luck. >Immediately imprisoned again. >Gets so pissed he manages to squeeze out. >Sacrifices best boy to summon his NEET god.
You don't know what pleasure is without pain. Context is needed. He should have kept to improving the lives of those who needed it instead of outright changing everyone's lives and taking away freedom of choice.
What he is doing is essentially turning every single videogame into easymode. You will never, ever have a challenge again because it's too "stressful" on you.
>You don't know what pleasure is without pain.
I'm pretty sure donald drumpft has been grabbing people by the pussy for years without any pain. Such a stupid thing to say that for you to enjoy the taste of food, first you need to feel hunger. No, you don't Black person.
You wouldn't know what food tastes like because without hunger you wouldn't need to eat. You wouldn't have developed a mouth.
Without pain you wouldn't have developed a sense of self-preservation. You would sit there and rot because why would you do anything? You have no motivation to do it. You would not have evolved a will.
You literally refuse to imagine a scenario where pain has helped you survive, flourish and motivate you. You cannot even comprehend how important pain is to evolution and survival. For emotional development, pride and happiness. Pain is unable to be separated from pleasure. You should lessen pain when you can, not altogether remove it. You will remove pleasure at this rate.
I'm not sure how to make you understand. You don't seem to be equipped to comprehend this.
Ironic, considering you cannot comprehend how food tastes good regardless if you're hungry or not.
I don't think you're a human being at all.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Says the man with no pride, humility or self-awareness.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Anon people are not born fat. The hypothetical fat person indulging in food is doing so in response to something. Maybe he was bullied, maybe he hates his life, etc. He's doing what he's doing in response to pain; he cannot comprehend the pleasure of engorging himself with food without having been pushed there.
>You literally refuse to imagine a scenario where pain has helped you survive, flourish and motivate you. You cannot even comprehend how important pain is to evolution and survival. For emotional development, pride and happiness. Pain is unable to be separated from pleasure. You should lessen pain when you can, not altogether remove it. You will remove pleasure at this rate
Stealing this for my villain I'm writing.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Go for it, the guy I'm writing in my book is unrelated to that.
Hope your story comes out well!
You are fricking moronic. A lack of suffering does not remove creativity or intrigue. Do you draw because someone beat you? Do you read because your back hurts?
Also, I don't give a shit about evolution. We are talking about an alien that literally revives living beings. He can mutate humans at will and give you mouth, legs, fix broken bones.
Evolution is for morons.
Normalgays are too intellectually cowardly to follow this 'Suffering builds character' to its logical conclusion. They say that pain is actually good and helps people live, yet I don't see them purposefully getting in car crashes or walking on broken glass to strengthen their lives. Nietzsche was a gay who was pathetically coping.
that's the entire point you absolute braindead moron. people avoid pain, and danger and harm and sickness and all other things that would end their existence, all because pain exists. without pain (and the resultant fear) you simply die to one of countless random things you instinctively avoid due to the existence of pain, and as it turns out extinct species don't evolve or progress.
That isn't news to anyone you stupid bastard. Everyone knows this. You're not fricking deep. You're too fricking moronic to acknowledge that the dichotomy of pain being bad but it being a requirement for life doesn't mean it is "good", it means that life is a fundamentally flawed structure. Life is not perfectly designed, it just happened via various reactions. And this is the base of reality.
You are an actual midwit. How fricking dare you respond to my post.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>pabulum >dichotomy >thinking using big words and being angsty on the internet justify your ten thousands wasted on some philosophy class
I don't know man on top of being wrong you're also cringe and a loser. Today I had a bad day but at least I'm not you thank god for that.
pain exists to warn us to avoid things that harm or kill us. it exists specifically to be avoided and is absolutely necessary for the advancement and continuation of complex organisms.
>You think Maruki won't make you feel pain if you touch fire or acid?
he literally debates whether or not to remove the existence of pain at all in the OP image you illiterate brown third worlder.
so you didn't play the game, he is not talking about fire nor acid in the OP. You would know this if you actually played videogames instead of basing your entire knowledge of a 130+ hours game in a singular fricking image.
>You think Maruki won't make you feel pain if you touch fire or acid?
he literally debates whether or not to remove the existence of pain at all in the OP image you illiterate brown third worlder.
This post LITERALLY has fire and acid in its content and its argument is based on that.
Do you really think we can't scroll up?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>This post LITERALLY has fire and acid in its content
it's quoting your post, in which you mention fire and acid. i never mentioned fire or acid and neither does the OP to which I referred.
1 year ago
Anonymous
And yet, in this very post I'm replying to, we are talking about fire and acid, yes...we(you and me). You have now been proven wrong.
1 year ago
Anonymous
you are literally autistic and deserve to be killed slowly via fire and acid.
1 year ago
Anonymous
The direct quote where fire and acid was brought up in the original post was: >You think Maruki won't make you feel pain if you touch fire or acid?
>pain exists to warn us to avoid things that harm or kill us
You think Maruki won't make you feel pain if you touch fire or acid?
Are you moronic? did you play the game or just came here to be stupid?
Which was in response to; >pain exists to warn us to avoid things that harm or kill us
pain exists to warn us to avoid things that harm or kill us. it exists specifically to be avoided and is absolutely necessary for the advancement and continuation of complex organisms.
To which anon replied to the first guy with: >he literally debates whether or not to remove the existence of pain at all in the OP image you illiterate brown third worlder.
>You think Maruki won't make you feel pain if you touch fire or acid?
he literally debates whether or not to remove the existence of pain at all in the OP image you illiterate brown third worlder.
The question proposed in the first quote is a rhetorical question on if Maruki would let you feel pain from touching fire or acid, physical pain. However, if you actually played the game you would know the that’s not true and he wants to avoid psychological pain, so the answer is no. If you were to go full moron in Maruki’s reality and stick your hand in a fire it would still hurt. The response to the quoted question of Maruki debating whether to remove the existence of all pain is showing how that anon has not played the game and is taking the image posted at face value.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Autism.
I ain't reading all that, I'm happy for you tho, or sorry that happened.
And if you were to actually play the game you would know that the conversation is about phycological pain. morons here inflate that to being all types of pain.
>muh evolution >under a world ruled by a being that revives dead parents, restores hymens, erases memories, and heals uncurable and unfixable bone structure wounds
Dumbest take on the thread.
>and his world is stagnant
his world literally lasted 3 weeks. you have to be an idiot to consider that timeframe enough for a study on whether or not humanity is stagnating or not. You're grasping at straws. Are you afraid of losing an internet argument?
>his world literally lasted 3 weeks
It wasn't complete yet dipshit, there were plenty of people affected and those that were, were questioning it. Some outright rejected it like the hobo and many were borderline apathetic and bored.
Play the fricking game.
>It wasn't complete yet
And yet you consider it enough to claim if a world is stagnating or not? Fascinating...
>his world literally lasted 3 weeks
so his philosophy was a big fat failure then.
I don't think you realize how low IQ your post is. If everyone thought like you, doctors couldn't be able to exist on this world.
1 year ago
Anonymous
doctors only exist because pain exists. they wouldn't exist in maruki's world. he himself never would have existed in a world that never had pain to create "hardships" in the first place
he's peak leftist; female-brained, emotional, chaos, entropy, hedonism. the antithesis to order, stability, and true progress through overcoming adversity.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>doctors only exist because pain exists. they wouldn't exist in maruki's world
We are not talking about your videogames here. Real life anon. If you throw a verdict of a study within 3 weeks then doctors would have never become a thing, nor would anything in the medical field.
1 year ago
Anonymous
if your study explodes in your face and fails in less than three weeks in the real world, it is abandoned and your hypothesis is deemed a failure. you don't just get to keep testing it until you get the desired result. and none of that has anything to do with the existence of doctors or the medical field or anything else anyway, none of which would exist--or would cease to exist if it already did-- in a world now coddled by a god providing all solutions and removing the demand for anything.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>if your study explodes in your face and fails in less than three weeks in the real world, it is abandoned
see:
>It wasn't complete yet
And yet you consider it enough to claim if a world is stagnating or not? Fascinating...
[...]
I don't think you realize how low IQ your post is. If everyone thought like you, doctors couldn't be able to exist on this world.
>I don't think you realize how low IQ your post is.
The first airplane, just as you said, crashed and burned within 3 weeks. But since actual intelligent people aren't as low IQ as you are, they keep trying and developing.
1 year ago
Anonymous
the colossal irony of you using the development of airplanes to justify your fantasy of continuing failed experimentation while claiming anyone else is too low IQ to even realize how stupid they are.
we already knew flight was possible because birds exist. limited human flight and gliding already existed before the airplane was invented. humans conceptualized flight for hundreds of years before airplanes were invented. the first wright brothers flights were considered proof of success and led to renewed passion in further experimentation and perfection.
and none of that has anything to do with the fact that pain is one of the key factors that has led all complex life to where it is today, and without it we would not exist because we would have no self-preservation instinct.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>we already knew flight was possible because birds exist
Okay, we already knew a perfect world exists because dreams exist.
I guess I will have to wait 20 more minutes for your next subzero IQ take.
Progression is only necessary because of nature's rules
I'll go further and say that at the end of ther day progression is just a tool to attain happiness and convenience
Maruki's world gives you happiness directly
no need for pregression
>no need for pregression
If that was the case then japanese Junpei wouldn't have become a sports star you moron.
You fail to understand that people will naturally progress and better themselves because that's human nature. Pain is irrelevant to that. Japanese Junpei didn't just slack off under maruki's world, he focused on his career to achieve greatness.
>You fail to understand that people will naturally progress and better themselves because that's human natur
You're fricking moronic
how many people do you see get worse IRL throughout their lives? The bunch that actually improve are a minority
And what about those who can't improve? Those who get cancer? Those who are born in a 3rd world country were they're sold to human traffickers? Are you telling them to improve too moron?
1 year ago
Anonymous
He's telling them tough shit you lost the lottery.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>how many people do you see get worse IRL throughout their lives?
All of them. Getting old sucks. >And what about those who can't improve? Those who get cancer? Those who are born in a 3rd world country were they're sold to human traffickers? Are you telling them to improve too moron?
What do you mean by this? Yes they should improve. Why the frick should 3rd worlders not try to become 1st worlders? What a stupid post holy shit.
1 year ago
Anonymous
You"re genuinly moronic
1 year ago
Anonymous
>What do you mean by this? Yes they should improve. Why the frick should 3rd worlders not try to become 1st worlders?
You misunderstand. Follow your logic to its end. You're saying pain is good for people without recourse or hope of improvement because other people are fortunate enough to be born into a situation where they have recourse from pain.
1 year ago
Anonymous
This.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Thank you for samegayging. I forgot to reply to your post.
>What do you mean by this? Yes they should improve. Why the frick should 3rd worlders not try to become 1st worlders?
You misunderstand. Follow your logic to its end. You're saying pain is good for people without recourse or hope of improvement because other people are fortunate enough to be born into a situation where they have recourse from pain.
I don't get it. I never said pain is good.
1 year ago
Anonymous
So we're in agreement maruki is right. Good. Still some sane people left.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Yeah, I was arguing for maruki ;_; why did you attack me?
>All these people putting complete faith in Maruki despite the game making repeated arguments toward how imperfect a single man can be.
No shit everything would be perfect if the world was ruled by a perfect man who had the perfect solution to everything and always changed the world perfectly to adapt to everyone's constantly changing and evolving definitions of what pain and pleasure is, but the world isn't perfect you perfect morons.
In the greater context of 'humanity' and the 'real world', I don't see why Maruki would be wrong to do as he pleases.
I can find video feed right now of gay russian rape and dead soldiers across miles of fields.
Not to mention everything about Mexico, always.
If Maruki had seen half of the stuff I have seen and then made his decision to do that, the fact a bunch of middle class japanese students try telling him 'no dude suffering is good' only jades me further.
Between a world with what we have, and an ideal easy-mode world, I wouldn't be fighting Maruki to preserve this.
Would any of you?
Maruki's problem is essentially Theodicy, the philosophy asking "why does evil exist?" or "why did a perfect God create an imperfect world?"
I think the best answer, though it definitely doesn't satisfy everyone, is to basically deny that "evil" exists.
Good can come from the worst atrocities you can imagine, and whatever you imagine as "perfect" can always be better. As much suffering as there is in the world, there is more good, and that good is reason enough for it all to exist.
>Between a world with what we have, and an ideal easy-mode world, I wouldn't be fighting Maruki to preserve this. >Would any of you?
God no. We live in a world where a man wins an award for taking a picture of a dying infant, where shrines are made out of the bones of people killed in war crimes, where people are taught to frick each other over for money and everyone hates everyone.
Hell, I'd even take a Meteor at this point.
Sure you can. Mental pain can be torment or annoyance. Now a world where nothing is annoying would actually be appealing. I think the game is supposed to mean trauma since so many people bring up the shiho rape
>Maruki's persona is literally Azathoth, the "blind idiot god". >If Azathoth awakens, the world ends.
Dunno how much more blatant it can get than this, except for his persona evolution being Adam Kadmon, the primordial man who tasted the fruit of knowledge. Maruki tasted adversity and evolved from it, while he still wants to remove adversity altogether. What a hypocrite.
>Work my ass off at low end jobs so my child can go to school and become a lawyer or something and have a comfy life >"NOOOOO YOU HAVE TO LET HIM SUFFER WAGEKEKING"
Why are Maruki threads full of the most brainlet takes imaginable when the game shows you through the people on the streets the flaws with Maruki's reality where it is "Path of least resistance".
Thank god you finally opened your eyes. I was afraid we would have to go on a 300 posts charade while you keep posting tranime images.
>comes into a jrpg thread. >Gets upset when he sees a character from the game posted.
I don't think anyone will ever agree with you if you keep going on like that.
Just because I watch anime, play anime games, love japan, hate the west, buy figurines and japanese posters, doesn't mean I should just be okay with homosexuals saving tranime images on their computer. Tranime posting isn't part of the package I signed up for. Are you watching Dr. Stone next week? I know I am.
Without pain you literally have no reference on what happiness is. Even his goal and desire of an utopia is driven by his knowledge of pain. If he didn't know it, he would be a soulless robot who wouldn't care his wife died or wouldn't even comprehend the possibility of losing her and appreciating her more because of that.
Under Maruki's world, the world won't feel despair, and so it would fend off that evil thing Door-kun is shielding the world from. Thus, Door-kun would finally stop being a door if Maruki gets his way.
If (You) can side with Adachi, there's probably a route where Yu can side with Maruki or like other anons here suggest, adjust the "scale" of his change.
Yu is a loser and worst Persona game to date.
Under Maruki's world, the world won't feel despair, and so it would fend off that evil thing Door-kun is shielding the world from. Thus, Door-kun would finally stop being a door if Maruki gets his way.
Door-kun is still a door but hypothetically if Maruki could actualize all of humanity to stop yearning for death he could actually live again.
Yu would fight Maruki simply because Maruki’s reality is running away from the truth and creating something that’s easy to believe is the truth.
You DO know that through pain, you can achieve the kingdom of heaven, right? The whole "carry your cross" thing.
In fact, Martyrs are a thing precisely because, despite the pain and usually horrible deaths that they went through, they remained faithful and strong.
That's a big leap you're making from "these extraordinary people should be given respect for the suffering they endured" to "it is a moral benefit to inflict it on everyone"
>bro you need suffering to understand pleasure >says the incel, on the internet, in an imageboard, about fricking videogames
I sure remember suffering when I played Pacman in 1985 you motherfricking morons Its not 2 sides of the same coin, you can live with just one.
>NOOO YOU DON'T GET IT, THE FEAR OF DEATH IS WHAT MAKES LIVING LE GOOD >how do I know ? well...I heard it somewhere and it sounded smart lol
Remove pain. Remove death. Remove suffering. We will find fun and purpose in other ways. Stop coping you fricking morons.
>People arguing in real world terms >When within context of the Personaverse with the great game being played on the metaphysical level Maruki is going to frick shit up.
There is literally a disease where people feel no pain and it really isn't as glamorous as you think. If you could have a healing factor akin to wolverine then yea no pain would make more sense.
I can't tell if these threads are a bunch of people flexing their larp muscle if they're really, really depressed.
Maruki was well intentioned, but his world was literally falling apart at the seams after a month. And assuming he couldn't stop his aging process, humanity would go extinct within like a month of him dying
Even regardless of everything else, forcing Akechi into his reality when he continually rejects it is so twisted. It also feels like such a betrayal on Joker's part, doesn't feel like something he'd ever do even if he agreed with Maruki.
No, that's moronic. Besides emotional pain, there's physical pain as well. It is a way for our brains to express (potential) danger or injury. Without pain we'd all be some kind of Lepers
I have not played the game so I don't know what he is. Even then, you're a moron if you think psychiatrists don't deal with chronic physical pain patients
so you be saying its a good thing there are people out there with chronic physical pain? think about what you type, even if we add the bullshit you just said to the statement in the OP, it changes nothing about what I said.
Your point is that chronic physical pain is a good thing then? Say it. I want to hear you type that out with a straight face.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Didn't I just say it isn't? You're thinking too one dimensional. Psychologist deal with all kind of pains, not just chronic pains.
1 year ago
Anonymous
he isnt a psychologist
so you be saying chronic pain is bad or good? be honest
1 year ago
Anonymous
Not that anon you're replying to, but you can always learn from a cripple for treatments for other cripples in the future. And usually cripples or other sick people value their health more than other healthy people. That is a gain on their experience and mental level, whether you like it or not.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I'm not asking you that. Answer the question.
Is chronic physical pain good or not? Would you want to have chronic physical pain? Elaborate on your answers to THESE questions, don't answer me made up questions that were never typed out.
1 year ago
Anonymous
he isnt a psychologist
so you be saying chronic pain is bad or good? be honest
lmao this homie is actually moronic
1 year ago
Anonymous
cope or whatever you kids say these days.
So why didn't Maruki just delete chronic/useless pain?
Follow the instructions, its not that hard.
1 year ago
Anonymous
So why didn't Maruki just delete chronic/useless pain?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Is chronic physical pain good or not?
No, it's not "good." >Would you want to have chronic physical pain?
No, I wouldn't
What are you deriving from these two points?
Is a life in chronic pain not worth living?
Does it not have value?
1 year ago
Anonymous
What I'm "deriving" (if we can call it that) is that you're wishing for others to have chronic physical pain when you yourself don't want to have it. The rest of your questions are hyperbolic garbage so I won't entertain them.
Why did you add quotation marks to "good" regarding chronic physical pain? There is no middle ground here. Either something is neutral (until turned malignant) or beneficial. Which one is it?
Why wouldn't you like to have chronic physical pain?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>you're wishing for others to have chronic physical pain
No, I'm not.
Chronic pain and other ailments exist, and people have to live with them. If there was a way to alleviate their pain with no string attached, I would certainly want them to have access to it.
But I would not force it on them. Their pain is part of who they are.
>Why did you add quotation marks to "good" regarding chronic physical pain?
Because "good" is a moral or value judgement, not an objective quality.
I don't think chronic pain is "good" and wouldn't want to experience it, because it would cause me suffering and reduce my quality of life.
But that criteria can be applied to many qualities. Birth defects, Down Syndrome, deafness, blindness, one's height or skin color. All of these are qualities a person can have that can cause them suffering in their life.
Are these qualities not "good?" Do people not live good lives, despite having these qualities? Aren't these qualities part of who they are?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Chronic pain and other ailments exist,
Stop right there. Hold that thought. The rest of your sentence was garbage, but this part is has merit. >Because "good" is a moral or value judgement, not an objective quality.
No, it is not. Is eating rotten meat good? Is chewing a rock good? Is cutting off your dick good? Is holding your bladder good? Is never turning off your stove good?
If you're a moralgay, you already lost this battle. Morality is what keeps humans from evolving and advancing in real life. Moralgays are also the dumbest motherfrickers on the planet. So I hope to GOD you just mispoke back then because I can give you another 15 examples of things that are objectively A or B. >I don't think chronic pain is "good" and wouldn't want to experience it, because it would cause me suffering and reduce my quality of life.
And you wouldn't want others to experience it either, right? That's what you said. >But that criteria can be applied to many qualities. Birth defects, Down Syndrome, deafness, blindness
Hold it. Yes, that's the point. We are focusing on what you said (chronic pain) but we are actually speaking about all of those. >Are these qualities not "good?" Do people not live good lives, despite having these qualities? Aren't these qualities part of who they are?
Irrelevant.
Now, let's summarize.
Chronic pain is not good.
You won't want chronic pain.
You don't wish chronic pain on others.
Do you wish humans could find a cure to chronic pain?
1 year ago
Anonymous
I don't know why you wasted your time typing out all that bullshit that amounts to "nuh uh" just to cap it off by asking me a question I already answered in the same post.
1 year ago
Anonymous
No, you didn't. Answer the question.
I also didn't want to seem like I skipped all your post, I read you very carefully ;_;
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Chronic pain and other ailments exist,
Stop right there. Hold that thought. The rest of your sentence was garbage, but this part is has merit. >Because "good" is a moral or value judgement, not an objective quality.
No, it is not. Is eating rotten meat good? Is chewing a rock good? Is cutting off your dick good? Is holding your bladder good? Is never turning off your stove good?
If you're a moralgay, you already lost this battle. Morality is what keeps humans from evolving and advancing in real life. Moralgays are also the dumbest motherfrickers on the planet. So I hope to GOD you just mispoke back then because I can give you another 15 examples of things that are objectively A or B. >I don't think chronic pain is "good" and wouldn't want to experience it, because it would cause me suffering and reduce my quality of life.
And you wouldn't want others to experience it either, right? That's what you said. >But that criteria can be applied to many qualities. Birth defects, Down Syndrome, deafness, blindness
Hold it. Yes, that's the point. We are focusing on what you said (chronic pain) but we are actually speaking about all of those. >Are these qualities not "good?" Do people not live good lives, despite having these qualities? Aren't these qualities part of who they are?
Irrelevant.
Now, let's summarize.
Chronic pain is not good.
You won't want chronic pain.
You don't wish chronic pain on others.
Do you wish humans could find a cure to chronic pain?
>Do you wish humans could find a cure to chronic pain?
>you're wishing for others to have chronic physical pain
No, I'm not.
Chronic pain and other ailments exist, and people have to live with them. If there was a way to alleviate their pain with no string attached, I would certainly want them to have access to it.
But I would not force it on them. Their pain is part of who they are.
>Why did you add quotation marks to "good" regarding chronic physical pain?
Because "good" is a moral or value judgement, not an objective quality.
I don't think chronic pain is "good" and wouldn't want to experience it, because it would cause me suffering and reduce my quality of life.
But that criteria can be applied to many qualities. Birth defects, Down Syndrome, deafness, blindness, one's height or skin color. All of these are qualities a person can have that can cause them suffering in their life.
Are these qualities not "good?" Do people not live good lives, despite having these qualities? Aren't these qualities part of who they are?
>If there was a way to alleviate their pain with no string attached, I would certainly want them to have access to it. >But I would not force it on them. Their pain is part of who they are.
Your position is "bad things are bad, and bad things must be stamped out"
My position is "people live with the good and the bad, it's not my place to decide what is bad for other people, just as I wouldn't have anyone decide what is bad for me"
Blindness and deafness are certainly qualities that cause people substantial suffering in their life. And yet they live with it, gaining from it unique perspectives and experiences, goods that they would not and could not obtain otherwise. People make their disability part of their identity, forming communities and bonding with others over it. Some forms of blindness and deafness are curable, but some of these people would and do outright refuse to be treated for their "suffering."
Should they forced to be "cured," because their disability is "bad?"
Inflicting blindness or deafness upon an innocent child would certainly be a terrible act of harm. But if they would be naturally born with the condition (or even a propensity toward it) and it was discovered in the womb, should the parent be allowed to abort them to "prevent their suffering" by denying them life?
Maybe these conditions shouldn't exist at all. Rather than a "cure," find a way to magically do away with them altogether, as if they had never existed. Is that the right thing to do, to get rid of this "bad?"
But who are you to make that judgement? You were just told how people whose lives have been defined by their conditions have lived good lives, finding community and love because of the "bad" inflicted on them.
You would deny them that, because they way they lived wasn't as "good" as you imagined it could be? You might as well be killing them.
1 year ago
Anonymous
You shifted focus again. Not touching 90% of your post since its irrelevant to the topic.
Are you also anti-vaxx and anti-pills? What do you do when you fall ill? Do you wish for others to not take medication?
I'm asking you these questions because you said you only want chronic pain removed if there are no strings attached. This means
- No vaccines
- No diets
- No pills
- No doctors
Because being part of a society 'forces' you to adhere to societal norms, aka: attachments. You're expected to pay for your medication, to not take pills on an empty stomach, to respect your doctors recipe (take pill ONLY at night), you get the gist.
That's what I got from your post, a very wordy way to say "I actually don't want humans t o find the cure for chronic pain"
1 year ago
Anonymous
honestly dont argue further anon
he is probably trolling or just delusional to think that every person that has a sickness is unhappy with their lives and should just kill themselves to alleviate the pain that comes with the suffering
And also just naive to classify everything as "good" or "bad"
Watch as he says some form of "I didn't read your post and will just focus on one particular point"
1 year ago
Anonymous
Well I gave you a second chance but you're obviously not interested in having a serious discussion. Sorry, I'm not interested in talking in circles.
Yeah I'm wasting my breath. I just want people stop being naive, find some peace in acceptance and maybe read a fricking book.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Well I gave you a second chance but you're obviously not interested in having a serious discussion.
I'm tho. You on the other hand are bent on going on a tangent.
I don't give a FRICK about what an individual person might feel or want. We are talking about the nature value of an illness here. Not about human spirit, not about human progress, not about human maturity. Not about humans at all.
We are focusing entirely on what is biologically acceptable for a living organism, human or not (dogs for example, also suffer from chronic pain). >Sorry, I'm not interested in talking in circles.
The conversation moves forward when you actually follow it.
I'm going to have to guess you misspoke, once again (as you did when you claimed nothing can be absolutely good. Since you didn't consider modern medicine is literally filled with attachments. >and maybe read a fricking book.
I suggest you pick one about biology, pick up one focusing on cells. I warn you tho, they ain't gonna talk about the morality of a malignant cell lol
1 year ago
Anonymous
I'm not that anon but can you read my post again?
I said that you can learn from it. Whether it is "good" or not depends on the person. Would I like to feel pain, or have a stump on my leg? Frick no.
But there's plenty of other people that has suffered through it and others that try to learn from it. How do you think medicine is developed even? Do you think that even the common cold was easily curable in olden times? From suffering man is able to learn and evolve from it, me and yours won't want to go through it but it gives a lesson in which people can learn from. >inb4 so you want to have chronic physical pain?
In which there's no point in entertaining you anymore.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I'm not that anon but can you read my post again?
No, Your post was irrelevant to topic at hand, a huge deviation from the argument. But maybe I will re-touch your "take" later on. I understand you're trying to make a point but its a worthless one.
Didnt play the game but how does this guy's world work exactly? Can you undo stuff or do you just not feel anything at all? Or does it make everything easy mode like you just need to give a bit of effort to do anything?
Well either way any of these are just cope and running from the truth. Suffering, despair and hope is what makes life worth living and if everyone's the same and joyful everyday then nobody would care about anyone or anything.
If a mother doesn't need to go through 9 months of suffering and birthing a baby is simply a gacha roll away, you wouldn't exist since she wants the perfect one.
If everything is cheap or free even, what would be the point of society and economy? People will just do nothing and rot away in their homes with endless joy since they not know what else to do or to seek for in their lives.
If everyone is nigh immortal and can do or make anything, what would be the point of living? Your dreams and goal won't even exist since you know not what to strive for since everything is readily available for you. The only thing to look forward to is death since you can't do it multiple times.
Thats such a low iq take. When mankind inevitably nullifies all maladies and can essentially live forever, do you expect the species to just willing extinct itself because they no longer have a "reason to suffer"? As for "hope", it goes both way. There is a tipping point where suffering smuthers all sense of hope in a being.
Nyarly's undoubtedly. Philemon, despite his inaction outside of setting up the Velvet Room, desires for humanity to prosper. Nyarlathotep only wants ruin and chaos, and despite the Phantom Thieves being chaosgays, they are definitely not on Nyarlathotep's side as they're advocating for people to become more than what others are oppressing them to be.
Alright Marukigays answer me this. Assume there is a guy who is in love with a girl but said girl rejects him. What would be the morally correct course of action here? Brainwashing the boy to stop being in love or brainwash the girl to accept the boy's feeling? There is no other option.
He is a psychiatrist, right? That +god powers he could help him overcome his chemical desires for that specific girl/help him realize that she is not his only chance for love or alternatively, help to figure out how he can become the type of man that the girl would like.
Ok but that's not how he went about things, he just forced the girl to date the guy. He doesn't nudge people towards the "correct" course of action, he just forces them into the path that would make him, personally, feel the least bad. What he does has nothing to do with how others feel, it's all a martyr complex and projection.
And surprise, he could probably do what you suggested without the god powers.
Uh can someone explain what would be stopping Maruki from just torturing everyone forever? He's a god and he'll be utterly alone for all of eternity while everyone lives in their supposed paradise. What exactly stops him from going batshit after year 2.189.134 and making your reality Eternal Rapeworld for kicks?
It's about the "could." Having your ruler be accountable to you in some manner is vital to prevent them from doing insane shit like siphoning trillions to make a personal mansion and shit. Maruki would be an eternal ruler that cannot be fought against and cannot be held accountable.
There is NO HUMAN that can be trusted with this power. I would not trust myself with it, and I wouldn't trust some rando school counselor with total domain of reality for all of eternity.
>There is NO HUMAN that can be trusted with this power. > other than asserting out of world assumptions
no human can make a force ghost come out of them and shoot things, either
>no human can make a force ghost come out of them and shoot things, either
The force ghost did not make Maruki any more wise or reasonable. He literally erased a baby because the parents were too stressed by dealing with it, and he murdered Sumire and slapped a copy of Kasumi atop her corpse because ??????
>. He literally erased a baby
morel likely he transferred the baby to a couple that WISHED they had one
1 year ago
Anonymous
now who's asserting out of world assumptions
1 year ago
Anonymous
what else would he do?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Why would he "transfer" an existing baby to a couple that wanted one instead of giving that couple their own baby?
Actually, that raises the question of what he did to pregnancy, childbirth, and early child-rearing as a whole. All incredibly sucky parts of human life that can ultimately be very rewarding. Did he excise them entirely from the human experience?
1 year ago
Anonymous
of course he didnt, frick women
because the alternative is killing a baby, and he is such a pussy he won't even kill joker
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Maruki hates seeing people suffer so much he rewrites reality entirely to remove suffering >but he hates women even more
honestly pretty based
but also just avoiding the question because you don't actually have an answer
1 year ago
Anonymous
>their own baby?
it would be their own baby, because if that's what they wanted, that's what they would have believed. that's literally the entire point. he's altering their cognition, and because cognition dictates reality, that becomes truth.
Nothing lasts forever. Whether Maruki would be immortal in order to maintain dominion over his new world or if it would persist to some degree after he passes, eventually SOMETHING would have to give.
The natural state of the world would begin to decay, and no matter what level of cope we're on, we couldn't ignore natural disasters, pandemics, or something as simple as a small accident that costs someone their life. Once anyone gets snapped out of the illusion, they're going to start snapping others. Even if Maruki tried to shuffle them back into place, it's the natural state of some humans to rebel against that sort of oppression. New persona users would probably rise up and eventually defeat him.
It is inevitable, and thus a moot point. Even if Maruki were to succeed for a time, eventually destiny arrives all the same.
Nothing lasts forever. Unless you're implying that he's found a way to halt the flow of time while allowing the world to continue moving, which is a pretty big fricking reach.
He didn't create heaven on earth, he's just warped everyone's minds so they're in a constant vague state of contentment with their life, even if they still have problems.
its marukis will, you cant unmaruki the world unless another stronger god shows up from outer space
Maruki destroys Nyx so only nyarla could pose a threat
You realize he was going to rewrite reality, yes? His final solution was to make the things he made people think, actually real. The story literally tells you that cognition=reality. This power was shown the first time with the disappearance of the Phantom Thieves, and again with Marunki reviving the dead. Wakaba and Akechi are explicitly stated not to be cognitions. Eliminating natural disasters would be a simple matter.
He can't stop decay, and if things cannot decay, then how can the world sustain a population that never dies and continues to grow?
Would people not question that random point in history where we all became immortal and sanguine?
its marukis will, you cant unmaruki the world unless another stronger god shows up from outer space
Maruki destroys Nyx so only nyarla could pose a threat
If it's possible, then in the infinite time in which his world exists, it will happen. It is inevitable.
>He can't stop decay,
He literally revived people. >then how can the world sustain a population that never dies and continues to grow?
Its a big universe where magic is real.
So Maruki's answer to all that ails people is just >No one gets hurt >No one dies >The world stays as it is at the point of Actualization, and expands continually to support infinite life >No one ever questions these developments
At what point does this stop being him trying to """help""" us and start being him turning us into puppets that just do whatever he thinks is "right".
This sounds less appealing the more you push the range of his abilities. And it still doesn't guarantee that it can be maintained. In a infinite universe, all things that can happen, will happen. To include, someone or something causing that to come undone.
he probably just deleted the possibility of new children being born since everything involved in it after the initial moment of creation involves suffering and/or pain
1 year ago
Anonymous
You didn't play the game. He forces a woman to date an incel against her will.
He isn't the autistic "anti-pain" savant you think he is.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Instead of making the incel a person women would want to date, he made a woman date the incel.
He took away a couple's baby because it was stressing them out instead of making early childhood not stressful on parents.
He puts band-aids on individual problems instead of fixing root causes of pain and sufffering. Oh, you're having a difficult pregnancy? Boom, you were never pregnant in the first place.
>Would people not question that random point in history where we all became immortal and sanguine?
You mean like the millions expecting the 2nd coming of Christ or a prophecy of apocalypse? Plus with literally god powers, earth becomes a limitless plane that can support infinite lives, if the act of birthing is even necessary at the point beyond a hobby. Depending how far this warping of the laws of reality was planned to go, humanity would likely be transitioning into higher beings like angels, free of their mortal physical and mental hindering.
why would humanity have any ambitions beyond staying where they are if they're already happy? Maruki even specifically removes ambitions and dreams of something greater from people.
>I want to learn piano! >that seems like it would be hard and might not work out for you, you're a fisherman now >ok I guess
1 year ago
Anonymous
No:
How many times do you morons need to be told: It is not aspiration that Maruki makes decisions on, it is what is the least painful option. There is a painter in game who really wants to get really good, but then in Maruki's world he becomes a fisherman because "it's easier".
Yeah, but it wasn't his aspiration was it? Aspiration and dreams do not factor into Maruki's decision for you.
1 year ago
Anonymous
maruki told him he sucked at piano, the dude liked fishing, maruki shifted his focus
also >removes ambitions and dreams of something greater
you meant a shitty artist? lmao
at least he learnt an actual skill now
1 year ago
Anonymous
>who cares what he wanted, I made him more useful to society
Why haven't you killed yourself yet?
1 year ago
Anonymous
I'm useful to society
aka: got an actual job instead of wasting my time being a trans-artist
1 year ago
Anonymous
Follow your logic to its conclusion anon. Do you even like video games?
1 year ago
Anonymous
I played p5r, didnt I?
1 year ago
Anonymous
You didn't answer me but you're saying if you follow your logic all the way down is that because people start mediocre or often bad at artistry then they should never do it. You wouldn't have played p5.
1 year ago
Anonymous
mm yes?
I didnt play p5, I dont waste my time with mediocrity
1 year ago
Anonymous
I don't think you understand your own logic. People should only ever do anything useful?
1 year ago
Anonymous
enlighten me about my argument
>I played p5r >I didn't play p5
whuh?
that's correct
1 year ago
Anonymous
>enlighten me about my argument
Do you like video games?
1 year ago
Anonymous
only when they are good, what gives?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Good video games are made by artists, programmers, etc. They all had to start out as bad or mediocre. You say here:
I'm useful to society
aka: got an actual job instead of wasting my time being a trans-artist
Follow your logic all the way, and you're saying people who are bad at an instrument or something should just stop and do something else instead of trying to improve. Many good video games you have played would not have been made with your logic.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I played p5r >I didn't play p5
whuh?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Are you? What do you do that is useful to society?
1 year ago
Anonymous
I code
1 year ago
Anonymous
Code what?
1 year ago
Anonymous
whatever they ask me to code, sometimes its a simple batch file to change the filename of a file database on windows, but most of the time are functionality of intra websites
I love wagecucking
Good video games are made by artists, programmers, etc. They all had to start out as bad or mediocre. You say here: [...]
Follow your logic all the way, and you're saying people who are bad at an instrument or something should just stop and do something else instead of trying to improve. Many good video games you have played would not have been made with your logic.
Good video games are made by programmers alone.
not like my life would change much if you remove videogames I liked, its a hobby
I make fantasy worlds and write storylines as if I was making a game, like create a world in photoshop, and then edit the biomes of the world, then start thinking what kind of creature would live here, and what is its history, thats how I get most of my entertainment, so yeah you can delete all videogames if you want
I read books too, malazan is based
1 year ago
Anonymous
doesn't seem like you're useful to society at all really >Good video games are made by programmers alone.
you're saying Persona 5's music, writing, and artstyle have nothing to do with why it's good? Because it's a pretty bog-standard JRPG without those things.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I mean, I loved smt1, looked and sounded like shit
gameplay and good code is all that matters
>Good video games are made by programmers alone
Incorrect. There are writers involved, who also had to start out as bad before they got good. There are art directors, artists, animators, etc. Even programmers had to start bad. With your logic, nothing would get made. Not, entertainment not cooking utensils because you are saying and have said if someone is bad at something they should do something else instead of trying to improve. You don't understand what you're actually saying, you're just talking. Blowing smoke as is said.
not really, I was never bad at programming, just like I was never bad at math, not everyone is a loser
1 year ago
Anonymous
>not everyone is a loser >says the programmer who does random scutwork for other people
lmao
1 year ago
Anonymous
I like my job, and people love me too
1 year ago
sage goes in all fields
>not really, I was never bad at programming, just like I was never bad at math,
Maybe, maybe not. I don't know you, but you didn't start out as adept or good as you are now. Again, with your logic. Nothing would be made. Maybe you don't realize that, maybe you don't care, or maybe you're taking me for a ride, but your logic 1000% ends with nothing being made, yet you enjoy the end result of the hard work of individuals who undoubtedly did not start out good at what they do. You are absolutely not worth listening to, and anybody who replies to the after this is a moron.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>but you didn't start out as adept or good as you are now.
neither did the fishing guy, so I don't really see your point
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Good video games are made by programmers alone
Incorrect. There are writers involved, who also had to start out as bad before they got good. There are art directors, artists, animators, etc. Even programmers had to start bad. With your logic, nothing would get made. Not, entertainment not cooking utensils because you are saying and have said if someone is bad at something they should do something else instead of trying to improve. You don't understand what you're actually saying, you're just talking. Blowing smoke as is said.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Nobody who is useful to society feels the need to try to fight to affirm that on Ganker. You’re probably too young to post here.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I'm 35, being here for 2 years before we made samus the internet's b***h.
If earth literally transitions to a heaven like existence, thats it, thats humanities end goal, be it reached through science or some supernatural cosmic event. What is the point of discovery if you have already reached an end point that any sentient life would likely seek out? Humans have to move because they are forced to. If that reason no longer exists because its been eliminated, they will be able to enjoy essentially paradise.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>What is the point
precisely
1 year ago
Anonymous
You dont need a point at that point.
1 year ago
Anonymous
then why would anyone do anything, ever?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Nobody would, that's the counterpoint to the idea. Maruki's utopia is endless stagnation and lack of change but at least you feel good about it.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Whats the point of heaven then? Its a perfect state of being where the need to do anything a human mind thinks they have to do to be happy no longer exists.
He is, because in his world it CAN be avoided because he can summon a god that does his bidding.
In the real world however pain is part of life, it can't be avoided no matter what you do.
I can't believe the third semester redeemed him so hard, it was so fricking fun to see him be a cold and deranged psycho, damn shame it only lasted for 1 palace
Is it that surprising? Utilitarianism is basically the foundation of our godless modern world, I've taken philosophy classes where it's all but taught as "morally correct."
Pain, the aversion to it and what it teaches us is probably what has kept us alive for so long
Imagine if an unhinged idiot manages to get it's hands on a nuke. The world as a whole has evaded shit like nuclear fallout just because everyone is afraid of the consequences of striking first.
Pain is not necessary to have common sense. If you are stupid, pain is necessary. Since humans as a whole were too stupid to realize the ill effects a nuclear weapon would produce, they now suffer for the state of the world created. Hopefully, humans will evolve to a point where those painful lessons are no longer necessary.
Pain is far more important to the human condition than just learning what we should and shouldn’t do. It’s bigger than concepts like common sense.
I also very much doubt the day will ever come that humanity doesn’t actually need it. It’s a part of what makes the human animal a human that we act and are designed how we are. With no pain, you’d be something else. Probably less, as people born without sensation like physical or emotional pain are regularly considered disabled.
>as people born without sensation like emotional pain are regularly considered disabled.
Psychopaths are well known for being able to blend in and outplay the system. You're wrong.
>Psychopaths are well known for being able to blend in and outplay the system.
You need to follow that sentence up with the caveat of "For a short amount of time before they have to move"
Literally all of human advancement is to reduce pain. It will (outside extinction)get to a point where science and evolution and society as a whole has come to a point of enlightenment that has them looking purely from a logical big picture view, everyone on the same page of discussion and discourse, that the presence of "pain" can exist as a thing to avoid or a warning if missteps are taken, rather then needing to actually feel its effects.
If you and me are together in a room and we have a knife sitting on a table, we are likely intelligent enough that we know if one of us stabs the other with the knife it will cause pain to them and that person will likely fight back to stop being stabbed and hurt the stabber in the process. We can both agree its a good idea we dont try to stab the other person. We dont need to be stabbed before we learn this lesson because we know a knife is sharp and is designed to cut.
We may technically be animals, but so much of human progress is about becoming more then that. Relying only on pain to be a lesson teacher is being primitive at a certain point, the modern equivalent of a caveman putting his hand in a fire. Maybe in the past we needed those lessons to understand the consequences, but it would be very sad if the worst case scenario is always our teacher.
NPCs everywhere during his arc were giving up on life because they were so content, no one brings this up in the main cast which i thought was weird, budget i guess
No. The only characters who are ever treated as correct in this series are heroic characters. Villains are either just straight up bullshitting or don’t fully understand what they’re fricking with in the first place. Even P4s Adachi, who is very confident about his brand of bullshit, was basically a just a jackass playing with power he shouldn’t.
Same shit, persona villains tend to think they’ve figured things out, yet their abuses of power or other usually sees harm come to them or their goals. They’re even typically utterly powerless to do anything about it when it happens. Whether it is bad deeds backfiring or ending up the victim if the phantom thieves. The series is about learning to live well with yourself and others, which heroes can do properly and villains never can.
Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from.
I don't really think the point of life is just to feel good as much as possible. That'll cause you to burn out on said good things. And if you had some mechanism to just feel good all the time artificially I feel like at that point your mental state is barely even human. Impossible to relate to.
It's just such a fundamental human thing to crave some kind of stress or struggle. Even with shit like farming games, the "comfy" games people whip out to say "not everyone enjoys challenge you know!!" The progression to getting your farm in a place you like it is still a grind. It would be a severe test of my patience for one thing because I think those games are boring as sin.
Yes you all are some weird frick. Let me punch you in the balls everyday and tell me that shit is needed for your growth or whatever dumb shit you all say.
I like how the PTs had literally no come back or retort for what Maruki was proposing until you are about to beat him, even then it's piss weak, like how do you justify wanting to reintroduce suffering morally
He had to be stopped, not because he was wrong but because at the end of the day he is human and if his morality slips it might be too late to stop him.
This is the only correct direction of the conflict they should have reinforced. Otherwise it comes off as like edgy teens with limited worldview trying to stop the 2nd coming of Christ to help humanity. Its hard to justify their shit unless you are a turbo masochist or chaos worshiper.
I'd atleast give Atlus credit if they wrote an epilogue where they reflect on what they just prevented and how maybe in the heat of the moment their own egos made them prevent something that would have possibly been a major benefit to the world, being teens who didn't think out all angles and opinions and only using their own misguided feelings.
I mean in the idea of, here is this god like being returning to save humanity. As i said, the direction of him being a flawed being should have been the main focus of concern and gives a more sympathetic reason to rally to heroes who on the surface are coming off as trying to prevent the end of human suffering.
>here is this god like being returning to save humanity
Anon, he's not trying to save humanity.
Maruki is changing the world so everyone goes through life by the path of least resistance. No fuss no muss, catch me?
That is saving humanity though from the very nature of enduring suffering. The main concept is "this entity can put an end to human suffering", the conflict is and should have more heavily leaned on "the entity with this power is a flawed mortal". That then gives a better idea as to why this could be disastrous for humanity and you could more heavily ally with why the heroes want to stop it. The path of least resistance means to achieve that end to suffering could work in showing he is still flawed in his way of approaching using this ability, lacking the mental foresight on how to properly use such a miraculous ability.
He is not a Jesus and thats the point, if Jesus came back and edgy teens start fighting him despite purely benevolent means and a mental clarity to aid humanity, then it makes it hard to agree with the actions of a hero. If flawed, pedophile Ganker anon says he is going to save humanity, then i am worried how he plans to do that and I can see why heroes would want to intervene. The point is Atlus didn't do a great job making that the obvious point of contention, if it was ever their intent to do so and instead only see it as "all suffering is good suffering". These kids especially are not in the right to decide that, their brains arnt even fully developed and they have barely any life experiences to draw from. They just come off as emotion fueled. At the very least show how both sides are pushed by their emotions and have good and bad points to their ideals they champion.
no
he's a defeatist b***h
He's the exact opposite of defeatist. He goes to extreme lengths to challenge the status quo everyone else just accepts.
He challenges the status quo in favor of instant gratification and hedonism.
Pain teaches you how to live. Most spoiled kids won't have any chance of partaking in our workforce and that's their overly protective parents' fault.
This is bs or only 50% of the story. The truth is pain and suffering is only sometimes a motivator. Its ignorant of those who just get completely obliterated and crushed by it. Are you going to throw a crippled child to the ground and tell him to get up and fight you? There is a major difference between minor inconvenience and legitimate suffering that your own will can not overcome due to factual limitations and physical boundaries. Same goes with the "you never get anywhere if you dont take a chance" ideology. Yes, its a nice thing to think that you just need to take a big risk and you will succeed, but no one ever wants to accept or acknowledge the reality of those who do risk it all, fail horribly and are now in a position worse then they began. Suffering means nothing as some kind of life lesson put in place by the universe, its an unpredictable outcome you either get back up from or not. If suffering was so important to the human self, our species would not constantly be trying to find ways to reduce or stop it.
>Are you going to throw a crippled child to the ground and tell him to get up and fight you?
Yes.
the only people who say this are people who have not felt genuine agony before. for your sake, i hope you never have to, because you very likely would not survive it.
Beat your kids, moron. Otherwise they'll grow up self-entitled, stupid and ignorant.
I suffered a midshaft femur fracture when I was 23 so you better believe I know what it's like to be in extreme agony. Having said that, pain is extremely important. It lets you know that "oh shit, there's something wrong with my body and I better do something about it". It's basically an alarm system for your body, hence the reason why conditions such as CIPA are considered extremely serious.
>uhhh i broke a bone buddy i THINK I KNOW A THING OR TWO ABOUT PAIN
case in point
A midshaft femur fracture is one of the most painful things you can experience. Also extremely life threatening. You'd know that if you hadn't flunked basic anatomy.
Says you. I grew up well-off but it had the unfortunate side effect of my parents giving me stupidly high standards
Yes, as a normal human being and not an edgelord who takes pride in pain and suffering.
Maruki is 100% right.
>want to do something
>might fail
>therefore you should give up before you even try
pussy
>risk everything in life to do what i want to do
>end up failing horribly or realizing i made a terrible mistake after doing it
>oops, sorry you literally ruined your life i guess
but what if you succeed?
what ifs dont pay the bills son
get off Ganker, dad
have a nice day, Black personhomosexual.
Then you succeed and people parrot your experience as prove the gamble was worth it. Nobody heard about or wants to hear about the failures.
Maybe try working in the grey and not defaulting to extremes.
The idea is to slowly work at finding success, not to avoid trying or gambling your life on risky scenarios.
That would be the better moral. To plan things out, have a safety net, prepared for the worst case scenario. But thats not the popular mindset to parrot. Its "take a risk".
even with careful planning and a safety net, you still have to actually take the risk
But it's significantly minimized, to the point where the loss is negligible.
Going for a walk outside involves a risk, but if you know the area, and it's a known safe location, have a phone, go in the daylight, and are aware of your surroundings, the odds of something bad happening to you are pretty fricking small, outside of freak accidents for which you couldn't have accounted for.
>as a normal human bean
being a normal human is to experience love and loss and to have free will. Maruki's ideal world removes that and youd be no better off than living in the fricking matrix
>muh free will
You need to be 18 or older to post here
>I should have the freedom to rape anyone I want!
>Really like girl
>Ask her out
>She doesn't want to date me
What solution would avoid any pain in this without being fricking dystopian?
>you go to Maruki
>MARUKI-SAMA, I LIKE GIRL!!! SHE NOT LIKE ME!!! WHAT DO?!!
>Maruki: "You can find happiness elsewhere"
>deletes girl from your mind
Youre life status: fixed
>Finds diary I wrote about girl
>wonder why I can't remember her
>What else isn't real?
>having a diary to being with
My mistake. Maruki should have turned into a woman.
>o-oh frick he's making me feel wrong
>Maruki help meeeeee!
Dunno how him turning into a woman would help though
I meant turned YOU into a woman, you diaryhomosexual.
lmao, I mean if he was a woman he could have healed you with SEX
diary I wrote about girl
It wouldn't exist.
>>What else isn't real?
Everything is real, he is directly altering reality.
That's explicitly not what happened in game
>Dude: Maruki-sama girl don't like me but I like her
>Maruki: Now she date you
>Chick-chan: I am dating you but for some reason I don't feel anything for you, but still feel compelled to date you
that just means she was a brainless moron with no aspirations of her own. I mean, she was a woman, and women are objects.
How many times do you morons need to be told: It is not aspiration that Maruki makes decisions on, it is what is the least painful option. There is a painter in game who really wants to get really good, but then in Maruki's world he becomes a fisherman because "it's easier".
that dude liked fishing tho
Yeah, but it wasn't his aspiration was it? Aspiration and dreams do not factor into Maruki's decision for you.
I kneel, I have no counterargument for that.
-chan: I am dating you but for some reason I don't feel anything for you,
Thus far, there is nothing outlandish about this, women do it all the time.
>but still feel compelled to date you
In a way this is also realistic. Which is why women are lying CHEATING prostitutes.
Reality as it very basis is literally atoms moving according to pain and pleasure. Remove pain and you remove life, existence itself.
weed is rotting your brain
Pain exists quite literally to protect you you fricking dunce, when your hand is burning on the stove it's pain that forces you to remove it not logically thinking that you may be burning without paying attention.
these anons who replied think so myopically. if there were no pain, humanity, life, would be so fundamentally different that we couldn’t even comprehend it.
if anything maruki was short sighted and not ambitious enough with what the rational conclusion of OP’s pic related, which is why it made sense to stop him
lots of word yet nothing was actually said
This. We are coming at this with human mindsets sculpted by words of others. Another species may see suffering as totally alien to them as not suffering is to us.
Pain literally defines ones mistakes. It exists in your brain to tell yourself you need to avoid it in the future. It's why you remember pain and not good times as much. In other words, without pain you'd be a ignorant moron and you'd have no lessons, taught or self taught about mistakes and dangers.
In the future, man is going to inevitable have a means to disable pain senors permanently, have visual huds installed in/over our eyes that will show us when something is "wrong" on/in your body.
>Oh, my leg indicator lit up. Look at that, i have a gash on my leg. Good thing i have my self repairing nanofiber applying pressure to that area while i mosey on over to my medipod.
Mistakes do not have to equal literal pain and humans will eventually make it obsolete.
yes but it needs to be a justified state of being by virtue of not being harmed in any way
I like how everyone is arguing with you when even Maruki says "if it can be avoided". He isn't even saying pain shouldn't exist, just that it's moronic to put yourself through unnecessary amounts of it.
There are some pains that should be 100% avoided, but not all of them
Such as?
Rapek4jkd
Growing pains.
Stepping on legos, ouch! 🙁
the real pain is being forced to watch "people" pluralise lego
I bet you are the same kind of moron who gets mad at "pokemons".
pocket monsters
pokemons
i watcheded a pokemons animes the all time wen were youngin
Working out hurts until you get used to it. Doesn’t mean you should just never do it.
Yes.
#HatePain
What an idiot. Pain is necessary.
If pain didn't exist you wouldn't need anesthesia for your dentist checkup.
>pain is what caused him to follow this line of logic whatsoever
>it's what caused him to fight to change things for what he feels is the right cause
>in his perfect world, removal of this pain removes any trigger for members of society to make their own personal leaps forward
>he doesn't realize that he's kicking down the ladder of human progress doing this, and dooming the world to a placid decay
>plenty of moronic people online don't seem to get this either
lawgays are the fricking worst, I would rather pick a chaos ending than your boring, lifeless apocalypses.
Donald Trump never felt any pain and he became president of the US.
will you fricking shut up? it's a removal of 'pain' from all members of society, you're dragging real world politics into this as your first response? okay fine, watch the goddamn debates between him and Biden again, the 2008 depression, oh yeah, he didn't feel any pain then, did he? frick off, braindead c**t.
He didn't. He has and has always been rich as frick.
Go ahead. give me a 200 word essay on all the pain he has endured.
>'rich people don't suffer'
>'do homework'
frick you.
Are u under the belief that rich people dont suffer? or experience hardship because its unequivocal to you
Name 10 times Trump cried.
when doomguy said 'i hate Black folk'
when he won both elections
when his favorite squishmallow got some dirt on it
when the dog said ed...ward
when elden ring smelly poopoo man
when he got kicked from the minecraft server
when he ran out of vape juice
when he failed a 4 plate bench
when i falied a 4 plate bench
Prove to me hes never cried, you made the declaration and need to provide evidence
You're the one claiming he suffered tho, back it up, b***hboy
>WHAT IS BURDEN OF PROOF
>DUR HURR IM GONNA JUST SHIFT THE GOAL POST AND ASK YOU NOW
just have a nice day ya fricking homosexual
Black, you're the only one being a deflecting b***hboy. I have been asking you for source for the past 20 minutes, way before your incely post asking for le ebin burden of proof. Are you gonna back it up or not? I have a life to keep.
you fricking stated rich people dont have hardships, what kinda fricking outlandish statement is that? all people have hardships be they social, fiscal, spiritual etc... To say they havent or couldnt have experienced any WITHOUT BEING SAID FRICKING PERSON you are literally going to have prove it WHICH YOU ARENT
I swear youre probably the same homosexual who was posting about this shit the last time an anon said Maruki was right. Youre a fricking loser who would be better off dead with your attitude
Das rite boyo, I claim _thing_ doesn't exist. You claim it does and that I'm retarted, well, back it up gayggot.
You like to Tongue my anus, I stated it and everyone here knows you tongue my anus. disprove it Black person
>disprove it
That's the difference, I'm asking you to prove something, not disprove it. Which is why the burden of le ebin proof is on you.
Not him but wealthy people should suffer more, it's only fair. Struggle as much as we poor folk do.
Hi, I'm not a part of this conversation chain, but Trump was sent to boarding school, his mother wanted nothing to do with him, and his father + brother were alcoholics.
He also wears a diaper and shits himself in public due to eu sudafed stimulant use.
>Are u under the belief that rich people dont suffer
They don't.
You might be moronic. One of his principles is that people should strive for better things and want to be happier. A father in the sorting chamber chooses to do nothing when presented with the ability to change hearts and is sorted into needing Maruki's help. His philosophy is that exceptional pain, like depression, gets in the way of self-actualization and should be removed.
>you're treated as doing the wrong thing when you choose to act for yourself instead of getting help
Yes, he is a psychiatrist you fricking moron. His job literally depends on people asking for help.
I'm not saying he's right, but it seems like people willfully misinterpret what Maruki's ideology is. Helping someone is noble but it's also not necessarily the right choice. In a lot of situations, it's simply endangering yourself and the victim to try and be a hero. Rarely is it as simple as just telling off a bully. Sure, in America you can CC and be the good guy with a gun but in Japan what is the average person going to do against a thug with an illegal weapon but call for the authorities?
the issue is these questions paint a broad brush over the problem, they lack context, and it might just be to speed the game along, but it makes Maruki's logic seem a lot more shallow than it should be, this game was not the right medium for the subject they were trying to approach.
his system, as described in the game, is set to fail, and yet people on the internet are defending this doomed system, filling the blanks in their heads with how it'll be perfect, similar to literal communist sympathizers.
You miss the obvious qualifier for that specific question in his Palace - that being that the question specifies that you can do it without a chance to get caught, to put yourself in harm's way. Maruki's whole argument is that striving for better things will cause you pain, and in a perfect world you should never have to. It's what he's doing with Azathoth in the first place.
For God's sake, his fricking battle theme literally contains the lyric "You won't need to strive for greatness". That's the whole conflict between him and the Phantom Thieves, that forcing people to accept a paradisal reality that they might not want is wrong, no matter your intentions.
Go live in a 3rd world country, its the kinda society you are looking for. All of human progress is based around reducing suffering.
So what I'm getting from this thread is I benefit from having been born in a first world country where I can strive to surpass my pain, and that ultimately I should let Maruki win if I cared about people enough less fortunate than me, right?
Anyone?
There is a level of pain that human will can not surpass due to the physical burden of the universe pushing back. Its a saturation point where suffering can not be overcome to grow from. To put in gaymer terms, its like a level 1 character fighting a level 5 foe. Its hard and difficult to overcome, but you get much xp from doing so. But as a level 1, you will never beat a max level enemy, the numbers are stacked against you in amounts you can not overcome. You in a first world country are a level 1 in a mostly balanced zone, you have hard and easy areas. A 3rd worlder is a level 1 thrown into an end game zone.
Right and if I cared enough about those people I'd let maruki win right?
On an individual basis, yes you would. Most people dont care or dont acknowledge how their own wants can produce the suffering of others so that wouldn't make you unique. Its like if there was a cure for cancer, but you won't release it because now you wouldn't get paid to treat cancer. Or you could give money to a 3rd world charity, but you could also keep it and buy yourself ice cream. Most people to have ever existed are dicks in that regard. So if a god being appeared and said they would halt the suffering of billions, but your life would be effected in some way, yea you would kinda be a dick to put your desires as an individual before so many others suffering far more.
So why do the phantom thieves oppose him?
Anyone?
the plot demanded it
its a stupid jrpg, villains are almost always in the right but because "I'm the hero" they have to lose.
Because they are hormonal teens and think adult = bad most of the time. If they are fighting because they don't think he can handle that power, thats maybe a legit concern. If they are literally fighting for "ALL SUFFERING ALWAYS = GOOD" then they are just coming off as annoying teens who think they have the world figured out and dont take the time to consider the deeper concerns outside their limited world view of what the power to end suffering could mean for billions of others who would benefit from it. If anything they should express their concerns and try to help him with his goals of elevating the human condition. Atleast then if he flips out and says "NO ONLY ME KNOW WHATS BEST" or cosmic horror behind his power reveals its only doing it through malicious intent, then they would have a more justified reason to stop him.
In other words, japs didn't write the best they could have for their edgy teen focused jarpig.
>>he doesn't realize that he's kicking down the ladder of human progress doing this, and dooming the world to a placid decay
You have to be baiting or straight moron. Human progress hasn't got us just more problems. We are about to witness a massive planetwide extinction thanks to this so called progress.
You can't be strong if you don't fail or suffer
Without pain humanity wouldn't have evolved
Would humanity need to evolve without pain?
No. We would just be content living in caves beating rocks together.
That sounds nice.
The game is ultimate trying to paint the Phantom Thieves in a glowing light. Maruki has to be portrayed as flawed, prescribing rudimentary and ineffective remedies, while the Phantom Thieves are fighting for the glory of humanity's potential.
I've no doubt that if the game was truly interested in giving you an ambiguous choice, Maruki's rationale would've been further fleshed out, with him explaining how the information he gets through tapping on the collective unconscious allows him to make reasonable decisions that would ultimately benefit everyone, but Maruki being completely competent isn't what the game wants to say.
What's wrong with that if everyone is content?
Why don't we ask this young lady?
Who cares? She should be free to fight her own battles. She is able to overcome her struggles through her own strength, with no persona abilities, because that's the power of humanity.
>She is able to overcome her struggles
Her hymen will never be restored.
You can torture and execute a rapist, but you can never unrape the victim.
It's time to stop pretending rape is such a huge crime. Women fantasize about it all the time and have constant sexual relations with strangers they just met for thrills.
Fantasy does not equal reality. That's why it's a fantasy.
It's like all the anons into reverse rape. They haven't considered that by nature, it wouldn't be rape unless it was a girl they didn't want.
>Oh no! she is stroking my dick! I feel so humiliated!!!
Come on.
Such as making people go into a state where they only feel pleasure in a world without pain?
Sure but what does that have to do with anon saying we need to stop treating rape so seriously.
I mean I agree because I would love to be a rapist.
But that doesn't disprove my point.
You can kill a rapist, but he will still be remembered by the victim 60 years into the future. He basically achieved the closest thing to immortality with the least amount of effort. Specially if he impregnated her.
>immortality through rape
based living forever as a memory enjoyer
>man with psychotic lack of empathy tries to tell others what is right and wrong
>Have penis inside vegana
>But said penis is attached to an undesirable man
NOOOOO LITERALLY HITLER
What about guro chads
Actually the hymen regrows if you manage not to frick for like 7 years. Women aren't capable of doing this, however
source?
Don't care, gonna make some lockpicks
No, go to bed homosexual.
He's a nihilist chud who has felt pain once and gave up
Involuntary pain, yeah
But voluntarily pain is nice for some people. I like it when my gf whips and bites me
Yes
>Trump out of nowhere
Unraping someone without their consent to undo their character development is still rape.
Maybe billionaires shouldn't exist at all.
>develop appendicitis
>don't realize something is wrong and go to the doctor because I don't feel pain
>die
MOAR PAIN
pain is just concentrated pleasure
Then why do you complain when I want to beat you up you little brat?
>take lsd
>no more pain
>realize that all your problems are not really problems or easy to overcome
>realize that you spent years of your life troubling about pointless things
>realize that your psychologist actually scam you
Sure, but only if you understand that minor, short term pain is necessary to avoid major, long term pain.
No, pain is a defense mechanism.
yes
No. Suffering is necessary, every adult should recognize that.
There's a reason the world's largest religions are basically extended manuals on why suffering exists and how to cope with it. They reach different answers, but the principles are pretty similar.
Yes and no. Pain and suffering make you stronger. There are instances of excess pain and suffering unfortunately. But that doesn't really matter, what matters is if someone came out tomorrow with a machine that puts you to sleep and gives you endless fantasies until death, people would line up to use it.
>if someone came out tomorrow with a machine that puts you to sleep and gives you endless fantasies until death, people would line up to use it.
God, I wish that would be real.
our entire world is already the product of one of those machines. it's just not you hooked up to the machine. it's some billionaire playboy or privileged world leader, and you're just a shitty npc created to populate his dream.
How dare you unrape my friend.
Being an SMTchad and playing this game was great.
I had already picked this dude's envisioned world back in SMT3, and then Maruki came along which is basically this guy (forgot his name, its been 20+ years) ideology but either better or a sidegrade.
SMTchads don't play Persona.
I play it tho.
You're a phony.
But we do? I hate how some of you homosexual turned megaten into some sort console war homosexualry.
Maruki's deal is way worse than Musubi
Instead of being in charge of your own bubble reality, you're stuck in the bubble reality of Some Guy
Musubi that's muh homie's name.
Yes, but Musubi never explained if the world he creates involves other people or not. Being stuck in a world full of people you create (aka: mannequins) isn't as good as being stuck in a world that makes you happy.
That is his flaw, which is why Maruki is either better, or a sidegrade.
Maruki effectively creates people, lobotomises people, and discards people at a whim
The only merit to such a system is that you're unlikely to be aware of how much of a mannequin you are
isamu's idea was basically everyone just lived alone in their own reality (never fully explained if its your own pocket dimension or you just alone as a normal person) which is sort of chill.
Musubi is way better than Maruki's world.
Isamu's fricking shit and he should let everyone just do their own thing while he locks himself up in his own private bunker.
I bet he dresses so fashionably because he failed at being a socialite.
>Gets imprisoned.
>Manages to get out through sheer luck.
>Immediately imprisoned again.
>Gets so pissed he manages to squeeze out.
>Sacrifices best boy to summon his NEET god.
mmmhm musubi world
nocturne is so good
You don't know what pleasure is without pain. Context is needed. He should have kept to improving the lives of those who needed it instead of outright changing everyone's lives and taking away freedom of choice.
What he is doing is essentially turning every single videogame into easymode. You will never, ever have a challenge again because it's too "stressful" on you.
>You don't know what pleasure is without pain.
I'm pretty sure donald drumpft has been grabbing people by the pussy for years without any pain. Such a stupid thing to say that for you to enjoy the taste of food, first you need to feel hunger. No, you don't Black person.
You wouldn't know what food tastes like because without hunger you wouldn't need to eat. You wouldn't have developed a mouth.
Without pain you wouldn't have developed a sense of self-preservation. You would sit there and rot because why would you do anything? You have no motivation to do it. You would not have evolved a will.
>You wouldn't know what food tastes like because without hunger you wouldn't need to eat
Again with the moronic statement.
Fat people eat without the need for hunger, they eat because food tastes good.
You literally refuse to imagine a scenario where pain has helped you survive, flourish and motivate you. You cannot even comprehend how important pain is to evolution and survival. For emotional development, pride and happiness. Pain is unable to be separated from pleasure. You should lessen pain when you can, not altogether remove it. You will remove pleasure at this rate.
I'm not sure how to make you understand. You don't seem to be equipped to comprehend this.
Ironic, considering you cannot comprehend how food tastes good regardless if you're hungry or not.
I don't think you're a human being at all.
Says the man with no pride, humility or self-awareness.
Anon people are not born fat. The hypothetical fat person indulging in food is doing so in response to something. Maybe he was bullied, maybe he hates his life, etc. He's doing what he's doing in response to pain; he cannot comprehend the pleasure of engorging himself with food without having been pushed there.
>You literally refuse to imagine a scenario where pain has helped you survive, flourish and motivate you. You cannot even comprehend how important pain is to evolution and survival. For emotional development, pride and happiness. Pain is unable to be separated from pleasure. You should lessen pain when you can, not altogether remove it. You will remove pleasure at this rate
Stealing this for my villain I'm writing.
Go for it, the guy I'm writing in my book is unrelated to that.
Hope your story comes out well!
>writing in my book
HAHAHAHAHAAH
Easily the most based thing I've read on the internet in a long time. Well done, anon.
You are fricking moronic. A lack of suffering does not remove creativity or intrigue. Do you draw because someone beat you? Do you read because your back hurts?
Also, I don't give a shit about evolution. We are talking about an alien that literally revives living beings. He can mutate humans at will and give you mouth, legs, fix broken bones.
Evolution is for morons.
Don't need any of that shit.
I would rather have a choice on the matter instead of being forced to wagecuck just to survive.
Dumb comparison because "real life" (the world in the game) is not a game. Thats like the mentality of someone in our world treating life as a game.
Not him but I saw a zoomer get shot and he literally said "I'm dying" before he died. It was comedy gold. (he was a thief trying to rob a gun store)
I want a NEET god.
Uh no? People NEED to get raped that's how they grow sweetie. Imagine a world without rape how awful that would be.
Normalgays are too intellectually cowardly to follow this 'Suffering builds character' to its logical conclusion. They say that pain is actually good and helps people live, yet I don't see them purposefully getting in car crashes or walking on broken glass to strengthen their lives. Nietzsche was a gay who was pathetically coping.
the existence of pain is good BECAUSE the experience of pain is bad, you absolute brainlet.
Completely incongruent pabulum. Nobody lives their lives like this, nobody except masochists seek out pain for its own sake. Cope.
that's the entire point you absolute braindead moron. people avoid pain, and danger and harm and sickness and all other things that would end their existence, all because pain exists. without pain (and the resultant fear) you simply die to one of countless random things you instinctively avoid due to the existence of pain, and as it turns out extinct species don't evolve or progress.
That isn't news to anyone you stupid bastard. Everyone knows this. You're not fricking deep. You're too fricking moronic to acknowledge that the dichotomy of pain being bad but it being a requirement for life doesn't mean it is "good", it means that life is a fundamentally flawed structure. Life is not perfectly designed, it just happened via various reactions. And this is the base of reality.
You are an actual midwit. How fricking dare you respond to my post.
>pabulum
>dichotomy
>thinking using big words and being angsty on the internet justify your ten thousands wasted on some philosophy class
I don't know man on top of being wrong you're also cringe and a loser. Today I had a bad day but at least I'm not you thank god for that.
> t. Did not even remotely understand Nietzsche
There is nothing to understand, the guys was a pseud.
why didn't he just make more resources?
Because capitalist would hoard it anyways.
Rape builds character
pain exists to warn us to avoid things that harm or kill us. it exists specifically to be avoided and is absolutely necessary for the advancement and continuation of complex organisms.
Watch out, there's a lizard brained redneck in the thread who's aggressively saying "nu-uh" repeatedly. You'll never win.
but this guy has magical powers that allow him to remove all pain and still have a functional world
>and still have a functional world
That remains to be seen, and the evidence we have suggests people eventually stop getting out of bed like Joker.
Pain is obsolete in maruki's world
>pain exists to warn us to avoid things that harm or kill us
You think Maruki won't make you feel pain if you touch fire or acid?
Are you moronic? did you play the game or just came here to be stupid?
>You think Maruki won't make you feel pain if you touch fire or acid?
he literally debates whether or not to remove the existence of pain at all in the OP image you illiterate brown third worlder.
so you didn't play the game, he is not talking about fire nor acid in the OP. You would know this if you actually played videogames instead of basing your entire knowledge of a 130+ hours game in a singular fricking image.
you're the only moron talking about "fire and acid" here moron
Excuse me, is this not your post?
This post LITERALLY has fire and acid in its content and its argument is based on that.
Do you really think we can't scroll up?
>This post LITERALLY has fire and acid in its content
it's quoting your post, in which you mention fire and acid. i never mentioned fire or acid and neither does the OP to which I referred.
And yet, in this very post I'm replying to, we are talking about fire and acid, yes...we(you and me). You have now been proven wrong.
you are literally autistic and deserve to be killed slowly via fire and acid.
The direct quote where fire and acid was brought up in the original post was:
>You think Maruki won't make you feel pain if you touch fire or acid?
Which was in response to;
>pain exists to warn us to avoid things that harm or kill us
To which anon replied to the first guy with:
>he literally debates whether or not to remove the existence of pain at all in the OP image you illiterate brown third worlder.
The question proposed in the first quote is a rhetorical question on if Maruki would let you feel pain from touching fire or acid, physical pain. However, if you actually played the game you would know the that’s not true and he wants to avoid psychological pain, so the answer is no. If you were to go full moron in Maruki’s reality and stick your hand in a fire it would still hurt. The response to the quoted question of Maruki debating whether to remove the existence of all pain is showing how that anon has not played the game and is taking the image posted at face value.
Autism.
I ain't reading all that, I'm happy for you tho, or sorry that happened.
And if you were to actually play the game you would know that the conversation is about phycological pain. morons here inflate that to being all types of pain.
>muh evolution
>under a world ruled by a being that revives dead parents, restores hymens, erases memories, and heals uncurable and unfixable bone structure wounds
Dumbest take on the thread.
and his world is stagnant and completely devoid of soul or meaning or progression as a result.
>and his world is stagnant
his world literally lasted 3 weeks. you have to be an idiot to consider that timeframe enough for a study on whether or not humanity is stagnating or not. You're grasping at straws. Are you afraid of losing an internet argument?
>his world literally lasted 3 weeks
It wasn't complete yet dipshit, there were plenty of people affected and those that were, were questioning it. Some outright rejected it like the hobo and many were borderline apathetic and bored.
Play the fricking game.
>It wasn't complete yet
And yet you consider it enough to claim if a world is stagnating or not? Fascinating...
I don't think you realize how low IQ your post is. If everyone thought like you, doctors couldn't be able to exist on this world.
doctors only exist because pain exists. they wouldn't exist in maruki's world. he himself never would have existed in a world that never had pain to create "hardships" in the first place
he's peak leftist; female-brained, emotional, chaos, entropy, hedonism. the antithesis to order, stability, and true progress through overcoming adversity.
>doctors only exist because pain exists. they wouldn't exist in maruki's world
We are not talking about your videogames here. Real life anon. If you throw a verdict of a study within 3 weeks then doctors would have never become a thing, nor would anything in the medical field.
if your study explodes in your face and fails in less than three weeks in the real world, it is abandoned and your hypothesis is deemed a failure. you don't just get to keep testing it until you get the desired result. and none of that has anything to do with the existence of doctors or the medical field or anything else anyway, none of which would exist--or would cease to exist if it already did-- in a world now coddled by a god providing all solutions and removing the demand for anything.
>if your study explodes in your face and fails in less than three weeks in the real world, it is abandoned
see:
>I don't think you realize how low IQ your post is.
The first airplane, just as you said, crashed and burned within 3 weeks. But since actual intelligent people aren't as low IQ as you are, they keep trying and developing.
the colossal irony of you using the development of airplanes to justify your fantasy of continuing failed experimentation while claiming anyone else is too low IQ to even realize how stupid they are.
we already knew flight was possible because birds exist. limited human flight and gliding already existed before the airplane was invented. humans conceptualized flight for hundreds of years before airplanes were invented. the first wright brothers flights were considered proof of success and led to renewed passion in further experimentation and perfection.
and none of that has anything to do with the fact that pain is one of the key factors that has led all complex life to where it is today, and without it we would not exist because we would have no self-preservation instinct.
>we already knew flight was possible because birds exist
Okay, we already knew a perfect world exists because dreams exist.
I guess I will have to wait 20 more minutes for your next subzero IQ take.
The hobo eventually gets actualized, his dialogue changes to reflect it in the last week or so.
>his world literally lasted 3 weeks
so his philosophy was a big fat failure then.
Progression is only necessary because of nature's rules
I'll go further and say that at the end of ther day progression is just a tool to attain happiness and convenience
Maruki's world gives you happiness directly
no need for pregression
>no need for pregression
If that was the case then japanese Junpei wouldn't have become a sports star you moron.
You fail to understand that people will naturally progress and better themselves because that's human nature. Pain is irrelevant to that. Japanese Junpei didn't just slack off under maruki's world, he focused on his career to achieve greatness.
>You fail to understand that people will naturally progress and better themselves because that's human natur
You're fricking moronic
how many people do you see get worse IRL throughout their lives? The bunch that actually improve are a minority
And what about those who can't improve? Those who get cancer? Those who are born in a 3rd world country were they're sold to human traffickers? Are you telling them to improve too moron?
He's telling them tough shit you lost the lottery.
>how many people do you see get worse IRL throughout their lives?
All of them. Getting old sucks.
>And what about those who can't improve? Those who get cancer? Those who are born in a 3rd world country were they're sold to human traffickers? Are you telling them to improve too moron?
What do you mean by this? Yes they should improve. Why the frick should 3rd worlders not try to become 1st worlders? What a stupid post holy shit.
You"re genuinly moronic
>What do you mean by this? Yes they should improve. Why the frick should 3rd worlders not try to become 1st worlders?
You misunderstand. Follow your logic to its end. You're saying pain is good for people without recourse or hope of improvement because other people are fortunate enough to be born into a situation where they have recourse from pain.
This.
Thank you for samegayging. I forgot to reply to your post.
I don't get it. I never said pain is good.
So we're in agreement maruki is right. Good. Still some sane people left.
Yeah, I was arguing for maruki ;_; why did you attack me?
Soz anon
>All these people putting complete faith in Maruki despite the game making repeated arguments toward how imperfect a single man can be.
No shit everything would be perfect if the world was ruled by a perfect man who had the perfect solution to everything and always changed the world perfectly to adapt to everyone's constantly changing and evolving definitions of what pain and pleasure is, but the world isn't perfect you perfect morons.
So in that case, an avatar of the collective masses, who represents all of humanity, would be a being you can put your faith in.
Frick Law guys, am i right?
CHAOS ALL THE WAY.
In the greater context of 'humanity' and the 'real world', I don't see why Maruki would be wrong to do as he pleases.
I can find video feed right now of gay russian rape and dead soldiers across miles of fields.
Not to mention everything about Mexico, always.
If Maruki had seen half of the stuff I have seen and then made his decision to do that, the fact a bunch of middle class japanese students try telling him 'no dude suffering is good' only jades me further.
Between a world with what we have, and an ideal easy-mode world, I wouldn't be fighting Maruki to preserve this.
Would any of you?
As long as it's opt-in I don't give a frick.
That's why he should have stopped the bad shit only instead of grouping everyone together and removing free will entirely.
Why would he do that? he ain't god. Learn about equivalent exchange and greater good.
>he ain't god.
You stupid frick.
literally mortal, homosexualron
Maruki's problem is essentially Theodicy, the philosophy asking "why does evil exist?" or "why did a perfect God create an imperfect world?"
I think the best answer, though it definitely doesn't satisfy everyone, is to basically deny that "evil" exists.
Good can come from the worst atrocities you can imagine, and whatever you imagine as "perfect" can always be better. As much suffering as there is in the world, there is more good, and that good is reason enough for it all to exist.
>Between a world with what we have, and an ideal easy-mode world, I wouldn't be fighting Maruki to preserve this.
>Would any of you?
God no. We live in a world where a man wins an award for taking a picture of a dying infant, where shrines are made out of the bones of people killed in war crimes, where people are taught to frick each other over for money and everyone hates everyone.
Hell, I'd even take a Meteor at this point.
>touch something hot
>dont feel pain
>hand is now burnt and crispy, cant use it anymore
not what he meant, not his problem your language is garbage and can't differentiate from mental suffering and physical suffering. learn japanese.
Sure you can. Mental pain can be torment or annoyance. Now a world where nothing is annoying would actually be appealing. I think the game is supposed to mean trauma since so many people bring up the shiho rape
Play the game and then you wouldn't have to _think_ what the game meant based on what morons on Ganker say.
There are so many people in these threads that have never played Persona 5 and its so easy to tell based on their misconceptions of Maruki's world.
>Pleasure cube bad
>Why?
>Uh muh freedumbs muhfugga
americans ruin fricking everything, even in fantasy worlds
>Maruki's persona is literally Azathoth, the "blind idiot god".
>If Azathoth awakens, the world ends.
Dunno how much more blatant it can get than this, except for his persona evolution being Adam Kadmon, the primordial man who tasted the fruit of knowledge. Maruki tasted adversity and evolved from it, while he still wants to remove adversity altogether. What a hypocrite.
I don't think you know what hypocrisy means, nor do I think you understand the azathoth analogy
>no
Holy shit you're so right, I concede. I am a fricking idiot, your astute observation OBLITERATED my own.
Thank god you finally opened your eyes. I was afraid we would have to go on a 300 posts charade while you keep posting tranime images.
>Work my ass off at low end jobs so my child can go to school and become a lawyer or something and have a comfy life
>"NOOOOO YOU HAVE TO LET HIM SUFFER WAGEKEKING"
Why are Maruki threads full of the most brainlet takes imaginable when the game shows you through the people on the streets the flaws with Maruki's reality where it is "Path of least resistance".
I think they're shitposting.
>comes into a jrpg thread.
>Gets upset when he sees a character from the game posted.
I don't think anyone will ever agree with you if you keep going on like that.
Just because I watch anime, play anime games, love japan, hate the west, buy figurines and japanese posters, doesn't mean I should just be okay with homosexuals saving tranime images on their computer. Tranime posting isn't part of the package I signed up for. Are you watching Dr. Stone next week? I know I am.
Does the R in persona stand for Rape
if you are rich and well off in life you will disagree with Maruki
if you are in the gutters you will agree with Maruki
pain is only fun when you are able to choose when to experience it
Without pain you literally have no reference on what happiness is. Even his goal and desire of an utopia is driven by his knowledge of pain. If he didn't know it, he would be a soulless robot who wouldn't care his wife died or wouldn't even comprehend the possibility of losing her and appreciating her more because of that.
...his wife isn't even dead
and you don't need pain for your brain to receive a chemical reaction thats literally based on your hormones
like, everything in your post is wrong, literally eveything, it doesn't even seem like you played the game, you just watched a summary of it
>All these anti-spiral gays ITT
Shameful. You'll never create the heavens.
>spiral gays inevitably rekt by universal big tear
Gg, losers
How would Door-Kun or Yu deal with Maruki?
Yu is a loser and worst Persona game to date.
Under Maruki's world, the world won't feel despair, and so it would fend off that evil thing Door-kun is shielding the world from. Thus, Door-kun would finally stop being a door if Maruki gets his way.
If (You) can side with Adachi, there's probably a route where Yu can side with Maruki or like other anons here suggest, adjust the "scale" of his change.
moron.
But he is right. The Apathy Syndrome wouldn't exist in Maruki's world.
You can side with Maruki as Joker too.
Door-kun is still a door but hypothetically if Maruki could actualize all of humanity to stop yearning for death he could actually live again.
Yu would fight Maruki simply because Maruki’s reality is running away from the truth and creating something that’s easy to believe is the truth.
Maruki is literally creating a new truth, his world is not an illusion.
Door-kun would put Maruki into Doorality where he's hit by Revolving Door-kuns forever
just another little layer to the great seal
>NO YOU NEED PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!
When did Ganker become a reddit infested atheist hellhole? There's no pain in Heaven, only joy.
God sure as shit thought we and his son needed pain to absolve ourselves of our sins in the first place to enter Heaven numbnuts.
yeah, imagine if god said "no more sins", now we don't need pain
Only because Eve was a dumb c**t and now we are all suffering for it.
Depends if you are using Christian scriptures or Gnosticism thoughts.
So you would agree Maruki world heretic as he is putting himself in the place of God.
Maruki doesnt remove religion from his world tho
You DO know that through pain, you can achieve the kingdom of heaven, right? The whole "carry your cross" thing.
In fact, Martyrs are a thing precisely because, despite the pain and usually horrible deaths that they went through, they remained faithful and strong.
That's a big leap you're making from "these extraordinary people should be given respect for the suffering they endured" to "it is a moral benefit to inflict it on everyone"
ying and yang motherfricker. the opposite has to exist for something to have meaning.
>bro you need suffering to understand pleasure
>says the incel, on the internet, in an imageboard, about fricking videogames
I sure remember suffering when I played Pacman in 1985 you motherfricking morons Its not 2 sides of the same coin, you can live with just one.
>NOOO YOU DON'T GET IT, THE FEAR OF DEATH IS WHAT MAKES LIVING LE GOOD
>how do I know ? well...I heard it somewhere and it sounded smart lol
Remove pain. Remove death. Remove suffering. We will find fun and purpose in other ways. Stop coping you fricking morons.
>People arguing in real world terms
>When within context of the Personaverse with the great game being played on the metaphysical level Maruki is going to frick shit up.
We play videogames for escapism. If a videogame shows a perfect world, it is logical people would want that world in real life.
This is the foundation of communism.
There's zero good or logical reason to disagree with Maruki's vision.
No pain, no gain
Objectively 100% correct
Hold up is that a fricking Homunculus reference?
The yakuza robot guy?? if so, that's really fricking cool
There is literally a disease where people feel no pain and it really isn't as glamorous as you think. If you could have a healing factor akin to wolverine then yea no pain would make more sense.
another moron that didn't play the game, maruki doesn't give frick about removing your biological nerves.
I can't tell if these threads are a bunch of people flexing their larp muscle if they're really, really depressed.
Maruki was well intentioned, but his world was literally falling apart at the seams after a month. And assuming he couldn't stop his aging process, humanity would go extinct within like a month of him dying
Maruki and Isidora should shut up and have baby making sex
Even regardless of everything else, forcing Akechi into his reality when he continually rejects it is so twisted. It also feels like such a betrayal on Joker's part, doesn't feel like something he'd ever do even if he agreed with Maruki.
I've been really curious about this. Could Satanael beat Adam Kadmon?
I think some pain is necessary as a signal that something's wrong
I think chronic and pointless pain is proof nature is the cruelest force
No, that's moronic. Besides emotional pain, there's physical pain as well. It is a way for our brains to express (potential) danger or injury. Without pain we'd all be some kind of Lepers
good thing he is talking about the former, not the latter. He is a psychiatrist you inbred, he is only speaking for his field of work.
I have not played the game so I don't know what he is. Even then, you're a moron if you think psychiatrists don't deal with chronic physical pain patients
so you be saying its a good thing there are people out there with chronic physical pain? think about what you type, even if we add the bullshit you just said to the statement in the OP, it changes nothing about what I said.
No it isn't. My point is that pain has many dimensions and all of them are useful in their own way. A psychiatrist should know that
Your point is that chronic physical pain is a good thing then? Say it. I want to hear you type that out with a straight face.
Didn't I just say it isn't? You're thinking too one dimensional. Psychologist deal with all kind of pains, not just chronic pains.
he isnt a psychologist
so you be saying chronic pain is bad or good? be honest
Not that anon you're replying to, but you can always learn from a cripple for treatments for other cripples in the future. And usually cripples or other sick people value their health more than other healthy people. That is a gain on their experience and mental level, whether you like it or not.
I'm not asking you that. Answer the question.
Is chronic physical pain good or not? Would you want to have chronic physical pain? Elaborate on your answers to THESE questions, don't answer me made up questions that were never typed out.
lmao this homie is actually moronic
cope or whatever you kids say these days.
Follow the instructions, its not that hard.
So why didn't Maruki just delete chronic/useless pain?
>Is chronic physical pain good or not?
No, it's not "good."
>Would you want to have chronic physical pain?
No, I wouldn't
What are you deriving from these two points?
Is a life in chronic pain not worth living?
Does it not have value?
What I'm "deriving" (if we can call it that) is that you're wishing for others to have chronic physical pain when you yourself don't want to have it. The rest of your questions are hyperbolic garbage so I won't entertain them.
Why did you add quotation marks to "good" regarding chronic physical pain? There is no middle ground here. Either something is neutral (until turned malignant) or beneficial. Which one is it?
Why wouldn't you like to have chronic physical pain?
>you're wishing for others to have chronic physical pain
No, I'm not.
Chronic pain and other ailments exist, and people have to live with them. If there was a way to alleviate their pain with no string attached, I would certainly want them to have access to it.
But I would not force it on them. Their pain is part of who they are.
>Why did you add quotation marks to "good" regarding chronic physical pain?
Because "good" is a moral or value judgement, not an objective quality.
I don't think chronic pain is "good" and wouldn't want to experience it, because it would cause me suffering and reduce my quality of life.
But that criteria can be applied to many qualities. Birth defects, Down Syndrome, deafness, blindness, one's height or skin color. All of these are qualities a person can have that can cause them suffering in their life.
Are these qualities not "good?" Do people not live good lives, despite having these qualities? Aren't these qualities part of who they are?
>Chronic pain and other ailments exist,
Stop right there. Hold that thought. The rest of your sentence was garbage, but this part is has merit.
>Because "good" is a moral or value judgement, not an objective quality.
No, it is not. Is eating rotten meat good? Is chewing a rock good? Is cutting off your dick good? Is holding your bladder good? Is never turning off your stove good?
If you're a moralgay, you already lost this battle. Morality is what keeps humans from evolving and advancing in real life. Moralgays are also the dumbest motherfrickers on the planet. So I hope to GOD you just mispoke back then because I can give you another 15 examples of things that are objectively A or B.
>I don't think chronic pain is "good" and wouldn't want to experience it, because it would cause me suffering and reduce my quality of life.
And you wouldn't want others to experience it either, right? That's what you said.
>But that criteria can be applied to many qualities. Birth defects, Down Syndrome, deafness, blindness
Hold it. Yes, that's the point. We are focusing on what you said (chronic pain) but we are actually speaking about all of those.
>Are these qualities not "good?" Do people not live good lives, despite having these qualities? Aren't these qualities part of who they are?
Irrelevant.
Now, let's summarize.
Chronic pain is not good.
You won't want chronic pain.
You don't wish chronic pain on others.
Do you wish humans could find a cure to chronic pain?
I don't know why you wasted your time typing out all that bullshit that amounts to "nuh uh" just to cap it off by asking me a question I already answered in the same post.
No, you didn't. Answer the question.
I also didn't want to seem like I skipped all your post, I read you very carefully ;_;
>Do you wish humans could find a cure to chronic pain?
>If there was a way to alleviate their pain with no string attached, I would certainly want them to have access to it.
>But I would not force it on them. Their pain is part of who they are.
Your position is "bad things are bad, and bad things must be stamped out"
My position is "people live with the good and the bad, it's not my place to decide what is bad for other people, just as I wouldn't have anyone decide what is bad for me"
Blindness and deafness are certainly qualities that cause people substantial suffering in their life. And yet they live with it, gaining from it unique perspectives and experiences, goods that they would not and could not obtain otherwise. People make their disability part of their identity, forming communities and bonding with others over it. Some forms of blindness and deafness are curable, but some of these people would and do outright refuse to be treated for their "suffering."
Should they forced to be "cured," because their disability is "bad?"
Inflicting blindness or deafness upon an innocent child would certainly be a terrible act of harm. But if they would be naturally born with the condition (or even a propensity toward it) and it was discovered in the womb, should the parent be allowed to abort them to "prevent their suffering" by denying them life?
Maybe these conditions shouldn't exist at all. Rather than a "cure," find a way to magically do away with them altogether, as if they had never existed. Is that the right thing to do, to get rid of this "bad?"
But who are you to make that judgement? You were just told how people whose lives have been defined by their conditions have lived good lives, finding community and love because of the "bad" inflicted on them.
You would deny them that, because they way they lived wasn't as "good" as you imagined it could be? You might as well be killing them.
You shifted focus again. Not touching 90% of your post since its irrelevant to the topic.
Are you also anti-vaxx and anti-pills? What do you do when you fall ill? Do you wish for others to not take medication?
I'm asking you these questions because you said you only want chronic pain removed if there are no strings attached. This means
- No vaccines
- No diets
- No pills
- No doctors
Because being part of a society 'forces' you to adhere to societal norms, aka: attachments. You're expected to pay for your medication, to not take pills on an empty stomach, to respect your doctors recipe (take pill ONLY at night), you get the gist.
That's what I got from your post, a very wordy way to say "I actually don't want humans t o find the cure for chronic pain"
honestly dont argue further anon
he is probably trolling or just delusional to think that every person that has a sickness is unhappy with their lives and should just kill themselves to alleviate the pain that comes with the suffering
And also just naive to classify everything as "good" or "bad"
Watch as he says some form of "I didn't read your post and will just focus on one particular point"
Well I gave you a second chance but you're obviously not interested in having a serious discussion. Sorry, I'm not interested in talking in circles.
Yeah I'm wasting my breath. I just want people stop being naive, find some peace in acceptance and maybe read a fricking book.
>Well I gave you a second chance but you're obviously not interested in having a serious discussion.
I'm tho. You on the other hand are bent on going on a tangent.
I don't give a FRICK about what an individual person might feel or want. We are talking about the nature value of an illness here. Not about human spirit, not about human progress, not about human maturity. Not about humans at all.
We are focusing entirely on what is biologically acceptable for a living organism, human or not (dogs for example, also suffer from chronic pain).
>Sorry, I'm not interested in talking in circles.
The conversation moves forward when you actually follow it.
I'm going to have to guess you misspoke, once again (as you did when you claimed nothing can be absolutely good. Since you didn't consider modern medicine is literally filled with attachments.
>and maybe read a fricking book.
I suggest you pick one about biology, pick up one focusing on cells. I warn you tho, they ain't gonna talk about the morality of a malignant cell lol
I'm not that anon but can you read my post again?
I said that you can learn from it. Whether it is "good" or not depends on the person. Would I like to feel pain, or have a stump on my leg? Frick no.
But there's plenty of other people that has suffered through it and others that try to learn from it. How do you think medicine is developed even? Do you think that even the common cold was easily curable in olden times? From suffering man is able to learn and evolve from it, me and yours won't want to go through it but it gives a lesson in which people can learn from.
>inb4 so you want to have chronic physical pain?
In which there's no point in entertaining you anymore.
>I'm not that anon but can you read my post again?
No, Your post was irrelevant to topic at hand, a huge deviation from the argument. But maybe I will re-touch your "take" later on. I understand you're trying to make a point but its a worthless one.
Didnt play the game but how does this guy's world work exactly? Can you undo stuff or do you just not feel anything at all? Or does it make everything easy mode like you just need to give a bit of effort to do anything?
Well either way any of these are just cope and running from the truth. Suffering, despair and hope is what makes life worth living and if everyone's the same and joyful everyday then nobody would care about anyone or anything.
If a mother doesn't need to go through 9 months of suffering and birthing a baby is simply a gacha roll away, you wouldn't exist since she wants the perfect one.
If everything is cheap or free even, what would be the point of society and economy? People will just do nothing and rot away in their homes with endless joy since they not know what else to do or to seek for in their lives.
If everyone is nigh immortal and can do or make anything, what would be the point of living? Your dreams and goal won't even exist since you know not what to strive for since everything is readily available for you. The only thing to look forward to is death since you can't do it multiple times.
>Didnt play the game
stopped reading there
play the game
Thats such a low iq take. When mankind inevitably nullifies all maladies and can essentially live forever, do you expect the species to just willing extinct itself because they no longer have a "reason to suffer"? As for "hope", it goes both way. There is a tipping point where suffering smuthers all sense of hope in a being.
Hell no. As much as it sucks, pain is what makes humans human. He wants to turn us into sponges.
He is right but assigning that task to a visibly evil Lovecraftian tentacle monster will probably lead to some complications in the long term
Would Maruki's world be a point in favour of Philemon's or Nyarlathotep's ideals?
Nyarly's undoubtedly. Philemon, despite his inaction outside of setting up the Velvet Room, desires for humanity to prosper. Nyarlathotep only wants ruin and chaos, and despite the Phantom Thieves being chaosgays, they are definitely not on Nyarlathotep's side as they're advocating for people to become more than what others are oppressing them to be.
>I fricking hate black people Maruki please set me free
>Okay I will take out the black people just for you 🙂
It's debatable
Alright Marukigays answer me this. Assume there is a guy who is in love with a girl but said girl rejects him. What would be the morally correct course of action here? Brainwashing the boy to stop being in love or brainwash the girl to accept the boy's feeling? There is no other option.
Maruki doesn't decide based on morality. He takes the least resistance path to subjective happiness of the patient.
Make a copy of the girl who's in love with the boy.
He is a psychiatrist, right? That +god powers he could help him overcome his chemical desires for that specific girl/help him realize that she is not his only chance for love or alternatively, help to figure out how he can become the type of man that the girl would like.
Ok but that's not how he went about things, he just forced the girl to date the guy. He doesn't nudge people towards the "correct" course of action, he just forces them into the path that would make him, personally, feel the least bad. What he does has nothing to do with how others feel, it's all a martyr complex and projection.
And surprise, he could probably do what you suggested without the god powers.
That actually happens. He forces the girl to stay in the relationship, and she actively expresses a sort of inexplicable confusion with the situation.
Pain is kind of subjective and different people experience it differently. Simply “getting rid of it” is too vague as to what the frick it even means.
Uh can someone explain what would be stopping Maruki from just torturing everyone forever? He's a god and he'll be utterly alone for all of eternity while everyone lives in their supposed paradise. What exactly stops him from going batshit after year 2.189.134 and making your reality Eternal Rapeworld for kicks?
Nothing except his natural lifespan that it's unclear whether he can extend or not. But that also raises the question of what happens when he dies.
nothing in the story implies he will other than asserting out of world assumptions
He was already just making up shit for people
It's about the "could." Having your ruler be accountable to you in some manner is vital to prevent them from doing insane shit like siphoning trillions to make a personal mansion and shit. Maruki would be an eternal ruler that cannot be fought against and cannot be held accountable.
There is NO HUMAN that can be trusted with this power. I would not trust myself with it, and I wouldn't trust some rando school counselor with total domain of reality for all of eternity.
>There is NO HUMAN that can be trusted with this power.
> other than asserting out of world assumptions
no human can make a force ghost come out of them and shoot things, either
>no human can make a force ghost come out of them and shoot things, either
The force ghost did not make Maruki any more wise or reasonable. He literally erased a baby because the parents were too stressed by dealing with it, and he murdered Sumire and slapped a copy of Kasumi atop her corpse because ??????
>. He literally erased a baby
morel likely he transferred the baby to a couple that WISHED they had one
now who's asserting out of world assumptions
what else would he do?
Why would he "transfer" an existing baby to a couple that wanted one instead of giving that couple their own baby?
Actually, that raises the question of what he did to pregnancy, childbirth, and early child-rearing as a whole. All incredibly sucky parts of human life that can ultimately be very rewarding. Did he excise them entirely from the human experience?
of course he didnt, frick women
because the alternative is killing a baby, and he is such a pussy he won't even kill joker
>Maruki hates seeing people suffer so much he rewrites reality entirely to remove suffering
>but he hates women even more
honestly pretty based
but also just avoiding the question because you don't actually have an answer
>their own baby?
it would be their own baby, because if that's what they wanted, that's what they would have believed. that's literally the entire point. he's altering their cognition, and because cognition dictates reality, that becomes truth.
>I agree
Nothing lasts forever. Whether Maruki would be immortal in order to maintain dominion over his new world or if it would persist to some degree after he passes, eventually SOMETHING would have to give.
The natural state of the world would begin to decay, and no matter what level of cope we're on, we couldn't ignore natural disasters, pandemics, or something as simple as a small accident that costs someone their life. Once anyone gets snapped out of the illusion, they're going to start snapping others. Even if Maruki tried to shuffle them back into place, it's the natural state of some humans to rebel against that sort of oppression. New persona users would probably rise up and eventually defeat him.
It is inevitable, and thus a moot point. Even if Maruki were to succeed for a time, eventually destiny arrives all the same.
>turns earth into literally an etheral eden/heaven like wonderplane
Stop thinking in meat space terms.
But he didn't do that. He didn't create joy, he just removed pain.
so why is the entire cast joyful until joker ruins it all?
Nothing lasts forever. Unless you're implying that he's found a way to halt the flow of time while allowing the world to continue moving, which is a pretty big fricking reach.
He didn't create heaven on earth, he's just warped everyone's minds so they're in a constant vague state of contentment with their life, even if they still have problems.
there is a literal demon god behind him, maruki is replaceable after he completes the reality warp
and what if he gets replaced by someone less benevolent?
its marukis will, you cant unmaruki the world unless another stronger god shows up from outer space
Maruki destroys Nyx so only nyarla could pose a threat
You realize he was going to rewrite reality, yes? His final solution was to make the things he made people think, actually real. The story literally tells you that cognition=reality. This power was shown the first time with the disappearance of the Phantom Thieves, and again with Marunki reviving the dead. Wakaba and Akechi are explicitly stated not to be cognitions. Eliminating natural disasters would be a simple matter.
He can't stop decay, and if things cannot decay, then how can the world sustain a population that never dies and continues to grow?
Would people not question that random point in history where we all became immortal and sanguine?
If it's possible, then in the infinite time in which his world exists, it will happen. It is inevitable.
>He can't stop decay,
He literally revived people.
>then how can the world sustain a population that never dies and continues to grow?
Its a big universe where magic is real.
So Maruki's answer to all that ails people is just
>No one gets hurt
>No one dies
>The world stays as it is at the point of Actualization, and expands continually to support infinite life
>No one ever questions these developments
At what point does this stop being him trying to """help""" us and start being him turning us into puppets that just do whatever he thinks is "right".
This sounds less appealing the more you push the range of his abilities. And it still doesn't guarantee that it can be maintained. In a infinite universe, all things that can happen, will happen. To include, someone or something causing that to come undone.
Lots of words yet nothing was said. Humanity will expand across the stars and enjoy the trip while doing so.
Yeah, once Maruki's cardboard house comes undone, I'm sure they'll have a great time exploring the final frontier.
I'm sure they will.
They won't because maruki isn't real you fricking loser.
he probably just deleted the possibility of new children being born since everything involved in it after the initial moment of creation involves suffering and/or pain
You didn't play the game. He forces a woman to date an incel against her will.
He isn't the autistic "anti-pain" savant you think he is.
Instead of making the incel a person women would want to date, he made a woman date the incel.
He took away a couple's baby because it was stressing them out instead of making early childhood not stressful on parents.
He puts band-aids on individual problems instead of fixing root causes of pain and sufffering. Oh, you're having a difficult pregnancy? Boom, you were never pregnant in the first place.
>Would people not question that random point in history where we all became immortal and sanguine?
You mean like the millions expecting the 2nd coming of Christ or a prophecy of apocalypse? Plus with literally god powers, earth becomes a limitless plane that can support infinite lives, if the act of birthing is even necessary at the point beyond a hobby. Depending how far this warping of the laws of reality was planned to go, humanity would likely be transitioning into higher beings like angels, free of their mortal physical and mental hindering.
why would humanity have any ambitions beyond staying where they are if they're already happy? Maruki even specifically removes ambitions and dreams of something greater from people.
no he doesnt
>I want to learn piano!
>that seems like it would be hard and might not work out for you, you're a fisherman now
>ok I guess
No:
maruki told him he sucked at piano, the dude liked fishing, maruki shifted his focus
also
>removes ambitions and dreams of something greater
you meant a shitty artist? lmao
at least he learnt an actual skill now
>who cares what he wanted, I made him more useful to society
Why haven't you killed yourself yet?
I'm useful to society
aka: got an actual job instead of wasting my time being a trans-artist
Follow your logic to its conclusion anon. Do you even like video games?
I played p5r, didnt I?
You didn't answer me but you're saying if you follow your logic all the way down is that because people start mediocre or often bad at artistry then they should never do it. You wouldn't have played p5.
mm yes?
I didnt play p5, I dont waste my time with mediocrity
I don't think you understand your own logic. People should only ever do anything useful?
enlighten me about my argument
that's correct
>enlighten me about my argument
Do you like video games?
only when they are good, what gives?
Good video games are made by artists, programmers, etc. They all had to start out as bad or mediocre. You say here:
Follow your logic all the way, and you're saying people who are bad at an instrument or something should just stop and do something else instead of trying to improve. Many good video games you have played would not have been made with your logic.
>I played p5r
>I didn't play p5
whuh?
Are you? What do you do that is useful to society?
I code
Code what?
whatever they ask me to code, sometimes its a simple batch file to change the filename of a file database on windows, but most of the time are functionality of intra websites
I love wagecucking
Good video games are made by programmers alone.
not like my life would change much if you remove videogames I liked, its a hobby
I make fantasy worlds and write storylines as if I was making a game, like create a world in photoshop, and then edit the biomes of the world, then start thinking what kind of creature would live here, and what is its history, thats how I get most of my entertainment, so yeah you can delete all videogames if you want
I read books too, malazan is based
doesn't seem like you're useful to society at all really
>Good video games are made by programmers alone.
you're saying Persona 5's music, writing, and artstyle have nothing to do with why it's good? Because it's a pretty bog-standard JRPG without those things.
I mean, I loved smt1, looked and sounded like shit
gameplay and good code is all that matters
not really, I was never bad at programming, just like I was never bad at math, not everyone is a loser
>not everyone is a loser
>says the programmer who does random scutwork for other people
lmao
I like my job, and people love me too
>not really, I was never bad at programming, just like I was never bad at math,
Maybe, maybe not. I don't know you, but you didn't start out as adept or good as you are now. Again, with your logic. Nothing would be made. Maybe you don't realize that, maybe you don't care, or maybe you're taking me for a ride, but your logic 1000% ends with nothing being made, yet you enjoy the end result of the hard work of individuals who undoubtedly did not start out good at what they do. You are absolutely not worth listening to, and anybody who replies to the after this is a moron.
>but you didn't start out as adept or good as you are now.
neither did the fishing guy, so I don't really see your point
>Good video games are made by programmers alone
Incorrect. There are writers involved, who also had to start out as bad before they got good. There are art directors, artists, animators, etc. Even programmers had to start bad. With your logic, nothing would get made. Not, entertainment not cooking utensils because you are saying and have said if someone is bad at something they should do something else instead of trying to improve. You don't understand what you're actually saying, you're just talking. Blowing smoke as is said.
Nobody who is useful to society feels the need to try to fight to affirm that on Ganker. You’re probably too young to post here.
I'm 35, being here for 2 years before we made samus the internet's b***h.
Right. And I’m Bobby Kotick.
Hi Bobby.
>useful to society
this is not something to be proud of
If earth literally transitions to a heaven like existence, thats it, thats humanities end goal, be it reached through science or some supernatural cosmic event. What is the point of discovery if you have already reached an end point that any sentient life would likely seek out? Humans have to move because they are forced to. If that reason no longer exists because its been eliminated, they will be able to enjoy essentially paradise.
>What is the point
precisely
You dont need a point at that point.
then why would anyone do anything, ever?
Nobody would, that's the counterpoint to the idea. Maruki's utopia is endless stagnation and lack of change but at least you feel good about it.
Whats the point of heaven then? Its a perfect state of being where the need to do anything a human mind thinks they have to do to be happy no longer exists.
>Persona 5
>"Is he right?"
It's time we settle this, Ganker. Once and for all.
https://strawpoll.com/polls/QrgebmwPbZp
https://strawpoll.com/polls/QrgebmwPbZp
He is, because in his world it CAN be avoided because he can summon a god that does his bidding.
In the real world however pain is part of life, it can't be avoided no matter what you do.
>MARUKI YOU FRICKING b***h I WAS SUPPOSED TO DIE IN DECEMBER
What was his problem?
I can't believe the third semester redeemed him so hard, it was so fricking fun to see him be a cold and deranged psycho, damn shame it only lasted for 1 palace
Yes.
Never thought Ganker would be full of consequentialists.
Is it that surprising? Utilitarianism is basically the foundation of our godless modern world, I've taken philosophy classes where it's all but taught as "morally correct."
Pain is an evolutionary mechanism that helps to survive. Without pain dangers would ignored and early humans would die out.
>living in a perfect world is bad
why
What does a "perfect" world look like?
A perfect world would be one where human beings can chase their dreams
Which isn't Maruki's world.
No, just one with no israelites
Whisper to me what you think is ideal
Pain is just a part of life.
Pain, the aversion to it and what it teaches us is probably what has kept us alive for so long
Imagine if an unhinged idiot manages to get it's hands on a nuke. The world as a whole has evaded shit like nuclear fallout just because everyone is afraid of the consequences of striking first.
Pain is not necessary to have common sense. If you are stupid, pain is necessary. Since humans as a whole were too stupid to realize the ill effects a nuclear weapon would produce, they now suffer for the state of the world created. Hopefully, humans will evolve to a point where those painful lessons are no longer necessary.
Pain is far more important to the human condition than just learning what we should and shouldn’t do. It’s bigger than concepts like common sense.
I also very much doubt the day will ever come that humanity doesn’t actually need it. It’s a part of what makes the human animal a human that we act and are designed how we are. With no pain, you’d be something else. Probably less, as people born without sensation like physical or emotional pain are regularly considered disabled.
>as people born without sensation like emotional pain are regularly considered disabled.
Psychopaths are well known for being able to blend in and outplay the system. You're wrong.
Take your meds, touch grass, I don’t give a frick. Blending or no, he or she is still sick and disabled. your stupidity isn’t gonna rub off on me.
>Psychopaths are well known for being able to blend in and outplay the system.
You need to follow that sentence up with the caveat of "For a short amount of time before they have to move"
He probably read a third of an article in a manic episode at some point and thinks he’s people enough to talk about this shit with authority.
Move where? What are you talking about?
That was funny.
Literally all of human advancement is to reduce pain. It will (outside extinction)get to a point where science and evolution and society as a whole has come to a point of enlightenment that has them looking purely from a logical big picture view, everyone on the same page of discussion and discourse, that the presence of "pain" can exist as a thing to avoid or a warning if missteps are taken, rather then needing to actually feel its effects.
If you and me are together in a room and we have a knife sitting on a table, we are likely intelligent enough that we know if one of us stabs the other with the knife it will cause pain to them and that person will likely fight back to stop being stabbed and hurt the stabber in the process. We can both agree its a good idea we dont try to stab the other person. We dont need to be stabbed before we learn this lesson because we know a knife is sharp and is designed to cut.
We may technically be animals, but so much of human progress is about becoming more then that. Relying only on pain to be a lesson teacher is being primitive at a certain point, the modern equivalent of a caveman putting his hand in a fire. Maybe in the past we needed those lessons to understand the consequences, but it would be very sad if the worst case scenario is always our teacher.
NPCs everywhere during his arc were giving up on life because they were so content, no one brings this up in the main cast which i thought was weird, budget i guess
>were giving up on life
suicide rate was literally 0%
>"hey! wanna do thing? nah, just dont feel like it"
>"werent you mvp on your team? yeah, just dont feel like doing it anymore"
etc etc
This is what life is. Pain. But you know what you do? You fight back and accomplish what you must
>You fight back and accomplish what you must
No, I just play videogames
>stupid bug not fighting back when i stepped on it
I dunno. Is a world without rape really a world that anyone wants to live in? Imagine how lacking in character humanity will be if we don't have rape?
No. The only characters who are ever treated as correct in this series are heroic characters. Villains are either just straight up bullshitting or don’t fully understand what they’re fricking with in the first place. Even P4s Adachi, who is very confident about his brand of bullshit, was basically a just a jackass playing with power he shouldn’t.
okay, we are talking about p5 tho, not that shitty game that added nothing of value to the franchise
Same shit, persona villains tend to think they’ve figured things out, yet their abuses of power or other usually sees harm come to them or their goals. They’re even typically utterly powerless to do anything about it when it happens. Whether it is bad deeds backfiring or ending up the victim if the phantom thieves. The series is about learning to live well with yourself and others, which heroes can do properly and villains never can.
Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from.
Nah, it was just shitty code.
The aim of the wise is not to secure pleasure, but to avoid pain - Aristotle
Pleasure is the first good, it’s the beginning of every choice and aversion. It is the absence of pain in the body and trouble in the soul. - Epicurus
Imagine giving a frick about what some bumfrick 2 millennia old pederast says
Single digit IQ who copes with spending 50% of his life being a wage slave by convincing himself that life is “pain and suffering”
I don't really think the point of life is just to feel good as much as possible. That'll cause you to burn out on said good things. And if you had some mechanism to just feel good all the time artificially I feel like at that point your mental state is barely even human. Impossible to relate to.
It's just such a fundamental human thing to crave some kind of stress or struggle. Even with shit like farming games, the "comfy" games people whip out to say "not everyone enjoys challenge you know!!" The progression to getting your farm in a place you like it is still a grind. It would be a severe test of my patience for one thing because I think those games are boring as sin.
Maruki is just Great Value Ichinose.
I actually found it pretty sad while playing through Strikers that I was pretty much just getting Maruki's plot again but not nearly as good
Great Value tends to be better than brand name, so you're not wrong.
I want to have a fun time with Itchy Nose.
Yes you all are some weird frick. Let me punch you in the balls everyday and tell me that shit is needed for your growth or whatever dumb shit you all say.
Should is a strong word. Why the frick should I do anything he tells me to?
?? He isn't telling you to do anything, take your meds kek
Was really annoying how his super basic explanations were seens as genius and life changing. Persona 5 is shit! Shit!
Yes. The Japanese are just masochists
I like how the PTs had literally no come back or retort for what Maruki was proposing until you are about to beat him, even then it's piss weak, like how do you justify wanting to reintroduce suffering morally
>"Painkillers are for scrubs" -/v/
>Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody wants to die.
He had to be stopped, not because he was wrong but because at the end of the day he is human and if his morality slips it might be too late to stop him.
This is the only correct direction of the conflict they should have reinforced. Otherwise it comes off as like edgy teens with limited worldview trying to stop the 2nd coming of Christ to help humanity. Its hard to justify their shit unless you are a turbo masochist or chaos worshiper.
I'd atleast give Atlus credit if they wrote an epilogue where they reflect on what they just prevented and how maybe in the heat of the moment their own egos made them prevent something that would have possibly been a major benefit to the world, being teens who didn't think out all angles and opinions and only using their own misguided feelings.
>trying to stop the 2nd coming of Christ
Except Christ walked the earth and didn't force anyone to follow him.
Maruki didn't gave people a choice.
I mean in the idea of, here is this god like being returning to save humanity. As i said, the direction of him being a flawed being should have been the main focus of concern and gives a more sympathetic reason to rally to heroes who on the surface are coming off as trying to prevent the end of human suffering.
>here is this god like being returning to save humanity
Anon, he's not trying to save humanity.
Maruki is changing the world so everyone goes through life by the path of least resistance. No fuss no muss, catch me?
That is saving humanity though from the very nature of enduring suffering. The main concept is "this entity can put an end to human suffering", the conflict is and should have more heavily leaned on "the entity with this power is a flawed mortal". That then gives a better idea as to why this could be disastrous for humanity and you could more heavily ally with why the heroes want to stop it. The path of least resistance means to achieve that end to suffering could work in showing he is still flawed in his way of approaching using this ability, lacking the mental foresight on how to properly use such a miraculous ability.
He is not a Jesus and thats the point, if Jesus came back and edgy teens start fighting him despite purely benevolent means and a mental clarity to aid humanity, then it makes it hard to agree with the actions of a hero. If flawed, pedophile Ganker anon says he is going to save humanity, then i am worried how he plans to do that and I can see why heroes would want to intervene. The point is Atlus didn't do a great job making that the obvious point of contention, if it was ever their intent to do so and instead only see it as "all suffering is good suffering". These kids especially are not in the right to decide that, their brains arnt even fully developed and they have barely any life experiences to draw from. They just come off as emotion fueled. At the very least show how both sides are pushed by their emotions and have good and bad points to their ideals they champion.
No pain, no gain, pussy.
>pain
>no gain
WTF this game is rigged
>no gain
You gained pain you fricking liar.
I visit children's hospitals and brag about this to all the kids.
I think we know this board's answer to that.
>the sheer christcuckery in this thread
Why does Maruki anger bible thumpers so?