Metal Gear loves talking about politics and its better for it though. The distinction is that it presents a story with certain characters that all have a take on political and philosophical questions. While a character might be a villain, that doesnt mean their philosophy or take is inherently incorrect and the game doesnt try to convince you otherwise.
In other words, it invites you to think on the subject and gives its takes, but doesnt tell you what to think. A story that does the latter isnt just political, its propaganda.
yeah I agree, I just think thats the distinction between "being political" and propaganda. And I think its what most people mean when they say a game or a story is "political"
yes, it's the developer telling you what you should think, like "news" companies that present information in a way that is meant to tell you how you should feel about it rather than just stating the facts
For reference that thread is talking about Epic Games and Tim Sweeny's gayshenanigans with claiming to be all about combating Valve's "monopoly" and that the EGS is all about supporting devs, etc etc. It has nothing to do with ideologies in actual games.
Why the frick am I seeing this dude's X posts all over the shop, now? Anyway, "toxic" is a broad category and the only thing I can hang from it is that it's a word commonly used by ideologically motivated lefties. But he's speaking out against ideological shit.
I think the difference is between creating something that exists within your ideological framework, versus creating something that is literally just propaganda. The latter seems to be becoming more common, and with it comes a slew of brain dead ideologues who are quick to claim that any story that shows something automatically supports that thing. Because that's how propagandists, and those weaned on propaganda, think. For example, Damon Knight was a writer and a communist. He wrote A For Anything, a science fiction novel critical of the common idea that post-scarcity will automatically fix society. The conclusion is unspoken, but obvious: The world needs an ideological framework. But the story itself follows an aristocratic slave owner, and the slave revolt is both brutal and unsuccessful. A propagandist would conclude that Damon Knight is, in fact, pro-slavery. On the other hand we have China Mieville's Perdido Street Station. The capitalist state is cruel and incompetent, mass immigration is a good thing, and Mieville takes a few pages to lecture the reader about weapons of mass destruction.
A work written within an ideological framework can have depth, and it can even explore its ideology through critique. Propaganda can never do this. Propaganda is the simplistic telling of the audience what they must believe. Of course, propagandists always claim they are merely writing within an ideological framework, while anyone actually doing so is writing propaganda.
Oh lol, Epic is trying to pretend to be the underdog compared to Steam again. And now they're claiming "American values"? Yeah, I'll believe that when 40% of the company isn't owned by China. Nothing says "American values" like selling nearly half your ass to the CCP.
>Is ideology in games good if it isn't toxic?
Twitter gay aside, there's nothing wrong with games having an ideological theme that fits within the game's universe.
It becomes moronic when it's yet another hamfisted cold take regurgitating the most safe, politically correct opinion in the most overt, preachy and non-subtle way humanly possible in a desperate attempt to court journalists, social media, and the American college kid demographic.
Don't care. I'm going to skip your story. I have no idea what the story of any game is since the mid 2000s.
Nobody cares what Twitter leftist subhumans think
yes, but most ideologies are toxic
What's he even talking about
1. Toxicity is subjective
2. Just keep politics out of an entertainment product
Metal Gear loves talking about politics and its better for it though. The distinction is that it presents a story with certain characters that all have a take on political and philosophical questions. While a character might be a villain, that doesnt mean their philosophy or take is inherently incorrect and the game doesnt try to convince you otherwise.
In other words, it invites you to think on the subject and gives its takes, but doesnt tell you what to think. A story that does the latter isnt just political, its propaganda.
The difference is it presents ideas for the player to engage. What we get know is one point of view that is dogmatic.
yeah I agree, I just think thats the distinction between "being political" and propaganda. And I think its what most people mean when they say a game or a story is "political"
yes, it's the developer telling you what you should think, like "news" companies that present information in a way that is meant to tell you how you should feel about it rather than just stating the facts
geo politics vs identity politics
you CAN still write a balanced take on identity politics if you really wanted to. But noone does. Its just propaganda.
identity is propaganda period
it obfuscates the larger issue: legal plunder through bloated taxes as well as giving taxes away
Basically this. There's a good way to include political elements in a story, and there's a wrong way.
If you think "propaganda is good when I agree with it", you're a primitive.
captcha WANKWX
This is the guy who made hecking epic 90s retro throwback shooter
Who gets to decide what's toxic?
Toxic to whom exactly?
"It's ok if i do it"
There, I cut all the bullshit
who the frick is this slav Black person and why should I care about his X takes?
this whole discussion is pointless without getting into specific examples
you're pointless
Vague as frick statement, he should say which ideologies he thinks are "toxic" or shut up
lgbtq
For reference that thread is talking about Epic Games and Tim Sweeny's gayshenanigans with claiming to be all about combating Valve's "monopoly" and that the EGS is all about supporting devs, etc etc. It has nothing to do with ideologies in actual games.
OP is, as usual, a gay.
No, woke games are not "political", the supposedly "political" parts are more akin to cringey PSA parts
Why the frick am I seeing this dude's X posts all over the shop, now? Anyway, "toxic" is a broad category and the only thing I can hang from it is that it's a word commonly used by ideologically motivated lefties. But he's speaking out against ideological shit.
I think the difference is between creating something that exists within your ideological framework, versus creating something that is literally just propaganda. The latter seems to be becoming more common, and with it comes a slew of brain dead ideologues who are quick to claim that any story that shows something automatically supports that thing. Because that's how propagandists, and those weaned on propaganda, think. For example, Damon Knight was a writer and a communist. He wrote A For Anything, a science fiction novel critical of the common idea that post-scarcity will automatically fix society. The conclusion is unspoken, but obvious: The world needs an ideological framework. But the story itself follows an aristocratic slave owner, and the slave revolt is both brutal and unsuccessful. A propagandist would conclude that Damon Knight is, in fact, pro-slavery. On the other hand we have China Mieville's Perdido Street Station. The capitalist state is cruel and incompetent, mass immigration is a good thing, and Mieville takes a few pages to lecture the reader about weapons of mass destruction.
A work written within an ideological framework can have depth, and it can even explore its ideology through critique. Propaganda can never do this. Propaganda is the simplistic telling of the audience what they must believe. Of course, propagandists always claim they are merely writing within an ideological framework, while anyone actually doing so is writing propaganda.
>Why the frick am I seeing this dude's X posts all over the shop, now?
Got into an internet slapfight with Tim Sweeney that culminated in this haymaker that he immediately stopped replying to after.
what's so important about unreal gold?
Just that Epic and ol Timmy decided to pull it from all storefronts for literally no reason.
it's the golden goose
Oh lol, Epic is trying to pretend to be the underdog compared to Steam again. And now they're claiming "American values"? Yeah, I'll believe that when 40% of the company isn't owned by China. Nothing says "American values" like selling nearly half your ass to the CCP.
>Is ideology in games good if it isn't toxic?
Twitter gay aside, there's nothing wrong with games having an ideological theme that fits within the game's universe.
It becomes moronic when it's yet another hamfisted cold take regurgitating the most safe, politically correct opinion in the most overt, preachy and non-subtle way humanly possible in a desperate attempt to court journalists, social media, and the American college kid demographic.