Is it weird that I'm kinda jealous of that guy in pic? Like imagine being able to just lay back and do whatever pointless shit you want in the middle of nowhere without having to worry about school, grades, money or a job.
>Like imagine being able to just lay back and do whatever pointless shit you want in the middle of nowhere without having to worry about school, grades, money or a job.
Considering he's in high school or college, he does have to worry about those things.
Sure thing there shitavius, you realize walking over to his place is thousands of trips to the fridge right?
You sure your case worker will give you a day pass?
The bad thing about orc women is that there's only one way to do them that is worth a shit, which is snu-snu barbarians. After a while it gets boring and once the novelty wears off you realize you're married to a mannish, stinking savage that will give you 8INT half-orc children who'll never amount to anything.
They're a downgrade from Drow women in every way. Well except your kids will be angsty little manlets and she'll probably cheat somewhere down the line.
Frick it, just marry a dragonborn.
Dragonborn don't have nipples for tweaking but still have breasts.
No. They are freaks. They are obviously just troony lizardmen with bolt on breasts hoping we won't catch the cloaca is occupied instead of vacant.
Real men go for a Sphinx.
They're not lizardmen in the first place. They're humans changed by dragon gods to serve as shock troops. And despite Draconic appearance, they're still mammals.
Dragonborn don't have nipples for tweaking but still have breasts.
No. They are freaks. They are obviously just troony lizardmen with bolt on breasts hoping we won't catch the cloaca is occupied instead of vacant.
Real men go for a Sphinx.
You're both normie as frick. I only go after adult aged human women who are prime mother material for our future family of 2.5 kids.
Is there any setting where Orcs are the good guys?
TES Orcs are genuinely good people with odd religious beliefs that require them to either be warriors or literal incels and a mostly justified siege mentality towards outsiders. They spent most of the elder scrolls games just trying to survive before joining the Empire and serving it loyally even in its decline.
I guess they're not exactly orcs, but the Trollkin in the Iron Kingdoms setting basically just want to be left alone after all the nations keep trying to have war with each other on their ancestral lands.
They're not all perfectly good, but many of them banded together in the face of this issue, including the criminals and outlaws.
In the Elfes series orcs are the token noble savages/anti heroes race. They can be pretty evil but the threat levels of the setting are so completely wack and the hearts of elves (and men) so easily corrupted they're usually the lesser evil. 4th volume starts with a whole backstory for one of the wood elf MCs that was raised by orcs, it gets posted pretty frequently.
I think it kinda starts suffering from having such a huge ensemble cast and the constant power level upping can be a bit annoying but it's still a great series, I basically read it from start to the most recent volume in a day when I first found it. I will say the half-elf apartheid storyline is the most boring and the dark elf/dwarf storyline the most fun.
>Is there any setting where Orcs are the good guys?
Elder Scrolls, Malacath got fricked over by Boethiah and is still bitter about it but she's a b***h who fricks over everyone. He's got some of the better daedric artifact questlines and orcs are like, not even top 20 on the list of fricking annoying buttholes in tamriel (the overwhelming majority of which are fricking elves)
Is there any setting where Orcs are the good guys?
Splint is (kind of) doubly subversive because it actually tries to stick to a reasonable interpretation of events and Rukhash just can't be trusted to keep a reign on her emotions if even slightly provoked. A great story and definitely the best orc/human romance I've read, it's shame it petered out but it was basically done with the main plot and unclear where it could go next.
Yes, In Tolkien.
Morgoth tormented and twisted the ancestors of orcs, possibly Elves or Men, into the shape of the orcs, until wickedness was all they knew-and yet, not all they could know. The orcs that serve the Dark Power do so primarily out of fear.
When pressed on this, Tolkien said that there must be some good orcs somewhere in Middle-earth, we simply not see any of them in the books.
Personal theory: Perhaps they fled so far away from the power that they fear, that they did not hear of its return.
Got a source? Reads like Jackson edgelord shit, no offense
In any case whether or not Tolkien wrote something about that, the orcs had little more than what boiled down to minor squabbles with the dwarves in the time between the Battle of the Powers and when Melkor reappeared with the Silmarils, so the influence of the Dark Power is what caused them to engage in evil deeds beyond the banal. Even when Sauron was hidden the orca were keeping to themselves. Even the whole situation in The Hobbit was really just a series of misunderstandings mixed with the HGIC (Head Goblin in Charge) holding an ancient grudge against Thorin.
Isn't that all easily explained by Tolkien orcs being cowards? Of course they're "nice" enough on their own, they're too afraid to act with out someone more powerful backing them up. Sauron doesn't push/force orcs towards evil so much as give them the means to act on their impulses with impunity.
From what I understand Orc culture is so brutal that any good-natured Orc is either soon corrupted or killed by their more vicious kin.
Got a source? Reads like Jackson edgelord shit, no offense
In any case whether or not Tolkien wrote something about that, the orcs had little more than what boiled down to minor squabbles with the dwarves in the time between the Battle of the Powers and when Melkor reappeared with the Silmarils, so the influence of the Dark Power is what caused them to engage in evil deeds beyond the banal. Even when Sauron was hidden the orca were keeping to themselves. Even the whole situation in The Hobbit was really just a series of misunderstandings mixed with the HGIC (Head Goblin in Charge) holding an ancient grudge against Thorin.
Orcs left to their own divices should not form an idyllic society, that would undermine everything Tolkien ever wrote about their basic nature and proclivities, but it would be totally appropriate and tolkienesque to have some not-entire-ignoble-savage orcs living on the corner of the map somewhere. Once in a while a press-gang of mordor orcs will pass through and the feral orcs all just hide. Some of those feral orcs would actually be good people if you got to know them.
That sounds about right for how it should probably play out but I do think you're focusing on the trees instead of the forest a bit.
The orcs are still Ilúvatar's children.
>The orcs are still Ilúvatar's children.
And yet, most of them never have the slightest chance to be good (in this life), from our point of view it seems that Iluvatar's world was unfair to them. This problem sits at the heart of Tolkien's moral thinking and it doesn't really have a solution. Iluvatar tells us that we don't have the whole picture, and that it will all make sense in hindsight. Manwe best understands Iluvatar's will, and he seems to think that it's right and proper for mortals to struggle against Sauron/Morgoth, to some extent at least.
In any case, I think it's a stretch to say that Tolkien's orcs are good, it's more "they're thinking creatures so they have the potential to be good" which is true for a lot of evil races in a lot of settings. But yes, tolkien did intent for their to be good orcs, he just didn't get around to telling that story in detail.
I'm not sure why everybody on /tg/ whines about subverting expectations these days. Is it because of that RLM review of the second Star Wars sequel films? I agree that the film sucked but I have no idea why people have suddenly decided that a story that isn't exactly what you think it should be is an evil liberal trick designed to make you into a gay communist.
Because it's tired and pointless by now. >achually, in my settings the orcs are the "good guys" and the elves are the "baddies!!11
Also the whole point of having common tropes is that it's a shorthand for your story, not having to explain to everyone that the 'dwarves' in your setting are 7 foot squidbeasts worshipping the great starfish in the sky, yet they're still called 'dwarves'
>Because it's tired and pointless by now.
No it isn't. You are a smoothbrain .
>Also the whole point of having common tropes is that it's a shorthand for your story,
The whole point is that other people have used the same shorthand in slightly-different ways. their stories influence the way that yours will be received, and your stories influence the way that theirs will be seen, that's the point of a shared mythology. It's not about mindless repetition, it's about iteration, each generation of generic fantasy responds to the one before, and each generation makes the mythology richer.
but the "baddies are actually goodies" trope always seems to attract the worst sorts of contrarians, white knights, and SJWs who enjoy subverting expectations to make other people's PCs look bad by feeding players inaccurate information about the setting
Yes, because these stories have always been about good and evil, and in the real world the people in the best position to frame themselves as good aren't always the best people. I can see why that concept might upset you, but this is all normal and healthy, this is what fiction is for.
>No it isn't. You are a smoothbrain .
NTA, it really fricking is, to the point that playing the trope straight is more subversive than adding your own "spin". Especially with elves and orcs, the default assumption is now "ok... what is this dude's take on them and how will their conflict be the elves' fault this time?" as opposed to "Cool this setting has those things!"
There are people in every generation making the same complaints. Usually people who lack imagination, but not always, it's part of the natural back-and-forth that we use to construct culture.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>deconstructionists >constructing anything, much less culture
Lol
the actual quote "subverting expectations" is a dumb star wars meme, but there is a recent practice of subverting expectations in a way that does not actually add any depth or meaning to the narrative, and removes much of the point of the original. it's not even a gay communist thing all the time; you see it a lot on lazy "creative writing" internet spaces where people think "trope, but the opposite" counts as a novel idea.
orcs are ugly and scary, and the audience will probably assume ugly, scary things are bad. princesses are beautiful and innocent, and the audience will probably assume the beautiful, innocent thing is good. simply doing the opposite with no additional depth is effectively a writing mistake - the audience feels like the details are pointless or arbitrary.
>a recent practice of subverting expectations in a way that does not actually add any depth or meaning to the narrative, and removes much of the point of the original.
it must be hard for you to use an imageboard when you can't keep more than 6 words in memory
it's mostly morons who heard others complaining about subverting expectations but not understanding what the criticism meant so they just took it at face value. So anytime anything does something "subversive" it's le bad.
i saw this phenomenon in action in smash bros, when they added via dlc a girl woth a sword and morons lost their collective shit over "another swordfighter". People memed swordfighters, but it was squarely a criticism against the over abundance of fire emblem characters where half of them had very similar kits, not a criticism of swords in general.
and yet these morons saw "sword" and thought it was bad because "i heard it was supposed to be bad"
>No matter how he is slain or contained, the Dark Lord returns to lay siege to each generation anew >among his powers, he can pour vitriol into the mind of any orc, extinguishing any good and creating a reflection of his own sadistic will >the orcs are perfectly aware of this, and are rightfully horrified by the prospect of this nightmarish conscription >Orcs therefore frequently offer their patronage to anyone who pledges to fight against the Dark Lord and his forces
They did an amazing job of giving the Trolls a believable culture, a peculiar dialect, without making them into complete dumbass.
Sneaking in very logical explanation for their shortcoming was genius as well.
Kinda hard to have a large population when your species are already giants, and without that you don't have the manpower to create universities.
Same series that had an interesting take on Orcs who live by the way of "the struggle" to explain their warring self-destructive nature despite being better endowed.
Might and Magic 5 universe. Shit as it may be because DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS the orcs were interesting because they are shock troopers made by wizards using demon blood that rebelled. They didn't then go on a blood curdling rage rampage, they settled in their own little region after saving all the orcs they could, and became the guardians of an artifact that could be used to release Satan. Aggressively territorial, they are objectively the only race in the setting that didn't advance the demons' plans to conquer the world.
In Sovereign Stone the Orcs are just one of the 4 main races; not necessarily good, or bad, but perfectly capable of being heroes. They aren't by default a race to be murdered for xp. Sadly nobody remembers that setting anymore.
Any setting where an 'entire mortal species' is bad/good, is an idiotic setting. Demons entirely being evil, angels entirely being good, and Black folks being entirely criminal are things that make sense.
unknown armies
Eberron.
No, you weird xenophilic subversive little homosexual.
UR BLAAAAAAAAAAACK
MY SETTING
>No, you weird xenophilic subversive little homosexual.
Is it weird that I'm kinda jealous of that guy in pic? Like imagine being able to just lay back and do whatever pointless shit you want in the middle of nowhere without having to worry about school, grades, money or a job.
>Like imagine being able to just lay back and do whatever pointless shit you want in the middle of nowhere without having to worry about school, grades, money or a job.
Considering he's in high school or college, he does have to worry about those things.
If you're in high school you absolutely need to worry about attendance and grades. What do you mean?
?
I’ll subvert my boot into your ass. You should want more people on the side of good, not less.
Sure thing there shitavius, you realize walking over to his place is thousands of trips to the fridge right?
You sure your case worker will give you a day pass?
The bad thing about orc women is that there's only one way to do them that is worth a shit, which is snu-snu barbarians. After a while it gets boring and once the novelty wears off you realize you're married to a mannish, stinking savage that will give you 8INT half-orc children who'll never amount to anything.
They're a downgrade from Drow women in every way. Well except your kids will be angsty little manlets and she'll probably cheat somewhere down the line.
Frick it, just marry a dragonborn.
Dragonborn don't have nipples for tweaking but still have breasts.
No. They are freaks. They are obviously just troony lizardmen with bolt on breasts hoping we won't catch the cloaca is occupied instead of vacant.
Real men go for a Sphinx.
They're not lizardmen in the first place. They're humans changed by dragon gods to serve as shock troops. And despite Draconic appearance, they're still mammals.
Yeah that's bad lore sorry
That's the best lore
Listen up, buddy-
>Real men go for a Sphinx.
...Okay you're right.
You're both normie as frick. I only go after adult aged human women who are prime mother material for our future family of 2.5 kids.
Elder Scrolls
TES Orcs are genuinely good people with odd religious beliefs that require them to either be warriors or literal incels and a mostly justified siege mentality towards outsiders. They spent most of the elder scrolls games just trying to survive before joining the Empire and serving it loyally even in its decline.
Russia.
Orcs
Not even in real life.
Yours can be.
If you make it.
In your game you totally have.
Fricking moron.
Warcraft
TES
Warcraft 3
I guess they're not exactly orcs, but the Trollkin in the Iron Kingdoms setting basically just want to be left alone after all the nations keep trying to have war with each other on their ancestral lands.
They're not all perfectly good, but many of them banded together in the face of this issue, including the criminals and outlaws.
You consider the trolls the orc-analogue?
I've always assumed it was the farrow.
Warhammer.
Malazan? The Jaghut were mostly peaceful and intelligent people, but the rare dickish one became a huge problem for everyone.
>Is there any setting where Orcs are [not orcs]???
No.
40k
Yes, most of them. At this point, it'd be a bigger subversion to make orcs into chaotic evil murderhobos again.
Yes, in every published material in the current woke infested era.
>What if evil race but good
This is why we can't have nice things anymore
well, an evil race becoming a good race *is* a generally nice thing. You can still have guys that are bad on an individual basis
Snek wife
Why should an entire race be good or evil? That's a story a 5 year old would come up with
In the Elfes series orcs are the token noble savages/anti heroes race. They can be pretty evil but the threat levels of the setting are so completely wack and the hearts of elves (and men) so easily corrupted they're usually the lesser evil. 4th volume starts with a whole backstory for one of the wood elf MCs that was raised by orcs, it gets posted pretty frequently.
Frick it, storytime.
le innate motherly wisdom,,,
Hah you thought this was a going to be a comfy coming of age story?
Suddenly, horror! Zombies!
Last page of the strictly orc-elf adventures, not gonna post the rest of the zombie survival story, you can find it easily online.
hababoy, forgot the image.
I-is that a n-n-n-nipple?
MOOOOOODS
Got a link?
I can't believe the narrator mis-species-ed her like this!
This is some perfect simple comics for my hung over brain. Thanks anon.
I think it kinda starts suffering from having such a huge ensemble cast and the constant power level upping can be a bit annoying but it's still a great series, I basically read it from start to the most recent volume in a day when I first found it. I will say the half-elf apartheid storyline is the most boring and the dark elf/dwarf storyline the most fun.
>male orc and female elf
Dropped, never acknowledged ever again, left the thread and did not bump it.
Actually they have more of an estranged uncle and niece relationship where both are always two minutes from killing each other, if that helps.
lmao
No, don't do that, let him keep thinking that the israelites want to cuck him.
Any given setting written by Shabazik. Usually, elves, goblins and humans are massive dicks, but not always
>Is there any setting where Orcs are the good guys?
Elder Scrolls, Malacath got fricked over by Boethiah and is still bitter about it but she's a b***h who fricks over everyone. He's got some of the better daedric artifact questlines and orcs are like, not even top 20 on the list of fricking annoying buttholes in tamriel (the overwhelming majority of which are fricking elves)
They are elves in tes
>They are elves in tes
They're elves in lord of the rings too lmao that doesn't change anything
Imagine believing in orc cope fairy tales
They're literally overgrown mutant goblinkin
>what if the bad guys were... le good?
Insufferable trash.
Haha, you think there is some kind of dedicated que of characters, people and things which are inherently evil?
Everyone laugh at this fools shallow understanding of good literature! Hahahahaha!
>le orcs are good guys
>good literature
No, moron.
let me guess you also think real life has canonical lore for fantasy races instead of popular writers?
turbo Black person
>que
You can't even write, we wouldn't expect you to be able to read.
the quran
Orcs are evil by their nature
Leave the Enclave to me.
Meh, mating press but not that enthusiastic
World of Warcraft
The one you write.
Damn, I miss that fic so damn bad.
Splint is (kind of) doubly subversive because it actually tries to stick to a reasonable interpretation of events and Rukhash just can't be trusted to keep a reign on her emotions if even slightly provoked. A great story and definitely the best orc/human romance I've read, it's shame it petered out but it was basically done with the main plot and unclear where it could go next.
oh goody storytime!
Yes, In Tolkien.
Morgoth tormented and twisted the ancestors of orcs, possibly Elves or Men, into the shape of the orcs, until wickedness was all they knew-and yet, not all they could know. The orcs that serve the Dark Power do so primarily out of fear.
When pressed on this, Tolkien said that there must be some good orcs somewhere in Middle-earth, we simply not see any of them in the books.
Personal theory: Perhaps they fled so far away from the power that they fear, that they did not hear of its return.
From what I understand Orc culture is so brutal that any good-natured Orc is either soon corrupted or killed by their more vicious kin.
Got a source? Reads like Jackson edgelord shit, no offense
In any case whether or not Tolkien wrote something about that, the orcs had little more than what boiled down to minor squabbles with the dwarves in the time between the Battle of the Powers and when Melkor reappeared with the Silmarils, so the influence of the Dark Power is what caused them to engage in evil deeds beyond the banal. Even when Sauron was hidden the orca were keeping to themselves. Even the whole situation in The Hobbit was really just a series of misunderstandings mixed with the HGIC (Head Goblin in Charge) holding an ancient grudge against Thorin.
>orca
I hate you too phone
Isn't that all easily explained by Tolkien orcs being cowards? Of course they're "nice" enough on their own, they're too afraid to act with out someone more powerful backing them up. Sauron doesn't push/force orcs towards evil so much as give them the means to act on their impulses with impunity.
Orcs left to their own divices should not form an idyllic society, that would undermine everything Tolkien ever wrote about their basic nature and proclivities, but it would be totally appropriate and tolkienesque to have some not-entire-ignoble-savage orcs living on the corner of the map somewhere. Once in a while a press-gang of mordor orcs will pass through and the feral orcs all just hide. Some of those feral orcs would actually be good people if you got to know them.
That sounds about right for how it should probably play out but I do think you're focusing on the trees instead of the forest a bit.
The orcs are still Ilúvatar's children.
>The orcs are still Ilúvatar's children.
And yet, most of them never have the slightest chance to be good (in this life), from our point of view it seems that Iluvatar's world was unfair to them. This problem sits at the heart of Tolkien's moral thinking and it doesn't really have a solution. Iluvatar tells us that we don't have the whole picture, and that it will all make sense in hindsight. Manwe best understands Iluvatar's will, and he seems to think that it's right and proper for mortals to struggle against Sauron/Morgoth, to some extent at least.
In any case, I think it's a stretch to say that Tolkien's orcs are good, it's more "they're thinking creatures so they have the potential to be good" which is true for a lot of evil races in a lot of settings. But yes, tolkien did intent for their to be good orcs, he just didn't get around to telling that story in detail.
If there are no expectations to subvert, how can a liberal write a story?
I'm not sure why everybody on /tg/ whines about subverting expectations these days. Is it because of that RLM review of the second Star Wars sequel films? I agree that the film sucked but I have no idea why people have suddenly decided that a story that isn't exactly what you think it should be is an evil liberal trick designed to make you into a gay communist.
Because it's tired and pointless by now.
>achually, in my settings the orcs are the "good guys" and the elves are the "baddies!!11
Also the whole point of having common tropes is that it's a shorthand for your story, not having to explain to everyone that the 'dwarves' in your setting are 7 foot squidbeasts worshipping the great starfish in the sky, yet they're still called 'dwarves'
>Because it's tired and pointless by now.
No it isn't. You are a smoothbrain .
>Also the whole point of having common tropes is that it's a shorthand for your story,
The whole point is that other people have used the same shorthand in slightly-different ways. their stories influence the way that yours will be received, and your stories influence the way that theirs will be seen, that's the point of a shared mythology. It's not about mindless repetition, it's about iteration, each generation of generic fantasy responds to the one before, and each generation makes the mythology richer.
but the "baddies are actually goodies" trope always seems to attract the worst sorts of contrarians, white knights, and SJWs who enjoy subverting expectations to make other people's PCs look bad by feeding players inaccurate information about the setting
Yes, because these stories have always been about good and evil, and in the real world the people in the best position to frame themselves as good aren't always the best people. I can see why that concept might upset you, but this is all normal and healthy, this is what fiction is for.
>No it isn't. You are a smoothbrain .
NTA, it really fricking is, to the point that playing the trope straight is more subversive than adding your own "spin". Especially with elves and orcs, the default assumption is now "ok... what is this dude's take on them and how will their conflict be the elves' fault this time?" as opposed to "Cool this setting has those things!"
There are people in every generation making the same complaints. Usually people who lack imagination, but not always, it's part of the natural back-and-forth that we use to construct culture.
>deconstructionists
>constructing anything, much less culture
Lol
the actual quote "subverting expectations" is a dumb star wars meme, but there is a recent practice of subverting expectations in a way that does not actually add any depth or meaning to the narrative, and removes much of the point of the original. it's not even a gay communist thing all the time; you see it a lot on lazy "creative writing" internet spaces where people think "trope, but the opposite" counts as a novel idea.
orcs are ugly and scary, and the audience will probably assume ugly, scary things are bad. princesses are beautiful and innocent, and the audience will probably assume the beautiful, innocent thing is good. simply doing the opposite with no additional depth is effectively a writing mistake - the audience feels like the details are pointless or arbitrary.
>a recent practice of subverting expectations
>recent
No.
>a recent practice of subverting expectations in a way that does not actually add any depth or meaning to the narrative, and removes much of the point of the original.
it must be hard for you to use an imageboard when you can't keep more than 6 words in memory
moron.
Omg, this cat's face is just >:3, so cute!
it's mostly morons who heard others complaining about subverting expectations but not understanding what the criticism meant so they just took it at face value. So anytime anything does something "subversive" it's le bad.
i saw this phenomenon in action in smash bros, when they added via dlc a girl woth a sword and morons lost their collective shit over "another swordfighter". People memed swordfighters, but it was squarely a criticism against the over abundance of fire emblem characters where half of them had very similar kits, not a criticism of swords in general.
and yet these morons saw "sword" and thought it was bad because "i heard it was supposed to be bad"
>No matter how he is slain or contained, the Dark Lord returns to lay siege to each generation anew
>among his powers, he can pour vitriol into the mind of any orc, extinguishing any good and creating a reflection of his own sadistic will
>the orcs are perfectly aware of this, and are rightfully horrified by the prospect of this nightmarish conscription
>Orcs therefore frequently offer their patronage to anyone who pledges to fight against the Dark Lord and his forces
Spellforce 3 Fallen god.
for Trolls.
They did an amazing job of giving the Trolls a believable culture, a peculiar dialect, without making them into complete dumbass.
Sneaking in very logical explanation for their shortcoming was genius as well.
Kinda hard to have a large population when your species are already giants, and without that you don't have the manpower to create universities.
Same series that had an interesting take on Orcs who live by the way of "the struggle" to explain their warring self-destructive nature despite being better endowed.
Might and Magic 5 universe. Shit as it may be because DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS the orcs were interesting because they are shock troopers made by wizards using demon blood that rebelled. They didn't then go on a blood curdling rage rampage, they settled in their own little region after saving all the orcs they could, and became the guardians of an artifact that could be used to release Satan. Aggressively territorial, they are objectively the only race in the setting that didn't advance the demons' plans to conquer the world.
Disney's Gargoyle
Apparently a full head of hair makes hobgoblins/orcs good aligned.
True for humans too
In Sovereign Stone the Orcs are just one of the 4 main races; not necessarily good, or bad, but perfectly capable of being heroes. They aren't by default a race to be murdered for xp. Sadly nobody remembers that setting anymore.
Warhammer 40k
>T'*u are good
As good as the British East India Trading Company.
Wh40k
United States
Warhammer 40k
Any setting where an 'entire mortal species' is bad/good, is an idiotic setting. Demons entirely being evil, angels entirely being good, and Black folks being entirely criminal are things that make sense.
40k
nope
I can think of some were they are victims of various dark lords.
Warcraft has them overcome their dark nature and turn into noble savages
basically anyone if born orc
depends on what you think about the forgotten realms and the kingdom of many arrows....
Eberron