Doesn’t Chaos shit its pants at the approach of the Tyranids, since the hive mind kind of just blots out Chaos through the sheer psychic pressure of trillions of emotive beings all acting and feeling in unison?
Whatever, the point is that Chaos might still exist in some form under the Tyranids, but the Tyranids have such a unity of thought and purpose that their presence reshapes Chaos to suit them.
>Whatever
it's a slight but important difference: tyranids do not feel emotions in the same sense as other conscious beings, they do not shape the warp with their one conjoined collective soul, they just have so fricking many psychic communication lines and networks making up their hive mind that anyone who isn't accustomed or integrated into the network can only hear and see a cacophony of alien voices screeching at each other so loudly that nothing else can be heard
imagine having to recite a poem with someone screaming in your hear
imagine trying to have a phone call in the midst of a howling stadium
imagine trying to keep 4 spheres floating on water in a regular shape with someone creating waves on the water
that's what psykers trying to cast a spell, telepaths trying to communicate and daemons trying to remain in realspace, must confront with
Yes, but GW already ignored it
See, if you ought to believe the immense mass that is the tyranids according to GW descriptions and art, they would already be dead or at leasts selfcontained. After eating enve galaxies their own mass should had made them impossible to escape, the would form an immese planetoid with almost infinite mass and spaning distances of several galaxies
there's no description or art of their "mass"
we only know that they went through a dozen galaxies and their rough paths, which are not to scale for obvious reasons
it's unlikely that they eat every single planet with biomass in the galaxy they mow through and it's unlikely that the mass they pick up is so large to have significant gravitational pulls considering they make separate ships and separate fleets that travel at a distant from one another
not to mention the pseudoscientific bullshit they can pull off like literal and figurative wormholes and gravity manipulating narvhals which might be used to offset things in ways we can't know
>we only know that they went through a dozen galaxies
No we don't. Thats in-universe speculation. No one knows the full extent of the Hive Fleets, or how much of them is actually here. So far nothing has been confirmed about the nature and status of other galaxies in 40k.
>Thats in-universe speculation.
no, it's not, everything else is, not this bit
I too would prefer a different background, like that it's the first intergalactic jump they make or that they have scythed through this galaxy before in the past but this is what we have
How long until the hive mind becomes a character? I’d say it’s inevitable unfortunately. It could be done well if they make it incredibly alien and weird, but it would be hard to get right.
They tried to portray it as malicious and vengeful entity in some book..
9 months ago
Anonymous
The Leviathan one that Tigerus starred in. He said he realized it recognized and hated him. Before the Emperor saved him from the Hive Mind's personalized wrath.
9 months ago
Anonymous
The Leviathan one that Tigerus starred in. He said he realized it recognized and hated him. Before the Emperor saved him from the Hive Mind's personalized wrath.
The Devastation of Baal book also implies that the Hivemind hates the Blood Angels and has a personal grudge against them.
>The sages of the Imperium thought the hive mind a non-sentient intelligence....
>The Imperial scholars were wrong. The hive mind knew. The hive mind thought, it felt, it hated and it desired. Its emotions were unutterably alien, wienertails of feeling not even the subtle aeldari might decipher. Its emotions were oceans to the puddles of a man's feelings. They were inconceivable to humanity, for they were too big to perceive.
9 months ago
Anonymous
[...]
The Devastation of Baal book also implies that the Hivemind hates the Blood Angels and has a personal grudge against them.
>The sages of the Imperium thought the hive mind a non-sentient intelligence....
>The Imperial scholars were wrong. The hive mind knew. The hive mind thought, it felt, it hated and it desired. Its emotions were unutterably alien, wienertails of feeling not even the subtle aeldari might decipher. Its emotions were oceans to the puddles of a man's feelings. They were inconceivable to humanity, for they were too big to perceive.
>The hive mind looked out of its innumerable eyes towards the dull red star of Baal. It apprehended that this was the hive of the warriors that had hurt it so grievously, who had burned its feeding grounds and scattered its fleets. It hated the red prey, and it coveted them. Tasting their exotic genomes it had seen potential for new and terrible war beasts.
>And so it drew its plans, and it set in motion its trillion trillion bodies towards the consumption of the creatures in red metal, so that their secrets might be plundered, and reemployed in the sating of the hive mind's endless hunger. This was deliberate, considered, and done in malice. The hive mind was aware, and it desired vengeance.
>Nids lose to orks
How? The orks can’t win or lose against anyone, they like fighting so much they’ll fight eachother if the other factions get too weak. It’s a self regulating system where they can’t really win OR lose. >a future of endless war where no side can ever really win or lose
They’ve pretty much already met their win condition, and it’s not to eradicate or subdue the other factions.
>How?
You answered your own question. >a future of endless war where no side can ever really win or lose >They’ve pretty much already met their win condition
I don't think the nids would leave if some external force didn't compel them. If given free reign, they'd probably strip mine every single planet for mass and grow until they're using all available starlight in the galaxy.
>I don't think the nids would leave if some external force didn't compel them. If given free reign, they'd probably strip mine every single planet for mass and grow until they're using all available starlight in the galaxy.
Tyranids don't use starlight. What are you talking about? They are locusts that literally strip a planet of all biomass and move on. They don't form ecosystems on planets, they just consume and move on. Once a galaxy is void of all biomass, they move on to the next one.
"Tyranoforming" mutates/replaces native life (especially plants) on the planet with organisms that facilitate consumption in later stages. You're correct that they don't really use sunlight or otherwise farm biomass though.
Catachan is a tyranid world after a splinter fleet
Source?
There's a canon theory that various deadly creatures throughout the galaxy are actually nid organisms gone feral and evolving blindly. But even that theory doesn't claim Catachan is a tyranid world, only that the "Catachan devil" might be one of those leftovers. And it's not been confirmed.
Sorry to inform you (actually very happy) but Chaos already won. You can cope, seethe and gnash your teeth all you want but Chaos will consume the setting like it did Fantasy and Tyranids are nothing more than extra spice to make the rest of the meal more interesting.
If you don't like this then 40k is not for you and your missed status will be marked as NOT
Gav Thrope said even if this were the chaos, Chaos is inherently self-destructive. But it's already been confirmed it's the same warp across all the settings. Chaos is not dependent on 40k
That's because Fantasy canonically only existed until the Chaos Gods got bored with it and made it Age of Sigmar. I do not recall if I've ever read anything that said as much as 40k but 40k is just as doomed to Chaos in the long run. Also 40k also features a blurb of a single marine rallying an agriworld to repel a daemon invasion. So yeah, 40k is kinda scrub-tier regardless whether its destruction is the result of continuous effort or a Fantasy-style sudden boredom of the gods
Fantasy smacks Chaos around on the regular, sounds like 40k are just shitters.
Forgeworld's Machines of the Lost and the Damned said that daemons are more vulnerable to primitive, traditional weapons than they are to guns or chain or power weapons. It attributes this to greater traditional weight and meaning attached to them by humanity. E.g. the symbolism behind the sword makes it resonate in the warp more and therefore makes daemons more vulnerable to it. But considering that boltguns are consistently stated to be revered as symbols of the Emperor's might, I don't know how they reconcile that. Maybe they'd claim age as a factor, swords have been with us forever and accumulated that meaning where boltguns have not or something gay like that.
9 months ago
Anonymous
That's also been stated in one of the HH black book campaign books. The one with the Calth campaign. The Ultramarines realized that melee weapons were much better at killing daemons than guns
Fantasy smacks Chaos around on the regular, sounds like 40k are just shitters.
[...]
Forgeworld's Machines of the Lost and the Damned said that daemons are more vulnerable to primitive, traditional weapons than they are to guns or chain or power weapons. It attributes this to greater traditional weight and meaning attached to them by humanity. E.g. the symbolism behind the sword makes it resonate in the warp more and therefore makes daemons more vulnerable to it. But considering that boltguns are consistently stated to be revered as symbols of the Emperor's might, I don't know how they reconcile that. Maybe they'd claim age as a factor, swords have been with us forever and accumulated that meaning where boltguns have not or something gay like that.
Archaon dabbed on them, Settra, Sigmar dabbed on them. Slaanesh is a little b***h boy in Fantasy, if it is the same Chaos then it is unironically the case that Fantasy >>> it. People who try to claim "same Chaos" for real as a means of arguing that it isn't dependent or whatever don't realise what they're setting themselves up for.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Draigo showed up in End Times and the Liber Chaotica is quite explicit about it. I'm not sure there's much to argue about it being the same warp regardless of what it means for 40k power levels.
>chaos is not dependent on 40K
It kind of is though, or at least that version of chaos is dependent on 40K. Chaos WANTS more war and strife and misery, their goal wouldn’t even be to eradicate all life. They’re similar to orks in that they’ve basically already met their wincon, and can really only improve their position by say… having the human empire fall the same way the Eldar did (although it could be argued that already happened in the Horus Heresy)
>It kind of is though, or at least that version of chaos is dependent on 40K. Chaos WANTS more war and strife and misery, their goal wouldn’t even be to eradicate all life.
You are wrong. Chaos is entropy. Its goal is quite literally to eradicate all life and to increase the entropy of the universe until nothing resembling order or structure exists. Followers of Chaos, and the Chaos gods themselves, are just too stupid to understand this.
For Orks the end goal is to continue fighting eternally.
They absolutely do not want to eradicate human life. They want them to serve and worship. It can be in a form like the DEldar, who worship her indirectly, but absolutely not destroyed entirely.
You could make the argument chaos wants to control and change humans to the point they’re no longer humanity (see every chaos space marine) but that’s very different than total annihilation. The comparison to entropy is bizarre, because the realms of the chaos gods is very ordered, just not in the way a human would prefer (unless that human is an insane traitor).
What you’re saying doesn’t even remotely make sense for gods like Slaanesh or Tzeentch. Why would the god of excess want all the people to die?
What you’re doing is inferring that someone like the Nids want to wipe all life from the universe because they eat everything. They don’t, they want to grow, which requires things to eat, which requires that not everything be dead. There’s a big difference.
because in the grim darkness of the far future, your moms ass still smells so bad, its a galaxy wide bug spray.
Magnus and Lorgar are going to return and save the day by sacrificing themselves
squats are going to take massive losses and help bring the resurrection of the angel
[...]
Not only that, Nids have a lot of options Orks don't have. Like mutating to become far more poisonous or releasing poison gasses that would just keep instakilling orks that spawn. They can slowly turn the entire planet into toxic sludge and smog unlivable even to orks, then collect all the biomass once everything is dead and dissolved.
Hive fleets are simply far more capable of coordinating planetary assaults, they can attack in force when and where they want and cut their losses if necessary (assuming the fleet isn't pressed by starvation) and the hive mind is clearly capable of (and getting better at) strategy, ork waaaghs are fundamentally more chaotic and less coordinated, and warbosses are not quite superhuman strategists.
They're about as good at endlessly spawning combat-ready organisms, but it seems Tyranids have a clear edge overall.
>Chaos will consume the setting
That means it hasn't already won.
It might win in the future, but >Orkz have already won, and keep winning >War consumes the setting right fricking now, and that's what Orks crave >Along with some electrolytes
As others have said, they would could have a hard time with the Orks or Necrons.
I would also think the Emperor were somehow fully healed/awakened, he could probably mount a considerable resistance at worst, overwhelming at best.
40k does a good job of making tons of factions have viable "paths to victory".
Wouldn't Nids win the long game against Orkz since they'd ultimately mutate into the optimal Ork-killers? A stalemate between them would favor the Nids with every passing day.
Orkz are also reliant on more resources than the Nids so at some point all the Orkz will have left is dead Nids - who in turn would just evovle to liquify on death so that the Okrz would end up fighting more or less empty handed after centuries of attrition.
At least from my understanding of those two factions and races, the Nids would ultimately come out on top against the Okrz.
The Nids won Octarius, so yes that is likely. Ultimately they managed to evolve past the Ork roadblock and broke the back of the Ork armies there. Scattered fighting still continues elsewhere in the sector, and the Imperium managed to use Octarius to buy themselves enough time to stabilise their own battle lines in preparation for the next Nid push, but the Tyranids won.
>Nids lose to orks
How? The orks can’t win or lose against anyone, they like fighting so much they’ll fight eachother if the other factions get too weak. It’s a self regulating system where they can’t really win OR lose. >a future of endless war where no side can ever really win or lose
They’ve pretty much already met their win condition, and it’s not to eradicate or subdue the other factions.
Not only that, Nids have a lot of options Orks don't have. Like mutating to become far more poisonous or releasing poison gasses that would just keep instakilling orks that spawn. They can slowly turn the entire planet into toxic sludge and smog unlivable even to orks, then collect all the biomass once everything is dead and dissolved.
Hive fleets are simply far more capable of coordinating planetary assaults, they can attack in force when and where they want and cut their losses if necessary (assuming the fleet isn't pressed by starvation) and the hive mind is clearly capable of (and getting better at) strategy, ork waaaghs are fundamentally more chaotic and less coordinated, and warbosses are not quite superhuman strategists.
They're about as good at endlessly spawning combat-ready organisms, but it seems Tyranids have a clear edge overall.
The Nids won Octarius, so yes that is likely. Ultimately they managed to evolve past the Ork roadblock and broke the back of the Ork armies there. Scattered fighting still continues elsewhere in the sector, and the Imperium managed to use Octarius to buy themselves enough time to stabilise their own battle lines in preparation for the next Nid push, but the Tyranids won.
[...]
Not only that, Nids have a lot of options Orks don't have. Like mutating to become far more poisonous or releasing poison gasses that would just keep instakilling orks that spawn. They can slowly turn the entire planet into toxic sludge and smog unlivable even to orks, then collect all the biomass once everything is dead and dissolved.
Hive fleets are simply far more capable of coordinating planetary assaults, they can attack in force when and where they want and cut their losses if necessary (assuming the fleet isn't pressed by starvation) and the hive mind is clearly capable of (and getting better at) strategy, ork waaaghs are fundamentally more chaotic and less coordinated, and warbosses are not quite superhuman strategists.
They're about as good at endlessly spawning combat-ready organisms, but it seems Tyranids have a clear edge overall.
>Nids lose to orks
How? The orks can’t win or lose against anyone, they like fighting so much they’ll fight eachother if the other factions get too weak. It’s a self regulating system where they can’t really win OR lose. >a future of endless war where no side can ever really win or lose
They’ve pretty much already met their win condition, and it’s not to eradicate or subdue the other factions.
You guys are forgetting a few things.
1. Orks outnumber tyranids
2. Things like chemical weapons or tyranids evolving into perfect ork killers is not really possible as orks are the most adaptable species in the galaxy they grow stronger as they fight, on octarius the average ork was bigger than a space marine and orks are always inventing crazy new warmachines like deffkoptas, gorkanaughts, roks (entire asteroids retrofitted to be space stations), they have crazy amounts of teleportation technology that can teleport gargants (ork titans), shokk attack guns tellyporta guns, trakor beams, hell for gas weapons they can just make makeshift gasmasks assuming poison gas even works on them in the first place.
3. The Orks on Octarius came close to winning and are still fighting under a new leader and have only been pushed off planetside, this happened to the nids when Ghazkull showed up.
4. Ork warbosses get smarter as well as stronger unlike most orks which is how big waaagh!s like ghazkulls and wazdakkas gutsmeks get so big and when one dies usually his first nob will take his place, Orks like to infight and backstab but they like fighting other species more than killing eachother so orks would never resort to chopping eachother to death in a big fight like Octarius
Its big stalemate and tyranids being the vanguard of a bigger threat has never been really been confirmed. In anycase it wouldnt be easy for them
>so orks would never resort to chopping eachother to death in a big fight like Octarius
They are literally doing this right now, a bunch of different ork warlords are fighting over who gets to be boss while the Tyranids clean up.
>1. Orks outnumber tyranids
A problem that solves itself, and irrelevant as long as Orks stay divided. >Things like chemical weapons or tyranids evolving into perfect ork killers is not really possible
Absurd. >they get bigger
So what? The tyranids can apportion a larger ratio of biomass to large organisms too, if size even matters. >orks are always inventing crazy new warmachines
Tyranids are always inventing new biomorphs too. The orks' resourcefulness (combined with sheer numbers) barely allows them to fight the imperium to a standstill on several planets while Tyranids usually require Navy interventions, Exterminatus etc. >Ork warbosses get smarter
None can match the Hivemind in strategy. >tyranids being the vanguard of a bigger threat has never been really been confirmed
Cope. For that matter almost everything you've said about Orks "has never really been confirmed"
1. Orks literally outnumber anyone they fight and it does matter because tyranids aren't all in one place either
2. Yea literally impossible, if gas weapons was enough to kill Orks the imperium and death guard would just use that stuff nonstop on orks
3. you're just grasping at straws now, orks can build bigger and stronger tanks to match larger tyranid forms while each of them gets as strong as a space marine, meanwhile nids would have to spend more biomass to make stronger warriors instead of just naturally being stronger, not to mention nids can only recoup losses after a victory, they need more biomass to make stronger warriors while orks just get stronger from fighting
4. 2nd war for armageddon required several navy fleets, dozens of space marine chapters and who fricking knows how many guard regiments and they still barely won and now theres the 3rd war for Armageddon which is even bigger. Not to mention the emperor was almost slain by an Ork and Terra was directly sieged by Orks while almost every primarch was still around. and thats one of just a few Waaagh!s currently going on
5. Ghazkull gets visions from literal fricking gods and has outsmarted some of the imperiums top tacticians and pushed the nids shit in when he showed up at octarius. There are also like several top ork warbosses wrecking shit around the galaxy right now
6. It literally hasn't
Nidgays are always b***hing and so delusional whenever their gay faction isn't being wanked off every 2 seconds, you guys are worse than chaosgays
hes right about chemical bioweapons working. The only reason the imperium never uses them is because you would need to have poison that never harms friendlies and enough of it to gas the entire planet. Theres also the fact that the imperium fights orks with the intention of keeping the planet after and not have a giant shithole. Tyranids can just gas everyone and then slurp up the remains
You can take all that into account and it doesn’t change the fact Orks are essentially self limiting. They may get bursts of energy where they waaaargh out under a strong leader and grow and grow… but there’s always in-fighting or some upstart krumping the leader that will limit how far they can go. To really eradicate any faction they need an equal enemy that fights them on their terms. Octarius is a great example because they almost won, but when the tyranids started to engage in hit and run then hide tactics they were able to come back on them.
Orks will just never “win” entirely.. because to an Ork the fight ending is the worst loss there is.
Make the net biomass be negative and they frick off to another galaxy It's actually simpler then you think. 2 primary ways for imperium to do this,
Fortify worlds so tyranids to use more resources. Maybe also modify weapons to be more like necrons and how it leaves no biomass behind. (Tech priest are okay with modifying aslong as it's not just a pure improvement)
As soon as you start losing control of a planet to tyranids exterminatus the planet so it's a net negative for biomass. Store exterminatus on planets in hidden bunkers and trigger them maybe?
>exterminatus planets before nids eat them
As I remember this tactic actually made the INQUISITION turn on one of their own because it was too extreme. Also the nids boil down all bio mass on a planet including their own forces. It doesn't matter if it takes 100,000,000 troops to take a fortress of 10,000. At the end of the day the nids will slurp all the biomass on the planet and come out with 100,010,000 worth of biomass.
Weapons that render biomass unusable is a good idea but any type of viral agent will quickly be adapted to. So unless everyone swaps to guass tek not likely.
>exterminatus planets before nids eat them
As I remember this tactic actually made the INQUISITION turn on one of their own because it was too extreme. Also the nids boil down all bio mass on a planet including their own forces. It doesn't matter if it takes 100,000,000 troops to take a fortress of 10,000. At the end of the day the nids will slurp all the biomass on the planet and come out with 100,010,000 worth of biomass.
Weapons that render biomass unusable is a good idea but any type of viral agent will quickly be adapted to. So unless everyone swaps to guass tek not likely.
Another problem is what it means to make biomass unavailable. On iceballs or desert worlds or space stations the only available biomass is the humans exploiting and defending it, the tyranids invading and maybe orks. On Forge Worlds and Hive Worlds too, virtually all the biomass is contained in the hives. So in that case the strategy of fortifying the frick out of every settlement and making sure there are few or no corpses for the nids to pick works for starving them (or getting them to ignore the planet and move on.)
But in worlds with an actual biosphere, and especially those jungle planets like Catachan or agri-worlds, most of the biomass is out there for grabs and enemies are a rather insignificant fraction that must be defeated just so they can harvest the rest. So it doesn't matter if they lose 1 billion tyranids beating a 1 million garrison armed exclusively with gauss or volkite or whatever cheese weapon evaporates nids without a trace, they'll harvest the biomass for a hundred billion tyranids when they win. They don't even need to defeat the garrison really, just force them to hunker down in their little fortresses while they consume the rest of the planet and turn it into a Dead World.
Those are the worlds where only Exterminatus or similar methods would work at starving the nids.
What is "destroying the universe". We have seen planets with the biomass consumed by nids, and you know what? Necrons would be happy as clams there.
Do you just mean, whats to stop humans from being eaten by them? A few things, really. One, even if everything else went to shit, there are enough humans scattered everywhere that the tyranids couldn't (and won't) try to eat every little pocket of humans on every single moon, mining asteroid, and space ship. Its wildly inefficient, they would just look for areas with more densely packed biomass and a greater variety of DNA to sample and use. It will be much better to keep moving to another galaxy then to hunt down every single little scrap of meat in this one.
Second, if they come to terra and kill big E, he should respawn (and a new eye of terror should open up there). Either the emperor kills them off/drives them away, or a galaxy where chaos is the only choice for mankind has the chaos gods dunk on them.
The Tyranids will only win when GW decides it is no longer profitable to sell the overpriced figures of all the other races. It's a wargame setting you mong, the lore ony exists to promote sales.
It looks like a shitty tryhard overhaul of the classic box. The overdesigned, overcompensating Starkiller Base to the timeless clean elegance that is the Death Star
It's really ugly, on top of being larger than a frickin leviathan dreadnought. Same problem as the new nids, honestly. The emissary is just a hive tyrant but BIGGER, with no real design change from the older one other than more greebles all over.
what i hate is that this is the likely conclusion.
Oh please, Primarchs only come back when Failbaddon attempts something noteworthy again. We've got about 3/4ths of an edition to churn through before Chaos becomes mildly relevant and jobs another Primarch back into existence.
It would be interesting if a faction with heavy emphasis on robotics, say the Tau, the Mechanics or Necrons, just says frick it and unleashes bilions of self-replicating robots to stripmine planets to the core to face the Tyranids.
But...but wouldn't the nids still be getting biomass by eating the fleshy servitor bits
Wouldn't the nids just be able to keep recycling their dead without real cost to themselves
At this point Chaos already altered the reality so much it is pretty much toying with the galaxy before devouring it and turning it into perpetual hell. Nids cannot eat something that is that is made of darkness and fear.
>inb4 chaos will starve itself
No it will not, that was never canon. Chaos does not need worship to exist, it needs them to speed up the process, which it does not care about in the longshot. Turning the entire galaxy into a giant Eye of Terror is not a matter of if but when.
"Chaos needs worshipers" was always kind of a moot point, the cultists on Daemon worlds are still worshipers, the primitives on feral worlds who beg the Old Gods for the strength to survive some CSM warband's incursion are also worshipers, the beastmen who pray for victory against rival tribes are also worshipers and so on. Chaos could throw the entire galaxy into the warp or just remove any credible threat and claim the W.
You just know they will pull some big gambit out of their ass to kill the Hivemind itself.
And it'll be an "unlikely" alliance of Imperium and Eldar and Necrons or some such.
Like, block out the psychic connection of the 'nids with a a Eldar megadevice that just blanks out the whole galaxy or some shit, while you have the Necrons attack en-masse to sow chaos and the heroic Ultramarines and Blood Angels will deepstrike the Hivemind and all die but kill it, and the Hivefleets all lose cohesion and are easy prey.
There, I plotted out a trilogy of novels for you, GW.
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHAOS! Through Tyranid Eyes. See the reaction of the Hivemind to the birth of the Great Rift.
>Unclean energies spread through the sky, engulfing ships in writhing wreaths of hellish light. They burst and fell, burning with green flame. Reality quivered like a struck gong. All across the deserts of Baal, the tyranids stopped, and turned as one to face the heavens, their mouths open as wide as they would go.
>The awful shriek came from a billion alien throats.
>The hive mind was screaming.
------------------------------
>Screaming warp fire crashed against the gestalt soul of the tyranids, catching it unawares. The delicate synaptic web that bound its numberless minds into one being shrivelled like thread in a fire. Never before had the hive mind been so grievously wounded. Its control over its trillions of bodies was violently disrupted. Hive fleet was cleaved from hive fleet, brood from brood so catastrophically that for a moment the hive mind ceased to be. It recovered quickly, diminished but alive, but that moment seemed to the hive mind an eternity of darkness. Trillions of its creatures permanently lost touch with the hive mind, and were reduced to unthinking animals.
>For the first time in its existence, the hive mind tasted death.
>In the Baal system hundreds of thousands of tyranids died, their brain stems reduced to smoking mulch by psychic feedback. Aggressive void predators became drifting hulks in the space of an instant.
By 40k canon there is no time in the warp at all, so "dead for a moment" does not happen because the other timeless aspects of the hive mind still exist.
Nids are way too dumb and weak to be sonething other than hord of easy kills. Especially if their grimderp implications are true and the whole giant outer galaxy hive already starved to death, leaving this vanguard force with no back up
No one has really picked up just how huge they retcond the tyranid in the new book Leviathan. The hive mind, and shadow in the warp are a lot different. Basically, GW gave the nids the ability to disrupt cogitators, which is a huge deal, because almost everything in the imperium runs on them. But to balance out this GW also changed how synapse works...again. at least in the book, the nids are controlled by the hivemind via neurocyte that attaches to the larger bio forms. So, it seems like they are trying to give the nids a huge weakness. As the imperium, in theory could use a neurocyte network of their own to disrupt nid armies.
But I think this new dynamic flew over most people's head, so it'll probably get mothballed.
Yes, cogitators are commonly just mechanical computers, but the advanced ones are interlaced with human minds, like cawls computer on Gillimans ship, or in the novel the brain that is hooked into the data banks of the ship port, that the hive mind takes control of, and uses to figure out how to blow up the space port. People don't realize how huge this is, targeting systems, shields, everything is a series of cogitator and human brains. This is a fundamental flaw in the imperium and now that GW opened this can of worms, and at least hive fleet leviathan has figured out this flaw, the only limiting factor is how they want to use it in future battles. The imperium is fricked.
>the nids are controlled by the hivemind via neurocyte that attaches to the larger bio forms.
that's just the neurogaunts
On the tabletop, but in the novel, they are also attached to larger bio forms like the norm emissary. There is a huge plot point where the space marines hunt it, so they can have a chance at getting one of these nerocytes. The hive tyrants and larger forms of course still have control over the smaller bio forms, but GW is at least attempting to change it from warp frickery, to an actual network of smaller nodes. That's the whole point of the novel, if the imperium can create its own network of the nerocytes they can disrupt the tyranids. Which I'm fine with, because at least it's a more interesting dynamic then the war of attrition we have been getting.
>at least attempting to change it from warp frickery
I mean, what's the difference between a psychic synaptic network kept up by the brains of tyranid creatures themselves and a psychic synaptic network kept up by the brains of tyranid creatures with the help of an embedded biomorph?
GW wrote themselves into a corner. In an earlier novel, when Leviathan was detected it was estimated that the Imperium would need to muster every single able bodied person in segmentum Pacifica and Solar to stop it. Obviously not possible, so I think they had to add a flaw that could be exploited by the Imperium to stop the nids. It just gives them a weakness.
But the Hive mind can now also impersonate the Emperor too. There is a whole plot where the head eccesiarcy guy, is shown visions of what ever the new emperor warp is (which is new lore aswell), and is shown that he defeats the nid army and a specific location. So he convinces the governor of the hive city to March his Millitarum regiment outside the city, into a valley and it's a trap. So Leviathan also has learned to use the power of faith for the Emperor as a weapon.
> Which I'm fine with, because at least it's a more interesting dynamic then the war of attrition we have been getting.
It’s also a plot ripped straight from StarCraft, with the Psi Disruptor that the Confederacy developed to direct the Zerg (and which in certain settings can also wipe them out en mass) and which Mensk used to wipe out the Confederacy and establish the Dominion.
But then the Tyranids have been getting steadily more Zerg-like ever since StarCraft came out, so this isn’t wholly surprising.
If the Necrons ever succeed in setting up their anti-warp array, then Tyranids lose all hive-mind connections and turn into a massive swarm of feral beasts.
The only thing that can stop nids is crons. Nids actively avoid their worlds because necrons have no biomatter, no psychic signature, etc. Or that was how it used to be, I have no idea if Newcrons mesh with that.
Hivefleet Kronos exists. They’ve evolved to specifically fight chaos creatures that offer no biomass. It’s a net loss of bio so they avoid it when they can, but they lost so much potential material to chaos spreading in some places they decided it would be worth it to sacrifice some to fight chaos. So it’s possible they wind up with “hivefleet robo-killer” at some point. Less likely, but possible. My guess is it’ll happen right after GW comes up with some cool ideas for robot killing tyranid models.
If your mom farded on them
NPC factions can never win.
Yes.
chaos destroys it first
imperials unleash the Hollywood deus ex machina and it fries the hive mind, scattering or killing all the nids
choose your route
Doesn’t Chaos shit its pants at the approach of the Tyranids, since the hive mind kind of just blots out Chaos through the sheer psychic pressure of trillions of emotive beings all acting and feeling in unison?
psychic noise? yes
emotive? no
Whatever, the point is that Chaos might still exist in some form under the Tyranids, but the Tyranids have such a unity of thought and purpose that their presence reshapes Chaos to suit them.
>Whatever
it's a slight but important difference: tyranids do not feel emotions in the same sense as other conscious beings, they do not shape the warp with their one conjoined collective soul, they just have so fricking many psychic communication lines and networks making up their hive mind that anyone who isn't accustomed or integrated into the network can only hear and see a cacophony of alien voices screeching at each other so loudly that nothing else can be heard
imagine having to recite a poem with someone screaming in your hear
imagine trying to have a phone call in the midst of a howling stadium
imagine trying to keep 4 spheres floating on water in a regular shape with someone creating waves on the water
that's what psykers trying to cast a spell, telepaths trying to communicate and daemons trying to remain in realspace, must confront with
The Nucrons decide to get off their off and do something.
Yes, but GW already ignored it
See, if you ought to believe the immense mass that is the tyranids according to GW descriptions and art, they would already be dead or at leasts selfcontained. After eating enve galaxies their own mass should had made them impossible to escape, the would form an immese planetoid with almost infinite mass and spaning distances of several galaxies
there's no description or art of their "mass"
we only know that they went through a dozen galaxies and their rough paths, which are not to scale for obvious reasons
it's unlikely that they eat every single planet with biomass in the galaxy they mow through and it's unlikely that the mass they pick up is so large to have significant gravitational pulls considering they make separate ships and separate fleets that travel at a distant from one another
not to mention the pseudoscientific bullshit they can pull off like literal and figurative wormholes and gravity manipulating narvhals which might be used to offset things in ways we can't know
>we only know that they went through a dozen galaxies
No we don't. Thats in-universe speculation. No one knows the full extent of the Hive Fleets, or how much of them is actually here. So far nothing has been confirmed about the nature and status of other galaxies in 40k.
>So far nothing has been confirmed about the nature and status of other galaxies in 40k.
Admech sent a probe past the edge of known space
So far all it's sent back is orkish hooting.
>Thats in-universe speculation.
no, it's not, everything else is, not this bit
I too would prefer a different background, like that it's the first intergalactic jump they make or that they have scythed through this galaxy before in the past but this is what we have
How long until the hive mind becomes a character? I’d say it’s inevitable unfortunately. It could be done well if they make it incredibly alien and weird, but it would be hard to get right.
there's literally no reason for that
They tried to portray it as malicious and vengeful entity in some book..
The Leviathan one that Tigerus starred in. He said he realized it recognized and hated him. Before the Emperor saved him from the Hive Mind's personalized wrath.
The Devastation of Baal book also implies that the Hivemind hates the Blood Angels and has a personal grudge against them.
>The sages of the Imperium thought the hive mind a non-sentient intelligence....
>The Imperial scholars were wrong. The hive mind knew. The hive mind thought, it felt, it hated and it desired. Its emotions were unutterably alien, wienertails of feeling not even the subtle aeldari might decipher. Its emotions were oceans to the puddles of a man's feelings. They were inconceivable to humanity, for they were too big to perceive.
>The hive mind looked out of its innumerable eyes towards the dull red star of Baal. It apprehended that this was the hive of the warriors that had hurt it so grievously, who had burned its feeding grounds and scattered its fleets. It hated the red prey, and it coveted them. Tasting their exotic genomes it had seen potential for new and terrible war beasts.
>And so it drew its plans, and it set in motion its trillion trillion bodies towards the consumption of the creatures in red metal, so that their secrets might be plundered, and reemployed in the sating of the hive mind's endless hunger. This was deliberate, considered, and done in malice. The hive mind was aware, and it desired vengeance.
Orks could stall them indefinitely, and be happy as clams about it.
Nids lose to orks and are incapable of even harming Necrons. NPC faction.
>Nids lose to orks
How? The orks can’t win or lose against anyone, they like fighting so much they’ll fight eachother if the other factions get too weak. It’s a self regulating system where they can’t really win OR lose.
>a future of endless war where no side can ever really win or lose
They’ve pretty much already met their win condition, and it’s not to eradicate or subdue the other factions.
>How?
You answered your own question.
>a future of endless war where no side can ever really win or lose
>They’ve pretty much already met their win condition
Yes. Orks give them a damn good kicking.
The only reasonable answer would be an eternal stalemate between them and the necrons, just as the Imperium is locked with Chaos
Necrons would win any protracted war with ease
Necrons will just quit, go into hibernation, and wait for the Nids to leave.
I don't think the nids would leave if some external force didn't compel them. If given free reign, they'd probably strip mine every single planet for mass and grow until they're using all available starlight in the galaxy.
>I don't think the nids would leave if some external force didn't compel them. If given free reign, they'd probably strip mine every single planet for mass and grow until they're using all available starlight in the galaxy.
Tyranids don't use starlight. What are you talking about? They are locusts that literally strip a planet of all biomass and move on. They don't form ecosystems on planets, they just consume and move on. Once a galaxy is void of all biomass, they move on to the next one.
Catachan is a tyranid world after a splinter fleet
Source?
"Tyranoforming" mutates/replaces native life (especially plants) on the planet with organisms that facilitate consumption in later stages. You're correct that they don't really use sunlight or otherwise farm biomass though.
There's a canon theory that various deadly creatures throughout the galaxy are actually nid organisms gone feral and evolving blindly. But even that theory doesn't claim Catachan is a tyranid world, only that the "Catachan devil" might be one of those leftovers. And it's not been confirmed.
Sorry to inform you (actually very happy) but Chaos already won. You can cope, seethe and gnash your teeth all you want but Chaos will consume the setting like it did Fantasy and Tyranids are nothing more than extra spice to make the rest of the meal more interesting.
If you don't like this then 40k is not for you and your missed status will be marked as NOT
>chaos
>consume the setting
>ensuring they have nothing to feed on and die out
>before mankind’s psychic awakening
Doubtful.
Gav Thrope said even if this were the chaos, Chaos is inherently self-destructive. But it's already been confirmed it's the same warp across all the settings. Chaos is not dependent on 40k
Fantasy smacks Chaos around on the regular, sounds like 40k are just shitters.
That's because Fantasy canonically only existed until the Chaos Gods got bored with it and made it Age of Sigmar. I do not recall if I've ever read anything that said as much as 40k but 40k is just as doomed to Chaos in the long run. Also 40k also features a blurb of a single marine rallying an agriworld to repel a daemon invasion. So yeah, 40k is kinda scrub-tier regardless whether its destruction is the result of continuous effort or a Fantasy-style sudden boredom of the gods
Forgeworld's Machines of the Lost and the Damned said that daemons are more vulnerable to primitive, traditional weapons than they are to guns or chain or power weapons. It attributes this to greater traditional weight and meaning attached to them by humanity. E.g. the symbolism behind the sword makes it resonate in the warp more and therefore makes daemons more vulnerable to it. But considering that boltguns are consistently stated to be revered as symbols of the Emperor's might, I don't know how they reconcile that. Maybe they'd claim age as a factor, swords have been with us forever and accumulated that meaning where boltguns have not or something gay like that.
That's also been stated in one of the HH black book campaign books. The one with the Calth campaign. The Ultramarines realized that melee weapons were much better at killing daemons than guns
Archaon dabbed on them, Settra, Sigmar dabbed on them. Slaanesh is a little b***h boy in Fantasy, if it is the same Chaos then it is unironically the case that Fantasy >>> it. People who try to claim "same Chaos" for real as a means of arguing that it isn't dependent or whatever don't realise what they're setting themselves up for.
Draigo showed up in End Times and the Liber Chaotica is quite explicit about it. I'm not sure there's much to argue about it being the same warp regardless of what it means for 40k power levels.
>chaos is not dependent on 40K
It kind of is though, or at least that version of chaos is dependent on 40K. Chaos WANTS more war and strife and misery, their goal wouldn’t even be to eradicate all life. They’re similar to orks in that they’ve basically already met their wincon, and can really only improve their position by say… having the human empire fall the same way the Eldar did (although it could be argued that already happened in the Horus Heresy)
>It kind of is though, or at least that version of chaos is dependent on 40K. Chaos WANTS more war and strife and misery, their goal wouldn’t even be to eradicate all life.
You are wrong. Chaos is entropy. Its goal is quite literally to eradicate all life and to increase the entropy of the universe until nothing resembling order or structure exists. Followers of Chaos, and the Chaos gods themselves, are just too stupid to understand this.
For Orks the end goal is to continue fighting eternally.
They absolutely do not want to eradicate human life. They want them to serve and worship. It can be in a form like the DEldar, who worship her indirectly, but absolutely not destroyed entirely.
You could make the argument chaos wants to control and change humans to the point they’re no longer humanity (see every chaos space marine) but that’s very different than total annihilation. The comparison to entropy is bizarre, because the realms of the chaos gods is very ordered, just not in the way a human would prefer (unless that human is an insane traitor).
What you’re saying doesn’t even remotely make sense for gods like Slaanesh or Tzeentch. Why would the god of excess want all the people to die?
What you’re doing is inferring that someone like the Nids want to wipe all life from the universe because they eat everything. They don’t, they want to grow, which requires things to eat, which requires that not everything be dead. There’s a big difference.
That's pretty good anon. It's disheartening to think that there actually are people out there who speak like this.
because in the grim darkness of the far future, your moms ass still smells so bad, its a galaxy wide bug spray.
Magnus and Lorgar are going to return and save the day by sacrificing themselves
squats are going to take massive losses and help bring the resurrection of the angel
orkz can believe their guns into getting bigger.
>orkz can believe their guns into getting bigger
Shut the frick up and just leave my faction alone already.
observe the lorelet.
>orkz can believe their guns into getting bigger.
Based
>and your missed status will be marked as NOT
Made me LOL
I hate but it's true
Chaos wins in every version of Warhammer
All warhammer writers agree on this
>Chaos will consume the setting
That means it hasn't already won.
It might win in the future, but
>Orkz have already won, and keep winning
>War consumes the setting right fricking now, and that's what Orks crave
>Along with some electrolytes
Universe? Probably many.
Galaxy? Not really no, with how all consuming they are shown to be and have been. 40K is fricked. They will be eaten, it's only a question of when.
As others have said, they would could have a hard time with the Orks or Necrons.
I would also think the Emperor were somehow fully healed/awakened, he could probably mount a considerable resistance at worst, overwhelming at best.
40k does a good job of making tons of factions have viable "paths to victory".
Emps almost died to a particularly big ork, the Hivemind would smoke him.
Emperor is a magic user first, fighter second. HE'll smoke the Hivemind and they eat it with a beer.
>magic user
Shadow in the Warp, lmao
Emps is fricking ded, m8
Wouldn't Nids win the long game against Orkz since they'd ultimately mutate into the optimal Ork-killers? A stalemate between them would favor the Nids with every passing day.
Orkz are also reliant on more resources than the Nids so at some point all the Orkz will have left is dead Nids - who in turn would just evovle to liquify on death so that the Okrz would end up fighting more or less empty handed after centuries of attrition.
At least from my understanding of those two factions and races, the Nids would ultimately come out on top against the Okrz.
The Nids won Octarius, so yes that is likely. Ultimately they managed to evolve past the Ork roadblock and broke the back of the Ork armies there. Scattered fighting still continues elsewhere in the sector, and the Imperium managed to use Octarius to buy themselves enough time to stabilise their own battle lines in preparation for the next Nid push, but the Tyranids won.
Not only that, Nids have a lot of options Orks don't have. Like mutating to become far more poisonous or releasing poison gasses that would just keep instakilling orks that spawn. They can slowly turn the entire planet into toxic sludge and smog unlivable even to orks, then collect all the biomass once everything is dead and dissolved.
Hive fleets are simply far more capable of coordinating planetary assaults, they can attack in force when and where they want and cut their losses if necessary (assuming the fleet isn't pressed by starvation) and the hive mind is clearly capable of (and getting better at) strategy, ork waaaghs are fundamentally more chaotic and less coordinated, and warbosses are not quite superhuman strategists.
They're about as good at endlessly spawning combat-ready organisms, but it seems Tyranids have a clear edge overall.
Tyranids are more tactically flexible simply because Orks will never retreat because that's unOrky but nids don't care. They will do anything to win
>Orks will never retreat
lorelet
You guys are forgetting a few things.
1. Orks outnumber tyranids
2. Things like chemical weapons or tyranids evolving into perfect ork killers is not really possible as orks are the most adaptable species in the galaxy they grow stronger as they fight, on octarius the average ork was bigger than a space marine and orks are always inventing crazy new warmachines like deffkoptas, gorkanaughts, roks (entire asteroids retrofitted to be space stations), they have crazy amounts of teleportation technology that can teleport gargants (ork titans), shokk attack guns tellyporta guns, trakor beams, hell for gas weapons they can just make makeshift gasmasks assuming poison gas even works on them in the first place.
3. The Orks on Octarius came close to winning and are still fighting under a new leader and have only been pushed off planetside, this happened to the nids when Ghazkull showed up.
4. Ork warbosses get smarter as well as stronger unlike most orks which is how big waaagh!s like ghazkulls and wazdakkas gutsmeks get so big and when one dies usually his first nob will take his place, Orks like to infight and backstab but they like fighting other species more than killing eachother so orks would never resort to chopping eachother to death in a big fight like Octarius
Its big stalemate and tyranids being the vanguard of a bigger threat has never been really been confirmed. In anycase it wouldnt be easy for them
>so orks would never resort to chopping eachother to death in a big fight like Octarius
They are literally doing this right now, a bunch of different ork warlords are fighting over who gets to be boss while the Tyranids clean up.
>1. Orks outnumber tyranids
A problem that solves itself, and irrelevant as long as Orks stay divided.
>Things like chemical weapons or tyranids evolving into perfect ork killers is not really possible
Absurd.
>they get bigger
So what? The tyranids can apportion a larger ratio of biomass to large organisms too, if size even matters.
>orks are always inventing crazy new warmachines
Tyranids are always inventing new biomorphs too. The orks' resourcefulness (combined with sheer numbers) barely allows them to fight the imperium to a standstill on several planets while Tyranids usually require Navy interventions, Exterminatus etc.
>Ork warbosses get smarter
None can match the Hivemind in strategy.
>tyranids being the vanguard of a bigger threat has never been really been confirmed
Cope. For that matter almost everything you've said about Orks "has never really been confirmed"
1. Orks literally outnumber anyone they fight and it does matter because tyranids aren't all in one place either
2. Yea literally impossible, if gas weapons was enough to kill Orks the imperium and death guard would just use that stuff nonstop on orks
3. you're just grasping at straws now, orks can build bigger and stronger tanks to match larger tyranid forms while each of them gets as strong as a space marine, meanwhile nids would have to spend more biomass to make stronger warriors instead of just naturally being stronger, not to mention nids can only recoup losses after a victory, they need more biomass to make stronger warriors while orks just get stronger from fighting
4. 2nd war for armageddon required several navy fleets, dozens of space marine chapters and who fricking knows how many guard regiments and they still barely won and now theres the 3rd war for Armageddon which is even bigger. Not to mention the emperor was almost slain by an Ork and Terra was directly sieged by Orks while almost every primarch was still around. and thats one of just a few Waaagh!s currently going on
5. Ghazkull gets visions from literal fricking gods and has outsmarted some of the imperiums top tacticians and pushed the nids shit in when he showed up at octarius. There are also like several top ork warbosses wrecking shit around the galaxy right now
6. It literally hasn't
Nidgays are always b***hing and so delusional whenever their gay faction isn't being wanked off every 2 seconds, you guys are worse than chaosgays
hes right about chemical bioweapons working. The only reason the imperium never uses them is because you would need to have poison that never harms friendlies and enough of it to gas the entire planet. Theres also the fact that the imperium fights orks with the intention of keeping the planet after and not have a giant shithole. Tyranids can just gas everyone and then slurp up the remains
You can take all that into account and it doesn’t change the fact Orks are essentially self limiting. They may get bursts of energy where they waaaargh out under a strong leader and grow and grow… but there’s always in-fighting or some upstart krumping the leader that will limit how far they can go. To really eradicate any faction they need an equal enemy that fights them on their terms. Octarius is a great example because they almost won, but when the tyranids started to engage in hit and run then hide tactics they were able to come back on them.
Orks will just never “win” entirely.. because to an Ork the fight ending is the worst loss there is.
Make the net biomass be negative and they frick off to another galaxy It's actually simpler then you think. 2 primary ways for imperium to do this,
Fortify worlds so tyranids to use more resources. Maybe also modify weapons to be more like necrons and how it leaves no biomass behind. (Tech priest are okay with modifying aslong as it's not just a pure improvement)
As soon as you start losing control of a planet to tyranids exterminatus the planet so it's a net negative for biomass. Store exterminatus on planets in hidden bunkers and trigger them maybe?
At that point they'd just start leaning more into genestealers and viral loads to sidestep thise strategies via infiltration
>exterminatus planets before nids eat them
As I remember this tactic actually made the INQUISITION turn on one of their own because it was too extreme. Also the nids boil down all bio mass on a planet including their own forces. It doesn't matter if it takes 100,000,000 troops to take a fortress of 10,000. At the end of the day the nids will slurp all the biomass on the planet and come out with 100,010,000 worth of biomass.
Weapons that render biomass unusable is a good idea but any type of viral agent will quickly be adapted to. So unless everyone swaps to guass tek not likely.
Another problem is what it means to make biomass unavailable. On iceballs or desert worlds or space stations the only available biomass is the humans exploiting and defending it, the tyranids invading and maybe orks. On Forge Worlds and Hive Worlds too, virtually all the biomass is contained in the hives. So in that case the strategy of fortifying the frick out of every settlement and making sure there are few or no corpses for the nids to pick works for starving them (or getting them to ignore the planet and move on.)
But in worlds with an actual biosphere, and especially those jungle planets like Catachan or agri-worlds, most of the biomass is out there for grabs and enemies are a rather insignificant fraction that must be defeated just so they can harvest the rest. So it doesn't matter if they lose 1 billion tyranids beating a 1 million garrison armed exclusively with gauss or volkite or whatever cheese weapon evaporates nids without a trace, they'll harvest the biomass for a hundred billion tyranids when they win. They don't even need to defeat the garrison really, just force them to hunker down in their little fortresses while they consume the rest of the planet and turn it into a Dead World.
Those are the worlds where only Exterminatus or similar methods would work at starving the nids.
What is "destroying the universe". We have seen planets with the biomass consumed by nids, and you know what? Necrons would be happy as clams there.
Do you just mean, whats to stop humans from being eaten by them? A few things, really. One, even if everything else went to shit, there are enough humans scattered everywhere that the tyranids couldn't (and won't) try to eat every little pocket of humans on every single moon, mining asteroid, and space ship. Its wildly inefficient, they would just look for areas with more densely packed biomass and a greater variety of DNA to sample and use. It will be much better to keep moving to another galaxy then to hunt down every single little scrap of meat in this one.
Second, if they come to terra and kill big E, he should respawn (and a new eye of terror should open up there). Either the emperor kills them off/drives them away, or a galaxy where chaos is the only choice for mankind has the chaos gods dunk on them.
The Tyranids will only win when GW decides it is no longer profitable to sell the overpriced figures of all the other races. It's a wargame setting you mong, the lore ony exists to promote sales.
Games Workshop destroys it first.
>nids make their grand, final push
>a random primarch returns
>nids get roflstomped
>thats 200 bucks pls
what i hate is that this is the likely conclusion.
Redemptor dread is such a great model, how did they possibly frick it up that badly?
It looks like a shitty tryhard overhaul of the classic box. The overdesigned, overcompensating Starkiller Base to the timeless clean elegance that is the Death Star
It's really ugly, on top of being larger than a frickin leviathan dreadnought. Same problem as the new nids, honestly. The emissary is just a hive tyrant but BIGGER, with no real design change from the older one other than more greebles all over.
The new brain bug and the leapers are pretty damn cool, at least.
Oh please, Primarchs only come back when Failbaddon attempts something noteworthy again. We've got about 3/4ths of an edition to churn through before Chaos becomes mildly relevant and jobs another Primarch back into existence.
GW shareholders
evolving into sexy tyranid babes to breed the other races out of existence instead of just eating and killing everything
Yes, the Necros decide to use them as their new bodies
No because they can only field 3 rippers swarms at a time
The Tyranids are not an endless horde. They need biomass to increase their numbers and can be bled white if denied that.
Of course they’re not literally endless, but their numbers are high enough that it probably doesn’t make a difference.
Consider: you really think this is the first time they’ve encountered a galaxy where the natives tried the deny-them-biomass trick?
Yes, which is that warhanmer is a miniatures wargame intended to exist in perpetuity.
It would be interesting if a faction with heavy emphasis on robotics, say the Tau, the Mechanics or Necrons, just says frick it and unleashes bilions of self-replicating robots to stripmine planets to the core to face the Tyranids.
The admech can send robots and servitors to starve the nids of flesh. Necrons are pretty much a hard counter to nids
But...but wouldn't the nids still be getting biomass by eating the fleshy servitor bits
Wouldn't the nids just be able to keep recycling their dead without real cost to themselves
>freezes and starves your entire nid fleet
Put weather machines on every planet and set the weather to Winter mode whenever a Nid invasion comes.
whats to stop the nids from developing blubber and insulating fur?
Reads like a trick that will work once.
>furry nids
it's already happened
That's a yiffer, not a nidder
ya
At this point Chaos already altered the reality so much it is pretty much toying with the galaxy before devouring it and turning it into perpetual hell. Nids cannot eat something that is that is made of darkness and fear.
>inb4 chaos will starve itself
No it will not, that was never canon. Chaos does not need worship to exist, it needs them to speed up the process, which it does not care about in the longshot. Turning the entire galaxy into a giant Eye of Terror is not a matter of if but when.
Wasn't there a book/codex entry that shows that Daemons and Chaos still exist during the heat death of the universe? The one with Qaramar?
"Chaos needs worshipers" was always kind of a moot point, the cultists on Daemon worlds are still worshipers, the primitives on feral worlds who beg the Old Gods for the strength to survive some CSM warband's incursion are also worshipers, the beastmen who pray for victory against rival tribes are also worshipers and so on. Chaos could throw the entire galaxy into the warp or just remove any credible threat and claim the W.
The tyranids couldn't even destroy Ultramar lmao
Jobber faction
You just know they will pull some big gambit out of their ass to kill the Hivemind itself.
And it'll be an "unlikely" alliance of Imperium and Eldar and Necrons or some such.
Like, block out the psychic connection of the 'nids with a a Eldar megadevice that just blanks out the whole galaxy or some shit, while you have the Necrons attack en-masse to sow chaos and the heroic Ultramarines and Blood Angels will deepstrike the Hivemind and all die but kill it, and the Hivefleets all lose cohesion and are easy prey.
There, I plotted out a trilogy of novels for you, GW.
Chaos already mindfricked the Hivemind before:
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHAOS! Through Tyranid Eyes. See the reaction of the Hivemind to the birth of the Great Rift.
>Unclean energies spread through the sky, engulfing ships in writhing wreaths of hellish light. They burst and fell, burning with green flame. Reality quivered like a struck gong. All across the deserts of Baal, the tyranids stopped, and turned as one to face the heavens, their mouths open as wide as they would go.
>The awful shriek came from a billion alien throats.
>The hive mind was screaming.
------------------------------
>Screaming warp fire crashed against the gestalt soul of the tyranids, catching it unawares. The delicate synaptic web that bound its numberless minds into one being shrivelled like thread in a fire. Never before had the hive mind been so grievously wounded. Its control over its trillions of bodies was violently disrupted. Hive fleet was cleaved from hive fleet, brood from brood so catastrophically that for a moment the hive mind ceased to be. It recovered quickly, diminished but alive, but that moment seemed to the hive mind an eternity of darkness. Trillions of its creatures permanently lost touch with the hive mind, and were reduced to unthinking animals.
>For the first time in its existence, the hive mind tasted death.
>In the Baal system hundreds of thousands of tyranids died, their brain stems reduced to smoking mulch by psychic feedback. Aggressive void predators became drifting hulks in the space of an instant.
>All across the deserts of Baal, the tyranids stopped, and turned as one to face the heavens, their mouths open as wide as they would go.
>The awful shriek came from a billion alien throats.
Chaos literally made Tyranids do the wojak face gape
Sure was nice of those Chaos fellas to show up and save them Marines right as they were all about to be eaten.
Khorne refuses to allow anyone to destroy the children of Sanguinius, as believes they are his and his alone.
By 40k canon there is no time in the warp at all, so "dead for a moment" does not happen because the other timeless aspects of the hive mind still exist.
>Never before had the hive mind been so grievously wounded.
Chaos gemerald. 40k truly is a Chaoschad's playground.
>When at first you didn't really give a shit about chaos
>Now you like it
Warp overtaking me good pain ect
>40k writers then they realize chaos jobbed to nids in every encpunter
Hohohoho not on my watch! *grins fatly*
Nids are way too dumb and weak to be sonething other than hord of easy kills. Especially if their grimderp implications are true and the whole giant outer galaxy hive already starved to death, leaving this vanguard force with no back up
Tell the Chinese it's okay to eat them and just make sure there are no escalators between the Chinese and the Nids.
Yes, any other faction in the entire setting presses their "flip the table" button first.
No one has really picked up just how huge they retcond the tyranid in the new book Leviathan. The hive mind, and shadow in the warp are a lot different. Basically, GW gave the nids the ability to disrupt cogitators, which is a huge deal, because almost everything in the imperium runs on them. But to balance out this GW also changed how synapse works...again. at least in the book, the nids are controlled by the hivemind via neurocyte that attaches to the larger bio forms. So, it seems like they are trying to give the nids a huge weakness. As the imperium, in theory could use a neurocyte network of their own to disrupt nid armies.
But I think this new dynamic flew over most people's head, so it'll probably get mothballed.
>GW gave the nids the ability to disrupt cogitators
Implying Imperium technology is sentient
Yes, cogitators are commonly just mechanical computers, but the advanced ones are interlaced with human minds, like cawls computer on Gillimans ship, or in the novel the brain that is hooked into the data banks of the ship port, that the hive mind takes control of, and uses to figure out how to blow up the space port. People don't realize how huge this is, targeting systems, shields, everything is a series of cogitator and human brains. This is a fundamental flaw in the imperium and now that GW opened this can of worms, and at least hive fleet leviathan has figured out this flaw, the only limiting factor is how they want to use it in future battles. The imperium is fricked.
On the tabletop, but in the novel, they are also attached to larger bio forms like the norm emissary. There is a huge plot point where the space marines hunt it, so they can have a chance at getting one of these nerocytes. The hive tyrants and larger forms of course still have control over the smaller bio forms, but GW is at least attempting to change it from warp frickery, to an actual network of smaller nodes. That's the whole point of the novel, if the imperium can create its own network of the nerocytes they can disrupt the tyranids. Which I'm fine with, because at least it's a more interesting dynamic then the war of attrition we have been getting.
>at least attempting to change it from warp frickery
I mean, what's the difference between a psychic synaptic network kept up by the brains of tyranid creatures themselves and a psychic synaptic network kept up by the brains of tyranid creatures with the help of an embedded biomorph?
GW wrote themselves into a corner. In an earlier novel, when Leviathan was detected it was estimated that the Imperium would need to muster every single able bodied person in segmentum Pacifica and Solar to stop it. Obviously not possible, so I think they had to add a flaw that could be exploited by the Imperium to stop the nids. It just gives them a weakness.
But the Hive mind can now also impersonate the Emperor too. There is a whole plot where the head eccesiarcy guy, is shown visions of what ever the new emperor warp is (which is new lore aswell), and is shown that he defeats the nid army and a specific location. So he convinces the governor of the hive city to March his Millitarum regiment outside the city, into a valley and it's a trap. So Leviathan also has learned to use the power of faith for the Emperor as a weapon.
it was a rhetorical question, there's no practical difference at the end of the day.
> Which I'm fine with, because at least it's a more interesting dynamic then the war of attrition we have been getting.
It’s also a plot ripped straight from StarCraft, with the Psi Disruptor that the Confederacy developed to direct the Zerg (and which in certain settings can also wipe them out en mass) and which Mensk used to wipe out the Confederacy and establish the Dominion.
But then the Tyranids have been getting steadily more Zerg-like ever since StarCraft came out, so this isn’t wholly surprising.
>the nids are controlled by the hivemind via neurocyte that attaches to the larger bio forms.
that's just the neurogaunts
The Emperor gets off his ass, pulls all humans into the Webway, and rides out the storm. Then we have 30k 2.0, except set in 50k.
Only if the Orks destroy it first
If the Necrons ever succeed in setting up their anti-warp array, then Tyranids lose all hive-mind connections and turn into a massive swarm of feral beasts.
Void-thriving Life-Eater Virus. Checkmate, nids.
tyranids are the coolest faction in 40k. I love their older art
The only thing that can stop nids is crons. Nids actively avoid their worlds because necrons have no biomatter, no psychic signature, etc. Or that was how it used to be, I have no idea if Newcrons mesh with that.
So the Imperium need to bait the Nids into attacking an important Necron world to drag the latter into the conflict?
They might not take the bait since the biggest necron worlds don't have any biomass
Hivefleet Kronos exists. They’ve evolved to specifically fight chaos creatures that offer no biomass. It’s a net loss of bio so they avoid it when they can, but they lost so much potential material to chaos spreading in some places they decided it would be worth it to sacrifice some to fight chaos. So it’s possible they wind up with “hivefleet robo-killer” at some point. Less likely, but possible. My guess is it’ll happen right after GW comes up with some cool ideas for robot killing tyranid models.
Didn't Lorgar join Chaos specifically so it could protect mankind from the horrors of outer space?
They won't because it will never be written that way and the setting will never progress that far.
No, not late, never. You'll drop dead and the company will close before such a thing happens.
Please, prove me wrong.
Has anyone attempted to ask the nids politely to stop? Is the Imperium stupid?
Dont necrons hard counter tyranids?
>no biomass
>gauss weapons to destroy tyranid bodies
>no warp presence
seems like a counter to me
Their rework had this goal, but GW writers have way too much of a hardon for nids for necrons to really matter.
Because Chaos exists to be continually sucked off by the devs despite being the least interesting antagonist faction.
necrons
Yes. On the tabletop.