Is Seath the most powerful Souls character lore-wise? He can’t be killed and had a hand in pretty much everything.
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Is Seath the most powerful Souls character lore-wise? He cant be killed and had a hand in pretty much everything.
>"can't be killed"
>gets killed
Because you stepped right into his phylactery vault. And his soul is shown to possess people, as we saw with the Duke Tseldora.
He’s a more successful parallel of the Witch of Izalith.
Because it's a Miyazaki game so every quest has to end with going insane or dying.
The thin crystal hidden deep in an enchanted cavern was symbolic for a hymen. We fricked Seathe's dragussy.
>breaks immortality crystal
>kills his ass
Nope not really….. probably golden age gwyn
He moves really slow doesn't he, if he wants you dead you can just move your entire city out and build a new one before he gets there
Capra demon is more powerful, because he's a strategic mastermind.
I want to frick his daughter so bad.
FEET
Why did he go insane from reading some books? What did he discover?
Le heckin lovecraftian themes, you just wouldn't understand
Unironically seething.
seathing
>wtf how does this work
>wtf
>frick it
>okay so if I just mess with my soul a little bit?
>AIEEEEEE
As Riggs stated, Logan did not believe in gods or transcendence, only truth. He failed to realize that truth transcends, especially that of the fragile human mind, and in his hubris he drove him to the edges of madness in his undying quest for inhuman information.
It’s tragic, really. He thought his mind capable of understanding everything. Even Seath lost his way.
>Riggs
Griggs*
That's kinda nonsense given Aldia's research, even Straid of Olaphis came to that conclusion. I think it's more a case that whatever was 'in' Seath's books is what sent him mad. It's more like an overload of information is too much for the mind (which is soul) to contain, or as Logan put it when talking about Seath, "Some say he had an unsound fixation". The obsession emotion seems to be the catalyst for them all.
>That's kinda nonsense given Aldia's research
Have you SEEN Aldia? The idea that humans can’t understand everything comprehensively is sound. We’re stuck in three dimensions. The key is knowing when to approach your limits.
>Have you SEEN Aldia?
Cool fire tree guy 🙂
>Have you SEEN Aldia?
Have you seen Straid?
He looks like one of those old homosexual men past their prime
With the voice of an angrier Frampt
The crystals throughout the archive probably drive people crazy as well.
There is knowledge some people can't accept. If you found out the universe was simulation and you weren't real, you'd deny it outright. If you were faced with an immutable truth proving that fact, that you are nothing but 1's and 0's in a machine, you'd eventually have an existential crisis and break. Similar idea here.
>If you found out the universe was simulation and you weren't real
If you're part of a simulation you're still real, because the simulation is real and you're part of it
What is simulating it though?
>If you found out the universe was simulation and you weren't real, you'd deny it outright.
Nah.
Imagine that someone, either in the far future or on an alien planet or whatever, made a perfect simulation of the entire universe. Since it includes the entire universe, it would by definition also include the computer that the simulation is running on, so you get a simulation of a simulation. And in that simulation, you'd get another simulation, and so on into infinity. Logically, it would lead to a situuation where you have a single "real" universe and an infinity of "fake" universes. With that in mind, the odds that our specific reality is NOT a simulation are infinity to one. In other words, it's almost certain that we're living in a simulation.
Such a joe Rohan nihilistic take
>in some parallel universe out there, my peepee ISNT small!
>t. couldn't accept the knowledge
That is such an incredibly stupid thing to believe.
Nice Roko's Basilisk rlp-off.
I wouldn’t be bothered if our universe was a simulation, since it is a pretty damn sophisticated simulation.
It may even be simulations all the way up and down.
>find out all life is a simulation
>thank god, none of this agony is real!
At least use an analogy that is actually terrifying.
Yeah if anything that just justifies suicide which is a tremendous relief
Suicide? If life was a simulation I could finally live without fear.
Because some knowledge is just too much. Why does nobody in ANY Soulsborne game ever question how an afterlife works? Or who created the dragons or how Queen Marika found TLB or anything else? I think most people in-universe don't ask the bigger questions because the truth frightens them.
Mystery/horror is a key element of the Souls series, yeah, despite its game-ish nature. Reminds me of A Song of Ice and Fire. Magic is functional ignorance, like when chemistry and astronomy were considered magic.
Queen Marika realized something horrible and shared this horrible information with Sir Gideon Ofnir, who was similarly obsessed with knowledge—even non-sorceries.
If you pay attention to Elden Ring’s magic, you also notice that the magic has elements of sacrifice or something unfortunate involved. Like the flame of frenzy turning your eyes into mushy grapes, or bloodthorn sorceries requiring you blind/bleed yourself (blinding yourself to ‘see’ knowledge is a theme in asoiaf), or glintstone crystallizing the body, heart and brain. Etc. Or how eating dragon hearts turns you into a big ass man-lizard.
These side-effects aren’t demonstrated mechanically, only in the lore.
>These side-effects aren’t demonstrated mechanically, only in the lore.
Yeah! Why the FRICK don’t we turn into cool space crystallians like Lusat and Azur?
I just assumed it was a "I learned how tiny and worthless the world is in the universe and now I am le depressed" type of nihilistic shit. He learned the true nature of the world and it shattered his spirit
The concept of going insane from knowledge has never made sense. Name one person in real life who went insane from le unfathomable truths.
The reality is that is depends on the person and their held psyche. A Christian a thousand years ago would probably kill themselves if they talked to a cringe atheist redditor from today.
It's more a case that obsession leads to madness. It happened to Seath, Logan, Manus, the Witch of Izalith and Oceiros, the Consumed King.
>obsession leads to madness
Bingo
Everyone on /misc/ including me you frogshitter.
>he has never consumed entheogens
all of us in here homie?
I thought the deal with undead going hollow is that as long as they have a goal or just something to "live" for they won't go hollow, Solaire getting the Sunlight Maggot making him believe he found his sun makes him go Hollow because he fulfilled his goal and had nothing left to do, Logan's whole deal was learning all he could and at the end of his quest he reached the zenith of knowledge in sorcery having nothing to live for anymore he goes Hollow.
The reason why killing the maggot/not helping Logan and having them essentially fail in their mission has them not go Hollow is that failure makes it easier to look in new directions in life.
Logan just stays in one place forever because that's how his quest works if you don't bother with it but Solaire found new meaning after he failed, maybe it was to continue helping you.
Solaire didn't go hollow he just simply went insane
ok but I still stand by my main point
Logan tried to become Seath so shed his clothes in an effort to become naked, or ‘scaleless’. Only when naked and bare does one learn the inner mysteries… lol
Same. Solaire and Logan were becoming more hollow the closer they got to their goal.
Find it funny how the last guy to go Hollow was cannon fodder who probably died billions of times to enemies and bosses yet persevered for one small painting girl
He either
>a)
Accomplished his goals of learning the secrets of crystal magic and therefore had no reason to keep on going.
or
>b)
He couldn't figure out anything past crystal magic and in knowing that he was at the limits of what he could learn, lost the will to live. Because that's what it means to go hollow.
He kept going and going and going until he cracked, to the point where he tried to be naked or ‘scaleless’ like Seath! It’s why he invented White Dragon Breath. He wanted to become a dragon! But not just any dragon, he wanted to become Seath!
It could be he's going through the process of becoming a dragon
Possibly doing so means giving up your mind and humanity to achieve the goal
Bro started puffing that crystal blue and lost his mind
Is that why seath is so nuts
He kept shoving his snoot into pots of suspicious powders
That crystal blue persuasion do be hitting hard on a human
That Gwyndolin has an animal bussy and that Priscilla has an animal pussy
Did we ever discover why he is called "Big Hat" Logan? Like that's a pretty weird nickname for a person
It's a misspelling of Big Hate, because of how jealous he made other sorcerers
The text literally tells you why. He wore a big hat so he wouldn’t have to deal with all the stares and gossip around him. He wanted to blot people out. Makes sense for a genius who stands apart from the rest.
There’s definitely a connection between Seath and Gwyndolin, much more than there is between Seath and Priscilla, even. Do you think Gwyn sent his son to stay with Seath for a while? Did Seath experiment on Gwyndolin? Teach him sorcery? Is Gwyndolin Seath’s child, perhaps? The same way people claim Priscilla is Seath’s child? We can only guess. But the connection IS there.
Because he put 50 points in int for white dragons breath only to learn it sucks, and there is no respec in dark souls 1
the great thing about the dark souls universe is even if you succeed in doing what you want to do, you still go hollow because now you have nothing to live for 😉
That's why Patches is the strongest undead. He only goes hollow at the very end of time when there is nobody around to be a dick to.
Going insane from "knowledge" makes no sense. There is no such thing as knowledge beyond human understanding, it only exists in low IQ morons imagination and fantasies (like most people here). So the only way his insanity actually makes sense is that it convinced him that he needs to act the way he does by changing his view of the world, himself and his values. He obviously tried to turn into a dragon and achieve immortality just like Seath, so maybe along that process he became bitter or convinced he needs to turn to violence to achieve his goals. But obviously this is fiction and so it's probably just the basic "it just drove him crazy idk"
His obsession for knowledge is what sent him mad. Obsession is the catalyst.
He read about 2023's earth and all the Black person troony shit.
Nah it's Everlasting Dragon
Seath dies like a b***h and is a traitor
>hit the tail
>dont give a frick
>get a weapon
>can join covenant
>BECOMETHEFRICKINGDRAGON
I KNEEL
I'm still totally confused by this character lore-wise. I really wished they dived into him more in the later games.
The souls games seem to imply that the best way for dragons to survive is to convince humans to become them
So he set up shop down there where only the wisest and strongest can get to him
There is a dragon covenant in every game
Yeah but how did he survive the war, why is he fused with the trees, and why is he seemingly immortal?
Could be he hid away or another thing could be he's a descendent from the everlasting dragons and is pretty young
He maybe fused to the trees to supplement his immortality and became as old as them
Yeah I mean those are all good theories, but I just would have liked From to have had expanded on it a bit more.
Or at least bring the character back at some point.
That's Souls games for you
They will give you the crumb and never tell you where the rest of the bread is
It's just how it is for those games
Sometimes it's good mystery, sometimes it just sucks
>How did he survive the war?
The same way Kalameet or Midir did. You either lay low or strike a deal with your conqueror.
don't make me post the video
Which one?
this hour and a half of incoherent autistic lore rambling
spoiler alert, the stone dragon is supposedly havel himself if you're to understand anything about this video
Why is his head so small? So fluffy?
Madness, like genius, is relative.
Why is he fine with you chopping his tail off?
Who do you think made the Everlasting Dragon that you see there? Notice how it doesn't have legs? Notice how it's guarded by a Hydra (a creation of Seath) and those clams you find in the Crystal Caves? The everlasting dragons were all killed, that isn't a survivor, it's a recreation, it's Seath's creation
>Godfather of sorcery in all its forms
>Doesn’t use sorcery in his fight
I find it funny, I do
It's just very feral like roars and magic breath. I think he's gone insane so that's all he can do
He does the OP crystal beam at the first "fight". It's proper dark souls lore making to come up with a reason that the devs intentionally didn't have Seathe use it for the real fight, but there isn't.
He casts crystal explosion sorcery in your initial (unbeatable) fight with him.
What’s funnier is how big he is. How does he get around the Archives? Probably teleports or takes control of his Channelers (seeing through their eyes).
>How does he get around the Archives
always perplexed me. he is the biggest boss in the game by far. how does he navigate his human proportioned library filled with small human sized books and staircases?
It adds to the surreal folklore charm of the game. The sizes of persons and the inconsistent architectures that supposedly held them.
You just have to assume that he can teleport like his channellers. Or he takes control of them, seeing through their six eyes. I think ‘channeller’ is literal, in the sense that they ‘channel’ Seath, or just his glare/ire. He’s spying on the chosen undead from the moment you reach the cathedral.
good posts and my head canon I will tell others this regardless of truth, nerdy Seath in his gamer crystal chair with 6 monitors controlling channelers is awesome
What's important in the archives?
Books.
Books that can be carry out to anywhere.
The archives itself is but just a worthless building.
Books and the knowledges in the books are what important.
So what's funny would be the Channelers reading the book to Seath like it's baby's nap time.
Seath's lasers and explosions are sorcery, as are the crystals that result from those attacks.
But would Alonne beat Ivory King?
I believe Seath ignited the First Flame, and here is my argument:
>Witch of Izilith and her daughters were not Pyromancers, they were Flame Sorcerers
>Prior to the Bed of Chaos incident fire magic was a form of sorcery
>Quelana is called the MOTHER of pyromancy for teaching it to humans, whereas Seath is called the GRANDFATHER of sorcery
>Seath is therefore beyond the greatest master of sorcery: he is the very origin of sorcery itself
>If Seath is the font of all sorcery, then flame sorcery must also stem from him
>Seath, as a dragon, would have existed in the Age of Ancients, before fire
>If Seath came into being without scales, then he is actually the true origin of disparity
>Seath ignited the First Flame out of anger at being the sole being in existence to be different
I've kind of just vomited what I could remember, so apologies for the format.
I've been discussing this idea with friends of mine for literally 10 years.
if you can talk about this stupid shit with your friends for a decade straight and they aren't sick of your shit, they're definitely keepers
The 3 guys I lived with at university were also obsessed with Dark Souls. I spent 75% of my time either playing or watching it. We used to do weird challenge runs and shit. If I sent them each a message right now saying "What do you think the deal is with Gwyn's wife?" I'd get serious responses within minutes.
seath was created by the first flame, bro. The FF is a representation of disparity and Seath couldnt be born without it. He is OF it.
Did you know that diamonds are created by combining intense heat and pressure with stone? Regular dragons are just things of stone...but Seath IS that diamond. Seath is what happens when a dragon is created with the First Flame alight. Seath's only mistake was being born after the world decided that things could die.
So no he didn't alight the First Flame...he couldnt EXIST without the first flame.
This is a misunderstanding.
All dragons come from rock and have no soul. The reason Seath is different is because the First Flame, split into different aspects of reality creating differences. Because Seath was born after these differences came into existence, he was born without scales. The crystals that are on him in the boss battle is the result of him experimenting on himself. He actually became everlasting, but his obsession for stone scales is what sent him mad. He really couldn't accept that he will forever be flawed.
As for your other point, that's more a geology lesson.
Element: Single material.
Compound: Two or more elements bonded together.
Mineral: Name of compound with bonds structured in a particular way, such as Sodium Chlorine making the mineral Salt.
Rock: Two or more minerals compacted together into a solid format.
Stone: A rock shaped or crafted for a construction.
Crystal: Inorganic material growing from electromagnetic bonds, such as Sodium Chlorine making Salt as salt is a natural forming crystal.
I want to frick his (and Gwyn’s) son Gwyndolin so bad bros
I see im not the only one who thought they were secretly gay
Also seath’s lord soul shard is bigger than the shard of the four kings
Obviously it meant gwyn favoured/liked seath more
Also the concept art for seath looks like he’s pregnant
He is one of the two most powerful in King's Field
>Dark Souls bring back Seath and Guyra
>nobody cares
>Dark Souls 3 brings back Anor Londo and Gwyndolin
>REEE RIPOFF RIPOFF FROMSOFT RAN OUT OF IDEAS
This is why I prefer, or just respect, Dark Souls 2 more than 3. It felt more like
Its own thing.
Why is it ok for DS2 to reuse Ornstein (not even changing him in any way) but if DS3 brings back Gwyndolin and changes him drastically it's an uninspired ripoff?
ds3 also resued orstein you fricking moron
No it didn't
Ornstein is an optional fight, they change him to dark instead of lightning, and I don’t think it’s confirmed that it’s even him. Could just be a LARPer wearing his armor like false knight in hollow knight or something. Also one boss is different than constant returning NPCs, areas, bosses, and motifs.
They are from a different series numbnuts.
so is the moonlight sword but thats in all fromsoft games
and what about kalameet?
Again, different series.
Moonlight Sword is more like a running gag. Bringing shit from Demon's Souls to Dark Souls 3 would be fine. Bringing shit from Dark Souls 1 to 3 is just extremely lazy.
you are unbelievably stupid
Why is it fine to bring shit from a different series but not from the game you're making a sequel of? If masterchief comes back for Halo 3 it's a shit game but if the protagonist was doomguy instead it would be a lot more inspired?
Sequels bringing up material from their predecessors aren't lazy. The way they introduced or tackled it was lazy. Stuff like the universe converging on itself should've meant they had a whole host of ideas to introduce. But they just rehashed the concept of Linking the Fire and stopping or adhering to an Age of Dark. Stuff like finding the mushroom woman dead or the Abyss Watchers being Artorias fanboys. Millions of years could've gone by and Artorias is still a thing of knowledge?
I agree that part makes no sense, which is why they came up with the "time is convoluted" excuse. I don't think it's good writing, but From has always rehashed concepts from their previous games. Singling out DS3 for it is stupid considering every game did it including DS1
I really like the quotes from these games
>This cesspool of doddering oldfolk and degenerates. Couldn't be better. She must fit in perfectly here
>you have a heart of gold, don’t let them take it away from you
>I beg of you, remember my name. For I may not
>The nice thing about weapons...they never betray you. So pay them a little respect, eh?
>weapons...they never betray you
ENTER
Nah, it's probably Gwyn or Manus.
Sure there are a lot of powerful beings in the other souls games too but they never get as praised by the item descriptions or trailers as Gwyn does.
Manus might be even more powerful than Gwyn because Gwyn was scared as frick of him/the abyss and time was on Manus' side because the fire tends to fade sooner or later in every "cycle".
for such an important lore character in a game with so many good designs, manus really looked fricking lame, didn't he?
He’s a big gorilla, yes. Even his daughters have more personality. Perhaps that’s why they came across as more dangerous than him; they’re womanly cunning. Kek. Manus had that raw ‘sinking your city NOW’ power, but his shards/daughters actually went about seducing and ruining kingdoms.
Or maybe Manus was a handsome chad who tried seducing Dusk?
I don't care what anyone says, Artorias in his prime mogs everyone in Souls.
>Mind Raped by manus
>An enormous fraud
>Gets killed by chosen undead albeit weakened
>probably the biggest jobber of the four knights of Gwyn
You sure?
you have the reading comprehension of a carrot.
i told you that i don't care what anyone says.
kys soon please, weebtroon streamer watching zoomzoom
>be artorias in his prime
>get mogged by manus
you really didn't think that one through, did you?
What I don’t understand is how Artorias had sexual intercourse with Ciaran. Big height difference.
A common theme through the games is that the leaders of the main religious body often are corrupt and have ulterior motives. While the average follower is kind and firm in their beliefs
is he the leader
No but he’s high ranking and i think it’s a good example
>the leaders of the main religious body often are corrupt and have ulterior motives
I'd add that they're cowardly too, my favourite display of this is how Petrus keeps homeward bones in his secret stash because he's afraid to go through the graveyard. In DeS too, when you talk to the clerics they're all quite pathetic and don't understand what they're worshipping. The corrupt thing is a Japan/JRPG thing generally.
I like how I the end the priest that claims he was talking to god, starts having a mental breakdown after hearing the real voice of god
>leaders of the main religious body often are corrupt and have ulterior motives
wow very original never seen that before
> leaders corrupt
>While the average follower is kind and firm in their beliefs
It would be interesting to see a series where this is flipped.
Its me vaati, thanks for the lore gays. Time to make some good money!
The Primordial Crystal may have been partly the reason for the Everlasting Dragons’ ‘immortality’, which Seath stole, allowing Gwyn and his forces to defeat them and break through their scales, as seen in the opening cinematic.
Seath then proceeded to experiment on the crystal, and himself. It is a bit too coincidental.
I think it was more that they couldn't die from old age while Seath would eventually had it not be for the crystal
Seath then tried to understand the crystal so he wouldn't need it but he went too crazy while trying to understand it so just surrounded himself in it and lodged it into his skin
Definitely one of the coolest lores and bosses in the Souls series, but definitely not the most powerful.
I would have liked to know what exactly his endgame was though. Like never really understood why he was just chilling in Anor Londo when by all accounts, it would have totally made sense for him to try taking over the kingdom by that point because he was pretty much the only royal figure to not be suffering from the curse.
>I would have liked to know what exactly his endgame was though
It was to become immortal like his kin so he experimented
But he never found what he was looking for
>definitely not the most powerful
He literally invented sorcery and is impossible to kill. With prep-time he is unbeatable.
Having the highest potential, and being the most powerful are two different things.
He may have theoretically been able with time to become the most powerful, but he never actually reached that point and as such is in fact not the most powerful in actuality.
>he never actually reached that point
Nothing you can do to him will hurt him. His initial encounter is literally insurmountable. He’s an invincible crystal lich-dragon. You HAVE to work around him to beat him.
>barely tap crystal
>explodes
wow so powerful
Why do you think liches hide their phylacteries, moron? The player went to some great lengths getting to it, all things considered. The crystal cave is a terrible area.
>I would have liked to know what exactly his endgame was though.
He only cared about becoming an everlasting dragon. He achieved that goal by fusing himself to the primordial crystal, but he wasn't happy being imperfect, he wanted to be a everlasting stone scale dragon, not an everlasting crystal dragon. His obsession for perfection led to his madness.
He was trying to give himself everlasting scales. The Primeval Crystal sustained him but was imperfect because well, we smashed that shit easily.
Plus, Gwyndolin was basically still in charge of Anor Londo and still far more sane.
Lets see
>wants to become immortal
>seen in the op grabbing dragon scales that shatter easily
>found cool immortality crystal
>now is covered with crystals
>crystals cause curse that turns people into stone
>kidnaps women
>women get turned into blue repitilian things
>crossbreed priscilla
My guess, he was trying to revive ancient dragons to find a way to get their stone scales in a way that they dont lose their immortality power and implant that onto himself.
Was Gwyn’s original lord soul the biggest or second biggest of the four? Nitro’s soul may have been bigger. The piece Gwyn gave to Seath is rather larger than the piece he gave to the Four Kings of New Londo. The soul the Pygmy found was the smallest, but grew to be the largest, no?
>Was Gwyn’s original lord soul the biggest or second biggest of the four?
His was the biggest.
>The soul the Pygmy found was the smallest, but grew to be the largest, no?
A matter of perspective. The Dark Soul represents stagnation, so while it does grow consuming other souls, the other three lord souls burned until they were smaller than the Dark Soul.
from troons be like
>YOOOOOOOOOOOO LET ME ANALYZE THIS 60 SECOND LONG INTRO CUTSCENE FOR THE NEXT 500 YEARS!!!!!
>THIS SHIT IS THE SHAKESPEARE OF MY GENERATION FR FR DAWG
The lore of this still holds up extremely well.
Plague was able to explain Pricilla's creation better than any theory channel
Nah, that's one of the areas he's off. We know that Priscilla is Gwyndolin's mother indirectly through lore (Gwyndolin is Gwyn's lastborn while being the older brother of half dragon Yorshka).
>He believes Yorshka is Gwyn's child
Yorshka is moronic anon, she was clearly born after DaS and probably a result of Gwyndolin having sex with Priscilla.
Aldrich derived a memory of a young pale girl from which he derived the Lifehunt miracle, thats a memory that would require Gwyndolin to have been alive for Priscilla's banishment.
>He believes Yorshka is Gwyn's child
No I don't. Read my post again.
You're saying that Priscilla was Gwyndolin's mother. That doesn't make sense. Priscilla was banished to the painted world as a child. This is likely how it happened.
>Through some experimentation shit, or possibly even sex with Seath, Priscilla is born to Gwynevere, or Velka, or some other royalty.
>Gwyn fears her life-hunt abilities, but they can't kill her so they seal her away in the painted world along with other weird shit, like Proto-Corvians which were probably Velka's creations.
>Events of DaS happens, but the Chosen Undead never canonically exposes Gwyndolin.
>CU rekindles the flame, some of the effects of the fire fading regress and living humanity recoups into a new era.
>Anor Londo, having collapsed is rebuilt presumably by remaining inhuman "lords" based on the apparent "nobility" culture and the number of human slave hollows with dark magic abilities.
>Lothric Emerges to exist as a human thrall kingdom to sustain the age of fire each time it ends
>Gwyndolin no longer has reason to pretend to be his sister and drops the act.
>At some point in the decline the painted world is damaged and its inhabitants are expelled from it, including Priscilla.
>Gwyndolin marries Priscilla, they have a weak and sickly daughter, Yorshka.
>Corvians proliferate but desire a return to the painted world because they're rejected.
>Corvian priest/painter Father Ariandel repaints the painted world and spreads word of a new promised land for the Corvian race.
>Priscilla dies and Gwyndolin becomes sick (perhaps because of her life hunt?).
Yorshka being an heir is made defacto captain of Gwyondolin's order
>Sulvyahn moves in for the power grab and decides to lock away a beloved princess so she can't protest his ascension while still keeping sway over Irythyll.
>Gwyndolin gets vored by Aldrich.
What a load of gibberish. You could at least address the points that the lore explicitly says that Gwyndolin is Gwyn's lastborn and that Yorshka explicitly calls Gwyndolin her elder brother.
>"The Dark Moon knights were once led by my elder brother the Dark Sun Gwyndolin..."
Because Yorshka's belief that she's Gwyn's daughter seems like a lie, which is supported by the fact that Gwyndolin is Gwyn's last born.
Yorshka is portrayed as being gullible as shit, you can actually lie to her and tell her you flew to the tower's top and she buys it.
So it's likely Gwyndolin lied to his daughter about her origin, particularly considering she's a half breed which carries with it a negative perception.
>Because Yorshka's belief that she's Gwyn's daughter seems like a lie
She's recanting the knighthood speech Gwyndolin would have said. Gwyn is also the father of the gods, as in the patriarch. Allfather Lloyd isn't the father of all, is he.
GWYNDOLIN IS SEATH AND GWYN’S BUTTBABY LOOOOL
>madness is… le BAD
But it’s not? Those who stand out will be perceived as mad, but that’s because they stand out.
‘Talent hits a target nobody else can hit. Genius hits a target nobody else can see.’
Pretty sure there was no benefit for anyone from what Seath did
Only they he did was give people the ability to cast spells but that was before he went crazy
That’s like saying British colonization did no good for the world. It objectively did! The colonial powers gave the lessers medicine and infrastructure and science, etc, and life expectancy skyrocketed around the globe.
Seath gave sorcery to the world of men. You see it in Oolacile with its suspiciously close proximity to Anor Londo, and Vinheim and its dragon school. I wouldn’t be surprised if Seath taught the Witch of Izalith or Gwyndolin.
>Pretty sure there was no benefit for anyone from what Seath did
There is. All the gods want to have the power of everlasting dragons to escape the fading of their souls.
> Genius hits a target nobody else can see
Fitting, since he’s blind
Seath isn't blind, he's short sighted.
>flings own feces at wall while running around naked and screaming
sounds good bro
Gwyndolin’s tentacles and Seath’s fixation around tentacles and creating creatures with tentacles (snake like creatures with tentacles…) is a bit TOO suspicious…
I subscribe to the ‘Seath molested Gwyndolin’ theory, myself.
Gwyndolin is also associated with the moon and sorcery, just like Seath. Hmm. Maybe Seath was like a funny uncle.
The moon is to do with Velka and femininity, not Seath.
Are you moronic? Seath created/drops the Moonlight Greatsword, and created the Moonlight Butterfly. His crystal creations are also keeping a watch over the ruins of Oolacile.
That Gwyndolin is associated with the moon, has tentacles like Seath, and is considered a moon sorcerer, is not a coincidence.
Nowhere in the text is Velka linked to the moon. I think?
I don’t think that’s Velka’s symbol.
The crescent is Velka's symbol. That mask of the Crimson Set is a crow mask.
>The crescent is Velka's symbol
I don’t see it
But please do find me the source in text since this just makes my unified thoughts about the gods and their shared relations all the more cemented
>Please find me a source in the text about your environmental story telling
Why am I even wasting my time on you.
Nothing in the text on that weapon refers to Velka’s association with the moon, it is only coincidental that Leonhard has a moon motive going for him and decided to serve the goddess. Velka being associated with the moon would make sense, though.
Again, I'm wasting my time if you're not prepared to accept environmental storytelling.
Okay that’s better but still dubious. It adds into the (also dubious) idea/theory that Velka and Gwyndolin are one and the same, which I don’t buy into.
Also, enough with the pretentious behaviour. The environment is very much game-ish as well as lore-centric, and there are times when distinguishing the lore from game elements is impossible.
It’s like assuming people in this world have health bars. No, I assume they’d die from a single sword swing if they got hit by one, realistically. I’d assume a soul spear vaporizes a man completely. It’s all approximated to be a game. Some abilities don’t match up with their lore descriptions.
>Okay that’s better but still dubious. It adds into the (also dubious) idea/theory that Velka and Gwyndolin are one and the same, which I don’t buy into.
They're not the same. However, they are related. Instead of Gwynevere being Priscilla's mum, it's more likely that Velka is Priscilla's mum. Painting of Ariamis is a night time setting, Priscilla used a scythe, which has a crescent blade. The humanoid crows in DS3 carry scythes with one of them praying to a headstone likely to be Priscilla's. Again, environmental storytelling.
>it's more likely that Velka is Priscilla's mum.
schizo
I believe Velka is Gwyn's wife, this is a very old theory dated all the back way back to the early days of DaS because we're never given a proper Queen to explain the lineage of Gwndolin and Gwynevere but you have this motherly female goddess of sin who's mostly associated with a world used to store occult beings related to Velka.
We all know Priscilla was a result of Seath, it's a toss up on whether or not it was Velka who birthed her or Gwynevere considering there is "evidence" for both. Priscilla is royalty none the less, her special exile within a world kept in Anor Londo sort of shows this.
Velka could be moon related, considering Gwyn is the Sun and associated the moon light with femininity, however Velka's items seem to indicate she was teatering with the Dark and not on a good page with the other divinity.
I'm of the opinion she is, or was Gwyn's wife. I think when she was Gwyn's wife, her original name was Fina. Fina being a fickle god and Velka also being referred to as Caitha points to a god who is deceptive for their own ends. Velka is the patron for the Way of White which is also known for its charlatans. Also, there's something most people overlook. In the stat screen, there's a white halo and a dark halo. Both weapon paths use white titanite and the occult ember is located in the painted world, which as we all know is Velka's domain.
Forgot image.
The problem is Ariamis is a world for the unwanted and the deviant. You see it in the delivered box prisons and all the freaks of nature inhabiting it. Velka was described as rather rogue even as far as the gods are concerned, so it’s not unbelievable that her ilk (her spells and attire and crows/crowmen, etc) would be lumped in with the rest of the unwanted.
I also question the nature of her talisman. It has her fricking hair on it. I’m assuming her intelligence-driven miracles are rather rare in the world.
>It has her fricking hair on it.
Galadriel and Gimli moment
“I asked for a hair and she ripped out a whole fricking lock of it instead”
Velka's Talisman is supposed to represent converting intelligence into faith. The power of faith in Dark Souls is manifested through stories, so using a conduit to trick a miracle to be powered by the mind is what is happening here. Also, the Darkmoon Talisman looks like Velka's Talisman with cloth over it.
Well, yes, since it is implied throughout the entire series that miracles, sorceries and pyromancies all share a functional root. You don’t need faith exclusively to cast miracles and you don’t need intelligence exclusively to cast sorceries. They brought this over into Elden Ring.
But my point is that it’s Velka’s hair. Her fricking hair. That’s not the sort of talisman you can just hand out, unless it’s only *symbolically* her hair.
It also begs the question of how the gods perform their own miracles. It might just be magic/sorcery to them. Maybe.
Seath could supposedly replicate lightning magic in his serpent-men creations. Those cobra mages. Is lightning sorcery a thing? Seath could create life using sheer soul sorcery alone, and life was (supposedly) the domain of the Witch of Izalith’s lord soul. It’s why pyromancy is related to life.
You also have later npcs in 2 & 3 casting fire spells/sorceries out of catalysts. Is fire sorcery still around in some form? We can only guess. It’s another area where game mechanics muddies lore implications.
In Elden Ring you have those clones defending Rennala casting strange telekinesis spells at you. Probably minor gravity sorcery, even though we see no Raya Lucaria sorcerers utilizing it. Only Radahn. You’d also think the Olivinus Conspectus would pursue gravity sorcery, but apparently not.
>Is lightning sorcery a thing?
I'm of the opinion that Soul Spear is supposed to be the intelligence version of Sunlight Spear.
>You also have later NPCs in 2 & 3 casting fire spells/sorceries out of catalysts. Is fire sorcery still around in some form? We can only guess. It’s another area where game mechanics muddies lore implications.
I don't remember which NPC's you're on about, but regarding the difference between flame sorceries and pyromancies, the former is powered by the mind while the latter is powered by emotion. It's a retread of the lore in Demon Souls where Sage Freke remarks about Yuria's magic, if it comes from being emotional and a woman. Flame sorceries are lost though, but at one point in the DS2 alpha that wasn't always going to be the case (see webm).
Pyromancy is compared to shamanism in dark souls 3. You learn about the flame, but also fear it. Magic should always have a sense of fear IMO. Even in Elden Ring glintstone sorcery is a sketchy occult thing that compromises the mind and body.
>I don't remember which NPC's you're on about
Desert sorceresses in DS2
Deacons in DS3
The Leydia witches also use miracles, hexes and sorceries out of the same staff. But not pyromancies.
It seems in the lore you can cast pyromancies out of staves, as the desert sorceresses do with their mirrors.
Pyromancies may have also been intended to be female gender exclusive at one point. Read the text on Undead Rapport in DS1 or the grimoire on Pyromancy in DS3z
>Pyromancies may have also been intended to be female gender exclusive at one point.
Those pyromancies you talk about are specifically related to Chaos pyromancy. Chaos is linked to concepts like the void and life, which sum up the womb pretty well, so it's understandable why females are exclusive to it.
It appears to have been for pyromancy in-general, as you see in the following text:
‘A pyromancy tome of Quelaana containing her unique spells. These pyromancies can only be taught by a female master.’
‘Give to a female pyromancy master to learn Quelana's pyromancies.’
‘Quelana, the sole surviving witch of Izalith, once accepted a human pupil, but after the pupil moved on, she never took another.’
Perhaps you need a woman’s touch to unlock the magic, but anyone can in-theory use it.
>Chaos is linked to concepts like the void and life, which sum up the womb pretty well
There is order even to chaos.
Phallic energy is the key. :^)
God I hate female focused magic.
Gay and cringe as all hell.
But in the world of Dark Souls, Nito would be that order, of death and stillness.
I like Nito. He is neato.
Here's another NPC with a crow mask.
Love that set.
She's linked to the Darkmoon covenant
What does it all mean
i fricking hate you weebs so much its unreal
How's it feeeeeel, Seath? To be a bit~ch.
>lllllightning.
I need to know the lore of Priscilla's crossbred farts
Gwyn, during his rampage against the dragons, committed many acts of rape against dragons(female), and Priscilla is the result of one of them. Gwyn asked Seath to make a painting to trap his shame in.
patches is. he is so fricking strong-willed he doesn't ever die and persists for ages and ages as just a lowly thief guy with a spear and shield.
Why did he need invisible, though easily travellable paths leading to his not so secret cave with the one and only immortality crystal? He can just fly, and that's assuming he ever even needs to get there.
Because it’s a game first, story second. Why does Logan keep finding himself in a cage?
The very nature of the bonfire mechanic alludes to how video games work—you die, you try again, repeat.
Even the Witch of Izalith fricking up and creating Pyromancy out of old fire sorceries is alluding to Demon Souls back when fire spells were sorceries. They ripped the fire out of sorcery and made it its own thing. They made lore out of it.
NOBODY can be killed in these games, they just come back, EXCEPT for bosses and NPCs, so they're actually probably the weakest
based furtive pygmy bro making me immortal and not the big fricking boss characters. whats so bad about this "darksign" again?
Dragon butts...home.
I thought it was disciples from the thumbnail
people complaining about this were filtered. the rest of the area was dogshit but this area was quite the spectacle
These are the asses of those undead necrotic dragons, right? Like the one in Ariamis? Why do they jump so high?
Great character
Shit boss
To be fair, I played DS2, DS3, Bloddborne, and Sekiro before playing DS1. The bosses were by far the worst part. The worlds themselves are great to explore though, it could easily be a better game without bosses at all.
He's a very cool boss and major player in the dark souls universe, his presence is still very much strong even in DS3 which is insane
I hope the ER DLC gives us a good magic dragon
>caring about inferior dark souls 3 lore
el oh el
Imagine ruining the old lore
Was the real Gwynevere really that big
Asking for a friend
>He can't be killed
>Literally gets killed by the chosen undead
???
Only if you get to his crystal macguffin
You get rolled and imprisoned otherwise
>Great and powerful dragon
>lower body is some squid or some shit
How did this fricker even move?
Damn Mildred is a slam pig
Love the lore behind why Fromsoft started including invaders like Mildred in their games.
fromsoft has kinda done that character archetype thing since demon's souls. like ostrava being solaire, yurt being lautrec, biorr being siegmeyer, etc. etc.
No I mean in Mildred's case it was that a random playtester invaded the devs with that loadout and Fromsoft has kept including characters like her (random wildwoman with a cleaver) in their Souls games since.
>a random playtester decided to make a fat naked lady with a bag on her head wielding a cleaver
I wonder who it was
I believe it was one of the developers.
oh thats interesting i didn't even know that
Why didn't Seathe just try making a perfected dragon body, transfer his consciousness into it and then be happy? DS2 already established you can "make" dragons and Seathe is 100x more smarter than Aldia. Dragon corpses even exist or you could reverse engineer a drake which are descendants of dragons.
I find it odd how the daughters of the Witch of Izalith just stopped using fire sorcery. All of them.
Was it changed or altered as to be unusable? Couldn’t be. The demon firesage was still said to be a (the last) master of it, AND the first demon.
Was fire sorcery just inferior to pyromancy? Feels like the Witch turned fire magic into a living force, hence the shamanism comparison, meanwhile sorcery is something to uncover using your own intellect—not that sorcery isn’t suspiciously functional, as for whatever reason the sorcerers of Vinheim couldn’t create a simple light spell in the profession of creating glowing energies.
Homing Soul Mass and Create Light are remarkably similar. The gentle, approximative culture of Oolacile is funny. They even started making catalysts for being who weren’t sorcerers, or at least didn’t require the need for intelligence.
>They even started making catalysts for being who weren’t sorcerers, or at least didn’t require the need for intelligence.
They were starting to mirror real life culture/society. No one needs to learn how to make a fire anymore. They just buy a lighter or some other fire making device. They were more about their surroundings. Vinheim is still in its self-cantered phase/outlook. You can tell by their militant academia focus. Probably fight in wars. Their magic is solely for combat and sparring.
I wonder what magic in Anor Londo was like, personally, given its proximity to the Duke’s Archives. The Channelers appear to be able to teleport and use their own soul arrow spells. Perhaps the soul arrow lineage of sorceries originated from there.
I think it would be more probable that nobody knows how to use fire sorcery anymore. There's nowhere to study it and the knowledge was just lost as everyone started using pyromancy, which is intuitive and comes easily from within. It just became obsolete. No less effective, just impossible to learn with no teachers and no books.
ENTER
Would be truly fricked up and schizophrenic if this were true in any sort of way.
I think it would've been a much more interesting way to close the trilogy. I like both Soul of Cinder and Gael for their fights and aesthetics but narratively they feel weak.
How would a boss fight like this work? It just hovers around as you take out each of its heads? I always assumed the Primordial Serpents were odd, since they’re fleshy, and ‘primordial’ is a associated with stone.
Four Kings + Hydra
can somebody redpill me on this thing? I've seen some people say that it has a internal file name of the prince of izalyth or something similar. cut content story or something?
It's the deepest lore of DS1. It is indeed called Prince Izalis in the game files. And what does Jeremiah use to attack you? Pyromancies.
Oh and I just remembered Jeremiah also uses a whip to attack you... which can be found near the parasite. Coincidence? I think not.
Considering Ceaseless Discharge is the Witche's only son.. does this mean that's the father of Chaos?
I think that's reading too much into the name we were never supposed to see. There's definitely some connections here though
He could have been proto-ceaseless discharge.
From doesn't usually drop ideas that are cut, they just retool them.
Most of the shit cut from DaS III was just character name swaps.
Sulyvahn is basically identical to the Eclipse King with the main difference being its more apparent that the eclipse king was after the "age of hollows" ending where as Sulyvahn doesn't outright state it, but it implies it with the actions he takes ingame.
This could be true considering the player character can themselves become infected with a parasitic egg head, Jeremiah uses chaos pyromancies, and we know that things that are warped by the flame of chaos tend towards six-limbed, one-tailed forms. "Xanthoma" is a disease that produces yellow tumors, so we know that Jeremiah's headwrap is more than ornamental. And Xanthous (yellow) king is a reference to "The King in Yellow", a fictional play that references a fantastical "lost" city upon a lake, Carcosa. So there's definitely a connection between Jeremiah, Lost Izalith, and his exile, but we don't know what it is. The parasitic wall-hugger could be Jeremiah himself, the final form of a hollow infected with a parasitic egg head, or his offspring.
Vaati is a Black person.
I thought about bringing those up, but didn't because they're cut content. It does feel like there are two, distinct classifications of demons, though: those born directly from the flame of chaos (taurus, capra, leo, chaos eaters, and "true" demons), and those born from the Witch of Izalith's brood.
Quelagg seems to be the only demon that's shown to reproduce. The maggots are probably just Izailith citizens, but I believe they also fuse because I'm a big fan of the sandworm being Solaire theory.
This isn't even remotely the deepest lore in DS1. This is beginner "deep lore" and like the first thing people hear when they get into it. And it's pretty straight forward. The "Xanthous King" is a reference to the "King in Yellow", a book which inspired the Cthulhu Mythos. Xanthous being a shade of yellow. The King in Yellow is the king of the "lost city of Carcosa". So yeah the Xanthous King is a lost monarch from the "lost city of Izalith", and he is obviously infected by a demon parasite. The only thing that makes it confusing to anyone is that the writers included the "Xanthous Set" in DS2 and DS3 but completely changed its lore in a way that severs all connection to the DS1 version.
The deepest DS1 lore is probably the whole Pharis/Hovel situation, the Everlasting Dragon and Pinwheel's story
>The deepest DS1 lore is probably the whole Pharis/Hovel situation, the Everlasting Dragon and Pinwheel's story
Go on.
The concept art of the set also shows white tendrils peaking through the wraps, as well as blood stains indicating an organic mass beneath.
I has the same basic structure as the sunlight maggots, cragspiders, and chaos eaters (six symmetrical limbs and a "tail"), so it's undoubtedly another demonic life form born from the flame of chaos. What exactly its purpose is, I don't know. It could be the entity spreading the flame of chaos's influence to Blighttown. The cragspiders aren't seen anywhere in Lost Izalith, so I assume that they're Blighttown hollows who have been twisted into a demonic form, rather than something that crawled out of Quelaag's lair.
There is a cut infected hollow mid form where presumably the children of Quelagg latch onto a hollow and slowly fuse until presumably becoming Crag Spiders.
This idea was used in DaS II with the spider mount hollows who are ridden by Freja's children.
Their exclusive presence in Blight Town makes sense if they are in fact the particular demonic progeny of Quelagg, despite the parasitized hollows being cut.
He's the Oppenheimer of Dark Souls
just put manus's pendant next to seath's crystal thing and its gg
>hand in pretty much everything
Yeah, including inside Gwynevere