Is Morrowind the best western RPG ever made?
 Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
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Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
Is Morrowind the best western RPG ever made?
Is Morrowind the best western RPG ever made?
Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
|
Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
Its barely even an RPG. There are almost no dialogue options or choices in quests.
In terms of 'choice', tell me how doing or not doing particular side quest in Morrowind differs from picking from 'different' dialogue options in obnoxious cRPG slop like BG3 or Mass Effect?
No, that would be Baldur's Gate 2
>choice is not doing content
Bethesdadrones are mentally ill
>Baldur's Gate 2
It's worse than 3 in every way. You'd know it if you actually played it.
No one asked for your opinion zoomie
Its better simply by the merit of not having shitty combat.
The singularly funniest photo of any athlete ever taken.
You're remarkably stupid.
There's an entire fricking encyclopedia of dialog options in every encounter. What the frick are you on about?
Every npc in an area has the exact same wikipedia hyperlinks.
you've never played the game
I did unfortunately when I fell for "Morrowind is the best TES" meme.
Daggerfall is not better than Morrowind.
nah theres always at least 1 in an area that has a bread crumb to a secret nearby when asked for the "rumor" dialog.
"little advice" can be different too and sometimes lead to different caves, or at least has genuinely good advice for the game.
The whole idea that every characters dialog is the same is a trope from SEVERELY low IQ people who click on "background" which is obviously just flavor text of lore then they arent impressed by a commoner having th same background as another commoner, because its just generic "commoner" background and meant for world building. But things like "rumor" or "little advice" or even "little secret" can have meaningful gameplay elements behind it.
>There are almost no dialogue options or choices in quests.
N'wah right from the start of the game there are quests with multiple choices.
That is character creation. Moron.
Give Fargoth the ring, keep the ring for yourself, steal all of Fargoth's shit. Do or don't give Fargoth's shit to the Nord. Don't kill the taxman-killer, kill him and pocket the money, kill him and give the money to the official.
You can do that in any Bethesda game.
The conversation was not about Morrowind relative to other Bethesda games. It was about Morrowind being an RPG. please keep up, moron-kun.
Just pointing out Morrowind isn't special in that regard. Oblivion had one quest with choices and it wasn't until Skyrim they showed any real interest in the RPG aspect.
kek
I know. Old timers are desperate for Morrowind to be seen as different from later titles when it is just a bare bones precursor of them.
Funny how those quest at the beginning in seyda neen must be the only few ones that actually have a minimum of choice. It's like they just gave up after that.
Well anon pointed out there was lits of choices.
You could choose to not do it.
You could choose to start it and not finish it.
You could choose to kill everyone involved.
See you have plenty of choice.
But those don't feel like real "choices" those just feel like ignoring the quests. And the quests will still be listed in the journal (with the only exception, I THINK, if you kill the npcs)
What does "real choices" even mean to you? What are you wanting the game to do to make you feel like you're making a "real choice" in it?
Choices for me is the game actually acknowledging you decided to do something, even if it's ignoring the quest or not doing it. Because the npcs will just stand there eternally waiting for you with to come with some news about the matter. If the game wasn't static and dependent 100% on the player then it would make sense. Like quest having time-limit
Nobody cares what you feel.
Choices are also prevalent throughout the mage's guild, house hlaalu, and the fighter's guild
What choices other than "do or don't do quest" are you talking about?
House Hlaalu has an entire section where you can optionally gather information and turn in the quest to different people for different rewards, Mage's guild has the option to pursue different quests to take hold of the guild without killing Trebonius, it also has a few quests like the wizard staff quest where you have multiple options to acquire the required item, the fighter's guild has an alternate path where you can help overthrow Sjoring with Percius Mercius if you look for the right info.
Is that the mine location thing? Did anybody not get the Daedric weapon?
Morrowind is built around expressing your character through how you tackle a quest in gameplay, not dialogue.
you can effect sidequests, most notably the end result of the mages and fighters guilds.
Choosing which factions your character sides with, which places you go, and which things you do in those places, is more roleplaying than an NPC saying "Hero! You must save the world. Will you do it? (Yes/Yes sarcastically/Yes angrily/I'll say yes later)"
If you think an RPG allows you to roleplay because you get to pick which of 4 speech options you pick to direct you through the pre-set pathway through the game, then you don't know what roleplaying is.
How is that any different from any other Bethesda game?
Baldur's Gate II deserves that title for becoming the blueprint for the entire genre moving forward, imo.
CYOA prompts are a useful tool for adding roleplaying choices to video games, but the two things are not synonymous.
> Choice and consequence aren't vital to RPGs.
Tell me you don't know what an RPG is without telling me you don't know what an RPG is.
They're not, and also CYOA prompts aren't the only way to insert C&C into a game. TES games have very little CYOA elements, but they still have C&C. Something like Diablo or Wizardry have little to no C&C, yet are still RPGs.
They are. You can ball up your fists and stamp your little feet all you want but you have no fricking clue what an RPG is.
No, not even close.
It's not even an rpg, you don't get to affect the outcome of the story or even any sidequests.
it's kinda sloppy once you take off the rose tinted glasses tbf
It's one of the best written and immersive. Also one of the best magic abilitites.
But the side quest's were too lame for it to be the best. Every single quest is essentially one of the following.
>Kill this fricker
>Talk to this fricker
>Save this kidnapped fricker
>Take this fricker over here
>Get me this fricking thing
What kind of side quests would make it the best?
frick this fricker to continue my fricking bloodline
No but it had all sorts of great things that could be built upon in the future games, that unfortunately was never going to happen.
its boring as shit after 20 hours and the walking around in the main quest is the worst shit in any game
>Download OpenMW
>Pirate Morrowind files
>Create Dunmer Witchhunter
>Pick randon direction and go there
Yes, it's gaming time.
Far from it
It's the most aesthetic one that's for sure.
Why good artists don't want to work on rpgs anymore?
it's a pretty decent "rpg" but it's a mediocre CRPG. for the record, I like TES (up till Skyrim).
I love Morrowind, it's one of my favorite game of all time.
My only problem with the game as an edifice (not the actual content of the game itself) is that every year that ticks by, it gets harder and harder to re-install it and play it because it's fricking 21 years old and the more time that goes on, the more mods stop working, stop being available, and new tech pushes out old files. And I just don't have the patience to do all the file merging, generating, patching, etc. to get a new install running.
We have a new engine now and the game really doesn't need so much modding as to create the headache you imply.
>and the game really doesn't need so much modding
If you haven't played the base game enough times to have gone to every location, seen every dungeon and quest, and hoarded every treasure, then I don't think you are old enough to speak on the subject.
That doesn't mean that you need to have forty sources of new content installed at a time requiring an elaborate merging process.
There is one valid argument to make and that's script-based mods.
>That doesn't mean that you need to have forty sources of new content installed at a time requiring an elaborate merging process.
Sure it does. What, you're going to install something to add dungeons, items, armors, or quest expansions, and then just uninstall them afterwards? No the frick you're not.
Unless you're one of those people who pretend that "No, you can't mod it unless it's just adding a little bit of grass!"
How the frick do you reach the supposed maturity of exhausting all vanilla content and still feel it absolutely mandatory to play with Bethesda-brain and do everything in one playthrough? Install enough modded content for one character, be free of installation difficulties, and start a new character for the next batch. When you ask "and then just uninstall them afterwards?" the answer is "Unironically yes." Stop creating problems for yourself and pulling dumbshit mental gymnastics when people tell you that you've done so.
>When you ask "and then just uninstall them afterwards?" the answer is "Unironically yes."
There is literally only one goal in Morrowind. It isn't to beat Dagoth Ur, it isn't to become the leader of a faction, it isn't to level up and kill Vivec or whatever. The goal of Morrowind is to find every valuable item in the entire game, and then fill the biggest and more ornate house you can find with those items so that you have a treasure room that contains everything.
If you're just going to uninstall shit, then half of the shit you're collecting is going to disappear, meaning you're playing incorrectly.
make
a
new
character
moron
While an excellent first step under Todd Howards leadership the game itself is mediocre at best.
No. Morrowind is good because it has a decent amount of depth for its scope, but the fact that it doesn't heavily commit to a few avenues of play limit it from being "the best". I'd argue Deus Ex is probably the best.
What games actually give you real choices. None. Video games are programmed experiences where you choose from a list of premade options.
> You don't have any choices other than the choices you have.
Well you aren't wrong but I don't think you made the point you thought you made.
It needs a fresh coat of paint graphically.
Lots of work under the hood as well.
oblivion is funnier and that is the only objective quality i care about
ouh wow i can go gay little quest that takes 20 minutes is really interesting. show me a guy with a funny voice that confused because i pressed ctrl on my keyboard please
New Vegas mogs it.
New Vegas was the least successful modern Fallout game. Every other Fallout entry was more popular. From 4 to Shelter to 76 they all surpassed NV. It is loved by a very small but vocal cadre.
>New Vegas was the least successful modern Fallout game
It's also the only one worth playing. Fallout 3 was Oblivion with guns, and Oblivion was shit, and Fallout 4 is genuinely among some of the shittiest and least entertaining games I've bothered playing. Anyone who equates sales to the quality of a game forfeits their right to talk critically about video games.
I believe the audience decides that and they largely rejected NV.
You're a fricking idiot.
I am glad you enjoyed it. Not many did. Obsidian has never been very good at the actual making of games and the initial launch being a cluster frick really hurt the games reputation
New Vegas sold 13 million copies, which is more than 4 and 76.
That is not even close to true. The 76 sales of the base game is correct but when you factor in the add ons 76 has made more than triple what NV did.
They went the ESO route and are mercilessly bleeding whales. I probably agree with you that is a horrible business model but it does work.
Fallout 4 beat Skyrims sales numbers the first year before dropping off a cliff so whoever told you NV beat it is an idiot
>The 76 sales of the base game is correct but when you factor in the add ons 76 has made more than triple what NV did.
Source?
>Fallout 4 beat Skyrims sales numbers the first year before dropping off a cliff so whoever told you NV beat it is an idiot
That's bethesda marketing speak. The only information I can find is that they shipped 12 million units. The game probably didn't sell as well as you think considering they didn't even release official sales numbers.
76 had 5 million initial sales.
They are on their 10th add on. The subscription is also a factor. Even with conservative estimates 76 is closing in on a billion dollars in revenue , not profit, generated.
>Even with conservative estimates 76 is closing in on a billion dollars in revenue , not profit, generated.
Stop pulling numbers out of your ass
It is all observable data. We know how much each addon costs. We can see the player numbers on steam and Xbox.
You can only see concurrent players
You have no idea how much each addon sold nor how many morons actually subscribe
Yes it is very likely they are all playing just the base game.
There's like 5k concurrent players on steam, even if they all bought the addons and suscribe it's not even close to 1 billion dollars in revenue, moron
> The only place you can play games is steam.
You are correct about one thing. There is a moron in this conversation.
NV is my favorite FO but there's no chance it sold more than FO4. Even though, that other anon is full on bullshit saying it is the least succeful FO. It sold WAAY more than FO3 overtime. It might have been less successful when it originally released (and that also might have been because it looked more like a DLC/Expansion than an actual new game), but now it's clearly more popular and beloved by a lot than FO3.
It did not beat FO3 in sales. The horrid launch of NV made sure of that.
In steam FO3 has like 8k reviews while NV has around 140K reviews. I know you're gonna say that people might have bought it on physical/console when it came out and not played through steam but really doubt they even with that FO3 can even or surpass the amount of NV sales
So if you knew your argument was flawed why did you make it?
It's not flawed. It actually proves my point. Because while steam has actual objective numbers, the original sales are just hypothesis since it cannot be counted.
> Well ackshually you proved my point.
Not sure if you are merely pretending or not.
I just said I already knew what you were going to answer to me. I that even with that "argument" I still think NV sold way more just based on the steam numbers which are just massively superior
> Haha you played into my trap. By telling you I was talking out of my ass it invalidated you telling me I was talking out of my ass.
Well played anon, well played indeed.
I don't know if you are trying hard to not concede while knowing you don't have an actual good argument or what. The only thing you do is complaining about how I phrased my comment without even discussing the actual matter like (at least) I'm trying to do.
Concede to what exactly? You admitted in your post you realized the flaw in your argument. You seem to think admitting that fact is some sort of prophylactic against criticism.
Sadly for you that is not the case.
>"This games has clearly sold at least x15 the amount of total copies the other game sold on steam. And I know what you're going to say (release/physical sales blablabla) but I don't think even with that the sales from FO3 can surpass the massive amount NV has based on how huge the difference is in the (public and objective) numbers from steam"
>"HAHA! YOU JUST FELL IN YOUR OWN TRAP BY REFUTING THE ARGUMENT I JUST ACCEPTED I WAS GOING TO GIVE!"
Why are you going full moron?
You never go full moron.
Nah, Fallout 4 is still in the same ballpark in terms of popularity to the Witcher 3 in terms of player count. Both around the 10k mark on Steam. The Witcher 3 sold 50m and came out the same year. So Fallout 4 sold extremely well. It’s the second most modded game on the Nexus. More people are playing Fallout 4 on consoles than games like GOW Ragnarok and Hogwarts Legacy. The only reason we didn’t get sales numbers for Skyrim and Fallout 4 was that Zenimax for the longest times was a private company so it made no sense to give people updated sales counts.
The one good thing about the Microsoft acquisition is the sales numbers will be made semi public in the share holders meetings. They will likely get leaked shortly after they are revealed
Yes and it's not even close. New Vegas is second best.
Yes.
Bro fist.
>BAWAH BIG BABY WHINING
It's not a perfect game but it has SOUL and immersion like no other.
Pure bethesdaslop, maybe a 6, 7/10 if I'm generous
That would be Darklands.
KOTOR 1 or 2, depending on your preference
I missed the key in the dwemer dungeon.
I don't know what to do
it's right at the beginning
Yes actually, it's a well rounded sandbox with a lot of things to play around with. I like how the RPG aspects are presented through gameplay and not character dialogue. There's stuff like the reputation system which is your renown in the world gained through feats and adventuring, and every NPC respects it, allowing you to bypass content if you want to.