>Assembly programming is brutal.
This reminds me: Are there any sources on what the programming skills of freshly hired employees out of college was back then - I mean at developers when the famicom was current. In many Japanese companies it was (and still is) common practice to hire graduates from "good" universities regardless of their major etc. and then train them extensively on the job - so I wonder how much e.g. assembly knowledge they brought with them vs acquired at the company.
>Assembly programming is brutal.
This reminds me: Are there any sources on what the programming skills of freshly hired employees out of college was back then - I mean at developers when the famicom was current. In many Japanese companies it was (and still is) common practice to hire graduates from "good" universities regardless of their major etc. and then train them extensively on the job - so I wonder how much e.g. assembly knowledge they brought with them vs acquired at the company.
It's a very cool program and unless you want to learn fricking assembly it's the only game in town. I respect the dev. That said it's extremely eccentric, perhaps by necessity, and learning the program itself was my main challenge- its basically impossible to use unless you follow the documentation, in the form of tutorial videos made by the man himself.
The way things are layered in menus and the general design philosophy was just extremely odd, and more than anything i found the template system very frustrating. I wasn't able to create a basic program and then edit it later into different branches because of the way assets are stored, which seemed insane to me.
The results speak foe themselves through, some games made with the program are amazing.
If u just want to make a real console game without investing 30 hours just to learn the program id say gbstudio
Assembly language isn't hard at all, it's arguably easier than HLLs as it's not as abstract.
Ok, so it's not just me then? For a moment I thought I had brain damage since ASM seemed so easy and logical and yet C/C++/C# and even Python seems arbitrary and confusing to me.
>as it's not as abstract
Which means you'd have to figure out and do every single little thing by yourself. It's not easy, deal with it.
Ok, so it's not just me then? For a moment I thought I had brain damage since ASM seemed so easy and logical and yet C/C++/C# and even Python seems arbitrary and confusing to me.
>C/C++/C# and even Python
Are you making a game engine by yourself?
>If it's possible to make more than "a box touches another box and dies" types of games without having to learn asm from the start.
Sure. You can use nesmaker to make a garbage version and then rewite half of it in assembly later to make it playable.
[...]
You seem to know a lot about hiring practices back then, so I can't imagine that information from anyone who actually knows how things actually were done back then would be of any use to you.
[...]
Assembly is only easy if you understand how to code. Most devs don't. They drag and drop or glue a few frameworks together with some words the IDE fills in for them. They couldn't multiply a pair of two digit numbers without a calculator, let alone write code to do it.
>I know jack about making games except for sprite art, btw.
no.
no.
[...]
this. it's not difficult.
[...] > Most devs don't.
people that can't learn new languages and insist on having their hands held should not be calling themselves "devs". they should be calling themselves "lame wankers".
You're correct but back in the 80s-90s the typical programmer was a lot more skilled than today and he understood logic and other elementary stuff like that. Soimen who make a low quality homebrew in GameMaker...do not.
>If it's possible to make more than "a box touches another box and dies" types of games without having to learn asm from the start.
Sure. You can use nesmaker to make a garbage version and then rewite half of it in assembly later to make it playable.
>Assembly programming is brutal.
This reminds me: Are there any sources on what the programming skills of freshly hired employees out of college was back then - I mean at developers when the famicom was current. In many Japanese companies it was (and still is) common practice to hire graduates from "good" universities regardless of their major etc. and then train them extensively on the job - so I wonder how much e.g. assembly knowledge they brought with them vs acquired at the company.
You seem to know a lot about hiring practices back then, so I can't imagine that information from anyone who actually knows how things actually were done back then would be of any use to you.
[...]
[...]
Assembly language isn't hard at all, it's arguably easier than HLLs as it's not as abstract.
Assembly is only easy if you understand how to code. Most devs don't. They drag and drop or glue a few frameworks together with some words the IDE fills in for them. They couldn't multiply a pair of two digit numbers without a calculator, let alone write code to do it.
[...]
[...]
Assembly language isn't hard at all, it's arguably easier than HLLs as it's not as abstract.
ASM isn't that hard to learn basic shit but writing anything non-trivial is hard. It takes a lot of work and code is very error prone. Believe me I understand all the shit with modern HLLs and over-abstraction but low level is not all rainbows and sunshine.
>code is very error prone
No. Codelets are very error prone.
>I know jack about making games except for sprite art, btw.
no.
no.
[...]
this. it's not difficult.
[...] > Most devs don't.
people that can't learn new languages and insist on having their hands held should not be calling themselves "devs". they should be calling themselves "lame wankers".
b-b-but they identify as """"devs"""
[...]
[...]
Show us your game.
No one here needs to show anything to an angry little codelet and the mouse in its pocket. No oompa loompa for you.
It doesn't literally need to be an NES game. Look at Mega Man 9 and 10 for instance, look and feel nearly identical to the NES titles but made with modern tools. If that is easier for you then I recommend just doing that instead, you can use tools like Pixel Brush and Famitracker to make it feel like an 8-bit game. You just want to get the general point across, not make it more confusing than it needs to be. Modern software also has the benefit of being more portable, eg you can actually sell your game on App Store, Google Play, Steam etc.
>I know jack about making games except for sprite art, btw.
no.
no.
ha no. get cracking on 6502 assembly language.
this. it's not difficult.
>If it's possible to make more than "a box touches another box and dies" types of games without having to learn asm from the start.
Sure. You can use nesmaker to make a garbage version and then rewite half of it in assembly later to make it playable.
[...]
You seem to know a lot about hiring practices back then, so I can't imagine that information from anyone who actually knows how things actually were done back then would be of any use to you.
[...]
Assembly is only easy if you understand how to code. Most devs don't. They drag and drop or glue a few frameworks together with some words the IDE fills in for them. They couldn't multiply a pair of two digit numbers without a calculator, let alone write code to do it.
> Most devs don't.
people that can't learn new languages and insist on having their hands held should not be calling themselves "devs". they should be calling themselves "lame wankers".
It's a very cool program and unless you want to learn fricking assembly it's the only game in town. I respect the dev. That said it's extremely eccentric, perhaps by necessity, and learning the program itself was my main challenge- its basically impossible to use unless you follow the documentation, in the form of tutorial videos made by the man himself.
The way things are layered in menus and the general design philosophy was just extremely odd, and more than anything i found the template system very frustrating. I wasn't able to create a basic program and then edit it later into different branches because of the way assets are stored, which seemed insane to me.
The results speak foe themselves through, some games made with the program are amazing.
If u just want to make a real console game without investing 30 hours just to learn the program id say gbstudio
use nesmaker if you're a sprite artist who wants to effortlessly make an extremely generic and bland game that does nothing new and plays exactly the same as every other nesmaker game
use assembly if you want to spend months painstakingly developing your own tools and systems only to end up with something that looks and sounds like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSAg9R6PL1M
use nesfab if you want to make a good game, but whether or not you actually make a good game with it is entirely on you
It's completely fricking broken. The creators rely solely on their community to fix their lazy programming and scripts. The newest version is completely broken and you need to browse their forums and discord to get it functioning to a point where you have enough space to work with. I made and sold a game with 4.1.5 but it wasn't worth the hassle dealing with a terrible code base.
This goes for almost any "no code" tool. They pack them full of features that gives the appearance of working and being there but once you use it it's evident it's badly done and you have to manually rewrite it anyway.
it would be fine if it was free, but they're charging 36 dollars for something that is essentially broken, and the only official support available for their most recent version (which is 4 years old) is vague advice on their boomer facebook page, or their dated tutorial videos. the code base is so jank that even its most die hard members complain about how bad it is on the official discord. it's cool that it exists don't get me wrong, but every game made with it has to be held together by patches and duct-tape because the foundation is so shitty.
i just wanted to give it a try out of curiosity like toy around in it for a few minutes but no way i will pay 36 bucks and I can not find it on rutracker wtf is that shit
It's better than nothing but it's very limited and you will need to learn assembly if you really want to achieve anything with it.
If you really want to code for NES, learn assembly (not easy). If you just want to make a game that looks like an NES game, learn a modern programming language and design your game based around the graphical limitations of the NES such as color palette or on screen sprite limitations.
FYI the reason why homebrew for Genesis and Dreamcast is so popular is because you don't have to write games in Assembly, you can use a modern language (well, I guess it's not modern anymore but it's basically modern).
Genesis homebrew is easy because there's a free SDK to write the games in a modern programming language and convert it to assembly and essentially every modern Genesis game - including the ones made by M2 - made use of that SDK.
Genesis homebrew is easy because there's a free SDK to write the games in a modern programming language and convert it to assembly and essentially every modern Genesis game - including the ones made by M2 - made use of that SDK.
Genesis homebrew is easy because the architecture isn't hard to grasp and it's quite easy to code in 68k asm.
That's when you move on to something more advanced. GB Studio is baby stuff but it honestly taught me some of the fundamentals of 2D game design, which made it easier to learn actual coding later on. Everyone has to start somewhere.
ha no. get cracking on 6502 assembly language.
Just use game maker or godot if you want to make nes style games. Assembly programming is brutal.
>Assembly programming is brutal.
This reminds me: Are there any sources on what the programming skills of freshly hired employees out of college was back then - I mean at developers when the famicom was current. In many Japanese companies it was (and still is) common practice to hire graduates from "good" universities regardless of their major etc. and then train them extensively on the job - so I wonder how much e.g. assembly knowledge they brought with them vs acquired at the company.
Assembly language isn't hard at all, it's arguably easier than HLLs as it's not as abstract.
Ok, so it's not just me then? For a moment I thought I had brain damage since ASM seemed so easy and logical and yet C/C++/C# and even Python seems arbitrary and confusing to me.
>as it's not as abstract
Which means you'd have to figure out and do every single little thing by yourself. It's not easy, deal with it.
>C/C++/C# and even Python
Are you making a game engine by yourself?
No, just trying to learn how to program in something other than ASM.
Show us your game.
You're correct but back in the 80s-90s the typical programmer was a lot more skilled than today and he understood logic and other elementary stuff like that. Soimen who make a low quality homebrew in GameMaker...do not.
What if one wanted to make a rom hack of an existing game?
Good for what or in what way? If you're asking if it'll magical let a no skill homosexual make a game anyone wants to play, no.
If it's possible to make more than "a box touches another box and dies" types of games without having to learn asm from the start.
Yeah i figured. But those don't emulate that NES feel just right
>If it's possible to make more than "a box touches another box and dies" types of games without having to learn asm from the start.
Sure. You can use nesmaker to make a garbage version and then rewite half of it in assembly later to make it playable.
You seem to know a lot about hiring practices back then, so I can't imagine that information from anyone who actually knows how things actually were done back then would be of any use to you.
Assembly is only easy if you understand how to code. Most devs don't. They drag and drop or glue a few frameworks together with some words the IDE fills in for them. They couldn't multiply a pair of two digit numbers without a calculator, let alone write code to do it.
ASM isn't that hard to learn basic shit but writing anything non-trivial is hard. It takes a lot of work and code is very error prone. Believe me I understand all the shit with modern HLLs and over-abstraction but low level is not all rainbows and sunshine.
>code is very error prone
No. Codelets are very error prone.
b-b-but they identify as """"devs"""
No one here needs to show anything to an angry little codelet and the mouse in its pocket. No oompa loompa for you.
>LARPing as an assembly programmer
More embarrassing than LARPing as a girl.
>Seething as a perpetual codelet
Less embarrassing than your usual shtick?
It doesn't literally need to be an NES game. Look at Mega Man 9 and 10 for instance, look and feel nearly identical to the NES titles but made with modern tools. If that is easier for you then I recommend just doing that instead, you can use tools like Pixel Brush and Famitracker to make it feel like an 8-bit game. You just want to get the general point across, not make it more confusing than it needs to be. Modern software also has the benefit of being more portable, eg you can actually sell your game on App Store, Google Play, Steam etc.
Try RPG Maker instead.
>I know jack about making games except for sprite art, btw.
no.
no.
this. it's not difficult.
> Most devs don't.
people that can't learn new languages and insist on having their hands held should not be calling themselves "devs". they should be calling themselves "lame wankers".
It's a very cool program and unless you want to learn fricking assembly it's the only game in town. I respect the dev. That said it's extremely eccentric, perhaps by necessity, and learning the program itself was my main challenge- its basically impossible to use unless you follow the documentation, in the form of tutorial videos made by the man himself.
The way things are layered in menus and the general design philosophy was just extremely odd, and more than anything i found the template system very frustrating. I wasn't able to create a basic program and then edit it later into different branches because of the way assets are stored, which seemed insane to me.
The results speak foe themselves through, some games made with the program are amazing.
If u just want to make a real console game without investing 30 hours just to learn the program id say gbstudio
use nesmaker if you're a sprite artist who wants to effortlessly make an extremely generic and bland game that does nothing new and plays exactly the same as every other nesmaker game
use assembly if you want to spend months painstakingly developing your own tools and systems only to end up with something that looks and sounds like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSAg9R6PL1M
use nesfab if you want to make a good game, but whether or not you actually make a good game with it is entirely on you
I actually wonder the same thing. I've also been curious about GB Studio but have never used either
It's completely fricking broken. The creators rely solely on their community to fix their lazy programming and scripts. The newest version is completely broken and you need to browse their forums and discord to get it functioning to a point where you have enough space to work with. I made and sold a game with 4.1.5 but it wasn't worth the hassle dealing with a terrible code base.
This goes for almost any "no code" tool. They pack them full of features that gives the appearance of working and being there but once you use it it's evident it's badly done and you have to manually rewrite it anyway.
it would be fine if it was free, but they're charging 36 dollars for something that is essentially broken, and the only official support available for their most recent version (which is 4 years old) is vague advice on their boomer facebook page, or their dated tutorial videos. the code base is so jank that even its most die hard members complain about how bad it is on the official discord. it's cool that it exists don't get me wrong, but every game made with it has to be held together by patches and duct-tape because the foundation is so shitty.
i just wanted to give it a try out of curiosity like toy around in it for a few minutes but no way i will pay 36 bucks and I can not find it on rutracker wtf is that shit
It's better than nothing but it's very limited and you will need to learn assembly if you really want to achieve anything with it.
If you really want to code for NES, learn assembly (not easy). If you just want to make a game that looks like an NES game, learn a modern programming language and design your game based around the graphical limitations of the NES such as color palette or on screen sprite limitations.
FYI the reason why homebrew for Genesis and Dreamcast is so popular is because you don't have to write games in Assembly, you can use a modern language (well, I guess it's not modern anymore but it's basically modern).
Genesis homebrew is easy because the architecture isn't hard to grasp and it's quite easy to code in 68k asm.
Genesis homebrew is easy because there's a free SDK to write the games in a modern programming language and convert it to assembly and essentially every modern Genesis game - including the ones made by M2 - made use of that SDK.
this is some weird samegay here
Only the first two are mine. The third is the dumbass who replied to me and didn't have a clue what he was talking about.
No. Have you seen the games made on that fricking thing? All NROM early NES multicart trite
It's a lot more involved than GB Studio, so just use that if you're new to game development.
When you realized all hipster devapps suck
That's when you move on to something more advanced. GB Studio is baby stuff but it honestly taught me some of the fundamentals of 2D game design, which made it easier to learn actual coding later on. Everyone has to start somewhere.