im sorry you let strangers on the internet who hate you dictate how you enjoy your hobbies, not sure what "growing up" has to do with being a massive pussy
>lol the lore and themes and aesthetics of the setting are unimportant just make it the same generic slop as everything else to pander to crybaby homosexuals on social media who are losing the culture war anyways
Awful take. Also what does he mean the lore doesn't "work", it works perfectly - it keeps SJW cancer c**ts seething.
Anon. The company itself has proven it doesn't respect the fluff OR the rules, many many times over the years. It's always been up to the players to change what they don't like, and that's just one of the things you need to invest.
>If a company doesn’t respect the lore what is the point of getting involved in 40K?
To build the miniatures and play the game? >95% of the people that got into 40K was because of lore.
Those loregays are moronic and don't understand warhammer is a game setting not a novel and things change between editions. They only know of warhammer because they saw a video essay for it while their mom left them alone on the iPad.
>To build the miniatures and play the game?
lets be real, 40k is an awful game with extremely average models propped up entirely by the setting. Finish shitting up the setting and theres literally no reason to play it
there's already no reason to play it besides being so lazy or unlikable you're stuck haunting stores for pick up games like a bad smell (probably the cause of it)
They won't understand because they cannot comprehend that the kind of obtuse, combative homosexuals that haunt Ganker like the ghost of gaming past are not a growth demo.This place is fricking irrelevant and all the posts here are just shouting into the void while thinking it is still fricking 2008.
You don't need to convince us that female Space Marines should be a thing. You need convince GeeDubs and they have shown no interest in catering to a demographic with over 40% suicide rate.
It's about money. If GW had the assurance they would sell, you can bet your bottom dollar they'd print Femarines faster than you can say Emperor of Mankind. But they don't. Sure, there's kitbashers (myself included) who do this. And as long as we use their stuff it's allowed (unless they changed the rules again, I haven't actually played in an official tourney since 2017, when I moved), but that's not a guarantee of sale.
As for the 40% suicide rate, it depends where. If you were told by your parents, your peers, and randos on the net that your existence is worthless and wrong, against God and be threatened abd beaten up, you'd rope yourself too. Here (not US) we don't give a shit. Suicide rate here is less than 2% of the populace, total. You want to frick men? Get fricked? Women fricking women? Get married? As long as you don't shove it down my throat, be my guest. No one cares.
You see being paid for involvement doesnt make you an authority. You can be paid to paint the wall inside a bank, you don't get to decide how the bank handles the money in 30 years
And? Even if Gary Chalk was some literal who he would still be 100% correct. You act like 40k lore is the fricking bible when 90% of it is just ripped off from Judge Dredd.
The sad thing is that trannies are pushing for female space marines so constantly that everyone knows that's what he's referring to without anyone even having to say it.
These people obviously don't actually care about 40k, they're just using it as another political battleground. Outsiders fricking something up for their ulterior agenda should always be opposed on principle, even if their idea wasn't horrendously fricking stupid to begin with, which it is.
Outsiders using the lore as a political battleground is a direct consequence of the fans using the lore as a political battleground.
First it started with Suffer Not the Furry to Live tbh, then it became about comparing Trump to the God Emperor, and by then everyone had collectively decided that 40k lore is a free-for-all political meme-generating machine.
I'm probably the most oldgay 40k anon on this board to any regular degree. I've been around for it all. You're projecting the seething. Your original post honestly didn't even make much sense and I gave it more legitimacy than it deserved by even responding. >the fans using the lore as a political battleground
It never was idiot, there's nothing political about making jokes about furries, what an absolute delusion
Oh so you are just new and lying, got it, I think it's best for you to go back to your twatter hug pile, /tg/ is not your safe space
7 months ago
Anonymous
You are trying way too transparently hard to use language that has been used against you. But it doesn't apply in the opposite context, snowflake. Get a grip lmao.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Dude, I been around here for longer then you have, and I am not one whom has to go to /tg/ as their safe space, thinking /tg/ will not make fun of you
this. the neckbeard incels were perfectly fine plastering trump everywhere but when it's the other side they screech NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LE WEST HAS COLLAPSED
Outsiders using the lore as a political battleground is a direct consequence of the fans using the lore as a political battleground.
First it started with Suffer Not the Furry to Live tbh, then it became about comparing Trump to the God Emperor, and by then everyone had collectively decided that 40k lore is a free-for-all political meme-generating machine.
>The sad thing is that trannies are pushing for female space marines so constantly that everyone knows that's what he's referring to without anyone even having to say it
I know right. Anyway they are fighting a loosing battle as GeeDubs would have to retcon the entire Horus Heresy book series which would kill their IP. No matter how woke the leadership at GeeDubs becomes they will still have fiduciary duty to their investors who expect a handsome return on their investment.
>pushing for female space marines so constantly that everyone knows that's what he's referring to without anyone even having to say it.
What amazes me is that out of the ocean of these beggars it is only a few drops of water out of them that actually instead be bigger boys and just get female heads via third party, sororitas heads or 3D printed and just do a simple headswap and be content with that.
I think these people are what they say are "tourists."
It's because it isn't actually about having female space marines, to these people. It's about forcing female space marines in just as a "take that" to the "chuds". They don't care about the setting, they don't hobby, they don't play. You are 100% right except that what they are is even worse than tourists, because at least tourists are ignorant morons in good faith - they are activists with no intention of contributing anything of value to the community or hobby at all. It's just another space for them to try and invade and force to kneel to their woke ideology because they are aggressive cultural terrorists with an agenda.
>I have never in my life seen someone crying about a lack of female space marines.
You don't use Xitter then which is good. I unfortunately do because I like to follow artists and miniature painters and every now and then I get "those kinds" of Warhammer 40k posts. >I see you gays obsess about it all the time though.
It's mostly towards the kind of people pushing for them instead of the actual female space marines. They care about 40k probably even more than GW and have seen what happened to other sci-fi franchises that have fallen like Star Trek, and Dr. Who. They don't want that happening to Warhammer 40k.
>It's about forcing female space marines in just as a "take that" to the "chuds".
In fairness to them they are actually targeting the correct chuds in the correct way this time. But being a stopped clock right in this one instance does not bode well for letting the movement have a moment.
My buddy owns a popular LGS and I swear having to listen to 30 yo incels pontificate about the greatness and "steel hard musculature" of space marines gets really fricking old. Especially when they inevitably dip into misogyny.
I doubt GW making femuhrines would have any real impact on the hobby, though. It'd just be one more thing for radicals to rub in the face of chuds.
>Who cares? It's their hobby and free time. You sound extremely mad that your not allowed to control what people say.
No, I'm just tired of both sides.
>Are you a pretend woman? Been called out too many times?
No, just a guy who has had and regularly does have sex. You know, an ultramarine.
The was one con i went to years ago where the guy across the table from me made machinegun noises for his guard every shooting phase. I haven't been able to take wargaming seriously since then.
The fluff exists to give an excuse for your dudes to fight your mate's dudes. Otherwise, it's just toy soldiers.
It is just toy soldiers and being whinny b***h about them and trying to use em as your culture war battlefield is just deeply sad...it's sadder when you can filter them out by asking for their minis..So it's not dudes whom complain about toy soldiers, it's dudes pretending to play toy soldiers
Let me correct that.
Trannies don't play in any significant numbers compared to actual fans, especially in proportion to the number of them on twatter that b***h and whine about muh problematic no femarines etc horseshit.
Actually, the whinners that whine about trannies don't play in general, so no, trannies play a lot more by both number and proportion of fans they make up.
Nooo! You have to be emotional and complain when a company doesn’t do exactly what you want!! The brand must be your identity! Your identity is under threat and you must seethe online about it!
why isn’t this corporate product exactly the way I want it to be!
But that's you. I'm not the one with the problem. You're the one seething about lack of female marines. >Get woke go broke is real!!!
Unironically yes, kek. Even the top business sector is admitting it now.
>nooo you’re the one seething not me
Let’s not be delusional dude. We both see threads here everyday seething about GW nonstop. Half the generals are people passive aggressively bragging that “GW doesn’t get a penny from me”… in the fricking generals lol. People have intense emotional reactions to corporate products and it’s absolutely pathetic. >make a corporate brand a part of your identity >bad product comes out >I am now personally offended that my identity is besmirched >I will now seethe about it online
It’s endgame consooooomerism
>Which is why ESG exists as a bailout
Blackrock alone lost 13 trillion dollars on ESG. No serious investor that likes to make money will touch it. Adopting ESG has become a breach of a companies fiduciary duty to their investors at this point and all the ESG pushers are scrambling to distance themselves from it and rebrand to sustainability or some other nonsense.
>you're not allowed to care about things if they don't save lives
Weird opinion.
Given that Gary left GW in the 90s to make an alternative to WFB which immediately disappeared without a trace, I don't think they should be taking his business advice.
he's right in that there are concrete things that severely impact the quality of the hobby and gaming experience (release churn, constant rules and edition changes, scale creep), and GW's products are predatorily priced, and people still buy them anyway
not just that but people relentlessly dickride them in the most undignified fashion
the fluff's down the list of shit to be concerned about, but people still get really livid about it, just look at the borderline word salad posts itt. All that culture war shit bores the shit out of me, if i were an old man even more so
the guy mentioning cawl is nearly onto something, some guy we never heard of til 8th emerges from his goon cave after 10k years with gigga homie marines and all the primarchs are coming back, the fluff horse has bolted
how are you going to make me? stand in the door frame of your lgs spreading your musk? >leftist
just because I'm not subscribed to your pissant culture war doesn't mean I'm in your out-group
your outrage addiction directly funds some of the worst pieces of shit to orbit the hobby, and most of them are on the left
made me laugh seeing them retweet gary chalk, what with what he thinks of modern gw and their simps
it's not a Freudian slip, storeBlack folk are barely human freaks with a fear of bathing
if my local store wasn't run by a cashed up boomer as a hobby business the constant professional carpet cleaning would send them broke
Yes, he's right but not for "muh toy soldiers" bullshit argument. The morale of the story is that if you keep buying shit you can't suddenly expect something different from a turd inside the package.
>this somehow justifies ruining beloved IPs for everyone including those who did none of those things
Not a good look for those people at all, anon. I hope you're not one of them. It's as I believe the slang goes "bad optics."
There's a hundred threads whining about how "woke" GW has become by having more and more black Marines and more emphasis on female characters. But now you're trying to tell me GW is suddenly a bastion of BASEDness that has been gatekept successfully by TRUE FANS in a pathetic attempt at feeling better about yourself in this argument. So transparently disingenuous.
In the field of social politics, a liberal is someone whose primary political concerns are civil rights. In economic politics, it's someone who advocates for a regulated, welfare-focused economy.
1. Making good art, like he has done in my opinion, indicates you know what you're talking about with regards to art and your home genres in general.
2. However, this isn't always true. Tolstoy, for example, was an amazing writer, but he has some batshit insane dogshit takes on writing.
3. Ultimately, their cred should be enough to get you to engage with their take seriously, but you're well within your right to say "I've thought about what you said, and it's dumb as frick".
4. I completely agree that lore can and should be changed if there's a good reason to. I disagree that the story behind 40k is less important because it's toyish, however. Toys are a valid form of art.
Yes, it's from the 2nd book but it's by Gary Chalk not Joe Dever. Joe Dever is the author of lone wolf not an illustrator.
Fun fact: Lone Wolfs setting is from Joe's own dnd games and the battle of maakengorge took place in his basement.
>the battle of maakengorge took place in his basement.
Ah! I did not know that.
I remember playing them all (or I think) up to book 22 or 24, not too sure. The desert one, 6 I think, was the second book I red at 7 after the Hobbit. Thanks for the comfy memories.
You can easily ignore primarch lore or pretend it's still the 41st millennium before the imperium got split. You can even potentially ignore shit like Votanns or Sisters of Silence because they have limited relevance and no one plays those, or pretend your crons are still oldcrons.
You can't ignore shit like Primaris or Female Marines however, because they will feature prominently in the game and the promotional material. Might as well try to pretend the Tau don't exist.
Fluff, lore, whatever you want to call it, is the connective tissue between every other aspect of a gaming experience. It's not the most important thing, but if it's not held up to some degree of consistency then you might as well use whatever miniatures you want, or whatever rules you want, there doesn't need to be any reason for why anyone is fighting or why they're there in the first place.
It's not immutable, but it's not changeable without good reason either. GW don't care about the second part and just change shit willy-nilly, hence why their product is garbage.
His point about revising the lore is probably based on a desire to change things to modern taste which is probably going to be a detriment to the setting’s aesthetics. So he’s wrong there.
He’s absolutely right that 40k lorehomosexuals need to grow up. 40k is the only tabletop game ever that has secondaries in the way it does (whfb does a bit but that only began with total warhammer and isn’t anywhere near as severe ) and their desires have actively contributed to the game’s continued decline (not that it was ever a shining beacon on a hill for good game design it’s fundamentally a bit mediocre). Much worse than that is the fact that being so obsessed with any pop cultural property is first a symptom and then a cause of cultural decline and infantilisation, 40K is now to right-wing culture war people what Harry Potter was to left-wing culture war people before J.K. Rowling triggered them. It’s also what Star Wars was/is to Gen X. Though I find 40k obsession more disturbing than those because young men who think that they are somehow preserving aspects of western culture (which would be very good) are actually memorising trivia from an enjoyable pastiche setting (which is sad). Read some classics, learn an instrument, go to church, exercise, enjoy the great outdoors. Don’t stop playing or enjoying 40k but it’s not healthy to internalise pop culture franchises into your identity
>Don’t stop playing or enjoying 40k but it’s not healthy to internalise pop culture franchises into your identity
This applies to more than just 40k. This applies to basically any kind of pop culture or entertainment media franchise.
I often ask myself whether I love the 40k setting/lore a bit too much from time to time. >Much worse than that is the fact that being so obsessed with any pop cultural property is first a symptom and then a cause of cultural decline and infantilisation
How so? Genuinely asking. If anything it's more likely a sign that it has reached a new height. >40K is now to right-wing culture war people what Harry Potter was to left-wing culture war people before J.K. Rowling triggered them.
I'll be real with you. I found Harry Potter political analogies absolutely hilariously bad and likewise 40k political analogies absolutely hilariously bad. I just saw Harry Potter political analogies first, and to be honest they taught me that anybody who needs fictional media to comprehend real world politics shouldn't have an opinion on them.
>This applies to more than just 40k. This applies to basically any kind of pop culture or entertainment media franchise.
Yes that’s why I generalised the statement and referenced both Harry Potter and Star Wars >How so? Genuinely asking. If anything it's more likely a sign that it has reached a new height.
Not a decline of the property, a decline of culture broadly. If people are obsessed with pop culture franchises it probably means they’re not sufficiently exposed to art or mainstay cultural phenomena with more depth. Then once they’re obsessed with the pop culture franchise, they’re less likely to take interest in those more worthy things instead. I’m not being that condemning, I’ve had the same problem before, especially as a child (with Star Wars and lotr) and teenager (a little with 40k but more with elder scrolls), but that’s how I know that it’s so empty compared to higher art and religion >I found Harry Potter political analogies absolutely hilariously bad and likewise 40k political analogies absolutely hilariously bad.
I wouldn’t claim that the issue is universal in 40k fans, but it’s relatively common and is only the most extreme form of the problem. I never made the political analogies myself and I’m sure many don’t either, but many people do.
Personally, I'm not completely against the idea of female space marines, I'm just against the inevitable baggage that comes with it. Logically, there would be little to physically differentiate them since they'd all be modified children. But even more importantly, space marines are heavily discouraged from deviating from certain standards. Even if their was physiological differences, what does it even mean to be a woman when you're expected to eat, breath, sleep, and shit war in the exact same way as every other marine in your chapter? Do you think people who are pushing for female space marines would be fine with it if the only difference is some marines would be called "sister" instead of "brother" instead? I don't think so.
>Do you think people who are pushing for female space marines would be fine with it if the only difference is some marines would be called "sister" instead of "brother" instead? I don't think so.
I mean, it's what I want, and I honestly think it's what most people who'd like to see female space marines want - it's why I've never understood the absolute opposition to it.
Sure, there are people like you but I've grown very jaded over the years. I'm in a "if you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask for a glass of milk," type mindset.
I never cared much for space marines but nominally they're supposed to be warrior monks and monks are typically male. Of course this is betrayed by the fact that every space marine chapter has its own gimmicks that don't fit in with that description.
People like you might be, but people in your cult won't, and they'll sooner expell you and claim you are a traitor against them the second you stop being a useful idiot to them.
Why do you want it? If nothing really changes why crusade for it so hard? Nothings stopping me from going all my Kriegers or whatever are actually female much like you doing the same for marines. Whats wrong with SoB then? You guys are literally a virus
the opposition to it is that it would be incongruous with the setting. if you could go back to pre-1990 and write in that the space-marining process didn't care about sex, or do a new setting with same, then fine. you have female space marines no problem. the issue here is that you've got a setting where (a) there have always been male-only space marines for >10,000 years, and (b) the imperium doesn't do progress; the whole setting is built on the idea of humanity being in its twilight years, the imperium a shambling corpse fallen far from its golden years with no future except surviving another day and getting a little worse. having female marines suddenly "appear" would be every bit as bone-headed as resurrecting primarchs or adding primaris marines.
They'd argue about primaris forgetting the lore of the primaris us they're basically a few extra organs the emperor designed mid crusade and gave a wacky scientist visions i how to implement them.
But there's nothing in the lore saying Primaris can never exist, though, just that it would be extremely difficult to modify the Emperor's genetic engineering.
Frick, Fabius Bile already did it when he was modifying Fulgrim's geneseed.
We have dozens of citations from lore stating explicitly that female space marines can't happen, full-stop, no debate.
>DND changes lore between editions
Damn some of this stuff is moronic but as a tabletop game I'm free to change whatever I want as I see fit or run the lore from the old editions >Warhammer changes lore between editions
REEEEEE EVERYTHING IS RUINED FOREVER! *seethes about muh newcrons and muh primaris for the next decade*
I'm not bothered by most arguments, but the one that gets me is always "that thing fricking sucks and is for gay kids anyway so just let us frick with it chud".
Like the sheer bare-faced contempt for the original thing and its community and completely undisguised ulterior motives is disgusting. They're the types who aren't even intelligent enough to come up with an excuse as to why you need to accept what they want.
Those types of people were most likely bullied as kids and as adults are now spending it ruining things for everyone to spite the chuds that live rent free in their heads birthed by said bullying from their childhoods. Their buttholery in their minds completely justified no matter what. Ironically they're no better than the bullies that mistreated them.
In this case they probably go in and knowingly downgrade franchises with bad writing to own the boogeymen and those who didn't do anything get caught in the crossfire.
Really all they're doing is creating x-phobes/x-phobics and making their communities/those alike them look bad by just being themselves.
Does this contradict GW's reasoning behind the shift to monopose miniatures? IIRC one of the designers at GW said one of the reasons behind the change in poses and sculpts is cause while they encouraged creativity, too many people were making "your dudes" from the ground up which clashed with the rules and the game itself.
Of course he's right. They're glorified green army men, not the works of Shakespeare.
Arguing about the lore of any Games Workshop product is the height of insanity. At that point, go outside and dunk yourself in a river. You have to be legitimately autistic to take any of this shit seriously.
>Seething pedo angry AI replaced him, all 3 of his games were in the red fails and now needs to fellate politics cucks
Many such cases, especially among failed art school rejects.
>projecting insecurity that a tool can replace you
Thank you for proving only the likes of you or referenced failed artist care about a tool and will project your insecurity through political shitting.
It literally doesn't matter, you could make all space marines female right now. It would be a hallow victory for blue haired women with daddy issues, and a huge nothing burger for anyone playing the latest Meta-hammer tournaments.
why?
Because fantasy and 40k doesn't retcon and when GW tries the players ignore it.
The lore with each edition. so all the crews that play 2nd ed, 3rd ed 40k, rogue trader etc, would just go 'whatever, this edition doesn't have primaris, it doesnt have females, YOUR version does, have fun with that.
It's EXACTLY the same way that fantasy players talk about their editions, they know lore changes and they just ignore it; "no thats not in 6th, thats its 8th", or 3rd ed grogs saying "no, slann are 40k frogs lost in the oldworld and cold ones are from underground caves, not from lustria", or "dwarves have wizards".
change it, nogame, nomodel b***hes will rush out and buy some funkopops and update their insta, one or two fat beardy c**ts will make some REALLY lewd marines, and then theyll go back to chasing the meta.
There is a simple solution: Waraxe 41K, now with alternatively living Empress of Womankind that has a democratically chosen cool and badass government officials that fight the battles for inclusivity by the way of unopposed monologues with mandatory clapping afterwards. But it's a new IP doomed for oblivion, because the proposed changes are truly not worth anything.
HH 2nd edition was released after that and contains lore stating there are only male Space Marines and that the gene-seed only works on males so who are they really not missing here eh?
That game itself breaks with established lore. The devs said they were banned from allowing the player to sexo the sister (they asked) because of muh lore but there's several examples of sisters getting FRICKED by guardsmen and what have you. So the argument still holds. MUH 40k lore is meaningless.
>What amazes me is that out of the ocean of these beggars it is only a few drops of water out of them that actually instead be bigger boys and just get female heads via third party, sororitas heads or 3D printed and just do a simple headswap and be content with that.
People try to do that and are immediately mogged by dipshits like you shrieking "YWNBAW" and "Wrong colors for a Slaanesh chapter." So apparently painting your own minis and posting them is enough to get anti-wokies REEEEEEEEEEing.
That game itself breaks with established lore. The devs said they were banned from allowing the player to sexo the sister (they asked) because of muh lore but there's several examples of sisters getting FRICKED by guardsmen and what have you. So the argument still holds. MUH 40k lore is meaningless.
The developers came out and said that piece of dialogue was from an early build and removed.
Big tiddy Ork gf when? I mean why do all Orks have to be boyz? Where are the Ork Girlz?
>Big tiddy Ork gf when? I mean why do all Orks have to be boyz? Where are the Ork Girlz?
Besides, Orks are asexual and IDENTIFY AS MALE. Nothing is stopping them or you identifying your army as female and painting them as such. Hell, the novel Brutal Kunnin' had a discussion on this.
Imagine being such a philosophical zombie that you cannot grasp anything outside of your narrow political world view.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Imagine being so intellectually impotent that you read my responses as having a political world view.
Maybe it's that people like you don't belong here, never belonged here, and should just leave and not post any more.
Make me, you dumb c**t. You're just as powerless to make me leave as you are to stop GW from changing the lore. You have as much influence as that idiot who burned his Wood Elves army when Age of Sigmar became a thing
7 months ago
Anonymous
Imagine coming into someone's house, acting in a way contrary to the customs of the house, and then being a smug c**t about not just leaving when you're clearly not welcome.
7 months ago
Anonymous
They do. You're just arguing like a moron. Or trying to argue change for arbitrary politics is good. It's not.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Show me anywhere in my comments where I argued for female space marines, you dumb c**t. Me mocking you homosexuals for screeching about it and proving that GW doesn't treat its lore like a sacred cow isn't supporting them.
7 months ago
Anonymous
You're arguing the change would automatically be good. Ergo you're defending that argument.
>Games Workshop already has them you dumb bastard
SPACE ORKZ you dumbass. Where are the SPACE ORK Girlz you dunbass.
>Nothing is stopping them or you identifying your army as female and painting them as such
There are no official big tiddy SPACE ORK models dumbass. Why doesn't GeeDubs cater to my fetishes WAAH!!!
7 months ago
Anonymous
Look at this homosexual melt down when his strawman is blown away.
Orks literally all look the same with minor facial differences. They don't have any biological sex but refer to each other with masculine pronouns.
>Why doesn't GeeDubs cater to my fetishes WAAH!!!
Says the nut gargler mocking people that don't want all Space Marines to be asexual, male-presenting, masculine pronoun eunuchs. Sounds like you've got some kind of big bear man sterility fetish. What a homosexual.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Look at this homosexual melt down when his strawman is blown away
Its literally how the woke justify their demands for female Space Marines. >waah waah its not enough for me to be able to convert models for my headcanon chick supersoldier fetish
7 months ago
Anonymous
If something is canon you can buy the models off the shelf, see tutorials about painting those models, play against those models, read stories and see art about those models, etc.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Well yes and that is the point of their demands. They don't want their chick supersoldiers to be just their headcanon. Its supposed to be official canon and telling them no invokes the kind of anger you would expect from the kind of raging narcissists which they are.
7 months ago
Anonymous
As already stated, you illiterate imbecile, they get harassed and bullied for that too, so why bother stopping there. You anti-woke idiots are so sensitive that even the sight of kit-bashed or painted female space marines causes you to screech autistically at them.
Imagine coming into someone's house, acting in a way contrary to the customs of the house, and then being a smug c**t about not just leaving when you're clearly not welcome.
What a weak ass response. GW isn't your house. It's a company originally made up of left-wing reactionaries mocking and stealing from Thatcherite Britain and dystopian fiction. They've changed the lore countless times since Rogue Trader and established both quite early and again recently that the "lore" is unreliable and contradicting it is basically company policy (ie the Lost Primarchs).
Also, what kind of weak ass homosexual are you that you honestly equate some voices online about a fricking model company to someone physically being in your personal residence? Why is your sense of self-identity so tied up in a game that clearly doesn't care about your feelings? Enjoying it is one thing, acting like it changing is a personal attack reeks of low-test energy. These people are kit-bashing their own shit and playing it at game stores. You'd know that if you actually left the house instead of screeching at shadows
7 months ago
Anonymous
>GW was mid level left wing in the 80s so they need to have trannie marines.
Protip: trannoids are insulted because most of them are loud obnoxious cretins whose pussy worship became their entire persona and are rightfully mocked for being the horrible scarred mounds of egotism, chemical imbalances and mental health problems they are.
Just because the current left in the US is obsessed with victim martyrdom doesn't mean even the left wing support these Mongoloids
7 months ago
Anonymous
>>I don't have an actual rebuttal, so I'll strawman your statement to sound smart
Achieve a proper number of chromosomes, you slope-headed moron. Again, show me anywhere in my comments where I argued for female space marines, you dumb c**t. Me mocking you homosexuals for screeching about it and proving that GW doesn't treat its lore like a sacred cow isn't supporting them.
You're arguing the change would automatically be good. Ergo you're defending that argument.
Again, show me anywhere in my comments where I argued that change is good. Me mocking you homosexuals for screeching about it and proving that GW doesn't treat its lore like a sacred cow isn't supporting them.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Repeating phrases is a sign of someone either mentally impared or angered at opposition. I'm not screeching, my posting style is clearly half arsed, meanwhile you are trying to cram as many insults as you can into your posts but lack any actual argument.
You my friend, are mad. y u mad?
7 months ago
Anonymous
So you don't have any evidence that I support FSM and have to rely on flimsy conjecture to save face?
7 months ago
Anonymous
I'm calling you out on simply being mad that you were proven to be a castigating little shit who is trying to save face and pretend to be the edgy cool insult thrower and not the clown who is trying to argue for stupid opinions.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Again, present me where I "argued for stupid opinions." I've been accused that either I'm pro-FSM or supporting, and no one can seem to prove it. Sounds like you're a bunch of idiots who don't appreciate being called out.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Arguing that people are stupid for arguing against something is taking the side of the thing they are arguing against anon. Are you an ESL or something?
You said women voting was bad and I showed women voting correlates with prosperous nations and now you're rambling about how you're actually right that women voting is bad because some countries women vote for conservatives and those countries are thriving? I think your brain is misfiring, none of what you're saying connects to the previous things you've said.
I am not the same person, I personally think Women vote more unironically for protectionism and for safety nets and while not bad things, it is these things that are causing issues in the west as they weight under the weight of human refuse.
Women voting is fine, I find their choices questionable.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>I find their choices questionable.
People will make questionable choices, but as with democracy in general, the benefits outweigh the downsides. It's better for a population to have buy in and be able to mitigate poor government decisions even if they don't always make the optimal ones. The alternative is an autocrat who decides they don't really believe in agriculture and half the country starves to death.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I'm talking about Ganker you moron. I'm not even reading the rest of your wordvomit beyond that.
7 months ago
Anonymous
You think Ganker is YOUR HOUSE? Holy shit. You should check the microwave, I think your diapers are done.
7 months ago
Anonymous
It's certainly not yours.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Never claimed it was. Got any more scathing repartee? I'm getting bored.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Leave and never come back. You're unliked and unwanted. I imagine these traits carry over into real life as well.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Or what? You'll have more shitty arguments?
Arguing that people are stupid for arguing against something is taking the side of the thing they are arguing against anon. Are you an ESL or something?
[...]
I am not the same person, I personally think Women vote more unironically for protectionism and for safety nets and while not bad things, it is these things that are causing issues in the west as they weight under the weight of human refuse.
Women voting is fine, I find their choices questionable.
that people are stupid for arguing against something is taking the side of the thing they are arguing against anon. Are you an ESL or something?
Mocking people for their shitty arguments =/= arguing that people are stupid for arguing. I can't believe you actually think that's what's going on.
Besides, if I WERE an ESL, that just makes it look WORSE that you idiots can't refute anything I've said on the topic.
Yet you are in his house, trying to dictate what he should think.
>>Yet you are in his house, trying to dictate what he should think.
Ganker's not his house, window-licker. It's a publicly-accessed website. No wonder you shit your pants about FSM, your perceptions reality are fricking stupid.
7 months ago
Anonymous
have a nice day
7 months ago
Anonymous
>>have a nice day
Make me, you impotent child.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Your botched GRS will do the job for me.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>>Oh no! He's making me look like a dumbass! I better call him a troony!
Trannies and morons like you can both get fricked. Try again, you pants-shitting moron.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yet you are in his house, trying to dictate what he should think.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>they get harassed and bullied for that too, so why bother stopping there
Narcissists are the ones who bully and fly into a rage when denied.
7 months ago
Anonymous
See, the point where you just replying the small sentences of a flimsy deflective insult prove you have no real meat to your argument. People have proven the change is arbitrary and exists only to stroke the egos of a small politically prvileged class and you're angry at that.
You've tried to argue this entire thread that we're somehow bad guys for not yielding to the shitty ideas of left wing gender politics, and that a group of overly sensitive neurotic idiots should be coddled lest their mountains of mental issues cause a landslide of their own design.
7 months ago
Anonymous
My argument is that I have a zero tolerance policy vs narcissists and will tell them no on principle.
7 months ago
Anonymous
At this point I genuinely think you don't know what a narcissist.
"I do not like changes for political reasons and twitter clout" is not a particularly narcissist stance.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Woke causes attract people with dark triad traits. And making everything about YOU is a narcissistic trait and so is freaking the frick out when you are told NO.
7 months ago
Anonymous
are the ones who bully and fly into a rage when denied.
So, how you guys react when trannies and women paint and kit bash female space marines?
7 months ago
Anonymous
I find it tacky and rather pathetic in the same way painting marines in obvious nation flag colours is rather distasteful.
It's not a labour of Hobbyism but a pathetic attempt to virtue signal and justify their IRL choices through plastic artwork.
Sadly the Lego Company research that female custom requires an absurd degree of self inserting and bending the story around their own banal bullshit has led to companies trying to make their existing settings bland slop instead of making separate lines that would appeal.
And that's stupid from any perspective: watering down your setting to get femoids will only provide money in the short term. They chase fads and all of history has noted them as being flighty and capricious. Give them a few years and they won't even remember having been a consoomer for your brand, much less bringing in continual money. Meanwhile you alienate the actual die-hards who'll take out a second mortgage to buy mint-condition Bionicles.
Of course, the above b***hing only applies to companies that are legitimately trying to maintain profitability rather than ones on-board with social engineering and removing all feelings of joy and connection.
>Meanwhile you alienate the actual die-hards who'll take out a second mortgage to buy mint-condition Bionicles.
Mind you a lot of the aspergerian males who do that, have AT LEAST 30+% chance of turning Trans and maybe a 60% chance of those surviving.
You ever seen the shape-rotation IQ tests for the different sexes and transes? MTFs register as *More* male than men.
>This statement was released over 3 years ago >Not a single follow-up from the company, no attempt to make Warhammer 'for everyone' >The words haven't been repeated by a single GW staffer in any publication, stream or WarCom article >It's as if the blog post that made the statement doesn't exist at all
Usually when a company stands by something, they tend to make it known somehow instead of bringing it up once in a blog post and then never mentioning it again.
Mind if I share an argument I came up with?
This isn't what I actually believe, it's just an idea that I've been rolling around in my head that I wanted to bounce off other people.
Maybe there aren't any female space marines because space marines are sexist?
What I mean by that is that most space marine chapters like to recruit from planets with strong warrior cultures. Maybe these planets forbid women from trying to become space marines, or the space marines on their end, hailing from these cultures themselves (and because space marine amnesia is dumb), won't accept women as aspirants.
It might also be because the recruiting process; A. Only picks the top *percentage* of candidates. (For the more civilized chapters this involves recruiting based on physical scoring. For the less civilized chapters this involves locking two aspirants in a room with a knife and telling them only one is allowed to leave). B. Is incredibly brutal (Most chapters have some kind of trial which involves dropping an aspirant on a death world with nothing but the clothes on their back and a slap on the ass.)
So it's not that female space marines are impossible because of geneseed, or that they're indistinguishable from male space marines, it's just that they're 1-in-1000000 rare. and since there should only be ~10000 space marines between the 9 main loyalist space marine chapters, they just never show up.
Of course, this applies less-so to chaos space marines, who don't have to even pretend to care about the codex astartes, and can choose to go full quantity over quality and simply recruit as many space marines as they can logistically handle. Although they also might still have to be at least partially selective when recruiting so the overall quality of their geneseed doesn't decrease to the point that it becomes unusable. And you could argue that the process to become a chaos space marine from a baseline human could be even more brutal than that for loyalist space marines.
Although on a more meta note, If you want a woman in power armor for your chaos faction, you aren't stuck with just the sisters of battle like the loyalists, you can make a demon prince or a champion of chaos, so you don't really need female csm's anyways.
And none of this applies to the alpha legion, who can only recruit alpharius
Thinking about this some more, mind if I share another thought?
Maybe female space marines isn't just about "Muh wokeism" it's about aesthetic wholeness. 40k is already a super diverse setting and this is just a weird blind spot that nobody can give a good explanation for why it's there.
There are already female assassins, female guard, female inquisitors, female psykers, female mechanicus, female knights, female rogue traders and female gangers so it's weird that there are no female space marines or equivalent.
>The Sisters of battle
A. The sisters of battle are not "female space marines", they're "nuns with guns" it's completely different and you know it.
B. The sisters of battle suck ass. I can name all 18 space marine chapters off the dome and describe their differences in tactics and aesthetics. You could describe to me a space marines gear without any mention of color scheme or chapter markings and I could reliability guess what chapter they belong to. Can anyone do the same for the sisters of battle orders?
That is a good fricking question.
I don't fricking know and it makes me sad.
40k style buddhist monks that worship the emperor and do chainsword kung-fu when?
>B. The sisters of battle suck ass. I can name all 18 space marine chapters off the dome and describe their differences in tactics and aesthetics. You could describe to me a space marines gear without any mention of color scheme or chapter markings and I could reliability guess what chapter they belong to. Can anyone do the same for the sisters of battle orders?
Hmm, the "women in power armor" faction doesn't seem to be doing well... I know, we'll retcon the extremely popular "men in power armor" faction to have women! Genius.
>People ask for women in power armor. >Make them worse than the men in power armor. >People ask why we can't just have the men in power armor, but with women. >Sperg out
>>Make them worse than the men in power armor.
Time to make the males worse too, then - a logical conclusion from the resident troon
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Implying that what makes the sob worse than the sm is "muh wamen" and not that they get 1/100th of the attention from gw.
Sororitas are fine. Being "worser than the brand favorite faction who get almost all the love from the devs" isn't a proof of being bad.
x being bad is not the same thing as x being worse than y
the sororitas ARE fine, they just literally do not have the same depth as the astartes.
If you want to get into 40k, regardless of what you think is "cool" the sm will have something for you or, at the very least, you can homebrew a successor chapter.
If you want to get into sob for that 'badass women in power armor" aesthetic. but you don't want nuns with guns, you're SOL. They do the nuns with guns aesthetic perfectly fine, but that's all they do. That's like if the only space marine chapter was ultramarines. Perfectly serviceable, but fricking boring.
7 months ago
Anonymous
You can have nuns with swords, nuns with hallebards, nuns with maces, nuns with wings. There is plenty of ministorum units to add. They should develop and update old ministorum units.
Comparing with SM, many chapter variations are mostly the same. Different shoulderpads and color, sometimes "different tactics in lore", it's mostly the same in Adepta sororitas orders.
Finally, GW will never put as much work they've made into SM to any other faction, they're too lazy.
You can homebrew your sister order too, it was well made in V9.
7 months ago
Anonymous
+ I got it, you have some big variants with SM, salamanders, wolves ect, with extra human abilities to spice it up, and there is none with Sororitas. Maybe that what you like with Spaces Marines.
7 months ago
Anonymous
For me it's mostly an aesthetic difference. If I want space marines but vikings, I have the space wolves, If I want space marines but arthurian knights, I have the dark angels. If I want guardsmen but ww1, I have the kriegers, if I want guardsmen but rambo, I have the catachans, if I want sisters but I don't want catholic nuns, I can go frick myself.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Because Catholic Nuns are cool.
7 months ago
Anonymous
all of the things listed are cool, and plenty of things that arent listed are also cool
7 months ago
Anonymous
>I can go frick myself
Please do.
7 months ago
Anonymous
So convert them, make onna bushi SoB or something, GW won't do shit to explore anything other than muh marines so you must make /yourdudettes/ happen on your own.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>That's like if the only space marine chapter was ultramarines
this would be an improvement
They had female space marines. They didn't sell.
That's your reason they don't exist now.
The people clamouring for female space marines now can have them. The lore is bullshit and not authoritative. If you want female space marines, you can model them and make your own lore up. It's literally that easy.
However, the people who say they want female space marines are one of the following; >Trannies who want trannies in the fluff >Non gamers who want the company to provide them something they still won't buy, for diversity reasons
There's no reason for gw to kowtow to these demands because it won't generate more income for them
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Release like two models in the 90's of, not even female space marines, just mercenaries. Literally just women in power armor; basically just proto-sob, minus the nun aesthetic. >These whopping two models get a resounding "meh" from the six people who played warhammer back then. >The people have clearly spoken, the "true fans" DESPISED female space marines. This TERRIBLE idea is an affront to the SOUL of warhammer and must never be attempted, EVER again.
No. People are demanding female space marines.
Has it ever crossed either of your minds that this started as a genuine line of question "why are there no female space marines besides fake lore". and then someone just came along and simply stapled "trannies/coomers/essjaydoubleu's want this" without any kind of substantiation to shut down the argument by tying it to the culture war, but instead of shutting it down this just agitates more people; who are genuinely curious, but the only answer they seem to find is. >REEEEEE >TRANNIES >REEEEEE
Like, why are you like this? I don't do this for you. I don't assume you hate female space marines because you're chuds. Your argument is actually very straight forward. It was fine before, so why change it? So why can't I get further answers besides >Muh trannies ?
7 months ago
Anonymous
>fake lore
It's all fake, it's all made up. But to change it at this point just makes the setting even less internally consistent than it already was. For 40 years the fluff has been that only dudes can be marines. Why change it instead of making something new. If you want women super soldiers in power armor fighting demons from the sex dimension, nobody's stopping you. Just don't call it 40k
7 months ago
Anonymous
If it was a genuine line of questioning you would get mad and call things 'fake lore' when people offer a rebuttal.
You do nothing but insult people and even in this very post you attack others for seeing you for the idpol obsessed agitator you are.
Nothing we reply you to will convince you otherwise, you are not here to talk about the hobby. You are here to be a c**t.
Thread Dying
In a rush
TLDR
You roll your eyes when people say "the lore changes all the time" but it's true. So this is a weird hill to die on, I believe you have an ulterior motive (which is fine, by the way. You don't have to be a staunch traditionalist to oppose female space marines, you can just believe that they'll suck. But don't hide your actual argument behind a different, unrelated argument), so I just straight up don't believe you when you say "this is the way it's always been"
And also I don't think that's even true, I thought way back when: a space marine used to just be a dude in power armor and geneseed didn't even exist.
Alright anon. What line if reasoning would you consider to be fair for me to argue down against the inclusion of female space marines?
Unironically that female space marines are dumb and gay. that's it. No idpol bullshit, none of us pretending we care about the old lore, things are good if they're good and bad if they're bad, and say that even with good writers, female space marines would be executed poorly.
Granted, I'd disagree. But that's the nature of the internet. You can still make a better argument than screeching about trannies and hoping enough people buy into your idpol.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>So this is a weird hill to die on, I believe you have an ulterior motive
I don't see you protesting for female orks because Orks aren't a predominant figure for the company and that is revealing for your motives as a whole.
7 months ago
Anonymous
A. Orks being a fungus is cooler than orks having men and women. So literally the argument that im advocating for. Say thing is dumb because it's dumb, and not because of muh idpol.
B. Orks actually are what we pretend space marines are. Excessively masculine. Space marines showcase the full range of humanity, so it's weird that none of them are women. Orks live for fighting and Killin, they don't really need that kind of range.
C. Actually, why the frick not? Orks are fun and goofy. It'd be neat if we had female characters in w40k that matched that energy.
D. And we already have spots in lore for females to fill that ork niche. Digganobz, gangers, penal legions and maybe some of the goofier cultists
7 months ago
Anonymous
>And we already have spots in lore for females to fill that ork niche
SoB fill the FSM neiche, or wait no thry don't according to you; So these don't fill it either hypocrite.
>Orks actually are what we pretend space marines are. Excessively masculine. Space marines showcase the full range of humanity
You can't be excessively masculine and still have a full range of humanity too? That's a moronic take
>Orks being a fungus is cooler than orks having men and women. So literally the argument that im advocating for.
And what's written now is cooler than what you're proposing from head cannon and has been for 30+ years. Maybe that's why this skub has died on the BL written room floor.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Female digganobz don't fill the female ork niche
You just made an argument for female orks then? I was trying to make a point that we don't have to put wamen™ in everything. Fsm are just a specific edge case. If you disagree good for you, more women all across the board is cool too I guess. >you can't be excessively masculine and have the full range of humanity
Literally yes
You cant be a hypermacho cartoon character and simultaneously meaningfully reflect on the human condition. Unless you're being hyper macho as a form of satire. >and what is written now is cooler than what you're proposing from head cannon.
There it fricking is! It took us a whole thread but we got there. Now... can you explain your logic please? How does space marines being only men make for better stories than both male and female space marines?
Why do things have to change? Battletech has always been humans only, and there's always been some people who really want aliens to show up, but the game has never added them because they're fundamentally incompatible with the basics of the setting
>why do things have to change?
Because tzeentch was right, why do they not have to change? It's kind of dumb that we should default to change or not change, rather than good or bad
But no seriously >fundamentally incompatible with the basis of the setting
Oh look, the other good argument!
What do you mean by fundamentally compatible/why do you believe fsm are fundamentally incompatible with warhammer's setting?
Normally this would be the prompt that we'd use to get stuck in, but the threads dead. So I guess just work on answers to those questions so you can come out swinging next time one of these threads pops up.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Why do things have to change? Battletech has always been humans only, and there's always been some people who really want aliens to show up, but the game has never added them because they're fundamentally incompatible with the basics of the setting
7 months ago
Anonymous
If it was a genuine line of questioning you would get mad and call things 'fake lore' when people offer a rebuttal.
You do nothing but insult people and even in this very post you attack others for seeing you for the idpol obsessed agitator you are.
Nothing we reply you to will convince you otherwise, you are not here to talk about the hobby. You are here to be a c**t.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Alright anon. What line if reasoning would you consider to be fair for me to argue down against the inclusion of female space marines?
Curious how politics obsessed neckbeards who got into warhammer through video essays and dawn of war memes claim to be "truer fans" of warhammer than a guy who has been in the British tabletop games industry since the 80s. These mental patients don't actually like warhammer they like the super edgy version of it that exists only in their head and reddit memes. We're led to believe that warhammer is like a novel that tells a continuous story by them and that the lore is something that can't change when it reality its been retconned several times by GW with shit like the 13th black crusade and squats being completely rewritten. If GW wants female space marines in their game I'm sure they'll find a way to make it work.
Gary the lore, the game is paid for, and the new Lore sucks. Its absolute trash. The product is junk and its something we paid and pay for. Get serious.
People who adopt some agnostic "it's just lore bro why do you care" are fronting for the fact they want it to change in a specific direction. If it was somehow retconned that space marines are all aryan supermen because the gene seed requires superior hyperborean DNA to work its magic and swarthoids can never become astartes, these same people would suddenly discover that they care very deeply about the integrity of the lore and that you can't just change it however you want.
The issue is that the lore IS working. Nobody has a problem with 40k Lore except a bunch of tourists who don't really like the game or the setting or the hobby, and are really just in it for clout or to try and infect something else with their mentally ill Leftoid nonsense.
Anyone claiming this isn't what it is can be dismissed out of hand. We all saw what happened to D&D, we all saw what happened to White Wolf, we all see what happens when we countenance this mentally ill shit, you've exhausted ALL of your credit on the "well we're just trying to help tee hee" account, NOTHING anyone to the Left of Mussolini says can be trusted, you are NOT honest actors, you are NOT fans just like me.
FRICK YOU. Stay away from my fricking hobby, I would rather it die than be corrupted by you vermin, I don't even know or care what the lore in question is.
>The issue is that the lore IS working.
Primaris are working? Nucrons are working? Nusquats are working? Lmao you may be moronic if you think this. >Nobody has a problem with 40k Lore except a bunch of tourists who don't really like the game or the setting or the hobby, and are really just in it for clout or to try and infect something else with their mentally ill Leftoid nonsense.
Nonsense, Pointing out some elements of the games story are poorly explored or implemented isn't tantamount to being a leftist. Almost every for instance hated the 13th black crusade >Anyone claiming this isn't what it is can be dismissed out of hand.
Crimestop >We all saw what happened to D&D, we all saw what happened to White Wolf, we all see what happens when we countenance this mentally ill shit, you've exhausted ALL of your credit on the "well we're just trying to help tee hee" account, NOTHING anyone to the Left of Mussolini says can be trusted, you are NOT honest actors, you are NOT fans just like me.
How is changing/retconning lore tantamount to making it woke like nudnd? Also white wolf was basically always leftist >FRICK YOU. Stay away from my fricking hobby, I would rather it die than be corrupted by you vermin, I don't even know or care what the lore in question is.
Holy onions meltdown
>Primaris are working? Nucrons are working? Nusquats are working? Lmao you may be moronic if you think this.
The moronic third worlders who spend all day calling people tourists found out about 40k around two years ago themselves and don't realize that anything you're listing is a retcon.
>Primaris are working? Nucrons are working? Nusquats are working? Lmao you may be moronic if you think this.
And this is supposed to be an argument for fem marines? What makes you think fem marines will "work" better than any of those other things have? >OK yeah I know every single retcon has made the lore worse so far, but trust us, this time will be totally different because our culture war agenda says it will.
>And this is supposed to be an argument for fem marines? What makes you think fem marines will "work" better than any of those other things have?
my post never mentioned female marines moron >>OK yeah I know every single retcon has made the lore worse so far, but trust us, this time will be totally different because our culture war agenda says it will.
not even true. dreadnoughts being mortally wounded soldiers was a retcon and it's one of the more iconic aspects of the lore
>I never mentioned female space marines >But I will argue the point anyway and if anyone tries to offer a rebuttle I will just argue I never argued for female space marines.
You're still trying to justify the argument though, you're literally whining that Well if X happened in rogue trader and was changed Y should happen now"
Fact is, Female Space Marines would be a change simply to placate political actors and not actually contribute anything worthwhile, moreso it would diminish the literally "Warrior-Faternity" ideas that the Space Marines are based on; Knightly Orders, Monkastic groups and even Viking raiding bands.
>Implying anything to do with Cawl is an improvement
Also I'm getting pretty sick of this narrative of "Giving a shit about something is bad." I know it's a cover for turning 40k into yet another casualty of moronic libshit ideas but as an argument in and of itself it's pretty abhorrent.
This was inevitable since the day GW turned into a public company. Investors don't give a shit about the people already buying a product, most of them likely have no clue what the product even is. The idea is that if you pander to gay transsexual black women, suddenly sales will quadruple as they will surely buy product in the same amount as white men once did (and needless to say, they think you'll keep buying in the same numbers too).
I don't want female space marines on aesthetic grounds but he is correct the lore changes every new codex or edition anyway and anyone appealing to lore is stupid or dishonest
>this is important enough to change >I don't like the change >haha no this is far too unimportant to care about if it changes, despite the fact that change was very important when we did it and important enough for me to panic when you suggest changing it back
No, he is not right. He is gaslighting. I don't know who this man is, but I think everyone who makes this dishonest argument deserves to be shot.
It's not gaslighting to say the lore is not real, and therefore changing the lore is not an affront in itself.
"You can't do X, it would make the lore worse" and "You can't do X, it would change the lore" are very different arguments, and it isn't dishonest to give weight to one but not the other.
Saying something isn't important enough to warrant worrying about a change is the gaslighting. Because if it isn't important enough to worry about, then that goes both ways. You want X to be different? It's not important, you manbaby. They're toy soldiers. What do you care? Buy different toy soldiers.
"It's not important enough to worry that it's being changed" and "It's important enough to worry if a change is bad or good" are two different arguments and it isn't dishonest to give weight to one and not the other.
Do you not understand the distinction between worrying about the quality of change and considering change itself a violation of something sacred? I don't want female space marines because it would be a bad change, not because I consider the 40k lore something serious enough that change would be sacrilegious
His point is very clear: It's just toy soldiers and anyone worrying about said toy soldiers needs to grow up. He makes no distinction between qualitative levels of change. So the counterpoint is "why were toy soldiers important enough to change in the first place, then?"
>He makes no distinction between qualitative levels of change
Yes he does. He says "if the lore isn't working, change it." To say "isn't working" is calling that part of lore bad, or holding back the overall quality in some way.
7 months ago
Anonymous
He makes an opinionated assumption on what lore should do. Lore is merely the background of a setting designed to add depth.
Having a process be exclusively tied to a particular sex is working as intended.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>He makes an opinionated assumption
Saying his opinion is an opinion is pointless tautology and if we've reached the point that the only thing you have left to say is that opinions on lore are in fact opinions you should concede and move on.
>even these trillion dollar institutions are taking a step back
Blackrock alone lost thirteen trillion dollars on ESG.
This was inevitable since the day GW turned into a public company. Investors don't give a shit about the people already buying a product, most of them likely have no clue what the product even is. The idea is that if you pander to gay transsexual black women, suddenly sales will quadruple as they will surely buy product in the same amount as white men once did (and needless to say, they think you'll keep buying in the same numbers too).
>Investors don't give a shit about the people already buying a product
Investors like to make money and woke shit looses money. This is well known among investors now and they won't touch woke shit and CEO's won't either anymore since it opens them up to lawsuits over failing in their fiduciary duties to their investors. This means that adopting or pushing woke ideology is now seen as intentionally making a bad business decision.
I don't have a dog in this race because nobody should give a shit about female space marines, but you know he wouldn't dare call them "just bloody toy soldiers" if GW was still actively paying him to draw those toy soldiers as the badass warriors killing aliens the lore claims them to be. Just saying.
I mean sure, I'm not invested, but because I'm not invested I don't give them my money. It's weird that companies simultaneously expect you to not care enough to complain, but still care enough to buy 80 dollar miniatures.
As much of an overused meme as it is, that's where "Don't ask questions, just consume product and get excited for next products" comes from. It's why big companies love fans but despise their fanbase.
It's true, but it's something no creator should ever admit publicly. It destroys the value of a setting.
I mean, why should the reader care about the lore if the writer himself doesn't? If people pay you because they care about your thing, it's an awful idea to yell at them to stop caring.
The first part is definitely true given how as proven by this very thread if you so much as suggest Warhammer lore isn't the greatest thing since the bible 40kids will call you a leftist and a troony. I can't think of a more cancerous fanbase in sci-fi.
>literally anything happens to be all-male >WAAAAAAAAH THIS CAN'T BE ALLOWED WAAAAAGH MUH HECKIN FEMERINOS NEEEEEED TO BE INCLUDED ABLOOHOOO THEY JUST DO OKAY WAAAAAH THIS IS SEXISSSSSSSST WAAAAAH WAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAH
Boy this whole 'giving women the right to vote' thing is going great lol
>Boy this whole 'giving women the right to vote' thing is going great lol
Yeah it is, the countries where women can vote rule the world and the countries where women can't are shitholes
And yet countries where woman can vote, but the country has still has a conservative focused culture are thriving, and despite their actions showing them merely to be Trojan horses, dozens of western powers voted for more conservative governments.
I get it., you're an philosophical zombie with absolutely zero introspection but there is quite a clear different between troony worshipping marxist and Sharia Law demander. At least on paper.
You said women voting was bad and I showed women voting correlates with prosperous nations and now you're rambling about how you're actually right that women voting is bad because some countries women vote for conservatives and those countries are thriving? I think your brain is misfiring, none of what you're saying connects to the previous things you've said.
No. Most of them are either Republics, Constituonal Monarchies or Parliamentarian Republics.
None of them are Social Democracies, none of them arguably are really socialist because the means of production are firmly in the hands of government approved private owners or publically traded.
All Nordic countries are social democracies and welfare states. >a left-wing political ideology that advocates for a peaceful democratic evolution from laissez-faire or crony capitalism towards social capitalism sometimes also referred to as a social market economy. Social democracy opposes the full centralization of an economy as proposed by some socialists.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I live in a Nordic country and it is a neoliberal hellhole with all the politicians pursuing insane net zero policies that will destroy any hope of prosperity for future generations.
>if warhammer players can cope with continually changing rules, lists, bigger figures, and prices
What does he mean people complain about all of these all the time.
I always find it funny how in one breath these people will call the lore childish and stupid and then in the next view the lore as a good way to judge the beliefs and moral character of a person. I just want some consistency, am I a dumb manchild or an evil piece of shit for liking characters x, and z?
>I just want some consistency, am I a dumb manchild
Yes. Genuinely yes you are stupid for wanting consistency from warhammer, which has re-invented itself yearly for the past 40 years.
>uhm actually it doesn't matter and you're a manchild if you think it does >also I will sperg at length about you caring about this because obviously it matters and i'm actually a disingenuous c**t taking sides in favor of it
Discord invaders general I see.
Correct, the plastic toy lore doesn't matter all that much but it is concerning there are 40k fanboys who take it seriously and identify with it on a personal level and then get triggered whenever somebody suggests changing it despite it already having been changed several times.
Yeah see i'm not paying for female spess muhreens or any faction that has them.
If GW thinks they can live off mouthy twitteroids who've never paid retail for a whole army they've got another thing coming.
I've seen 3+ threads recently complaining about something similar thought that some thing recent went down, but then it might just be the usual reoccurring hate
Don't you understand? Clearly he is the smart and enlightened one for shitting on people's hobbies by calling them childish. While in turn sounding like a 12 year old who found out they can say curse words on the Internet.
It's a commercial IP, and if you change it than it's no longer what it was, so no. He's moronic. It would be like a guy asking why Star Wars fans are upset that some new special faction of Jedi show up and are now the focus of the setting or some other obnoxious and ghey marketing stunt.
GW could release female space marines tomorrow and there would be so much b***hing, so much outrage addiction driven engagement bait, effeminate histrionics, and general disingenuous, underhanded homosexualry, but a short time later the vast majority of those people that were already collecting would still be buying them.
GW simps are made to eat shit every day. Every all-too-soon edition churn, every bomb that's thrown into balance as soon as they start getting things right, the constant balance patches with MASSIVE changes. It's all designed to squeeze money from the whales. The game is dogshit, and people lap it up. The enormous fricking models are covered in doodads, because that's premium, and obscenely priced as a result. Not just because of that though, also as a big geeky thing they attract those starwars/marvel/etc soi types that gravitate towards the biggest eyepee in any nerd field like moths to a flame. Autists too deeply love them and are fanatically loyal because they can get dropped off at the store in mom's minivan and simply by shuffling around the store with a GW Caerrycayse they can get a pick up game with almost no meaningful human interaction.
The only reason why the fluff is such a huge issue is the sheer abundance of secondaries in the 40k fandom. There's a vast number more orbiters than players. No other wargame attracts the high proportions of hangers on.
not a 40kbro but no, he is moronic
t. needs to grow up a bit
im sorry you let strangers on the internet who hate you dictate how you enjoy your hobbies, not sure what "growing up" has to do with being a massive pussy
>WAAH, ME THROWING TEMPER TANTRUM OVER MY DOLLIES IS MATURE AND BASED! I DON'T NEED TO GROW UP, I DON WANNA!
Mkay, Peter Pan. You do you.
holy shit, get the hell out of here tourist lmao
t. 2016 vermin
>Twitter screencap
No one cares. Go back to X/Reddit
which vidyagame is this, anon?
Rogue Trader by Owlcat.
He's exactly correct.
>lol the lore and themes and aesthetics of the setting are unimportant just make it the same generic slop as everything else to pander to crybaby homosexuals on social media who are losing the culture war anyways
Awful take. Also what does he mean the lore doesn't "work", it works perfectly - it keeps SJW cancer c**ts seething.
>lol the lore and themes and aesthetics of the setting
You mean the stuff they ripped off from other writers and artists?
If a company doesn’t respect the lore what is the point of getting involved in 40K? 95% of the people that got into 40K was because of lore.
Anon. The company itself has proven it doesn't respect the fluff OR the rules, many many times over the years. It's always been up to the players to change what they don't like, and that's just one of the things you need to invest.
>If a company doesn’t respect the lore what is the point of getting involved in 40K?
To build the miniatures and play the game?
>95% of the people that got into 40K was because of lore.
Those loregays are moronic and don't understand warhammer is a game setting not a novel and things change between editions. They only know of warhammer because they saw a video essay for it while their mom left them alone on the iPad.
>To build the miniatures and play the game?
lets be real, 40k is an awful game with extremely average models propped up entirely by the setting. Finish shitting up the setting and theres literally no reason to play it
there's already no reason to play it besides being so lazy or unlikable you're stuck haunting stores for pick up games like a bad smell (probably the cause of it)
They won't understand because they cannot comprehend that the kind of obtuse, combative homosexuals that haunt Ganker like the ghost of gaming past are not a growth demo.This place is fricking irrelevant and all the posts here are just shouting into the void while thinking it is still fricking 2008.
You don't need to convince us that female Space Marines should be a thing. You need convince GeeDubs and they have shown no interest in catering to a demographic with over 40% suicide rate.
It's about money. If GW had the assurance they would sell, you can bet your bottom dollar they'd print Femarines faster than you can say Emperor of Mankind. But they don't. Sure, there's kitbashers (myself included) who do this. And as long as we use their stuff it's allowed (unless they changed the rules again, I haven't actually played in an official tourney since 2017, when I moved), but that's not a guarantee of sale.
As for the 40% suicide rate, it depends where. If you were told by your parents, your peers, and randos on the net that your existence is worthless and wrong, against God and be threatened abd beaten up, you'd rope yourself too. Here (not US) we don't give a shit. Suicide rate here is less than 2% of the populace, total. You want to frick men? Get fricked? Women fricking women? Get married? As long as you don't shove it down my throat, be my guest. No one cares.
Take the lore out of 40k and GW would be bankrupt in less than an hour
You see being paid for involvement doesnt make you an authority. You can be paid to paint the wall inside a bank, you don't get to decide how the bank handles the money in 30 years
And? Even if Gary Chalk was some literal who he would still be 100% correct. You act like 40k lore is the fricking bible when 90% of it is just ripped off from Judge Dredd.
moronic take. you haven't read either.
The sad thing is that trannies are pushing for female space marines so constantly that everyone knows that's what he's referring to without anyone even having to say it.
These people obviously don't actually care about 40k, they're just using it as another political battleground. Outsiders fricking something up for their ulterior agenda should always be opposed on principle, even if their idea wasn't horrendously fricking stupid to begin with, which it is.
Outsiders using the lore as a political battleground is a direct consequence of the fans using the lore as a political battleground.
First it started with Suffer Not the Furry to Live tbh, then it became about comparing Trump to the God Emperor, and by then everyone had collectively decided that 40k lore is a free-for-all political meme-generating machine.
You're a moron.
Nobody likes furries, telling them to frick off out of our setting is no different among 40k fans than anywhere else.
The trump memes were from reddit secondaries, not actual 40k fans.
You're a moron seething in denial. Or maybe you're just new
I'm probably the most oldgay 40k anon on this board to any regular degree. I've been around for it all. You're projecting the seething. Your original post honestly didn't even make much sense and I gave it more legitimacy than it deserved by even responding.
>the fans using the lore as a political battleground
It never was idiot, there's nothing political about making jokes about furries, what an absolute delusion
Oh so you are just new and lying, got it, I think it's best for you to go back to your twatter hug pile, /tg/ is not your safe space
You are trying way too transparently hard to use language that has been used against you. But it doesn't apply in the opposite context, snowflake. Get a grip lmao.
Dude, I been around here for longer then you have, and I am not one whom has to go to /tg/ as their safe space, thinking /tg/ will not make fun of you
this. the neckbeard incels were perfectly fine plastering trump everywhere but when it's the other side they screech NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LE WEST HAS COLLAPSED
Trump Derangement Syndrome
>The sad thing is that trannies are pushing for female space marines so constantly that everyone knows that's what he's referring to without anyone even having to say it
I know right. Anyway they are fighting a loosing battle as GeeDubs would have to retcon the entire Horus Heresy book series which would kill their IP. No matter how woke the leadership at GeeDubs becomes they will still have fiduciary duty to their investors who expect a handsome return on their investment.
>pushing for female space marines so constantly that everyone knows that's what he's referring to without anyone even having to say it.
What amazes me is that out of the ocean of these beggars it is only a few drops of water out of them that actually instead be bigger boys and just get female heads via third party, sororitas heads or 3D printed and just do a simple headswap and be content with that.
I think these people are what they say are "tourists."
It's because it isn't actually about having female space marines, to these people. It's about forcing female space marines in just as a "take that" to the "chuds". They don't care about the setting, they don't hobby, they don't play. You are 100% right except that what they are is even worse than tourists, because at least tourists are ignorant morons in good faith - they are activists with no intention of contributing anything of value to the community or hobby at all. It's just another space for them to try and invade and force to kneel to their woke ideology because they are aggressive cultural terrorists with an agenda.
I have never in my life seen someone crying about a lack of female space marines. I see you gays obsess about it all the time though.
>I have never in my life seen someone crying about a lack of female space marines.
You don't use Xitter then which is good. I unfortunately do because I like to follow artists and miniature painters and every now and then I get "those kinds" of Warhammer 40k posts.
>I see you gays obsess about it all the time though.
It's mostly towards the kind of people pushing for them instead of the actual female space marines. They care about 40k probably even more than GW and have seen what happened to other sci-fi franchises that have fallen like Star Trek, and Dr. Who. They don't want that happening to Warhammer 40k.
>It's about forcing female space marines in just as a "take that" to the "chuds".
In fairness to them they are actually targeting the correct chuds in the correct way this time. But being a stopped clock right in this one instance does not bode well for letting the movement have a moment.
My buddy owns a popular LGS and I swear having to listen to 30 yo incels pontificate about the greatness and "steel hard musculature" of space marines gets really fricking old. Especially when they inevitably dip into misogyny.
I doubt GW making femuhrines would have any real impact on the hobby, though. It'd just be one more thing for radicals to rub in the face of chuds.
Who cares? It's their hobby and free time. You sound extremely mad that your not allowed to control what people say.
Are you a pretend woman? Been called out too many times?
>Who cares? It's their hobby and free time. You sound extremely mad that your not allowed to control what people say.
No, I'm just tired of both sides.
>Are you a pretend woman? Been called out too many times?
No, just a guy who has had and regularly does have sex. You know, an ultramarine.
>trannies are pushing for female space marines
May I see them?
https://twitter.com/KeithLammia/status/1711969197893546188
Literally the thread that Gary Chalk was contributing to, dummy.
Ok fair enough
>don't actually care about (my idea of what) 40k (should be)
true i dont, i just want hot babes in every game
I will never fricking understand why anyone wants female space marines anyways.
>female marine thread
My thoughts exactly.
"People" who talk about "lore" (it's called fluff) should be wheeled out of their assisted living homes and shot.
If the "official" lore is no big deal, then it doesn't need changing. They can think up their own head canon while adjusting each others' dilators.
This.
If the lore doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter. It's just toy soldiers. It's all made up.
It's ok to let a black man cuck your wife, marriage isn't real, it's just invested.
Are you comparing a sacred rite binding two souls together in love to the lore of a miniature war game in terms of significance?
Correct take, as "lore" is a meaningless term made up by Youtube content creators.
Correct take. (If you actually play games.)
The was one con i went to years ago where the guy across the table from me made machinegun noises for his guard every shooting phase. I haven't been able to take wargaming seriously since then.
The fluff exists to give an excuse for your dudes to fight your mate's dudes. Otherwise, it's just toy soldiers.
It is just toy soldiers and being whinny b***h about them and trying to use em as your culture war battlefield is just deeply sad...it's sadder when you can filter them out by asking for their minis..So it's not dudes whom complain about toy soldiers, it's dudes pretending to play toy soldiers
>Trannies don't play
Oh you poor summer child....
Let me correct that.
Trannies don't play in any significant numbers compared to actual fans, especially in proportion to the number of them on twatter that b***h and whine about muh problematic no femarines etc horseshit.
Actually, the whinners that whine about trannies don't play in general, so no, trannies play a lot more by both number and proportion of fans they make up.
Delusional
>guy makes shit rules
>call them shit
>don't use them
>guy makes shit lore
>call it shit
>don't follow it
I don't see the problem
Nooo! You have to be emotional and complain when a company doesn’t do exactly what you want!! The brand must be your identity! Your identity is under threat and you must seethe online about it!
AAAAAH! THE ADVERT DESIGNED TO ENCOURAGE ME TO BUY TOY SOLDIERS ISNT REAL! MY WORLD IS DESTROYED!
why isn’t this corporate product exactly the way I want it to be!
But that's you. I'm not the one with the problem. You're the one seething about lack of female marines.
>Get woke go broke is real!!!
Unironically yes, kek. Even the top business sector is admitting it now.
>nooo you’re the one seething not me
Let’s not be delusional dude. We both see threads here everyday seething about GW nonstop. Half the generals are people passive aggressively bragging that “GW doesn’t get a penny from me”… in the fricking generals lol. People have intense emotional reactions to corporate products and it’s absolutely pathetic.
>make a corporate brand a part of your identity
>bad product comes out
>I am now personally offended that my identity is besmirched
>I will now seethe about it online
It’s endgame consooooomerism
Actual videogames are proof this is false, you can see conservatives seethe every day on vrpg
>Get woke go broke is real
It actually is real. Which is why ESG exists as a bailout.
>Which is why ESG exists as a bailout
Blackrock alone lost 13 trillion dollars on ESG. No serious investor that likes to make money will touch it. Adopting ESG has become a breach of a companies fiduciary duty to their investors at this point and all the ESG pushers are scrambling to distance themselves from it and rebrand to sustainability or some other nonsense.
>you're not allowed to care about things if they don't save lives
Weird opinion.
Given that Gary left GW in the 90s to make an alternative to WFB which immediately disappeared without a trace, I don't think they should be taking his business advice.
Lore means nothing. That's why my army of eldar and tau Space Marines who are praised by the Emperor revived himself as the beacons of light is valid
he's right in that there are concrete things that severely impact the quality of the hobby and gaming experience (release churn, constant rules and edition changes, scale creep), and GW's products are predatorily priced, and people still buy them anyway
not just that but people relentlessly dickride them in the most undignified fashion
the fluff's down the list of shit to be concerned about, but people still get really livid about it, just look at the borderline word salad posts itt. All that culture war shit bores the shit out of me, if i were an old man even more so
the guy mentioning cawl is nearly onto something, some guy we never heard of til 8th emerges from his goon cave after 10k years with gigga homie marines and all the primarchs are coming back, the fluff horse has bolted
Get out of my hobby, leftist mutant
how are you going to make me? stand in the door frame of your lgs spreading your musk?
>leftist
just because I'm not subscribed to your pissant culture war doesn't mean I'm in your out-group
your outrage addiction directly funds some of the worst pieces of shit to orbit the hobby, and most of them are on the left
made me laugh seeing them retweet gary chalk, what with what he thinks of modern gw and their simps
>your lgs spreading your musk?
god that got me horny. Blue board anon blue board!! mmmmmmm sniffysexsniffysex
>Musk
Nice Freudian slip, musky husky
it's not a Freudian slip, storeBlack folk are barely human freaks with a fear of bathing
if my local store wasn't run by a cashed up boomer as a hobby business the constant professional carpet cleaning would send them broke
Meanwhile the stores, and tourneys will still be attended by the pastiest men, like that boomer.
Yes, he's right but not for "muh toy soldiers" bullshit argument. The morale of the story is that if you keep buying shit you can't suddenly expect something different from a turd inside the package.
>this somehow justifies ruining beloved IPs for everyone including those who did none of those things
Not a good look for those people at all, anon. I hope you're not one of them. It's as I believe the slang goes "bad optics."
He doesn't have to. Friend good, enemy bad. Simple as.
>oldhammer/rogue trader era artist
literally who cares?
There's a hundred threads whining about how "woke" GW has become by having more and more black Marines and more emphasis on female characters. But now you're trying to tell me GW is suddenly a bastion of BASEDness that has been gatekept successfully by TRUE FANS in a pathetic attempt at feeling better about yourself in this argument. So transparently disingenuous.
What the frick even is a liberal?
In the field of social politics, a liberal is someone whose primary political concerns are civil rights. In economic politics, it's someone who advocates for a regulated, welfare-focused economy.
1. Making good art, like he has done in my opinion, indicates you know what you're talking about with regards to art and your home genres in general.
2. However, this isn't always true. Tolstoy, for example, was an amazing writer, but he has some batshit insane dogshit takes on writing.
3. Ultimately, their cred should be enough to get you to engage with their take seriously, but you're well within your right to say "I've thought about what you said, and it's dumb as frick".
4. I completely agree that lore can and should be changed if there's a good reason to. I disagree that the story behind 40k is less important because it's toyish, however. Toys are a valid form of art.
He just rolled a zero on 40kids
That's a Joe Dever piece of art right?
Lone Wolf?
Yes, it's from the 2nd book but it's by Gary Chalk not Joe Dever. Joe Dever is the author of lone wolf not an illustrator.
Fun fact: Lone Wolfs setting is from Joe's own dnd games and the battle of maakengorge took place in his basement.
>the battle of maakengorge took place in his basement.
Ah! I did not know that.
I remember playing them all (or I think) up to book 22 or 24, not too sure. The desert one, 6 I think, was the second book I red at 7 after the Hobbit. Thanks for the comfy memories.
why isn’t this corporate product exactly the way I want it to be!
That's literally your stance lmao
You can easily ignore primarch lore or pretend it's still the 41st millennium before the imperium got split. You can even potentially ignore shit like Votanns or Sisters of Silence because they have limited relevance and no one plays those, or pretend your crons are still oldcrons.
You can't ignore shit like Primaris or Female Marines however, because they will feature prominently in the game and the promotional material. Might as well try to pretend the Tau don't exist.
It could always be changed so primaris are gone in future editions, just like he said.
Brothers of Silence and Brothers of Battle when?
Big tiddy Ork gf when? I mean why do all Orks have to be boyz? Where are the Ork Girlz?
>lookin fer sumfink
Yes please
>Yes please
Haha its just a Runtherd with mammary squigs surgically attached to his chest that he uses to force feed terrified Grotz.
Fluff, lore, whatever you want to call it, is the connective tissue between every other aspect of a gaming experience. It's not the most important thing, but if it's not held up to some degree of consistency then you might as well use whatever miniatures you want, or whatever rules you want, there doesn't need to be any reason for why anyone is fighting or why they're there in the first place.
It's not immutable, but it's not changeable without good reason either. GW don't care about the second part and just change shit willy-nilly, hence why their product is garbage.
His point about revising the lore is probably based on a desire to change things to modern taste which is probably going to be a detriment to the setting’s aesthetics. So he’s wrong there.
He’s absolutely right that 40k lorehomosexuals need to grow up. 40k is the only tabletop game ever that has secondaries in the way it does (whfb does a bit but that only began with total warhammer and isn’t anywhere near as severe ) and their desires have actively contributed to the game’s continued decline (not that it was ever a shining beacon on a hill for good game design it’s fundamentally a bit mediocre). Much worse than that is the fact that being so obsessed with any pop cultural property is first a symptom and then a cause of cultural decline and infantilisation, 40K is now to right-wing culture war people what Harry Potter was to left-wing culture war people before J.K. Rowling triggered them. It’s also what Star Wars was/is to Gen X. Though I find 40k obsession more disturbing than those because young men who think that they are somehow preserving aspects of western culture (which would be very good) are actually memorising trivia from an enjoyable pastiche setting (which is sad). Read some classics, learn an instrument, go to church, exercise, enjoy the great outdoors. Don’t stop playing or enjoying 40k but it’s not healthy to internalise pop culture franchises into your identity
>Don’t stop playing or enjoying 40k but it’s not healthy to internalise pop culture franchises into your identity
This applies to more than just 40k. This applies to basically any kind of pop culture or entertainment media franchise.
I often ask myself whether I love the 40k setting/lore a bit too much from time to time.
>Much worse than that is the fact that being so obsessed with any pop cultural property is first a symptom and then a cause of cultural decline and infantilisation
How so? Genuinely asking. If anything it's more likely a sign that it has reached a new height.
>40K is now to right-wing culture war people what Harry Potter was to left-wing culture war people before J.K. Rowling triggered them.
I'll be real with you. I found Harry Potter political analogies absolutely hilariously bad and likewise 40k political analogies absolutely hilariously bad. I just saw Harry Potter political analogies first, and to be honest they taught me that anybody who needs fictional media to comprehend real world politics shouldn't have an opinion on them.
>This applies to more than just 40k. This applies to basically any kind of pop culture or entertainment media franchise.
Yes that’s why I generalised the statement and referenced both Harry Potter and Star Wars
>How so? Genuinely asking. If anything it's more likely a sign that it has reached a new height.
Not a decline of the property, a decline of culture broadly. If people are obsessed with pop culture franchises it probably means they’re not sufficiently exposed to art or mainstay cultural phenomena with more depth. Then once they’re obsessed with the pop culture franchise, they’re less likely to take interest in those more worthy things instead. I’m not being that condemning, I’ve had the same problem before, especially as a child (with Star Wars and lotr) and teenager (a little with 40k but more with elder scrolls), but that’s how I know that it’s so empty compared to higher art and religion
>I found Harry Potter political analogies absolutely hilariously bad and likewise 40k political analogies absolutely hilariously bad.
I wouldn’t claim that the issue is universal in 40k fans, but it’s relatively common and is only the most extreme form of the problem. I never made the political analogies myself and I’m sure many don’t either, but many people do.
I never said warhammer wasn't a hyper-masculine setting. You seem to be strawmanning me.
The premise of your post was that aesthetics don't matter.
They really don't when the settings lore is just an adhoc justification for people to use your miniatures in a game.
female Space Marines would be a slap in the face to the fans and you know it.
nobody mentioned female space marines except you
Personally, I'm not completely against the idea of female space marines, I'm just against the inevitable baggage that comes with it. Logically, there would be little to physically differentiate them since they'd all be modified children. But even more importantly, space marines are heavily discouraged from deviating from certain standards. Even if their was physiological differences, what does it even mean to be a woman when you're expected to eat, breath, sleep, and shit war in the exact same way as every other marine in your chapter? Do you think people who are pushing for female space marines would be fine with it if the only difference is some marines would be called "sister" instead of "brother" instead? I don't think so.
>Do you think people who are pushing for female space marines would be fine with it if the only difference is some marines would be called "sister" instead of "brother" instead? I don't think so.
I mean, it's what I want, and I honestly think it's what most people who'd like to see female space marines want - it's why I've never understood the absolute opposition to it.
Sure, there are people like you but I've grown very jaded over the years. I'm in a "if you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask for a glass of milk," type mindset.
I never cared much for space marines but nominally they're supposed to be warrior monks and monks are typically male. Of course this is betrayed by the fact that every space marine chapter has its own gimmicks that don't fit in with that description.
People like you might be, but people in your cult won't, and they'll sooner expell you and claim you are a traitor against them the second you stop being a useful idiot to them.
Why do you want it? If nothing really changes why crusade for it so hard? Nothings stopping me from going all my Kriegers or whatever are actually female much like you doing the same for marines. Whats wrong with SoB then? You guys are literally a virus
the opposition to it is that it would be incongruous with the setting. if you could go back to pre-1990 and write in that the space-marining process didn't care about sex, or do a new setting with same, then fine. you have female space marines no problem. the issue here is that you've got a setting where (a) there have always been male-only space marines for >10,000 years, and (b) the imperium doesn't do progress; the whole setting is built on the idea of humanity being in its twilight years, the imperium a shambling corpse fallen far from its golden years with no future except surviving another day and getting a little worse. having female marines suddenly "appear" would be every bit as bone-headed as resurrecting primarchs or adding primaris marines.
They'd argue about primaris forgetting the lore of the primaris us they're basically a few extra organs the emperor designed mid crusade and gave a wacky scientist visions i how to implement them.
But there's nothing in the lore saying Primaris can never exist, though, just that it would be extremely difficult to modify the Emperor's genetic engineering.
Frick, Fabius Bile already did it when he was modifying Fulgrim's geneseed.
We have dozens of citations from lore stating explicitly that female space marines can't happen, full-stop, no debate.
>DND changes lore between editions
Damn some of this stuff is moronic but as a tabletop game I'm free to change whatever I want as I see fit or run the lore from the old editions
>Warhammer changes lore between editions
REEEEEE EVERYTHING IS RUINED FOREVER! *seethes about muh newcrons and muh primaris for the next decade*
I'm not bothered by most arguments, but the one that gets me is always "that thing fricking sucks and is for gay kids anyway so just let us frick with it chud".
Like the sheer bare-faced contempt for the original thing and its community and completely undisguised ulterior motives is disgusting. They're the types who aren't even intelligent enough to come up with an excuse as to why you need to accept what they want.
Those types of people were most likely bullied as kids and as adults are now spending it ruining things for everyone to spite the chuds that live rent free in their heads birthed by said bullying from their childhoods. Their buttholery in their minds completely justified no matter what. Ironically they're no better than the bullies that mistreated them.
In this case they probably go in and knowingly downgrade franchises with bad writing to own the boogeymen and those who didn't do anything get caught in the crossfire.
Really all they're doing is creating x-phobes/x-phobics and making their communities/those alike them look bad by just being themselves.
Does this contradict GW's reasoning behind the shift to monopose miniatures? IIRC one of the designers at GW said one of the reasons behind the change in poses and sculpts is cause while they encouraged creativity, too many people were making "your dudes" from the ground up which clashed with the rules and the game itself.
Of course he's right. They're glorified green army men, not the works of Shakespeare.
Arguing about the lore of any Games Workshop product is the height of insanity. At that point, go outside and dunk yourself in a river. You have to be legitimately autistic to take any of this shit seriously.
>You have to be legitimately autistic to take any of this shit seriously.
In hell. The answer to your question is hell.
>hell is an area full of autists.
You're not wrong tbh. Bring back stigmas and bullying
>Seething pedo angry AI replaced him, all 3 of his games were in the red fails and now needs to fellate politics cucks
Many such cases, especially among failed art school rejects.
taking a break from making new ai "art" generals every time they get halfway to the bump limit?
>projecting insecurity that a tool can replace you
Thank you for proving only the likes of you or referenced failed artist care about a tool and will project your insecurity through political shitting.
It literally doesn't matter, you could make all space marines female right now. It would be a hallow victory for blue haired women with daddy issues, and a huge nothing burger for anyone playing the latest Meta-hammer tournaments.
why?
Because fantasy and 40k doesn't retcon and when GW tries the players ignore it.
The lore with each edition. so all the crews that play 2nd ed, 3rd ed 40k, rogue trader etc, would just go 'whatever, this edition doesn't have primaris, it doesnt have females, YOUR version does, have fun with that.
It's EXACTLY the same way that fantasy players talk about their editions, they know lore changes and they just ignore it; "no thats not in 6th, thats its 8th", or 3rd ed grogs saying "no, slann are 40k frogs lost in the oldworld and cold ones are from underground caves, not from lustria", or "dwarves have wizards".
change it, nogame, nomodel b***hes will rush out and buy some funkopops and update their insta, one or two fat beardy c**ts will make some REALLY lewd marines, and then theyll go back to chasing the meta.
There is a simple solution: Waraxe 41K, now with alternatively living Empress of Womankind that has a democratically chosen cool and badass government officials that fight the battles for inclusivity by the way of unopposed monologues with mandatory clapping afterwards. But it's a new IP doomed for oblivion, because the proposed changes are truly not worth anything.
I'm more annoyed with the people who whine about X bullshit needing to be "canon" instead of just creating OC Your Dudes and being done with it.
Female Space Marines soon btw
>thing x is for everyone
>if you don't like this new real-world political agenda you will not be missed
Why is it always the same.
>new real-world political agenda
Nothing new about "Nazi punks frick off"
HH 2nd edition was released after that and contains lore stating there are only male Space Marines and that the gene-seed only works on males so who are they really not missing here eh?
>contains lore
Did you read the OP post? It's the next step. The window is shifting. Delusional (or subversive) to say it isn't.
Why do you think there's a push to ignore le geneseed lore?
There isn't? The owlcat game even directly references this.
That game itself breaks with established lore. The devs said they were banned from allowing the player to sexo the sister (they asked) because of muh lore but there's several examples of sisters getting FRICKED by guardsmen and what have you. So the argument still holds. MUH 40k lore is meaningless.
>What amazes me is that out of the ocean of these beggars it is only a few drops of water out of them that actually instead be bigger boys and just get female heads via third party, sororitas heads or 3D printed and just do a simple headswap and be content with that.
People try to do that and are immediately mogged by dipshits like you shrieking "YWNBAW" and "Wrong colors for a Slaanesh chapter." So apparently painting your own minis and posting them is enough to get anti-wokies REEEEEEEEEEing.
The developers came out and said that piece of dialogue was from an early build and removed.
>Big tiddy Ork gf when? I mean why do all Orks have to be boyz? Where are the Ork Girlz?
Games Workshop already has them you dumb bastard
https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/006/757/057/large/quentin-renaud-orc01.jpg?1501019785
Besides, Orks are asexual and IDENTIFY AS MALE. Nothing is stopping them or you identifying your army as female and painting them as such. Hell, the novel Brutal Kunnin' had a discussion on this.
Imagine being such a philosophical zombie that you cannot grasp anything outside of your narrow political world view.
Imagine being so intellectually impotent that you read my responses as having a political world view.
Make me, you dumb c**t. You're just as powerless to make me leave as you are to stop GW from changing the lore. You have as much influence as that idiot who burned his Wood Elves army when Age of Sigmar became a thing
Imagine coming into someone's house, acting in a way contrary to the customs of the house, and then being a smug c**t about not just leaving when you're clearly not welcome.
They do. You're just arguing like a moron. Or trying to argue change for arbitrary politics is good. It's not.
Show me anywhere in my comments where I argued for female space marines, you dumb c**t. Me mocking you homosexuals for screeching about it and proving that GW doesn't treat its lore like a sacred cow isn't supporting them.
You're arguing the change would automatically be good. Ergo you're defending that argument.
Maybe it's that people like you don't belong here, never belonged here, and should just leave and not post any more.
>Games Workshop already has them you dumb bastard
SPACE ORKZ you dumbass. Where are the SPACE ORK Girlz you dunbass.
>Nothing is stopping them or you identifying your army as female and painting them as such
There are no official big tiddy SPACE ORK models dumbass. Why doesn't GeeDubs cater to my fetishes WAAH!!!
Look at this homosexual melt down when his strawman is blown away.
Orks literally all look the same with minor facial differences. They don't have any biological sex but refer to each other with masculine pronouns.
>Why doesn't GeeDubs cater to my fetishes WAAH!!!
Says the nut gargler mocking people that don't want all Space Marines to be asexual, male-presenting, masculine pronoun eunuchs. Sounds like you've got some kind of big bear man sterility fetish. What a homosexual.
>Look at this homosexual melt down when his strawman is blown away
Its literally how the woke justify their demands for female Space Marines.
>waah waah its not enough for me to be able to convert models for my headcanon chick supersoldier fetish
If something is canon you can buy the models off the shelf, see tutorials about painting those models, play against those models, read stories and see art about those models, etc.
Well yes and that is the point of their demands. They don't want their chick supersoldiers to be just their headcanon. Its supposed to be official canon and telling them no invokes the kind of anger you would expect from the kind of raging narcissists which they are.
As already stated, you illiterate imbecile, they get harassed and bullied for that too, so why bother stopping there. You anti-woke idiots are so sensitive that even the sight of kit-bashed or painted female space marines causes you to screech autistically at them.
What a weak ass response. GW isn't your house. It's a company originally made up of left-wing reactionaries mocking and stealing from Thatcherite Britain and dystopian fiction. They've changed the lore countless times since Rogue Trader and established both quite early and again recently that the "lore" is unreliable and contradicting it is basically company policy (ie the Lost Primarchs).
Also, what kind of weak ass homosexual are you that you honestly equate some voices online about a fricking model company to someone physically being in your personal residence? Why is your sense of self-identity so tied up in a game that clearly doesn't care about your feelings? Enjoying it is one thing, acting like it changing is a personal attack reeks of low-test energy. These people are kit-bashing their own shit and playing it at game stores. You'd know that if you actually left the house instead of screeching at shadows
>GW was mid level left wing in the 80s so they need to have trannie marines.
Protip: trannoids are insulted because most of them are loud obnoxious cretins whose pussy worship became their entire persona and are rightfully mocked for being the horrible scarred mounds of egotism, chemical imbalances and mental health problems they are.
Just because the current left in the US is obsessed with victim martyrdom doesn't mean even the left wing support these Mongoloids
>>I don't have an actual rebuttal, so I'll strawman your statement to sound smart
Achieve a proper number of chromosomes, you slope-headed moron. Again, show me anywhere in my comments where I argued for female space marines, you dumb c**t. Me mocking you homosexuals for screeching about it and proving that GW doesn't treat its lore like a sacred cow isn't supporting them.
Again, show me anywhere in my comments where I argued that change is good. Me mocking you homosexuals for screeching about it and proving that GW doesn't treat its lore like a sacred cow isn't supporting them.
Repeating phrases is a sign of someone either mentally impared or angered at opposition. I'm not screeching, my posting style is clearly half arsed, meanwhile you are trying to cram as many insults as you can into your posts but lack any actual argument.
You my friend, are mad. y u mad?
So you don't have any evidence that I support FSM and have to rely on flimsy conjecture to save face?
I'm calling you out on simply being mad that you were proven to be a castigating little shit who is trying to save face and pretend to be the edgy cool insult thrower and not the clown who is trying to argue for stupid opinions.
Again, present me where I "argued for stupid opinions." I've been accused that either I'm pro-FSM or supporting, and no one can seem to prove it. Sounds like you're a bunch of idiots who don't appreciate being called out.
Arguing that people are stupid for arguing against something is taking the side of the thing they are arguing against anon. Are you an ESL or something?
I am not the same person, I personally think Women vote more unironically for protectionism and for safety nets and while not bad things, it is these things that are causing issues in the west as they weight under the weight of human refuse.
Women voting is fine, I find their choices questionable.
>I find their choices questionable.
People will make questionable choices, but as with democracy in general, the benefits outweigh the downsides. It's better for a population to have buy in and be able to mitigate poor government decisions even if they don't always make the optimal ones. The alternative is an autocrat who decides they don't really believe in agriculture and half the country starves to death.
I'm talking about Ganker you moron. I'm not even reading the rest of your wordvomit beyond that.
You think Ganker is YOUR HOUSE? Holy shit. You should check the microwave, I think your diapers are done.
It's certainly not yours.
Never claimed it was. Got any more scathing repartee? I'm getting bored.
Leave and never come back. You're unliked and unwanted. I imagine these traits carry over into real life as well.
Or what? You'll have more shitty arguments?
that people are stupid for arguing against something is taking the side of the thing they are arguing against anon. Are you an ESL or something?
Mocking people for their shitty arguments =/= arguing that people are stupid for arguing. I can't believe you actually think that's what's going on.
Besides, if I WERE an ESL, that just makes it look WORSE that you idiots can't refute anything I've said on the topic.
>>Yet you are in his house, trying to dictate what he should think.
Ganker's not his house, window-licker. It's a publicly-accessed website. No wonder you shit your pants about FSM, your perceptions reality are fricking stupid.
have a nice day
>>have a nice day
Make me, you impotent child.
Your botched GRS will do the job for me.
>>Oh no! He's making me look like a dumbass! I better call him a troony!
Trannies and morons like you can both get fricked. Try again, you pants-shitting moron.
Yet you are in his house, trying to dictate what he should think.
>they get harassed and bullied for that too, so why bother stopping there
Narcissists are the ones who bully and fly into a rage when denied.
See, the point where you just replying the small sentences of a flimsy deflective insult prove you have no real meat to your argument. People have proven the change is arbitrary and exists only to stroke the egos of a small politically prvileged class and you're angry at that.
You've tried to argue this entire thread that we're somehow bad guys for not yielding to the shitty ideas of left wing gender politics, and that a group of overly sensitive neurotic idiots should be coddled lest their mountains of mental issues cause a landslide of their own design.
My argument is that I have a zero tolerance policy vs narcissists and will tell them no on principle.
At this point I genuinely think you don't know what a narcissist.
"I do not like changes for political reasons and twitter clout" is not a particularly narcissist stance.
Woke causes attract people with dark triad traits. And making everything about YOU is a narcissistic trait and so is freaking the frick out when you are told NO.
are the ones who bully and fly into a rage when denied.
So, how you guys react when trannies and women paint and kit bash female space marines?
I find it tacky and rather pathetic in the same way painting marines in obvious nation flag colours is rather distasteful.
It's not a labour of Hobbyism but a pathetic attempt to virtue signal and justify their IRL choices through plastic artwork.
I don't care beyond if it looks good or not.
>Warhammer is for everyone
>Except if you're poor
Sadly the Lego Company research that female custom requires an absurd degree of self inserting and bending the story around their own banal bullshit has led to companies trying to make their existing settings bland slop instead of making separate lines that would appeal.
He implies it as does his conversation partner.
And that's stupid from any perspective: watering down your setting to get femoids will only provide money in the short term. They chase fads and all of history has noted them as being flighty and capricious. Give them a few years and they won't even remember having been a consoomer for your brand, much less bringing in continual money. Meanwhile you alienate the actual die-hards who'll take out a second mortgage to buy mint-condition Bionicles.
Of course, the above b***hing only applies to companies that are legitimately trying to maintain profitability rather than ones on-board with social engineering and removing all feelings of joy and connection.
>Meanwhile you alienate the actual die-hards who'll take out a second mortgage to buy mint-condition Bionicles.
Mind you a lot of the aspergerian males who do that, have AT LEAST 30+% chance of turning Trans and maybe a 60% chance of those surviving.
You ever seen the shape-rotation IQ tests for the different sexes and transes? MTFs register as *More* male than men.
>This statement was released over 3 years ago
>Not a single follow-up from the company, no attempt to make Warhammer 'for everyone'
>The words haven't been repeated by a single GW staffer in any publication, stream or WarCom article
>It's as if the blog post that made the statement doesn't exist at all
Usually when a company stands by something, they tend to make it known somehow instead of bringing it up once in a blog post and then never mentioning it again.
Mind if I share an argument I came up with?
This isn't what I actually believe, it's just an idea that I've been rolling around in my head that I wanted to bounce off other people.
Maybe there aren't any female space marines because space marines are sexist?
What I mean by that is that most space marine chapters like to recruit from planets with strong warrior cultures. Maybe these planets forbid women from trying to become space marines, or the space marines on their end, hailing from these cultures themselves (and because space marine amnesia is dumb), won't accept women as aspirants.
It might also be because the recruiting process; A. Only picks the top *percentage* of candidates. (For the more civilized chapters this involves recruiting based on physical scoring. For the less civilized chapters this involves locking two aspirants in a room with a knife and telling them only one is allowed to leave). B. Is incredibly brutal (Most chapters have some kind of trial which involves dropping an aspirant on a death world with nothing but the clothes on their back and a slap on the ass.)
So it's not that female space marines are impossible because of geneseed, or that they're indistinguishable from male space marines, it's just that they're 1-in-1000000 rare. and since there should only be ~10000 space marines between the 9 main loyalist space marine chapters, they just never show up.
Of course, this applies less-so to chaos space marines, who don't have to even pretend to care about the codex astartes, and can choose to go full quantity over quality and simply recruit as many space marines as they can logistically handle. Although they also might still have to be at least partially selective when recruiting so the overall quality of their geneseed doesn't decrease to the point that it becomes unusable. And you could argue that the process to become a chaos space marine from a baseline human could be even more brutal than that for loyalist space marines.
Although on a more meta note, If you want a woman in power armor for your chaos faction, you aren't stuck with just the sisters of battle like the loyalists, you can make a demon prince or a champion of chaos, so you don't really need female csm's anyways.
And none of this applies to the alpha legion, who can only recruit alpharius
Thinking about this some more, mind if I share another thought?
Maybe female space marines isn't just about "Muh wokeism" it's about aesthetic wholeness. 40k is already a super diverse setting and this is just a weird blind spot that nobody can give a good explanation for why it's there.
There are already female assassins, female guard, female inquisitors, female psykers, female mechanicus, female knights, female rogue traders and female gangers so it's weird that there are no female space marines or equivalent.
>The Sisters of battle
A. The sisters of battle are not "female space marines", they're "nuns with guns" it's completely different and you know it.
B. The sisters of battle suck ass. I can name all 18 space marine chapters off the dome and describe their differences in tactics and aesthetics. You could describe to me a space marines gear without any mention of color scheme or chapter markings and I could reliability guess what chapter they belong to. Can anyone do the same for the sisters of battle orders?
why can't they be monks with guns too?
That is a good fricking question.
I don't fricking know and it makes me sad.
40k style buddhist monks that worship the emperor and do chainsword kung-fu when?
I mean the technical lore reason is that the ecclesiarchy cannot "maintain any """men""" under arms." but still
why cant they be a side faction?
Crusaders have a super cool lore, they're like some super swordmens from orders and schools of power sword fencing
serving for the ministorum.
sounds more like death cultists
Monks with gunks
>B. The sisters of battle suck ass. I can name all 18 space marine chapters off the dome and describe their differences in tactics and aesthetics. You could describe to me a space marines gear without any mention of color scheme or chapter markings and I could reliability guess what chapter they belong to. Can anyone do the same for the sisters of battle orders?
Hmm, the "women in power armor" faction doesn't seem to be doing well... I know, we'll retcon the extremely popular "men in power armor" faction to have women! Genius.
>People ask for women in power armor.
>Make them worse than the men in power armor.
>People ask why we can't just have the men in power armor, but with women.
>Sperg out
Truely a mind melting predicament.
>>Make them worse than the men in power armor.
Time to make the males worse too, then - a logical conclusion from the resident troon
>Implying that what makes the sob worse than the sm is "muh wamen" and not that they get 1/100th of the attention from gw.
x being bad is not the same thing as x being worse than y
the sororitas ARE fine, they just literally do not have the same depth as the astartes.
If you want to get into 40k, regardless of what you think is "cool" the sm will have something for you or, at the very least, you can homebrew a successor chapter.
If you want to get into sob for that 'badass women in power armor" aesthetic. but you don't want nuns with guns, you're SOL. They do the nuns with guns aesthetic perfectly fine, but that's all they do. That's like if the only space marine chapter was ultramarines. Perfectly serviceable, but fricking boring.
You can have nuns with swords, nuns with hallebards, nuns with maces, nuns with wings. There is plenty of ministorum units to add. They should develop and update old ministorum units.
Comparing with SM, many chapter variations are mostly the same. Different shoulderpads and color, sometimes "different tactics in lore", it's mostly the same in Adepta sororitas orders.
Finally, GW will never put as much work they've made into SM to any other faction, they're too lazy.
You can homebrew your sister order too, it was well made in V9.
+ I got it, you have some big variants with SM, salamanders, wolves ect, with extra human abilities to spice it up, and there is none with Sororitas. Maybe that what you like with Spaces Marines.
For me it's mostly an aesthetic difference. If I want space marines but vikings, I have the space wolves, If I want space marines but arthurian knights, I have the dark angels. If I want guardsmen but ww1, I have the kriegers, if I want guardsmen but rambo, I have the catachans, if I want sisters but I don't want catholic nuns, I can go frick myself.
Because Catholic Nuns are cool.
all of the things listed are cool, and plenty of things that arent listed are also cool
>I can go frick myself
Please do.
So convert them, make onna bushi SoB or something, GW won't do shit to explore anything other than muh marines so you must make /yourdudettes/ happen on your own.
>That's like if the only space marine chapter was ultramarines
this would be an improvement
Sororitas are fine. Being "worser than the brand favorite faction who get almost all the love from the devs" isn't a proof of being bad.
No. People are demanding female space marines.
They had female space marines. They didn't sell.
That's your reason they don't exist now.
The people clamouring for female space marines now can have them. The lore is bullshit and not authoritative. If you want female space marines, you can model them and make your own lore up. It's literally that easy.
However, the people who say they want female space marines are one of the following;
>Trannies who want trannies in the fluff
>Non gamers who want the company to provide them something they still won't buy, for diversity reasons
There's no reason for gw to kowtow to these demands because it won't generate more income for them
>Release like two models in the 90's of, not even female space marines, just mercenaries. Literally just women in power armor; basically just proto-sob, minus the nun aesthetic.
>These whopping two models get a resounding "meh" from the six people who played warhammer back then.
>The people have clearly spoken, the "true fans" DESPISED female space marines. This TERRIBLE idea is an affront to the SOUL of warhammer and must never be attempted, EVER again.
Has it ever crossed either of your minds that this started as a genuine line of question "why are there no female space marines besides fake lore". and then someone just came along and simply stapled "trannies/coomers/essjaydoubleu's want this" without any kind of substantiation to shut down the argument by tying it to the culture war, but instead of shutting it down this just agitates more people; who are genuinely curious, but the only answer they seem to find is.
>REEEEEE
>TRANNIES
>REEEEEE
Like, why are you like this? I don't do this for you. I don't assume you hate female space marines because you're chuds. Your argument is actually very straight forward. It was fine before, so why change it? So why can't I get further answers besides >Muh trannies ?
>fake lore
It's all fake, it's all made up. But to change it at this point just makes the setting even less internally consistent than it already was. For 40 years the fluff has been that only dudes can be marines. Why change it instead of making something new. If you want women super soldiers in power armor fighting demons from the sex dimension, nobody's stopping you. Just don't call it 40k
Thread Dying
In a rush
TLDR
You roll your eyes when people say "the lore changes all the time" but it's true. So this is a weird hill to die on, I believe you have an ulterior motive (which is fine, by the way. You don't have to be a staunch traditionalist to oppose female space marines, you can just believe that they'll suck. But don't hide your actual argument behind a different, unrelated argument), so I just straight up don't believe you when you say "this is the way it's always been"
And also I don't think that's even true, I thought way back when: a space marine used to just be a dude in power armor and geneseed didn't even exist.
Unironically that female space marines are dumb and gay. that's it. No idpol bullshit, none of us pretending we care about the old lore, things are good if they're good and bad if they're bad, and say that even with good writers, female space marines would be executed poorly.
Granted, I'd disagree. But that's the nature of the internet. You can still make a better argument than screeching about trannies and hoping enough people buy into your idpol.
>So this is a weird hill to die on, I believe you have an ulterior motive
I don't see you protesting for female orks because Orks aren't a predominant figure for the company and that is revealing for your motives as a whole.
A. Orks being a fungus is cooler than orks having men and women. So literally the argument that im advocating for. Say thing is dumb because it's dumb, and not because of muh idpol.
B. Orks actually are what we pretend space marines are. Excessively masculine. Space marines showcase the full range of humanity, so it's weird that none of them are women. Orks live for fighting and Killin, they don't really need that kind of range.
C. Actually, why the frick not? Orks are fun and goofy. It'd be neat if we had female characters in w40k that matched that energy.
D. And we already have spots in lore for females to fill that ork niche. Digganobz, gangers, penal legions and maybe some of the goofier cultists
>And we already have spots in lore for females to fill that ork niche
SoB fill the FSM neiche, or wait no thry don't according to you; So these don't fill it either hypocrite.
>Orks actually are what we pretend space marines are. Excessively masculine. Space marines showcase the full range of humanity
You can't be excessively masculine and still have a full range of humanity too? That's a moronic take
>Orks being a fungus is cooler than orks having men and women. So literally the argument that im advocating for.
And what's written now is cooler than what you're proposing from head cannon and has been for 30+ years. Maybe that's why this skub has died on the BL written room floor.
>Female digganobz don't fill the female ork niche
You just made an argument for female orks then? I was trying to make a point that we don't have to put wamen™ in everything. Fsm are just a specific edge case. If you disagree good for you, more women all across the board is cool too I guess.
>you can't be excessively masculine and have the full range of humanity
Literally yes
You cant be a hypermacho cartoon character and simultaneously meaningfully reflect on the human condition. Unless you're being hyper macho as a form of satire.
>and what is written now is cooler than what you're proposing from head cannon.
There it fricking is! It took us a whole thread but we got there. Now... can you explain your logic please? How does space marines being only men make for better stories than both male and female space marines?
>why do things have to change?
Because tzeentch was right, why do they not have to change? It's kind of dumb that we should default to change or not change, rather than good or bad
But no seriously
>fundamentally incompatible with the basis of the setting
Oh look, the other good argument!
What do you mean by fundamentally compatible/why do you believe fsm are fundamentally incompatible with warhammer's setting?
Normally this would be the prompt that we'd use to get stuck in, but the threads dead. So I guess just work on answers to those questions so you can come out swinging next time one of these threads pops up.
Why do things have to change? Battletech has always been humans only, and there's always been some people who really want aliens to show up, but the game has never added them because they're fundamentally incompatible with the basics of the setting
If it was a genuine line of questioning you would get mad and call things 'fake lore' when people offer a rebuttal.
You do nothing but insult people and even in this very post you attack others for seeing you for the idpol obsessed agitator you are.
Nothing we reply you to will convince you otherwise, you are not here to talk about the hobby. You are here to be a c**t.
Alright anon. What line if reasoning would you consider to be fair for me to argue down against the inclusion of female space marines?
It's easy as there is less.
Sorry was meant for >90603010
Disney is losing money because the lost ESPN in india, nobody gives a shit about your EGS shit outside of Ganker
>lore doesn't matter they are toy soldiers
>no you must bend to my political will!!!
Can't have both.
>it's just silly toy soldiers it doesn't matter!
>but it's utterly vital it be changed for the future of humanity
These people's basic operating system is Cognitive Dissonance v1.175.
Where did he say they have to bend to his political will?
Where he demands a change just for demographic representation, which is always political in nature.
Where did he demand this?
On the post in OP where he says it should change you obtuse twitter trannoid
He doesn't specify what changes should be made
I asked him and he said he demands more big boobied robots.
Where he demands change agreeing in response to a specific change.
Is Gary chalk the guy who made mantic aka pound land WHFB?
No. Genuinely why would you think that?
90588412
>noooo why isn’t this corporate product exactly the way I want it to be!
That's rich coming from you, idiot.
Curious how politics obsessed neckbeards who got into warhammer through video essays and dawn of war memes claim to be "truer fans" of warhammer than a guy who has been in the British tabletop games industry since the 80s. These mental patients don't actually like warhammer they like the super edgy version of it that exists only in their head and reddit memes. We're led to believe that warhammer is like a novel that tells a continuous story by them and that the lore is something that can't change when it reality its been retconned several times by GW with shit like the 13th black crusade and squats being completely rewritten. If GW wants female space marines in their game I'm sure they'll find a way to make it work.
>If GW wants female space marines in their game I'm sure they'll find a way to make it work.
There it is.
Or they don't and there is nothing wrong with that
Curious how twitter morons get angry at something being men only.
Whoever wants fsm is just a autogynephile troony in the making.
your friend and those furries are smarter than you
Gary the lore, the game is paid for, and the new Lore sucks. Its absolute trash. The product is junk and its something we paid and pay for. Get serious.
Great artist but when I see stuff like this it's bascially saying we need more homosexuals and blacks in the setting
the setting needs hot babes kissing, only a homosexual would disagree tbh
Frick off troon
why are you gay?
They take the CAR-ROT
Based and correct
Only morons would cuck themselves to the "lore"
People who adopt some agnostic "it's just lore bro why do you care" are fronting for the fact they want it to change in a specific direction. If it was somehow retconned that space marines are all aryan supermen because the gene seed requires superior hyperborean DNA to work its magic and swarthoids can never become astartes, these same people would suddenly discover that they care very deeply about the integrity of the lore and that you can't just change it however you want.
So? That confers him no special say now.
The issue is that the lore IS working. Nobody has a problem with 40k Lore except a bunch of tourists who don't really like the game or the setting or the hobby, and are really just in it for clout or to try and infect something else with their mentally ill Leftoid nonsense.
Anyone claiming this isn't what it is can be dismissed out of hand. We all saw what happened to D&D, we all saw what happened to White Wolf, we all see what happens when we countenance this mentally ill shit, you've exhausted ALL of your credit on the "well we're just trying to help tee hee" account, NOTHING anyone to the Left of Mussolini says can be trusted, you are NOT honest actors, you are NOT fans just like me.
FRICK YOU. Stay away from my fricking hobby, I would rather it die than be corrupted by you vermin, I don't even know or care what the lore in question is.
>The issue is that the lore IS working.
Primaris are working? Nucrons are working? Nusquats are working? Lmao you may be moronic if you think this.
>Nobody has a problem with 40k Lore except a bunch of tourists who don't really like the game or the setting or the hobby, and are really just in it for clout or to try and infect something else with their mentally ill Leftoid nonsense.
Nonsense, Pointing out some elements of the games story are poorly explored or implemented isn't tantamount to being a leftist. Almost every for instance hated the 13th black crusade
>Anyone claiming this isn't what it is can be dismissed out of hand.
Crimestop
>We all saw what happened to D&D, we all saw what happened to White Wolf, we all see what happens when we countenance this mentally ill shit, you've exhausted ALL of your credit on the "well we're just trying to help tee hee" account, NOTHING anyone to the Left of Mussolini says can be trusted, you are NOT honest actors, you are NOT fans just like me.
How is changing/retconning lore tantamount to making it woke like nudnd? Also white wolf was basically always leftist
>FRICK YOU. Stay away from my fricking hobby, I would rather it die than be corrupted by you vermin, I don't even know or care what the lore in question is.
Holy onions meltdown
>Primaris are working? Nucrons are working? Nusquats are working? Lmao you may be moronic if you think this.
The moronic third worlders who spend all day calling people tourists found out about 40k around two years ago themselves and don't realize that anything you're listing is a retcon.
>Primaris are working? Nucrons are working? Nusquats are working? Lmao you may be moronic if you think this.
And this is supposed to be an argument for fem marines? What makes you think fem marines will "work" better than any of those other things have?
>OK yeah I know every single retcon has made the lore worse so far, but trust us, this time will be totally different because our culture war agenda says it will.
>And this is supposed to be an argument for fem marines? What makes you think fem marines will "work" better than any of those other things have?
my post never mentioned female marines moron
>>OK yeah I know every single retcon has made the lore worse so far, but trust us, this time will be totally different because our culture war agenda says it will.
not even true. dreadnoughts being mortally wounded soldiers was a retcon and it's one of the more iconic aspects of the lore
>still lurking in the thread yet didn't reply to
that's not a post replying to me
Sure buddy.
>I never mentioned female space marines
>But I will argue the point anyway and if anyone tries to offer a rebuttle I will just argue I never argued for female space marines.
You're still trying to justify the argument though, you're literally whining that Well if X happened in rogue trader and was changed Y should happen now"
Fact is, Female Space Marines would be a change simply to placate political actors and not actually contribute anything worthwhile, moreso it would diminish the literally "Warrior-Faternity" ideas that the Space Marines are based on; Knightly Orders, Monkastic groups and even Viking raiding bands.
>Implying anything to do with Cawl is an improvement
Also I'm getting pretty sick of this narrative of "Giving a shit about something is bad." I know it's a cover for turning 40k into yet another casualty of moronic libshit ideas but as an argument in and of itself it's pretty abhorrent.
This was inevitable since the day GW turned into a public company. Investors don't give a shit about the people already buying a product, most of them likely have no clue what the product even is. The idea is that if you pander to gay transsexual black women, suddenly sales will quadruple as they will surely buy product in the same amount as white men once did (and needless to say, they think you'll keep buying in the same numbers too).
I don't want female space marines on aesthetic grounds but he is correct the lore changes every new codex or edition anyway and anyone appealing to lore is stupid or dishonest
>this is important enough to change
>I don't like the change
>haha no this is far too unimportant to care about if it changes, despite the fact that change was very important when we did it and important enough for me to panic when you suggest changing it back
No, he is not right. He is gaslighting. I don't know who this man is, but I think everyone who makes this dishonest argument deserves to be shot.
It's not gaslighting to say the lore is not real, and therefore changing the lore is not an affront in itself.
"You can't do X, it would make the lore worse" and "You can't do X, it would change the lore" are very different arguments, and it isn't dishonest to give weight to one but not the other.
Saying something isn't important enough to warrant worrying about a change is the gaslighting. Because if it isn't important enough to worry about, then that goes both ways. You want X to be different? It's not important, you manbaby. They're toy soldiers. What do you care? Buy different toy soldiers.
"It's not important enough to worry that it's being changed" and "It's important enough to worry if a change is bad or good" are two different arguments and it isn't dishonest to give weight to one and not the other.
Do you not understand the distinction between worrying about the quality of change and considering change itself a violation of something sacred? I don't want female space marines because it would be a bad change, not because I consider the 40k lore something serious enough that change would be sacrilegious
His point is very clear: It's just toy soldiers and anyone worrying about said toy soldiers needs to grow up. He makes no distinction between qualitative levels of change. So the counterpoint is "why were toy soldiers important enough to change in the first place, then?"
>He makes no distinction between qualitative levels of change
Yes he does. He says "if the lore isn't working, change it." To say "isn't working" is calling that part of lore bad, or holding back the overall quality in some way.
He makes an opinionated assumption on what lore should do. Lore is merely the background of a setting designed to add depth.
Having a process be exclusively tied to a particular sex is working as intended.
>He makes an opinionated assumption
Saying his opinion is an opinion is pointless tautology and if we've reached the point that the only thing you have left to say is that opinions on lore are in fact opinions you should concede and move on.
>it's not important but we demand it to change.
>even these trillion dollar institutions are taking a step back
Blackrock alone lost thirteen trillion dollars on ESG.
>Investors don't give a shit about the people already buying a product
Investors like to make money and woke shit looses money. This is well known among investors now and they won't touch woke shit and CEO's won't either anymore since it opens them up to lawsuits over failing in their fiduciary duties to their investors. This means that adopting or pushing woke ideology is now seen as intentionally making a bad business decision.
I don't have a dog in this race because nobody should give a shit about female space marines, but you know he wouldn't dare call them "just bloody toy soldiers" if GW was still actively paying him to draw those toy soldiers as the badass warriors killing aliens the lore claims them to be. Just saying.
I mean sure, I'm not invested, but because I'm not invested I don't give them my money. It's weird that companies simultaneously expect you to not care enough to complain, but still care enough to buy 80 dollar miniatures.
As much of an overused meme as it is, that's where "Don't ask questions, just consume product and get excited for next products" comes from. It's why big companies love fans but despise their fanbase.
It's true, but it's something no creator should ever admit publicly. It destroys the value of a setting.
I mean, why should the reader care about the lore if the writer himself doesn't? If people pay you because they care about your thing, it's an awful idea to yell at them to stop caring.
The first part is definitely true given how as proven by this very thread if you so much as suggest Warhammer lore isn't the greatest thing since the bible 40kids will call you a leftist and a troony. I can't think of a more cancerous fanbase in sci-fi.
>literally anything happens to be all-male
>WAAAAAAAAH THIS CAN'T BE ALLOWED WAAAAAGH MUH HECKIN FEMERINOS NEEEEEED TO BE INCLUDED ABLOOHOOO THEY JUST DO OKAY WAAAAAH THIS IS SEXISSSSSSSST WAAAAAH WAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAH
Boy this whole 'giving women the right to vote' thing is going great lol
>Boy this whole 'giving women the right to vote' thing is going great lol
Yeah it is, the countries where women can vote rule the world and the countries where women can't are shitholes
And yet countries where woman can vote, but the country has still has a conservative focused culture are thriving, and despite their actions showing them merely to be Trojan horses, dozens of western powers voted for more conservative governments.
I get it., you're an philosophical zombie with absolutely zero introspection but there is quite a clear different between troony worshipping marxist and Sharia Law demander. At least on paper.
You said women voting was bad and I showed women voting correlates with prosperous nations and now you're rambling about how you're actually right that women voting is bad because some countries women vote for conservatives and those countries are thriving? I think your brain is misfiring, none of what you're saying connects to the previous things you've said.
The most thriving countries in the world all have liberal governments. They're all social democracies.
No. Most of them are either Republics, Constituonal Monarchies or Parliamentarian Republics.
None of them are Social Democracies, none of them arguably are really socialist because the means of production are firmly in the hands of government approved private owners or publically traded.
All Nordic countries are social democracies and welfare states.
>a left-wing political ideology that advocates for a peaceful democratic evolution from laissez-faire or crony capitalism towards social capitalism sometimes also referred to as a social market economy. Social democracy opposes the full centralization of an economy as proposed by some socialists.
I live in a Nordic country and it is a neoliberal hellhole with all the politicians pursuing insane net zero policies that will destroy any hope of prosperity for future generations.
>Have Liberal Governments.
Liberal =/= Socialist, and the sooner people understand that the sooner we can stop entertaining morons who want free stuff.
gary chalk is right, they eat shit, far bigger turds, all the time and keep buying
>Gar(r)y Chalk
Underrated. I was thinking the exact same thing. “Optimus Prime cares about 40k???”
Remember, evil can never create, they can only corrupt and destroy.
is that why modern gw is so dogshit?
>if warhammer players can cope with continually changing rules, lists, bigger figures, and prices
What does he mean people complain about all of these all the time.
Old man getting senile; it was inevitable.
I always find it funny how in one breath these people will call the lore childish and stupid and then in the next view the lore as a good way to judge the beliefs and moral character of a person. I just want some consistency, am I a dumb manchild or an evil piece of shit for liking characters x, and z?
it is stupid, therefore someone who takes it seriously (or appears to) is lacking in moral character
>I just want some consistency, am I a dumb manchild
Yes. Genuinely yes you are stupid for wanting consistency from warhammer, which has re-invented itself yearly for the past 40 years.
You seem to be fricking illiterate given that you didn't even understand the question that poster was asking
>uhm actually it doesn't matter and you're a manchild if you think it does
>also I will sperg at length about you caring about this because obviously it matters and i'm actually a disingenuous c**t taking sides in favor of it
Discord invaders general I see.
Correct, the plastic toy lore doesn't matter all that much but it is concerning there are 40k fanboys who take it seriously and identify with it on a personal level and then get triggered whenever somebody suggests changing it despite it already having been changed several times.
>NO U
I kneel before your intellect
But I don't have a childish obsession with plastic toys
Yeah see i'm not paying for female spess muhreens or any faction that has them.
If GW thinks they can live off mouthy twitteroids who've never paid retail for a whole army they've got another thing coming.
what's with all the 40k hate recently?
>recently
I've seen 3+ threads recently complaining about something similar thought that some thing recent went down, but then it might just be the usual reoccurring hate
40k fanboys spam their shit everywhere and people are noticing how cringe it is and how they're all massive paypiggies.
Don't you understand? Clearly he is the smart and enlightened one for shitting on people's hobbies by calling them childish. While in turn sounding like a 12 year old who found out they can say curse words on the Internet.
no arguments
stop conflating your asd and weird stilted spergspeak with being refined
you live in the fricking midwest
Your reading comprehension is fricking dismal.
Okay, that's fine, but could they change the lore in ways that aren't really fricking gay and moronic?
Alright. Explain how changing the lore for an absolutely arbitrary reason would benefit anyone but a select group of mentally unstable droogs?
>If it doesn't work, change it
Yes, in regards to think I don't like. NuCrons do not exist in lore and will never exist as long as I draw breath
>[honorablebloodthrister has entered the chat]
Tragic
It's a commercial IP, and if you change it than it's no longer what it was, so no. He's moronic. It would be like a guy asking why Star Wars fans are upset that some new special faction of Jedi show up and are now the focus of the setting or some other obnoxious and ghey marketing stunt.
GW could release female space marines tomorrow and there would be so much b***hing, so much outrage addiction driven engagement bait, effeminate histrionics, and general disingenuous, underhanded homosexualry, but a short time later the vast majority of those people that were already collecting would still be buying them.
GW simps are made to eat shit every day. Every all-too-soon edition churn, every bomb that's thrown into balance as soon as they start getting things right, the constant balance patches with MASSIVE changes. It's all designed to squeeze money from the whales. The game is dogshit, and people lap it up. The enormous fricking models are covered in doodads, because that's premium, and obscenely priced as a result. Not just because of that though, also as a big geeky thing they attract those starwars/marvel/etc soi types that gravitate towards the biggest eyepee in any nerd field like moths to a flame. Autists too deeply love them and are fanatically loyal because they can get dropped off at the store in mom's minivan and simply by shuffling around the store with a GW Caerrycayse they can get a pick up game with almost no meaningful human interaction.
The only reason why the fluff is such a huge issue is the sheer abundance of secondaries in the 40k fandom. There's a vast number more orbiters than players. No other wargame attracts the high proportions of hangers on.