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Is there still a market for traditional RPGs with a focus on story and characters?
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No, and octopath traveler doesn't count because they refuse to do the normal 4 homies in a row from the start gameplay.
Bravely default was ok.
but octopath does count. A lot of jrpgs start with only one or two characters
Octopath also has shit VA and dialogue. Don't let that bloom blind you so much. its just 2d weebshit like xenoblade, genshin, honkai, etc.
you can claim it's shit but the focus is in the characters
I guess VII doesn't count either since it caps out at 3 homies.
Rare FPWP
Pic unrelated? That was focused on gameplay (and better for it)
Every FF until 15 focused on story over gameplay
I beg your pardon ?
Yeah I was about to say, FFV story wise has good moments but is like one of the weakest in the series I don't think you could even make a stock protagonist like Bartz work minus literally making him a self insert silent type.
I genuinely think FFV is one of my favorite FF stories. It doesn't waste your time, it doesn't jump down your throat, it tells a story about 4(+1) people who got unwittingly pulled together and have to save the world from an evil tree and his fast-talking crony. The characters are consistent, the villains are fun, and the worlds getting slammed together in the final part is a really cool setpiece, seeing how it all fits together. But that might just be me being simple.
Understandable. Have a good day.
I love FF5, but come on. Its story is a lame Saturday morning cartoon with a pirate princess, a talking turtle, and a villain that turns himself into a splinter to follow you.
Everything you mentioned is great and puts it above many other FF stories. Most villains wish they were as charismatic and ridiculous as Exdeath.
I don't think laughing at what's going on on screen is the end-all, be-all of a good story. The audience needs to take it seriously to some extent and get invested in it. That's hard to do with FF5. It's too damn goofy and dumb.
>the audience needs to take it seriousl-ACK!
I TURNED MYSELF INTO A SPLINTER, BARTZ!
I'M SPLINTER EXDEEEAAAAATH!
>It was me, Barry! Me!
(me)
This kino
>audience needs to take it seriously to some extent and get invested in it
There were plenty of emotional moments. Most notably the ones where you stay in a town. I remember Bartz returning to his home village midway through the adventure to be rather heartwarming. And Reina and Faris coming to accept each other as sisters. Not to mention Galuf and Krile's relationship
And that's a good thing.
Great, ain't it?
Exdeath is cool because he's weaker than you in most situations. He never beats you in an outright fight despite you fighting him multiple times throughout the game, he either catches you by surprise or hides away behind his minions and bides his time. He's a much craftier bastard than you'd expect with his imposing stature.
I always thought stuff like that made him much more interesting than most other villains.
The game has some pretty deep and touching character moments and some of the events in the game are straight up dark. Your perception of the story has been tainted by the wacky cultural references in the English translation and the broader English language discourse around the game in general.
>The game has some pretty deep and touching character moments and some of the events in the game are straight up dark.
Oh come the frick on. You know full well those don't outweigh the goofy shit in the slightest. Mid hitting Cid on the head while crying and telling Cid to not give up is not some "deep and touching character moment".
Wow you identified the side characters, congratulations.
What would you like me to use as an example?
Lenna walking through the poison flowers to heal Hiryu?
Syldra dying after rescuing the team from the Water Crystal tower's collapse?
Galuf's death?
The emotional moments are far and few between and are totally outnumbered by gags and slapstick scenes.
>The emotional moments are far and few between and are totally outnumbered by gags and slapstick scenes.
I think this just comes down to personal preference. I prefer the balance between comedy and emotional moments to lean more towards the comedy side, like I prefer Dragon Ball to Dragon Ball Z. But that is clearly the side that lost the war when it comes to Final Fantasy. There are no comedic games after Final Fantasy V, though some are better at striking a balance than others. FFiV does it terribly with characters killing themselves at a drop of a hat, FFVI does a bit better with Ultros but still pretty depressing trying to catch fish to save a dying man's life.
Yeah no, comedic scenes decline in number rapidly as you progress through the game and unless you count wacky references to TMNT, Power Rangers, and Pokémon, inserted by hack translators, as ""gags"" they do not outnumber the relatively serious events that take place.
I’d rather have Saturday morning cartoon plots than dark and grim Western shit.
>the villains are fun
I found it hilarious how often Gilgamesh pops up just to get his ass whooped. But then in the final castle space environment he seems lost, confused, and lonely, and that made me sad.
>But then in the final castle space environment he seems lost, confused, and lonely, and that made me sad.
That just made me think time works differently in the Void. I mean it is a place where Omega and Shinryu are just sort of chilling without any grand introduction.
Gilgamesh has been stuck in the Void fighting otherworldly abominations for a really really long time, with only his memories of fighting the party to think back on. He has lost his mind and seeing the party again brings him back. He realizes he cares for us and wants us to succeed at all costs to prevent anyone else from experiencing the horrors of the Void.
He's a great character and he still show up in any cameo you want if you just assume he was able to slip out of the Void for a little bit into another reality.
The void is simply the concept of nothingness, which the Enuo and later Exdeath use as a weapon/source of power. It's not a location. The interdimensional rift is the location where the void and a bunch of other really bad shit has been sealed away.
>FFV
>Focus on story and characters
homie the story barely matters in V. The game is king for its gameplay and the job system, nothing else.
no. next final fantasy will be extraction based first person game with focus on customization.
more like dark and darker than tarkov but set in squareverse.
screenshot this so you can shitpost that someone leaked it in 2023
>video games
>good story
>good characters
>torturing yourself by making it turn based
Why do people do this shit?
>ATB system
>traditional JRPG
no
>FF5
>focus on story and characters
no
why do FF fans seem to not understand the first thing about the games they supposedly like?
Maybe you should start by posting a game where the story actually matters.
Nobody would play FFV, or any FF, because of the gameplay
1 and 13, plus arguably 7, have gameplay strong enough to not drag down the experience. Every other game in the franchise is bad though.
>7
>fricking 1
lmao
The roguelike style of FF1's party formation makes the game highly replayable, with great variation between playthroughs. Plus the game lacks ATB cancer, and the original magic system makes it very satisfying to grow your spellcasters. It has by far the most fun gameplay out of the first 6 games.
>13
>strong gameplay
>auto battle
>stagger
>obnoxious mobile game damage numbers
>ending retconned for the sake of asset flipped sequels with more bad gameplay
oh no no no
Not seeing any actual criticism of the game in your post
I would.
Also FFV has the most emotional story in Final Fantasy and I will never understand people, who think its story isn't good. I just know they think so.
V and XII had really good gameplay systems though XII could use more iterations to perfect. Outside of them I somewhat agree, there are better JRPGs for people looking for good gameplay including but not limited to SaGa, Etrian Odyssey, TWEWY, Dragon Quarter, etc. You could even try getting into competetive Pokemon via Pokemon Showdown for highly strategic JRPG gameplay.
>proceeds to ask "what makes a game a Final Fantasy?" to some anon complaining about nu-FF later on
JOB SYSTEM YOU FRICKING Black person
Is barely anything at all. The gameplay is still the same as previous games
You didn't beat the game.
Why did you make that post with a game that doesn't give much of a frick about either and focuses way more on a central character progression system?
Because it doesn't?
V's job system in an actually engaging and interesting story/world would actually be great. As it is now, I have no desire to replay the game ever again despite recognizing that it's gameplay is more than good enough.
No. Big corporate demands broad appeal; sparkle in ESG score and you have your result. Like Television, there is nothing anymore that ponders the brain except the copious amounts of moronness and Black folk everywhere.
>posts game without focus on story and characters
are you fricking moronic, have you even played FFV? The story was more basic than the one in IV (But far better for it because it doesn't have as much moronic forced drama)
The worst part of all is that FFV has great RPG gameplay, bested only by FFX-2 in its own series, but that anyone who ever attempts to make a FF5-like fails completely to understand what made it good and why it remains re-playable even to this day.
FFT did it pretty well.
FFT is an SRPG and is sort of in its own category. Can't really compare it directly to ATB RPGs.
Now, if FFX had a proper job system, then we might be able to make a comparison since FFX basically lifted the turn order mechanics from SRPGs and applied it to 4 homies in a row, and it worked extremely well.
well, 3 homies in a row. but you get the idea.
What are your thoughts about Crystal Project? I found it to basically be FF5+a dash of FF11 with the tanking system. My biggest complaints about it were the excessive platforming/mediocre story.
Crystal Project is a drag to play because all it wants to do is kick your ass at every possible encounter. This isn't a bad thing on its own, but when encounters as frequent as this game has are all more difficult than the average mid-boss fight in just about any other game, it gets old fast. There is "fun" resource management that makes you think about your approach carefully, and then there's Crystal Project which is dreadful shit.
The job system felt like it was only there to appeal to normalgays who think they liked ffv and similar games. AKA it's reddit shit.
I'm all for difficult games that challenge you to change your approach to battles, but there are "simpler" games out there that do a better job of it. FFV's job system never felt like it was about granting you a winning ticket to battles, just that you were getting more and more different tools to try out, with a majority of them being valid ways to win. Crystal Project feels like it wants you to win 1 way a lot of the time and it doesn't actually feel like it rewards experimental play as a result.
Bravely Default did it, gameplay wise. Im not going to get in the story because i know most people dont like the loop
Bravely Default introduced an interesting risk/reward aspect that has yet to be replicated or properly expanded upon by anything else, even its own alleged sequels. Being able to queue up multiple turns worth of advance actions is pretty novel as far as turn based RPG mechanics go, and the only reason it's actually good is because enemies can get you right back if you frick up.
SMT's press turn battle system was probably the first iteration of it, and never shied away from punishing players who failed to understand it and use it properly.
I struggle to think of other interesting ways to make games better without resorting to gimmicky shit. I think EarthBound's odometer HP still has potential left in it, but Mother 3 made it even less of a factor by slowing it down to a laughable degree. I think odometer HP/MP but with a speedier/twitchier battle system might make for a highly-skilled game, and might even pair well with a BD/press-turn like system if done correctly.
I think some other systems like some CRPGs employ as well which sort of throw to the risk/reward thing could be cool too, like MP having no "zero check" and letting you cast any spell into negative MP, but the price being you're a sitting duck and can take no actions until you recharge into 0+ MP again.
>FFV has great RPG gameplay
bruh please, it's linear as all shit and the job system is nothing special, it's only "great" in the context of Final Fantasy but that doesn't mean much because FF is fricking garbage as an actual game series.
Well unfortunately for you, if SE returned to that style of gameplay for XVII it would sell a bajillion copies despite costing a lot less to produce.
Because a bajillion people are waiting
lmao sure, just how Octopath and Bravely died out immediately after their first entries, keep being deluded bro
>lmao sure, just how not Final Fantasy and not Final Fantasy died out immediately after their first entries, keep being deluded bro
You people were always gloating about those two games being the true FF games of their generation but now they're not?
looool, as if people who actually want quality turn based gameplay would play anything Square made other than SaGa
Black person I haven't played them, and I don't think I ever will
I'm the type of guy that's the reason they DON'T sell (if they don't, I don't know)
They look like indie shit last I checked
>Black person I haven't played them, and I don't think I ever will
A clueless homosexual who doesn't even play videogames (because they don't look like AAA slop) talks about what "people" actually want, yep, it's a FF thread on Ganker
Well unlike you I've only purchased about 5 new releases games since late 2016, and mostly emulate old shit that I have and haven't played before.
So if anyone's a consumer that buys FOTM AAA slop, it's you, a person that's always bumping up slop sale statistics by 1
calling Bravely Default and Octopath Traveler 2 slop (Octopath 1 wasn't very good, but you wouldn't know that) while complaining about how mainline Final Fantasy returning to turnbased would be a good thing because it'd bump up sale statistics is idiotic, you claim nobody knows what made FFV good while ignoring games that do attempt to strike that same appeal because they don't have "FINAL FANTASY AAA BIG RELEASE" plastered upon their titles; despite the fact that both are Team Asano games and classic Final Fantasy in everything but name
>calling Bravely Default and Octopath Traveler 2 slop
I was not even implying that let alone not literally saying it
>you claim nobody knows what made FFV good
Where?
>while ignoring games that do attempt to strike that same appeal because they don't have "FINAL FANTASY AAA BIG RELEASE" plastered upon their titles
AAA BIG RELEASE isn't necessary but exactly, That's what I'm saying. I don't make the rules, that's just how it is, make it look pretty, put FF on it, and turn a huge profit. You don't need to rinse money on making the game as you are with XV and XVI, nor do you need to rinse on advertisement because people already know what the game will be.
Boomers will come back, broarder JRPG fans will play it, there may be many non-JRPG newcomers giving it a try down the line like persona 5 had, and "GOTY even though the game isn't out yet" FOTMs will be filtered, leading to far less shit threads than XVI is getting
Square should hire me
I don't buy "FOTM AAA slop" because
a) I'm not a mentally ill moron who likes Final Fantasy or thinks it was ever good
b) I'm not a moronic homosexual in denial like you who talks about games he doesn't play and makes dumb prediction about a market he knows nothing about and projects his mental illness on other people
Most of the games I buy and support are low budget/indies because that's where the bulk of the good stuff is, the only actual AAA games I actually bought in over 15 years are:
>MHW+IB
>Elden Ring
>AC6, if that even counts as AAA
Then I got some occasional old AAA game like Sunset Overdrive years later for dirt cheap, and you don't see me making up bullshit like you do about how many people would buy a turn based FF game, as if you homosexuals ever cared about how that dogshit series played, XV sold well over 10 millions after all and 7R is at nearly 15 millions.
>I'm the type of guy that's the reason they DON'T sell
you claim that there's huge demand for a certain type of gameplay and then profess that you entirely ignore games with that exact sort of gameplay published by the same company as and inspired by the games you say you want because they look like "indie shit", you're an absolute moron
See what makes me lose all hope in Square isn't that they make bad games, but rather when they do make a great game they manage to frick it up somehow.
The writer for Bravely Default left a perfect sequel hook and they dropped every plot point to replace it with the sloppiest slop that ever slopped, why?! WHY DID THEY DO THAT?! THEY HAD IT IN THEIR HANDS AND THEY THREW IT AWAY
>Super Mario RPG will probably outsell FFXVI
This sounds like the perfect thread to ask this
Can someone recommend me some turn based RPGs? Old or new, don't care. I have played the most common ones. I don't like autistic social mechanics like Persona though
This is the best JRPG ever made, bar none. You do have to play the inferior first game to understand the story (as well as to unlock all the postgame content), but the first game is short so that's not a big problem.
Frick no it isn't. The dialog padding and the Djinn system sucks.
You haven't even played the game in my picture.
Well, I did play the first one, which sucked. Why would I want to play the sequel/second half?
The first game is just a glorified tutorial + story setup for the second game. The second game is immediately far more hands-off and open in terms of progression, with very little in the way of lore dumping and much larger and more elaborate dungeons which naturally create a greater amount of time spent playing rather than talking. Every single person I've seen on here who casually shits on the series turns out to have not played the second game, it's very tiresome.
>Every single person I've seen on here who casually shits on the series turns out to have not played the second game, it's very tiresome.
Why would expect otherwise? Having to sit through a 20-30 hour-long slog isn't something most people are willing to do. You need a baseline level of enjoyment and investment in the first game to even want to try out the sequel.
The first game isn't bad, it's just a bit slow paced at points, really no different than any FF game. It's also nowhere near 30 hours long, 15-20 at most for 100% completion. It's a 7/10 game, and the sequel is a 10/10.
>really no different than any FF game.
FF doesn't have nearly as much dialog padding and hasn't had a battle system as clunky as GS's since like FF3.
>hasn't had a battle system as clunky as GS's
GS's battle system is fast and highly refined though. Are you talking about the lack of attack re-targeting, ie. non-mindless gameplay? Did you really get filtered by having to actually think about who to attack?
>Did you really get filtered by having to actually think about who to attack?
I see zero game design value in having a character attack thin fricking air. You don't get some tasteful boost in tactical thinking from this shit. It's just an oversight.
>I see zero game design value in having a character attack thin fricking air.
This is like saying that it would be fine for an FPS to automatically redirect the bullets if you keep spraying at the corpse of an enemy after it dies. Of course there is "game design value" in making you think about the capabilities of your party members and designating their attacks appropriately, you fricking moron.
>This is like saying that it would be fine for an FPS to automatically redirect the bullets if you keep spraying at the corpse of an enemy after it dies.
Anon, this is a turn-based JRPG without any sort of positioning mechanics. Eyeballing how much damage party members need to combine to kill an enemy without over-committing damage is a rather frivolous bit of micromanagement that doesn't need to be there. You're getting awfully buttmad about the lack of a basic QoL feature that's been in JRPGs since the late 80s.
>a rather frivolous bit of micromanagement that doesn't need to be there
Translation: I want games to be as mindless and automated as possible so I can get to the next cutscene ASAP
>QoL
Go back to fricking reddit with your language of casualization and homogenization, you moron.
>Translation: I want games to be as mindless and automated as possible so I can get to the next cutscene ASAP
Yeah, because clearly you can't just pile on mechanics in other areas of a combat system that don't lead to nonsensical shit like characters hitting thin air for no reason.
I wasn't filtered by it. I was filtered by how slow and boring the game was. The last thing I remember was beating the squid boss and losing interest after getting to the world map section after it. This was like 6 years ago.
>nonsensical shit like characters hitting thin air for no reason
The reason is that the enemy you told them to attack is already dead, you fricking dunce. This can be avoided by allocating attacks correctly. How is this so difficult for your brain to handle?
It isn't difficult, but it's not something that makes sense in a turn-based strategy game and isn't worth building tactics around. It's frivolous micromanagement. It's like making MP-restoring items a finite resource only found in treasure chests, but then making healing items and tent-like resting items dirt cheap. You don't gain nearly as much strategic benefit from that design philosophy as you think.
>You don't gain nearly as much strategic benefit from that design philosophy as you think.
It stop battles from ever being mindless. You don't just mash the attack button and wait for stuff to die, you always have to think. That alone has great value. The introduction of attack re-targeting to the genre was a pure casualization measure to cater to lazy morons like you. It has always been a mistake.
>You don't just mash the attack button and wait for stuff to die, you always have to think.
Come on, 8/10 times you still do exactly that. Especially when you're in a random battle where the enemies don't have specific weaknesses.
You're not even trying to make sincere arguments anymore, bored of you.
>enemy puts up a reflective shield that bounces physical attacks back onto you
>kill an enemy
>game auto-corrects your targeting to the guy with the reflecto shield
There, I just fixed your problem with GS's "old school" retarget handler.
If it's such a frivolous bit of micromanagement then why were you filtered by it?
>non-mindless gameplay?
Holy shit my sides this GS fanboy is a riot
>someone posts pic of game
>someone else who hasn't actually played that game says it's shit
>"why would you expect otherwise?"
have a nice day lmao
Mana Khemia is great. Has great gameplay. It has socialization though in its character quests.
The only downside is it's quite animeish and cutscene in the tutorial into sequence, but after that it's a great game
>Story and characters
>FF5
AHAHAHAHAH
I like this game don't get me wrong but the story is literally a early 90s shonen manga , it's flat as hell , tell me if you remember any notible moments in this game besides the faris' sea dragon dying/turning into a pheonix , galuf's death and gilgamesh battles
>tell me if you remember any notible moments in this game besides
Party discovering Faris is a girl
Galuf waking the party up by slapping them on the ass
Twig Ex-death hiding inside a party members shoe
Literally every moment spent playing FF5 is memorable
>Classic final fantasy
>story and characters
ok this is bait
It is what it is. They just keep fricking up both.
>no XI or XIV
>includes non-canon/retcon sequels and spinoffs instead
why are leftists like this
some people just don't jive with MMOs, it's a divisive genre and there's no sense in delving into it
They are mainline games and the "MMO" taboo is a non issue to play through them
sorry your eyes don't work
>focus is in the characters
which all have shit VA and dialogue. sorry your brain doesn't work
>Is there still a market for traditional RPGs with a focus on story and characters?
Isn't there a billion trails game already?
Yeah, moron. They still come out.
see dq11
Yes
Well, the problem is the characters and stories in those games have declined like crazy ever since Kondo stepped away from a creative role in the series.
idk what you're talking about it has been only uphill ever since cold steel ended
Kiseki is an extremely frustrating franchise to have liked. Combat has improved somewhat as things have gone on, not that that's particularly difficult with how simple Kiseki combat generally is, but frick me has the character writing gotten so so so much fricking worse as Cold Steel lurched onwards.
3d ones are cheap weebshit, not traditional.
your next capcom ESG funded breath of fire will have gender identities, drive impacts, and a battle hub with a gay black man with a womans head.
Dragon Quest seems to think so
>like 4 jobbed homies in a row gameplay
>Bravely Default 2 is bearable, even likeable until the bosses gain BP for daring to breathe in their general direction
I refuse to continue until someone makes a mod that removes that stupid ass counter, it turns every boss battle into a damage race
Yes, there's a big market for that still, even if big companies aren't do so anymore. In particular, lots of h-games have that approach and they do well financially.
There is still room for quality JRPGs out there.
>Enter thread
>Every post is bait
so this is what Ganker is like these days, huh
the final fantasy fanbase proves there's a massive untapped market of games catering to the mentally ill
FF is now focused on action
Just look at all the remasters and remakes of them that have come out and on the table to soon.
The genre isn't dead, though it sure felt like it between the late 2000's through most of the 2010's when every developer or publisher just kind of decided nobody wanted them anymore.
Xenoblade 1 had to be dragged out of jp/eu kicking and screaming because NoA thought nobody would be interested, now the series and monolith is nintendo's star child of the jrpg genre.