Is Square responsible for crippling the JRPG genre? I'd have to imagine their refusal to innovate and focus on pop culture/spectacle did lasting harm given their popularity. Think about how the bulk of JRPGs is just Square and Fatlus. Imagine an alternate timeline where all CRPGs were made by Bioware and Obsidian.
You are a blithering Black personhomosexual.
Uh oh, square janny doesn't like this one.
He's right.
>Think about how the bulk of JRPGs is just Square and Fatlus. Imagine an alternate timeline where all CRPGs were made by Bioware and Obsidian.
This is actually a really good point. Huh.
>Is Square responsible for crippling the JRPG genre?
Actually yes, they buy up all the talent and flood the market with bad unfinished games. They've been doing this for like 20 years. Pretty sure only FF14 keeps them afloat now, its fun watching their stock prices constantly plummet.
Squeenix is basically the Japanese EA.
SE just shat the bed with the mainline ones with 15, 16 and now FF7 remake. the rest are fine.
I think they are. The Wizardry inspiration in jrpgs are no longer there mostly because Square gradually begun to back away from that playstyle in the turn from SNEs to PS1. Ff7 being the officisl birth of this new paradigm, that now has left us with the current age of shit jrpgs.
I wish more developers took the rance approach and kept changing up their gameplay formula, while keep the writing style the same.
Because of Square most players and developers alike now think "RPG=extremely on-rails setpiece focused experience with numbers". The only exception of course being the SaGa series because the main guy behind it is a genuine tabletop autist. Sakaguchi and his ilk on the other hand only ever cared about making moviegames.
Ive never played saga, How does It work exactly? Off the rails. Im really curious about It but never gave It a try.
Ive played FF legend because, If that is anything alike to modern saga games.
>Ive never played saga, How does It work exactly
It's standard 4 homie in a row with mash X to win but sometimes there's generic units and sometimes there's a worse version of wild arms seperate character scenario stuff.
SaGa 1/FFL is very archaic by now and there's not a lot of carryover to the more modern titles outside of the general concept of building characters by actually doing things rather than hogging exp. until a level up.
From the Romancing trilogy onwards the games focused on open ended progression and RP choices such as having multiple main characters with their own storylines, quest branching and non linear progression that is handled differently depending on the entry, of course there's still the general idea of being able to build anyone freely but also having every character have specific niches and innate talents or weakness, some games have multiple races that have completely different mechanics when it comes to growth or basic options, then there's the more modern games from Unlimited which abstract a lot of this and focus on a more tabletop-like approach to game design and the current generation of games which are essentially all about roleplaying choices with high focus on quest choices and routes over the old dungeon crawling experience of the pre PS2 games.
The general focus of the series is experimenting with design choices while still focusing on player freedom, there's still a strong set of core mechanics but they always get minor or major adjustments depending on the game.
SaGa is shit, don't bother.
The games literally punish you for getting into fights.
No they don't.
>Square only ever makes moviegames like FF
>Despite FF also being literally just a franchise that copies more successful and influential games in the first place
FF wouldn't be a thing in the first place if DQ didn't pave the road, even the obsession with cinematic setpieces and completely linear progression can be attributed to DQ in the first place, or games like Lunar or Tengai Makyou 2: Manjimaru.
Meanwhile in the same exact company you can find games like SaGa or LaL that have nothing to do with any of that, many franchises and devs would not exist without Square since a lot of people like Yoshiro Kimura started their careers at Square.
This is also without considering how the japanese industry always, always offered things that weren't linear moviegames like FF, but nobody bought them, and to this day nobody buys them either, because all you subhumans are capable of doing is whining about anything that isn't baby tier shit with forced romance and press X to awesome.
FF's influence on the industry is largely overstated, and the worst enemy of the genre is the customer base itself.
>Imagine an alternate timeline where all CRPGs were made by Bioware and Obsidian.
It's no alternate timeline, to this day CRPGs still can't stop rehashing the garbage Bioware and Obsidian shat out, and this shithole of a board only ever talks about that too and worship those two companies as the most sacred cows of the western industry (together with Bethesda of course).
Underrated post.
>Nier in the pic
isnt Nier Automata a game made by Platinum?? i and Yoko Taro?
Taro and Platinum dont work for Square.. maybe Square is just the publisher and hence arent really responsible for it. Just like the first Nier isnt a game made by Square
>isnt Nier Automata a game made by Platinum?? i and Yoko Taro?
>Taro and Platinum dont work for Square
>maybe Square is just the publisher and hence arent really responsible for it. Just like the first Nier isnt a game made by Square
Well. No.
That's where you're getting yourself into a weird position. While NieR was developed by Cavia it was published by SE. So was Drakengard, Saito is the producer of the NieR & Drakengard series and as much as you may hate to see it this way: Saito is an Enix employee who became a SE employee after the merger.
Once you start writing off Cavia, Toylogic, Access & Applibot games you also have to start writing off every other Enix game that came from a third party studio, you have to also write off the quest games that they made for SE & Square too, so no FFT, Vagrant Story, forget the TO ports too, hey you know what. Can't really count XII either or the Crystal Chronicles sequels.
Wait, Asano was Enix too. Guess we're writing off 4WoL, Bravely, Octopath and Triangle Strategy too now. And wait didn't Nomura & Hashimoto's darling TWEWY get developed by Jupiter? That's out too, 3rd birthday got taken over by Tabata for Nomura but that was Hexadrive. Vermillion's undoubtedly another SE franchise and while it's currently in limbo it's a third party studio who handles development and Kitase has been producing.
Is anything sacred under your vision?
Yes Taro is an independent player since Cavia was defenestrated from the industry and forced to stop making shitty anime licensed slop did you know Cavia originally were supposed to develop ghibli style games and had amazing animators, some of who ended up at L5 later?.
Taro is independent and not a part of SE but Saito is, the DoD & NieR games have been published under SE so yeah, we can count that as square. Else we have to start binning a whole lot more.
What has square even done for rpgs other than make them into movies and phone shit?
>Think about how the bulk of JRPGs is just Square and Fatlus. Imagine an alternate timeline where all CRPGs were made by Bioware and Obsidian
It's sort of funny how atlus is creeping up on square despite being square for moronic hipsters, just like Obsidian outliving bioware.
It's because ironically the hipster version of those companies doesn't change the formula, so it's become a Goyslop™ Classic situation.
Fatlus surpassed SE when Persona 5 BTFO FF14
Persona 6 will be the final hit in the coffin for SE decline
FF14? The MMO?
>their refusal to innovate
tell me you are a zoomer without telling me you are a zoomer. I'm not defending square's recent practices, but they absolutely were the innovative driving force in the industry for 20 years from 1990-2010.
>they absolutely were the innovative driving force in the industry for 20 years from 1990-2010.
Nope.
>t. only played dragon quest series
Actually, their success is largely due to Nintendo beating Sega, if you compare the genesis to the snes those games are generally bolder and more experimental, and Lunar pretty much set the foundation for the entire jrpg scene from FF7 onwards, and any deviation from that isn't due to Square, but rather smaller companies willing to take risks.
i'm not sure i follow you. Lunar is a very by-the-books, inoffensive, generic jrpg. meanwhile square gave us things like FF12, kingdom hearts and unlimited saga. now i'm not saying those games are good or bad, but they were most definitely innovative. and yes, smaller companies may have taken more risks, but they were not the main, visible driving force for change.
>Lunar is a very by-the-books, inoffensive, generic jrpg
It's not "by the books" or generic, it feels that way because everyone copied it. Hell, Sephiroth is literally a Ghaleon clone. All those games you listed are derivative of other things, you're just too stupid to know any better.
>It's not "by the books" or generic, it feels that way because everyone copied it
ok, i'll but that premise. but it follows that the devs who copied it are the ones who are not innovating. meanwhile square put out tons of games for the next decade that were nothing like lunar.
*i'll buy that premise.
>it follows that the devs who copied it are the ones who are not innovating
Yeah square enix.
>meanwhile square put out tons of games for the next decade that were nothing like lunar.
They copied whatever else was popular at the time. Square follows trends, they don't set them.
The Lunar devs went on to make Grandia, FF7 came out the same year it did. Compare Grandia to FF7, which is more innovative?
the topic of discussion isn't which dev is more innovative; we're specifically discussing how square was innovative. and yes, FF7 was incredibly innovative at the time and influenced the genre for a decade.
>we're specifically discussing how square was innovative
If two devs are pulling from the same material and one makes a better game that's relevant. With Grandia we get one of the best battle systems ever and a full 3D world, new character development systems, magic combination, etc whereas with ff7 we got a snowboarding minigame.
>new character development systems, magic combination, etc
This is especially relevant because materia actually makes what character you choose almost not matter at all, so not only is it not innovative, its downright regressive.
>influenced the genre for a decade.
For the worse.
Don’t pay attention to him. He’s in denial. Trying to say that square owes its success to lunar is asinine to say the least. He’s either trolling or completely delusional.
Fricking up dragon quest basically murdered traditional jrpgs, now all that's left is legacy franchises.
Coincidentally this ties in with Nintendo's early failure to market DQ.
It's like fighting games dying off because Capcom keeps fricking up with SF.
what lol
>they absolutely were the innovative driving force in the industry for 20 years from 1990-2010.
best I can do is 1988-2001
>they absolutely were the innovative driving force in the industry for 20 years from 1990-2010.
It's interesting that you've chosen the exact time span through which PC jrpgs declined and subsequently experienced a resurgence afterwards, a 20 year span where jrpgs became less and less gameplay focused and more story focused.
Is another case of "my obscure shitty jRPG (SaGa, Phantasy Star, etc) is better than Final Fantasy but actually isn't.
Literally the opposite. FF games have historically been the most innovative from title to title, and they're largely responsible for the vast majority of the best and most impactful JRPGs of the 90s and 00s.
>FF games have historically been the most innovative from title to title
You were given actual examples to the contrary.
I don't read schizophrenic, agenda-driven delusions. My reality is an objective one.
Apparently not.
>I don't read schizophrenic, agenda-driven delusions.
You're correct in the sense that I now absorbed this post at a glance.
a contrarian is all they'll ever be
>FF games have historically been the most innovative from title to title
How?
They just are, anon. Stop noticing.
Every mainline installment since the beginning of the franchise has reinvented the genre, occasionally to its detriment. The spirit of Final Fantasy is innovation. They could have easily stayed the course and delivered safe entries based on a tried and true gameplay format like dragon quest, but instead they ventured to develop the job system, ATB, revolutionary skill and equipment systems, next level graphical presentations and story concepts. Say what you will about final fantasy, but you can’t argue that is isn’t innovative.
>Every mainline installment since the beginning of the franchise has reinvented the genre
Again how, all you listed was ATB which is a terrible system and didn't particularly change anything other than enabling dumbing down combat even more
>instead they ventured to develop the job system
....you think square enix invented classes in rpgs?
again, no one is claiming square did it first. but they were the ones that brought it mainstream and pushed it to the masses. there's a reason we get a ton of FFV topics here. "muh jobs" and all that, for better or worse.
>there's a reason we get a ton of FFV topics here
Because of a very, very small handful of idiots who can't move on and make a new thread once an hour?
>no one is claiming square did it first
What do you think "innovating" means, anon? That was the word you chose, btw.
don't intentionally be daft. the germans invented the automobile, but Ford is the one who takes claim for the innovation by bringing it to the masses.
Final fantasy 3, dumbass. This thread is about JRPGs, specially how square’s role in how the genre influenced its’ current state.
But FF3 didn't introduce custom classes. Here's a falcom game made 3 years prior to FF3's release with a fully customizable party and unique ways each class can interact with the world.
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If we look at what came prior we have all kinds of exciting things like weight systems, targeting body parts, choices and consequences, class based environmental puzzles, you name it. The rise of Square killed all of that. Jobs itself is just a worse and dumbed down version of multiclassing which already existed in Wizardry, so it's strictly regressive. Watch Wizardry Gaiden fall to wayside as squeenix movie slop stomps all over any rpg that dared to be anything more than a child's toy.
Falcom keeps winning.
This looks like shitty side scroller with tedious menus and as far as I can tell the job classes don’t do anything other than govern what equipment can be used? But all the characters just move and attack simultaneously? What’s the point of having a party? If your saying that the JRPG genre in indebted to this mess for the inception of the job system more so than final fantasy III you’re just being dishonest. Square’s implementation was playable and therefore progressed the genre. The same cannot be said for sorcerian. If anything I would say this is an over complicated attempt at imitating Zelda 2. I will say the music is pretty cool, though.
>What’s the point of having a party?
Sorcerian has 4 classes and 60 jobs that effect their growth, and throughout the game's 15 scenarios their stats and spells can be applied to overcome various obstacles like using strength to open a door or using magic to cast flight. (there are roughly 120 different spells which are crafted by combining different elements)
I wonder why nobody talks about sorcerian other than the one contrarian falcom poster on this board. It’s almost as if the game wasn’t influential at all because of the clunky implementation and lack of playability.
Sorcerian is part of the Dragon Slayer saga which lives on through Xanadu and is getting a new game soon.
?si=qegsEr0MROnAtoJa
Dragon Slayer is considered the progenitor of the ARPG genre and a key founder to JRPGs. Not sure what you mean by "nobody talks about", are you implying anything a youtube eceleb doesn't make a video on isn't important? Because that would be characteristic of a squamoron. Maybe Maximillian Dood will stream it some day.
Let’s hope a YouTuber doesn’t stream it because then it’ll no longer be obscure enough for your contrarian tastes and you’ll have to find an even shittier game to annoy people with.
because sorcerian is a japanese pc game and people on an english speaking board can't fucjing read japanese?
The schizophrenic agenda in this thread makes sense now, and it's always the same INSANE people behind it. Nice. Falcomgays keep being the worst posters on the internet.
>get dunked on
>um... you're just insane!
>um... you're just insane!
>falcomhomosexual likes to play pretend
lmao
Are you saying this is another one of moeblob's israeli plots to get people to play video games?
>Are you saying this is another one of moeblob's israeli plots to get people to play video games?
The absolute last thing that he wants is for people to play video games, because that would eliminate one of his greatest pleasures, his smug delusion that he's the only person who plays games, while everyone else just posts about them. He doesn't actually play games, he just posts about them, and projects this onto others
Dang, I guess the only way to defeat him is to play video games...
Legitimately what the frick are you talking about?
Because not even the franchise creators agree with you, FF was never about experimenting or innovating, it was about playing it safe and sticking to what already worked.
you are either gaslighting and failing miserably, or thinking of the dragon quest series. FF8, 12, 13, 15 were innovative to the point that they upset a lot of people with the changes that were made.
>FF8
Remove gameplay entirely so it's just a movie
>FF12
Copy MMO world design
>FF13
Make a movie again, now with hallways
>FF15
I didn't play this so I don't even know, but I'm gunna guess they made a movie, but this time with a ubisoft open world
Innovation!
i don't think any of you are arguing in good faith. your points all boil down to "I don't like this mechanic, therefore it's not innovative." again, whether the changes are good or bad are irrelevant. the FF series has a ton of stinkers and failed ideas. But to say something like junctioning, where you tie magic casts to stats, is anything other than a novel idea, would just be wrong.
>leveling doesnt matter due to leveling scaling
>so lets introduce an alternative leveling system that is not scaled on top of the scaled system
Innovation!
They're schizos on a schizo board on a schizo website. Of course they're "arguing" in bad faith.
I'm sure if Squaredrones repeat schizo schizo schizo enough it will change reality that Square has always been a trend follower and not a trendsetter.
Maybe in your schizo bubble.
Now say that without crying.
That's another one of your delusions in your schizo bubble. Massive self-own, buddy.
You really can't say this without crying lmao.
>he keeps proving how unstable his schizo echo chamber of a mind is
ohnononono
>he keeps proving
that you're crying.
>schizo literally has a fully fleshed out mindscape in which he envisions people crying, and he acts as if this schizophrenic mindscape reflects reality
SCHIZO MOMENT
When you say things like "schizophrenic mindscape" you might be the actual real life schizo.
You're unironically visualizing something within your schizo mind and posting as if that visualization is objective reality. That's called delusion.
Exchange contacts and FRICK already. I didn't buy all this popcorn for nothing.
>But to say something like junctioning, where you tie magic casts to stats, is anything other than a novel idea, would just be wrong.
It's not a novel idea, it's a shallow gimmick and the same exact shit they've been doing since FF5 too, but with something else as the *thing* you tie your (meaningless) stats to
>Hurr what if we tie stats growth to the job you equip and can switch them however you like?
>Hurr what if we tie stats growth to the Magicite you equip and can switch them however you like?
>Hurr what if we tie stats multipliers to the Magi...err Materia you equip and can switch them however you like?
>Hurr what if we tie stats multipliers to the...uhhh...get this: SPELLS you equip and can switch them however you like?
Also notice how in every single one of these games all of this ends up by making every character play the exact same on top of conflicting with the levels because of fricking course your stats aren't irrelevant enough, you gotta base most of your actual math on character levels as well.
None of this is innovative, it is also a very anti-roleplaying mindset as well because there's no actual decision making to be had when there's no real investment.
None of this fundamentally changes the fact that the games are cinematic button mashers either, you spam your strongest DPS in the same exact way in all of these games, FF8 is especially broken in that regard due to not only having limit breaks being horribly overpowered and without any sort of power gating, the junction tying your (already garbage) spells to your stats makes it so you're even less encouraged to do anything but mindless limit spam because your spells are your main stat multiplier and using them means you actively get weaker.
No, I'm talking about FF, but you're not ready for this conversation and most probably never will.
>you’re not ready for this conversation
Im not ready to read this wall of text. Jesus Christ. Talk about mental gymnastics. Everybody knows final fantasy has always deviated mechanically and stylistically from entry to entry. This has been the stated ethos of franchise since its inception. You can’t rewrite history just because you’re not a fan of the series, anon.
bro, you are absolutely seething about mechanics that you don't like. we get it, and that's ok. you don't have to like what the FF series does, and plenty of other people don't like it either.
but please explain how these are not innovative ideas. what other games did these same things and brought them mainstream?
What exactly is innovative about reclassing characters? It was something the first Wizardry game already had in 1980.
Is the "innovation" part making the reclassing feature absolutely devoid of any investment, which in turn makes the already poor character building completely irrelevant? That's simply poor game design, not innovation.
>what other games did these same things
I don't know, maybe Wizardry or Ultima, the games FF copied since the first game?
Or maybe Dragon Quest?
Don't you think it's weird that FF3 gave you the option to reclass characters right after DQ3 did it, which in itself was just copying Wizardry in the first place?
By the way, how do those things change the game design in those games? Because I'm fairly sure all of those games are the same exact linear cinematic adventures with instanced fights and story gated options where you mash your strongest DPS to win, I can give FF5 a small break because at least in that one you have a faint illusion that you're actually building different characters however you like, but it still doesn't change that the game is a linear cinematic adventure game rather than an actual RPG.
you're just going on about cinematic adventures and jobs. can you please address junctioning and materia not being innovative?
I already did, and I don't like to repeat myself.
Why don't you actually explain why they're supposedly innovative?
Like, at a basic game design level what innovation is there in something like Junction or Materia that make your game unlike everything else that came before it (if we pretend FF6, 5 and other older games didn't exist)?
How does this supposedly change the gameplay so much that makes it totally different from other slot systems that have been around since at the very least the gameboy?
Actually nevermind, most of this thread is just one very mentally ill person necrobumping and replying to himself like he's doing in other threads, I'm done here.
>Accuse other people of calling shitposters cultists...while accusing them of being cultists yourself
By the way, games like Langrisser already did complex route systems before SMT1 and did it better too, you're not fooling anyone.
>he doesn't know
My, my, what a surprise. Go back to the wikis anon, you failed to comprehend what you read
>Like, at a basic game design level what innovation is there in something
Gambits
a
m
b
i
t
s
(NTA)
The real fact of the matter is SE did innovate, but by and large the entire genre is far behind the capabilities of modern computing. DD2 and BG3 now are the top of realizing that potential. Thankfully it isn't just cutscenes and movies but interactive mechanics.
Watching multiple companies ruin their own legacy by sucking woke dick means I don't particularly want them to 'innovate' all the time either when often empty suits confuse 'filling the game with propaganda' and 'innovation'.
You are correct. New "marketed product" is the realization of potential. Interactive mechanics...true innovation. Gambits...pure innovation.
>DD2 and BG3 now are the top of realizing that potential
DD2 flopped
No, no anon. Press button to jump on enemy before pressing button to awesome is pure innovation.
Yeah crapcom has chosen the path of squareshit it seems.
What exactly was innovative about games like FF8?
It's an absolutely bog standard cinematic adventure game where you mash cinematic limits to move onto the next cutscene, surely you do not believe Junction was innovative, let alone good?
FF12 was an offline MMO with a terrible way to handle RTwP that was barely saved by an AI handling subsystem that already existed in games on the fricking PS1.
Those games didn't upset anyone but cultist morons with cognitive dissonance who think the franchise was every worth a damn, and well, in FF15 case people were upset by what an utter waste of time and everyone's money that was.
I think you’re confused and think we’re talking about dragon quest.
You are absolutely right, square ruined jrpgs with cuck fantasy 7 and all the moronic japanese devs that thought what rpgs needed was cutscenes
But that didn't affect wrpgs, in fact your precious bioware and obsidian ruined wrpgs, once about they went from turn BASED custom party blobbers to shitty isometric quirky plebbit character centric dating dims
You are the squaregay of the western world
>in fact your precious bioware and obsidian ruined wrpgs
Pretty sure that's what he was implying. (both bioware and Obsidian are dying now)
Yes, this is common knowledge.
It's called saturation and many large producers use it in many industries. You simply occupy all marketing spaces with your various offers until there is nothing else left. Slightly related to segmentation.
SQARC CNIX
Square Penis
>Is Square responsible for crippling the JRPG genre
Yes.
I honestly don't think it would be a big loss for jrpgs if square enix never existed. Like I wouldn't consider any square enix game a must-play.
No. The blame mostly falls on the mobile gaming industry, which SE is largely a part of.
Young Japanese devs that could have been focusing all their time and talent on making compelling console rpgs are instead funneled into the far more lucrative mobile market.
It's a gigantic shame the handheld market no longer exists or was folded into the mobile market. I don't think the Japanese ever acclimated to the HD era (I would argue no one really has, but that's beyond this conversation) and were better served with handheld budgets and scopes.
Closing in on 1 month with no officials announcement from Square on sales number for Rebirth.
1 month later and still no sales data lol.
>A whole month gone, and still no word.
>I'm certain it sold alright!
>Yeah! That old Square's no match for the AAA market!
>Anon, go to Japan and find Nomura.
>Great! I can't wait to fax some bomb threats!
People working at square enix now think everyone is a drooling moron that can't handle rpgs. So they made the drizzling shits that is ff16 which is a bad action game with tons of QTEs. If I wanted to play an action game I'd play something good like God of War not the great value version of it from square. Just go look at the interview they did with the ff16 team. These people are actual fricking morons. Square is no longer the RPG company. Dead and buried look elsewhere for RPGs.
>People working at square enix now think everyone is a drooling moron that can't handle rpgs.
They're right, tho. The average gamer is absolutely braindead and cannot retain a single piece of information for more than 45 seconds. Multiple pieces of information at once may as well be rocket science.
>They're right, tho.
I would say they are right in the context that they're making games exclusively for ff14 players, but if we look at the populace at large it seems that people aren't interested and their company's stock value is plummeting due to repeated failures.
>their company's stock value is plummeting due to repeated failures
That's putting it lightly.
only FF has suffered. all of the rest of squeenix' IPs are great.
They're all shit and have always been shit. The only good game they've ever made was Trigger.
Usual confimation that triggerBlack folk don't care or know shit about RPGs
And yet squamorons can't name anything their awful company has done for jrpgs.
I'm no squamoron, I only really care about SaGa when it comes tot that company, and maybe a couple of other minor games, you most certainly are a corporate slave though, most probably one of the falcomcucks who can't stop littering this board
FF1 was a fluke and everything afterwards was bathed in cope.
Idiotic take. Each iteration of the series outsold the previous once all the way thru X.
Why does SaGa make "JRPG fans" seethe so much?
>put dumb and gimmicky combat with a side of atrocious writing in a dollar store budget wrapper
>wow square said its for hardcore gaymers and my nitwit brain only knows squareslop so it must be 10/10
I'd only call one game in the series that had gimmicky combat. What are the gimmicks in the other games?
Typical saga gimmicks include
>Level Scaling
>Random Stat Gains
>Random Ability Gains
>Random everything so you have almost no control over character growth
>Not explaining where to go on your linear quest and calling it nonlinear
>"Choices" which generally effect whether or not you will obtain 1 of several hundred generic party members who's stats and abilities are randomly determined anyways
>adding mini games that are more complex than the actual gameplay in the games, but also simultaneously tedious and useless
Impressive how you manage to be wrong on every single one of your points.
And yet you can even make a counter argument. Curious.
Still haven't even answered my question. What was the gimmicky combat?
I'm not even the same person.
And? You replied to my post, and it was unrelated to what I was asking for.
Why should I care about what you are asking for?
lmao kawazu buckbroke this homosexual, you love to see it
Because these dollar store "fans" are actually cut from the same cloth as FF fans, only they seethe impotently because all of their dead and irrelevant games lost the race to get the same casual audience FF had an iron grip on, so they nurture an irrational hatred for their own kind and anything that has the Square label on, because they can't shake off that inferiority complex.
SaGa being the most blatant example that disrupts their narrative makes them seethe even harder, especially now that the series is on the rise, but it has always been like that really, you could already see the same exact shitposts before /jrpgg/ was even a thing.
SE is a powerful force "downwards"
Luckily, the intelligent and sensible minority follow the ascending force that is Falcom.
JRPGs are diverging along these two paths, as all things diverge. One day it will be enough to define two genres instead of one, but that day is not here yet.
>Is Square responsible for crippling the JRPG genre?
Final fantasy is certainly responsible for people not using battle systems fully, make games feel worse than they are.
The failure of square enix is the same trap most corporations fall into, "infinite growth" and always appealing to younger audiences
The original fans of SE games are all millennials and gen xers, you are just shooting yourself in the foot alienating all of that market share by making a game nobody want for a sliver of a chance to a younger audience who doesn't care about it
Jrpgs will be fine because they have always appealed to it's certain audience. Games like unicorn overlord (vanillaware), soulsborne games, smt series will continue selling well and doing well because they change very little of what people enjoy about them.
You have to build on design. You can't just keep trying to appeal to the latest audience or making the same game over and over to appeal to an old one. The idea is to build up talent in your company, which in turn enables you to make better games, defining what the newer generations enjoy. Square Enix makes derivative games so they have no control over this, they must simply adopt what other companies have pioneered, and reach a bigger market by throwing more money at it. Similiarly, Atlus does the same thing but makes the same game over and over instead while upping graphical fidelity. Both companies are equally parasitic.
Even their old games were a bunch of stuff ripped from star wars, so its tapping into that whole easily manipulated crowd of funko pop collecting morons.
once you get the "every piece of media in existence is a ripoff of starwars" morons posting it's time to abandon thread, if that wasn't already clear lmao
Yeah no, every piece of media isn't paladins versus dark knights lmao
Look at this sick and creative writing.
You don't understand. Final Fantasy games are meticulously well written masterpieces.
This is actually true. There are story moments in games like FF6 that move people to tears, which is an incredible feat for a 16bit presentation. To me the Edgar and Sabin coin toss scene, the opera house scene and Celes’s suicide attempt among many other scenes are a testament to squares undeniable innovation. They created art that makes people feel and characters that still live on in peoples minds almost 30 years later.
The virgin Square
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The chad Sega
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Amazing bread.
Comparing a 30 year old game made on fourth generation hardware to a modern triple A title that came out in the last few years…do I even have to explain why this is moronic?
>SE-cultist describes himself as "not a corporate drone"
>attacks random corporations randomly once a positive example is brought up from them
If I mention SMT's tremendous innovation in Japanese media regarding "paths"...will I suddenly become an Atlus-gay? Perhaps even a Persona-gay?
Yes!!!
I've started noticing lately that square enix fans are only concerned with a very small and focused collective of games and little else, and for no other reason than because its what they were told to like by internet algorithms.
Yes, this is the power of positioning. Marketing works, and SE is good at the most important parts of it (they are very bad at advertising however, which is funny.)
Did it occur to you that square games stand out because their contents resonate with a large number of players? Nah, that would be crazy huh? It must be the algorithm, which we all know is designed to show people things that aren’t good. At least you and I in the know about the GOOD games like “lunar”….and uhhh *reads note card* “socerian”…
>their contents resonate with a large number of players
Resonate how? What part of FF is relatable?
Almost every mainline title centers around a rag tag group of characters with distinct personalities and relatable human struggles.
They literally don't though, they're the exact opposite of that.
In what ways and why?
The impetus isn't on me to prove otherwise. You made the assertion. None of the characters are relatable. Square Enix is really bad at writing so they use a trick where they make the character super gloomy so they're basically a negative vacuum to be filled with positive character growth.
Alright man, it’s blatantly obvious you’ve never played any of the games. I hope you’re trolling and aren’t actually that delusional.
The only final fantasy games from 7 onwards where the protag isn't a gloomy butthole with ptsd is 9 and 10 where the protags are just morons instead. Why bother replying if you have no argument?
meant for
>You made
Wrong. Just an curious bystander. Queer.
Someone didn't get any head tonight.
frick SaGaBlack folk
No.
Sony & Innovation were.
The only thing we needed after the SNES were slightly bigger cartridges for more sprites and a few soundchip innovations, maybe an FM synth.
Don't worry though, because as much as Sony & innovation "crippled" it, Square saved it with XI.
>The only thing we needed after the SNES were slightly bigger cartridges for more sprites and a few soundchip innovations, maybe an FM synth.
You'll notice here the square tard doesn't list anything that has to do with gameplay at all.
CO FRICKING REKT BUDDY
I wouldn´t say so. I can´t say i agree with the direction they took for FF as i believe it doesn´t really suit the IP but KH was always kind of like it is now except the story was less convoluted and it had better movies to work with before Disney became lame.
True enough FF can no longer be considered JRPGs but KH and Nier never were RPGs to begin with. They were never under any obligation to stay traditional; Experimenting and making something new is exactly what new IP are meant to be for. The fanbase never feels betrayed because the games were never anything else. One may not like what those games are but tha´s besides the point. Not every game is for everyone.
It´s a different thing for established IPs since those are bounded by expectations. In that sense DQ XI was great and remained true to it´s identity.
>In that sense DQ XI was great and remained true to it´s identity.
The demoted the creator of the series and he works on low budget spin offs now.
Wow. SE suits really do have shits for brain. Still i wouldn´t say the decline of JRPGs is exclusively their fault. People consume what they put out there after all.
Yes. Next question.
No Square Enix fan can defend their games. Its a cult.
Is this some sort of schizo thread about some fatlus troony Buckbroken that their shitty visual novel can't beat ff?
Face it Black person, ff will always be the king of RPGs. Remake and Rebirth shit on other lesser franchises alone. It has far more innovation than other garbage. The only fricking jrpg with ambition.
Really bad reading comprehension.
when you only focus on their garbage output, it's easy to think that
too bad there's much more to squeenix than those 4 dogshits, 1 of which isn't even squeenix, just published by them, also enix never developed a single game in their lives, only published them, one of which is the absolute seminal progenitor of the jrpg genre (deagon quest, which was developed by CHUNSOFT) and other which are pinnacles of the action jrpg genre (soul blazer trilogy developed by QUINTET which were EX FALCOM employees who also made the innovative as frick slapstik/robotrek) but square is so much more than just final fantasyslop, they made front mission sfc, they made the entirety of the saga series, they made fricking rudra no hihou, they made fricking dewprism/threada of fate, they made fricking XENOGEARS (granted its development was kneecapped by finalsloptasy 7)
the point is op, that you are a moronic homosexual who knows nothing about square and even less about enix AND EVEN LESS THAN NOTHING about jrpgs and are just a homosexual assed moronic Gankeredditor Gankerigger zoomer who needs to frick off
Ayyyy, I made this chart after 130 hours of sleep deprivation and I think it kinda links even if it a failed shitpost from a deranged necroid that I didn't post.
It was made seconds after the usual Y NO NIER AUTOMATA SEQUEL SQUARE WHAT SAAITO DOING WHAT TARO DO posts.
That didn't recognise that y'know, Saito's a real producer and has been for Enix for years and followed the very pattern you spoke of. I'm so tired of Automata secondary & tertiaries.
all those "enix staff" and "dragon quest team" entries are literally just publisher credits, all they mean is he's a gay at enix who said "ok we will publish this" while sitting around with his thumb up his ass doing frick all, treasure is who made mischief makers, produce is who developed elnard 2 aka mystic arc, some literal who's called j-force is who developed burning heroes, star ocean is tri ace or some shit, i forget who actually developed bust a groove but enix just published it, enix literally not even once never developed a game in their lives, all they have ever been is a publisher, finding games that lone japanese otaku neet freaks would submit to them and picking the best ones to publish not unlike how falcom started out, or they would commission a real developer to make a game and pay for other external talent to help produce it (such as hiring akira toriyama to do the art for dragon quest, or koichi sugiyama to do the music for dragon quest or 48 billion year story aka the original pc version of E.V.O.), the rest on that list is either obviously square developed after the merger, or eidos developed after being bought out by squeenix, and nier and drakengard are still very obviously yoko taro joints
Anyone remember this
I don’t, but I’d also stopped playing their games almost two decades before that, so.
What did they mean by this?
Holy frick.
>Some leftoid hipster intern got free reign to run the twitter that day because in Japan they can't recognize a black deadbeat thief that left his daughter on her own to go get killed via drug overdose while robbing a c-store
Who cares, all people I respect less than localizers which is a pretty low bar in the first place.
>Some leftoid hipster intern got free reign to run the twitter that day
They donated a quarter of a million dollars to a black supremacist terrorist group. I'm not sure what kind of weird cope this is. In fact, I can't think of a single other jrpg company that did anything like this. $250,000. What the frick?
Is this what I'm paying for when I buy Square Enix games?
Yes, this is why you need to spend $80 for 1/4 of a movie game and $30 for a shitty mobile game. To fund Black person parades. Enjoy.
>To fund buying the leadership mansions in California
Fixed that for you
>$30 for a shitty mobile game
Actually, their latest one is $50 now.
>$50 for a phone game
I feel like the general population is getting dumber and dumber to the point where there's a clear divide between people who consume content from companies like square and actual humans.
Stuff like this is amazing to me because square enix fans are the type to always be the first to shit up other threads on games for being woke. You see the same thing with bethesda gays. But I guess it's okay when a giant soulless corporation does it. I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for these people at all.
Square Enix keeps winning.
Is that a lesbian chocobo?
What a shit company.
No one can ruin a genre other than the top dogs, so your question is kind of redundant. You can't certainly go around and claim some niche title ruined a genre, can you?
>so your question is kind of redundant
How so, sports fan?
>Square
>JRPG genre?
They only make mediocre action games now bro
>refusal to innovate
If anything innovation is what killed their biggest IPs. Look at what happens when they release DQ12 and tell me i'm wrong.
how? especially when the current GOTY is one of their games
What are your thoughts on BBC
FFXIV ruined them beyond recovery. And whats worse Square scoops up talented devs from other companies and dumps them on the mmo team to rot.
tfw I only play SE games
If you don't like SE, then you don't like JRPGs
Square enix made ffx? Cause that was the last real rpg ever made. Im still waiting for another turn based final fantasy. This reminds me of that meme about millions dying before hl3 is released
If your definition of another turn based FF is 1-3 before ATB took over then yeah, I see, that's tough.
After X? Mix of ATB, turn based or job systems?
XI, XII, 4WoL all count as would worlo.
For side mentions: X-2 also took a small step back into the traditional arena trying to revive the job system and Bravely Default was born out of 4WoL.
And all of them are good games and more deserving of your time than replaying VI or VII again.
You might be looking for mainline, have a complaint about muh MMO in the case of XI or seethe about Ivalice though in which case you're terminal.
>the most highly recommended SE game is either MMO(old) or MMO(new)
Grim.
Hey now, I also recommend V & II alongside XI for obvious reasons but that also triggers autists who grew up with a particular game and have never let that go.
I'm not sure your opinion is worth anything if you're playing ff14.
All current year Square fans play the mmo.
I tried the Second Story R demo and it was pretty boring. I also don't know why they keep doing the 2.5d thing, it looks hideous. There's going to be this enormous forgettable time period where every jrpg just looks absolutely disgusting, there is no way people are going to look back fondly on this aesthetic.