I've been told you're supposed to get a feel for it after the first goblin encounter, but I still had to constantly reload saves in the next section and just stopped playing after the bug cave.
Dropping AD&D rules into a video game just doesn't work, playing Icewind Dale is waiting for your characters and the enemies to swing and miss at each other several times until one of you finally does massive frickoff damage, which may kill you instantly. It's ridiculous.
those people love those games because they played them as children and thus are driven by nostalgia.
the brutal truth is that the IE games (barring planescape) have aged atrociously and are almost impossibly archaic and even generally inferior to modern CRPGs.
>impossibly archaic
It doesn't get much simpler than point and click an order with a pause every now and then to choose a spell target. Have mobile games brain rotted an entire generation?
>point and click >spend a minute watching character stumble into each other, immediately leave formation, and then get stuck on each other when trying to enter a doorway
you can acknowledge the shit in your sacred cow
I'll give you that BG1 has bad pathfinding but in ID and BG2 it's fine
Just like every other rtwp crpg i fell into the miserable death loop of >get into a fight >lose >quickload >win >rest to restore hp and spell slots >quicksave >repeat
I suppose i have no one to blame but myself for being too afraid of losing progress when given the option not to. I wish they would disable resting in dungeons so i can stop gimping my experience of these semingly wonderful games.
Every time a game tries to disable rests in dungeons in some way, people b***h about it because they say the back and forth trips break their immersion. it's a "you think you do, but you don't" situation. If you couldn't rest in dungeons the games would have to scale down the amount of encounters per dungeon, and it would just make it a shorter game
2 years ago
Anonymous
perhaps pillars of eternity was on to something with its health/endurance system
2 years ago
Anonymous
They abandoned the next game, as well as most of its "per rest" resources, in favor of a "per encounter" model. It's honestly just more fun to play.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>abandoned *it
2 years ago
Anonymous
haven't played the second one but that sounds kinda like a lame over correction. dengeons should have some kind of system that makes them an endurance race.
2 years ago
Anonymous
there are still some per rest resources in the form of empower points and wounds. But the fact of the matter is that resource attrition in a dungeon is only fun if the systems actually support it, by giving stuff like time limits, or each rest have a true economical weight for the player. And even then, those kind of systems are only fun for a small subset of rpg players, most others find them oppressive and frustrating. Even the p&p versions of D&D have been trying to move away from per rest because they don't want to create a real rest economy, just the illusion of one.
2 years ago
Anonymous
you're probably not wrong, but i'll still bemoan that it's an unfortunate reality.
2 years ago
Anonymous
eyh, I'm with you, I wish D&D bit the bullet and devoted dev time to having proper dungeoneering rules instead of protecting hollow sacred cows like d20 or vancian casting. But if a game isn't gonna do that, the least they can do then is lessen the friction between encounters as much as possible so I don't have to waste time on meaningless upkeep.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>lame
It's better pacing.
There's nothing intersting or fun a game that constantly starts and stops.
This is even why most people don't stop to read text logs or some shit in most games
2 years ago
Anonymous
haven't played the second one but that sounds kinda like a lame over correction. dengeons should have some kind of system that makes them an endurance race.
>lame over correction
Yeah that's my impression. Per encounter is just too on the nose and leads to samey fights.
It's really worth it to figure out "Encounter Rate" and then have a separate "Resource Income Rate" that is balanced to the Encounter Rate but not pegged to it. IOW something in between "per-encounter" and "per-rest" where rest is a substantial commitment (eg 8 hours of game time to camp/sleep/etc.).
MMOs like Everquest and WoW dealt with these problems a long time ago, implementing more dynamic, time-based systems for recovering resources (for example in EQ you sit down and meditate, to regain mana, which incurs risks/downsides. You can sit down at any time so long as it's safe.) And of course WoW did a lot more with cooldowns.
There are many possible ways to preserve vancian dynamics even make them more interesting, beyond the original D&D rest cycle. For example instead of associating cooldowns with specific abilities you could put cooldowns on spell slots. Like maybe for Spell Level 1, your first slot reloads every 30 seconds, your second slot every 60 seconds, third slot every 2 minutes, etc.
There are more arcade-like/gamey methods, too. These might hurt immersion but you could have spell recovery tied to things like random drops from enemies and items you find in the environment.
Edit the .ini file and set the framerate to 60, moron. Even with clunky pathing, they'll find their way very quickly. These games play like a fricking RTS. There is nothing confusing about how they control unless you've never played one.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Edit the .ini file and set the framerate to 60, moron.
Not that guy but who fricking pissed in your cheerios? Where does this hostility come from? Nobody should be expected to edit the fricking framerate in a config file without being told. You also don't seem to appreciate how critical moments can be in an RTwP game you've never played before and have to react quickly to unexpected scenarios in unfamiliar environments. It might be obvious --after the fact-- how the movement should have been accomplished and will be easily avoided in the future, but that's not helpful when a pathing quirk at a critical moment followed by a character failing a save leads to death.
RTS games are different for several reasons. First, you tend to spend a lot of time familiarizing yourself with terrain and the majority of your movement is done in well-explored territory or encroaching on (destructible) enemy fortifications. Second, there tends to be less subtlety in general. There are chokepoints, but rarely will you find the same kind of unique and intricate interior layouts typical in an isometric RPG whether it's furniture in a room or rubble and stalagmites in a cave. Third, units in an RTS are simpler and more expendable and replaceable, so the consequences of mistakes here and there are usually less severe. Fourth, RTS are more focused on big-picture strategy, so you're less likely even send vulnerable units near a position where they'll be at risk in the first place.
Sure that guy might have been exaggerating a bit but your hostility is entirely unwarranted.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>blah blah blah
You suck at these simple fricking games I get it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
pathetic comeback
go back to Ganker and practice more
2 years ago
Anonymous
He doesn't deserve a better comeback when he changed the argument to gameplay mechanics when I was talking about gameplay controls, dummy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>RTS games are different for several reasons.
I said that they control the same not that the gameplay mechanics under the hood are the same you moron.
You select units
You issue an order
When things get hectic, you pause the game and micromanage your guys
You then unpause
Repeat
The controls are identical, idiot. The infinity engine was actually developed for RTS games initially but ended up being used for RPGS. Even the moron I was talking to knew the difference which is why he then started to complain about slow responsiveness. That used to be able to be changed in the options but now is relegated to an ini file because beamdog is moronic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I said that they control the same
I never said they didn't. It's not relevant to the point and that's what my post explains.
If you hadn't come out guns blazing calling people moronic for no reason, you wouldn't be a butthurt homosexual scrambling to defend yourself right now.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Your entire post is nullified when you can select "disable permanent death" in the options menu. You act like death is a big deal in these games when you can easily bring back characters with a spell or a temple. These games aren't difficult. I beat them when I was 11.
2 years ago
Anonymous
you can even just fricking reload if you want. None of that is relevant to the point that pathing can lead to frustrating outcomes.
He doesn't deserve a better comeback when he changed the argument to gameplay mechanics when I was talking about gameplay controls, dummy.
The conversation wasn't about controls. Your hostility was unwarranted so eat shit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Your entire post is just a novel of you b***hing because you suck at the game. It's only as difficult as you want it to be. Turn on story mode if it's too hard for you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>a novel
holy shit it took me 30 seconds to read all that you hyperbolic fricking zoomer, how low-IQ are you
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's not about how long it takes to read. It's the fact that he typed a bunch of shit and said nothing. He could have just typed "I don't know how to use a thief to scout a map I'm not familiar with" instead.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>you can even just fricking reload if you want. None of that is relevant to the point that pathing can lead to frustrating outcomes.
You should be using your thief to scout ahead preferably in stealth if you aren't familiar with the map. These are dungeons and dragons games.
if anything planescape is the one that aged the worst with its misguided attempts at modernization that completely break the base mechanics, like the run button
The BG1 development cycle was more than THREE years. Not 18 months. Development began sometime shortly after March 22, 1995 with the founding of Bioware and the game was released in December 21, 1998.
You're wrong and your opinion isn't worth all these replies. That some of us played these games on release, and had been playing AD&D for a while, and were able to work through the game satisfactorily, while people like you and OP seem to be having trouble, means that you just don't understand the system or the setting well enough to appreciate it. Nostalgia has nothing to do with it.
>Dropping AD&D rules into a video game just doesn't work
Lol. It does work. It was done for almost two decades straight before 2003. Most crpgs before that point were just AD&D games, noteably the Dark Sun games. >playing Icewind Dale is waiting for your characters and the enemies to swing and miss at each other several times until one of you finally does massive frickoff damage
This is a problem with the enemy placement and rtwp gameplay. Though the problems you seem to have here is also likely related to how you're choosing to approach encounters. It's not a problem with the AD&D ruleset. In the case of rtwp, this is a problem related to not sticking with a format appropriate for the AD&D ruleset, i.e. grid-based tactical turn-based combat.
>not sticking with a format appropriate for the AD&D ruleset, i.e. grid-based tactical turn-based combat.
yeah and have two dudes standing in adjacent tiles swinging past each other several times but in turn-based
so now the encounter lasts for 10 minutes instead of 2 minutes
what is the point you are trying to make?
rtwp-seethers are straight up delusional I swear to god
just pulled it out and ran through it a couple months ago... the key is to keep hitting refresh on stats until you get a group of solid heroes and balance the party with a good mix with at least two fighter/clerics. It was a nice way to burn a couple hours a day for a few weeks.
Play the EE in HARD with unconventional classes my last run was a
Human-Bard
Half-Orc- Barbarian
Elf-Druid
Human- Sorcerer
and a gnome Thief because a thief is a irreplaceable class
Getting filtered in the first dungeon
This was my build:
Human Fighter
Half Elf Fighter/Cleric
Human Blade
Half-Elf Thief/Mage
Elf Archer
Human Sorcerer
Your party is fine. Are your relevant stats maximized? Fighters should all have 18/high xx strength, everyone should have max dex and max con (technically casters and thieves can only have 16 con tho).
Josh Sawyer admitted that he expected people to be as familiar with AD&D 2e as he was. If you don't have at least some familiarity with the system and classes then you will probably get frustrated. The original manual does a decent job getting you up to speed.
Just like every other rtwp crpg i fell into the miserable death loop of >get into a fight >lose >quickload >win >rest to restore hp and spell slots >quicksave >repeat
I suppose i have no one to blame but myself for being too afraid of losing progress when given the option not to. I wish they would disable resting in dungeons so i can stop gimping my experience of these semingly wonderful games.
This is partly a DnD problem and partly rtwp. DnD heavily rewards preparation and RNG makes a big difference, while rtwp (especially old IE games) can have some fricky issues with pathing. Your first strategy might involve attempting a formation that doesn't fit the environment and your mage decides the best way to move two steps to his right is to charge the enemy line and he gets pasted on the first turn.
So you reload with a handful of minor tweaks, a few of which may have felt like cheap bullshit anyway, and win easily on the second try.
The problem really isn't saving so much saving or even rtwp directly just a combination of little problems accruing in systems hacked together.
I think the thing is that low level DnD gameplay in these games is always more luck based than later levels. Playing BG2 now after BG1 and I really notice how much more active I am in battles now that I've got decent THC0 and plenty of spells. Also better understanding of how DnD systems work to begin with.
Stop trying to fireball everything and instead try to use disabling spells.
he fell for the multiclass meme
That's a pretty good meme, IMO. Fighting with a party where everyone can fight and cast spells is pretty powerful. A party of 2* F/M, a F/M/T, 2* F/C and a F/D (or maybe 2 druids and 1 cleric) would mess all the enemies up. I haven't played the game in a while though so maybe I'm misremembering how unimportant single classes are in IWD.
Fighter->Druid, Fighter->Cleric and Fighter->Thief are all strictly superior to their multiclass versions. This is because of weapon grandmastery and the fact that leveling a single class will put your THAC0 on par with a multiclass fighter. With Fighter/Mage vs. Fighter->Mage its a bit more up in air, but in IWD sorcerers are far better than mages anyway.
>Be zoomer trying out random crpgs >Literally two days ago, pirate from gog-games to see what's ID all about >Huh, this intro is kinda cool >...oh, I don't get any real companions >Game starts in the tavern >Move around the entire party >The tables filter their pathing harder than SC1 Protoss Dragoons get filtered by other Dragoons >alt-f4
no you probably just suck as designing a party. I would play BG1 and BG2 first so you can get a feel for party composition and character design. I found it pretty easy.
I own Icewind Dale: EE and if someone would kindly point me out to any guide that details every aspect of how to set up my characters from the start and what shit to pick up as I level, I'll happily bumble through everything else and play it.
1) skim through the manual and cover the portions of the system you don't have particular knowledge of.
2) decide on a party composition. The basic one that can easily carry its weight would be: 2 warrior types, cleric, wizard, a rouge [+ one of your liking]. Don't play without some char being able to cover one of the roles above. Rouge should focus on traps (there are a ton of those) and stealth (super useful to scout ahead). Avoid specialization wizards, it's easy to miss out on cool spells later in game.
3) avoid duel-/multi-class. They are quite fun, but require somewhat more planning (and re-rolling). If you do multi-class, it's best to have a smaller party
4) re-roll chars until you get a nice total, primary stat should be >= 18. period. all characters benefit from highish constitution and dexterity.
5) the first town doesn't really represent the game, it's a tutorial section, and your 1st level chars can be close to dead with one lucky hit due to ADnD.
6) have fun with one of the most comfy rpgs there are
i tried playing for the first time recently with a four-man party of fighter, cleric, thief, and wizard. i was making progress at a steady pace but kiting out monsters one at a time was becoming a chore for sure. but it's weird because the alternative was seemingly to aggro half the dungeon at once.
Use the six man party. The game is designed for it. Try to get at least two frontliners. Also, try to be creative with your casters and take advantage of your cleric's turn ability against undead. There's a little trick with cleric for turn. Cast sanctuary, then send him in the middle of a group of enemies to use his turn ability to scatter enemies.
Do you understand the system? Do you know about dice rolls? Do you understand THAC0 and how saves work? Do you understand how spells interact? For example web + spider spawn + polymorph self or raise dead + cloudkill. Or protection from fire on one guy to draw a mob and tten spam fireball from everyone else. Do you just charge into battle and smash and make things up as you go or do you scout ahead and plan? What spells do you use the most?
I thought it was pretty easy, but I had a pretty strong party I think.
normal bard
twin flail berserker
twin long sword undead hunter paladin
twin scimitar fighter/druid
sorcerer (kept Hope and Courage up all the time)
illusionist/thief
Stacked up on long-duration buffs and had the thac0 truck berserker just blend his way through any threat with 5 apr. He had 42% of kills at the end of the game.
No cleric at all? That's a little surprising. Good party nonetheless.
If I had to recommend a fully powergamed party for IWD EE it'd be something like:
Human Berserker->Cleric dual at 7. Strongest realistic melee build you can get. Make sure you roll 18/91 or higher strength. If you dual at 7 you'll reactivate your fighter levels before Yxunomei.
Human Berserker->Cleric dual at 7. Just the same because its so good and lets you more quickly buff and keep up short term buffs like defensive harmony. Alternatively dual to druid instead if you want to be more offensive castery and don't like having two of the exact same character
Half Orc Fighter/Thief. 19 Strength helps a lot. Berserker->thief dualled at level 2 is technically a bit better if you roll 18/91 or higher strength but its fine either way.
Half Elf Skald. Song stacks massive AC bonuses to make the berserkers un-hitable gods of destruction, faster leveling makes them the best at damage spells.
Elf Sorcerer. Best caster for IWD's limited scroll selection. Lots of EE available spells won't even show up in stores so sorcerer is the only way to get them.
Elf Sorcerer. A 2nd sorcerer covers the only downside of not having all of the best spells available.
>No cleric at all? That's a little surprising. Good party nonetheless.
Yeah, never felt like I needed one either. The fighter/druid handled it fine, though perhaps a fighter/cleric or even pure cleric would have been better. But I heard there was some druid-exclusive content IIRC.
>skald
I only realized how crazy good their song was after I went with a normal one, but I did get a lot out of the anti-fear and charm songs in one or two fights. >Half Orc Fighter/Thief
I really should have gone with this instead of a mage/thief I think. Mages are lame compared to sorcerers, especially so when multiclassed.
By the way, did you also find Glitterdust to be a fantastically useful and powerful spell?
>Yeah, never felt like I needed one either.
The main reason for cleric is that Draw Upon Holy Might is god-tier in IWD where strength items are fairly rare. 25 Strength basically doubles your damage output and the Dex is another 2 AC. Between berserking (+2), Skald Song (+4) and DUHM (+2), along with possibly Entropy shield (+6) and Defensive Harmony (+4) you're looking at your berserkers hitting the base AC cap of -26 pretty easily.
>I really should have gone with this instead of a mage/thief I think. Mages are lame compared to sorcerers, especially so when multiclassed.
Mage/Thief is kind of a meme class in BG2 that is only noteworthy because of a few backstab exploits. But i'm not even sure if you can find the Mislead scroll in IWDEE, certainly you can't get it early like in BG2. Thief->Mage is generally better otherwise, just get enough thief points to do thief stuff then be a pure mage. But Fighter/Thief is just an excellent combo.
>By the way, did you also find Glitterdust to be a fantastically useful and powerful spell?
Yeah, Blind is one of the broken save or might as well be dead effects in infinity games and Glitterdust is a top tier spell. It's exactly the kind of thing you can start spamming every fight when you have multiple casters, especially sorcerers.
First time playthrough I went with >half orc barbarian >human kensai >human thief >half-elf cleric >elf sorcerer
How did I do bros? It seemed like the dragon eye was the only hard part of the game. I actually had to use tactics and choke points (grease and web while Frontline attack at the edge and ranged units attack from a far
Pure kensai and Barbarian is worse than just taking a normal fighter imo but it's fine. Ignoring the kitted characters that's basically the standard D&D party
Barbarian: Not being able to grandmaster weapons means you miss out on +1 APR, +2 THAC0 Bonus, and +3 Damage bonus. The APR especially is huge, altogether you're probably doing 1/3rd less damage than a fighter. In exchange you get rage which approximately makes up the THAC0 and Damage bonus penalty, but in exchange you take a -2 AC penalty and obviously you can't rage forever. Full Plate Mail normally gives AC 1 (-3 vs slashing), while Splint Mail only gives AC 4. So altogether while raging you have 5 less AC and that's upgraded to 9 less AC vs. slashing. Surprise surprise, most of the enemies in the game use slashing including both Yxunomei and Belhifet. So you're like tissue paper and still probably losing ~25% of your damage output even while raging.
Kensai: Not being able to wear armor completely sucks ass for the first half of the game until mages get Spirit Armor, which you have to cast constantly since it isn't that long of a spell and can get dispelled. At that point you're still behind Fighters in your AC vs. Slashing same as Barbarian. Not being able to wear gauntlets means missing out on +1 THAC0 / +2 Damage gloves, which effectively give normal fighters the same base to hit / damage of a level 3/6 kensai. It's not nearly as bad as barbarian but it means sacrificing a lot for what in the end is a fairly moderate damage increase compared to standard fighter until you get really, really high levels.
In basically all cases Berserker is by far the strongest choice since it sacrifices nothing and gets +2 THAC0/+2 Damage while raging along with a bunch of magic immunities, and if you dual to cleric to get DUHM you have 25 strength which is effectively a +5 THAC0/+9 Damage increase.
Swashbuckler: The kit is literally an attempt at making a fighter/thief which is inferior to a fighter/thief multi in every way
Beastmaster: advantages are basically joke abilities.
Inquisitor: enemy spellcasters with buffs you need to dispel are incredibly rare in IWD. Not objectively worse just doesn't fit the game well.
Shaman: Not a kit, but basically just a bad druid.
There's a few other kits that are arguably losing more than they gain, and half of the Mage specializations are arguably bad, but these are the ones I'd consider to be objectively bad picks. It's a harder comparison to make for most other kits since other classes have more unique abilities that can't be reduced down to a basic AC/THAC0/Damage comparison.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ohh, and Wizard Slayer of course. It's a bad pick in BG1/2 already and it's even worse in IWD for the same reason as Inquisitor, just not many mages that you care about.
2 years ago
Anonymous
But wizard slatyer and Inquisitor both have cool names
Using the base class is boring as frick an ICW: EE some classes that are completely useless in BG like Druid or Bard are actually fun to play here. My last run on Hard went with this party:
Half-Orc Barbarian CQC
Human Bard Secondary Caster, support and Leader
Half-elf Druid Support Magic
Elf Sorcerer Main Caster
Human Thief middle range support
Dwarf Berserker CQC >inb4 No Cleric
The Druid ended being the MVP of that run
Didn't say he *should* take the unkitted classes, just saying that if you look mathematically at what the classes actually give that you're basically hurting yourself by taking them.
It's also not fun to pick a kit that doesn't really deliver what's expected from the description. In general, handicaps like not being able to wear armor make the game less fun and more boring. It's the kind of challenge that makes sense for an autist on a subsequent run.
The maps are designed better so it can be a little more tactical at low levels (until all the moronic splatbook buffs eliminate any reason to use tactics) but it's the exact same point and click to move the wrong way garbo controls you no doubt loathe.
Fun trick I just learned. You can kill Erevain Broadsword in the prologue to get his weapon.
- Spam Charm Person. He has 90% resistance due to being an elf, but it will work.
- Wait till he goes hostile and attacks you.
- Bring him outside.
- Charm him again.
- Run him down to the Goblins. Stay out of their and his LoS with your other characters. Keep him selected and keep ordering him to move through the fog of war until the charm runs out. He will then be hostile to you and the goblins will kill him without him fighting back. You can then loot his broadsword +2 with no drawbacks.
You can kill him yourself after charm person runs out the first time without everyone going hostile but you'll suffer a reputation penalty which will hurt your store prices for the rest of the game. Erevain feels like he was supposed to be there for you to steal from or trick into attacking you (there's dialog that seems to be intended to goad him into attacking you but it doesn't happen). Can't do this with Everard, the town still goes hostile when the goblins kill him.
t.b.h. I found it way too easy (I did create relatively strong party tho). Basically the entire game is throwing a few buffs, including haste, and dominating everything in melee.
I gave up on this game after I got party wiped on Yxunomei like 15 times and uninstalling it in rage, that was like a year ago, should I give it another try maybe
Rushing in and killing her in the first round or two while she's casting shit that you'll interrupt anyway is a perfectly good idea. If you have two or three fighters it should be easy.
I had Icewind Dale II growing up. I was either too young or too stupid or too bored to get far or understand the game. Maybe I should try it again as an adult one day.
When he says "make everyone a warrior and then dual class them", he means early so your character's aren't really all fighters, just clerics/thieves/druids/mages with much better health, weapon proficiencies and available items to equip.
Was looking at the prebuilt EE party and it's actually excellent.
>Berserker >18/93 str 17 dex 18 con
Amazing kit, excellent stats. Can't dual to anything other than thief but w/e, still one of the best front liners you'll get.
>Ranger/Cleric >16 str 18 dex 16 con
In original was completely broken since it has everything a fighter/cleric has but with racial enemy (skeletal undead, best pick), two weapon fighting and all druid spells. In EE they nerfed your druid spell progression a bit but you can undo that if you want in the config. Bit poor str roll but you have every cleric buff in the game to fix that, you'll be at 25 str by the late game easily.
>Undead Hunter >18/58 str 16 dex 17 con
Game is literally crawling with undead and while there aren't many enemy casters probably 1/2 of them cast hold person so the immunity is nice. Definitely your best paladin kit pick and a Paladin ensures players will get to use the unique sword.
>Halfling Fighter/Thief >14 str 19 dex 16 con
Best thief pick, Halfling gets the unique +3 AC helm. Strength is a shame but I guess one frontliner has to have suboptimal strength. Backstabs do get around the strength problem.
>Mage >17 dex 14 con 18 int
Kind of the default for any party, sorcerer would be better but great stats and newbies probably couldn't handle picking just 5 spells per level. 2 con low but OK
>Bard >18 dex 16 con 17 int
Good support. Skald is better imo, but then you miss out on the cool unique IWD songs and a normal bard can pickpocket the nice stuff in kuldahar
Whoever made this party clearly understood the IWD meta pretty well.
Fighters specifically only get +2 damage from weapon specialization over other classes. Martial classes in general are still excellent and very important to have since there is a lot of enemies to wade through, though casters are a bit better than they were in IWD1 imo.
Are archer rangers bad in IWD2, I was thinking of having one in my party, but I saw someone say that they are shit, and that I'm better off multiclassic ranger/fighter
I know it's more of a Baldur's Gate question (due to xp limits costraints), but regarding dual-classing, when's the best level to switch?
Speaking about Thief to mage, Fighter to Druid, Fighter to Thief, and viceversa T to F
Depends on the game really because you generally want to switch around a time when the amount of XP you are getting drastically increases, or you're getting a lot of quest XP. In BG2 specifically you can abuse scribing scrolls if you switch to mage to get massive XP, and the same goes for disarming/unlocking things if you switch to thief.
Based on pure power breakpoints, fighter wants to dual at 7 (extra half APR), 9 (max HP), or 13 (extra half APR), but 13 requires a shit ton of time. Thief wants to dual when they hit some backstab multiplier breakpoint, or when they have acceptable thieving skills.
Are archer rangers bad in IWD2, I was thinking of having one in my party, but I saw someone say that they are shit, and that I'm better off multiclassic ranger/fighter
4 levels of fighter lets you get weapon specialization (3rd pip in the weapon) for +2 damage. Aside from that all fighter gets is more feats, and you run out of feats to take very quickly. After you have 4 levels of fighter there's not much reason to level fighter rather than any other class that gets full BAB progression.
That said I think bows aren't great in IWD2 since they don't get more attacks, don't get to add strength to their damage, and don't get other 3rd ed feats to boost them that normal archers would in 3rd ed, but I'm not 100% sure about this.
Played the EE some months ago. I had to grind 1000+ cold wights to defeat that marilith boss. Everything was straightforward after that (but not easy). Just grind more and dual class.
I remember owning a physical copy of the game called Icewind Dale II for computer when I was young. When I search for that game on Steam, I only see Icewind Dale (Enhanced Edition.) I assume that is only the first game. Does Icewind Dale II still exist?
you can purchase IWD2 on gog
for pretty cheap as well
from what I remember EE is nevar-evar ( not that it's a bad thing) since some original source files are lost
but while GOG version runs fine on modern systems you will need a wide-screen fan patch. google to the rescue
Yes. It was BG for minmaxers who didn't care about story.
>It was BG for minmaxers
Are you moronic?
Unless you are playing on Heart of Winter there is literally zero reasons to MinMax.
i beat it when i was like 14 so i doubt it
I've been told you're supposed to get a feel for it after the first goblin encounter, but I still had to constantly reload saves in the next section and just stopped playing after the bug cave.
Dropping AD&D rules into a video game just doesn't work, playing Icewind Dale is waiting for your characters and the enemies to swing and miss at each other several times until one of you finally does massive frickoff damage, which may kill you instantly. It's ridiculous.
It worked for millions of people who love those games.
those people love those games because they played them as children and thus are driven by nostalgia.
the brutal truth is that the IE games (barring planescape) have aged atrociously and are almost impossibly archaic and even generally inferior to modern CRPGs.
I played them as an adult. Countless fellow adults loved them at release and still do. You're dumb.
>impossibly archaic
It doesn't get much simpler than point and click an order with a pause every now and then to choose a spell target. Have mobile games brain rotted an entire generation?
>point and click
>spend a minute watching character stumble into each other, immediately leave formation, and then get stuck on each other when trying to enter a doorway
you can acknowledge the shit in your sacred cow
I'll give you that BG1 has bad pathfinding but in ID and BG2 it's fine
Every time a game tries to disable rests in dungeons in some way, people b***h about it because they say the back and forth trips break their immersion. it's a "you think you do, but you don't" situation. If you couldn't rest in dungeons the games would have to scale down the amount of encounters per dungeon, and it would just make it a shorter game
perhaps pillars of eternity was on to something with its health/endurance system
They abandoned the next game, as well as most of its "per rest" resources, in favor of a "per encounter" model. It's honestly just more fun to play.
>abandoned *it
haven't played the second one but that sounds kinda like a lame over correction. dengeons should have some kind of system that makes them an endurance race.
there are still some per rest resources in the form of empower points and wounds. But the fact of the matter is that resource attrition in a dungeon is only fun if the systems actually support it, by giving stuff like time limits, or each rest have a true economical weight for the player. And even then, those kind of systems are only fun for a small subset of rpg players, most others find them oppressive and frustrating. Even the p&p versions of D&D have been trying to move away from per rest because they don't want to create a real rest economy, just the illusion of one.
you're probably not wrong, but i'll still bemoan that it's an unfortunate reality.
eyh, I'm with you, I wish D&D bit the bullet and devoted dev time to having proper dungeoneering rules instead of protecting hollow sacred cows like d20 or vancian casting. But if a game isn't gonna do that, the least they can do then is lessen the friction between encounters as much as possible so I don't have to waste time on meaningless upkeep.
>lame
It's better pacing.
There's nothing intersting or fun a game that constantly starts and stops.
This is even why most people don't stop to read text logs or some shit in most games
>lame over correction
Yeah that's my impression. Per encounter is just too on the nose and leads to samey fights.
It's really worth it to figure out "Encounter Rate" and then have a separate "Resource Income Rate" that is balanced to the Encounter Rate but not pegged to it. IOW something in between "per-encounter" and "per-rest" where rest is a substantial commitment (eg 8 hours of game time to camp/sleep/etc.).
MMOs like Everquest and WoW dealt with these problems a long time ago, implementing more dynamic, time-based systems for recovering resources (for example in EQ you sit down and meditate, to regain mana, which incurs risks/downsides. You can sit down at any time so long as it's safe.) And of course WoW did a lot more with cooldowns.
There are many possible ways to preserve vancian dynamics even make them more interesting, beyond the original D&D rest cycle. For example instead of associating cooldowns with specific abilities you could put cooldowns on spell slots. Like maybe for Spell Level 1, your first slot reloads every 30 seconds, your second slot every 60 seconds, third slot every 2 minutes, etc.
There are more arcade-like/gamey methods, too. These might hurt immersion but you could have spell recovery tied to things like random drops from enemies and items you find in the environment.
Icewind dale has pathfinding problems too
Edit the .ini file and set the framerate to 60, moron. Even with clunky pathing, they'll find their way very quickly. These games play like a fricking RTS. There is nothing confusing about how they control unless you've never played one.
>Edit the .ini file and set the framerate to 60, moron.
Not that guy but who fricking pissed in your cheerios? Where does this hostility come from? Nobody should be expected to edit the fricking framerate in a config file without being told. You also don't seem to appreciate how critical moments can be in an RTwP game you've never played before and have to react quickly to unexpected scenarios in unfamiliar environments. It might be obvious --after the fact-- how the movement should have been accomplished and will be easily avoided in the future, but that's not helpful when a pathing quirk at a critical moment followed by a character failing a save leads to death.
RTS games are different for several reasons. First, you tend to spend a lot of time familiarizing yourself with terrain and the majority of your movement is done in well-explored territory or encroaching on (destructible) enemy fortifications. Second, there tends to be less subtlety in general. There are chokepoints, but rarely will you find the same kind of unique and intricate interior layouts typical in an isometric RPG whether it's furniture in a room or rubble and stalagmites in a cave. Third, units in an RTS are simpler and more expendable and replaceable, so the consequences of mistakes here and there are usually less severe. Fourth, RTS are more focused on big-picture strategy, so you're less likely even send vulnerable units near a position where they'll be at risk in the first place.
Sure that guy might have been exaggerating a bit but your hostility is entirely unwarranted.
>blah blah blah
You suck at these simple fricking games I get it.
pathetic comeback
go back to Ganker and practice more
He doesn't deserve a better comeback when he changed the argument to gameplay mechanics when I was talking about gameplay controls, dummy.
>RTS games are different for several reasons.
I said that they control the same not that the gameplay mechanics under the hood are the same you moron.
You select units
You issue an order
When things get hectic, you pause the game and micromanage your guys
You then unpause
Repeat
The controls are identical, idiot. The infinity engine was actually developed for RTS games initially but ended up being used for RPGS. Even the moron I was talking to knew the difference which is why he then started to complain about slow responsiveness. That used to be able to be changed in the options but now is relegated to an ini file because beamdog is moronic.
>I said that they control the same
I never said they didn't. It's not relevant to the point and that's what my post explains.
If you hadn't come out guns blazing calling people moronic for no reason, you wouldn't be a butthurt homosexual scrambling to defend yourself right now.
Your entire post is nullified when you can select "disable permanent death" in the options menu. You act like death is a big deal in these games when you can easily bring back characters with a spell or a temple. These games aren't difficult. I beat them when I was 11.
you can even just fricking reload if you want. None of that is relevant to the point that pathing can lead to frustrating outcomes.
The conversation wasn't about controls. Your hostility was unwarranted so eat shit.
Your entire post is just a novel of you b***hing because you suck at the game. It's only as difficult as you want it to be. Turn on story mode if it's too hard for you.
>a novel
holy shit it took me 30 seconds to read all that you hyperbolic fricking zoomer, how low-IQ are you
It's not about how long it takes to read. It's the fact that he typed a bunch of shit and said nothing. He could have just typed "I don't know how to use a thief to scout a map I'm not familiar with" instead.
>you can even just fricking reload if you want. None of that is relevant to the point that pathing can lead to frustrating outcomes.
You should be using your thief to scout ahead preferably in stealth if you aren't familiar with the map. These are dungeons and dragons games.
if anything planescape is the one that aged the worst with its misguided attempts at modernization that completely break the base mechanics, like the run button
Wrong. These are games for adults and children and they have all aged like a fine wine. You do need an imagination though so some people get filtered.
soul
>never worked on a video game before
AHEM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shattered_Steel
The BG1 development cycle was more than THREE years. Not 18 months. Development began sometime shortly after March 22, 1995 with the founding of Bioware and the game was released in December 21, 1998.
Holy shit. I think I just came from nostalgia. I had completely forgotten shattered steel existed.
To be fair, they may have no experience making "video" games, but there were people with strong tabletop background, including DMing.
Lol I like this bait, it's a reverse of the "Torment has bad combat" meme. Now Torment is the best one, because all the other games have bad combat.
It's not bait. Zoomers are too dumb to play these games and it's senseless to engage them.
I'm playing them for the first time and absolutely loving them, maybe you just have short attention spam
You're wrong and your opinion isn't worth all these replies. That some of us played these games on release, and had been playing AD&D for a while, and were able to work through the game satisfactorily, while people like you and OP seem to be having trouble, means that you just don't understand the system or the setting well enough to appreciate it. Nostalgia has nothing to do with it.
tards love savescumming because you can't convince a fly not to eat shit
>Dropping AD&D rules into a video game just doesn't work
Lol. It does work. It was done for almost two decades straight before 2003. Most crpgs before that point were just AD&D games, noteably the Dark Sun games.
>playing Icewind Dale is waiting for your characters and the enemies to swing and miss at each other several times until one of you finally does massive frickoff damage
This is a problem with the enemy placement and rtwp gameplay. Though the problems you seem to have here is also likely related to how you're choosing to approach encounters. It's not a problem with the AD&D ruleset. In the case of rtwp, this is a problem related to not sticking with a format appropriate for the AD&D ruleset, i.e. grid-based tactical turn-based combat.
>not sticking with a format appropriate for the AD&D ruleset, i.e. grid-based tactical turn-based combat.
yeah and have two dudes standing in adjacent tiles swinging past each other several times but in turn-based
so now the encounter lasts for 10 minutes instead of 2 minutes
what is the point you are trying to make?
rtwp-seethers are straight up delusional I swear to god
Turn off cosmetic attacks.
Always turn off cosmetic attacks.
post stats
just pulled it out and ran through it a couple months ago... the key is to keep hitting refresh on stats until you get a group of solid heroes and balance the party with a good mix with at least two fighter/clerics. It was a nice way to burn a couple hours a day for a few weeks.
oh...and drop in custom pics of scantily clad girls and you care 14% more to keep them from getting toasted. Your duty will be clear!
Here's a good druid, for example.
these examples arouse inspiration in me
Shit, Druid are not that clean
Can we get a version of this without the cat? And by cat I obviously mean the ugly anime bawd tormenting that beutiful Siberian tiger.
post a full party of these and I'll do another playthrough
i prefer the classy look
Maybe a cleric or a wizard.
No. That's a sith temptress
>piss flap armor
Yikes
>armor
Lower AC is better.
Play the EE in HARD with unconventional classes my last run was a
Human-Bard
Half-Orc- Barbarian
Elf-Druid
Human- Sorcerer
and a gnome Thief because a thief is a irreplaceable class
Getting filtered in the first dungeon
This was my build:
Human Fighter
Half Elf Fighter/Cleric
Human Blade
Half-Elf Thief/Mage
Elf Archer
Human Sorcerer
he fell for the multiclass meme
What do you call the first dungeon?
Your party is fine. Are your relevant stats maximized? Fighters should all have 18/high xx strength, everyone should have max dex and max con (technically casters and thieves can only have 16 con tho).
Josh Sawyer admitted that he expected people to be as familiar with AD&D 2e as he was. If you don't have at least some familiarity with the system and classes then you will probably get frustrated. The original manual does a decent job getting you up to speed.
It's the easiest infinity engine game
Just like every other rtwp crpg i fell into the miserable death loop of
>get into a fight
>lose
>quickload
>win
>rest to restore hp and spell slots
>quicksave
>repeat
I suppose i have no one to blame but myself for being too afraid of losing progress when given the option not to. I wish they would disable resting in dungeons so i can stop gimping my experience of these semingly wonderful games.
>>get into a fight
>>lose
>>win
>>rest to restore hp and spell slots
frick if this ain't me
Just play the fighter arena modes like black pits or tembrous depths
This is partly a DnD problem and partly rtwp. DnD heavily rewards preparation and RNG makes a big difference, while rtwp (especially old IE games) can have some fricky issues with pathing. Your first strategy might involve attempting a formation that doesn't fit the environment and your mage decides the best way to move two steps to his right is to charge the enemy line and he gets pasted on the first turn.
So you reload with a handful of minor tweaks, a few of which may have felt like cheap bullshit anyway, and win easily on the second try.
The problem really isn't saving so much saving or even rtwp directly just a combination of little problems accruing in systems hacked together.
I think the thing is that low level DnD gameplay in these games is always more luck based than later levels. Playing BG2 now after BG1 and I really notice how much more active I am in battles now that I've got decent THC0 and plenty of spells. Also better understanding of how DnD systems work to begin with.
D&D players often refer to low-level play as "rusty dagger shanktown" on account of how lethal and swingy combat can be.
Buffs and save-or-sucks are your friends, anon.
Stop trying to fireball everything and instead try to use disabling spells.
That's a pretty good meme, IMO. Fighting with a party where everyone can fight and cast spells is pretty powerful. A party of 2* F/M, a F/M/T, 2* F/C and a F/D (or maybe 2 druids and 1 cleric) would mess all the enemies up. I haven't played the game in a while though so maybe I'm misremembering how unimportant single classes are in IWD.
Fighter->Druid, Fighter->Cleric and Fighter->Thief are all strictly superior to their multiclass versions. This is because of weapon grandmastery and the fact that leveling a single class will put your THAC0 on par with a multiclass fighter. With Fighter/Mage vs. Fighter->Mage its a bit more up in air, but in IWD sorcerers are far better than mages anyway.
>I haven't played the game in a while though
IWD is very stingy with spell scroll drops.
You should have brought an archer. There's a bow in this game that just disgusting in the right hands.
It's one of those old games where you were expected to read manual before getting into it. So it can feel hard if you didn't.
>Be zoomer trying out random crpgs
>Literally two days ago, pirate from gog-games to see what's ID all about
>Huh, this intro is kinda cool
>...oh, I don't get any real companions
>Game starts in the tavern
>Move around the entire party
>The tables filter their pathing harder than SC1 Protoss Dragoons get filtered by other Dragoons
>alt-f4
>>...oh, I don't get any real companions
Creativity is dead with these zoomoids.
>>...oh, I don't get any real companions
The best part of IWD.
No, you can always lower the difficulty.
IWD2 is harder and Josh admits he overtuned it.
Were is the best place to find portraits?
Unironically google or similar search engine, you just need to crop the pictures yourself.
no you probably just suck as designing a party. I would play BG1 and BG2 first so you can get a feel for party composition and character design. I found it pretty easy.
Damn, still have to do Trials at some point
I own Icewind Dale: EE and if someone would kindly point me out to any guide that details every aspect of how to set up my characters from the start and what shit to pick up as I level, I'll happily bumble through everything else and play it.
If you don't know how to play AD&D then don't bother with this game. Start with Baldur's Gate 1 and make a fighter.
I've play D&D and cRPGs before. I just suck ass at making my own characters or minmaxing well.
Do you want someone to type a walkthrough up for you? Just google one.
1) skim through the manual and cover the portions of the system you don't have particular knowledge of.
2) decide on a party composition. The basic one that can easily carry its weight would be: 2 warrior types, cleric, wizard, a rouge [+ one of your liking]. Don't play without some char being able to cover one of the roles above. Rouge should focus on traps (there are a ton of those) and stealth (super useful to scout ahead). Avoid specialization wizards, it's easy to miss out on cool spells later in game.
3) avoid duel-/multi-class. They are quite fun, but require somewhat more planning (and re-rolling). If you do multi-class, it's best to have a smaller party
4) re-roll chars until you get a nice total, primary stat should be >= 18. period. all characters benefit from highish constitution and dexterity.
5) the first town doesn't really represent the game, it's a tutorial section, and your 1st level chars can be close to dead with one lucky hit due to ADnD.
6) have fun with one of the most comfy rpgs there are
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/871349-icewind-dale-enhanced-edition/faqs/556
It's for the old game, not EE, but it's insanely detailed.
Not at all. The enemies are just melee fodder.
I beat iwd 2 five times, and even withheld leveling up so i could xp scum crystal golems at level 6.
i tried playing for the first time recently with a four-man party of fighter, cleric, thief, and wizard. i was making progress at a steady pace but kiting out monsters one at a time was becoming a chore for sure. but it's weird because the alternative was seemingly to aggro half the dungeon at once.
Use the six man party. The game is designed for it. Try to get at least two frontliners. Also, try to be creative with your casters and take advantage of your cleric's turn ability against undead. There's a little trick with cleric for turn. Cast sanctuary, then send him in the middle of a group of enemies to use his turn ability to scatter enemies.
>There's a little trick with cleric
but it mostly works at higher levels
at start you can't kill anything with turn undead
No, you're just bad. Post your party so I can mock them all.
I'm not sure if this was this one or the 2nd one, but I loved my DW 2h half-orc with shitload str. Shit was OP beyond repair
Do you understand the system? Do you know about dice rolls? Do you understand THAC0 and how saves work? Do you understand how spells interact? For example web + spider spawn + polymorph self or raise dead + cloudkill. Or protection from fire on one guy to draw a mob and tten spam fireball from everyone else. Do you just charge into battle and smash and make things up as you go or do you scout ahead and plan? What spells do you use the most?
It’s way more fun when you give your characters backstories and custom portraits
I thought it was pretty easy, but I had a pretty strong party I think.
normal bard
twin flail berserker
twin long sword undead hunter paladin
twin scimitar fighter/druid
sorcerer (kept Hope and Courage up all the time)
illusionist/thief
Stacked up on long-duration buffs and had the thac0 truck berserker just blend his way through any threat with 5 apr. He had 42% of kills at the end of the game.
No cleric at all? That's a little surprising. Good party nonetheless.
If I had to recommend a fully powergamed party for IWD EE it'd be something like:
Human Berserker->Cleric dual at 7. Strongest realistic melee build you can get. Make sure you roll 18/91 or higher strength. If you dual at 7 you'll reactivate your fighter levels before Yxunomei.
Human Berserker->Cleric dual at 7. Just the same because its so good and lets you more quickly buff and keep up short term buffs like defensive harmony. Alternatively dual to druid instead if you want to be more offensive castery and don't like having two of the exact same character
Half Orc Fighter/Thief. 19 Strength helps a lot. Berserker->thief dualled at level 2 is technically a bit better if you roll 18/91 or higher strength but its fine either way.
Half Elf Skald. Song stacks massive AC bonuses to make the berserkers un-hitable gods of destruction, faster leveling makes them the best at damage spells.
Elf Sorcerer. Best caster for IWD's limited scroll selection. Lots of EE available spells won't even show up in stores so sorcerer is the only way to get them.
Elf Sorcerer. A 2nd sorcerer covers the only downside of not having all of the best spells available.
>No cleric at all? That's a little surprising. Good party nonetheless.
Yeah, never felt like I needed one either. The fighter/druid handled it fine, though perhaps a fighter/cleric or even pure cleric would have been better. But I heard there was some druid-exclusive content IIRC.
>skald
I only realized how crazy good their song was after I went with a normal one, but I did get a lot out of the anti-fear and charm songs in one or two fights.
>Half Orc Fighter/Thief
I really should have gone with this instead of a mage/thief I think. Mages are lame compared to sorcerers, especially so when multiclassed.
By the way, did you also find Glitterdust to be a fantastically useful and powerful spell?
>Yeah, never felt like I needed one either.
The main reason for cleric is that Draw Upon Holy Might is god-tier in IWD where strength items are fairly rare. 25 Strength basically doubles your damage output and the Dex is another 2 AC. Between berserking (+2), Skald Song (+4) and DUHM (+2), along with possibly Entropy shield (+6) and Defensive Harmony (+4) you're looking at your berserkers hitting the base AC cap of -26 pretty easily.
>I really should have gone with this instead of a mage/thief I think. Mages are lame compared to sorcerers, especially so when multiclassed.
Mage/Thief is kind of a meme class in BG2 that is only noteworthy because of a few backstab exploits. But i'm not even sure if you can find the Mislead scroll in IWDEE, certainly you can't get it early like in BG2. Thief->Mage is generally better otherwise, just get enough thief points to do thief stuff then be a pure mage. But Fighter/Thief is just an excellent combo.
>By the way, did you also find Glitterdust to be a fantastically useful and powerful spell?
Yeah, Blind is one of the broken save or might as well be dead effects in infinity games and Glitterdust is a top tier spell. It's exactly the kind of thing you can start spamming every fight when you have multiple casters, especially sorcerers.
The game is piss fricking easy except for the dragon's eye. You are just are a moron
First time playthrough I went with
>half orc barbarian
>human kensai
>human thief
>half-elf cleric
>elf sorcerer
How did I do bros? It seemed like the dragon eye was the only hard part of the game. I actually had to use tactics and choke points (grease and web while Frontline attack at the edge and ranged units attack from a far
Pure kensai and Barbarian is worse than just taking a normal fighter imo but it's fine. Ignoring the kitted characters that's basically the standard D&D party
How are they worse exactly?
Barbarian: Not being able to grandmaster weapons means you miss out on +1 APR, +2 THAC0 Bonus, and +3 Damage bonus. The APR especially is huge, altogether you're probably doing 1/3rd less damage than a fighter. In exchange you get rage which approximately makes up the THAC0 and Damage bonus penalty, but in exchange you take a -2 AC penalty and obviously you can't rage forever. Full Plate Mail normally gives AC 1 (-3 vs slashing), while Splint Mail only gives AC 4. So altogether while raging you have 5 less AC and that's upgraded to 9 less AC vs. slashing. Surprise surprise, most of the enemies in the game use slashing including both Yxunomei and Belhifet. So you're like tissue paper and still probably losing ~25% of your damage output even while raging.
Kensai: Not being able to wear armor completely sucks ass for the first half of the game until mages get Spirit Armor, which you have to cast constantly since it isn't that long of a spell and can get dispelled. At that point you're still behind Fighters in your AC vs. Slashing same as Barbarian. Not being able to wear gauntlets means missing out on +1 THAC0 / +2 Damage gloves, which effectively give normal fighters the same base to hit / damage of a level 3/6 kensai. It's not nearly as bad as barbarian but it means sacrificing a lot for what in the end is a fairly moderate damage increase compared to standard fighter until you get really, really high levels.
In basically all cases Berserker is by far the strongest choice since it sacrifices nothing and gets +2 THAC0/+2 Damage while raging along with a bunch of magic immunities, and if you dual to cleric to get DUHM you have 25 strength which is effectively a +5 THAC0/+9 Damage increase.
Interesting. Any other kits that are a complete waste?
Swashbuckler: The kit is literally an attempt at making a fighter/thief which is inferior to a fighter/thief multi in every way
Beastmaster: advantages are basically joke abilities.
Inquisitor: enemy spellcasters with buffs you need to dispel are incredibly rare in IWD. Not objectively worse just doesn't fit the game well.
Shaman: Not a kit, but basically just a bad druid.
There's a few other kits that are arguably losing more than they gain, and half of the Mage specializations are arguably bad, but these are the ones I'd consider to be objectively bad picks. It's a harder comparison to make for most other kits since other classes have more unique abilities that can't be reduced down to a basic AC/THAC0/Damage comparison.
Ohh, and Wizard Slayer of course. It's a bad pick in BG1/2 already and it's even worse in IWD for the same reason as Inquisitor, just not many mages that you care about.
But wizard slatyer and Inquisitor both have cool names
Using the base class is boring as frick an ICW: EE some classes that are completely useless in BG like Druid or Bard are actually fun to play here. My last run on Hard went with this party:
Half-Orc Barbarian CQC
Human Bard Secondary Caster, support and Leader
Half-elf Druid Support Magic
Elf Sorcerer Main Caster
Human Thief middle range support
Dwarf Berserker CQC
>inb4 No Cleric
The Druid ended being the MVP of that run
Didn't say he *should* take the unkitted classes, just saying that if you look mathematically at what the classes actually give that you're basically hurting yourself by taking them.
yes but minmaxing is not fun he maybe could find fun trying to figure out how to win with the handicap of the Kensai and Barbarian kits
It's also not fun to pick a kit that doesn't really deliver what's expected from the description. In general, handicaps like not being able to wear armor make the game less fun and more boring. It's the kind of challenge that makes sense for an autist on a subsequent run.
Also min/maxing is fun, anyway.
Did anyone try that Icewind Dale NPC mod? Supposedly does for IWD what the NPC Project mod did for BG1.
Will I enjoy this if I didn't really enjoy BG's combat?
idk first answer me, How deep is your autism?
It's the same engine as BG but with less focus on story and NPCs and more focus on combat.
bruh, this game might as well be called BG: Combat-Only Edition
The maps are designed better so it can be a little more tactical at low levels (until all the moronic splatbook buffs eliminate any reason to use tactics) but it's the exact same point and click to move the wrong way garbo controls you no doubt loathe.
Fun trick I just learned. You can kill Erevain Broadsword in the prologue to get his weapon.
- Spam Charm Person. He has 90% resistance due to being an elf, but it will work.
- Wait till he goes hostile and attacks you.
- Bring him outside.
- Charm him again.
- Run him down to the Goblins. Stay out of their and his LoS with your other characters. Keep him selected and keep ordering him to move through the fog of war until the charm runs out. He will then be hostile to you and the goblins will kill him without him fighting back. You can then loot his broadsword +2 with no drawbacks.
You can kill him yourself after charm person runs out the first time without everyone going hostile but you'll suffer a reputation penalty which will hurt your store prices for the rest of the game. Erevain feels like he was supposed to be there for you to steal from or trick into attacking you (there's dialog that seems to be intended to goad him into attacking you but it doesn't happen). Can't do this with Everard, the town still goes hostile when the goblins kill him.
Do you still come across his corpse in chapter 2 to get second sword?
yes
t.b.h. I found it way too easy (I did create relatively strong party tho). Basically the entire game is throwing a few buffs, including haste, and dominating everything in melee.
Are there any fighter classkits that are clearly better than the others?
Just take it slow, use your Rogue to scout ahead for traps and enemies, take a few minutes to plan.
I gave up on this game after I got party wiped on Yxunomei like 15 times and uninstalling it in rage, that was like a year ago, should I give it another try maybe
Try hitting her with a melee weapon until she dies.
Did you know that you can pause the game to re-conside the situation as battle develops and issue new orders?
a bloo bloo
Don't fight in her throne room. Run like hell and use ranged weapons to kill her minions. Then gangbang her in melee, while chugging pots like crazy.
Rushing in and killing her in the first round or two while she's casting shit that you'll interrupt anyway is a perfectly good idea. If you have two or three fighters it should be easy.
I killed her yesterday on a new save, using just this
I had Icewind Dale II growing up. I was either too young or too stupid or too bored to get far or understand the game. Maybe I should try it again as an adult one day.
mu...muh... mama
its the same girl as the cleric
The artstyle in this game is so, so good. Thank you Josh.
>Josh
You should thank Justin Sweet which can make shit settings look like pure art.
I used that portrait in a bard kek
Remind me, do you start with any decent gear starting in HoW or you have to buy from Lonelywood vendors first?
just make everyone a warrior and then dual class them
get healing back in the town in the temple
is it the same in IWD2? Its not that fun running around with a full fighter party
IWD2 uses 3rd edition rules so no.
When he says "make everyone a warrior and then dual class them", he means early so your character's aren't really all fighters, just clerics/thieves/druids/mages with much better health, weapon proficiencies and available items to equip.
i tried to make a custom portrait for iwd 2, should i make a 256 bmp on gimp? Also the portrait folder is missing and i made my own
Do anybody have a site where I can find western fantasy art of scantily clad women{/spoiler] for portraits
thanks I hate Baldur's Gate Tactics
Was looking at the prebuilt EE party and it's actually excellent.
>Berserker
>18/93 str 17 dex 18 con
Amazing kit, excellent stats. Can't dual to anything other than thief but w/e, still one of the best front liners you'll get.
>Ranger/Cleric
>16 str 18 dex 16 con
In original was completely broken since it has everything a fighter/cleric has but with racial enemy (skeletal undead, best pick), two weapon fighting and all druid spells. In EE they nerfed your druid spell progression a bit but you can undo that if you want in the config. Bit poor str roll but you have every cleric buff in the game to fix that, you'll be at 25 str by the late game easily.
>Undead Hunter
>18/58 str 16 dex 17 con
Game is literally crawling with undead and while there aren't many enemy casters probably 1/2 of them cast hold person so the immunity is nice. Definitely your best paladin kit pick and a Paladin ensures players will get to use the unique sword.
>Halfling Fighter/Thief
>14 str 19 dex 16 con
Best thief pick, Halfling gets the unique +3 AC helm. Strength is a shame but I guess one frontliner has to have suboptimal strength. Backstabs do get around the strength problem.
>Mage
>17 dex 14 con 18 int
Kind of the default for any party, sorcerer would be better but great stats and newbies probably couldn't handle picking just 5 spells per level. 2 con low but OK
>Bard
>18 dex 16 con 17 int
Good support. Skald is better imo, but then you miss out on the cool unique IWD songs and a normal bard can pickpocket the nice stuff in kuldahar
Whoever made this party clearly understood the IWD meta pretty well.
I just completed IWD and was thinking of buying and playing 2, are fighters as godlike in 2 as they are in 1?
They get the most feats out of all classes, plus always good to dip few leveps in for hp/wep proficiency
Fighters specifically only get +2 damage from weapon specialization over other classes. Martial classes in general are still excellent and very important to have since there is a lot of enemies to wade through, though casters are a bit better than they were in IWD1 imo.
They have cleave and power attack so yeah, they cut through homies like knife through butter.
Everyone can get those, also using power attack is usually detrimental.
I beat it when I was like 12 using a party of 6 fighters because I didn't understand how to use magic.
Are archer rangers bad in IWD2, I was thinking of having one in my party, but I saw someone say that they are shit, and that I'm better off multiclassic ranger/fighter
I know it's more of a Baldur's Gate question (due to xp limits costraints), but regarding dual-classing, when's the best level to switch?
Speaking about Thief to mage, Fighter to Druid, Fighter to Thief, and viceversa T to F
Depends on the game really because you generally want to switch around a time when the amount of XP you are getting drastically increases, or you're getting a lot of quest XP. In BG2 specifically you can abuse scribing scrolls if you switch to mage to get massive XP, and the same goes for disarming/unlocking things if you switch to thief.
Based on pure power breakpoints, fighter wants to dual at 7 (extra half APR), 9 (max HP), or 13 (extra half APR), but 13 requires a shit ton of time. Thief wants to dual when they hit some backstab multiplier breakpoint, or when they have acceptable thieving skills.
4 levels of fighter lets you get weapon specialization (3rd pip in the weapon) for +2 damage. Aside from that all fighter gets is more feats, and you run out of feats to take very quickly. After you have 4 levels of fighter there's not much reason to level fighter rather than any other class that gets full BAB progression.
That said I think bows aren't great in IWD2 since they don't get more attacks, don't get to add strength to their damage, and don't get other 3rd ed feats to boost them that normal archers would in 3rd ed, but I'm not 100% sure about this.
Played the EE some months ago. I had to grind 1000+ cold wights to defeat that marilith boss. Everything was straightforward after that (but not easy). Just grind more and dual class.
I remember owning a physical copy of the game called Icewind Dale II for computer when I was young. When I search for that game on Steam, I only see Icewind Dale (Enhanced Edition.) I assume that is only the first game. Does Icewind Dale II still exist?
you can purchase IWD2 on gog
for pretty cheap as well
from what I remember EE is nevar-evar ( not that it's a bad thing) since some original source files are lost
but while GOG version runs fine on modern systems you will need a wide-screen fan patch. google to the rescue
It's easy though, I can't believe how shit this board is at games.
If you don't realize how pathetic you look, I figure this is your crown (and only) achievement in life
It is actually pretty easy. A 6 monk party could destroy her.
You guys noobs? I soloed it with elf fighter/mage on my 1st run ever (blind)