>Lesbian couple >Homosexual companion
Nothing about is Russian except the sound of their names.
Wait, which one's the man? I avoided talking to both of them after the embarassing hug. Haven't played that much since either.
I bet it's the human. I did think the art looked man-ish.
>Being upset that 'troony's exist in a setting where you can change your biological sex with a magic belt.
You guys are moronic, fantasy settings should be the only setting where that is 'acceptable' to you.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Its not acceptable ever. Don't pretend this isn't done because of the writer's mental illness. Now go chop off your wiener and balls and use the mutilated flesh to make a pit in the ruins.
10 months ago
Anonymous
The belt was in BG1 you moron
10 months ago
Anonymous
>game treats it as a curse >doesn't change your voice
It was a joke moron.
10 months ago
Anonymous
It's never acceptable in any setting. Especially not when the story is literally that he's a man who got groomed into it at a young age.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>he's a man who got groomed into it at a young age
Didn't he get the bright idea to become a girl after having to crossdress while evading some cultists and later on he met the orc who sold her sword to buy him a genderbending potion?
I don't see how he was groomed in this scenario.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Pretty sure his parents made him crossdress as a kid to avoid the cult. If he did it as an adult that's just as bad, maybe worse. The message literally being "men who realize they like crossdressing should just become women".
It's got pathfinders buildtism but it's also an adventure module straight from paizo so the story is absolutely horrendous and incredibly railroaded. Only play it if you just want to make big numbers and like high level campaigns
Oh yeah, i remember the lich mythic path from the ttrpg.
Chapter one, 2 and 3 are the only ones somewhat similar, the visit to nocti's land is completely different, then you should get sent into the goat's prison which is a whole chapter(utterly dissapointing in the video game, but it wasn't doable, to be honest), before a five day-rush to izalith to destroy the worldwound, because you've just defeated their heaviest troups at your city and now they understand that they can't actually stop you so they started the world-destruction ritual.
Unlike what they did for Kingmaker, the ttrpg campaign is generally better than the one in video game, the mythic paths are great but also make your companions worthless, and a campaign shouldn't be about just 1 person.
The visuals are definitely worse. Most of the interactions are text+voice based instead of those "zoom-in" shots in BG3 for example. That said Pathfinder has much more build variety and decisions also feels much more impactful. On the other hand, it's more difficult so need to actually think in some situations. Romances are also more tasteful if you'd ask me, but that's a subjective thing so it's up to you.
If this all sounds like your deal then pick it up without hesitation.
You can even become a picrel.
>The visuals are definitely worse. Most of the interactions are text+voice based instead of those "zoom-in" shots in BG3 for example
Honestly I prefer these because I can read it 10x faster than waiting for a cutscene to finish. The animations have to be REALLY good to make cutscenes better than just text on a screen, especially when it's just two homies talking like most RPG scenes.
>The visuals are definitely worse. Most of the interactions are text+voice based instead of those "zoom-in" shots in BG3 for example
How is that a bad thing?
I can't immerse myself when the interactions are being directed like that.
>Honestly I prefer these because I can read it 10x faster than waiting for a cutscene to finish. >I can't immerse myself when the interactions are being directed like that.
Yeah these are true for me too, which is why I enjoyed WotR much more than BG3 but I realize that this may not appeal to all players so I usually try to list the objective differences.
I think they did a great job with BG3, but i feel much less like i'm my character. That and while the game's tracking of what's happening is quite good, some conversation just feel schizoid, like the game doesn't take itself seriously(it doesn't, and it knows it's just a game). That's fine, but doesn't really fit the generally serious tone of the story. I do enjoy the random gore.
>The visuals are definitely worse. Most of the interactions are text+voice based instead of those "zoom-in" shots in BG3 for example
How is that a bad thing?
I can't immerse myself when the interactions are being directed like that.
It's more of an RPG, it's much more focused on the standard CRPG combat and it does that standard combat better.
BG3 allows more creative approaches and is more of an immersive sim RPG, like 50 50 split. It's less hit man, cast spell, roll high, yes good and more "drop 10 explosive barrels behind the guy while your bard plays his flute then set a goblin on fire and throw him at the barrels"
Both are great games. They're very different. Every other CRPG aspect of each is very good.
>And more actual roleplaying >BG3
BG3 is the poster child of illusion of choice. Nothing you do has any actual impact in the story besides a slight cutscene edit at the end of the game that may as well be a level above ME3 tier. The most unique thing you can do is get the Gale nuke end and even the fricking game goes "lmao this isn't the actual ending try again".
If this was an actual game with balls you would be able to join Raphael off the bat and become a Devil. Warlocks and Paladins would have their own unique storyline that would give them a unique path due to their Gods/Patrons being so important to them. You would be able to join the Absolute and help them snuff out the resistance trying to stop them and possible ursup the throne of one of the big three and become a chosen of one of the Gods, similar to the Urge. >oh heckerino the tome I got gave me a debuff! This totally alters the game! RP is awesome!!!
Thats not even true, the opening choice comes up in every act and decides which companion you get for the course of the campaign. You're going to have to define what you consider a meaningful choice to be otherwise you're just talking out of your ass.
>companions >meaningful choice
You can do shar's dungeon without shadowheart. You can fight the vampire without the homosexual vampires. You can fight Raphael without Wyll. You can shit all over the gith and their queen without Lae. Companions do not give any meaningful choice that alters anything major in the game, just fluff.
WoTR isn't any better, you still have to go through all the acts (get to the citadel, go to alushinyra, come back), you can't just frick off, you HAVE to lead the crusade.
It’s just the inherent sin of not having a real DM to craft more open ended finales to the main stories based on character decisions. I hope Larian breaks that curse in future since they do such a great job having the adventure you experience along the way feel so drastically different between players
>BG3 is the posterchild for illusion of choice
What does that make WotR then? Since the only difference between an Angel/Demon/Lich/Legend/Azata/Aeon campaign is the ending slides
>multiple endings for all characters (companions, antagonists, side characters etc.) >multiple post-ending world states based on your action and even the Path (e.g. Aeon)
How can you even think WotR is not miles better than BG3 in that department?
I don't give a shit about ending slides. Who cares? It isn't gameplay. The plot developments and narrative that happen during the actual game and how they diverge between gameplay segments in response to your actions is what matters, not the power point presentation at the end of it all.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Baldur's gate 3 is the same shit at best, you go to the same places but you can be moronic evil or do-gooder. You can ignore, but it's just fricking yourself out of loot and experience as the game has no time mechanics like Pathfinder.
>And more actual roleplaying
LOL LMAO
You [race] and [class] reactivity dialogues leads nowhere. It's all lies and you are a moron. >And actual combat AI
Game is so easy on tactician, it can be used as kindergarten game to assist in infant development.
Is Fearsome Leader a strong dip for a martial melee character?
You get to join 1 Order wiht all of its benefits
You get Dazzling Display for free.
You get +1 animal companion level.
You get Heavy armor proficiency.
You also get this https://pathfinderwrathoftherighteous.wiki.fextralife.com/Fearsome+Inspiration
Although it might not be so good if you stay at level one. So it might not be worth that mich.
Crane wing isn't actually glitched in the ttrpg, anon.
Crane wing doesn't beat someone with TWF and a shield spell.
Having a "free hand" is important, you can't take it as a caster because while casting your hand isn't free.
The true hack is carrying a shield ring, frick magic missile.
You know that game system is moronic when everyone is recommending to install buff manager mod that will cast buffs for you.
Otherwise after the ~midpoint you will be wasting a few minutes before every encounter to cast buffs or gimping yourself by not using then.
Also armor is straight up useless. Want to have a good defence? Doping 1lvl into monk class will get your warrior a better defence than a plate armor.
This is the"le.amazing build variery.
Game system is straight up moronic and untested shit. Imagine releasing a rpg game where armor is literally useless.
>Game system is straight up moronic and untested shit. Imagine releasing a rpg game where armor is literally useless
It's not useless, it's just overshadowed by other things, it still works fine on core
No, at max it's 14 AC, and it scales with your mythic ranks so you won't be getting that until near the end of the game
It's still better than armor, I'm not denying that mind you
It's not worth playing. Honestly a terrible game with reddit party members and anime tier story. I uninstalled in the middle of Act 2 because it was fricking insufferable.
>and anime tier story
What is anime tier? Is all anime the same? Berserk and Naruto and Konosuba are the same? If you dislike anime why are you browsing a website that literally has "chan" in it's name?
>Order of the Sword >Knight's Challenge: At 15th level, the Cavalier can make a knight's challenge once per day. This functions like a normal Challenge, but the Cavalier adds his Charisma bonus on all attack rolls and damage rolls made against the target of his challenge. In addition, he receives a +4 circumstance bonus on attack rolls made to confirm critical hits against the target of his Knight's Challenge.
Now that I think about it, don't the Azata also get a very special animal companion for mounting?
That could be some nice synergies with order of the Sword.
Yep. Aivu is one very powerful mount but the downside is that she is unusable for the majority of the game unless you are a Gnome or cast reduce person on yourself. plus i am pretty sure you still have your horse companion too
I just checked, it looks like her STR value isn't very high, Probably best to treat aivu as a separate character than a mount.
Order of the Sword has some special tricks that scale in power the more STR your mount has.
So I should probably pick Triceratops or something with really high STR base.
BG3 definitely has higher production values (full voice acting for all dialogue, mo-capped performances, etc), but WotR has far more depth and complexity when it comes to character building. It's definitely worth playing if you want a CRPG that has more running under the hood in terms of mechanics.
1E has more build autism than 5E could ever hope to have.
It does have issues with 10,000 pre-buffs before every fight which the conc system in 5E avoids.
5E tying ASI to feat slots basically makes feats irrelevant in 5E
Pros and cons to both, I'm more a a build autist myself. I think a Pathfinder 2E game mite b fun.
>there are min-max gays with stupidly dumb negative stats and immersion-breaking class dipping
you should only be allowed to multiclass if you're going for a prestige class and then you can only level up the prestige class or any of the requirement classes
>HURRRRR IT'S MY GAME AND I BOUGHT IT SO I'MA DO WHAT I WANT
not an argument
Lol that guys moronic. I made the most broken slayer with no dips just off grabbing synergistic feats. They’re just no brained dips that won’t frick up a build where as other dips can be a bit uncharted territory
do people really use buffs that much that they need a mod to make it easier?
everything except bosses can easily be cleared with like two buff spells total on core
I'm playing BG3 and I miss not getting exp from passing skill checks, it's such a moronic decision, most of the time there is no reason not to kill someone, it's just a waste of exp
bg3 is boringly easy and 5e has like 3 builds
wotr may be jank but at least it's not baby's first crpg
kingmaker has far more soul though, that one really feels like a full tabletop campaign that takes place over years, unlike bg3 which still feels like a video game adventure over a week
I mean, sure, but lets not pretend like not having a fluff epilogue is more important than the fricking swarm or gold dragon dogshit in wotr. Have they even fixed their lack of content?
Those are meme paths. If you played angel, demon, or lich you would not be lacking in content.
You can't complain about lack of content but hype up BG3. Which suffer from the same shit, like the evil options in BG3 being half baked, which include Minthara being half a companion, the amount of story not being comparable in depth compared to being good, or even missing out on some of the best items in the game.
Not to mention the mind flayer dilemma where you have to choose who becomes one no matter what choices you make throughout the game. Doesn't matter if you're half illithid or never touched a tadpole you get the same content.
I know BG3 is shiny and new, but have some standards.
>Entire premise of the game are the mythic paths >uhhhh bro those are the meme ones bro you have to play these three (actually two because you're moronic if you think lich comes even close to demon let alone angel)
>but hype up BG3
When the frick did I do that? I think BG3 is a massive let down and overhyped but at least the stories they have (Tav and Urge) have proper endings even if Urge is 95% the same shit as Tav. There's no unique path that opens up 90% of the game that's shallow as frick
Two different beasts. Pathfinder has a lot better build autism and much funner camp party interactions. But it’s basically a separate scenario simulator of random Dm sessions, which is fine but you really could outpace a lot of the scenarios whereas BG3 has a smoother progression with slow leveling and capping at 12.
I find BG3 had a lot more creativity toward approaching situations despite PF being far better mechanically. That early-mid game pre-buff before every fight was tedious until buffs started lasting longer than a couple minutes. Likewise I found it a bit easy to just break around this middle arc area. I had never played anything but kingmaker and accidentally created the most ridiculous setup for winning. BG3 isn’t hard but I got caught a lot more with my pants down. In the end both are great and have their own merits
How's the overall storyline? I don't play CRPGs for mechanics autism, but for stuff like character interactions and interesting plots. How does WotR hold up to BG3?
>WoTR writing and choices are better because... you get a different cutscene at the end
Wooooooooow
I've played through the game 3 times, as oracle angel, barbarian demon and witch lich, the narrative barely changes, all you get is more thematic dialogue options that usually don't lead to anything different. >have sickly grey skin and white hair due to being touched by death itself >the holy banner you recovered literally transformed before everybody's eyes into a crowned skull >construct a massive ziggurat surrounded by a graveyard size half of the fricking city >ask the tavernkeep what's the atmosphere like and what people think of me >"uh hmmmm all is well but some people think you're not a actually chosen of Iomedae :^)"
I did a lich playthrough for my first one and it really ruined it for me because I realized immediately that there is no variation between playthroughs besides who I choose for my core party and what extra gimmicks I get. why are modern devs allergic to actual player agency LET MY ACTIONS HAVE NARRATIVE CONSEQUENCES HOLY SHIT
Kingmaker has a great story that feels like a proper CAMPAIGN and not some tiny 1 week adventure like every bioware game, which ultimately BG3 is the inheritor of. Once you play it through nothing can compare and everything feels small and artificial, video-gamey
WOTR doesnt quite have the same sense of scale
Story line is perfectly fun. Ultimately both are praised for open ended choices and accused of railroading into endings kinda. Just the nature of a crpg without a Dm to actively re-write planned endings. BG3 provides a lot more fun individual scenarios to me where you really get immersed in randomly getting caught up in bullshit, the companions are hit or miss.
Pathfinder is fun with a lot of options but I just don’t seem to remember specific scenarios like I do in BG where I dicked around in goblin territory roleplaying sneaking around to assassinate the camp , fell through a hole and found myself caught in an underground fungal gestalt conscious communities politics. The characters can really shine but some quest lines are forgettable. Pathfinder has a real fun party dynamic to your adventure. You could put a crew of dynamically opposed personalities and constantly find new dialogue at the campfire or growth between companions, companions could change based on your behavior remarkably well w/o compromising their core character. Most quest lines were great too. The general story is solid as well. Larian has a problem with legit giving you an amazing freedom of choice for decisions but having the endings kinda funnel to the same place, pathfinder less so but you have way less options for going about individual missions. Literally everybody I talk to went about BG have starkly different stories and got a different adventure along the way.
I just stopped caring and now play exclusively on casual, if all the homework before fights wasn't enough to burn my patience, then the out-of-nowhere difficulty mountains sure did the job.
Really Wrath breaks even difficulty wise great mid way through but is too easy at the end. Same with kingmaker but instead kingmaker had random bullshit scenarios early.
BG isn’t as hard but I really found myself caught unaware due to my personal decisions and scrambling to get out of situations way more often. Likewise despite the simplicity of combat the approach to battles was so free form.
BG3 is incredibly easy, all you need is 2 hand crossbows and start maxing tadpole powers because there's zero consequence to doing even if you partially turn into a mindflayer. Then you do fighter 5 with speed/haste and you're killing like 3--8 people on turn 1 while always going first. Dark Urge is even more broken because you get a unique item that turns you invisible per kill
Yeah exactly, making builds is easy. I never focused on worrying about breaking the game with the best builds, anything not moronic worked.
I just found a lot of difficulty just came from roleplaying and getting myself into a fricked situation or that I could approach that dark dwarf camp in a “friendly manner” while systematically poisoning, letting loose bulls, setting up uprisings, bombs, just shanking somebody caught alone etc. to set up the final outcome. As long as you don’t try to set up the most autistic build you can find a decent challenge.
Pathfinders build autism alone just always had me inherently breaking the game by the end. I wouldn’t even mean too you just kinda had too since success in PF on high difficulties takes proper planning and thought. You don’t have to think about everything but since they were nice enough to give you the core set of feats and features to look forward to you just ended up synergizing feats and mowing down everything thoughtlessly after buffing up by the later half.
WoTR advantages:
- Way more build variety, to an autistic degree. If you want to play on core difficulty or above you must know the Pathfinder system or look up builds. There are simply too many options, and many build options require you to have known about them when making previous build decisions.
- Mythic paths are pretty badass.
- Itemization is probably the best I've ever seen in a game. It's like they hired actual geniuses to come up with item descriptions. You will very often find an item that makes you go, "holy frick, this just made my build insane".
- Detailed UI and excellent combat log. The game explains every mechanic and roll.
- Good power fantasy
Disadvantages:
- Combat is wide as an ocean, but deep as a puddle. Everything simply comes down to maximizing your AC and attack bonuses. There are hundreds of spells, and the vast majority of them are about increasing your numbers or decreasing your enemy numbers. BG3's combat is considerably more dynamic, despite having fewer spells and abilities
- Difficulty scaling is horrendous. Higher difficulties merely bloat enemy stats. The problem is that you don't overcome this by playing smarter, using better tactics or positioning, or using environmental tools; rather, you simply stack more buffs and debuffs to increase your numbers and decrease enemy numbers. Higher difficulties give enemies more abilities, but these are inconsequential compared to the numbers game.
- Roleplaying decisions are not as meaningful or significant as BG3; most decisions are usually good vs evil.
- Crusade management does not match the quality of the rest of the game. It feels lazy and tacked on, but I personally didn't mind it.
- Production value is much lower. There is very, very little voice acting, but a frick ton of text. I'm someone who reads for fun, and the amount of text in this game is excessive.
>Roleplaying decisions are not as meaningful or significant as BG3; most decisions are usually good vs evil.
I don't know, it's like people are blind or something. BG3 got less choices than a fricking mass effect.
>BG3 got less choices than a fricking mass effect.
No, it really doesn't.
Oh and crusade overworld was bad but the council was great. Loved hearing peoples opinions and actually seeing choices matter role playing wise later
>Loved hearing peoples opinions and actually seeing choices matter role playing wise later
I agree. The characters' council opinions are well thought out.
>No, it really doesn't.
Yeah, it does. ME got consequences across multiple games. BG3 got no consequences even across two chapters. Also >non lethal
lmao
My only detraction to the items was the legit lack of variety to some. It seemed like they out more effort into items they knew characters would use like regills gnome hooks, or the mercenary guys axes. I went dual sword route and was horribly disappointed to see so many cool weapons in other classes while I had radiance. I respecced ultimately just for weapon proficiency reasons, didn’t change a feat otherwise. Otherwise you’re completely correct, I loved looking at my treasure trove at the end and thinking of all the builds I coulda made
I would list the strict vertical difficulty as a pro and a con. Sometimes it's fun to just stack as many bonuses as you can find, there's a certain autistic satisfaciton to it.
Off topic but I just want to complain how the Gith monks that attack you at the beginningof act 3 are called githyanki when they should obviouslybe githzerai. It really grinds my gears that the story introduced this subplot about a gith civil war and it was just githyanki against githyanki. Imo they should have spun it so that the githzerai were the ones trying to free Orpheus. The secession of their race is one of the most integral parts of gith lore, next to their eternal war on the mindflayers. It's a damn shame that the story never really addressedthis beyond one note at the the githyanki creche.
don't githzerai want peace with mindlfayers? having them included at all would be weird since it's beat over your head that mindflayers are soulless fricks only good for killing.
yeah 2 morons are not gonna sway my opinion on the whole mindflayer race. i didnt kill both those morons but omelum seems to be the only one who isnt shady.. and he still was kind of shady with his potion. fricking bastard.
>still didnt find a proper shield tank that isnt the Black
I should stop being lazy and respec Regill into a Tank and get an Undead Companion to replace him.
I've just got to the army management bit and holy shit this is horrendous. The battles are so fricking slow but auto battle just gets you slaughtered.
Frick this.
Where the Citadel DLC with Arue x KC wedding at?
I want to throw a massive party at the KC's crib after fighting the KC's demon clone who tried to usurp the Crusade and bring it down from within while pretending to be them.
Throne of Bhaal, DAO Awakening
Inevitable Excess happens RIGHT BEFORE the final battle, and you're technically not even playing as your own character
10 months ago
Anonymous
Ahhh, I see. Well there isn't much to do after you kill Areelu, maybe hunt down some remaining demon enclaves in the Worldwound? I don't know what more they could have added to that story, also how do you account for players who decided to sacrifice themselves to close the Wound? Or to Ascend?
10 months ago
Anonymous
I don't, I also think that a post game DLC would make no sense thanks to all the different endings you can get
Well, it COULD work if they made up some excuse to justify your character being suddenly alive or somehow losing godhood, but that would be just lazy
Play BG1. It's a low level adventure so you start at level 1 with practically no abilities other than 1 spell or just auto-attack. Plays more like a hack-and-slash than a modern CRPG because of that and slowly scales up the complexity as you level, but still doesn't get crazy until you hit BG2.
Play NWN2
I'd say play 1, but if you don't play a rogue you have to take Tomi with you everywhere you go, and you'll want to have a nice day before Chapter 1 is over
That's also an option. But moving anywhere in a dungeon or interacting with containers/doors is basically russian roulette for whoever's with you, because while you might tank that trap, they sure as shit won't.
Assuming they didn't see an enemy through three walls and go into a bloodfrenzy, charging through an entire hallway of traps because you neglected to set their behaviour again.
Just keep it simple, focus on maximizing what works for each class, prioritize your a major stats in point allocation and keep a varied party. You don’t have to worry about double dipping or multi classing. Almost every crpg lets you grab a fighter wizard and ranger/rogue and beat the game
If you enjoy build variety for combat PF is a great game.
If you want to play it for the story you will be sorely dissappointed. The writing that gets constant praise here isnt that good. It gets praise because the average PF enjoyer on this board is addled with anime brainrot. The level of writing is on par with that of seasonal anime slop. Combine that with the incessant waifubait owlcat seems to put in every game and youll understand why autists on this board fall hook, line and sinker for the drek that is owlcat writing.
You can even see them itt, replacing every portrait with animu garbage in the game.
Now theres nothing wrong with enjoying anime tier slop, but lets not pretend were reinventing IE narrative games here.
For me the praise of owl cats writing is their excellent interactions between companions. I love that I can put any random party together and get interesting interactions at each campfire all the way to the end.
I agree that the scope of interactions they accounted for is commendable. That doesnt mean the writing is any good.
Owlcats were forced to rewrite the story of the original campaign and made it into something great. Larian had complete creative freedom and still created a copy of BG 1 story.
Except its not great, its full of cliche stylistic choice where characters feel one dimensional >but larian!
Noone mentioned larian what do they have to do with it
Show me writing from wotr or km you think is good and we'll discuss it
>Except its not great
It is, for people who experienced true loss in their lives. Areelu's noble luciferian rebellion against uncaring universal laws is the second-best story in western RPGs.
Narrative does not equate writing. If lotr was written like wotr it would not be very good even if the narrative beats were identical
>Narrative does not equate writing
What exactly you don't like about writing, then? Or what do you want to see? A lot of pathos like in classical fantasy?
10 months ago
Anonymous
My main gripe is that owlcat has a tendency to overwrite. Its a lot of tell and very little show. They seem to not want to or not be capable of being succinct or poignant in dialogue. Characters tell you their thoughts instead of infering them from how they act. They also constantly fall into the classic rpg trap of loredumping through dialogue, leaving very little to imagination
A bit of pathos wouldnt be remiss idd
>Show me writing from wotr or km you think is good and we'll discuss it
We all know that no matter what I will show you nothing's gonna be good enough. You're not interesting in arguing, you're here just to shit up this thread.
Im more than willing to discuss I know why I hold my opinions, do you?
10 months ago
Anonymous
I, too, know what I'm supposed to think. The internet has made it very clear to me.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>tendency to overwrite
That is a limitation of game format, nothing more. Nothing can be done about that, apart from writing an actual book with the same story properly expanded.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Not really, it can be done. Its not that hard to show me why x cult of y god is evil without loredumping. Show me through different npc interactions, converts etc..
Dont give me a long explanation with a million adjectives and 2 hamfisted metaphors when one will do and leave the rest to my imagination
>My main gripe is that owlcat has a tendency to overwrite.
Boy, just you wait until you play an Obisidian game.
For PoE I absolutely agree, although I fond their loredumps to be stylistically not quite so jarring as owlcat
>My main gripe is that owlcat has a tendency to overwrite.
Boy, just you wait until you play an Obisidian game.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>Its not that hard to show me why x cult of y god is evil without loredumping
Terrible example, every cultist you see in this game is always doing some evil shit like killing someone, making them betray the crusade, and you usually find them with corpses around them
10 months ago
Anonymous
>Its not that hard to show me why x cult of y god is evil without loredumping.
Can you give me one example of this happening in the game?
10 months ago
Anonymous
>My main gripe is that owlcat has a tendency to overwrite.
Boy, just you wait until you play an Obisidian game.
10 months ago
Anonymous
I understand your complaint, overwriting is not necessarily good writing or good dialogue even if the concepts are good, I’ve never been a fan of writers like Dostoevsky despite the themes they approach. But as a text based crpg I do think it’s a bit of a sin of the format. If they didn’t there would be just as many people talking about lack of a story. Would be nice if somebody could hit that niche of letting inferences be made
>Show me writing from wotr or km you think is good and we'll discuss it
We all know that no matter what I will show you nothing's gonna be good enough. You're not interesting in arguing, you're here just to shit up this thread.
>Show me writing from wotr or km you think is good and we'll discuss it
inb4 <nooo stop having fun
10 months ago
Anonymous
I dont know what your intention was to present this, its certainly less egregious than most of the interactions in the game, but it also seems quite banal and tropey? I dont mind it, but also wouldnt put it up there in terms of well written dialogue
10 months ago
Anonymous
Its one of the few pieces of writing in any game that just portrays me, the player, being un-apologetically and unreservedly cruel and spiteful, and it does it in a way that perfectly carries the emotion of the action.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>and it does it in a way that perfectly carries the emotion of the action.
I strongly disagree on that point, where does the underlying emotion of the player character come across?
10 months ago
Anonymous
>You strike her down with a single blow. Her body crumples to the floor
Shows that this is not just not a battle, instead emphasis is put on the fact that it is a merciless killing of a defenseless woman. This tells you a lot about the protagonist's values and thoughts at the time. You can easily imagine the kind of person who wouldn't think twice about such an act. >and she begins to choke on her own blood
This drives home the cruelty of it. She dies slowly, and painfully. Its not a necessary, clean death by an evil calculating man. It is the slow and miserable death delivered by a tyrant who takes if not pleasure, at least satisfaction in watching his opponents and his opponents' pawns suffer.
Those last few sentences drive home the entire scene, it uses "show don't tell" to express the emotion of the actions far better than tediously explaining what is going on in the character's mind, or describing the body language which you can instead infer.
The lead up can be interpreted two ways, the sadness as her disappointment and lack of fear as being faith in her goddess which would make her retribution all the sweeter. Or the sadness in her knowledge that she is reciting her own eulogy and the lack of fear being that she has already accepted the inevitable results of her goddess' instructions. This leads into her claim of protection. Either she knows she will die but believes herself to be beyond your power in death as she will enter the domain of her goddess, in which case the only unfortunate part is that you can't prove her wrong, or that she falsely believes her goddess will protect her, which 9as mentioned above) makes her suffering all the sweeter, as it gives her time to feel the betrayal of her trust.
10 months ago
Anonymous
I agree, the players dialogue doesn’t need to be overly wordy itself since you as an avatar should fill in the gaps a bit. Obv owl cat doesn’t always knock it out of the park but I can truly remember some good dialogue moments I really appreciated and it gave me good options to get my opinion I felt at the time across
>Except its not great
It is, for people who experienced true loss in their lives. Areelu's noble luciferian rebellion against uncaring universal laws is the second-best story in western RPGs.
What a cuck you are. Areelu had a will to power required for achieving the impossible. But you would just accept Demiurge's boot on your face because it is "natural order".
10 months ago
Anonymous
>causing loss for others because you can't accept your own loss
only cuck here is you. strength means stoic behavior, not temper tantrums.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>strenght is only my singular definition
Awfully onedimensional of you anon.
10 months ago
Anonymous
There is nothing more pathetic than a willing slave like you. No wonder you don't understand what made Areelu great.
10 months ago
Anonymous
That Spartacus guy? Pfft, what a cuck!
10 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, he was supposed to just accept Roman order, like normal people!
10 months ago
Anonymous
You're the slave in this situation. You're a slave to your desire, to the things you want and anyone who can give them to you. The only free man is a man who depends on nothing emotionally.
10 months ago
Anonymous
you make yourself a slave when you refuse to let go. who's more of a slave, the guy who just doesn't care and stays emotionally calm or the person who's rocked by passion every day of their life because they're too immature to let go?
>Just admit defeat, bro. Don't struggle against deific tyrants, bro. When you demonstrate your power, it makes you weak!
People like you exist to be killed by people like Areelu Vorlesh. That is the only thing you're good for.
10 months ago
Anonymous
you make yourself a slave when you refuse to let go. who's more of a slave, the guy who just doesn't care and stays emotionally calm or the person who's rocked by passion every day of their life because they're too immature to let go?
The game's story is great compared to the original, but your shitty mommy fetish bait sure as hell isn't, Deskari should have been the final boss and Areelu should have been nothing more than a very powerful mook as she was originally
Owlcats were forced to rewrite the story of the original campaign and made it into something great. Larian had complete creative freedom and still created a copy of BG 1 story.
I need an item that works with this.
Something that gives me 1 fire damage on myself occasionally.
I think I misunderstood the ability completely. Since there are apparently completely different groups of orders.
It sucks, but I guess the Sword is the best Cavalier order in the end anyway.
I don't necessarily disagree with this.
Lion order does seem to be the best balanced.
At level 1 his order get dodge bonus which stacks with other dodge bonuses. And this scales up to +5 dodge bonus at level 17. That really is the best level 1 ability.
At level 2, they get some fine flavour ability against fear. This scales with charisma so it's kid of as good as immunity to fear/frightened/panics.
At level 8, For the King is very strong, but it only last 1 round.
But if you engage in multiple combats per day, this actually scales up to many rounds. In a sense if we consider how WotR is structured, this can potentially become many, many rounds per day in total.
But the Order of the Sword can scale Charisma to attack and damage for as long at the boss is alive.
One is a boss killer, the other makes the overall game smoother.
The level 2 also gives a +1 competence bonus to attack rolls that lasts the entire fight and into the next one at higher levels.
10 months ago
Anonymous
But now consider order of the Sword
Level 1: >+1 a morale bonus >The bonus increases by +1 for every four levels
Kind of worthless if you already have a bard or Sensei etc.
But it you don't, it's kind of useful.
Level 2: >As long as he maintains the selected Alignment, he receives a +2 morale bonus to one saving throw of his choice.
Meh, equivalent of 1 feat.
Level 8: >Mounted Mastery: At 8th level, whenever the Cavalier makes a charge attack while mounted, he adds his mount's Strength modifier to the damage roll, in addition to his own. He also receives a bonus feat, chosen from the following list: Indomitable Mount, Mounted Combat, Mounted Shield, Spirited Charge, or Trample. He must qualify for the feat selected.
This on the other hand, might actually be about as OP as For the King.
We all know mounts have incredibly high STR.
And it lasts infinite rounds.
And this STR scaling bonus stacks with the Charisma scaling bonus form the level 15 ability.
Level 15: >Knight's Challenge
Really, really, really OP, But it's unfortunate you only get it late.
I would say order of the Lion helps you from start to finish. Unlike sword.
They both have similarly OP level 8 abilities.
At level 15 and above the Sword is more powerful, but you don't have access to this until late into the game.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Oh shit. guys.
>He also receives a bonus feat, chosen from the following list: Indomitable Mount, Mounted Combat, Mounted Shield, Spirited Charge, or Trample
This part is actually important.
>Spirited Charge >When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with melee weapons.
Depending on which part of the damage formula gets doubled, it could potentially be really OP
But the way it's formulated is kind of like the level 20 Cavalier ability
Except order of the Sword gets this level 20-like ability at level 8.
That's wiiiiiild.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Have you been living under a rock? Yes, cavalier is great for charge builds
10 months ago
Anonymous
Did everybody pick order of the Sword or something?
I thought we came to the convulsion the order of the Lion is strong too.
Only in the beginning. Reaching your true potential and transforming into true demon will make you evil.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Guess I'll roleplay a redemption story then. Sucks.
10 months ago
Anonymous
It's the superior option
10 months ago
Anonymous
Is this Legend? I really should do a Legend playthrough sometime, mainly because it's supposed to be even more busted and OP than any of the mythic paths.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>mainly because it's supposed to be even more busted and OP than any of the mythic paths
It's not, casuals are just bad at the game and Legend is the easiest one to build (40 levels of full bab classes)
10 months ago
Anonymous
Is this Legend? I really should do a Legend playthrough sometime, mainly because it's supposed to be even more busted and OP than any of the mythic paths.
do people pick mythic paths for builds instead of rp?
10 months ago
Anonymous
I don't, but many people play for build autism only
10 months ago
Anonymous
it's a PF game what do you think
10 months ago
Anonymous
fair
at least on core it's not necessary to build that way
10 months ago
Anonymous
I first my a character in my head and then make character around it.
It's good, I enjoyed it and Kingmaker a lot. It's more build autism focused which I really enjoy. Both games feel like huge adventures. I'm sure I'll come back to it even after playing BG3 a bunch. BG3 is more of a sandboxy game with how freely you can mess with NPCs and towns. Pathfinder has no such mechanics as far as I remember, and very limited exploration mechanically, you just roll to discover a hidden thing or don't.
Holy shit, guys the Calvaliers are really OP
Lion order.
Level 8: >For the King: At 8th level, an Order of the Lion Cavalier can call out to his allies, inspiring them to greatness. As a Swift Action, the Cavalier can grant a competence bonus equal to his Charisma modifier on all attack and damage rolls to all allies within 30 feet. This bonus lasts for 1 round. This ability can be used once per combat.
Level 15: >Shield of the Liege: At 15th level, an Order of the Lion Cavalier can protect those around him. Allies that are adjacent to the Cavalier receive a +3 shield bonus to their AC.
>Might atill be worth it if your charisma's high enough.
That's what I'm thinking.
It allies to all allies, including summoned creatures and mounts.
Just imagine a simple +15 charisma modifier or even +20.
You can probably make much bugger charisma modifier than +20 if you knew what you were doing.
>competence bonus
Not that good because in your team you should always have either a community domain cleric or a skald >https://pathfinderkingmaker.fandom.com/wiki/Bonuses_(WotR)
>Have to constantly say "hey Im talking to an npc now" to let others know because the game does jackshit to let other people know >Or have to constantly summarize what happened to your mates
Nah it's a shitshow if you actually want to know what's going on
The 10x10 pixel eye is so easy to miss out on, especially on bigger screens. It's shit design that makes the whole multiplayer experience an uncohesive drag and all they needed to do to fix it was a small sound effect or something.
10 months ago
Anonymous
it's as big as the character icons what are you smoking?
Would you prefer an alarm going off each time somebody starts a conversation? It's also mentioned in the log when somebody starts one
off all the things to complain about this is the least of the problems bg3 has
10 months ago
Anonymous
It's not even the same aspect ratio so it factually cannot be as big moron, fricking Gankerermin I swear
10 months ago
Anonymous
ok and the fact that the game lets you know "x is starting a conversation" in the log?
It's a crpg so you are meant to be keep an eye on it damn near constantly
10 months ago
Anonymous
>Trying to immerse yourself in the setting >annoying ping sound effect every time a co-op partner talks to one of the thousand NPCs
That sounds like dogshit design bro
10 months ago
Anonymous
>Open inventory >Someone speaks to an NPC >Turns out it was something important/cool/funny >Entirely miss out on it because you weren't staring at the 10 pixels at the very edge of your screen
I know which option I would prefer
10 months ago
Anonymous
My friends and I would alert each other with a quick "check this out dude" every time a funny/interesting conversation happened. Never really missed much because we'd tell each other immediately when the cool shit was happening. Didn't check any private conversation boxes too so that we could all be privy. Sucks that your "friends" won't even do something as simple as that for you, enough that you'd list it as a major complaint about the game.
Pros
Far more class and build diversity
Larger party size by default
Can create OCs with customized portraits
Mounted Combat
Mythic paths offer more of an exclusive routing experience
Combat is more difficult
Get to rip and tear demons all day
Your choice of romance between a cute succubus, a murderous psychopath, a bugcat, an aging fossil, and some other gay shit options.
Cons
Combat is more difficult
Game doesn't look as attractive
The overall world isn't as reactive and fleshed out as BG3's
Have to deal with Crusade Mode
Hope you like rip and tearing demons all day
Sex is just text with fade to black
If you ever ran into technical issues playing BG3, just wait until you try your hand at Russian coding
get both
baldur's gate 3 not 2 or the first one is a good entrance for the newbie into crpg
then you can try your hand on wrath of the righteous because the class is more complex and you have to know how to build some of the class or you will feel very under power
or you could try kingmaker before getting in wrath of the righteous
DAO is a much better introduction to CRPGs
BG3 is way too watered down and does some fundamental shit completely wrong, like not even showing you what a class is gonna do later at character creation
>bg3 too watered down >suggests dao
dao has the most basic progression system and shallowest class/subclass depth of most crpgs.
It's much simpler than 5e
>bg3 too watered down >suggests dao
dao has the most basic progression system and shallowest class/subclass depth of most crpgs.
It's much simpler than 5e
Newcomers to the genre should just play Pillars of Eternity. As flawed as it is, it does serve as an excellent gateway entry to crpgs. It's not even that long compared to the Larian and Owlbear games.
>play Pillars of Eternity
The only reason I'd suggest Pillars to anyone is as a homeopathic sleeping aid
That game revels in being verbose to the point of masturbation, and the combat is so lukewarm and flaccid you wouldn't know you're actually fighting if not for the damage numbers floating away
>and the combat is so lukewarm and flaccid you wouldn't know you're actually fighting if not for the damage numbers floating away
you do realise the same can be said of both pf games right?
You just described the pre-Larian Baldur's Gate games. DAO is like that too. Just characters doing a swing or casting animation until on of them dies. DA2 was shit but at least it's combat was flashier to look at than the rockem sockem fighting in Origins.
It's not even just the feedback, but that there are no standout builds and skills in Pillars. Everything fun was balanced into mediocrity by that autistic frick, Sawyer. The result is painfully slow encounters.
DAO might not be flashy but at least a fight is over in a timely fashion if your team's competent.
DAO is a much better introduction to CRPGs
BG3 is way too watered down and does some fundamental shit completely wrong, like not even showing you what a class is gonna do later at character creation
that if you want an unconventional CRPG that's still a good intro DA:O is great. It lulls people into a false sense of security because it's pretending to be an ARPG.
I'm kind of meh about the game itself, but Tyranny is also a good intro CRPG because >it's really fricking easy >it's really fricking short >it has a shitty ending like a lot of CRPGs >it's easy to make weird builds that still function >it encourages you to branch out and do fun RP stuff because you're the bad guy >neat magic system >has just enough of the management systems common to CRPGs to give you a taste without it being overwhelming for a newcomer >it's kind of mediocre, so it doesn't set you up to be disappointed by the rest of the genre, but it isn't so bad it spoils the genre for you
If Age of Decadence weren't so ball-bustingly hard on a first playthrough it'd probably be the best intro CRPG, though.
better gameplay depth and ruleset, worse spectacle
not many games allow the level of character progression freedom that wotr provides
the only one that trumps it mechanically in that aspect is path of exile, but poe also doesn't let you live out the ramifications of being a lich for example
BG3 feels outdated to even NWN1 build/spells/feats wise, when compared to Pathfinder it feels like it was made 30 years ago.
BG3 is easily the bimbo of cRPGs, it only excels at graphics and voice acting which are the least important aspects of a good cRPG
Even Deadfire offers more build variety
NWN's UI makes me cum buckets >Right click on my cast target to pull up an action wheel >Click spells >Brings up another wheel for spell levels >Don't have to go scrolling through tiny menus hunting for the spell I want to cast
The game will feel different not outdated.
The fact the game is not fully voiced means there are many more options during dialogues so its a better roleplayng experience.
It also has several Paths thru the story giving it insane replay value.
You literally become a final boss tier monster or a Super hero or just do an epic troll on the entire world or a literal Time cop.
Also its hard for CRPGs to feel outdated.
If anything playing BG3 gives me the urge to go back and play BG1 and 2 and Ice wind dale games.
Lich is amazing for anything that's not a Divine caster, and even then it's only because it's outclassed by Angel in this case.
But Lich is good for any martial, half martial or Arcane character, while Angel is mostly only truly good for Divine.
Vivisectionist is busted good and also quite fitting thematics wise for a Lich.
>CHAMPION WHO TURNED HIMSELF INTO A LICH OR A DEMON, I'M 99% SURE THAT YOU'RE THE CHOSEN ONE OF MY GODDESS BECAUSE.... YOU JUST ARE OKAY? >WAIT YOUR POWERS COME FROM AREELU AND YOU HAD NO IDEA? YOU BETRAYED ME YOU FRICKING PIECE OF SHIT I'M LEAVING YOU TO DIE IN THE ABYSS (unless you play the only path Owlcat wants you to play) >ALSO WHEN YOU TRY TO SAVE MY SORRY ASS AFTER I GOT KIDNAPPED I'M GOING TO SNITCH YOU OUT TO IOMEDAE
No not really. I swear you homosexuals only give him a pass because you played angel first and liked it the most so you like to pretend he doesn't frick you over in literally every other path, even azata or aeon
>I swear you homosexuals only give him a pass because you played angel first and liked it the most so you like to pretend he doesn't frick you over in literally every other path, even azata or aeon >wasting time as a homosexual tree hugger or space jannie
angel is the only correct path.
WORT is a fun game but fricking hell not having Mythic Paths matter until act 5 is fricking moronic and the "evil paths" are especially moronic with homies reacting the same way each time (Demons walking in Drezen or the undead Ziggurat in the middle of the city)
The average citizen is just like "Yep everything here is normal!" :^)
It's an RPG, there's only so dated it can feel. That being said it's a fundamentally different game. Its presentation is inferior to BG3, and interactions are just reading text rather than mini-cutscenes, but I don't really consider that a mark against it. It also demands good knowledge of the systems on higher difficulty, though, where BG3 is based 5e which is designed for the mentally moronic (note I am not saying Pathfinder is a good system), so if you like character build autism WotR has it by the armful. WotR is also much more of a power fantasy game.
>is arue used goods?
She is so used that she transcended into pure virgin with a little help from deific butterfly. >is shadowheart used goods?
All companions in BG 3 are.
Best Cavalier archetypes:
Gendarme
Fearsome Leader
Gerndarme gets a lot of feats, almost like a fighter.
Fearsome Leader gets a very special form of Dazzling Display that also buff party with Good hope. And dispels all fear affects.
Fearsome Leader should be used with order of Sword.
Gendarme should be used with order of Lion.
There are no demon girls (good) to frick in BG3 so that makes it inferior by default
Did they fix the ending?
Two more weeks
is this a meme or is a major patch coming in 2 weeks?
I'm playing PF:KM right now and want to move on to PF:WOTR after.
BG3 has the hotter frickable demon
The graphics are nice and all, but she's not hot. Arue isn't hot either, but a portrait is easy to fix.
>she's not hot
gay
MY WIFE SHADOWHEART NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
It happens to the best of us pal
Way too fat, her belly button is starting to melt.
Wow that's fricked up, I can tell this AI was trained on cyancapsule's art. I got exited for a second and thought he drew something not-furry
AI art is the future frens. Frick troony artists 🙂
AI art is fricking awful
The only people I ever hear say this are art trannies or commision trannies.
No pubes?
This looks like shit, actual art is superior and has a vision and intent behind it. This just looks like unfinished poorly drawn art. Also pic related
🙂 Then stop indulging in it if its so bad art troon. It costs you zero dollars not click and keep scrolling
>not even the pube version
You are an underage pleb
why is it so easy to feel the lack of soul in these
it looks like shit Black person
Not sure about that, most of my top games like Planet Ride and Jungle chase don't use AI art but the graphic is pretty sleek.
instantly noticed too. Crazy how distinctive it is
>AI slop
i'm sorry i don't find stretched out musty old prunes hot. You should have sex already though, because you reek of desperation
Negative breasts
can you frick her and cuck Wyll
You buck break Wyll and send him to hell then this happens. Wyll never fricked Mizora doeeverbeit.
As an incel, I have ceased finding women attractive as they only exist to mock me.
I feel resentment when seeing a b***h's smug face.
What ancient egyptian temple did you find that in?
Your mothers rectum
>getting defensive on behalf of [brand]
>Objectively attractive super model looking demon women
>Gankerirgins say she is ugly
Every time
Westies always give their women man jaws and Bg3 is a known troon game
>Two for one deal
Whats not to like
those are some ugly fricking women on the left jesus christ
>t. bug person fetishist
>Mhnn yeah I like a nice hair man jaw on my woman
>NO YOU'RE THE ONE WITH THE WEIRD FETISH
Okay pal
Anime isn't real life pedro
you should have a nice day
> can't stop thinking about men even when choosing a woman
you absolute homosexual
devil, not demon
Even better!
Tomato potato
Every woman in BG3 is shovel faced, so no
Mizora is so fricking annoying, I can't belive they gave her plot armor to prevent me murdering her when I can kill almost everyone else.
>prostitute with body count in the hundreds but is ready to settle down
You'd like Shadowheart.
I wonder if she will cause you as much shitposting obsession as Arue does.
i thought shadowheart was supposed to be pure
>You'd like Shadowheart.
i do
The graphics are inferior
The build options are probably superior, since it's based on a superior table top ruleset
This is pretty spot on. Less polished but better systems.
Hahahaha.
OP is gay.
One is made by R*ssians other is made by people. You do the math.
z
>Lesbian couple
>Homosexual companion
Nothing about is Russian except the sound of their names.
Trans lesbian couple*
If you call them a lesbian couple you are by defacto saying she is a woman and thus legitimizing trans women.
Exactly, they're a heterosexual, race-mixing couple of mentally ill freaks.
Wait, which one's the man? I avoided talking to both of them after the embarassing hug. Haven't played that much since either.
I bet it's the human. I did think the art looked man-ish.
Anevia is a troony who had their vaginoplasty (this is trans speak for their surgical castration and mutilation) via magical elixir.
>Being upset that 'troony's exist in a setting where you can change your biological sex with a magic belt.
You guys are moronic, fantasy settings should be the only setting where that is 'acceptable' to you.
Its not acceptable ever. Don't pretend this isn't done because of the writer's mental illness. Now go chop off your wiener and balls and use the mutilated flesh to make a pit in the ruins.
The belt was in BG1 you moron
>game treats it as a curse
>doesn't change your voice
It was a joke moron.
It's never acceptable in any setting. Especially not when the story is literally that he's a man who got groomed into it at a young age.
>he's a man who got groomed into it at a young age
Didn't he get the bright idea to become a girl after having to crossdress while evading some cultists and later on he met the orc who sold her sword to buy him a genderbending potion?
I don't see how he was groomed in this scenario.
Pretty sure his parents made him crossdress as a kid to avoid the cult. If he did it as an adult that's just as bad, maybe worse. The message literally being "men who realize they like crossdressing should just become women".
Why do you think I remember their names? Anevia's the human, right? As I said, he looked the most masculine. An achievement over a literal half-orc.
We used to call it genderbending, until you troony obsessed freaks invaded every board outside of /misc/
Are you seriously calling Belgians people?
Considering they make better beer than whatever country you're from, yes.
>t. israelite
Everything feels outdated compared to BG3
>older games feel outdated compared to newer games
Makes you think
Depends on your type of game. An smoothbrain can play BG3 in tactician mode. Mathfinder is more rewarding, but naturally harder for dipshits
It's got pathfinders buildtism but it's also an adventure module straight from paizo so the story is absolutely horrendous and incredibly railroaded. Only play it if you just want to make big numbers and like high level campaigns
>it's also an adventure module straight from paizo
It is modified heavily.
Oh yeah, i remember the lich mythic path from the ttrpg.
Chapter one, 2 and 3 are the only ones somewhat similar, the visit to nocti's land is completely different, then you should get sent into the goat's prison which is a whole chapter(utterly dissapointing in the video game, but it wasn't doable, to be honest), before a five day-rush to izalith to destroy the worldwound, because you've just defeated their heaviest troups at your city and now they understand that they can't actually stop you so they started the world-destruction ritual.
Unlike what they did for Kingmaker, the ttrpg campaign is generally better than the one in video game, the mythic paths are great but also make your companions worthless, and a campaign shouldn't be about just 1 person.
Gameplay and build variety will feel better
Everything else will feel worse
The visuals are definitely worse. Most of the interactions are text+voice based instead of those "zoom-in" shots in BG3 for example. That said Pathfinder has much more build variety and decisions also feels much more impactful. On the other hand, it's more difficult so need to actually think in some situations. Romances are also more tasteful if you'd ask me, but that's a subjective thing so it's up to you.
If this all sounds like your deal then pick it up without hesitation.
You can even become a picrel.
>The visuals are definitely worse. Most of the interactions are text+voice based instead of those "zoom-in" shots in BG3 for example
Honestly I prefer these because I can read it 10x faster than waiting for a cutscene to finish. The animations have to be REALLY good to make cutscenes better than just text on a screen, especially when it's just two homies talking like most RPG scenes.
>Honestly I prefer these because I can read it 10x faster than waiting for a cutscene to finish.
>I can't immerse myself when the interactions are being directed like that.
Yeah these are true for me too, which is why I enjoyed WotR much more than BG3 but I realize that this may not appeal to all players so I usually try to list the objective differences.
I think they did a great job with BG3, but i feel much less like i'm my character. That and while the game's tracking of what's happening is quite good, some conversation just feel schizoid, like the game doesn't take itself seriously(it doesn't, and it knows it's just a game). That's fine, but doesn't really fit the generally serious tone of the story. I do enjoy the random gore.
>like the game doesn't take itself seriously
It's a Larian game.
>The visuals are definitely worse. Most of the interactions are text+voice based instead of those "zoom-in" shots in BG3 for example
How is that a bad thing?
I can't immerse myself when the interactions are being directed like that.
It's more of an RPG, it's much more focused on the standard CRPG combat and it does that standard combat better.
BG3 allows more creative approaches and is more of an immersive sim RPG, like 50 50 split. It's less hit man, cast spell, roll high, yes good and more "drop 10 explosive barrels behind the guy while your bard plays his flute then set a goblin on fire and throw him at the barrels"
Both are great games. They're very different. Every other CRPG aspect of each is very good.
>Both are great games. They're very different.
This. They are both unique in their own ways.
Play kingmaker instead if you really, really don't want to play BG3.
Otherwise play BG3.
The build variety is better and it provides an actual challenge unlike BG3.
The only thing BG3 has better is graphics.
>The only thing BG3 has better is graphics
And more actual roleplaying
And actual combat AI
>And more actual roleplaying
>BG3
BG3 is the poster child of illusion of choice. Nothing you do has any actual impact in the story besides a slight cutscene edit at the end of the game that may as well be a level above ME3 tier. The most unique thing you can do is get the Gale nuke end and even the fricking game goes "lmao this isn't the actual ending try again".
If this was an actual game with balls you would be able to join Raphael off the bat and become a Devil. Warlocks and Paladins would have their own unique storyline that would give them a unique path due to their Gods/Patrons being so important to them. You would be able to join the Absolute and help them snuff out the resistance trying to stop them and possible ursup the throne of one of the big three and become a chosen of one of the Gods, similar to the Urge.
>oh heckerino the tome I got gave me a debuff! This totally alters the game! RP is awesome!!!
Still better than WotR
Thats not even true, the opening choice comes up in every act and decides which companion you get for the course of the campaign. You're going to have to define what you consider a meaningful choice to be otherwise you're just talking out of your ass.
>companions
>meaningful choice
You can do shar's dungeon without shadowheart. You can fight the vampire without the homosexual vampires. You can fight Raphael without Wyll. You can shit all over the gith and their queen without Lae. Companions do not give any meaningful choice that alters anything major in the game, just fluff.
You didnt define what you consider a meaningful choice so you arent arguing in good faith. Im throwing out your post.
I did, learn to read inbred. Look at the last sentence
WoTR isn't any better, you still have to go through all the acts (get to the citadel, go to alushinyra, come back), you can't just frick off, you HAVE to lead the crusade.
>you HAVE to lead the crusade
Yeah, but I lead it my way
It’s just the inherent sin of not having a real DM to craft more open ended finales to the main stories based on character decisions. I hope Larian breaks that curse in future since they do such a great job having the adventure you experience along the way feel so drastically different between players
>BG3 is the posterchild for illusion of choice
What does that make WotR then? Since the only difference between an Angel/Demon/Lich/Legend/Azata/Aeon campaign is the ending slides
>multiple endings for all characters (companions, antagonists, side characters etc.)
>multiple post-ending world states based on your action and even the Path (e.g. Aeon)
How can you even think WotR is not miles better than BG3 in that department?
I don't give a shit about ending slides. Who cares? It isn't gameplay. The plot developments and narrative that happen during the actual game and how they diverge between gameplay segments in response to your actions is what matters, not the power point presentation at the end of it all.
Baldur's gate 3 is the same shit at best, you go to the same places but you can be moronic evil or do-gooder. You can ignore, but it's just fricking yourself out of loot and experience as the game has no time mechanics like Pathfinder.
Wow I walked down the same hallway as the last 5 times but now they showed a slightly different slideshow at the end!
>70 hours of gameplay is the exact same
>two minutes of slides at the end is different though!!!
Show me one CRPG that is not like that.
>And more actual roleplaying
LOL LMAO
You [race] and [class] reactivity dialogues leads nowhere. It's all lies and you are a moron.
>And actual combat AI
Game is so easy on tactician, it can be used as kindergarten game to assist in infant development.
Number bloat isn't challenge.
Tactician number bloats everything just as bad, there's just less difficulty options in BG3.
At least in PF i can fine tune everything.
Is Fearsome Leader a strong dip for a martial melee character?
You get to join 1 Order wiht all of its benefits
You get Dazzling Display for free.
You get +1 animal companion level.
You get Heavy armor proficiency.
You also get this https://pathfinderwrathoftherighteous.wiki.fextralife.com/Fearsome+Inspiration
Although it might not be so good if you stay at level one. So it might not be worth that mich.
>Heavy armour
>PF1e
You will take Crane Wing and you will life it.
I don't care man, I just roleplay and grab some OP charisma boosts on the side.
>You will take Crane Wing and you will life it.
*opens toybox*
*raises my base AC to compensate*
armour WILL do its fricking job while I'm around
Bro, your tabletop tweaks?
Crane wing isn't actually glitched in the ttrpg, anon.
Crane wing doesn't beat someone with TWF and a shield spell.
Having a "free hand" is important, you can't take it as a caster because while casting your hand isn't free.
The true hack is carrying a shield ring, frick magic missile.
You know that game system is moronic when everyone is recommending to install buff manager mod that will cast buffs for you.
Otherwise after the ~midpoint you will be wasting a few minutes before every encounter to cast buffs or gimping yourself by not using then.
Also armor is straight up useless. Want to have a good defence? Doping 1lvl into monk class will get your warrior a better defence than a plate armor.
This is the"le.amazing build variery.
Game system is straight up moronic and untested shit. Imagine releasing a rpg game where armor is literally useless.
>Game system is straight up moronic and untested shit. Imagine releasing a rpg game where armor is literally useless
It's not useless, it's just overshadowed by other things, it still works fine on core
>cast magic armor with the archamage perk
>now you have 20 ac
bro
No, at max it's 14 AC, and it scales with your mythic ranks so you won't be getting that until near the end of the game
It's still better than armor, I'm not denying that mind you
It's not worth playing. Honestly a terrible game with reddit party members and anime tier story. I uninstalled in the middle of Act 2 because it was fricking insufferable.
>and anime tier story
What is anime tier? Is all anime the same? Berserk and Naruto and Konosuba are the same? If you dislike anime why are you browsing a website that literally has "chan" in it's name?
Cavaliers are actually pretty OP boss killers.
>Order of the Sword
>Knight's Challenge: At 15th level, the Cavalier can make a knight's challenge once per day. This functions like a normal Challenge, but the Cavalier adds his Charisma bonus on all attack rolls and damage rolls made against the target of his challenge. In addition, he receives a +4 circumstance bonus on attack rolls made to confirm critical hits against the target of his Knight's Challenge.
Which mythic path scale up my charisma modifier by a lot?
Is there more than 1?
I'm trying to build a Cavalier of Sword order, and perhaps add some Paladin levels so I can really take advantage of this charisma damage scaling
maybe azata or trickster?
Azata. grab the triumpet advance ring and get double the CHA bonus thanks to believe in yourself (+3 becomes +6)
Azata cavaliers....
Now that I think about it, don't the Azata also get a very special animal companion for mounting?
That could be some nice synergies with order of the Sword.
Yep. Aivu is one very powerful mount but the downside is that she is unusable for the majority of the game unless you are a Gnome or cast reduce person on yourself. plus i am pretty sure you still have your horse companion too
I just checked, it looks like her STR value isn't very high, Probably best to treat aivu as a separate character than a mount.
Order of the Sword has some special tricks that scale in power the more STR your mount has.
So I should probably pick Triceratops or something with really high STR base.
There's still some underwhelming classes (Assassin) and some overpowered broken mechanics, but it's a fun game
Insufferably woke.
Strong women everywhere, blacks and even a troony.
BG3 definitely has higher production values (full voice acting for all dialogue, mo-capped performances, etc), but WotR has far more depth and complexity when it comes to character building. It's definitely worth playing if you want a CRPG that has more running under the hood in terms of mechanics.
1E has more build autism than 5E could ever hope to have.
It does have issues with 10,000 pre-buffs before every fight which the conc system in 5E avoids.
5E tying ASI to feat slots basically makes feats irrelevant in 5E
Pros and cons to both, I'm more a a build autist myself. I think a Pathfinder 2E game mite b fun.
>there are min-max gays with stupidly dumb negative stats and immersion-breaking class dipping
you should only be allowed to multiclass if you're going for a prestige class and then you can only level up the prestige class or any of the requirement classes
>HURRRRR IT'S MY GAME AND I BOUGHT IT SO I'MA DO WHAT I WANT
not an argument
>not an argument
Cope
>He don't take the monk/vivi dip
Low T
explain a how a monk learns to dissect corpses and study anatomy
Anon that character isn't a monk or a vivisectionist. The joke is they're both near 'mandatory' dips for martial characters.
They're not mandatory. They make absolutely no sense.
Lol that guys moronic. I made the most broken slayer with no dips just off grabbing synergistic feats. They’re just no brained dips that won’t frick up a build where as other dips can be a bit uncharted territory
>Is it worth playing?
Yes
>Or will it feel outdated compared to BG3?
Nah, just different. Hope you like pre-buffing.
do people really use buffs that much that they need a mod to make it easier?
everything except bosses can easily be cleared with like two buff spells total on core
Yeah and there are a lot of bosses. Might as well be ready all the time.
I'm playing BG3 and I miss not getting exp from passing skill checks, it's such a moronic decision, most of the time there is no reason not to kill someone, it's just a waste of exp
I was almost going to try this game until I remembered it is made by Russians.
the crusade mechanic takes it from a 10/10 to 3/10.
bg3 is boringly easy and 5e has like 3 builds
wotr may be jank but at least it's not baby's first crpg
kingmaker has far more soul though, that one really feels like a full tabletop campaign that takes place over years, unlike bg3 which still feels like a video game adventure over a week
>le [other game] is better than [current popular game]
>check out [other game]
>mixed to dogshit user reviews
every. time.
>user reviews
is this supposed to be an argument
yep, it flags contrarian taste
ah yes if you dont like CoD slop you are a contrarian
Stat bloat meme game.
It'll feel outdated but WOTR will satisfy your power fantasy needs. I would play it.
It would feel outdated if you aren't a fan of the genre.
I would argue that Pathfinder has better writing though.
BG3 actually has an ending for its unique origin character. Half the things you can become in that game are rushed and unfinished as frick
BG3 doesn't even have ending slides to tell you what happened after the story ends. It ends like a Marvel movie.
I mean, sure, but lets not pretend like not having a fluff epilogue is more important than the fricking swarm or gold dragon dogshit in wotr. Have they even fixed their lack of content?
Those are meme paths. If you played angel, demon, or lich you would not be lacking in content.
You can't complain about lack of content but hype up BG3. Which suffer from the same shit, like the evil options in BG3 being half baked, which include Minthara being half a companion, the amount of story not being comparable in depth compared to being good, or even missing out on some of the best items in the game.
Not to mention the mind flayer dilemma where you have to choose who becomes one no matter what choices you make throughout the game. Doesn't matter if you're half illithid or never touched a tadpole you get the same content.
I know BG3 is shiny and new, but have some standards.
>Entire premise of the game are the mythic paths
>uhhhh bro those are the meme ones bro you have to play these three (actually two because you're moronic if you think lich comes even close to demon let alone angel)
>but hype up BG3
When the frick did I do that? I think BG3 is a massive let down and overhyped but at least the stories they have (Tav and Urge) have proper endings even if Urge is 95% the same shit as Tav. There's no unique path that opens up 90% of the game that's shallow as frick
AI art has really made fat, talentless morons quite uppity.
Seething luddite
Two different beasts. Pathfinder has a lot better build autism and much funner camp party interactions. But it’s basically a separate scenario simulator of random Dm sessions, which is fine but you really could outpace a lot of the scenarios whereas BG3 has a smoother progression with slow leveling and capping at 12.
I find BG3 had a lot more creativity toward approaching situations despite PF being far better mechanically. That early-mid game pre-buff before every fight was tedious until buffs started lasting longer than a couple minutes. Likewise I found it a bit easy to just break around this middle arc area. I had never played anything but kingmaker and accidentally created the most ridiculous setup for winning. BG3 isn’t hard but I got caught a lot more with my pants down. In the end both are great and have their own merits
How's the overall storyline? I don't play CRPGs for mechanics autism, but for stuff like character interactions and interesting plots. How does WotR hold up to BG3?
WOTR has by far better writing and actually different endings which determinate by your actions though the whole game
>WoTR writing and choices are better because... you get a different cutscene at the end
Wooooooooow
I've played through the game 3 times, as oracle angel, barbarian demon and witch lich, the narrative barely changes, all you get is more thematic dialogue options that usually don't lead to anything different.
>have sickly grey skin and white hair due to being touched by death itself
>the holy banner you recovered literally transformed before everybody's eyes into a crowned skull
>construct a massive ziggurat surrounded by a graveyard size half of the fricking city
>ask the tavernkeep what's the atmosphere like and what people think of me
>"uh hmmmm all is well but some people think you're not a actually chosen of Iomedae :^)"
I did a lich playthrough for my first one and it really ruined it for me because I realized immediately that there is no variation between playthroughs besides who I choose for my core party and what extra gimmicks I get. why are modern devs allergic to actual player agency LET MY ACTIONS HAVE NARRATIVE CONSEQUENCES HOLY SHIT
THIS. instead of 10 paths they should have had 3 at max but with completely different story, locations and quests
Kingmaker has a great story that feels like a proper CAMPAIGN and not some tiny 1 week adventure like every bioware game, which ultimately BG3 is the inheritor of. Once you play it through nothing can compare and everything feels small and artificial, video-gamey
WOTR doesnt quite have the same sense of scale
Too bad the "scale" of the story is watching the shitty kindom management screen for 200 days
Kingmaker feels like a good adventure
WOTR's whole plot feels like a backdrop for roleplaying
Story line is perfectly fun. Ultimately both are praised for open ended choices and accused of railroading into endings kinda. Just the nature of a crpg without a Dm to actively re-write planned endings. BG3 provides a lot more fun individual scenarios to me where you really get immersed in randomly getting caught up in bullshit, the companions are hit or miss.
Pathfinder is fun with a lot of options but I just don’t seem to remember specific scenarios like I do in BG where I dicked around in goblin territory roleplaying sneaking around to assassinate the camp , fell through a hole and found myself caught in an underground fungal gestalt conscious communities politics. The characters can really shine but some quest lines are forgettable. Pathfinder has a real fun party dynamic to your adventure. You could put a crew of dynamically opposed personalities and constantly find new dialogue at the campfire or growth between companions, companions could change based on your behavior remarkably well w/o compromising their core character. Most quest lines were great too. The general story is solid as well. Larian has a problem with legit giving you an amazing freedom of choice for decisions but having the endings kinda funnel to the same place, pathfinder less so but you have way less options for going about individual missions. Literally everybody I talk to went about BG have starkly different stories and got a different adventure along the way.
Kingmakers better imo bc of its low stakes though
I HATE BUFFING PRE-FIGHT
>I HATE BUFFING PRE-FIGHT
I HATE BUFFING PRE-FIGHT
>I HATE BUFFING PRE-FIGHT
I HATE BUFFING PRE-FIGHT
Genuinely why I hate playing clerics in 3.5 and playing pathfinder
>spend more time buffing yourself than actually fighting
Just use autobuffer
I just stopped caring and now play exclusively on casual, if all the homework before fights wasn't enough to burn my patience, then the out-of-nowhere difficulty mountains sure did the job.
Really Wrath breaks even difficulty wise great mid way through but is too easy at the end. Same with kingmaker but instead kingmaker had random bullshit scenarios early.
BG isn’t as hard but I really found myself caught unaware due to my personal decisions and scrambling to get out of situations way more often. Likewise despite the simplicity of combat the approach to battles was so free form.
BG3 is incredibly easy, all you need is 2 hand crossbows and start maxing tadpole powers because there's zero consequence to doing even if you partially turn into a mindflayer. Then you do fighter 5 with speed/haste and you're killing like 3--8 people on turn 1 while always going first. Dark Urge is even more broken because you get a unique item that turns you invisible per kill
Yeah exactly, making builds is easy. I never focused on worrying about breaking the game with the best builds, anything not moronic worked.
I just found a lot of difficulty just came from roleplaying and getting myself into a fricked situation or that I could approach that dark dwarf camp in a “friendly manner” while systematically poisoning, letting loose bulls, setting up uprisings, bombs, just shanking somebody caught alone etc. to set up the final outcome. As long as you don’t try to set up the most autistic build you can find a decent challenge.
Pathfinders build autism alone just always had me inherently breaking the game by the end. I wouldn’t even mean too you just kinda had too since success in PF on high difficulties takes proper planning and thought. You don’t have to think about everything but since they were nice enough to give you the core set of feats and features to look forward to you just ended up synergizing feats and mowing down everything thoughtlessly after buffing up by the later half.
WoTR advantages:
- Way more build variety, to an autistic degree. If you want to play on core difficulty or above you must know the Pathfinder system or look up builds. There are simply too many options, and many build options require you to have known about them when making previous build decisions.
- Mythic paths are pretty badass.
- Itemization is probably the best I've ever seen in a game. It's like they hired actual geniuses to come up with item descriptions. You will very often find an item that makes you go, "holy frick, this just made my build insane".
- Detailed UI and excellent combat log. The game explains every mechanic and roll.
- Good power fantasy
Disadvantages:
- Combat is wide as an ocean, but deep as a puddle. Everything simply comes down to maximizing your AC and attack bonuses. There are hundreds of spells, and the vast majority of them are about increasing your numbers or decreasing your enemy numbers. BG3's combat is considerably more dynamic, despite having fewer spells and abilities
- Difficulty scaling is horrendous. Higher difficulties merely bloat enemy stats. The problem is that you don't overcome this by playing smarter, using better tactics or positioning, or using environmental tools; rather, you simply stack more buffs and debuffs to increase your numbers and decrease enemy numbers. Higher difficulties give enemies more abilities, but these are inconsequential compared to the numbers game.
- Roleplaying decisions are not as meaningful or significant as BG3; most decisions are usually good vs evil.
- Crusade management does not match the quality of the rest of the game. It feels lazy and tacked on, but I personally didn't mind it.
- Production value is much lower. There is very, very little voice acting, but a frick ton of text. I'm someone who reads for fun, and the amount of text in this game is excessive.
>Roleplaying decisions are not as meaningful or significant as BG3; most decisions are usually good vs evil.
I don't know, it's like people are blind or something. BG3 got less choices than a fricking mass effect.
>BG3 got less choices than a fricking mass effect.
No, it really doesn't.
>Loved hearing peoples opinions and actually seeing choices matter role playing wise later
I agree. The characters' council opinions are well thought out.
>No, it really doesn't.
Yeah, it does. ME got consequences across multiple games. BG3 got no consequences even across two chapters. Also
>non lethal
lmao
>BG3 got no consequences even across two chapters
Did you even play the game?
Think you replied to the wrong person
My only detraction to the items was the legit lack of variety to some. It seemed like they out more effort into items they knew characters would use like regills gnome hooks, or the mercenary guys axes. I went dual sword route and was horribly disappointed to see so many cool weapons in other classes while I had radiance. I respecced ultimately just for weapon proficiency reasons, didn’t change a feat otherwise. Otherwise you’re completely correct, I loved looking at my treasure trove at the end and thinking of all the builds I coulda made
Oh and crusade overworld was bad but the council was great. Loved hearing peoples opinions and actually seeing choices matter role playing wise later
I would list the strict vertical difficulty as a pro and a con. Sometimes it's fun to just stack as many bonuses as you can find, there's a certain autistic satisfaciton to it.
Off topic but I just want to complain how the Gith monks that attack you at the beginningof act 3 are called githyanki when they should obviouslybe githzerai. It really grinds my gears that the story introduced this subplot about a gith civil war and it was just githyanki against githyanki. Imo they should have spun it so that the githzerai were the ones trying to free Orpheus. The secession of their race is one of the most integral parts of gith lore, next to their eternal war on the mindflayers. It's a damn shame that the story never really addressedthis beyond one note at the the githyanki creche.
don't githzerai want peace with mindlfayers? having them included at all would be weird since it's beat over your head that mindflayers are soulless fricks only good for killing.
Mindflayers may be soulless (supposedly) but they can be diplomatic. Omelum and a certain spoiler character are proof of that.
yeah 2 morons are not gonna sway my opinion on the whole mindflayer race. i didnt kill both those morons but omelum seems to be the only one who isnt shady.. and he still was kind of shady with his potion. fricking bastard.
It's harder, it's still a very good game. You won't like it as much if you prefer bioware type games.
Who is she motorboating?
I like build autism
*never uses multiclasses*
>40 trickery
>still can't dispel every single debuff the boss have
At least it doesn't cost a spell slot.
What's with all the illiterate morons now complaining about crpgs?
>now
>still didnt find a proper shield tank that isnt the Black
I should stop being lazy and respec Regill into a Tank and get an Undead Companion to replace him.
Light shield is still a shield, is it not?
RTWP sucks ass.
>t. lariansissy
Then play in turn based?
You can't really play turn based because the engine shits itself if you, the game was made on Unity.
I've just got to the army management bit and holy shit this is horrendous. The battles are so fricking slow but auto battle just gets you slaughtered.
Frick this.
Where the Citadel DLC with Arue x KC wedding at?
I want to throw a massive party at the KC's crib after fighting the KC's demon clone who tried to usurp the Crusade and bring it down from within while pretending to be them.
Low level DLC nobody cares about first.
Why are Owlcat DLCs always such shit?
Because they hate money. They should've made a post game expansion and everyone and their mothers would have bought it.
>post game expansion
That's Inevitable Excess and everyone hated that,
You need to look up the definition of post game
What do you understand by post game then?
Throne of Bhaal, DAO Awakening
Inevitable Excess happens RIGHT BEFORE the final battle, and you're technically not even playing as your own character
Ahhh, I see. Well there isn't much to do after you kill Areelu, maybe hunt down some remaining demon enclaves in the Worldwound? I don't know what more they could have added to that story, also how do you account for players who decided to sacrifice themselves to close the Wound? Or to Ascend?
I don't, I also think that a post game DLC would make no sense thanks to all the different endings you can get
Well, it COULD work if they made up some excuse to justify your character being suddenly alive or somehow losing godhood, but that would be just lazy
I keep trying to play crpgs but I'm so fricking dumb, lads...
Play BG1. It's a low level adventure so you start at level 1 with practically no abilities other than 1 spell or just auto-attack. Plays more like a hack-and-slash than a modern CRPG because of that and slowly scales up the complexity as you level, but still doesn't get crazy until you hit BG2.
Play NWN2
I'd say play 1, but if you don't play a rogue you have to take Tomi with you everywhere you go, and you'll want to have a nice day before Chapter 1 is over
>if you don't play a rogue you have to take Tomi with you everywhere you go
I just smash every door and chest the moment I see them.
That's also an option. But moving anywhere in a dungeon or interacting with containers/doors is basically russian roulette for whoever's with you, because while you might tank that trap, they sure as shit won't.
Assuming they didn't see an enemy through three walls and go into a bloodfrenzy, charging through an entire hallway of traps because you neglected to set their behaviour again.
Just keep it simple, focus on maximizing what works for each class, prioritize your a major stats in point allocation and keep a varied party. You don’t have to worry about double dipping or multi classing. Almost every crpg lets you grab a fighter wizard and ranger/rogue and beat the game
I love my beautiful mother. One day I will become a powerful mage just like her and kill all people that make her sad.
If you enjoy build variety for combat PF is a great game.
If you want to play it for the story you will be sorely dissappointed. The writing that gets constant praise here isnt that good. It gets praise because the average PF enjoyer on this board is addled with anime brainrot. The level of writing is on par with that of seasonal anime slop. Combine that with the incessant waifubait owlcat seems to put in every game and youll understand why autists on this board fall hook, line and sinker for the drek that is owlcat writing.
You can even see them itt, replacing every portrait with animu garbage in the game.
Now theres nothing wrong with enjoying anime tier slop, but lets not pretend were reinventing IE narrative games here.
For me the praise of owl cats writing is their excellent interactions between companions. I love that I can put any random party together and get interesting interactions at each campfire all the way to the end.
I agree that the scope of interactions they accounted for is commendable. That doesnt mean the writing is any good.
Except its not great, its full of cliche stylistic choice where characters feel one dimensional
>but larian!
Noone mentioned larian what do they have to do with it
They feel onedimensional to you because you refuse to acknowledge anything cotradicting your narrative.
Show me writing from wotr or km you think is good and we'll discuss it
Narrative does not equate writing. If lotr was written like wotr it would not be very good even if the narrative beats were identical
>Narrative does not equate writing
What exactly you don't like about writing, then? Or what do you want to see? A lot of pathos like in classical fantasy?
My main gripe is that owlcat has a tendency to overwrite. Its a lot of tell and very little show. They seem to not want to or not be capable of being succinct or poignant in dialogue. Characters tell you their thoughts instead of infering them from how they act. They also constantly fall into the classic rpg trap of loredumping through dialogue, leaving very little to imagination
A bit of pathos wouldnt be remiss idd
Im more than willing to discuss I know why I hold my opinions, do you?
I, too, know what I'm supposed to think. The internet has made it very clear to me.
>tendency to overwrite
That is a limitation of game format, nothing more. Nothing can be done about that, apart from writing an actual book with the same story properly expanded.
Not really, it can be done. Its not that hard to show me why x cult of y god is evil without loredumping. Show me through different npc interactions, converts etc..
Dont give me a long explanation with a million adjectives and 2 hamfisted metaphors when one will do and leave the rest to my imagination
For PoE I absolutely agree, although I fond their loredumps to be stylistically not quite so jarring as owlcat
>Its not that hard to show me why x cult of y god is evil without loredumping
Terrible example, every cultist you see in this game is always doing some evil shit like killing someone, making them betray the crusade, and you usually find them with corpses around them
>Its not that hard to show me why x cult of y god is evil without loredumping.
Can you give me one example of this happening in the game?
>My main gripe is that owlcat has a tendency to overwrite.
Boy, just you wait until you play an Obisidian game.
I understand your complaint, overwriting is not necessarily good writing or good dialogue even if the concepts are good, I’ve never been a fan of writers like Dostoevsky despite the themes they approach. But as a text based crpg I do think it’s a bit of a sin of the format. If they didn’t there would be just as many people talking about lack of a story. Would be nice if somebody could hit that niche of letting inferences be made
>Show me writing from wotr or km you think is good and we'll discuss it
We all know that no matter what I will show you nothing's gonna be good enough. You're not interesting in arguing, you're here just to shit up this thread.
interested*
>Show me writing from wotr or km you think is good and we'll discuss it
inb4 <nooo stop having fun
I dont know what your intention was to present this, its certainly less egregious than most of the interactions in the game, but it also seems quite banal and tropey? I dont mind it, but also wouldnt put it up there in terms of well written dialogue
Its one of the few pieces of writing in any game that just portrays me, the player, being un-apologetically and unreservedly cruel and spiteful, and it does it in a way that perfectly carries the emotion of the action.
>and it does it in a way that perfectly carries the emotion of the action.
I strongly disagree on that point, where does the underlying emotion of the player character come across?
>You strike her down with a single blow. Her body crumples to the floor
Shows that this is not just not a battle, instead emphasis is put on the fact that it is a merciless killing of a defenseless woman. This tells you a lot about the protagonist's values and thoughts at the time. You can easily imagine the kind of person who wouldn't think twice about such an act.
>and she begins to choke on her own blood
This drives home the cruelty of it. She dies slowly, and painfully. Its not a necessary, clean death by an evil calculating man. It is the slow and miserable death delivered by a tyrant who takes if not pleasure, at least satisfaction in watching his opponents and his opponents' pawns suffer.
Those last few sentences drive home the entire scene, it uses "show don't tell" to express the emotion of the actions far better than tediously explaining what is going on in the character's mind, or describing the body language which you can instead infer.
The lead up can be interpreted two ways, the sadness as her disappointment and lack of fear as being faith in her goddess which would make her retribution all the sweeter. Or the sadness in her knowledge that she is reciting her own eulogy and the lack of fear being that she has already accepted the inevitable results of her goddess' instructions. This leads into her claim of protection. Either she knows she will die but believes herself to be beyond your power in death as she will enter the domain of her goddess, in which case the only unfortunate part is that you can't prove her wrong, or that she falsely believes her goddess will protect her, which 9as mentioned above) makes her suffering all the sweeter, as it gives her time to feel the betrayal of her trust.
I agree, the players dialogue doesn’t need to be overly wordy itself since you as an avatar should fill in the gaps a bit. Obv owl cat doesn’t always knock it out of the park but I can truly remember some good dialogue moments I really appreciated and it gave me good options to get my opinion I felt at the time across
>Except its not great
It is, for people who experienced true loss in their lives. Areelu's noble luciferian rebellion against uncaring universal laws is the second-best story in western RPGs.
that's not noble, that's pathetic. loss is part of life, you accept it. you don't flip the table like a whiny kid.
What a cuck you are. Areelu had a will to power required for achieving the impossible. But you would just accept Demiurge's boot on your face because it is "natural order".
>causing loss for others because you can't accept your own loss
only cuck here is you. strength means stoic behavior, not temper tantrums.
>strenght is only my singular definition
Awfully onedimensional of you anon.
There is nothing more pathetic than a willing slave like you. No wonder you don't understand what made Areelu great.
That Spartacus guy? Pfft, what a cuck!
Yes, he was supposed to just accept Roman order, like normal people!
You're the slave in this situation. You're a slave to your desire, to the things you want and anyone who can give them to you. The only free man is a man who depends on nothing emotionally.
>Just admit defeat, bro. Don't struggle against deific tyrants, bro. When you demonstrate your power, it makes you weak!
People like you exist to be killed by people like Areelu Vorlesh. That is the only thing you're good for.
you make yourself a slave when you refuse to let go. who's more of a slave, the guy who just doesn't care and stays emotionally calm or the person who's rocked by passion every day of their life because they're too immature to let go?
The game's story is great compared to the original, but your shitty mommy fetish bait sure as hell isn't, Deskari should have been the final boss and Areelu should have been nothing more than a very powerful mook as she was originally
>your shitty mommy fetish
Do you hate your real mother as well?
Areelu looks younger in the picture.
As if she was still in the pre-MILF stage. I like it.
She has 29 CHA in tabletop. She must be absolutely gorgeous when it comes to looks.
>same CHAR as Arue
Damn...
Only mom has 48 Con (more than an elder golden dragon) on top. MILF endurance is no joke.
Owlcats were forced to rewrite the story of the original campaign and made it into something great. Larian had complete creative freedom and still created a copy of BG 1 story.
>5e over pathfinder
lol
>modern pc games that have heavy focus on the story
LOL
>DND on PC
LMAO
playing it rn because i wanted to play it before bg3, quite addictive
Does anyone know if it is possible to stack all 5 knight orders into 1 character?
Each of them have really powerful level 8 and level 15 abilities.
Nope
I need an item that works with this.
Something that gives me 1 fire damage on myself occasionally.
I think I misunderstood the ability completely. Since there are apparently completely different groups of orders.
It sucks, but I guess the Sword is the best Cavalier order in the end anyway.
Nah man Lion is best order by far. For the King is busted.
I don't necessarily disagree with this.
Lion order does seem to be the best balanced.
At level 1 his order get dodge bonus which stacks with other dodge bonuses. And this scales up to +5 dodge bonus at level 17. That really is the best level 1 ability.
At level 2, they get some fine flavour ability against fear. This scales with charisma so it's kid of as good as immunity to fear/frightened/panics.
At level 8, For the King is very strong, but it only last 1 round.
But if you engage in multiple combats per day, this actually scales up to many rounds. In a sense if we consider how WotR is structured, this can potentially become many, many rounds per day in total.
But the Order of the Sword can scale Charisma to attack and damage for as long at the boss is alive.
One is a boss killer, the other makes the overall game smoother.
The level 2 also gives a +1 competence bonus to attack rolls that lasts the entire fight and into the next one at higher levels.
But now consider order of the Sword
Level 1:
>+1 a morale bonus
>The bonus increases by +1 for every four levels
Kind of worthless if you already have a bard or Sensei etc.
But it you don't, it's kind of useful.
Level 2:
>As long as he maintains the selected Alignment, he receives a +2 morale bonus to one saving throw of his choice.
Meh, equivalent of 1 feat.
Level 8:
>Mounted Mastery: At 8th level, whenever the Cavalier makes a charge attack while mounted, he adds his mount's Strength modifier to the damage roll, in addition to his own. He also receives a bonus feat, chosen from the following list: Indomitable Mount, Mounted Combat, Mounted Shield, Spirited Charge, or Trample. He must qualify for the feat selected.
This on the other hand, might actually be about as OP as For the King.
We all know mounts have incredibly high STR.
And it lasts infinite rounds.
And this STR scaling bonus stacks with the Charisma scaling bonus form the level 15 ability.
Level 15:
>Knight's Challenge
Really, really, really OP, But it's unfortunate you only get it late.
I would say order of the Lion helps you from start to finish. Unlike sword.
They both have similarly OP level 8 abilities.
At level 15 and above the Sword is more powerful, but you don't have access to this until late into the game.
Oh shit. guys.
>He also receives a bonus feat, chosen from the following list: Indomitable Mount, Mounted Combat, Mounted Shield, Spirited Charge, or Trample
This part is actually important.
>Spirited Charge
>When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with melee weapons.
Depending on which part of the damage formula gets doubled, it could potentially be really OP
But the way it's formulated is kind of like the level 20 Cavalier ability
Except order of the Sword gets this level 20-like ability at level 8.
That's wiiiiiild.
Have you been living under a rock? Yes, cavalier is great for charge builds
Did everybody pick order of the Sword or something?
I thought we came to the convulsion the order of the Lion is strong too.
It's not very good, you'll have to wait for the industry proper to respond to BG3 which will take years, sadly.
Can I do Demon route and still be NG?
Pleasee, pleasee.
Pleasee respond.
ofc not lol
Why does the succ get to be demon good but I don't?
can't you do chaotic good as a demon?
I think you just get locked to the chaotic axis but I might be wrong as I never did demon
Only in the beginning. Reaching your true potential and transforming into true demon will make you evil.
Guess I'll roleplay a redemption story then. Sucks.
It's the superior option
Is this Legend? I really should do a Legend playthrough sometime, mainly because it's supposed to be even more busted and OP than any of the mythic paths.
>mainly because it's supposed to be even more busted and OP than any of the mythic paths
It's not, casuals are just bad at the game and Legend is the easiest one to build (40 levels of full bab classes)
do people pick mythic paths for builds instead of rp?
I don't, but many people play for build autism only
it's a PF game what do you think
fair
at least on core it's not necessary to build that way
I first my a character in my head and then make character around it.
It's good, I enjoyed it and Kingmaker a lot. It's more build autism focused which I really enjoy. Both games feel like huge adventures. I'm sure I'll come back to it even after playing BG3 a bunch. BG3 is more of a sandboxy game with how freely you can mess with NPCs and towns. Pathfinder has no such mechanics as far as I remember, and very limited exploration mechanically, you just roll to discover a hidden thing or don't.
controlling a group doesn't feel like ass in pathfinder because it uses rts controls
Does WotR have a significant undead presence?
yep my city and armies are full of em
I meant opponents.
I still regularly find ghosts and ghouls around level 13-15
so quite a lot, and then you can add in your own undead summons
In the first 7-10 levels
In early game you see them pretty often, but the bulk of the game is demons.
Not especially, I only remember a short bit near the start.
there are undeads up to Act 3 but they become rare as the game progress. the game is about fighting demons, not undeads.
>No playable lizard race
Aand dropped
Holy shit, guys the Calvaliers are really OP
Lion order.
Level 8:
>For the King: At 8th level, an Order of the Lion Cavalier can call out to his allies, inspiring them to greatness. As a Swift Action, the Cavalier can grant a competence bonus equal to his Charisma modifier on all attack and damage rolls to all allies within 30 feet. This bonus lasts for 1 round. This ability can be used once per combat.
Level 15:
>Shield of the Liege: At 15th level, an Order of the Lion Cavalier can protect those around him. Allies that are adjacent to the Cavalier receive a +3 shield bonus to their AC.
Wouldn't the shield bonus not stack with shield of faith or just regular shields? That doesn't seem that good for level 15.
But what about the AoE Charisma modifier to attack rolls and damage rolls?
It's a competence bonus. IIRC it wouldn't stack with Heroism. Might atill be worth it if your charisma's high enough.
>Might atill be worth it if your charisma's high enough.
That's what I'm thinking.
It allies to all allies, including summoned creatures and mounts.
Just imagine a simple +15 charisma modifier or even +20.
You can probably make much bugger charisma modifier than +20 if you knew what you were doing.
>one round
>competence bonus
Not that good because in your team you should always have either a community domain cleric or a skald
>https://pathfinderkingmaker.fandom.com/wiki/Bonuses_(WotR)
Cavalier is fun.
we need to go even higher
All that damage I posted is from a single charge, gotta sum it up.
Those are rookie numbers boy!
It doesn't have multiplayer so I don't see the point. Am I supposed to play a video game all by myself like some loser?
Bg3 multiplayer is literally unplayable
The frick are you talking about? I've been having a blast playing the campaign with my friends for the past week. It works pretty much flawlessly.
>Have to constantly say "hey Im talking to an npc now" to let others know because the game does jackshit to let other people know
>Or have to constantly summarize what happened to your mates
Nah it's a shitshow if you actually want to know what's going on
that tracks with the tabletop experience though
your friends can see when someone is in a conversation moron
their fault if they don't listen in
The 10x10 pixel eye is so easy to miss out on, especially on bigger screens. It's shit design that makes the whole multiplayer experience an uncohesive drag and all they needed to do to fix it was a small sound effect or something.
it's as big as the character icons what are you smoking?
Would you prefer an alarm going off each time somebody starts a conversation? It's also mentioned in the log when somebody starts one
off all the things to complain about this is the least of the problems bg3 has
It's not even the same aspect ratio so it factually cannot be as big moron, fricking Gankerermin I swear
ok and the fact that the game lets you know "x is starting a conversation" in the log?
It's a crpg so you are meant to be keep an eye on it damn near constantly
>Trying to immerse yourself in the setting
>annoying ping sound effect every time a co-op partner talks to one of the thousand NPCs
That sounds like dogshit design bro
>Open inventory
>Someone speaks to an NPC
>Turns out it was something important/cool/funny
>Entirely miss out on it because you weren't staring at the 10 pixels at the very edge of your screen
I know which option I would prefer
My friends and I would alert each other with a quick "check this out dude" every time a funny/interesting conversation happened. Never really missed much because we'd tell each other immediately when the cool shit was happening. Didn't check any private conversation boxes too so that we could all be privy. Sucks that your "friends" won't even do something as simple as that for you, enough that you'd list it as a major complaint about the game.
Are you moronic? Do you not see the ear icon appear next to the character portraits when a player is in conversation with an NPC?
you are moronic mate
That game must be played with your mother for best experience.
Only losers plays multiplayers only anon.
Instead of the vidya I'm playing this module IRL, anything I should know?
>I'm playing this module IRL
TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
Pros
Far more class and build diversity
Larger party size by default
Can create OCs with customized portraits
Mounted Combat
Mythic paths offer more of an exclusive routing experience
Combat is more difficult
Get to rip and tear demons all day
Your choice of romance between a cute succubus, a murderous psychopath, a bugcat, an aging fossil, and some other gay shit options.
Cons
Combat is more difficult
Game doesn't look as attractive
The overall world isn't as reactive and fleshed out as BG3's
Have to deal with Crusade Mode
Hope you like rip and tearing demons all day
Sex is just text with fade to black
If you ever ran into technical issues playing BG3, just wait until you try your hand at Russian coding
It's probably better than BG3 honestly.
Faerun sucks ass.
Lmao. It might be a better game but you'd have to be an absolute moron if you think Golarion is any better than the Forgotten Realms.
the worldwound is as stupid a premise as the spellplague
It's kitchen sink fantasy, nothing is technically 'good' in the worldbuilding
get both
baldur's gate 3 not 2 or the first one is a good entrance for the newbie into crpg
then you can try your hand on wrath of the righteous because the class is more complex and you have to know how to build some of the class or you will feel very under power
or you could try kingmaker before getting in wrath of the righteous
DAO is a much better introduction to CRPGs
BG3 is way too watered down and does some fundamental shit completely wrong, like not even showing you what a class is gonna do later at character creation
>bg3 too watered down
>suggests dao
dao has the most basic progression system and shallowest class/subclass depth of most crpgs.
It's much simpler than 5e
It's simplistic enough for someone who's used to the system, but your build choices are still meaningful and not carried by busted gear.
Newcomers to the genre should just play Pillars of Eternity. As flawed as it is, it does serve as an excellent gateway entry to crpgs. It's not even that long compared to the Larian and Owlbear games.
>play Pillars of Eternity
The only reason I'd suggest Pillars to anyone is as a homeopathic sleeping aid
That game revels in being verbose to the point of masturbation, and the combat is so lukewarm and flaccid you wouldn't know you're actually fighting if not for the damage numbers floating away
>and the combat is so lukewarm and flaccid you wouldn't know you're actually fighting if not for the damage numbers floating away
you do realise the same can be said of both pf games right?
>Enemy group explodes into a rain of gore
My penis disagrees
You just described the pre-Larian Baldur's Gate games. DAO is like that too. Just characters doing a swing or casting animation until on of them dies. DA2 was shit but at least it's combat was flashier to look at than the rockem sockem fighting in Origins.
It's not even just the feedback, but that there are no standout builds and skills in Pillars. Everything fun was balanced into mediocrity by that autistic frick, Sawyer. The result is painfully slow encounters.
DAO might not be flashy but at least a fight is over in a timely fashion if your team's competent.
I agree with
that if you want an unconventional CRPG that's still a good intro DA:O is great. It lulls people into a false sense of security because it's pretending to be an ARPG.
I'm kind of meh about the game itself, but Tyranny is also a good intro CRPG because
>it's really fricking easy
>it's really fricking short
>it has a shitty ending like a lot of CRPGs
>it's easy to make weird builds that still function
>it encourages you to branch out and do fun RP stuff because you're the bad guy
>neat magic system
>has just enough of the management systems common to CRPGs to give you a taste without it being overwhelming for a newcomer
>it's kind of mediocre, so it doesn't set you up to be disappointed by the rest of the genre, but it isn't so bad it spoils the genre for you
If Age of Decadence weren't so ball-bustingly hard on a first playthrough it'd probably be the best intro CRPG, though.
better gameplay depth and ruleset, worse spectacle
not many games allow the level of character progression freedom that wotr provides
the only one that trumps it mechanically in that aspect is path of exile, but poe also doesn't let you live out the ramifications of being a lich for example
BG3 feels outdated to even NWN1 build/spells/feats wise, when compared to Pathfinder it feels like it was made 30 years ago.
BG3 is easily the bimbo of cRPGs, it only excels at graphics and voice acting which are the least important aspects of a good cRPG
Even Deadfire offers more build variety
NWN's UI makes me cum buckets
>Right click on my cast target to pull up an action wheel
>Click spells
>Brings up another wheel for spell levels
>Don't have to go scrolling through tiny menus hunting for the spell I want to cast
Both BG3 and PF are Black personlicious, NWN should be the standard
The game will feel different not outdated.
The fact the game is not fully voiced means there are many more options during dialogues so its a better roleplayng experience.
It also has several Paths thru the story giving it insane replay value.
You literally become a final boss tier monster or a Super hero or just do an epic troll on the entire world or a literal Time cop.
Also its hard for CRPGs to feel outdated.
If anything playing BG3 gives me the urge to go back and play BG1 and 2 and Ice wind dale games.
Is Alchemist a good class for Lich? Not the biggest magicgay but running pure melee feels like its against the spirit of the path.
Lich is amazing for anything that's not a Divine caster, and even then it's only because it's outclassed by Angel in this case.
But Lich is good for any martial, half martial or Arcane character, while Angel is mostly only truly good for Divine.
Vivisectionist is busted good and also quite fitting thematics wise for a Lich.
worse graphics but far better build diversity. also better larping as a total mythic powered badass. they honestly have both good points
hand of the inheritor is so fricking based
>CHAMPION WHO TURNED HIMSELF INTO A LICH OR A DEMON, I'M 99% SURE THAT YOU'RE THE CHOSEN ONE OF MY GODDESS BECAUSE.... YOU JUST ARE OKAY?
>WAIT YOUR POWERS COME FROM AREELU AND YOU HAD NO IDEA? YOU BETRAYED ME YOU FRICKING PIECE OF SHIT I'M LEAVING YOU TO DIE IN THE ABYSS (unless you play the only path Owlcat wants you to play)
>ALSO WHEN YOU TRY TO SAVE MY SORRY ASS AFTER I GOT KIDNAPPED I'M GOING TO SNITCH YOU OUT TO IOMEDAE
No not really. I swear you homosexuals only give him a pass because you played angel first and liked it the most so you like to pretend he doesn't frick you over in literally every other path, even azata or aeon
I'll admit I didn't get to that part yet(and I am running a lich character)
But I like him pretty much dismissing the queen in order to support you
>I swear you homosexuals only give him a pass because you played angel first and liked it the most so you like to pretend he doesn't frick you over in literally every other path, even azata or aeon
>wasting time as a homosexual tree hugger or space jannie
angel is the only correct path.
Yeah, just like that
>angel is the only correct path
Demon is the only path that makes mom happy. Therefore, it is the best path and the canon path.
You're right, it is canon, only difference is going legend later
>far better build diversity.
monk dip
mutagen dip
sword saint dip
martials must stack unarmored AC to survive highest difficulties. wow, what great build diversity!
>minmaxing homosexual
you got tons of options and mythic lvls as opposed to a cap of lvl 12. there is no debating this.
I went full angelic paladin as the gods intended.
I have done tons of playthrough on core and have never taken a dip except Hellknight for obvious RP reasons. maybe it's just a (you) issue
WORT is a fun game but fricking hell not having Mythic Paths matter until act 5 is fricking moronic and the "evil paths" are especially moronic with homies reacting the same way each time (Demons walking in Drezen or the undead Ziggurat in the middle of the city)
The average citizen is just like "Yep everything here is normal!" :^)
It's an RPG, there's only so dated it can feel. That being said it's a fundamentally different game. Its presentation is inferior to BG3, and interactions are just reading text rather than mini-cutscenes, but I don't really consider that a mark against it. It also demands good knowledge of the systems on higher difficulty, though, where BG3 is based 5e which is designed for the mentally moronic (note I am not saying Pathfinder is a good system), so if you like character build autism WotR has it by the armful. WotR is also much more of a power fantasy game.
I love Jerribeth!
Owlcat sucks
Larian sucks
Play Disco Elysium for a good modern CRPG experience.
>Disco Elysium
At least Kim is not trying to frick Harry...
>Play Communist Propaganda
>Weeb with the usual shit take
He's got a less cringe reaction pic of you two, so he has at least that going for him.
And you got the least cringe comment out of the two of you, so at least tha- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Communism is best.We are entering the age where capitalism can no longer exploit the BRICS countries.
Is there a mod to skip the HoMM dogshit
Toybox
Just go in the settings and turn it off, you don't miss anything unless you're going for the secret ending.
>you don't miss anything
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2608364853
Sorry, I should've said nothing of importance
>One gorillion pieces of equipment, including the best weapon in the game
>nothing important
didnt need em beat the game anyway
I'm going to cheat to have a sor/monk because I hate spell slots.
I'm interested in this game and bg3 but I have some questions before starting.
is arue used goods?
is shadowheart used goods?
>I’m interested in this game but I wanna bait
>is arue used goods?
She is so used that she transcended into pure virgin with a little help from deific butterfly.
>is shadowheart used goods?
All companions in BG 3 are.
yes but a goddess fixes her and give her a new virgin body when she becomes a CG Angel just for (you). The many benefits of having a outsider gf.
yes
Can 1 opponent be "Challenged" by multiple Cavaliers simultaneously?
In the spirit of fairness, I would say no since a challenge is 1v1.
But with Owlcat code, you never know...
Worst Cavalier archetype: Cavalier of the Paw
Best Cavalier archetypes:
Gendarme
Fearsome Leader
Gerndarme gets a lot of feats, almost like a fighter.
Fearsome Leader gets a very special form of Dazzling Display that also buff party with Good hope. And dispels all fear affects.
Fearsome Leader should be used with order of Sword.
Gendarme should be used with order of Lion.
Larian shills are in full fricking force today