Is it dumb to have "merchant monsters" in your dungeon? (provided they have countermeasures against robbery, like a warehouse hidden behind crawlspaces too small for humans)
Is it dumb to have "merchant monsters" in your dungeon?
Is it dumb to have "merchant monsters" in your dungeon? (provided they have countermeasures against robbery, like a warehouse hidden behind crawlspaces too small for humans)
>LE CUTE HECKIN' KOBOLD.... IS LE SHOPKEEPER!!!!
its all so tiresome
I'm tired of spastics who feel the need to type out shit in all-caps with "le" for literally no reason whatsoever.
It's writing style of people with little self-control
PRETENDING TO BE moronic IS… LE BAD!! XD
They're redditors
you sound a bit jaded. Did you try playing a game with real people?
You're the only tiresome thing here, joyless c**t.
How else would they signal their (very important) disapproval except with the same obnoxious methodology in use since 2006?
>the same obnoxious methodology in use since 2006
It's no more stale or obnoxious than the left's use of Nazi for everything since the 1960s
DnD 5e and it's fanbase consider to be cancer for the entire hobby... what else us new?
Zoomers who only know how to communicate ideas through memes need to become forced organ-donors.
Everything nowadays is either le wholesome Chungus or porn. Get use to it
And both of these exist for the purpose of being someone cum fantasies
The nature and reputation of the species counts for a lot.
Let's say one kobold weirdo sells peaches to adventurers because she wants to earn a small bag of human coins so that she can run away to human lands because kobold lands suck. First of all, that might be a crime to kobolds and she might have to get far away from other kobolds just to try it, but even if it works what happens next? Normal kobolds say "Oh, wow, they're actually buying them and eating them." And then next thing you know there are kobold merchants everywhere trying to poison you and loot the body.
Dungeons are a place where creatures kill other creatures and take their stuff, it's normal, no one does anything to prevent it. So, yes, it's extremely dumb to have any sort of merchant inside a dungeon. If you want convenience for metagame reasons then you should just do the dungeon-under-a-city with a goldrush economy, the problem with those games is that they're full of NPC adventurers and the setting tends to infringe on PC agency. The PCs are supposed to be special (not unique but unusual, perhaps unique in a local sense) for their willingness and ability to cross the boundary between civilization and anarchy.
>it's extremely dumb to have any sort of merchant inside a dungeon
It can work. My setting has a character inspired by pic related who hangs around monster-infested areas and sells weapons and gear at a premium because he knows there's a demand. He's not a monster, but he's so mutated/disfigured that nobody knows what race he even is.
Why don't orcs, bandits or adventurers kill him and take his stuff?
Why doesn't he kill the orcs and bandits and adventurers himself and take their coin?
Why does he need coin?
You need a story that answers all three questions. You can say that he's extremely powerful and extremely lazy, and that works for one guy, but in what scenario is this the best way for a powerful lazy guy to make coin?
As a rule, commerce is built on peace, if one side can kill and loot the other then commerce doesn't happen.
All of these can easily be explained. Yeah, you should have an answer to those questions, but that doesn't mean the concept itself is dumb.
>All of these can easily be explained.
If you say so.
Are you really this much of an uncreative oaf that "why does the wacky merchant need money?" is an imposing task to you?
For the purpose of this conversation, yes, I am an uncreative oaf, meaning that you are forced to defend your own ideas because I simply am not creative enough to defend them for you.
NTA but the reason the merchant wants money is the same reason all the sentient monsters want money, because it can be exchanged for goods and services.
The wacky merchant has pica and eats gold.
>Why don't orcs, bandits or adventurers kill him and take his stuff?
Anyone who tries finds nothing but dirt, leaves, and rocks on his "body." He'll then refuses to do business with anyone who's "killed" him in any future encounters.
>Why doesn't he kill the orcs and bandits and take their coin?
Too much work, and not as much fun. Adventurers are much more interesting.
>Why does he need coin?
He doesn't just deal in coin. He'll barter for just about any kind of useful resources. And he doesn't just do it for the money.
I'll admit, conceptually he's a very game-y chararacter. But the whole setting is like that, so he fits right in.
*He'll then refuse
This is what I get for not doing a third pass before postinc.
>Anyone who tries finds nothing but dirt, leaves, and rocks on his "body." He'll then refuses to do business with anyone who's "killed" him in any future encounters.
The next question is, "If a guy has this kind of power, what COULD he be doing instead of this?"
>Too much work, and not as much fun. Adventurers are much more interesting.
Now we establish that this is a powerful entity who does dumb things as a hobby.
Is his 'body' edible? Have the local fauna figured that out yet?
Is it power? Or just a trick?
It is unambiguously both. I don't question your right to pose unanswered questions in your game, nor would I claim that you can't have powerful entities messing with the PCs as part of your fantasy world, I'm just defending my statement that it's dumb to have merchants in the dungeon. A creature that magically respawns and magically can't-be-stolen-from is a character that can do a lot of "dumb" things, it doesn't make those things any less dumb.
>unambiguously
The whole point of the character is that he's ambiguous. But if you really want me to spoil the mystery that badly.
He's not powerful and he doesn't "respawn." He's just really good at faking his own death and swapping places with a dummy body. It's all smoke and mirrors.
Anon, the ability to do that and get away with it is a power, it doesn't matter if he does it with magic or sleight-of-hand or both or something else altogether. And since you brought it up, I really hope that his staged deaths make actual non-magical sense, and I hope that the PCs have a chance to solve the mystery through reactive roles or deduction or both. In practice, it sounds like he actually is an indestructible shopkeeper and is meant to be an indestructible shopkeeper, in which case you could just say "it's magic" and that would be far less lame than "he's not powerful and it's just a trick".
>it's extremely dumb to have any sort of merchant inside a dungeon
no worse than having female adventurers
Women don't get a strength penalty because the game revolves around self-insertion, but even if it didn't there would still be female adventurers, like there were in real life.
>the game revolves around self-insertion
maybe at your table, and that's a you problem
>kobold shopkeeper in a dungeon
You just gave me an idea...
Just put a vending machine in the dungeon
Dungeons of Dredmor is a great game
Welcome to the circus of value!
It's too silly for my taste. Like something you'd see in a sub par anime that's basically just animated DnD.
yes
yes, it's obviously dumb. it would less dumb to have monsters who aren't hostile and willing to help you for a price. they would likely be creatures who aren't from around here, so they aren't accepted by the local monsters but also unable to conduct business in civilized places; or maybe it's a whole tribe of creatures. they probably don't set up shops or haul around merchandise, they likely trade in help and information or agree to meet you at a certain location (like the entrance of the dungeon) with the stuff you requested. so generally, "dungeon shopkeepers" would just be neutral monsters willing to trade, which is a thing since the beginnings of d&d
>enter a dark room that smells of alchemy and spices
>the torches suddenly flare up
>gm puts this on https://youtu.be/o5xykMvJejk?feature=shared
If it's done well. A merchant who sells mindane items and just so happens to be a monster is boring and stupid.
1: Adventuring Guild provides far-selling stones to higher rank people who need it and want it. These are one per party and have a recharge time of one use per month, week or day, depending on quality. The quality of a stone can be upgraded, but only through a secret method kept by the adventuring guild.
2: Adventures find themselves deep inside a place they can't easily leave, but have stuff to sell and stuff to buy. They deploy the stone in a 15ft radius, 20ft high cylinder
3. The far-seller stone connects with a far-selling merchant, typically located on a transitive plane, or elemental plane. Merchants can recognize stones and will refuse service or give preference to different parties. The stone can also call out for a certain merchant.
4: The far-selling merchant projects an image of their store, along with the circular hole portal that connects them to the customer. The projected image may be audio only or include smells and physical presence, depending on quality. The size of the selling portal depends on quality, ranging from a fewinches to 10ft in radius.
5: For a limited duration, the two parties can exchange goods. Duration depends on quality. No material with a soul attached can pass the portal. The portal can do no harm to anyone or anything. The merchant has control over the portal and can block travel, though this is a major faux pas. Merchants charge more than regular price for sales, though typically buy goods for full price.
6: The limited duration is typically measured in minutes, never reaching beyond one hour, even for the highest quality stones. The merchant will not have time to acquire specific items, so the adventuring party can communicate and request certain items and goods for the next usage of the stone. The merchant typically won't aquire rare and expensive items without a guarantee that it will be purchased.
7: The far-selling stone can be easily blocked through certain rituals and techniques, so the party must disable them or use rare materials to strengthen the connection. Certain creatures know how to track the scent of a far-selling portal, especially if used often in a certain are.
8: The Adventuring Guild gets a small cut of revenue from the merchant. The Guild controls all far-selling stones and creates and upgrades them all. This process is kept secret. Merchants are given their own tools to receive stone requests. Merchants can be blacklisted or face punishment for abuse by the Guild.
Far-selling stones are kept within the Guild, though they may be loaned to respected individuals. In eras or areas of extreme extra-planar incoherence, (such as the cascading collapse of the world-spanning gate network centuries ago, leading to horrific results and avenging pogroms and manhints against wizards, who typically do deserve it,) the stones will not function, or worse, open doorways to places unknown and terrible.
In periods of history where civilization has broken down and the guild has a limited presence, powerful adventurers just communicate a time, place and requests to extraplanar beings or teleporters. A ritual can ensure the merchant arrives with perfect accuracy, though this ritual does use rare reagents.
This, "off-the-books," method of dungeon merchanting is quite rare for several reasons. It requires an almost extreme amount of trust between seller and buyer and relies on powerful magic or items. As this method is mostly used in periods of chaos and strife, the buyer and seller make tempting targets for ambush, as each side must travel to a specific pre-planned destination. Especially as both sides will be arriving with extraordinary wealth...
>adventurer’s guild
DROPPED
>yes I'd like to buy 25 tons of boulders delivered directly above the dragon
what if the shopkeeper is such a terrifying entity that monsters simply avoid them?
>t. noped the frick out after seeing this guy for the first time
Actual monsters (i.e. members of hostile races) wouldn't make sense. Isolated friendly or neutral creatures can, if they live in the dungeon as a natural defence against some exterior foe.
It should be less a case of "dungeon shoppe" and more a case that an Aranea will use magic for you in exchange for gold... But you have to go finding it where it's mortal enemies the scorpion folk haven't.
Pic related would get shwacked by a mid tier mindless monster like a gelatinous cube and we have the numbers to show it. It makes an absurdity out of the game world.
It works if they've got a lot of fine things on sale, stranger.
Ehehehehehehe.
Thank you.
If they're decontextualized from their dungeon habitation and faction so it just appears like an open market costco sample table yes, its dumb.
If its part of a larger dungeon that has factions, exploration and reaction rolls it comes naturally.
What kind of merchant monster are we talking?
>a monster that just so happens to be human-like in intelligence (unlike the rest of its kin) and runs a shop for adventurers to supply, as other monsters are certainly not buying
>a 'lower race' monster like kobolds that can form a society and just do not discriminate on their clientele
>a creature that is mimicking human behaviors, trying to "sell" pretty stones (which may have actual gems amongst them) and balls of mud in exchange for leaves and twigs
If you have a non hostile settlement or a stash room of a dungeon looting merchant.
Probably my settings Mimics are the closest thing, though not quite.
>Mimics here don't eat people, they feed on positive emotions like happy, surprise, etc
>They hide in dungeons where they're likely to be found and put together things people might use inside them to be found
>younger mimics can be spotted by their unfamiliarity with how to make certain things and just using what's around, so am adventurer might open a mimic to find a dagger made of stone for example
>while not a shop, most people like to "pay" a mimic by leaving raw materials inside of it for it to use
>rarely a mimic might take a liking to someone and follow them around, essentially acting as a portable crafter of sorts
>there's also stories of Archivists, very old Mimics that can even create magic items
>They're only found in areas dense in ambient magic, and a wizard will absolutely use an Archivist living in their tower as bragging rights
watch out man, this shit is far too cute for the local schizoposter to ignore
That's a risk I'm willing to take
Actually since the thread's still up and I got back from work I'll elaborate a bit more if only to to contribute something.
>Mimics, with the exception of Archivists, have never been seen as anything but chests(Archivists tend to be man-sized wardrobes). It's believed they CAN change into other things to hide, but no one has ever been able to confirm this.
>Mimics are incredible hiders. Generally a Mimic that doesn't want to be found can't be, but they rarely avoid detection unless they don't think they'll get anything out of someone.
>Mimics that become "attached" to someone will follow them around, but never when they think someone is looking at them, they'll just seem to "appear" when/where they are needed.
>A PC with a bonded Mimic can pull any mundane item out of it once a day. An adult Mimic will generally try to use the right materials needed for it, but a younger Mimic or one that I feel couldn't have had time to gather the "proper" materials will use whatever it has access to. When it doubt I roll on a material chart(our Fighter once ended up with a Leather Greatsword, but it worked better as a club so that's what he used it as). They decide what item they want then I'll roll on the chart, said item will never have any magical qualities to it.
>If for any reason the Mimic stops liking a person or thinks it's in danger it will just vanish the next time it thinks no one's looking. if it's just danger it'll return once the danger has passed.
>Mimics will never work with organic material, although there are rumors of corrupted Mimics called Fleshcrafters that will. Fleshcrafters are also the only hostile Mimics, but they will never attack groups or anyone they think they can't immediately kill for raw materials.
>Fleshcrafters feed on negative emotions instead of positive, like shock, disgust, and disappointment.
>I have yet to ever have a Fleshcrafter in a game.
depends on the dungeon.
In the pompei based town where the inhabitants mindlessly do what they were doing when the volcano went off, sure. In the criss cross of tunnels not owned by any one group of monsters? Sure. In the dread lord zagothrax's spire of doom? Only as some kind of sinister trap.
There's a whole kobold bazaar on level 1 of stonehell. Kobolds in general keep the dungeon in repair so nobody really bothers them, since they go out of their way to be useful, nonthreatening, and obeisant.
Their little shop area sells mostly straight garbage; a fair number of things from the regular gear list, for a tiny fraction of the price, that all break apart or bend on shit rolls because you bought it from kobolds.
Really an interesting thing to have near the top of a big dungeon. Do you trek all the fricking way back to town for something or just...put up with buying the chinese knockoff from the little shits?
>Is it dumb
yes but you're playing basic b***h fantasy using The Containment Game, so you've already gone full moron.
I hate these cute Kobolds so much...
And I hate this kind of artstyle even more.
That said, monster merchants are a Nice sporadic addition, but I keep them to random chance in Unique Dungeon rooms.
Else, the only opportunity for trade is with adventurer parties that might show up, and theyll have only very basic stuff.
>buttfruits
>5c
>have a skeleton merchant selling magic swords, armor and rings
>kinda expensive but the PCs might buy it anyway
>if they do, they find the treasure chests at the end of the dungeon are empty and skellyboy is nowhere to be seen
>Is it dumb to have "merchant monsters" in your dungeon?
look up some old school megadungeons, the entire purpose of stuff like Reaction Rolls and dungeon ecology is to show the dungeon as an actual inhabited place with living populations with their own factions and interests, no it's not strange to run across some unscrupulous kobolds or friendly myconoids who might be willing to trade shit with you, previous editions have the economy as a much much greater focus than 5e does, going into dungeons for loot was the entire point, not being a superhero
Merchants are on some classic encounter tables, they travel with bodyguards and shit, have limited inventories and are there to sell weapons to monsters probably. Dungeons should be as dynamic and alive as your autism and GM chops allow. Why shouldn't evil mutants do commerce sometimes, when it benefits them? Also OP is a degenerate and this thread was made in bad faith.
I think it can work out well enough if for example, the merchant monster had interest in eliminating the dungeon denizens and is not themself one of them and its shown they are an opportunist who showed up only after they saw the players go in.
Depends on what kind of dungeon it is, there would need to be a lot of monster foot traffic to make such an enterprise worthwhile, maybe some kind of cave society or a lax prison. If it's some dark wizard's crypt or something then don't do it