It's a logical consequence of "hyper real graphics." When games were lower rez and more game-y, it was easy to tell what could be interacted with and what couldn't. When everything is SO REAL, in both the foreground and the background, devs do need some way to tell players "you can use this" or experimentation will quickly lead to frustration. The yellow paint is a shitty looking answer, but detractors better be ready to provide another solution.
This. It's an unfortunate consequence of pursuing realism while still limiting what the player can do. In an ideal game there would be dozens of realistic ways to scale a wall just like in reality, but in lazy ass video game environments there's only one solution so that solution needs to be highlighted or else players will inevitably feel frustrated because the game is wasting their time.
This. It's an unfortunate consequence of pursuing realism while still limiting what the player can do. In an ideal game there would be dozens of realistic ways to scale a wall just like in reality, but in lazy ass video game environments there's only one solution so that solution needs to be highlighted or else players will inevitably feel frustrated because the game is wasting their time.
It's this but I would also add that it's probably something that play testers missed or couldn't find so they made it easier to see from the background. It's just an easy way to denote where the player should go next. If it wasn't there I guarantee these are the same type of chuckelfricks that would get pissed off because they ran around in circles for an hour not knowing where to go next.
That's fricking moronic. I'm playing through RE4R for the first time now and one of the first things I did was download the yellow paint removal mod and I have had 0 issues finding breakable crates and barrels. They have the same fricking models and even without the bright yellow "LOOK HERE moron" paint they are easy to pick out from the environment. Stop defending the dumbing down of games for morons.
Congrats, Yogi - you're smarter than the average bear. You're playing RE4R for the first time, but did you play RE4 first? Is RE4R your first ever video game? You have the mental capacity to tell which realistic items can be itneracted with and which cannot, but do you have the mental capacity to put yourself in the shoes of someone who does not share your lived experience?
In the original RE4, item pickups got walls of light around them. "Gameyness" was okay because the game wasn't hyper-real like things are now.
I don't mean these questions aggressively, either. Honestly, think about these things.
Glowing item pickups doesn't take away from the environmental design. I get what your'e saying but I disagree with it.
As someone in the industry
>devs didnt sit around and decide it for fun. I promise you it was the consequence of playtesting >you may "know" video game language but games are played by a wide range of people, including those with mental disabilities and sight issues >no, its not obvious ladders are climbable and crates are breakable. You underestimate how foreign gaming is to most. I've seen friends etc not even be able to tell when a cutscene has ended and they have control again. I can assure you the majority of people do need the paint
I guess my qeustion is, why are devs making non-gamers the target audience?
>I guess my qeustion is, why are devs making non-gamers the target audience?
The amount of "casual" gamers is much, much bigger than the core ones.
As game budgets balloon in size, you need the casuals to also buy your game so you can recoup costs and actually profit.
And you also want them to be able to finish it so they may eventually purchase sequels.
>And you also want them to be able to finish it so they may eventually purchase sequels.
Have any studies been done on this to show that even matters? npcs will buy anything whether they finish it or not, and at that point the devs have gotten their money. It doesn't matter if Joe McBob is too moronic to finish the game, you got his money already.
7 months ago
Anonymous
have a recent example, people who bought the harry potter game, ask a normieif he liked it, he will say "yes"
ask him if he finished it, he will say "no"
that's the goal here, to streamline a game in order to remove every frustrating aspect, a normie doesn't drop a game because he is bored, but because he was playing, maybe plan to play it, but something came out in his life, may it be a plan or non-planned event, then he will forget about the game, because it's streamlined, there's no element of surprise, no drive to finish it, he will never think "man this boss was hard, I need to go back and beat it" or "I can't wait to see what's the new region looks like" because he played more than 3 hours of the game, he saw everything, he knows it, so he drops it, it was like a fun ride, that will imprint a positive memory
so when a new game comes out, the trailer will play on the prequel's strength, and the normie will think "man that was cool, I'll buy it too"
7 months ago
Anonymous
normies eat up games like starfield, skyrim and fallout 4 because they arent challenging, you are a god that can change the world around you to your will, lore, setting, logic take a backseat to fun and it sells boatloads. Normies like simple power fantasies with just enough story and aesthetics to keep the game together, they will spam right trigger for 300 hours because they keep winning, they almost never have trouble with a boss and when they do it's rare enough that they think about it as a memorable encounter. The enjoyment comes from the power fantasy, not from the struggle, normies will 100% drop a game with a negative impression if they keep dying because they fricked up their build, or missed a vital piece of information like a boss' gimmick so they get mad when they can't right trigger the enemy to death.
On the complete opposite end to bethesda games you have underrail, a game where messing up your build pretty much guarantees you wont be able to proceed in the normal difficutly, which only a hardcore gamer would even attempt to play, since there's only enjoyment at the very end of the encounters, not the encounters themselves.
>I guess my qeustion is, why are devs making non-gamers the target audience?
Money, obviously.
When you play RE4R, you intend to finish it. The moron who buys it and drops it before they even get to the first yellow paint paid the same money as you. Devs (publishers, if you wish to be pedantic about it) want more of the latter to pay for the game, even if those people don't experience most of the game, and regardless of how much it bothers the people who buy it with the intent to finish it.
Isn't it the marketing team's job to sell the game to normies, not the designer's? The designer should just design the game they want, and the marketers should figure out how to sell it. Making the designers dumb it down to sell more copies is just a failure of marketing.
7 months ago
Anonymous
it's an everybody's job because even if the marketing team can sell someone something if the moron who bought it complains enough the game can still suffer
7 months ago
Anonymous
>waaah i am too moronic to break the barrels
Everyone would just tell them they suck and to get good, there's no way that would affect the sales. What do people where you work think of Fromsoft's success, because they are the antithesis of a lot of this shit.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Are you talking about the Fromsoft games that have big blinking white lights for everything you can pick up off the ground or the other ones that were made before you were born
7 months ago
Anonymous
You keep making this argument, it's fricking moronic. Pickups aren't the same thing as interactible parts of the fricking environment.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I think he's talking about the Fromsoft that doesn't paint ladders and crates and everything important in yellow.
7 months ago
Anonymous
that would require marketers to do actual work, anyone with that kind of job is just dead weight and the management of the company just has to go along with it cause thats how companies do
>put yourself in the shoes of someone who does not share your lived experience?
why should I? This is our hobby, no one asks for a simplified version of Moby Dick, the majority should never bend over to help minorities.
>the majority should never bend over to help minorities.
What you fail to, or refuse to, accept is that you ARE the minority. This is why some empathy is a powerful tool. I'm not telling you to be a bleeding heart, I'm telling you "know thy enemy."
>devs didnt sit around and decide it for fun. I promise you it was the consequence of playtesting >you may "know" video game language but games are played by a wide range of people, including those with mental disabilities and sight issues >no, its not obvious ladders are climbable and crates are breakable. You underestimate how foreign gaming is to most. I've seen friends etc not even be able to tell when a cutscene has ended and they have control again. I can assure you the majority of people do need the paint
>hey bro lets just ruin everything because a few people are moronic
leftists are genuinely cancer
their brains cannot think logically, only based on empathy or feelings
no other way to explain why they can think this is ok
in which case they should not be allowed to vote or influence anything
its exactly how they think and act so its relevant
im sick of watching things get destroyed or hamstrung because it would "improve the lives" for a tiny number of people
I don't even know how this helps people with disabilities and honestly if you're so obsessed with helping them then make a disabled people options menu solely for people with disabilities
but nah you're not going to bother because it's too much work
It has nothing to do with leftists and everything to do with sales figures you deluded ape. In some cases it might even be "illegal" to have your game not be accessible depending on where you live. I'm just waiting for the ADA lawsuits on video game dogshit to absolutely ruin gaming even further tbh.
This. In fact what ever happening to just letting the player figure it out? We get it the playtesters said that spending 5.2 seconds in an area is too long we gotta throw them a bone. Frick that Look around use your brain run down the list.
>devs didnt sit around and decide it for fun. I promise you it was the consequence of playtesting >you may "know" video game language but games are played by a wide range of people, including those with mental disabilities and sight issues >no, its not obvious ladders are climbable and crates are breakable. You underestimate how foreign gaming is to most. I've seen friends etc not even be able to tell when a cutscene has ended and they have control again. I can assure you the majority of people do need the paint
>As someone in the industry
Post your last released game's revenue. Whoever works on the highest is the correct one.
>but games are played by a wide range of people, including those with mental disabilities and sight issues >You underestimate how foreign gaming is to most. I've seen friends etc not even be able to tell when a cutscene has ended and they have control again. I can assure you the majority of people do need the paint
Then they can get good or frick off, no hobby should cater to its lowest common denominator.
In that case its fine to have yellow paint up to, like, the village fight. Honestly I can justify it there especially because some of the areas are a bit busy and it isnt immediately clear that the freestanding crates are the only interactable ones and the little white crates with piles of hay or wagon wheels on them cannot be interacted with. But why the frick are the ladders still yellow on the island? You cant seriously expect the average moron to have beat verdugo.
more like Devs play each others games and take what works. Uncharted and the last of us popularised this shit and now other third person action games are following suit. fundamentally the game should focus on the action, locating a ladder is not in the skill set nor fun factor of the game
The solution to a person being unable to do a thing is not to just do it for them though. They need to learn, and if they can't learn they need to fail, and if they can't perservere through failure they need to stop. It's that simple, and this goes for literally all things in life.
Yes and no. It's mostly poor art design. You can cleverly guide players into the right direction, and highlight important things with lighting alone.
Dark = Nothing here, son. Light = Look at this shit.
Good level/art design barely exists, because of the curse of minimaps and waypoint markers.
>You can cleverly guide players into the right direction, and highlight important things with lighting alone. >Dark = Nothing here, son. Light = Look at this shit.
That requires a functional lighting engine, the game is instead built in a pretty lighting engine. Functional lighting does not work in unreal 4+.
exactly, that's why most uses outside of it look shit. florescent paint randomly coating terrain doesn't look good outside stylized environments.
good game design would be nudging players in the right direction with sensory clues that fit the setting and aren't insulting to the player's intelligence.
I thought these realistic graphics are there for players to immerse themselves better, but throwing yellow paint on everything immediately destroys said immersion. Maybe don't make it super duper realistic if you aren't able to deal with that dilemma in a better way.
design your levels well and you won't have issues understanding what's interactable and what's not.
As someone in the industry
>devs didnt sit around and decide it for fun. I promise you it was the consequence of playtesting >you may "know" video game language but games are played by a wide range of people, including those with mental disabilities and sight issues >no, its not obvious ladders are climbable and crates are breakable. You underestimate how foreign gaming is to most. I've seen friends etc not even be able to tell when a cutscene has ended and they have control again. I can assure you the majority of people do need the paint
i just wish it was a toggle, we already have accessibility, why not put a "highlight interactable objects" as well?
>another solution
how about a subtle highlight or "climb" popup at the bottom of the screen when your character gets close
yellow paint highlighter is cringe
>devs didnt sit around and decide it for fun. I promise you it was the consequence of playtesting >you may "know" video game language but games are played by a wide range of people, including those with mental disabilities and sight issues >no, its not obvious ladders are climbable and crates are breakable. You underestimate how foreign gaming is to most. I've seen friends etc not even be able to tell when a cutscene has ended and they have control again. I can assure you the majority of people do need the paint
Hmm I sure wish there was some kind of obvious compromise here.
Not as useful of a comparison as you may think. Running is the central aspect of Mirror's Edge. It makea sense to offer a tweak option. Ladders and crates arent the central gameplay of RE4. They are a means to an end, and that's partially why they've been simplified, and why they didn't decide to waste resources with the ability to turn it onn and off.
Would it be better if you could turn it off? Probably. But devs can't do everything. There are time and money constraints. And again, you're asking them to perfect ladders in a zombie shooying game
>Would it be better if you could turn it off? Probably. But devs can't do everything.
What a moronic excuse, devs already half-ass everything nowadays. If some modder quickly did it for free then the they also certainly could. In a patch, at least.
it took a guy less than a week to strip out a majority of the yellow crap in his spare time, and that's without having access to everything the devs themselves would. it's a simple job and there's no excuse for not making it a toggleable accessibility option.
>Would it be better if you could turn it off? Probably. But devs can't do everything.
the paint is literally an object texture, give it its own class, tie said class in the list that serves as option menu and have the option to set it to 1 or 0
this shit takes less than 5 minutes to do >And again, you're asking them to perfect ladders in a zombie shooying game
brushing aside an element that could serve as a means of escape in a game centered around survival, surprises and space awareness just show how badly managed this whole process is
Yellow paint interactable objects isn't the cause of the problem, it's just a symptom of the new way to develop a game where the designers don't put any though into the world and the levels.
it's just an amusing irony, some people put yellow paint on the pedestal of necessity due to the evolution of graphics where we can't have objects stand out on their own because it's "too video gamey and unrealistic", and the solution is to put something aimed directly at the player
Not all games use a shader and it's something they need to decide from day 1. What you don't understand is without the neon paint most of this modern slop would be unplayable because it's a guessing game which magical ledge is the one they want you to use and which one is an invisible wall.
>games have such "hyper real graphics" that they can't even use lightning or texture noise in a clever way to highlight an important or interactable item
we've regressed to Atari level design, we replaced 2D square white blocks representing walls to gray/brown 3D blocks representing walls. >devs do need some way to tell players "you can use this" or experimentation will quickly lead to frustration
and they have to deal with more and more stupid people who don't experiment, they don't even finish games when they are 10 hours long >The yellow paint is a shitty looking answer, but detractors better be ready to provide another solution.
you are absolutely right because the only solution is to have the team make the levels the same that make the assets
how about.....don't place a ladder in the environment unless it's interactable? when do you find a ladder in Dark Souls that doesn't function as a ladder? did it require a highlight? frick no. don't place un-interactable shit everywhere. this is a consequence of all the visual clutter like you said but the simple solution is, stop placing bullshit everywhere and you won't have to slap giant "THIS IS A REAL LADDER" stickers on your ladders
A button prompt when you're near would suffice. I don't need to see alien cum from the other end of a linear corridor.
Basically yeah, game graphics got good but I remember dreaming as a kid when enemy ai got better and everything was more interactive but it's basically gone backwards, no games even attempted to carry stuff like red faction forward for example. It's all about the VA -mocap cartel making every game 75% cutscenes
More like due to convoluted obtuse game mechanics only some things aren't climbable. In that screenshot you can guarantee the fence is basically an unclimbable invisible wall and I've seen lots of modern examples where there are obviously climbable rocks but they don't want you to climb THOSE rocks, they want you to climb THESE rocks. Not to mention many devs have lost the talent of level design where the level naturally leads you to where they want you to go without having to spray paint everything with neon.
moronic
its real simple
if a thing is there it should be interactable with or serve a purpose
if it isn't, IT SHOULDN'T BE THERE
its so fricking simple. nobody needs to ever see a single ladder if they can't do anything with it
>The yellow paint is a shitty looking answer, but detractors better be ready to provide another solution
have a color palette in your game that isn't washed out to shit. if you take a screenshot of the game and everything blends together into a washed out grey pulp instead of seeing blacks whites and grays contrasting each other, then you're doing something wrong
Honestly, plenty of games have gotten around the same issue without seeming straight up condescending, like having important/interactable items glow, shimmer, or otherwise differentiate themselves from the background when the player's near them.
Modern gamers are moronic graphicsgays who will throw a fit if there's not worthless screenshot fodder lying around everywhere. Look at how they'll cry about how anything that's not on the very cutting edge is "literally PS2 graphics"
>Modern gamers are moronic graphicsgays
It's always been like that. I remember it was like that as far back as a kid when DKC came out. I remember the rumors of some friend of a friend had a Neogeo and whether they were lying or not because of how legendary it supposedly was.
>quickly lead to frustration
So it is strictly a personal problem for morons? Got it. As always, low IQ, uneducated filth continue to drag everyone else down with them.
Ok Anon, serious question. Did you get lost when watching Dora the Explorer and couldn't point out where the mountain was before the mouse cursor clicked it? You fricking braindead invalid. >BUT MUH YELLOW PAINT IS NEEDED BECAUSE MUH REALISM
How can we show this ladder is climbable and others aren't... >A: Paint them in garish yellow so toddlers watching Dora can play along... despite it being an M rated game >B: make them stand out by slightly changing the colors like making them lighter so they stand out and breaking ladders that can't be climbed so it's clear you can't climb them
Look man, we aren't talking about E rated games. We're talking games supposedly made for people over the age of 16. Stop being moronic or stick to Paw Patrol World like the child you are.
The post clearly admitted that the yellow paint was a shitty solution. Next time you call someone braindead maybe don't reveal you can't read. Fricking moron.
This, also we need to stop dumbing games down for the lowest common denominator.
Why are games rated M for Mature so dumbed down it's more like playing an interactive version of Dora the Explorer.
CAN YOU SEE THE LADDER? >Blatantly yellow ladder on screen
YOU DID IT YOU FOUND THE LADDER
How the hell does Bing Bing Wahoo and fricking Sonic require more competence and intelligence to navigate their levels?
When would a ladder ever be unusable? If it's not usable then it shouldn't be included in the scene, or should be very obviously unusable like a broken ladder, or a ladder fallen on the grown. Real life doesn't have spray paint on objects and it looks more real than "hyper real graphics." It's a bandaid over bad design.
Yeah this unfortunately. Image that same ladder but without the paint (not hard to do unless you're genuinely moronic), I can imagine a LOT of players would simply miss it due to being the same color as the bricks, walk around in frustration for 20 minutes and give up.
>Image that same ladder but without the paint (not hard to do unless you're genuinely moronic), I can imagine a LOT of players would simply miss it due to being the same color as the bricks, walk around in frustration for 20 minutes and give up.
iirc there's a HUD prompt when you're within 5 meters of it, the yellow paint is just for idiots that somehow can't play linear games properly
>I can imagine a LOT of players would simply miss it due to being the same color as the bricks
Except it's at the end of a small narrow path and an enemy jumps down from the top (the one in that image). Did you even play the DLC?
Why the frick do you vote if you aren't a politician? Why do you complain about the quality of food when you're not a chef? Why do you hate NTR when you don't even have a GF?
It's because you're allowed to have opinions anon and so am I.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Why the frick do you vote if you aren't a politician?
Because I familiarize myself with the issues I care about and that affect my life. What a stupid fricking comparison. >It's because you're allowed to have opinions anon and so am I.
No, it's because you're a mentally ill shitposter.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Hmmmm today I will start fights with anons on a thread about putting paint on ladders in a video game
You can't be serious.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Today I will go into threads for games I haven't played to talk about my opinions on their design choices
Yup, that's Ganker.
>The yellow paint is a shitty looking answer, but detractors better be ready to provide another solution.
Stop making games with greyscale color pallets? It's not something that's novel in real life, you could very easily have simply made a ladder that isn't the exact same rust brown and fog grey as every other thing in the environment. >B-BUH SPANISH VILLAGE IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE
Then use a different color for the building's stonework or simply have the ladder painted by default instead of this moronic splash to imply they were going to work on it.
Just do what fromsoft does, just put a little lantern or something at the foot of the ladder. Like, what's the point of going for muh immersive realistic graphics of you have to ruin that immersion by smearing moron paint everywhere.
>but detractors better be ready to provide another solution.
Stop trying to do moronic realistic graphics.
Stop having moronic details that have no gameplay implications that will confuse the player
in every Valve's Developer Commentary they explain the player has the intelligence of a American citizen and need visual cues every step: giant A - B in walls, in Portal, walls need orange and blue lines,etc
This. New tomb raider games did the same though capcom should use white instead of a strong YELLOW, but the yellow is imported from RE7 but in that game made sense because of the yellow motifs of the game
fpbp. For a perfect example, compare and contrast the first two Dead Rising games with Dead Rising 3. All 3 litter the stages with interactable props, but it's much harder to filter the signal (interactable props) from the noise (clutter baked into the level geometry as set dressing, or higher resolution textures competing with interactable objects for visual attention) in Dead Rising 3.
> people actually think this response is smart
fricking christ just put a cursor or popup over intractable shit stop being scared of your video games being fricking video games
>better be ready to provide another solution
Here's a ladder in TLOU2. It's in a dark place, so if it drawn normally the player could potentially overlook it. ND's solution is to make it basically ignore the shading model (you can see here it's much brighter than it should be) and then also make it yellow. It's not subtle, but it works well. It's almost impossible to miss yet doesn't feel outrageously signposted.
RE4 attempted to make the highlight diegetic (the ladder is yellow because someone spilled paint on it instead of just happening to be yellow) but it's backfired horribly.
By trying to make it natural, they've just drawn more attention to it.
Ideally aim to have good enough visual direction and level design that you don't need to highlight things. But if you have to highlight them, then just highlight them. Shade them differently, or set some consistent rules that the player can learn (maybe metal ladders are climbable, wooden ones are decorative).
Don't try to think up a funny in-universe reason for it.
only moronic and overly stimulated zoomers need that
look at dark souls
that game doesn't need that shit and doesn't hold your hand yet it is considered one of the greatest games ever made. meanwhile this remake won't be even remembered.
Video games have solved this before, its called context senstive buttons. >walk up to ladder, if you can climb it, press button to climb, if you can't you move on
Almost correct it's more about "with so many objects in the scene you can miss the forest for the trees"
sensory overload will make you ignore important objects like a ladder.
But personally I am more the fan of the "guiding light" approach. Either a prominent light in the scene shining on the object or the object itself receiving a light glow as you are close to it.
I haven't played the game so maybe I'm wrong, but from that picture it seems they were already trying to draw the player's attention.
It's a different color (brown-ish instead of grey like the walls).
The ladder seems to be placed at the end of a corridor, or maybe inside an alcove..?
There's an enemy right next to it. The player shoots at the enemy, notices the ladder.
But clearly some playtester was stuck there for hours, so they made the ladder fluorescent.
You're looking at the single case but it's more likely that someone had that problem during RE7 playtesting (first REngine game iirc) and they're just reusing assets.
A)
Usually they'll use yellow or whatever marker to indicated that any given ledge is climbable, not just ladders. In fact I've never seen it used for just ladders.
B) >obviously a ladder is climbable >he doesn't know
Why didn't they just make the ladder a brightly colored ladder? The paint is moronic.
Crazy idea but does anyone even find climbing ladders fun? I can't think of a single game other than Death Stranding where it was fun to climb ladders.
Of course. They were dumb enough to buy them in the first place.
/thread
console Black folk have ruined gaming making them the lowest common denominator to target
console players are that dumb
curiously enough, these moron-friendly features were absent from vidya when the games were produced for consoles only.
It's only after the publishers started catering to pc gaymers that we've been experiencing this absolute cringe
never change, thirdies, never change
Good game design masks mechanics into the world in believable diegetic ways so the player's attention isn't drawn to them. Painting everything yellow does the exact oppossite, and OP is a fricking gaygor for looking for Twitter screencaps to find sub-IQ bait.
It's bad game design because its looks too fricking obvious, like said, good game design is to make them so believable and so diagetic that you don't even notice it, but you're still lead to it the same.
It's a logical consequence of "hyper real graphics." When games were lower rez and more game-y, it was easy to tell what could be interacted with and what couldn't. When everything is SO REAL, in both the foreground and the background, devs do need some way to tell players "you can use this" or experimentation will quickly lead to frustration. The yellow paint is a shitty looking answer, but detractors better be ready to provide another solution.
has some points but is overall moronic. the problem isn't "muh hyper reel gwafix" (that's as much of a design choice as low poly 3d/pixelshit is a design choice), the problem is that the actual design is fricking terrible to begin with, and feels more like a tacked-on solution that only makes it stick out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the world. it's unrelated to the problem in the OP. you might a well say that the solution to make a top down tactics jrpg-slash-political thriller dating visual novel game feel more compelling and real is to make the graphics photoreal and use extremely detailed 3d models, its a fricking disingenuous solution.
People get hung up on it but with high fidelity graphics identifying interactable objects during action sequences can and will be harder, which works in detriment of the gameplay experience.
Is just that autists forgot that in the original RE4 every interactable object looked like the drawer that would open in a scene in an old Tom and Jerry cartoon.
yes. other option would be to have arrow or have the usable item glow like jesus. using colored landmarks is more subtle and fits most games better.
it's just that modern graphics make it hard to know which of the 1000 objects on screen are actually any use. on older simpler looking games you basically only had the items that you can interact with and everything was just flat. now you have 1000 items on screen and it's more like finding needle from pile hay without any indicators, which is not fun.
Even BETTER game design would be showing it happen by having an enemy use the ladders or break crates early on, and then expect the player to not forget what happened 15 minutes ago.
This. Also, a simple camera pan to what you are suppose to look for. It really doesn't make sense since you are infiltrating a place that many people died in so paint makes it feel like you are just following someone else's path like they knew you would follow after then and happened to paint the area to get there which really doesn't make sense based on the story.
>simple camera pan to what you are suppose to look for
Thank god you're not a dev because I hate that shit. So easy to miss the panning or not know what specifically you're supposed to be focused on.
I don't think you realise how high the bounce rate is for most games. Most people have full time jobs and families,l. They like a challenge from games but the SECOND they feel frustration the game is dropped. The average casual player is going to tolerate feeling lost for 5 mins tops before they drop the game and move onto something else.
Also, RE is a zombie shooting game, not a wall-climbing sim. There is nothing wrong with simplifying a peripheral feature. The benefits outweigh the potential downside of bouncing casual players because of a fricking ladder.
As long as devs keep pushing for higher fidelity graphics, this is kind of unfortunately necessary. Plus there's a lot of morons playing vidya today who NEED the guidance to not get lost.
It's one of the neatest things about BOTW/TOTK, since they actually made essentially everything in the world interactible.
Contrasting interactive elements with the background has quite literally always been a part of good art direction, and no amount of goalpost shifting about le subtlety you try to cook up after the fact can change that
>Contrasting interactive elements with the background has quite literally always been a part of good art direction
There are other ways to do this than just making it look like someone splattered yellow paint around a level.
Maybe, but I also lived through the era of just putting a blinking objective marker or a line on the ground from yourself to the object, so even if this is unsightly it's not the end of the world. I don't understand why the people this bent out of shape about it aren't just playing like AD&D or MUDs
There are articles that explain how Game Design, with lots of examples, but they are longer that 140 characters. That twitter screenshot never explain the name of the game or why yellow paint in a ladder is bad idea
If you learn about game design from articles, or worse, from a university, instead of buy playing fricking video games, you are part of the problem and should never make a game in your life.
No, but just think of the HL2 playtesters and now extrapolate the realization to every game ever made, even i get this. >make game >players cant figure out how to switch weapons >the instructions are on the download link
I can see putting paint on boxes cause most games don't put shit in boxes anymore like RE does but the ladder is so disgusting looking cause it makes jack shit sense to paint it yellow for gameplay and lore reasons. If a player sees a ladder that leads somewhere, they're gonna try and climb it, yellow paint or not.
>If a player sees a ladder that leads somewhere, they're gonna try and climb it, yellow paint or not.
This statement is going to confuse and enrage you: no, that is not what a player IS going to do.
A player MIGHT do that, but the type of player who WOULD do that is becoming a smaller and smaller minority.
>A player MIGHT do that, but the type of player who WOULD do that is becoming a smaller and smaller minority.
Then you might as well stop now and start making walking sims for amoebas if you're that ready to dumb shit down.
>totalizing is...le GOOD
You are too young to remember the PS360 era but this is a hell of a lot better than the sort of things they did to try and casualize games back then. Action games with literally no fail state existed
I get that every game is someone's first video game, but that's no excuse for dumbing things down for everyone else. You sound like you work in the Western game industry. How do the suits where you work take the success of Fromsoft games?
I don't work in the industry and I don't LIKE the situation either, I am merely noticing and putting words to the reasoning. It makes me upset too, but I have yet to come up with a better solution for games that insist on having hyper-real graphics. >How do the suits where you work take the success of Fromsoft games?
To its credit, FROM is right up there with old-Valve in terms of masterfully guiding the player's eyes to important things with subtle-but-omnipresent features. They're great at creating a sense of "you are here, the thing is there, and the path between you and the thing is right in front of you."
It doesn't confuse nor anger me. It makes me sad.
My apologies for not including that as an outcome, but you're right that it's a perfectly reasonable one.
I get that every game is someone's first video game, but that's no excuse for dumbing things down for everyone else. You sound like you work in the Western game industry. How do the suits where you work take the success of Fromsoft games?
Too fricking bad. You were filtered by a ladder in a video game. That says far more about your terrifyingly low intelligence, than it does about "good" game design, which for that matter, does not exist. Who is the supposed authority that decided what constitutes good game design? Because all of these "tripul Ayyy" studios parrot the phrase "good game design" and the games are boring fricking trash.
It's resident evil, one of the bestselling video game franchises of all time. It is one of most recognisable zombie franchises, daily drawing in folks who watch the shows and movies and want to try the game. Deapite this, you are shocked that it has a casual audience.
I want a parody game where you have to find buckets of yellow paint and paint the objects before you can interact with them. And you have to wait for the paint to dry before you can interact with the object.
We need a glowing arrow hard-textured onto the ground pointing the exact path players need to take to go forward. Better yet just remove the controls all together and put it on rails.
Really they should just add a "B) skip exploration" button which you can press any time you get stuck, I mean yellow paintjob already skips needing to check around your surroundings, that way people who can't use analog sticks can also enjoy the game too
this reminds me of deus ex hr and splinter cell blacklist rewarding the player with xp for "exploration" when it's just another obvious linear path that's not hard to miss.
Just finding the alt path is enough of a reward, you don't need a head pat confirmation for finding the alternate path. Now it's worse, they just paint everything
He would probably explain if you asked but you're a b***h breasts little coward that will only talk about him behind his back. This is one of many reasons the world will move on without you
>he would probably explain
lmao >b***h breasts little coward
like the people who quote tweet and can't even present an argument because they're terrified of getting roasted?
lol. its not my job to hand hold people
the world acts like this not because its progressive, but because its a race to the bottom
the lowest common denominator wins in a world of empathy
but you're too stupid to realize that yet
>>he would probably explain >lmao
You'd be surprised how far you can get if you don't go into every human interaction with a huge chip on your shoulder and treat conversation like something that can be Won or Lost
I'm not an x homosexual, that seems more like your thing
>I-I'd like to give this guy a piece of my mind (at my convenience)
yeah it's funny how its us who have to act gracious and understanding when its the original guy who made an idiotic tweet with no argument
I'd rather look at the world through an objective lens than an emotional one every single day
Buddy, there is quite literally no such thing as objectivity, only consensus. There are of course, degrees of consensus, but every single facet of the universe is filtered through the subjective lens of every living thing that has ever experienced it
7 months ago
Anonymous
this is objectively false
subjective lenses don't decide how the world exists
7 months ago
Anonymous
every single living thing *only* has a subjective lens with which to view the world. There might be some all powerful entity that is perfectly able to understand the world with complete objectivity but it certainly isn't fricking you lmao
7 months ago
Anonymous
that isn't proof objectivity doesn't exist, just that it's impossible to be perfectly objective
you're missing the point though if thats your argument
its far better to attempt to be as objective as possible then to abandon objectivity completely
7 months ago
Anonymous
subjectivity literally decides how humans live in the world.... what the hell are you saying
7 months ago
Anonymous
lol what the frick are you saying
you think humans seeing something makes it exist
yeah so basically because some dev locked the story behind some hard to find thing it means everything has to be super obvious
this is such a perfect example of how cancerous this mindset is. and this tweet went viral as well
actually insane
It's in a cave tunnel, which you must progress through to get to the 8th gym in Blackthorn City.
It's not only visible from the main path, but there's an NPC who literally says to you that the item over there is the Waterfall HM and REFUSES TO LET YOU PASS until you go back to get it. If that's not telegraphed, I don't know what is.
>Treating the remake like the original games
I never had trouble finding it as a dumb 8 years old but the old man only halts your movement on the remakes.
The moron who claimed it was hidden referred to HG/SS specifically, where it was mandatory but also forced. In G/S/C it wasn't forced, but it also wasn't mandatory.
this is untrue btw
in the original gold/silver it's missable but the game doesn't require it at any point, in hgss the npc literally will not let you leave the cave until you do baby's first ice puzzle and get the HM
In Red and Blue, you can't get past Fuschia without getting Strength and Surf. Both involve the Safari Zone. Whatever happened to exploring for the sake of exploring?
I'm too old to care about realism, videogames are videogames, the issue is that Black person will say this and then claim we need top graphic tech for realism for sales reasons
The paint should've been toggleable at the very least, or at least have it look like blood stains or some shit. I also like how the DLC is the only time they ever think to use it in a puzzle or anything.
Wizardry is an example of a bad design that lasted far too long. It's deathly allergic to any QOL because any time any developer tries to improve on it players who wanted more Wizardry hate it, and everyone else doesn't want it because it's too much like Wizardry. Blobbers deserved to move away from that formula because holy shit it's antiquated.
The only reason I don't play blobbers is because they're blobbers. I don't mind (and even enjoy) autistic mechanics and <anything> management, but still using static portraits to represent the characters is just lazy.
point and click games used to get raked over the coals for having magic pixel hunts and as a consequence every game ever since has had to bend over backwards for people who don't want to spend more than 2 seconds trying to figure out what to do next
It's fine game design really. It's just enough to tell you what you can interact with and despite what some people might say, it honestly really isn't that distracting. It does it's job by guiding the player along the game and that's a good thing.
All that's needed is proper contrast between interactable objects and the environment. There's an infinite amount of ways to do it. Yeah the yellow paint does the job but it's just kinda cliché
cliche how? Only Resident Evil does that and they've only been doing it since RE7 Something cliche would be highlighting the ladder with a glowing sprite or something like that
Ways to do it in order from best to worst: >Have an in-universe munitions or shipping company, put their logo on the boxes so you know there's ammo inside at a glance >At some point put an ammo box in the player's path so they have to break it to get out of a room or something, then they know that boxes are breakable and can have ammo >Make the breakable boxes a lighter shade so they stand out from the environment subtly >Put a thin outline around breakable objects >Cover objects in bright yellow paint
would it really be that hard to just have an option to toggle it off? having to color it in brightly colored paint/tape just shows they couldnt design the game in a way to guide the player more subtly and contrast the interactable environment with the interactable
It wouldn't do shit, game devs would still design the whole game with it in mind.
It's like being able to turn off the magical quest compass in skyrim, you can do it but the game isn't designed for it being turned off
In the case of RE though it was literally never needed, you can find this stuff just as easily without it, it's just an "accessibility" feature for idiots.
No because its like this because games are made by shitty level designers. The neon paint is a crutch and like most modern media, they assume the players are on drugs, alcohol or both.
>One singular game journo can't find the only interactable in a room >Makes an article about how shit the game is >Now every player in every game has to suffer with the curse of the dev cum.
Old RE games needed that feature because we were wasting time clicking walls for a secret item or something. New games seems intuitive enough without it.
To be fair moving your cursor until the icon changes is a lot faster and easier than hoofing around a 25 square meter room looking for the path forward when the room is designed such that it technically had 6 exits but 5 of them are conveniently behind rubble that you can't remove, and 1 of them is behind rubble that you can remove with a lever on the other side of said room. Also the lever is in the dark. But didn't you have fun walking around this room that the studio spent 3 months creating?
some shit is literally impossible to find in f1 without looking it up, I had to look up basic things like "how do you sleep in a bed, how do you heal crippled limbs, how do you do xyz" and then be met with an answer that either didnt make sense to me, or only made sense after I was already familiar with the mechanics, granted I played the new ones first, but it doesn't detract from the obtuse mechanics
>the doctor can't see you until morning comes, 8 am
Well ok, guess I'll sleep through the night in one of these beds... except I can't seem to, in fact I don't think you can sleep in this game >to pass the time you have to open the map, click on the clock
>I have a broken limb, I'll get the medic to fix it >"you're fine" >to fix a broken limb you have to use the medic skill until it gets fixed
these are things that may seem obvious once you've played enough, but if it's your first time playing a GURPS type game, you will have no clue what's going on or how to approach challenges,
F2 addressed a lot of the issues F1 had, not just the bugs and glitches, but a lot of the gameplay related challenges which made traversing california much easier. And by the time you play f2 you're already aware of the game design philosophy you need to keep in mind in order to navigate the world.
F1 and 2 however were designed when games were almost exclusivly played by nerds, so its not fair to compare a mass market game (that can be played on your phone now) with a computer (niche) game (niche-niche) for dnd nerds that played gurps systems (niche x3)
My least favourite thing in F1 is that you get told off very early in the game for trying to steal things (from the doctor in shady sands) but you're totally expected to just grab most items you see from there onwards
it almost always happens as a consequence of playtesters not being able to get past certain parts, i didnt like it at first but eventually I grew to appreciate not wasting time trying to click everything to see what was interactive and what wasn't, especially with crates.
I would not call it "good game design", but it's not bad, also sometimes it's not yellow paint, but blood or grime
It's good game design to have something to indicate what you can interact with, but there has to be some way that does it without sacrificing the game's visual style. It'd be fine when the other RE remakes did it because the games took place in cities, where it'd make sense that some shit would be marked with yellow paint and yellow caution tape and shit like that, but some bumfrick town and ancient castles have no reason to have it and very obviously stand out because it's out of place and distracting, not because it's good game design. If all games put a giant blinking red arrow where you had to go, people would hate it even if it's technically a good idea to indicate where you are supposed to go.
Good level design doesn't need a blinking arrow because it naturally leads you around. Disneyland doesn't need a blinking arrow to help you get from land to land.
>the majority should never bend over to help minorities.
anon look at the number of likes on that tweet. YOU are the minority.
the moby dick movie with Pat Stew is how most normies think about moby dick
>but games are played by a wide range of people, including those with mental disabilities and sight issues >You underestimate how foreign gaming is to most. I've seen friends etc not even be able to tell when a cutscene has ended and they have control again. I can assure you the majority of people do need the paint
Then they can get good or frick off, no hobby should cater to its lowest common denominator.
stupid take, games are not made just to be played, theyre made to be sold. otherwise they wouldnt have remade 4 at all, theyd just say get good and play the og game
This one was so bad I took a screenshot.
when you see these obvious ones 100% of the time i guarantee you the reason why is >qa kept getting stuck in this part
>games are not made just to be played, theyre made to be sold
and if they're not good, I won't buy them. >"hurr but everyone will just chase normie money!"
that's like saying McDonald's will drive quality restaurants out of business. customers like myself will always be willing to pay slightly more for higher quality, and there will always be people willing to work a little bit harder to appeal to that niche audience.
so the people who make slop are irrelevant to me, and anyone who likes quality games. the idea that my standards have to be compromised in order to enjoy products that aren't aimed at me is ludicrous. if capcom makes shit now there are plenty of other devs that I'll buy from instead.
>and if they're not good, I won't buy them.
Don't misunderstand me anon, I agree. I don't purchase games I don't want to support for the same reason I don't buy mcdonalds, they're shit.
I would much rather buy food from a local eatery than go and get processed shit. The price is usually lower than a restaurant and the meals are served with care by the owner instead of some wagie, just like AAA games, you can practically taste the love they put into their craft. Indie games are much much better nowadays than AAA because normies don't appreciate the love put into games, so they stop putting it in; of course you have exceptions with devs who genuinely care about their games like maybe Fromsoft, but it's usually the small studios.
I personally prefer indie games because they give me the same vibe old games give off, when it was nerds making games for nerds so they put a lot of care into making a game they themselves wanted to play, instead of ticking boxes off.
This is the part where you have to go into the lab area with the butterfly right? I could imagine people getting confused there since you are running back through the place you cleared as Leon, but that area did not exist in Leon's run.
But Ada also says something about going down below or something which should have been enough of a hint.
it is because of a multitude of reasons
first and foremost detail in levels is so sense nowadays that interactable items and background items blend together seemlessly so its not as easy to discern what i can interact with as with games 20 years ago
secondly you can quickly discern where to go and what to do without GUESSING which items in the background are interactable and important since if we assume everything is interactable, it quickly becomes frustrating if we cant find the one interactable thing in the clutter of background items, specially since most games do not make random items interactable.
there are a lot of other reasons why this is good game design
The question that you are asking is "is it elegant to do it this way?" no because most of the time the coloring makes no sense in the game world.
Sounds pretty annoying tbh, RE4's professional mode challenge puts all of it's emphasis on the combat, removing the paint just adds a pointless annoyance onto the run
There are mods to remove the yellow paint, by the way. But the yellow paint is necessary for modern games because they are too stupid to realize what they can interact with and move on.
To be fair, it is necessary because they have things that are intractable and then the exact same object that isn't.
They need to have it be consistent, all ladders climbable etc. Because the fact that it is a ladder indicates it is climbable.
Or maybe video games should incorporate some of Chekhov into their design.
They wouldn't be as bloated, cluttered, would end up with lower reqs. Win/win.
the worst part is that you get fricking contextual icon when you'll get close to breakable/interactive item
I know normies are moronic but they're not that moronic ffs I actually don't mind the yellow paint, at least I won't miss any box or barrel
They could at least have put in a couple of empty cans of paint to make it look like someone accidentally spilled them over the ground and never bothered cleaning up.
that one is bad but this one is the worst imo. this lever stood out well enough already as it was in a well lit/small area and it was pretty impossible to miss. they could've just made the handle yellow but no they had to literally douse it in paint. if capcom is going to be this egregious about it they should at least add a toggle. they had it right in the older titles where intractable stuff would shine or sparkle. wtf happened?
Yeah I would because it would still be fricking stupid to have blood on literally every interactive object. If you're doing this at least make it like a joke where the main character's hands get gradually more yellow as the game progresses.
What you need to do is vary it up. Have blood occasionally, lighting hints occasionally, camera framing occasionally, maybe even yellow tape occasionally if you've run out of other options. It really just feels artificial because it's so consistent. There's more than 1 way to get a player's attention.
7 months ago
saucy
I would rather blood tell me something is wrong with a situation than have no visual cue whatsoever. I don't want to play through a Nightmare on Elm street vidya.
See it's posts like this that twist my face into disgust.
BLOOD in a video game being used to indicate location and objectives is now bad.
I would rather blood tell me something is wrong with a situation than have no visual cue whatsoever. I don't want to play through a Nightmare on Elm street vidya.
i would have less of a problem with it if it was blood because the yellow is such a fricking EYESORE and rips me out of the experience. that being said though no matter if its blood or yellow paint its still fricking lazy. a game with well thought out level design or art direction wouldn't have to have these handicaps because the player should naturally be led to whatever the dev wants them to do/interact with. the problem is, the image i posted with the lever was literally at a dead end and the fire next to it made it very well lit and obvious. to me that just shows that capcom is trying to pander to the lowest common denominator (dsp) and has no faith in their players
At the end of the day it's not that big of a deal, especially in a game as stupid as RE4. It's not like I'm going to enjoy the game any less... but come on rofl.
It's way more distracting than a simple button prompt like
The majority of places and puzzles doesn't have yellow paint, only boxes and ladders have it for whatever reason.
You are a fricking moron why are you talking like you know this for sure when they already took out the paint from everything else.
Both these people are dumb because they are both acting like it's an either or situation. You either have the yellow paint there or you have nothing. The guy saying "it's good game design to do this" thinks the ONLY thing they can do to achieve this is yellow paint and the original tweet makes it seem like there shouldn't be anything there. It's insane because The Last of Us literally used the yellow marker thing 10 years ago and it's still probably the only game to actually do it well because it was genuinely considered when designing locations. >Place ladder you can pick up next to street that uses yellow for the lane lines >Car you can push to climb a ledge is a broken down taxi >window you can break is right next to yellow graffiti >wires you have to reconnect to power open a thing use yellow extension cords you have to follow
It gets shit on in this game in particular because it does literally nothing to match the setting and is ugly as sin because of it, not because the practice itself is bad.
they had to use yellow paint for ladders in RE4 because they made bad decisions with lighting for areas and didn't want to change it so they just slapped the paint to do what lighting should've been used for.
Players not knowing which objects they can interact with shouldn't tell you that you need to slather objects in paint, but that purely contextual environmental interactivity shouldn't exist in the first place.
Very interesting thread, and there is so much to unpack. But I will say this, video games have always been about interaction and the player having this tendency to explore, experiment, adapt and so on. I think the yellow paint deliberately telling players what to interact with defeats the purpose of that "will" or agency that should be borne out of yourself. Yes, I'm an oldgay, yes even though sometimes in the past frustration did arise, my and other players tendency and how we played games, was with a massive drive to conquer the game. Even though we barely had internet or other media which told us what to do. We always came back to the game fresh the next day to experiment and try something new. I think this is why games in general today are boring, everything is giving to the player and if you get frustrated, you can easily go online and find a solution without using your head and figuring shit out which eventually your brain rewards you big time if you do so.
Another thing is that people are lazy today and expect their entertainment to do the job of having fun for you. When in the past you made your own fun within the game. I don't think it has nothing to do with realism, just lazy gays.
You can accomplish the same thing with lighting, visual cues, and level design that naturally leads people towards objectives. Most games already do, "paint the way forward" they just don't make it that obvious.
Good game design would be adding it to the suite of accessibility tools, but it's way too obvious and jarring to paint all the interactables in your world like this especially when you're trying to be realistic and immersive. Because now anything that isn't painted yellow will immediately just be considered set dressing. Essentially everything in this image has been turned into white noise with the yellow ladder being the only actual thing in this area.
Yeah, it just kinda makes it blatant to the player how narrow their options actually are, and to only pay attention to objects smeared with neon paint and disregard literally everything else.
No it's good, "placating to play testing and focus groups" design that is killing vidya. If I a see another fricking "yellow paint splatter" edge in a game....
Yes, but there are more subtle ways to do it.
Splattered paint is one solution but it should not be used repeatedly. There's a huge variety of ways to draw the player's attention to a specific area/object.
I noticed this problem with Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. One area had desks covered with junk to look realistic, I wondered if there was any item to pick up there, but it was impossible to know what could be interacted without moving all over to see what got highlighted. Later went back to the original Deus Ex, and it looked simpler but was functionally superior: much less clutter, you know with a glance what can be interacted.
i miss when the things you could interact with stood out because they were noticeably higher detail than everything else. the damage HD graphics have done to AAA games is immense.
If the player agency is gone: no it's not good game design.
If the player agency is kept intact: yes it is good game design.
The problem isn't the yellow paint. The paint could easily be blood and people would still complain. If players feel like they are forced to interact with bloody objects then it does set a precedent for controversy. The yellow paint being there just indicates that players are forced to interact with objects that do nothing special, nor help with progress. So in a lot of ways, it is good game design because the player agency is still intact; players can still do what they want to do. But in another sense, it creates discomfort, because it basically upends the whole point of using your visual cues for progress.
>tutorial level >get the player into a cramped corridor where the only thing to do is push forward and reach a ladder at the end >proceed to climb up ladder >now i know ladders can be interacted with in this manner
wow so hard! and before some homosexual says that ladders and other objects would be difficult to locate in a more open level with clutter everywhere, there are other ways to guide the player in subtler ways besides godawful white or yellow paint
Is the Remake worth buying? I have played the original to death and think it would be interesting to see it presented in a different way. I like how the original plays with the tank controls. It feels kind of clunky but you can master it and weave through enemies and use roundhouse kicks for crowd control. It’s fun and it feels like it has some depth/ability to play stylish. Obviously the remake plays differently, but is it’s gameplay/weapon variety good enough to support lots of replay value? Original RE4 is endlessly replayable for me.
I like the remake more because it improves a lot of sections and removes filler. OG RE4 lasts too fricking much, every time I play it I keep thinking i'm gonna get to a cool chapter and instead just keeps going and going with not so cool chapters.
Nothing that insults the player's intelligence is good design. There are several things they could have done that make more sense than splashing bright yellow "over here you fricking moron" paint all over everything.
No. It's the supposed best UX design practices perpetuated by morons so many times it got exaggerated.
At some point one of these artisty tumblr type fricks said "hey maybe we could make this little object a bit more distinct so people know they can interact with it". And in some cases, a little visual cue is definitely handy. You might want to know the actual exit to an area at a glance if there are multiple similar doors for example.
But then of course there are those who are even more moronic and think this should be implemented everywhere, every game, for every possible interactable object. Then over time it becomes even MORE moronic because every one of these artistic tumblr shits want to leave their own mark on the industry. So these little visual cues become exaggerated over time to the point you have BRIGHT YELLOW LADDERS to show you that yes, the only ladder in this tiny room with no other way out, is the ladder you can climb.
JUST MAKE THE STAIRS RED PAINTED METAL SO IT NOT ONLY POPS, BUT ALSO LOOKS LIKE PART OF THE WORLD!
Fricking Half Life 1 got this in late 90s, this smeared paint is the worst solution
It's bad game design to add clutter to the environment that can't be used. Games don't need to tackle real life so badly that it confuses the player of what is and is not interactable.
It's less time consuming than making a separate setting for half blind people that puts that yellow paint on things you can interact with or having to deal with the complaints post-release.
And yes, some people need that.
Just make it glow or something. Trying to come up with diagetic hints like this for immersion is fricking stupid when there's no reason something would just randomly be slathered in yellow paint.
Even more annoying is that they don't make it fit in with the game. RE7 used yellow paint/tape but it was actually visually consistent with the setting of that game, so it was less immersion-breaking. Nothing about RE4 or Village suggests there should be yellow paint spilled everywhere, the colour palette and setting are completely different
I first realized this shit with Dead Space in wich they made a line to show you where you had to go and in bioshock in wich everything usable was fricking glowing.
Zero exploration, I hate casual gamers.
And I wont play shitty remakes btw.
IMO Dead Space is fine because you can just never press R3 ever if you don't want to (except for the one time it tutorial prompts you), so it's completely optional, which is how it should be in RE4 instead of forced on you. Dead Space also made it fit for the in-game logic by having it be a function of the RIG which was smart, unlike RE4 where it makes no sense in universe
you are right it makes sense in dead space but what I mean is that's when I began to notice it was too easy to explore, and then with cod and all the pointers and meters to the objective... I understand that people may not have much time to play now but this is too much.
that same person complaining about the paint would also be complaining about not being able to find the ladder if there was no paint. devs cater to morons (including journalists) to keep them from complaining about shit that should never be an issue, but the morons always have something to complain about.
It's a logical consequence of "hyper real graphics." When games were lower rez and more game-y, it was easy to tell what could be interacted with and what couldn't. When everything is SO REAL, in both the foreground and the background, devs do need some way to tell players "you can use this" or experimentation will quickly lead to frustration. The yellow paint is a shitty looking answer, but detractors better be ready to provide another solution.
This. It's an unfortunate consequence of pursuing realism while still limiting what the player can do. In an ideal game there would be dozens of realistic ways to scale a wall just like in reality, but in lazy ass video game environments there's only one solution so that solution needs to be highlighted or else players will inevitably feel frustrated because the game is wasting their time.
It's this but I would also add that it's probably something that play testers missed or couldn't find so they made it easier to see from the background. It's just an easy way to denote where the player should go next. If it wasn't there I guarantee these are the same type of chuckelfricks that would get pissed off because they ran around in circles for an hour not knowing where to go next.
That's fricking moronic. I'm playing through RE4R for the first time now and one of the first things I did was download the yellow paint removal mod and I have had 0 issues finding breakable crates and barrels. They have the same fricking models and even without the bright yellow "LOOK HERE moron" paint they are easy to pick out from the environment. Stop defending the dumbing down of games for morons.
Congrats, Yogi - you're smarter than the average bear. You're playing RE4R for the first time, but did you play RE4 first? Is RE4R your first ever video game? You have the mental capacity to tell which realistic items can be itneracted with and which cannot, but do you have the mental capacity to put yourself in the shoes of someone who does not share your lived experience?
In the original RE4, item pickups got walls of light around them. "Gameyness" was okay because the game wasn't hyper-real like things are now.
I don't mean these questions aggressively, either. Honestly, think about these things.
Glowing item pickups doesn't take away from the environmental design. I get what your'e saying but I disagree with it.
I guess my qeustion is, why are devs making non-gamers the target audience?
>I guess my qeustion is, why are devs making non-gamers the target audience?
The amount of "casual" gamers is much, much bigger than the core ones.
As game budgets balloon in size, you need the casuals to also buy your game so you can recoup costs and actually profit.
And you also want them to be able to finish it so they may eventually purchase sequels.
>And you also want them to be able to finish it so they may eventually purchase sequels.
Have any studies been done on this to show that even matters? npcs will buy anything whether they finish it or not, and at that point the devs have gotten their money. It doesn't matter if Joe McBob is too moronic to finish the game, you got his money already.
have a recent example, people who bought the harry potter game, ask a normieif he liked it, he will say "yes"
ask him if he finished it, he will say "no"
that's the goal here, to streamline a game in order to remove every frustrating aspect, a normie doesn't drop a game because he is bored, but because he was playing, maybe plan to play it, but something came out in his life, may it be a plan or non-planned event, then he will forget about the game, because it's streamlined, there's no element of surprise, no drive to finish it, he will never think "man this boss was hard, I need to go back and beat it" or "I can't wait to see what's the new region looks like" because he played more than 3 hours of the game, he saw everything, he knows it, so he drops it, it was like a fun ride, that will imprint a positive memory
so when a new game comes out, the trailer will play on the prequel's strength, and the normie will think "man that was cool, I'll buy it too"
normies eat up games like starfield, skyrim and fallout 4 because they arent challenging, you are a god that can change the world around you to your will, lore, setting, logic take a backseat to fun and it sells boatloads. Normies like simple power fantasies with just enough story and aesthetics to keep the game together, they will spam right trigger for 300 hours because they keep winning, they almost never have trouble with a boss and when they do it's rare enough that they think about it as a memorable encounter. The enjoyment comes from the power fantasy, not from the struggle, normies will 100% drop a game with a negative impression if they keep dying because they fricked up their build, or missed a vital piece of information like a boss' gimmick so they get mad when they can't right trigger the enemy to death.
On the complete opposite end to bethesda games you have underrail, a game where messing up your build pretty much guarantees you wont be able to proceed in the normal difficutly, which only a hardcore gamer would even attempt to play, since there's only enjoyment at the very end of the encounters, not the encounters themselves.
>I guess my qeustion is, why are devs making non-gamers the target audience?
Money, obviously.
When you play RE4R, you intend to finish it. The moron who buys it and drops it before they even get to the first yellow paint paid the same money as you. Devs (publishers, if you wish to be pedantic about it) want more of the latter to pay for the game, even if those people don't experience most of the game, and regardless of how much it bothers the people who buy it with the intent to finish it.
>why are devs making non-gamers the target audience?
money
small group of passionate fans won't pay for a mortgage
Isn't it the marketing team's job to sell the game to normies, not the designer's? The designer should just design the game they want, and the marketers should figure out how to sell it. Making the designers dumb it down to sell more copies is just a failure of marketing.
it's an everybody's job because even if the marketing team can sell someone something if the moron who bought it complains enough the game can still suffer
>waaah i am too moronic to break the barrels
Everyone would just tell them they suck and to get good, there's no way that would affect the sales. What do people where you work think of Fromsoft's success, because they are the antithesis of a lot of this shit.
Are you talking about the Fromsoft games that have big blinking white lights for everything you can pick up off the ground or the other ones that were made before you were born
You keep making this argument, it's fricking moronic. Pickups aren't the same thing as interactible parts of the fricking environment.
I think he's talking about the Fromsoft that doesn't paint ladders and crates and everything important in yellow.
that would require marketers to do actual work, anyone with that kind of job is just dead weight and the management of the company just has to go along with it cause thats how companies do
>put yourself in the shoes of someone who does not share your lived experience?
why should I? This is our hobby, no one asks for a simplified version of Moby Dick, the majority should never bend over to help minorities.
>the majority should never bend over to help minorities.
What you fail to, or refuse to, accept is that you ARE the minority. This is why some empathy is a powerful tool. I'm not telling you to be a bleeding heart, I'm telling you "know thy enemy."
>the majority should never bend over to help minorities.
anon look at the number of likes on that tweet. YOU are the minority.
>nobody asks for a simplified version of moby dick
there are abridged copies with all of the whaling autism sections removed
As someone in the industry
>devs didnt sit around and decide it for fun. I promise you it was the consequence of playtesting
>you may "know" video game language but games are played by a wide range of people, including those with mental disabilities and sight issues
>no, its not obvious ladders are climbable and crates are breakable. You underestimate how foreign gaming is to most. I've seen friends etc not even be able to tell when a cutscene has ended and they have control again. I can assure you the majority of people do need the paint
>people do need the paint
more like they do EAT the paint, amirite?
>hey bro lets just ruin everything because a few people are moronic
leftists are genuinely cancer
their brains cannot think logically, only based on empathy or feelings
no other way to explain why they can think this is ok
in which case they should not be allowed to vote or influence anything
but think of the sales ;_; boss shekelsteinberg needs his new yacht
>I am fricking FUMING about the color of a ladder because unlike homosexual leftoids I am a being of pure reason
I will get mad at things that are wrong no matter how big or small.
homosexual.
>leftists
Frick off with that shit. Nobody mentioned your pol memea until you showed up
its exactly how they think and act so its relevant
im sick of watching things get destroyed or hamstrung because it would "improve the lives" for a tiny number of people
I don't even know how this helps people with disabilities and honestly if you're so obsessed with helping them then make a disabled people options menu solely for people with disabilities
but nah you're not going to bother because it's too much work
>muh pol boogeyman because they mention left or right
take your meds
It has nothing to do with leftists and everything to do with sales figures you deluded ape. In some cases it might even be "illegal" to have your game not be accessible depending on where you live. I'm just waiting for the ADA lawsuits on video game dogshit to absolutely ruin gaming even further tbh.
>playtesters are a bunch of blind morons
>"hull let's make game cateling to these gays, smor indie gloup prease indestando"
As someone also in the industry, go frick yourself for continuing the moronic trend. You can do it way more intellectually than bright yellow paint.
This. In fact what ever happening to just letting the player figure it out? We get it the playtesters said that spending 5.2 seconds in an area is too long we gotta throw them a bone. Frick that Look around use your brain run down the list.
>As someone in the industry
Post your last released game's revenue. Whoever works on the highest is the correct one.
cool now the current and future generations of gamers will be somehow even fricking dumber
thanks!!
>but games are played by a wide range of people, including those with mental disabilities and sight issues
>You underestimate how foreign gaming is to most. I've seen friends etc not even be able to tell when a cutscene has ended and they have control again. I can assure you the majority of people do need the paint
Then they can get good or frick off, no hobby should cater to its lowest common denominator.
In that case its fine to have yellow paint up to, like, the village fight. Honestly I can justify it there especially because some of the areas are a bit busy and it isnt immediately clear that the freestanding crates are the only interactable ones and the little white crates with piles of hay or wagon wheels on them cannot be interacted with. But why the frick are the ladders still yellow on the island? You cant seriously expect the average moron to have beat verdugo.
more like Devs play each others games and take what works. Uncharted and the last of us popularised this shit and now other third person action games are following suit. fundamentally the game should focus on the action, locating a ladder is not in the skill set nor fun factor of the game
>including those with mental disabilities and sight issues
legitimately, when did we start to give a frick about those homosexuals?
after gamer gate, obviously
The solution to a person being unable to do a thing is not to just do it for them though. They need to learn, and if they can't learn they need to fail, and if they can't perservere through failure they need to stop. It's that simple, and this goes for literally all things in life.
Yes and no. It's mostly poor art design. You can cleverly guide players into the right direction, and highlight important things with lighting alone.
Dark = Nothing here, son. Light = Look at this shit.
Good level/art design barely exists, because of the curse of minimaps and waypoint markers.
>You can cleverly guide players into the right direction, and highlight important things with lighting alone.
>Dark = Nothing here, son. Light = Look at this shit.
That requires a functional lighting engine, the game is instead built in a pretty lighting engine. Functional lighting does not work in unreal 4+.
How bout yellow paint that DOESN'T look shitty? Mirror's Edge had great use of color. Wow, that was easy.
my homie
Mirror's Edge is not "hyper realistic." It's highly stylized. It has more freedom to play with colors.
Fair point. Counterpoint: there's a mod that removes the yellow shit and it's instantly preferrable.
exactly, that's why most uses outside of it look shit. florescent paint randomly coating terrain doesn't look good outside stylized environments.
good game design would be nudging players in the right direction with sensory clues that fit the setting and aren't insulting to the player's intelligence.
>detractors better be ready to provide another solution.
Ok, here goes.
Don't do that.
I thought these realistic graphics are there for players to immerse themselves better, but throwing yellow paint on everything immediately destroys said immersion. Maybe don't make it super duper realistic if you aren't able to deal with that dilemma in a better way.
Wow, a completely unironic FPBP.
Wow, a completely unironic troony shill.
design your levels well and you won't have issues understanding what's interactable and what's not.
i just wish it was a toggle, we already have accessibility, why not put a "highlight interactable objects" as well?
>another solution
how about a subtle highlight or "climb" popup at the bottom of the screen when your character gets close
yellow paint highlighter is cringe
>"climb" popup
Just like the original RE4. The blueprint was already there.
A button prompt when you're near would suffice. I don't need to see alien cum from the other end of a linear corridor.
Hmm I sure wish there was some kind of obvious compromise here.
Not as useful of a comparison as you may think. Running is the central aspect of Mirror's Edge. It makea sense to offer a tweak option. Ladders and crates arent the central gameplay of RE4. They are a means to an end, and that's partially why they've been simplified, and why they didn't decide to waste resources with the ability to turn it onn and off.
Would it be better if you could turn it off? Probably. But devs can't do everything. There are time and money constraints. And again, you're asking them to perfect ladders in a zombie shooying game
>Would it be better if you could turn it off? Probably. But devs can't do everything.
What a moronic excuse, devs already half-ass everything nowadays. If some modder quickly did it for free then the they also certainly could. In a patch, at least.
it took a guy less than a week to strip out a majority of the yellow crap in his spare time, and that's without having access to everything the devs themselves would. it's a simple job and there's no excuse for not making it a toggleable accessibility option.
>Would it be better if you could turn it off? Probably. But devs can't do everything.
the paint is literally an object texture, give it its own class, tie said class in the list that serves as option menu and have the option to set it to 1 or 0
this shit takes less than 5 minutes to do
>And again, you're asking them to perfect ladders in a zombie shooying game
brushing aside an element that could serve as a means of escape in a game centered around survival, surprises and space awareness just show how badly managed this whole process is
Yellow paint interactable objects isn't the cause of the problem, it's just a symptom of the new way to develop a game where the designers don't put any though into the world and the levels.
it's just an amusing irony, some people put yellow paint on the pedestal of necessity due to the evolution of graphics where we can't have objects stand out on their own because it's "too video gamey and unrealistic", and the solution is to put something aimed directly at the player
Its literally a single line of code to make it togglable you moron. Stop making excuses for the most profitable form of entertainment
Not all games use a shader and it's something they need to decide from day 1. What you don't understand is without the neon paint most of this modern slop would be unplayable because it's a guessing game which magical ledge is the one they want you to use and which one is an invisible wall.
>games have such "hyper real graphics" that they can't even use lightning or texture noise in a clever way to highlight an important or interactable item
we've regressed to Atari level design, we replaced 2D square white blocks representing walls to gray/brown 3D blocks representing walls.
>devs do need some way to tell players "you can use this" or experimentation will quickly lead to frustration
and they have to deal with more and more stupid people who don't experiment, they don't even finish games when they are 10 hours long
>The yellow paint is a shitty looking answer, but detractors better be ready to provide another solution.
you are absolutely right because the only solution is to have the team make the levels the same that make the assets
how about.....don't place a ladder in the environment unless it's interactable? when do you find a ladder in Dark Souls that doesn't function as a ladder? did it require a highlight? frick no. don't place un-interactable shit everywhere. this is a consequence of all the visual clutter like you said but the simple solution is, stop placing bullshit everywhere and you won't have to slap giant "THIS IS A REAL LADDER" stickers on your ladders
Basically yeah, game graphics got good but I remember dreaming as a kid when enemy ai got better and everything was more interactive but it's basically gone backwards, no games even attempted to carry stuff like red faction forward for example. It's all about the VA -mocap cartel making every game 75% cutscenes
More like due to convoluted obtuse game mechanics only some things aren't climbable. In that screenshot you can guarantee the fence is basically an unclimbable invisible wall and I've seen lots of modern examples where there are obviously climbable rocks but they don't want you to climb THOSE rocks, they want you to climb THESE rocks. Not to mention many devs have lost the talent of level design where the level naturally leads you to where they want you to go without having to spray paint everything with neon.
moronic
its real simple
if a thing is there it should be interactable with or serve a purpose
if it isn't, IT SHOULDN'T BE THERE
its so fricking simple. nobody needs to ever see a single ladder if they can't do anything with it
>The yellow paint is a shitty looking answer, but detractors better be ready to provide another solution
have a color palette in your game that isn't washed out to shit. if you take a screenshot of the game and everything blends together into a washed out grey pulp instead of seeing blacks whites and grays contrasting each other, then you're doing something wrong
Honestly, plenty of games have gotten around the same issue without seeming straight up condescending, like having important/interactable items glow, shimmer, or otherwise differentiate themselves from the background when the player's near them.
Stop cluttering environment with uninteractive garbage? Lol
Modern gamers are moronic graphicsgays who will throw a fit if there's not worthless screenshot fodder lying around everywhere. Look at how they'll cry about how anything that's not on the very cutting edge is "literally PS2 graphics"
>Modern gamers are moronic graphicsgays
It's always been like that. I remember it was like that as far back as a kid when DKC came out. I remember the rumors of some friend of a friend had a Neogeo and whether they were lying or not because of how legendary it supposedly was.
fpbp
And yes, it's a bad answer, but ultimately it's unfortunately necessary.
>it's unfortunately necessary.
No it's not
Ok whats the alternative
Don't smear paint on shit, like games have been doing for decades.
>no argument
figured. The reasoning why that shit was smeared on there was already explained.
Make unbreakable boxes metal, make breakable boxes wood. Video games have been doing this shit for decades.
already explained why it's moronic
You're a moron.
>quickly lead to frustration
So it is strictly a personal problem for morons? Got it. As always, low IQ, uneducated filth continue to drag everyone else down with them.
I can tell just fine without the hand holding, get your eyes and brain checked
Ok Anon, serious question. Did you get lost when watching Dora the Explorer and couldn't point out where the mountain was before the mouse cursor clicked it? You fricking braindead invalid.
>BUT MUH YELLOW PAINT IS NEEDED BECAUSE MUH REALISM
How can we show this ladder is climbable and others aren't...
>A: Paint them in garish yellow so toddlers watching Dora can play along... despite it being an M rated game
>B: make them stand out by slightly changing the colors like making them lighter so they stand out and breaking ladders that can't be climbed so it's clear you can't climb them
Look man, we aren't talking about E rated games. We're talking games supposedly made for people over the age of 16. Stop being moronic or stick to Paw Patrol World like the child you are.
The post clearly admitted that the yellow paint was a shitty solution. Next time you call someone braindead maybe don't reveal you can't read. Fricking moron.
I plaid the base game with a mod that removes all the yellow paint. I had no issue figuring out where I was supposed to go.
>plaid
anon
it's almost as "muh graphix" is a shitty meme that leads to worse games, and needs to end.
This, also we need to stop dumbing games down for the lowest common denominator.
Why are games rated M for Mature so dumbed down it's more like playing an interactive version of Dora the Explorer.
CAN YOU SEE THE LADDER?
>Blatantly yellow ladder on screen
YOU DID IT YOU FOUND THE LADDER
How the hell does Bing Bing Wahoo and fricking Sonic require more competence and intelligence to navigate their levels?
When would a ladder ever be unusable? If it's not usable then it shouldn't be included in the scene, or should be very obviously unusable like a broken ladder, or a ladder fallen on the grown. Real life doesn't have spray paint on objects and it looks more real than "hyper real graphics." It's a bandaid over bad design.
Yeah this unfortunately. Image that same ladder but without the paint (not hard to do unless you're genuinely moronic), I can imagine a LOT of players would simply miss it due to being the same color as the bricks, walk around in frustration for 20 minutes and give up.
>Image that same ladder but without the paint (not hard to do unless you're genuinely moronic), I can imagine a LOT of players would simply miss it due to being the same color as the bricks, walk around in frustration for 20 minutes and give up.
iirc there's a HUD prompt when you're within 5 meters of it, the yellow paint is just for idiots that somehow can't play linear games properly
>I can imagine a LOT of players would simply miss it due to being the same color as the bricks
Except it's at the end of a small narrow path and an enemy jumps down from the top (the one in that image). Did you even play the DLC?
My homie, I don't even own the game lmao
So why the frick are you in a thread talking about its design choices?
Why the frick do you vote if you aren't a politician? Why do you complain about the quality of food when you're not a chef? Why do you hate NTR when you don't even have a GF?
It's because you're allowed to have opinions anon and so am I.
>Why the frick do you vote if you aren't a politician?
Because I familiarize myself with the issues I care about and that affect my life. What a stupid fricking comparison.
>It's because you're allowed to have opinions anon and so am I.
No, it's because you're a mentally ill shitposter.
>Hmmmm today I will start fights with anons on a thread about putting paint on ladders in a video game
You can't be serious.
>Today I will go into threads for games I haven't played to talk about my opinions on their design choices
Yup, that's Ganker.
>The yellow paint is a shitty looking answer, but detractors better be ready to provide another solution.
Stop making games with greyscale color pallets? It's not something that's novel in real life, you could very easily have simply made a ladder that isn't the exact same rust brown and fog grey as every other thing in the environment.
>B-BUH SPANISH VILLAGE IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE
Then use a different color for the building's stonework or simply have the ladder painted by default instead of this moronic splash to imply they were going to work on it.
Just do what fromsoft does, just put a little lantern or something at the foot of the ladder. Like, what's the point of going for muh immersive realistic graphics of you have to ruin that immersion by smearing moron paint everywhere.
>but detractors better be ready to provide another solution.
Stop trying to do moronic realistic graphics.
Stop having moronic details that have no gameplay implications that will confuse the player
holy frick, I thought I was the only person with an IQ above 100 on this board
Holy shit what a monkey moron you are.
Play Half-Life then play Black Mesa to see how wrong you are.
>When games were lower rez and more game-y, it was easy to tell what could be interacted with and what couldn't
We must come from different timelines.
in every Valve's Developer Commentary they explain the player has the intelligence of a American citizen and need visual cues every step: giant A - B in walls, in Portal, walls need orange and blue lines,etc
>trying to make a casual joke about Americans
>while bringing up Valve, a studio made up of brilliant Americans
You tried.
the average american, sadly, aren't brilliant americans
No, good game design would be to make everything usable or at minimum interactive
biggest moron in the entire thread right here. everyone point and laugh
I wouldnt have believe you 20 years ago if you told me we would stil lhave bulletproof windows in games
This. New tomb raider games did the same though capcom should use white instead of a strong YELLOW, but the yellow is imported from RE7 but in that game made sense because of the yellow motifs of the game
fpbp. For a perfect example, compare and contrast the first two Dead Rising games with Dead Rising 3. All 3 litter the stages with interactable props, but it's much harder to filter the signal (interactable props) from the noise (clutter baked into the level geometry as set dressing, or higher resolution textures competing with interactable objects for visual attention) in Dead Rising 3.
the post that mindbroke vedditors.
just put a torch, latern or flashlight by the foot of the ladder or something
> people actually think this response is smart
fricking christ just put a cursor or popup over intractable shit stop being scared of your video games being fricking video games
>no one so far was able to provide a good solution
fpbp
>better be ready to provide another solution
Here's a ladder in TLOU2. It's in a dark place, so if it drawn normally the player could potentially overlook it. ND's solution is to make it basically ignore the shading model (you can see here it's much brighter than it should be) and then also make it yellow. It's not subtle, but it works well. It's almost impossible to miss yet doesn't feel outrageously signposted.
RE4 attempted to make the highlight diegetic (the ladder is yellow because someone spilled paint on it instead of just happening to be yellow) but it's backfired horribly.
By trying to make it natural, they've just drawn more attention to it.
Ideally aim to have good enough visual direction and level design that you don't need to highlight things. But if you have to highlight them, then just highlight them. Shade them differently, or set some consistent rules that the player can learn (maybe metal ladders are climbable, wooden ones are decorative).
Don't try to think up a funny in-universe reason for it.
That can be modded out, I think.
only moronic and overly stimulated zoomers need that
look at dark souls
that game doesn't need that shit and doesn't hold your hand yet it is considered one of the greatest games ever made. meanwhile this remake won't be even remembered.
>see a ladder in real life
>get confused whether or not I can climb it because it's not covered in yellow paint
Video games have solved this before, its called context senstive buttons.
>walk up to ladder, if you can climb it, press button to climb, if you can't you move on
Almost correct it's more about "with so many objects in the scene you can miss the forest for the trees"
sensory overload will make you ignore important objects like a ladder.
But personally I am more the fan of the "guiding light" approach. Either a prominent light in the scene shining on the object or the object itself receiving a light glow as you are close to it.
I haven't played the game so maybe I'm wrong, but from that picture it seems they were already trying to draw the player's attention.
It's a different color (brown-ish instead of grey like the walls).
The ladder seems to be placed at the end of a corridor, or maybe inside an alcove..?
There's an enemy right next to it. The player shoots at the enemy, notices the ladder.
But clearly some playtester was stuck there for hours, so they made the ladder fluorescent.
You're looking at the single case but it's more likely that someone had that problem during RE7 playtesting (first REngine game iirc) and they're just reusing assets.
different lighting like animation cels in old cartoons.
reddit post praised by morons
this place is dead
I partially agree, but they went overboard.
Games like Sekiro did it way better with the more subtle white edges that you could grab on to.
A)
Usually they'll use yellow or whatever marker to indicated that any given ledge is climbable, not just ladders. In fact I've never seen it used for just ladders.
B)
>obviously a ladder is climbable
>he doesn't know
Crazy idea but does anyone even find climbing ladders fun? I can't think of a single game other than Death Stranding where it was fun to climb ladders.
Lmao
Death Stranding was so fricking boring this nibba was enjoying climbing the ladders
I don't think they're meant to be fun, anon
sliding down is fun, climbing up, not so much...unless you can spam jump up the ladder instead of climbing.
They're a thrill
fear 1. 🙂
Any game where you can slide down the ladder. Can't think of a game where climbing up is fun though.
console players are that dumb
/thread
console Black folk have ruined gaming making them the lowest common denominator to target
Of course. They were dumb enough to buy them in the first place.
/thread
curiously enough, these moron-friendly features were absent from vidya when the games were produced for consoles only.
It's only after the publishers started catering to pc gaymers that we've been experiencing this absolute cringe
never change, thirdies, never change
Capcom is targeting PC as their main market these days, try again.
RE4 was a GameCube (console) exclusive at release, you absolute morons.
Good game design masks mechanics into the world in believable diegetic ways so the player's attention isn't drawn to them. Painting everything yellow does the exact oppossite, and OP is a fricking gaygor for looking for Twitter screencaps to find sub-IQ bait.
It's bad game design because its looks too fricking obvious, like said, good game design is to make them so believable and so diagetic that you don't even notice it, but you're still lead to it the same.
has some points but is overall moronic. the problem isn't "muh hyper reel gwafix" (that's as much of a design choice as low poly 3d/pixelshit is a design choice), the problem is that the actual design is fricking terrible to begin with, and feels more like a tacked-on solution that only makes it stick out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the world. it's unrelated to the problem in the OP. you might a well say that the solution to make a top down tactics jrpg-slash-political thriller dating visual novel game feel more compelling and real is to make the graphics photoreal and use extremely detailed 3d models, its a fricking disingenuous solution.
No seriously though where's the SW update
Also for the voice mod but that's for another topic
You made this exact same thread yesterday OP, get a life lonely incel frick.
Yes.
People get hung up on it but with high fidelity graphics identifying interactable objects during action sequences can and will be harder, which works in detriment of the gameplay experience.
Is just that autists forgot that in the original RE4 every interactable object looked like the drawer that would open in a scene in an old Tom and Jerry cartoon.
yes. other option would be to have arrow or have the usable item glow like jesus. using colored landmarks is more subtle and fits most games better.
it's just that modern graphics make it hard to know which of the 1000 objects on screen are actually any use. on older simpler looking games you basically only had the items that you can interact with and everything was just flat. now you have 1000 items on screen and it's more like finding needle from pile hay without any indicators, which is not fun.
Even BETTER game design would be showing it happen by having an enemy use the ladders or break crates early on, and then expect the player to not forget what happened 15 minutes ago.
This. Also, a simple camera pan to what you are suppose to look for. It really doesn't make sense since you are infiltrating a place that many people died in so paint makes it feel like you are just following someone else's path like they knew you would follow after then and happened to paint the area to get there which really doesn't make sense based on the story.
>simple camera pan to what you are suppose to look for
Thank god you're not a dev because I hate that shit. So easy to miss the panning or not know what specifically you're supposed to be focused on.
I don't think you realise how high the bounce rate is for most games. Most people have full time jobs and families,l. They like a challenge from games but the SECOND they feel frustration the game is dropped. The average casual player is going to tolerate feeling lost for 5 mins tops before they drop the game and move onto something else.
Also, RE is a zombie shooting game, not a wall-climbing sim. There is nothing wrong with simplifying a peripheral feature. The benefits outweigh the potential downside of bouncing casual players because of a fricking ladder.
Stop making games with ridiculously inflated budgets then so you don't have to pander to the lowest common denominator anymore.
As long as devs keep pushing for higher fidelity graphics, this is kind of unfortunately necessary. Plus there's a lot of morons playing vidya today who NEED the guidance to not get lost.
It's one of the neatest things about BOTW/TOTK, since they actually made essentially everything in the world interactible.
>BOTW
Nice try tendie
Not him and I'm not a tendie, but BotW is the only good game Nintendo has made in I can't even remember how long.
In what way do the towers existing go against my point of the world being mostly interactible?
Musashi didn't say that
Contrasting interactive elements with the background has quite literally always been a part of good art direction, and no amount of goalpost shifting about le subtlety you try to cook up after the fact can change that
>Contrasting interactive elements with the background has quite literally always been a part of good art direction
There are other ways to do this than just making it look like someone splattered yellow paint around a level.
Maybe, but I also lived through the era of just putting a blinking objective marker or a line on the ground from yourself to the object, so even if this is unsightly it's not the end of the world. I don't understand why the people this bent out of shape about it aren't just playing like AD&D or MUDs
Not him, but I'll always take a slight glow over an attempt at diegetic UI elements that don't make sense.
It literally the opposite of good game design.
No. I loved the remake but the yellow paint is some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen.
I take it as a personal insult to my intelligence
so this is one of those twitter screenshots that will be made into a dozen threads every single day on Ganker for the next 10 years. Great.
There are articles that explain how Game Design, with lots of examples, but they are longer that 140 characters. That twitter screenshot never explain the name of the game or why yellow paint in a ladder is bad idea
If you learn about game design from articles, or worse, from a university, instead of buy playing fricking video games, you are part of the problem and should never make a game in your life.
Half-Life did it first
To be fair this is how actual hospitals work quite often
it is literally dumbing down but that's fine since modern devs are morons and make games for morons
No, but just think of the HL2 playtesters and now extrapolate the realization to every game ever made, even i get this.
>make game
>players cant figure out how to switch weapons
>the instructions are on the download link
It is horrible game design. RE4R is still great though because it hardly impacts the experience unless you're hyper autistic.
you know what would make this even funnier/pathetic?
if this area only had two ways in/out or one path to follow
Pandering to the lowest common denominator is good for sales, but for nothing else.
total consoleBlack person death
Do they think I'm stupid? Why is the item a big le glowing ball
Funny you should bring up Dark Souls, but those games also had light sources near the tops and bottoms of ladders when visibility was poor.
the only game this was done well was mirror's edge
So much Capcum cope.
God you homosexuals have serious Stockholm syndrome.
I can see putting paint on boxes cause most games don't put shit in boxes anymore like RE does but the ladder is so disgusting looking cause it makes jack shit sense to paint it yellow for gameplay and lore reasons. If a player sees a ladder that leads somewhere, they're gonna try and climb it, yellow paint or not.
>If a player sees a ladder that leads somewhere, they're gonna try and climb it, yellow paint or not.
This statement is going to confuse and enrage you: no, that is not what a player IS going to do.
A player MIGHT do that, but the type of player who WOULD do that is becoming a smaller and smaller minority.
>A player MIGHT do that, but the type of player who WOULD do that is becoming a smaller and smaller minority.
Then you might as well stop now and start making walking sims for amoebas if you're that ready to dumb shit down.
>totalizing is...le GOOD
You are too young to remember the PS360 era but this is a hell of a lot better than the sort of things they did to try and casualize games back then. Action games with literally no fail state existed
>You are too young to remember the PS360
You're half right as I'm not a consolegay. That's where brain cells have always went to die.
I don't work in the industry and I don't LIKE the situation either, I am merely noticing and putting words to the reasoning. It makes me upset too, but I have yet to come up with a better solution for games that insist on having hyper-real graphics.
>How do the suits where you work take the success of Fromsoft games?
To its credit, FROM is right up there with old-Valve in terms of masterfully guiding the player's eyes to important things with subtle-but-omnipresent features. They're great at creating a sense of "you are here, the thing is there, and the path between you and the thing is right in front of you."
My apologies for not including that as an outcome, but you're right that it's a perfectly reasonable one.
I get that every game is someone's first video game, but that's no excuse for dumbing things down for everyone else. You sound like you work in the Western game industry. How do the suits where you work take the success of Fromsoft games?
It doesn't confuse nor anger me. It makes me sad.
The majority of places and puzzles doesn't have yellow paint, only boxes and ladders have it for whatever reason.
You are a fricking moron why are you talking like you know this for sure when they already took out the paint from everything else.
Nah, this was the worst one. That's literally the only way you can go.
>already a light source to draw the players attention
>slaps on the moron paint anyways
Too fricking bad. You were filtered by a ladder in a video game. That says far more about your terrifyingly low intelligence, than it does about "good" game design, which for that matter, does not exist. Who is the supposed authority that decided what constitutes good game design? Because all of these "tripul Ayyy" studios parrot the phrase "good game design" and the games are boring fricking trash.
Is this the same moron that couldn't find surf in pokemon gold?
It's good game design to have a hot Asian woman with jiggle physics as your main character.
There's a fine line between understanding why devs pander to moronic casuals and defending being a moronic casual.
It's resident evil, one of the bestselling video game franchises of all time. It is one of most recognisable zombie franchises, daily drawing in folks who watch the shows and movies and want to try the game. Deapite this, you are shocked that it has a casual audience.
Perhaps it is you who is the moron?
I want a parody game where you have to find buckets of yellow paint and paint the objects before you can interact with them. And you have to wait for the paint to dry before you can interact with the object.
>hud marker
>map marker
>yellow paint marker
how much more help do RE players need? can we get a compass marker in the next game too?
We need a glowing arrow hard-textured onto the ground pointing the exact path players need to take to go forward. Better yet just remove the controls all together and put it on rails.
Really they should just add a "B) skip exploration" button which you can press any time you get stuck, I mean yellow paintjob already skips needing to check around your surroundings, that way people who can't use analog sticks can also enjoy the game too
zoomers can't even understand that
this reminds me of deus ex hr and splinter cell blacklist rewarding the player with xp for "exploration" when it's just another obvious linear path that's not hard to miss.
Just finding the alt path is enough of a reward, you don't need a head pat confirmation for finding the alternate path. Now it's worse, they just paint everything
>it is literally good game design
thats not an argument
he didn't explain why
>50k likes
absolutely frick twitter gays and normoids
It was 80k last I checked, fricking moronic seals clapping because they rather have moron paint then be forced to look up a guide.
He would probably explain if you asked but you're a b***h breasts little coward that will only talk about him behind his back. This is one of many reasons the world will move on without you
Why do zoomers talk like this. These aren't even good insults. It's just embarrassing.
>behind his back.
He's welcome to leave his precious X and join here, gayot.
Just as you are free to engage them where they actually made the post to begin with
I'm not an x homosexual, that seems more like your thing
>he would probably explain
lmao
>b***h breasts little coward
like the people who quote tweet and can't even present an argument because they're terrified of getting roasted?
lol. its not my job to hand hold people
the world acts like this not because its progressive, but because its a race to the bottom
the lowest common denominator wins in a world of empathy
but you're too stupid to realize that yet
>>he would probably explain
>lmao
You'd be surprised how far you can get if you don't go into every human interaction with a huge chip on your shoulder and treat conversation like something that can be Won or Lost
>I-I'd like to give this guy a piece of my mind (at my convenience)
I can give you a piece of my dick down your throat, am not making a twatter account for anyone 🙂
Concession accepted, go home and be a family man
yeah it's funny how its us who have to act gracious and understanding when its the original guy who made an idiotic tweet with no argument
I'd rather look at the world through an objective lens than an emotional one every single day
Buddy, there is quite literally no such thing as objectivity, only consensus. There are of course, degrees of consensus, but every single facet of the universe is filtered through the subjective lens of every living thing that has ever experienced it
this is objectively false
subjective lenses don't decide how the world exists
every single living thing *only* has a subjective lens with which to view the world. There might be some all powerful entity that is perfectly able to understand the world with complete objectivity but it certainly isn't fricking you lmao
that isn't proof objectivity doesn't exist, just that it's impossible to be perfectly objective
you're missing the point though if thats your argument
its far better to attempt to be as objective as possible then to abandon objectivity completely
subjectivity literally decides how humans live in the world.... what the hell are you saying
lol what the frick are you saying
you think humans seeing something makes it exist
I can smell your rotten axewound through the screen.
This is his argument.
>Ganker le x post but not le vidya
yeah so basically because some dev locked the story behind some hard to find thing it means everything has to be super obvious
this is such a perfect example of how cancerous this mindset is. and this tweet went viral as well
actually insane
It's not even hidden.
It's in a cave tunnel, which you must progress through to get to the 8th gym in Blackthorn City.
It's not only visible from the main path, but there's an NPC who literally says to you that the item over there is the Waterfall HM and REFUSES TO LET YOU PASS until you go back to get it. If that's not telegraphed, I don't know what is.
He's either a moron or a troll. Or both.
>Treating the remake like the original games
I never had trouble finding it as a dumb 8 years old but the old man only halts your movement on the remakes.
The moron who claimed it was hidden referred to HG/SS specifically, where it was mandatory but also forced. In G/S/C it wasn't forced, but it also wasn't mandatory.
this is untrue btw
in the original gold/silver it's missable but the game doesn't require it at any point, in hgss the npc literally will not let you leave the cave until you do baby's first ice puzzle and get the HM
In Red and Blue, you can't get past Fuschia without getting Strength and Surf. Both involve the Safari Zone. Whatever happened to exploring for the sake of exploring?
I'm too old to care about realism, videogames are videogames, the issue is that Black person will say this and then claim we need top graphic tech for realism for sales reasons
The paint should've been toggleable at the very least, or at least have it look like blood stains or some shit. I also like how the DLC is the only time they ever think to use it in a puzzle or anything.
Depends on the game
modern hardcore gamers would die if they had to play morrowalk or wizardry
Wizardry is an example of a bad design that lasted far too long. It's deathly allergic to any QOL because any time any developer tries to improve on it players who wanted more Wizardry hate it, and everyone else doesn't want it because it's too much like Wizardry. Blobbers deserved to move away from that formula because holy shit it's antiquated.
>It's deathly allergic to any QOL
Funny since later Wizardries received good amount of QOLs.
The only reason I don't play blobbers is because they're blobbers. I don't mind (and even enjoy) autistic mechanics and <anything> management, but still using static portraits to represent the characters is just lazy.
point and click games used to get raked over the coals for having magic pixel hunts and as a consequence every game ever since has had to bend over backwards for people who don't want to spend more than 2 seconds trying to figure out what to do next
yes, it outs morons who can't play games without having everything color coded
Doesn't bother me. Plus it triggers autists that complain about everything so win/win.
It's fine game design really. It's just enough to tell you what you can interact with and despite what some people might say, it honestly really isn't that distracting. It does it's job by guiding the player along the game and that's a good thing.
>t's just enough to tell you what you can interact with
A ladder existing in the game world isn't enough for you to go check it out?
All that's needed is proper contrast between interactable objects and the environment. There's an infinite amount of ways to do it. Yeah the yellow paint does the job but it's just kinda cliché
cliche how? Only Resident Evil does that and they've only been doing it since RE7 Something cliche would be highlighting the ladder with a glowing sprite or something like that
Ways to do it in order from best to worst:
>Have an in-universe munitions or shipping company, put their logo on the boxes so you know there's ammo inside at a glance
>At some point put an ammo box in the player's path so they have to break it to get out of a room or something, then they know that boxes are breakable and can have ammo
>Make the breakable boxes a lighter shade so they stand out from the environment subtly
>Put a thin outline around breakable objects
>Cover objects in bright yellow paint
Or scale your games graphics to how real it actually is. RE4 graphics... no unbreakable things that would be easily broken IRL no invisible walls
would it really be that hard to just have an option to toggle it off? having to color it in brightly colored paint/tape just shows they couldnt design the game in a way to guide the player more subtly and contrast the interactable environment with the interactable
It wouldn't do shit, game devs would still design the whole game with it in mind.
It's like being able to turn off the magical quest compass in skyrim, you can do it but the game isn't designed for it being turned off
In the case of RE though it was literally never needed, you can find this stuff just as easily without it, it's just an "accessibility" feature for idiots.
No because its like this because games are made by shitty level designers. The neon paint is a crutch and like most modern media, they assume the players are on drugs, alcohol or both.
>they assume the players are on drugs, alcohol or both.
Not that far off tbqhwyfamalamadingdong
>One singular game journo can't find the only interactable in a room
>Makes an article about how shit the game is
>Now every player in every game has to suffer with the curse of the dev cum.
I didn't know Google had sense of humor
You think this is funny? A cal-arts man is mutilating himself and you're laughing?
>modern
This has been since even before ps3, tourist
No. The DLC is a linear path. It's completely unnecessary
Old RE games needed that feature because we were wasting time clicking walls for a secret item or something. New games seems intuitive enough without it.
hey guys, how did boomers play Fallout 1 which didn't have magic paint and managed to find items and interactable stuff?
To be fair moving your cursor until the icon changes is a lot faster and easier than hoofing around a 25 square meter room looking for the path forward when the room is designed such that it technically had 6 exits but 5 of them are conveniently behind rubble that you can't remove, and 1 of them is behind rubble that you can remove with a lever on the other side of said room. Also the lever is in the dark. But didn't you have fun walking around this room that the studio spent 3 months creating?
I just moved my mouse all over until the icon changed.
some shit is literally impossible to find in f1 without looking it up, I had to look up basic things like "how do you sleep in a bed, how do you heal crippled limbs, how do you do xyz" and then be met with an answer that either didnt make sense to me, or only made sense after I was already familiar with the mechanics, granted I played the new ones first, but it doesn't detract from the obtuse mechanics
>the doctor can't see you until morning comes, 8 am
Well ok, guess I'll sleep through the night in one of these beds... except I can't seem to, in fact I don't think you can sleep in this game
>to pass the time you have to open the map, click on the clock
>I have a broken limb, I'll get the medic to fix it
>"you're fine"
>to fix a broken limb you have to use the medic skill until it gets fixed
these are things that may seem obvious once you've played enough, but if it's your first time playing a GURPS type game, you will have no clue what's going on or how to approach challenges,
F2 addressed a lot of the issues F1 had, not just the bugs and glitches, but a lot of the gameplay related challenges which made traversing california much easier. And by the time you play f2 you're already aware of the game design philosophy you need to keep in mind in order to navigate the world.
F1 and 2 however were designed when games were almost exclusivly played by nerds, so its not fair to compare a mass market game (that can be played on your phone now) with a computer (niche) game (niche-niche) for dnd nerds that played gurps systems (niche x3)
My least favourite thing in F1 is that you get told off very early in the game for trying to steal things (from the doctor in shady sands) but you're totally expected to just grab most items you see from there onwards
it almost always happens as a consequence of playtesters not being able to get past certain parts, i didnt like it at first but eventually I grew to appreciate not wasting time trying to click everything to see what was interactive and what wasn't, especially with crates.
I would not call it "good game design", but it's not bad, also sometimes it's not yellow paint, but blood or grime
It's good game design to have something to indicate what you can interact with, but there has to be some way that does it without sacrificing the game's visual style. It'd be fine when the other RE remakes did it because the games took place in cities, where it'd make sense that some shit would be marked with yellow paint and yellow caution tape and shit like that, but some bumfrick town and ancient castles have no reason to have it and very obviously stand out because it's out of place and distracting, not because it's good game design. If all games put a giant blinking red arrow where you had to go, people would hate it even if it's technically a good idea to indicate where you are supposed to go.
Good level design doesn't need a blinking arrow because it naturally leads you around. Disneyland doesn't need a blinking arrow to help you get from land to land.
no
Do normalgays not see this and think what the frick?
Normalgays think
>it is literally good game design to do this lmao
They don't think they've been told that and they repeat it over and over
Same thing with UX homosexuals
normalgays dont think, anon
the moby dick movie with Pat Stew is how most normies think about moby dick
stupid take, games are not made just to be played, theyre made to be sold. otherwise they wouldnt have remade 4 at all, theyd just say get good and play the og game
when you see these obvious ones 100% of the time i guarantee you the reason why is
>qa kept getting stuck in this part
>otherwise they wouldnt have remade 4 at all
Good
The REmakes are fricking shit
>games are not made just to be played, theyre made to be sold
and if they're not good, I won't buy them.
>"hurr but everyone will just chase normie money!"
that's like saying McDonald's will drive quality restaurants out of business. customers like myself will always be willing to pay slightly more for higher quality, and there will always be people willing to work a little bit harder to appeal to that niche audience.
so the people who make slop are irrelevant to me, and anyone who likes quality games. the idea that my standards have to be compromised in order to enjoy products that aren't aimed at me is ludicrous. if capcom makes shit now there are plenty of other devs that I'll buy from instead.
>and if they're not good, I won't buy them.
Don't misunderstand me anon, I agree. I don't purchase games I don't want to support for the same reason I don't buy mcdonalds, they're shit.
I would much rather buy food from a local eatery than go and get processed shit. The price is usually lower than a restaurant and the meals are served with care by the owner instead of some wagie, just like AAA games, you can practically taste the love they put into their craft. Indie games are much much better nowadays than AAA because normies don't appreciate the love put into games, so they stop putting it in; of course you have exceptions with devs who genuinely care about their games like maybe Fromsoft, but it's usually the small studios.
I personally prefer indie games because they give me the same vibe old games give off, when it was nerds making games for nerds so they put a lot of care into making a game they themselves wanted to play, instead of ticking boxes off.
This is the part where you have to go into the lab area with the butterfly right? I could imagine people getting confused there since you are running back through the place you cleared as Leon, but that area did not exist in Leon's run.
But Ada also says something about going down below or something which should have been enough of a hint.
they should have given Ada fatter breasts, like this webm
it is because of a multitude of reasons
first and foremost detail in levels is so sense nowadays that interactable items and background items blend together seemlessly so its not as easy to discern what i can interact with as with games 20 years ago
secondly you can quickly discern where to go and what to do without GUESSING which items in the background are interactable and important since if we assume everything is interactable, it quickly becomes frustrating if we cant find the one interactable thing in the clutter of background items, specially since most games do not make random items interactable.
there are a lot of other reasons why this is good game design
The question that you are asking is "is it elegant to do it this way?" no because most of the time the coloring makes no sense in the game world.
the clear inbetween would be to have painted interactable objects on normalgay (first run) and easygay mode
while harder modes get rid of it
Sounds pretty annoying tbh, RE4's professional mode challenge puts all of it's emphasis on the combat, removing the paint just adds a pointless annoyance onto the run
just make it an option I can turn off for the love of god
it would take one of their mook programmers and texture artists like 1 extra production day to make it a toggle for the look
>it’s good game design to do this
aka ‘i watched a game design video essay on youtube’
Almost everyone who uses "game design" online is a fricking moron who has no idea what game design is.
Not that visual cues aren't game design but the homosexual is clearly moronic anyways.
It's a game, it should be treated like a cartoon
The cel is a brighter object than the background
oh nonono re4slop bros
There are mods to remove the yellow paint, by the way. But the yellow paint is necessary for modern games because they are too stupid to realize what they can interact with and move on.
jesus
Yellow paint is needed because it's arbitrary for what is interactable, not for ladders but definitely for interactable ledges.
To be fair, it is necessary because they have things that are intractable and then the exact same object that isn't.
They need to have it be consistent, all ladders climbable etc. Because the fact that it is a ladder indicates it is climbable.
Or maybe video games should incorporate some of Chekhov into their design.
They wouldn't be as bloated, cluttered, would end up with lower reqs. Win/win.
But has it been updated for SW?
the worst part is that you get fricking contextual icon when you'll get close to breakable/interactive item
I know normies are moronic but they're not that moronic ffs
I actually don't mind the yellow paint, at least I won't miss any box or barrel
for game jurnos yes
Do you need bright colors to identify the ladder as climbable? It's RE. So no, no you don't, and you've made the scenery moronic in your efforts.
This one was so bad I took a screenshot.
Someone blew up the box of mustard
?si=nkAkThpWQoCtrKF3
Who's doing it? Who's going around smearing paint on random shit?
I hope he gets his own spinoff game
reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z02XZu9TgcE
>Yellow paint is now illegal, treason punishable by death
>not using the nude mod for Ada
This board is overrun by homos
They could at least have put in a couple of empty cans of paint to make it look like someone accidentally spilled them over the ground and never bothered cleaning up.
Why didn't they just remove the giant fricking shrub right in front of the ladder?
WELCOME BACK TO KENTUCKY BALLISTICS TODAY WE'RE SHOOTING MUSTARD WITH A 4BORE
that one is bad but this one is the worst imo. this lever stood out well enough already as it was in a well lit/small area and it was pretty impossible to miss. they could've just made the handle yellow but no they had to literally douse it in paint. if capcom is going to be this egregious about it they should at least add a toggle. they had it right in the older titles where intractable stuff would shine or sparkle. wtf happened?
Jesus christ lmao
If it were blood, people would still complain. I'm confident.
Yeah I would because it would still be fricking stupid to have blood on literally every interactive object. If you're doing this at least make it like a joke where the main character's hands get gradually more yellow as the game progresses.
See it's posts like this that twist my face into disgust.
BLOOD in a video game being used to indicate location and objectives is now bad.
What you need to do is vary it up. Have blood occasionally, lighting hints occasionally, camera framing occasionally, maybe even yellow tape occasionally if you've run out of other options. It really just feels artificial because it's so consistent. There's more than 1 way to get a player's attention.
I would rather blood tell me something is wrong with a situation than have no visual cue whatsoever. I don't want to play through a Nightmare on Elm street vidya.
i would have less of a problem with it if it was blood because the yellow is such a fricking EYESORE and rips me out of the experience. that being said though no matter if its blood or yellow paint its still fricking lazy. a game with well thought out level design or art direction wouldn't have to have these handicaps because the player should naturally be led to whatever the dev wants them to do/interact with. the problem is, the image i posted with the lever was literally at a dead end and the fire next to it made it very well lit and obvious. to me that just shows that capcom is trying to pander to the lowest common denominator (dsp) and has no faith in their players
You're the reason RE5 had black tentacle zombies!
what am i looking at
At the end of the day it's not that big of a deal, especially in a game as stupid as RE4. It's not like I'm going to enjoy the game any less... but come on rofl.
It's way more distracting than a simple button prompt like
, so why even bother trying to make it diegetic.
Both these people are dumb because they are both acting like it's an either or situation. You either have the yellow paint there or you have nothing. The guy saying "it's good game design to do this" thinks the ONLY thing they can do to achieve this is yellow paint and the original tweet makes it seem like there shouldn't be anything there. It's insane because The Last of Us literally used the yellow marker thing 10 years ago and it's still probably the only game to actually do it well because it was genuinely considered when designing locations.
>Place ladder you can pick up next to street that uses yellow for the lane lines
>Car you can push to climb a ledge is a broken down taxi
>window you can break is right next to yellow graffiti
>wires you have to reconnect to power open a thing use yellow extension cords you have to follow
It gets shit on in this game in particular because it does literally nothing to match the setting and is ugly as sin because of it, not because the practice itself is bad.
they had to use yellow paint for ladders in RE4 because they made bad decisions with lighting for areas and didn't want to change it so they just slapped the paint to do what lighting should've been used for.
Why didn't they just make the ladder a brightly colored ladder? The paint is moronic.
Just put a visible item where ever the ladder leads and people will naturally think to climb it.
If you need colors to tell you where to go you're a moron
Daily reminder to secondaries OG RE4 never needed to use yellow paint.
It's actually for the ganados
livestock players
I use the mod that removes the yellow paint, game is already piss easy, only paste drinking morons need the paint.
Things like this should only exist on game journalist difficulties.
Players not knowing which objects they can interact with shouldn't tell you that you need to slather objects in paint, but that purely contextual environmental interactivity shouldn't exist in the first place.
God beware the player might get lost for 20 seconds.
Very interesting thread, and there is so much to unpack. But I will say this, video games have always been about interaction and the player having this tendency to explore, experiment, adapt and so on. I think the yellow paint deliberately telling players what to interact with defeats the purpose of that "will" or agency that should be borne out of yourself. Yes, I'm an oldgay, yes even though sometimes in the past frustration did arise, my and other players tendency and how we played games, was with a massive drive to conquer the game. Even though we barely had internet or other media which told us what to do. We always came back to the game fresh the next day to experiment and try something new. I think this is why games in general today are boring, everything is giving to the player and if you get frustrated, you can easily go online and find a solution without using your head and figuring shit out which eventually your brain rewards you big time if you do so.
Another thing is that people are lazy today and expect their entertainment to do the job of having fun for you. When in the past you made your own fun within the game. I don't think it has nothing to do with realism, just lazy gays.
>game requires 200+ IQ
You can accomplish the same thing with lighting, visual cues, and level design that naturally leads people towards objectives. Most games already do, "paint the way forward" they just don't make it that obvious.
Good game design would be adding it to the suite of accessibility tools, but it's way too obvious and jarring to paint all the interactables in your world like this especially when you're trying to be realistic and immersive. Because now anything that isn't painted yellow will immediately just be considered set dressing. Essentially everything in this image has been turned into white noise with the yellow ladder being the only actual thing in this area.
Yeah, it just kinda makes it blatant to the player how narrow their options actually are, and to only pay attention to objects smeared with neon paint and disregard literally everything else.
No it's good, "placating to play testing and focus groups" design that is killing vidya. If I a see another fricking "yellow paint splatter" edge in a game....
It was already bordering on unnecessary in RE4, but Separate Ways just makes it absurd.
Just have the yellow cum in easy mode only.
Yes, but there are more subtle ways to do it.
Splattered paint is one solution but it should not be used repeatedly. There's a huge variety of ways to draw the player's attention to a specific area/object.
That's the same moron that couldn't find the HM in HG/SS's extremely linear ice cave.
I noticed this problem with Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. One area had desks covered with junk to look realistic, I wondered if there was any item to pick up there, but it was impossible to know what could be interacted without moving all over to see what got highlighted. Later went back to the original Deus Ex, and it looked simpler but was functionally superior: much less clutter, you know with a glance what can be interacted.
Looks horrible and insulting.
i miss when the things you could interact with stood out because they were noticeably higher detail than everything else. the damage HD graphics have done to AAA games is immense.
Example A of why popular shit is always garbage
It's garbage. I installed that mod that removes paint for my first playthrough and it made absolutely no difference.
*in gameplay
I played with the paint later on and all it did was make shit ugly, I didn't find a single item I missed before.
It's funny because most games don't have to use this gay shit but remaketards will defend this is the only way games can be done period.
If the player agency is gone: no it's not good game design.
If the player agency is kept intact: yes it is good game design.
The problem isn't the yellow paint. The paint could easily be blood and people would still complain. If players feel like they are forced to interact with bloody objects then it does set a precedent for controversy. The yellow paint being there just indicates that players are forced to interact with objects that do nothing special, nor help with progress. So in a lot of ways, it is good game design because the player agency is still intact; players can still do what they want to do. But in another sense, it creates discomfort, because it basically upends the whole point of using your visual cues for progress.
you have to consider your audience, the average IQ these days is hovering somewhere around 75
>tutorial level
>get the player into a cramped corridor where the only thing to do is push forward and reach a ladder at the end
>proceed to climb up ladder
>now i know ladders can be interacted with in this manner
wow so hard! and before some homosexual says that ladders and other objects would be difficult to locate in a more open level with clutter everywhere, there are other ways to guide the player in subtler ways besides godawful white or yellow paint
Is the Remake worth buying? I have played the original to death and think it would be interesting to see it presented in a different way. I like how the original plays with the tank controls. It feels kind of clunky but you can master it and weave through enemies and use roundhouse kicks for crowd control. It’s fun and it feels like it has some depth/ability to play stylish. Obviously the remake plays differently, but is it’s gameplay/weapon variety good enough to support lots of replay value? Original RE4 is endlessly replayable for me.
I like the remake more because it improves a lot of sections and removes filler. OG RE4 lasts too fricking much, every time I play it I keep thinking i'm gonna get to a cool chapter and instead just keeps going and going with not so cool chapters.
It depends on the audience.
I can't recall a ladder in the game that doesn't work, so I don't know why they did that. It should have been an accesibility option in the menu.
Camera should be lower.
They just had to make interactable objects glow on baby easy modes, and that should be turned off on normal or higher
And while they're at it, make the bear traps and tripwire bombs easier to spot, why don't they.
Nothing that insults the player's intelligence is good design. There are several things they could have done that make more sense than splashing bright yellow "over here you fricking moron" paint all over everything.
No. It's the supposed best UX design practices perpetuated by morons so many times it got exaggerated.
At some point one of these artisty tumblr type fricks said "hey maybe we could make this little object a bit more distinct so people know they can interact with it". And in some cases, a little visual cue is definitely handy. You might want to know the actual exit to an area at a glance if there are multiple similar doors for example.
But then of course there are those who are even more moronic and think this should be implemented everywhere, every game, for every possible interactable object. Then over time it becomes even MORE moronic because every one of these artistic tumblr shits want to leave their own mark on the industry. So these little visual cues become exaggerated over time to the point you have BRIGHT YELLOW LADDERS to show you that yes, the only ladder in this tiny room with no other way out, is the ladder you can climb.
JUST MAKE THE STAIRS RED PAINTED METAL SO IT NOT ONLY POPS, BUT ALSO LOOKS LIKE PART OF THE WORLD!
Fricking Half Life 1 got this in late 90s, this smeared paint is the worst solution
>Seething at yellow paint
Touch grass virgins.
I'll take yellow paint any day over Black folk and trannies in my video games.
It's bad game design to add clutter to the environment that can't be used. Games don't need to tackle real life so badly that it confuses the player of what is and is not interactable.
>OP:FP = 63:52
Woah.
It's less time consuming than making a separate setting for half blind people that puts that yellow paint on things you can interact with or having to deal with the complaints post-release.
And yes, some people need that.
Just make it glow or something. Trying to come up with diagetic hints like this for immersion is fricking stupid when there's no reason something would just randomly be slathered in yellow paint.
Even more annoying is that they don't make it fit in with the game. RE7 used yellow paint/tape but it was actually visually consistent with the setting of that game, so it was less immersion-breaking. Nothing about RE4 or Village suggests there should be yellow paint spilled everywhere, the colour palette and setting are completely different
I first realized this shit with Dead Space in wich they made a line to show you where you had to go and in bioshock in wich everything usable was fricking glowing.
Zero exploration, I hate casual gamers.
And I wont play shitty remakes btw.
IMO Dead Space is fine because you can just never press R3 ever if you don't want to (except for the one time it tutorial prompts you), so it's completely optional, which is how it should be in RE4 instead of forced on you. Dead Space also made it fit for the in-game logic by having it be a function of the RIG which was smart, unlike RE4 where it makes no sense in universe
you are right it makes sense in dead space but what I mean is that's when I began to notice it was too easy to explore, and then with cod and all the pointers and meters to the objective... I understand that people may not have much time to play now but this is too much.
that same person complaining about the paint would also be complaining about not being able to find the ladder if there was no paint. devs cater to morons (including journalists) to keep them from complaining about shit that should never be an issue, but the morons always have something to complain about.
gamers are moronic Black person cattle. its for the best.