Is this right? As much as I love Fallout NV's writing if everything Caesar says is wrong fundimentally then the Legion is even more half-baked than I ever knew.
Is this right?
Is this right? As much as I love Fallout NV's writing if everything Caesar says is wrong fundimentally then the Legion is even more half-baked than I ever knew.
Low testosterone thread
sounds like a (false flag) shitpost or a mad redditor. basically an sjw type/adjacent person getting mad at something in a fictional setting, said by one of the harsher faction's leader.
literally someone getting mad (or a false flag shitpost for lulz) at a video game character like it's real life
I'd agree only if I hadn't played FNV again recently to see how actually soi'ish it actually is
it reads exactly like something some autist would post here, in fact the pasta even uses the word "post" within it.
also hegel's dialectics were based on fichte's work so hopefully that tantrum is just someone being ironic
how new are you
Except we have a thread every day about someone getting mad, what makes this one any different?
this is funny as frick
>newbie not realizing it's pasta
you need to have a nice day right now
It's cringe because it's "le epic rant"
It's wrong/stupid because Caesar is obviously a guy who gets off being philosophical and he has just picked up some shit here and there skimming through books in a post-apocalyptic world, his understanding of the source material isn't going to be the same as some autistic frick who studied it in an academic setting for years
I think the point is Caesar is dumb just like philosophy in general
So the way you're expected to digest Caesar's ideology is understanding it's a hodgepodge of surface level philosophy from across different people and branches? Sounds like who Xavier: Renegade Angel's titular main character is, like for example assuming that if a computer virus infected reality, than a real world virus would subdue that computer.
It makes sense because the man who picks and chooses what old systems to try would be based on a man who knows only pockets of these philosophies.
I wouldn't know that's how this is meant to come off. Granted
>multiple routes for multiple different mindsets and choosing whay path suites you more means things are and will be open ended
But there's clearly intent with a lot of the information. And that only leads me to believe even stronger that if Caesar's foundation is wrong then he's not someone with a decent viable but flawed method, he's doing a lot of human rights violations in the name of progress incorrectly. Incorrect foundations lead to incorrect conclusions.
Caesar (as well as NCR and real life tyrants) primarily seek power and try to shoehorn in some philosophical or ideological justification second.
>A Leftist was here
>How can tell?
>Many words
Leftist devs. Leftist game. Simple as.
>50 millions to build infrastructure lasting for centuries... LE BAD
>50 billions to the black hole of gov funded corporations... WAOH!
That black hole goes heavily towards social security, healthcare, national parks, roadways, etc. Things might not be the best they can be but damn theres a difference in that comparison.
>why did people stop building pretty buildings?
>UHHM, BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS CASTLES, CHUDD
he thought he had a witty comeback, but he completely missed the point. twitter should have long captchas so that people get to actually think their post through before clicking post
>LOOK AT THIS TWITTER POST AND GET MAD
Why do you do this? Why do you waste your life away staring at moronic social media posts and posting them on Ganker to get validation?
>get mad
Except Josh is right. I love laughing at moronic RETVRNgays.
>A moron was here
>How can you tell?
>They're afraid of words
Only a moron would read a 200 word essay of another moron. Go read a self-help book or whatever is on the "best-seller" on amazon since you have so much time to waste.
>only a moron would read
Found the moron.
based, warriors don't read books
Not much of a warrior if you spend all your time on Ganker, are you?
nonsense, it's a battlefield out here.
>Leftist here
>How tell?
>words
>Leftists
>How?
>Words
>
>?
>
Caesar doesn't actually care about dialectics and this point is explicitly made in game, no need for ebin reddit rant. He just needs to pimp the idea of a philosophical system to get the midwits to serve under him as middle management for the savages whose recruitment did not require such articulation.
You know shit like "Work-Life balance" and all that related to corpojews trying to convince people to return to the office after experiencing the work-from-home life for several years? Yeah, that's our real life equivalent of Caesar's use of the "Hegelian dialectic."
>Yeah, that's nice, now stand still while I attach your collar
I haven't read Hegel, but I've seen it, it's kind of a common "mistake." Even Akechi from Persona 5 mentions the same concept of dialectic. Ultimately it seems to be more the writer's fault than Caesar as a character.
Considering this is the post apocalypse and Caesar maybe only had access to paragraphs or maybe chapters of Hegel, I say he got a pretty good grasp on it
Who cares, at least the guy can explain himself, even if he is worng on some level. The faction leaders of the commonwealth can't even do that
You are an abomination of science! You should die!
Why did I made synths to replace humans? You wont get it.
Why universe like that? So you can ask. No. I will not answer.
>The faction leaders of the commonwealth can't even do that
Let's see if I can from memory deduce what the goals of the faction leaders are:
BOS: Destroy the synth menace (AI running amok and being used against civilization) and get a hold over technology to make civilization safe again for humanity (and not super mutants, ferals, ghouls, etc)
The Railroad: Help robot refugees
>(lmao the brainwashing that has to take place in order to even make you consider that robots can even be compared to people)
Minutemen: Be there for anyone who needs help within 60 seconds
The Institute: Rebuild humanity by first getting robot sentries to map out the surface, figure out the landscape, understand what factions are at play and how they can be played against each other, etc etc, so they can then use that information to one day move back to the surface and take control, by force (synth armies) if necessary, with the help of all the data they gathered.
The game will try to tell you what you should think about each faction but you ought to be your own judge and this is what I've taken away from it. But oh ho ho wait a minute the one faction leader said something that makes him cartoonishly bad better write the entire faction off as evil (as if the writers couldn't help but throw their own opinions into it by making one or more characters cartoonishly weighted in one direction in order to get you to do the opposite)
The Legion is just violence vented on the wasteland with the vague hope that it'll payoff in the end. It's supposed to be a nonsense solution to a problem that very undersrandably drives people over the edge. He's post-apocalyptic Colonel Kurtz.
This. No part of the Legion of Caesar is meant to be a good thing.
>join the legion
>get stoned to death cuz your higher up fricked up
epic
Exactly. Those are the kind of rules idiots make, and Caesar DOES only have 4 INT
That's the point. The Caesar is supposed to be a pseud who uses his limited (and mostly wrong) knowledge of history and philosophy to justify his atrocities and impress wastelanders who know even less.
Why is the troony cope for every game and setting “it’s satire” when a view they disagree with is painted as a legitimate, albeit deadly, ugly and brutal option for humanities survival. same shit happens with warhammer
Because they have a brain to see the flaws of the view presents. Namely that Caesar's cult is purposefully built on lies of a false history and legacy. Caesar himself doesn't even keep up with the pretense he forces his trbals into.
Genocide and Slavery. Most people tend to appreciate Rome in a historical sense were someone to attempt to make a New Rome through the same tactics, they'd be horrified. Caesar is a present threat within the game
>muh genocide
They had it coming. Carthago delenda est.
>muh slavery
It wasn't really that bad. Slavery came in many forms and the Roman way was humane.
Roman slavery literally wasn’t bad, it was easy to become a citizen after years of hard work. Debt slavery and capitalism is far more harsh than Roman slavery, even worse our children are born into it
>thinking warhammer's imperium isn't satire
I'm tempted to fall for the trap again and say you know absolutely nothing about the people who made it, nor science fiction overall but you'd probably take it as a compliment.
The imperium is not satire, yes it’s way it over the top and insane, but the whole point of the setting is that the galaxy is so so fricked up and harsh that humanity literally needs that fricked up dystopian fascist system to survive, it’s literally the only chance or hope for humanity.
The imperium is painted as a legitimate and necessary state, a satire wouldn’t do that.
no the point of the imperium is that its some goofy heavy-metal type shit just like everything else in 40k
Reductio ad absurdum.
Same ends though, your whole point is you don’t care about the violent and barbaric means as long as in the end it stops.
No dude absurdum ad absurdum its pure dark fantasy none of it is supposed to be taken seriously.
I told you I'm not falling for it. Educate yourself instead of repeating what you've heard online from your equally ignorant peers.
You’re just repeating the internet troony cope. Literally no one called 40k or the imperum satire 15 years ago. The only time it was ever satire was maybe first edition when it was totally goofy and non serious
You're an argumentative moron.
40k's setting was always a joke. Its why there is an entire faction of green football hooligans
You’re literally coping but whatever helps you sleep at night and enjoy your plastic toys.
I hope you learned something today.
>The Imperium is not satire
I would hope that his only argument for why it isn't being calling people trannies would be proof enough he doesn't have a clue but there's a sucker born every minute I guess.
of course its satire its comedy but theres no overarching point to any of it nor any overarching message its just all based on the rule of cool and whatever the people making that particular thing think is funny at the time.
Not him but 40k stopped being satire almost a decade and a half ago. They started being earnest with it, and that's when it loses it's satire chops.
Who said anything about satire? Caesar is a character with clear limits.
>hometown is getting by with some major hiccups such as infrastructural problems and corruption
>go to city hall and take a huge dump on the steps
>police have trouble finding me
>take every single dump on the steps of city hall
>city finally adapts by having a guy stand around whose sole job is to mop up the shit
>by shitting at town hall, I have acted as the dialectical antithesis, and the city's adaptation is the more efficient synthesis that has created a better society
What does the legion do that’s even bad by post nuclear standards or ancient standards? The real Roman Empire was way more violent and evil but everyone loves them and thinks they were epic civilization builders.
The legion does indeed have no culture right now or anything to stand on if caeser dies, but his whole point, which he explains is that he will build that stuff when his legion gets their rome, new vegas
They're just underwritten. You don't really get a good picture of Legion life. At best you get some flavor text about how traders can roam in Legion territory freely since it's safer. I think the image the writers wanted to portray was severity/violence as a trade off for relative safety, but they didn't ahve to time to actually depict that. So you just get a view of wartime/slaver/misogynist Legion without seeing what that tradeoff would be.
There's already proper civilization in NCR, BoS, Followers (where Caesar came from) etc. that didn't need him to come about. It's not Fallout 1 with nothing but tribes and villages in a sea of raiders anymore. Caesar's radical methods are unnecessary.
I remember someone saying that Caesar thinks he's Rome as he acts like Atilla and it fits so perfectly I have to assume it was intentional.
Edward's merry band of larpers has nothing to do with Rome in culture, politics, logistics, military, law... Anything, really.
It's the mongol hordes with a roman coat of paint over the sport gear.
Also, crying about Rome makes you a butthurt subhuman and invalidates your opinion.
Its fascism, its a pyramid scheme with machismo instead of money.
Rome arose because Greece fell, New Vegas is, compared to the state of the wasteland, fairing really well. You literally have to force House to have no hydroelectric power or water from the Dam in order to frick him over. He is not in the state Greece was when they collapsed and Rome rebuilt. Swallow's conquest model is unstainable, this has been adressed many times by fans and commentors alike. It is unstainable because at the time the Legion produces no primary exports worthy of trade, only farms to sustain their own colonies, and their main civilization lies too far east that the Mojave front are too disconnected to rely on them in a timley manner.
The benifite the post-war wasteland has is the predicated information of the world and its systems that occured beforehand. Even the hyper-capitolist autocrat House or the regressive holier-than-thou Brotherhood of Steel don't condone slavery. War and killing does need to occur in order for civilizations knocked back down into primative means to stabelize unfortunately, but we don't need to resort to EVERYTHING the Legion does as
states.
> Rome arose because Greece fell
Stupid and wrong way to look at history. Greece didn’t fall, rome rose during the Hellenistic era, the era of total Greek dominance from Greece all the way to India
Nothing really happens for a reason things happen and we assign reason to them. Rome rose because ceasar salad took the world by storm.
> Nothing really happens for a reason things happen and we assign reason to them.
The most brainless pseud thing I’ve read in a long time. Lots of things directly happen for reasons, cause and effect is very very real
Ancient Rome did that on a way way way way way way way larger scale, modern Muslims do way worse then that right now but you still want to import them to your country and live with them
>but you still want to import them to your country and live with them
Only the ones that accept and adopt the rules of our country to the standards our law requires. If they wish to do this shit then I do not want them to come to my country or at least want them to change that belief before coming here. Get out of here with that paradox of tolerence nonesense.
And the legion will change their ways once they take new vegas chud, Caesar (pbuh) said so himself.
>immigrants adopting to less varbaric cultural standards as they integrate with a different society is equivilant to invading, conquering, and enslaving the citizens of that society
>as they integrate
lol he doesnt know
name one society israelites integrated into
He is attempting to replicate something similar to what was achieved by the Visigoths, Vandals, Franks, Saxons, and Ostrogoths.
And Normans.
Indeed.
Not the Norman’s. They were as civilized if not more than the anglos they conquered. What that anon was describing is barbarian hordes invading a high civilization and adapting to their standards after their conquest. The Normans just fought an ordinary succession war for a throne and brought their own civilization and culture with them
The Normans were Norse Vikings that integrated into French society, anon.
Yes in the 800’s anon, and by 1066 they were literally just French people
Internet addicted leftoids don’t understand history, they don’t understand the idea of understanding how people in different time periods thoughts, they judge everything and everyone of every time and every possible time by modern atheist humanist morality standards
Cool, I still don't approve of it being done today.
>you dont care about it, you just want it to stop
What did he mean by this?
Read the rest of the sentence and perhaps you’ll understand. You don’t care about a group of people behaving violently, as long as they eventually stop and integrate. You don’t mind Muslims doing it in their own country if they stop in yours, thus as the argument follows, you shouldn’t care about the legion doing it right now, as it will stop once they take vegas
It’s very simple to understand, did you hit your head or something?
But I do care about it, it's bad and shouldn't be done. Are you saying I'm obligated to act towards changing things in order to properly have concern? Ate you saying I'm obligated to dedicate my time to ridding the world of what I consider is wrong in order to prove myself worthy of an opinion?
Well it's not being done today moron it's being done in a post apocalyptic future. What are you talking about?
they are the same picture, the first one is just lying to itself
>The real Roman Empire was way more violent and evil but everyone loves them and thinks they were epic civilization builders
probably because the real roman empire actually built a functioning civilization and not a nomadic larp rape horde.
lol
You and everyone else just forever conflates the Greeks and the Romans
The Greeks had a few city-states that were all about philosophy and enlightenment and all that cool culture shit
The Romans had an empire of lead-wine-addled sex pests
You being ignorant to the achievements of roman civilization does not mean they didn't make achievements lmfao.
Rome's primary achievements were being so good at conquering that they destroyed themselves via overextension and building poisonous infrastructure
Rome's primary achievements was having the social organization and sophistication to build and administer an empire at such an unprecedented scale to begin with. Their achievements are well beyond that of any prior civilization in the west as well as any of their peers. They succeeded, quite simply, because they were better than everyone around them.
I didn't see a single marble column anywhere at the Fort. But I saw a lot of red uniforms. And we all know that the red dye is what made Rome great.
>Hegel never used dialectics
>It’s called imminent critique
>but dialectics is part of imminent critique
wut
the guy who made that meme is having a pseud-off with the devs
how fricking dumb are you?
>write that long reddit diatribe while seeting about a fictional character
>forget that harvard doesn't exist in the post-apocalypse
even in the depths of their impotent rants they are wrong
Legionchuds sure are something else, huh?
>Make barbaric rapehorde with zero redeeming quaities
>Steal name and aesthetics of some great empire and nothing else
>Say that you hate women/Black folk/jews
>Chuds now worship you as a god.
caesar's legion is full of Black folk and brown people
judging fallout's lore I don't think any israelites still exists. It's canon to fallout 1 that israel got wiped off the map before the great war even started as well
>zero redeeming qualities
The Legion's redeeming qualities are based entirely in how human it is. Everything in the Legion stems from this place; it stems from knowable human instinct. There is nothing like, say, elaborate systems of banking in Legion society because that sort of thing is not simple enough for a tribal chad to immediately comprehend. It's not "earnest", it may be abused, so it's abolished by stoning anyone who tries it to death. The Legion understands that violence wins out, violence is fun, violence keeps people in line and violence is immediately known by all living people. There is little need for man-made laws when the people accept that violence is a great and terrible king destined to sweep aside all pretention.
>b-but muh savagery
Human nature is inherently savage. The NCR tries to wrangle it with laws, House tries to smother it with machinery, the Brotherhood tries to chain it down with a codex, the Enclave tries to end it through mass genocide. The Legion is the only group in this setting who is capable of admitting to itself "humans are brutal, and they will always yearn for brutality." It manages to do this while also forming a disciplined society (note: disciplined, but not shackled) where violence is not denied but redirected, applied where it may do the most good. The NCR is destined to violence as its population explodes and it runs out of resources to fairly distribute (as well as viable means of earning a wage to purchase them.) House is destined to violence as the tribes he's enslaved yearn for freedom (they already resort to violence, among other base human urges.) Caesar is destined to violence because he's old and misread, and that's just fine, because he is the one leader who's bothered to set the stage for a society not only destined for violence but prepared for it. His Legion is the only group prepared to survive yet another reminder that war is God and violence is his sermon.
All laws and morals exist in opposition to human nature and the legion is full of even more of that than the ncr where you live your life exactly how ceasar-sama commands. The only faction that actually embraces anarchy and human nature is the fiends and they’re unjoinable.
Technically one form of Yes-man embraces true anarchy too
yeah but thats abstracted while the fiends are putting that into practice in game
buddy the point of the legion is literally suck caesars wiener or die the ncr just wants you to pay taxes
>All laws and morals exist in opposition to human nature and the legion is full of even more of that than the ncr
It's really not which is why it's so funny to hear about how evil the Legion is. You basically live in the NCR in real life, yet you apologize on its behalf because you have never tasted the alternative. Your judgment isn't based on anything other than childish consent, basically akin to domesticating a breed of dog.
>you have never tasted the alternative
And you have? Get your head out of your ass and breathe some oxygen instead of methane bro
Of course. It's not difficult to escape your bubble and gain some perspective. Twenty years ago no one would have dreamed of consulting an Afghan for their views on the west; now there's been such a string of disillusionment stemming directly from "western proclivities" that the Afghan's hatred of the west seems more sane than continuing to invest in such an inauthentic, deranged, inhuman farce. The difference between Caesar's Legion and the NCR is as stark as the difference between an Afghan and you, the meager and quietly-doomed citizen who spends his life working to pay taxes to pedophiles.
based diogenes
>actually embraces anarchy
Fiends have leaders.
I'd say Goodsprings is unironically closer to anarchy. Everyone just does something they're good at. No one is a leader.
They are a capitalist village. People have to trade for medical needs, food, and sundries.
Trading doesn't necessary mean capitalism, people traded in feudal societies as well. Besides, Fiends also trade for drugs.
The specifically trade in currency, WITH a barter system. The point of Fallout is that people are stuck with the FALLOUT of their societies choices, the main one being nuclear Fallout. It's why there are no communes.
>The point of Fallout is that people are stuck with the FALLOUT of their societies choices, the main one being nuclear Fallout. It's why there are no communes.
The point of Fallout is showing society rebuilding along different paths. Not wandering wasteland and shooting random raiders.
Capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production. Like the NCR is capitalist because you have people like Ted Gunderson who claim ownership of large swathes of land and so becomes entitled to all cattle raised on that land. I don’t really see much evidence of that in goodsprings. The tavern doesn’t even have rooms for rent and it seems like people just raise their own bighorns. Even the doctor saves your life and heals you without charging you.
Still a privately owned business. Doc Mitchell may be altruistic, but every other interaction without Stat checks requires paying for services.
Or do you think people are allowed to take whatever they want from Chet?
Chet is a trader, he makes his living by being a medium for exchange of goods just like a farmer makes his by growing food from the ground. They’re both living off their own labor.
It's still a capitalist system.
Not necessarily. Not saying it’s definitely not but I don’t see any evidence it is. A capitalist system would be like if Mr House owned the land the ranchers raise their sheep on and then demanded a share of the profit from that, or if he owned the general store and while chet still did all the work house claimed ownership of some or all of the profit.
Capitalism is when you own means of production and let people work for you while you profit. Trudy owns her bar and works there, Chet owns his store and works there, Doc owns his "clinic" and works there.
>Capitalism is
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.
Goodsprings is not a country
>coping intensifies
That definition literally makes no sense for a small settlement
>trading doesn’t mean capitalism
Jesus Christ frick the public school system
from the outside with what info we have it doesn't seem like they have any codes or laws, they have leaders but I like to think they’re just followed because they’re the ones who are still able to think and plan the best with 10 different drugs in their system.
trade isn’t capitalism, its just exchange of resources you don’t need for those you do. Even animals like monkeys and hermit crabs do that.
Not intentionally they don't. Hermit crabs don't discuss with other crabs which shells they may want, and get change if they pick up a shell slightly worse than the one they have. No society. The people of Goodsprings still have to either hunt for their own food, grow it themselves, or buy it from Trudy.
?si=aQqqRztvx02AtxyZ
You think I will watch ROYAL CROWN news? Get the frick out of here.
revel in your ignorance then, just don't expect a pat on the back for it
You can pat my dick no homo
Animals have no concept of ownership. If any of those crabs suddenly died, they would be eating it, and stealing it's shell.
if they had no concept of ownership they'd try to move in or kill each other prior to anyone dying, idiot
Not necessarily. Hermit crabs aren't attacking animals. They are bottom feeders. They eat things already dead or very small.
>animals have no concept of territory (i.e. ownership) actually
how is it stealing if he’s dead?
What do you think an animal's territory is, that they mark and defend from others? Predators like bears taking carcasses from other animals, burying them for later, defending them from scavengers, etc?
thats a very fuzzy line with a lot of implications. The crabs come together to exchange shells, that’s trade. Money is just a representative of abstract value to help facilitate trade because human brains can see more nuance than crab brains.
Death penalty, law:
:^|
Death penalty, Caesar’s decree:
:^O
>His Legion is the only group prepared to survive yet another reminder that war is God and violence is his sermon.
>t.
Didn't know cavemen were able to bypass the captcha
ironically best rebuttal shallow mockery is caving in the jester's head
Ever think that if you build a kind society with cooperstion and the ability to defend against/stop bad actors, you wouldnt have that?
>inb4 "bwahaha, you think peoppe will just be kind?"
Kind enough to function as I stated, look where you are.
>Kind enough to function as I stated, look where you are.
That doesnt lend well to your proposed point at all. You exist in a state where an upper caste uses technological horrors beyond your comprehension to keep everyone in line, with mass violence just narrowly avoided by that caste's vague promise that "some day we might make things better."
Prove to me Oprah Winfrey, Joe Biden, or any other 1% opresses and controls us intentionally or else I'm just cosidering this sour grapes thatbyou have to work for a living and don't have your own mansion.
>umm actually the 1% dont exist
wow you got him bro lmfao
Okay then, explain what exactly people are using, technologically, to oppress people? Is it 5G, you mouth-breathing moron?
>explain what exactly people are using, technologically, to oppress people
banks and currency manipulation
>yeah but can you summarize all 300 years of it right this second? yeah i thought so
A History of Central Banking and the Enslavement of Mankind by Stephen Mitford Goodson
>the 1% don't exsist
>1% do not opresses and controls us intentionally
Can you admit to how these are different claims, you disingenuous shitposter?
>Oprah Winfrey
>Joe Biden
>1%
I'm wheezing. Eyes and ears are wasted on you.
>He doesn't think Oprah of all 1%er isn't capable of mass brainwashing
Did you see the polls where overwhelming majorities of Californians want her to be the next Senator?
Capable is different from doing so. A man holding a loaded gun is capable of killing someone, but that won't take him to trial.
I always read this as Arcade screaming at him.
Funnily enough Arcade's criticisms are actually better aimed at Caesar than an autistic "HEGEL NEVER SAID THAT REEEEEEE!" and criticizes his barbarity is based on the hunch that history works in cycles and something good will inevitably rise from the ashes of these two civilizations collapsing on one another.
I think the compelling part is that Caesar is probably right that just rebuilding the same thing is going to lead to the same outcome, and the NCR is already a gridlocked bureaucratic mess hurtling towards repeating the mistakes of the old USA. I'm not sure throwing a shrug and saying 'why not try to mush the legion and the NCR together and see what happens' is even something remotely resembling a good solution but I can see how a courier raised in that world would could just have that reaction.
Ironically though the Legion then would work if you pick it because then it's most likely next Caesar is a cyborg with an extended lifespan.
1. The legion was never going to absorb the NCR, but destroy it or be destroyed by it
2. The problems with the old world were not "democracy", but warring over resources. Both of the parties in the great war were military autocracies with command economies, one of which was unapologetic and the other of which could barely maintain the facade of representative governance. The NCR has huge problems of course, the issues plaguing their occupation of Nevada are clearly intended as a allegorical to the "war on terror", but the issue is that real world 00's America didn't fricking exist in the fallout timeline, and also, more importantly, that it isn't leaning hard ENOUGH into being an imperial territory. Its issue is trying to act like a neutral partner while also slowly incorporating its surroundings into itself through opportunism and soft power, rather than either stopping and saying "we have enough" or just committing to being imperialistic.
Caesar isn't an all-knowing self-insert, he's a flawed character who nonetheless managed to shape a bunch of uneducated tribals into a competent military force.
Fascinating read. What interview is this from?
It's from a now defunct site called "formspring".
Unfortunate. Any archives of it left? (well, archives of Sawyer i mean)
I only have some screencaps. I think there was a poster on RPGCodex who had it archived, lmao
Also he has a tumblr, if that site still exists. Frog Helms Fan Club.
tangential but u might enjoy https://rpgcodex.net//content.php?id=8416
>tumblr
checks out
Rome is based, Legion is based, stay mad.
Would you still find it based if you were enslaved by legionaries?
With a reminder: Caesar's legion also like raping men.
>The Legion likes to take in the ass
But Legioncucks are into that, anon.
You're not convincing them.
Yes, since it means I turned into a degenerate who shouldn't be allowed to live. End my misery.
Typical contratian.
>plow through whataboutism
>c-contrarian!
To the cross with ye
>Yes,
Legioncucks, everybody.
Why not cut out the middleman and wns it now, "king"?
Don't know what that lingo means homo
hegel was a homosexual trying to make sense of "social change" from his barely post-medieval christian point of view.
The legion is moronic and Caesar is a moron but not because he got the details of philosophical academia wrong, because nobody does or should give a shit. The issue is that he thinks he can make the legion evolve by defeating and absorbing the NCR, even after building their entire culture around the rejection and destruction of foreign thinking and ideals. The only thing that would happen if the legion were to defeat the NCR in California (which is impossible but that's another problem) is the obliteration of the population of the western coast. And if Eddy thinks that he can order otherwise, he's wrong, and clearly needs to read more about actual roman history. The soldiers follow the idea of what they think the caesar is and should be, and will have no issue removing and replacing him with someone who actually represents what "Caesar" is: most likely Lanius. It also doesn't help that Caesar disclosed his brain tumor to the praetorian guard, thus revealing his lack of strength, an excuse for why he might have "gone made", and an act of brazen hypocrisy in using an autodoc while denying his own citizens basic medicine.
Barbarian hordes building a civilization happened seventeen dozen times in recorded history. Rome was literally founded by a bunch of bandits.
The proto-romans were not the Legion. The legion is an entire civilization of brainwashed slaves who take the tenants of their society as seriously as the most fervent religion. They are not going to fundamentally change based on the words and writings of their defeated foes.
>words words words
how compelling, get on the cross now
fricking newbie
>entire point of the faction is its a bunch of embarrassing morons pretending they aren't degenerate morons
>IRL attracts embarrassing morons
lmao
Writing an epic reddit response to Caesar's bullshit from a modern perspective is meaningless. In a role-play of the post apocalyptic time the game is set in, most people would be entirely ignorant of any inaccuracies in Caesar's piecemeal knowledge of history and philosophy.
Not interested in discussing how realistic things are in an alternate universe post-apoc game w/ talking mutants and ghouls. - PH
>modern perspective
I love this so much
we are so fricking delusional and isolated from reality we think it's possible to hold the utterly asanine and suicidal morals we have now in a place with absolutely no rule of law or mass communication
Wrong from a 'info' perspective? Like, 'that wasn't in the textbook, you'd answer wrong on the multiple choice!' perspective?
The question is, are you convinced by his arguments? Who cares about philosophy trivia.
>CAESAR IS DUMB BECAUSE IT WASN'T HEGEL BUT FICHTE
moron, Caesar is wrong because he tries to roll back the advancements of humanity, pretending it doesn't exist... except oh no, since I'm the one that's sick I guess I can use an autodoc!
Caesar is wrong because he's hypocritical, because he couldn't possibly win this war without the courier.
Think about it, NCR?
They could hold the Dam, worse come to worse who do you think House is going to support, even if he lacks the full extent of his robot army?
You think the Khans or the tribes of the strip could even vaguely compare to House's or NCR's alliance?
Or let's say Benny gets in charge, keeping the platinum chip and getting Vegas for his own: eventually he'd figure out a way to get to the robot army and badabum, back to where we started.
The Legion cannot win without the Courier helping them because worse come to worse all the factions in the Mojave that truly matter technologically would be against them.
Plus you think the savages will be kept in check after Caesar inevitably either becomes moronic or dies of cancer?
Granted since he chooses to have his troops be healed with fricking dirt powder instead of proper medication maybe he already has grown moronic to begin with.
To be fair, the point isn't to drive back progress but to create people not overly reliant on technology they can't replicate or addicted to vices that destroy them to create a functioning society. He's very pragmatic when it comes to breaking his alleged values, like the Frumentarii's creation goes against every principle his army holds but they're useful so he makes them an exceptional troop. He's let others use his AutoDoc when he sees them as worthy. His entire goal is hoping that conquering the NCR will lead to a new nation that has the Legion's values with the NCR's "civility"
Yeah but that's the point: he's compromising constantly.
If you have to compromise then your ideology does not hold, right now he's basically at the top of the world because people don't realize how moronic he is, the moment he stops conquering the worst thing that happens is NOT that he ends up lacking resources but that people figure out that hey what the frick are we actually doing?
Also the whole "too reliant on technology" is beyond idiotic because he himself needs technology not to die like the twat he is and the entire empire of the Legion lives or dies by him controlling it: after he's gone the Legion will face the destiny of any big empire losing their one single leader and splinter into small factions.
>NCR would lose the Mojave whithout courier intervention
But would House?
This isn't about "NCR wins over Legion" it's about "Can the Legion succeed in its goal without the Courier?" and the answer is no.
Without the Courier the Legion can certainly send thousands of their people to die in classic zerg rush but all House need to do is compromise and ally with the NCR and oh look, all your zerg rushers are being blown up.
And you think the Boomer wouldn't be otherwise contacted by either House or NCR if the Courier was not around?
The Legion cannot win because they exist only as a warring society: remove the war and how are they going to live?
They are like Mormons except they can't build shit, they only raid.
Plus how would they deal with the various issues the Mojave already has?
Powder Gangers would absolutely be as much as a problem to them as they were to the NCR.
Super Mutants would absolutely steamroll their low technology troops with extreme ease.
Good luck getting anywhere close to the Boomers.
The BoS would be eradicated but not after causing devastating damage.
House would sooner blow the entirety of the Strip before handing it over to savages, good luck chucking spears at Securitrons.
NCR losing is not Legion winning.
And I want to add: consider that most of the Mojave's true resources rely in the location of a lot of next level technolgy, all which the Legion rejects.
Case in point for the BoS: the Legion eradicating the BoS is only a cost, since they would then refuse to use their technology, even if Caesar came up with another moronic compromise of "WELL I GUESS ME AND MY 5 BUTTBUDDIES CAN USE THEM AFTER ALL" except even then Power Armor requires training to use. and oh no you killed all the teachers.
>legion can't win whiteout the courier
It's the other way around, the NCR would lose the Mojave whithout courier intervention, and badly. The Republic could still get it's shit together and muster a counter offensive of sorts and win, but they would definitely be evicted from the Mojave, albeit temporally.
>"erm... yeah, akshually you are formally wrong because that vocabulary was not thought up by Hegel but the guy Hegel (by his own words) based his work on"
>"he.... guess that's the legion for yo-ACK"
>*gets crucified upside down*
Should have spent those 7 years learning how to shut the frick up.
Why? Misunderstanding a philosopher would be in character, and by the way if its the case that's mean everything he said was his own ideas, which makes him smarter than someone just repeating what he wrote somewhere
>speech 100
>it's a semantics argument
sasuga Ganker
no the author of that mod is below average intelligence and a pseud. There is nothing actually wrong about what caesar said, the mod author is going off into a semantic argument, it is pathetically pedantic to sperge out over someone not giving an exhaustive definition of a definition.
>of a definition.
i rewrote the sentence and forgot to delete that part.
Anyways, modders are often autistic morons. Go figure.
More like (SCREECH 100).
its always funny to me when morons can't parse the simple concept that
>legion is cool
>legion is a bad idea for the wasteland
they're not mutually exclusive. its ok if the thing you like has flaws
On a Fallout 13 server, RPing in the Caesar's Legion was basically my frat during college.
Online, but still. There was hazing, there were pit fights, we did missions against the NCR and snaked up in snake formation, there was hierarchy.
It was just a great time.