>NOOO IT'S LE HECKIN DREAMERINO >YOU CAN'T USE IT!!!
>So what? Reality is entirely what I perceive it to be. If the dream is indistinguishable from reality and allows me to live happily then there is no problem. >This goes especially since I am powerless to stop my own death or the deaths of countless others
living for happiness is so fricking dumb, i fricking hate hedonists and utilitarians, and i fricking hate happiness
everything and everyone is eventually going to die so instead of wasting away like a degenerate chasing after those feel-good chemicals, you should fight , realize the meaningless of the universe and life itself, and embrace it whole, your weapons are curiosity and creativity and with them you must fight tooth and nail against the void even if it's meaningless, especially because it is meaningless you must fight, and this struggle itself will be your own meaning and purpose and it will be most beautiful
No one cares and everything is meaningless, but that's exactly why you have to create your own meaning and find fulfillment in it. Just how having children is meaningless if they someday die anyways, or eating food you like, creating something, spending time with someone you love, it's all meaningless, and yet we still do it because it brings you meaning and happiness. Rebel against this meaningless universe. Fight in spite of it, and someday you will be truly happy.
>but that's exactly why you have to create your own meaning and find fulfillment in it. >your meaning can't be the pursuit of happiness, though, not THAT one
>create your own meaning and find fulfillment in it
and if being happy in escapism does that what's the problem? the future is determined by the billions of indians and islamics who have all the kids anyway
>posts self-contradicting nonsense >is objectively correct
Choose one, if there is no telos of the universe or its inhabitants then it’s meaningless, no amount of cope will change that. The most charitable form of the argument presented is: don’t be a dumb hedonist, chasing happiness will only lead to misery. Instead chase “meaning”, (which in a technical sense doesn’t exist and is at best a different and richer form of “happiness”)
I don’t think it’s wrong to say that having a wife and kids or pursuing some intellectually stimulating occupation is better than smoking fentanyl until you die, but from the materialist purview this is merely an opinion.
A full nihilist outcome of that logic is that existence itself is without point, hence its no point in valuing it above non-existence. Death and those seeking it should not be hindered.
I could argue that we should prefer existence, but a nihilistic rejection means we have no common ground or way to argue with eachother.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Precisely, at best we could only argue on the basis of already agreed upon principles with no way to conjure an impetus for a skeptic to accept those principles (at least no impetus without appealing to some other more foundational shared principle). And regarding the impossibility of argument, one could look into the consequences of epistemological nihilism and see how disastrous that’s be if one follows that train of logic. If you don’t like/believe that to be the case, I’d suggest looking for some transcendentals to ground your worldview in.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Also that I know of ways to prove my point wrong: happypilling and living in "lies" would be an acceptable outcome if it demonstrably improved life of yourself and others long-term.
There is no argument or hypothetical a nihilist will accept that could prove him wrong. It's already a death of struggle or comprehension.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Fair enough, but how would you convince the hedonist to change his ways? As I’ve stated, without external justification you’re left bickering whether his “happiness” or your “meaning/fulfillment” are better. Resting upon subjective grounds it’s like arguing about which food truck has the better gyros, you can do it but if you reach a standstill what else can be done but to agree to disagree.
>you should fight
Fight? Fight what? You're probably some white suburbanite. You've never had to fight anything besides the urge to shit your pants because you have such a hard time getting your fat ass off the computer chair, maybe if you touched grass once in awhile and learned what life was really like for 99% of people you wouldn't be so high and mighty about whether other people can be happy or not. Those who live in ivory towers should shut the frick up and be fricking grateful for once.
>noooooo dont live life your way, life is pointless and meaningless in the end so dont >live my way instead!
You invalidated your own argument you fricking muppet moron homosexual burger.
Video games.
>and i fricking hate happiness
Yeah I can tell edgelord, you're real special. >everything and everyone is eventually going to die
Exactly, every stupid thing you do trying to fight the fact that you will die is more of your life that you've wasted away to entropy, you are literally letting it have power over you by focusing on it so hard. Your accomplishments, creations, children, children's children, everything is temporary, stop being a homosexual with a stick up your ass about it.
what we experience right now might be a lie, in the sense of we perceive reality through our imperfect senses. Maybe there is an army of souls screaming in pain onto your ears and clawing at your eyes every second but we can't perceive them.
I say living a lie isn't bad if it encompasses your whole existence and its not escapism or not the base reality. Also it is if duration is limited and you fallback/awaken to base reality you were escaping from.
Its like doing harmful drugs, you might touch heaven for a while but then come crashing down to this reality that now feels even worse. Not worth unless the effects of the drug were permanent.
No. I would gladly get in a machine that would just feed me all the good dreams I could ever want. Pretending that struggling at life is some kind of virtue and how hardship can be a positive aspect to you is meaningless, harmful philanthropy. There is no meaning to continuous despair and it only makes you a more jaded, hardened person that only feels less pain because they've given up hope.
If the government made a pill that could emulate dopamine/seratonin and that was the only effect it had, would you trust it if the government started mandating you take it?
the only thing gayer than this thread would be you homosexuals all started fricking eachother in the ass >woah life is meaningless maaaaan >puffs toke >uhhhhhh hardship >everything is a lie >you vill own nothing you should work for no real reason
I really liked We Happy Few even in spite of the hamfisted survival stuff and the long ass walks everywhere. The aesthetics were nice.
also im pretty sure everytime this appears in media hedonistic nihilists never get any maintenance done and everything falls apart (other than like idk the Matrix or Brave New World's slave caste) so being unsustainable kinda makes the whole point moot
So sick of these homosexuals who learn about Nietzsche in their first year of Philosophy and suddenly they think they know everything. The guy was a sheltered butthole who died in the most pathetic manner, you really shouldn't take his word as gospel.
No, since it's not sustainable. Happypilling removes the ability to improve or maintain your or societies condition and hastens it's decline. There is nothing good or productive generated from simply feeling or thinking good.
Only way to avoid a same spiral a junkey goes through is to either cannibalize your inherited wealth, or have someone else manage you like a pet.
>Is living a lie really that bad if you're at least happy?
If you know it is a lie, then yes. The Matrix mode is better because you're not aware of it.
Happiness and fulfillment are separate.
You might be happy, but left unfulfilled, just as you can sense a finality or achievement without happiness.
If you wish to be truly at peace with your existence, you must plant a seed that you know you will never see flourish in your time. But it will help the next generation.
Depends on your beliefs. If you believe there's some sort of spirituality to reality, whether that's religion or just some unknown purpose it's understandable people would find running away into dreams as an action to be looked down on. But if you don't hold any beliefs like that, it's hard to argue that there's anything wrong with choosing to perceive the world in a different way. After all it isn't like we perceive the same reality as anyone else even in the normal world anyway.
At the end of the day, it all just comes down to your own beliefs and the type of dream world you end up in. If you're truly happy and fulfilled in the dream it's pretty easy to give it the okay, but if you're simply using the dream to run away from your problems and not truly free then it's a lot less okay.
life is a roguelike game - see how far you get before the accumulation of all anti-life factors kills you
if you dont like it adopt a religion that believes in reincarnation and re-roll
Like the Japanese believe there is a correct way to live life and to not change the status quo, so many games reflect this where any better systems or ways of life are portrayed as evil or present an absolutely insane example that your normal shitty life is ideal. The only exception is in games where somebody clealry evil is in charge and they topple the government and all the higher ups to bring forth a "normal society"
It's not so much the status quo, as there's lots of games and stories where that's treated as bad. It's more like they have a general way of life and a sort of national spirit that they value upholding, kinda like a different brand of conservative. The circumstances of the world and their society are free to change, but there's an air of the traditions being important to respect as well. That's the general idea I get from playing their games, at least. Though I doubt I have the knowledge to explain it that clearly and I don't want to sound like a pseudo intellectual like these other anons.
Life is too short to worry about the opinions of anonymous individuals on a Mongolian underwater basket-weaving forum, embrace pseudposting with irreverence - if you’re wrong, there’s no consequence beyond farming (you)’s.
I'm not worried about it, I just think it's lame. The fact is that I don't have the vocabulary or a deep knowledge of real world Japanese culture to thoroughly explain or prove concepts like this and I'm not going to put on airs about that to try looking cool, people pretending to have stuff like that when they actually don't is very sad to watch. Actual intelligence is obvious just from a smart person talking on a subject they know about.
I'll save my autistic rambles for posts about videogames I like, rather than sounding like a British TV guest who talks over people.
>if you’re wrong, there’s no consequence beyond farming (you)’s.
Not quite, because if you're wrong and you realize you're wrong, then you'll (even if eventually) have a change of mind. Which is the whole point of the discourse in the first place. Butting heads with your fellow morons to try and find the truth, or at least a better truth than the last one you had.
Humans invented "meaning" or a need to have "meaning". From the perspective of the universe, what the frick even is meaning? What are you homosexual ants on that rock whinging about?
From the perspective of us humans on Earth, meaning is determined by Power, or Will, or whatever the frick you want to call it. Who has Power determines what Truth and Reality are. They shape the world around themselves, not only for themselves but for others. Thus he who has Power also acquires Meaning by actively creating, changing, and destroying it once again for himself and others. Then, someone who insists that life has no meaning can safely be determined to be a weak and powerless individual who is doing nothing with themselves, and indeed you typically find this type of person when they once HAD a meaning and then lost it, and guess what, they're depressed! It manifests in a physical, mental, AND spiritual form! So go acquire Power... make life interesting.. make it better, or worse, but at least make it interesting, because your unique experience at any point in time is why you exist at all.
If you don't think, if you let lies (the power of others) dominate you, if you submit to boredom (the ultimate evil btw) and collectivism and sameness, then you don't really exist at all.
As the supreme ultimate israelitemaster of the NWO, I say that spamming interacial cuck porn on blue boards is man’s highest purpose. Anyone who disagrees with me is a weak goy whose house will be drone striked by IDF forces within the next 1-3 business days.
#manifestdestiny #EpsteinStan #NukeGaza
The world is filled with self-evident, inalienable truths.
People can lie to you.
You can lie to yourself.
History can be obscured, books rewritten.
But the truth has gravity. If you are unhappy, it will be reflected in your world in your personality, and you will have only fooled yourself to your own detriment.
Not really
>NOOO IT'S LE HECKIN DREAMERINO
>YOU CAN'T USE IT!!!
>So what? Reality is entirely what I perceive it to be. If the dream is indistinguishable from reality and allows me to live happily then there is no problem.
>This goes especially since I am powerless to stop my own death or the deaths of countless others
bump
living for happiness is so fricking dumb, i fricking hate hedonists and utilitarians, and i fricking hate happiness
everything and everyone is eventually going to die so instead of wasting away like a degenerate chasing after those feel-good chemicals, you should fight , realize the meaningless of the universe and life itself, and embrace it whole, your weapons are curiosity and creativity and with them you must fight tooth and nail against the void even if it's meaningless, especially because it is meaningless you must fight, and this struggle itself will be your own meaning and purpose and it will be most beautiful
if it's digital escapism and such i guess it depends whether you think you have some sort of duty to contribute to society or humanity or some shit.
if it's meaningless why does it matter, who cares
No one cares and everything is meaningless, but that's exactly why you have to create your own meaning and find fulfillment in it. Just how having children is meaningless if they someday die anyways, or eating food you like, creating something, spending time with someone you love, it's all meaningless, and yet we still do it because it brings you meaning and happiness. Rebel against this meaningless universe. Fight in spite of it, and someday you will be truly happy.
>but that's exactly why you have to create your own meaning and find fulfillment in it.
>your meaning can't be the pursuit of happiness, though, not THAT one
>create your own meaning and find fulfillment in it
and if being happy in escapism does that what's the problem? the future is determined by the billions of indians and islamics who have all the kids anyway
>you have to create your own meaning and find fulfillment in it
another existentialist moron
Objectively correct, but you posted it on the worst board
>posts self-contradicting nonsense
>is objectively correct
Choose one, if there is no telos of the universe or its inhabitants then it’s meaningless, no amount of cope will change that. The most charitable form of the argument presented is: don’t be a dumb hedonist, chasing happiness will only lead to misery. Instead chase “meaning”, (which in a technical sense doesn’t exist and is at best a different and richer form of “happiness”)
I don’t think it’s wrong to say that having a wife and kids or pursuing some intellectually stimulating occupation is better than smoking fentanyl until you die, but from the materialist purview this is merely an opinion.
A full nihilist outcome of that logic is that existence itself is without point, hence its no point in valuing it above non-existence. Death and those seeking it should not be hindered.
I could argue that we should prefer existence, but a nihilistic rejection means we have no common ground or way to argue with eachother.
Precisely, at best we could only argue on the basis of already agreed upon principles with no way to conjure an impetus for a skeptic to accept those principles (at least no impetus without appealing to some other more foundational shared principle). And regarding the impossibility of argument, one could look into the consequences of epistemological nihilism and see how disastrous that’s be if one follows that train of logic. If you don’t like/believe that to be the case, I’d suggest looking for some transcendentals to ground your worldview in.
Also that I know of ways to prove my point wrong: happypilling and living in "lies" would be an acceptable outcome if it demonstrably improved life of yourself and others long-term.
There is no argument or hypothetical a nihilist will accept that could prove him wrong. It's already a death of struggle or comprehension.
Fair enough, but how would you convince the hedonist to change his ways? As I’ve stated, without external justification you’re left bickering whether his “happiness” or your “meaning/fulfillment” are better. Resting upon subjective grounds it’s like arguing about which food truck has the better gyros, you can do it but if you reach a standstill what else can be done but to agree to disagree.
Fight towards what?
>you should fight
Fight? Fight what? You're probably some white suburbanite. You've never had to fight anything besides the urge to shit your pants because you have such a hard time getting your fat ass off the computer chair, maybe if you touched grass once in awhile and learned what life was really like for 99% of people you wouldn't be so high and mighty about whether other people can be happy or not. Those who live in ivory towers should shut the frick up and be fricking grateful for once.
>noooooo dont live life your way, life is pointless and meaningless in the end so dont
>live my way instead!
You invalidated your own argument you fricking muppet moron homosexual burger.
Video games.
How about I just call you a Black person instead
either shit bait or you’re all zoom zooms
post a more compelling idea then degen
Babby's first Camus
What if fighting makes you happy? Check mate
Getting into fights about games I’ve never and will never play sure makes me happy, it’s why I post on Ganker after all.
Frick no. I'm gonna die so I may as well enjoy it rather than go on some meaningless journey of nothingness to satisfy the pessimists and homosexuals.
>and i fricking hate happiness
Yeah I can tell edgelord, you're real special.
>everything and everyone is eventually going to die
Exactly, every stupid thing you do trying to fight the fact that you will die is more of your life that you've wasted away to entropy, you are literally letting it have power over you by focusing on it so hard. Your accomplishments, creations, children, children's children, everything is temporary, stop being a homosexual with a stick up your ass about it.
Why not just lie about being happy
No
what we experience right now might be a lie, in the sense of we perceive reality through our imperfect senses. Maybe there is an army of souls screaming in pain onto your ears and clawing at your eyes every second but we can't perceive them.
I say living a lie isn't bad if it encompasses your whole existence and its not escapism or not the base reality. Also it is if duration is limited and you fallback/awaken to base reality you were escaping from.
Its like doing harmful drugs, you might touch heaven for a while but then come crashing down to this reality that now feels even worse. Not worth unless the effects of the drug were permanent.
get back in the wheelchair
Sometimes its all someone can do to survive or live through the day, but being able to rise above it will always be more admirable.
>it's okay if daddy government lies to me and maintains total control of my life as long as i am le happy and consooming all day
Pussy menality
The government will never make us happy, we are only useful being miserable
Yes
no, because you'll blindly step into meat grinder.
No it is fine.
Unless you have the means to change something - you're wasting time, and energy worrying about shit that you have no control over.
This. took me 10 years to realize that. All that happened was I nearly died of stress from watching a world that didn't need me to care for it.
Now I just eat weed gummies and play vidya and life has been ALOT better.
It hurts because this game has really good writing and acting. But the dev was REALLY REALLY into the survival crafting shit and that killed it all.
They need to remake this game as a standard imm simm with build levels.
if you let the world fall apart around you then yeah, it is
No. I would gladly get in a machine that would just feed me all the good dreams I could ever want. Pretending that struggling at life is some kind of virtue and how hardship can be a positive aspect to you is meaningless, harmful philanthropy. There is no meaning to continuous despair and it only makes you a more jaded, hardened person that only feels less pain because they've given up hope.
Hardship is how you mature. That's an irrefutable fact in life that every living thing wished it wasn't so.
Considering everyone in that game is starving to death because they're too high off their asses to realize it, yeah.
What an interesting Rubber duck
If the government made a pill that could emulate dopamine/seratonin and that was the only effect it had, would you trust it if the government started mandating you take it?
the only thing gayer than this thread would be you homosexuals all started fricking eachother in the ass
>woah life is meaningless maaaaan
>puffs toke
>uhhhhhh hardship
>everything is a lie
>you vill own nothing you should work for no real reason
I really liked We Happy Few even in spite of the hamfisted survival stuff and the long ass walks everywhere. The aesthetics were nice.
also im pretty sure everytime this appears in media hedonistic nihilists never get any maintenance done and everything falls apart (other than like idk the Matrix or Brave New World's slave caste) so being unsustainable kinda makes the whole point moot
So sick of these homosexuals who learn about Nietzsche in their first year of Philosophy and suddenly they think they know everything. The guy was a sheltered butthole who died in the most pathetic manner, you really shouldn't take his word as gospel.
No, since it's not sustainable. Happypilling removes the ability to improve or maintain your or societies condition and hastens it's decline. There is nothing good or productive generated from simply feeling or thinking good.
Only way to avoid a same spiral a junkey goes through is to either cannibalize your inherited wealth, or have someone else manage you like a pet.
>ODing on meth is fine cause you feel good while rotting from inside
>Is living a lie really that bad if you're at least happy?
If you know it is a lie, then yes. The Matrix mode is better because you're not aware of it.
Happiness and fulfillment are separate.
You might be happy, but left unfulfilled, just as you can sense a finality or achievement without happiness.
If you wish to be truly at peace with your existence, you must plant a seed that you know you will never see flourish in your time. But it will help the next generation.
Depends on your beliefs. If you believe there's some sort of spirituality to reality, whether that's religion or just some unknown purpose it's understandable people would find running away into dreams as an action to be looked down on. But if you don't hold any beliefs like that, it's hard to argue that there's anything wrong with choosing to perceive the world in a different way. After all it isn't like we perceive the same reality as anyone else even in the normal world anyway.
At the end of the day, it all just comes down to your own beliefs and the type of dream world you end up in. If you're truly happy and fulfilled in the dream it's pretty easy to give it the okay, but if you're simply using the dream to run away from your problems and not truly free then it's a lot less okay.
I mean thats kinda the modus operandi of trannies and theyve pretty much proven the end result of living a lie for too long is suicide
life is a roguelike game - see how far you get before the accumulation of all anti-life factors kills you
if you dont like it adopt a religion that believes in reincarnation and re-roll
Yes
>living = life
>life = growth
>lie you're thinking of = stunting your growth
>life of lies = bad
Growth doesn't mean shit though.
Is-ought/appeal to nature fallacy. Just because life could mean growth, it doesn't necessarily mean that growth is inherently good.
Imagine letting your loser self do the talking lmao grow up
It depends on the person.
Like the Japanese believe there is a correct way to live life and to not change the status quo, so many games reflect this where any better systems or ways of life are portrayed as evil or present an absolutely insane example that your normal shitty life is ideal. The only exception is in games where somebody clealry evil is in charge and they topple the government and all the higher ups to bring forth a "normal society"
It's not so much the status quo, as there's lots of games and stories where that's treated as bad. It's more like they have a general way of life and a sort of national spirit that they value upholding, kinda like a different brand of conservative. The circumstances of the world and their society are free to change, but there's an air of the traditions being important to respect as well. That's the general idea I get from playing their games, at least.
Though I doubt I have the knowledge to explain it that clearly and I don't want to sound like a pseudo intellectual like these other anons.
Life is too short to worry about the opinions of anonymous individuals on a Mongolian underwater basket-weaving forum, embrace pseudposting with irreverence - if you’re wrong, there’s no consequence beyond farming (you)’s.
I'm not worried about it, I just think it's lame. The fact is that I don't have the vocabulary or a deep knowledge of real world Japanese culture to thoroughly explain or prove concepts like this and I'm not going to put on airs about that to try looking cool, people pretending to have stuff like that when they actually don't is very sad to watch. Actual intelligence is obvious just from a smart person talking on a subject they know about.
I'll save my autistic rambles for posts about videogames I like, rather than sounding like a British TV guest who talks over people.
>if you’re wrong, there’s no consequence beyond farming (you)’s.
Not quite, because if you're wrong and you realize you're wrong, then you'll (even if eventually) have a change of mind. Which is the whole point of the discourse in the first place. Butting heads with your fellow morons to try and find the truth, or at least a better truth than the last one you had.
no
Humans invented "meaning" or a need to have "meaning". From the perspective of the universe, what the frick even is meaning? What are you homosexual ants on that rock whinging about?
From the perspective of us humans on Earth, meaning is determined by Power, or Will, or whatever the frick you want to call it. Who has Power determines what Truth and Reality are. They shape the world around themselves, not only for themselves but for others. Thus he who has Power also acquires Meaning by actively creating, changing, and destroying it once again for himself and others. Then, someone who insists that life has no meaning can safely be determined to be a weak and powerless individual who is doing nothing with themselves, and indeed you typically find this type of person when they once HAD a meaning and then lost it, and guess what, they're depressed! It manifests in a physical, mental, AND spiritual form! So go acquire Power... make life interesting.. make it better, or worse, but at least make it interesting, because your unique experience at any point in time is why you exist at all.
If you don't think, if you let lies (the power of others) dominate you, if you submit to boredom (the ultimate evil btw) and collectivism and sameness, then you don't really exist at all.
>Who has Power determines what Truth and Reality are
Yes, you, the super Overman, lord of all reality, king of kings, declares that Mercury is what people should drink and that water is for sissies.
I decide you're an idiot and keep drinking water.
You and everyone as stupid as you, die.
Woops!
As the supreme ultimate israelitemaster of the NWO, I say that spamming interacial cuck porn on blue boards is man’s highest purpose. Anyone who disagrees with me is a weak goy whose house will be drone striked by IDF forces within the next 1-3 business days.
#manifestdestiny #EpsteinStan #NukeGaza
The world is filled with self-evident, inalienable truths.
People can lie to you.
You can lie to yourself.
History can be obscured, books rewritten.
But the truth has gravity. If you are unhappy, it will be reflected in your world in your personality, and you will have only fooled yourself to your own detriment.
It's like some kid read Icycalm for the first time and completely missed the point.