Is this the "deepest" retro game? Even if it isn't, it's still a good contender.
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Is this the "deepest" retro game? Even if it isn't, it's still a good contender.
Is this the "deepest" retro game? Even if it isn't, it's still a good contender.
|
Shopping Cart Returner Shirt $21.68 |
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>god is bad
truly groundbreaking
How is it about god being bad?
muh gnosticism
deus = demiurge
>deus = demiurge
but isn't the """demiurge""" supposed to be fake God?
is just perpetuating a meme that all jprgs are about killing god
Contrarian opinions are disregarded, so don't waste your time.
Yes, and Wave Existence is Monad. Disregard the ebin memer, Tetsuya Takahashi did his research on Gnosticism, not so much on Kabbalah but it's the 90's.
What does deep even mean? In my opinion symbolism doesn't make things deep. Nothing against Xenogears though, it's a fricking classic.
I think a deep video game is something like Majora's Mask, because its mechanics fit the mood perfectly
Xenogears a shit?
Chrono Trigger a shit.
Elly a smelly
halo 2
Pepsiman
I don't know what deep means, still there's something I can never quite place from Illusion of Gaia. It's not a super complicated story, but there's so many little oddities I always end up thinking about, little weird scenes and tragedies and concepts.
I think Suikoden tends to have a lot of big questions about loyalty to a cause vs. loyalty to family. The idea of responsibility and obligation and how we are or are not bound by them. Stuff I find interesting.
Of course, Leisure Suit Larry is basically an entire series pondering the depths of human nature.
I think Suikoden 1 has arguably the most mature story of all the PS1 jrpg library. It's simple on the surface but the issues it touches are uncharacteristically serious of a kids/teens game. Almost no anime cliches too.
How's Suikoden 2 story? I know a guy who insists that it's the finest PS1 JRPG, Xenogears a close second, and he played through the lot of them.
Suikoden 2 has a great story as well, but I feel part 1's story is more focused. Suikoden 2 has more of the same type is story part 1 has, so it depends on you if you think it's a good thing or a bad thing. Personally I like part 1s brevity more.
Overrated shit #2
#1 is Chrono TriggerBlack person for those wondering
I'd say Planescape is
It's the deepest budget cut of any game I ever played.
>Disk 2 is literally storytime with the gang till the very end when you get the world map back but can't revisit the bulk of the cities cause everyone's dead.
>Is this the "deepest" retro game?
Pretty low bar IMO. Yeah, sure, it's deeper than most other games.
But Xenogears is not as deep as people think it is. The story uses cryptic presentation and a pretentious metaphor-heavy style to tell a story heavily laden with edgelord topics including a dystopian society, zombie apocalypse, and a protagonist with a hidden ragemode where he flips out and murders thousands of people. But it's still a story about giant fighting mechas. The narrative is brimming with lazy plotholes, pacing issues, and other absurdities even before you reach Disc 2.
But even looking past all that baloney there's still a lot of compelling conflicts, drama, and character development, and world-building. Maybe it's freshman luck due to naively ripping off all that Freudian shit, but the relationship between Fei and Elly really resonates. The conflicts and resolutions between them feel much more real and intense than most games.
Fei's personal character arc might be excessively edgy(was Id vs Entrenak necessary? No, but Cool Rules Xenogears in the end). But is still a compelling and well-executed story of how "Player Fei" grows and assumes dominance over the other aspects of his shattered psyche by accepting the truth about his past.
Takahashi and his wife are good writers
Sort of.
I'd say Xenogears has higher highs than most other games but it's also got an assload of problems. Frankly the first couple minutes of the game exemplify this. You have the dramatic Eldridge FMV, followed by a generic wall of text exposition dump on a black screen summarizing the history of the Aveh-Kislev war.
Is there something wrong with opening info dump? They could choose better wording to make things flow better and add some visuals. In fact, they could omit it in its entirety without anyone noticing but it sets the tone of the game pretty well.
Yeah like you say, it can be eliminated entirely with no great loss. But it was left in. Not a big deal it just points to the kind of inconsistent carelessness you can expect from the game.
>The narrative is brimming with lazy plotholes
give me an example and i'll explain how it's not a plot hole.
And don't get me wrong, most of the holes are fairly minor and easy to overlook. For example, it's implausibly easy for Elly to help Fei, Bart, and Margie escape from the Gebler base in Aveh. The problem here isn't really a major story structure issue ("Elly, as a member of the bad guy team, helps the party escape" is the plot point, it's just the implementation is sub-par). They aren't Last Jedi tier blunders. But let's not pretend it's consistently rock-solid writing.
literally me
>The story uses cryptic presentation and a pretentious metaphor-heavy style to tell a story heavily laden with edgelord topics
This is literally all Japanese seinen writing
And?
your moms pussy is the deepest retro game
Soul Reaver has great writing unironically but Planescape Torment is #1
Panzer Dragoon Saga completely rapes xenogears.
It's "deep" in the same way Eva is "deep" aka the writer just engrossed himself and his story in religious symbolism that impresses teenagers.
No this is wrong. And by wrong I mean half-true, but noticing it and pointing it out is done by morons who haven't actually done a real evaluation of the story. They think that just because teenagers are impressed by the hamfisted religious references and edginess, that there's nothing left after that.
First, I'll point out the issue is not just plot holes and I didn't say just plot holes. Plugging a plot hole by adding some new implausible connection, knowledge or ability to Citan is not necessarily much of an improvement. But here goes:
When fleeing Kislev, the party's plan to make their way back to Aveh involves fricking infiltrating a hidden military facility and stealing an entire goddamn flying fortress from Chrono Trigger. The only real reasons for this plan are (a) To have a gear level (b) to have the scene with Grahf.
Goliath gets shot down (by Bart, in a highly contrived coincidence we'll let slide because pottery and humor), and somehow everyone winds up way the frick on the opposite side of the planet in southwestern Aquvy. There's no explanation for this.
>When fleeing Kislev, the party's plan to make their way back to Aveh involves fricking infiltrating a hidden military facility and stealing an entire goddamn flying fortress from Chrono Trigger. The only real reasons for this plan are (a) To have a gear level (b) to have the scene with Grahf.
>Goliath gets shot down (by Bart, in a highly contrived coincidence we'll let slide because pottery and humor), and somehow everyone winds up way the frick on the opposite side of the planet in southwestern Aquvy. There's no explanation for this.
I get what you are saying about this. the game needed a reason to get you to the next area, and this is how it was done. is it the most realistic scenario? no, but it got the job done and most players didn't care how it was executed. i think this was a point where typical jrpg pacing needs trumped the lore.
>But let's not pretend it's consistently rock-solid writing.
and while i agree, it still thinks it's better than 99% of other jrpgs as far as consistency goes.
Xenogears is way better than that trash. Both were written by fans of Arthur Clarke but Xenogears isn’t just about depressed teenagers.
no, there tons of old military sims, and grand strategy games that are easily deeper than Xenogears. Now if we're not counting those obtuse old PC games I'd say that sure Xenogears is story heavy, but I wouldn't say it's the deepest game or even that deep. I think the most important thing it did was show JRPG/RPG fans that there could be more to a JRPG/RPG than they had experienced prior.
Xenogears a shit
Xenogears' THE shit
>game
This thing is a 26 episodes long anime show trying to pass as a game but failing horribly at it.
And that’s a good thing
Actual deepest game coming through. Jarpig gays btfo'd